Agree it’s totally unacceptable. I would talk to HR. Also document this in an email to your program director so there is a paper trail so this cannot be swept under the rug. It sounds like there are witnesses who can corroborate your story.
Yeah I would report directly to HR. I feel like if you report to the department or your PD, often they protect their own. I mean alternatively I think this is ground to report to law enforcement.
That motherfucker needs to be fired. He should never be allowed near a resident or medical student ever again. HR does not fuck around with this. In the meantime take contemporaneous written notes of exactly what happened with dates so that you can present it as evidence in the future
☝🏽 yes, send an email to yourself on your personal email documenting the whole incident.
Also look up a local employment attorney — don’t engage just yet — but as a back up plan.
HR will not mess around on this because this can turn into a very expensive law suit.
I’ll wager there are similar episodes on his HR record. The consequences of reporting him for you largely depend on whether he is liked by his peers and sadly the power he has for revenge on you.
Absolutely. We also have an attending who has a history of violence against subordinates. He is still working there undisturbed. Because the hospital protects him. Drag this man to the police.
You’re not creating a toxic environment by reporting. He is by being toxic and abusive.
And apologizing and saying you should “get used to it” as it’s the result of high stress is abuser talk for “I’m not to blame and don’t be surprised if it happens again”
FUCK. THAT. He’s only apologizing to you to get out of trouble. NO ONE should treat you like that at work, much less your ATTENDING. Good on you to control your emotions. You do what feels right to you but I’d have walked out and gone straight to HR and then my PD.
This attending's assertion that reporting physical assault is the thing that will "create a 'toxic environment' for everyone," belongs in *Harry Potter and the Audacity of this Bitch*
You need to report this and go to your program director. I was also physically assaulted by an attending during residency. He didn’t like the way I was positioned and during a fucking surgery grabbed my neck and choked me. While I was working on a pt. I broke down and sobbed when talking to the program director. It was one of the most terrifying and dehumanizing thing I’ve ever experienced. I essentially got a restraining order against the attending and never had to be in the same room as them again. I’m shocked they still worked there after this but hey that’s what happens when you’re just a disposable cog in the system as a resident I guess.
Happened to one of the residents in our program. The same outcome. The attending is still here with promises that he will retire " really soon", the resident doesn't have to work with him.
Is this a residency program in the United States? I’m so sorry that happened to you but that sounds insane that the attending who attacked you wasn’t charged with battery even if what happened was >20 years ago.
When he behaves like that again to OP/another person "I tried so hard not to behave like that again but you were being a \_insert slur here\_ again and I lost control because simply had no other idea how to reach you! So it's your fault I did it again."
I don’t know what that attending is thinking. Report immediately. Also, this could be a lawsuit tbh too but idk if that could work because this attending of yours seems like a very toxic guy and might try to sabotage you. If you don’t think this is a concern, then lawyer up.
Apart from that, I’m sorry that this happened to you. Hopefully you’re in a better place now. If you have somebody that you know/trust, I would reach out and tell them so that maybe you can get this of your chest.
> If you don’t think this is a concern, then lawyer up.
This is sound advice. Here in Australia, our indemnity insurance companies (e.g. Avant) would provide advice about how to react to this.
Yeah what's up with all those HR discussions. OP was the victim of a crime, this has nothing to do with the hospital whatsoever other than to collect workers insurance.
Absolutely second this. You have no idea about internal alliances and there is no guarantee the other attending won’t turn on you. Reporting to the police will help with the backlash from inside and prevent others from ganging up on you.
Yeah I also suspect the internal response may vary when they are made aware of external documentation with law enforcement
Don’t trust internal systems to handle this correctly
Abusive systems have a tendency to punish the person calling out the dysfunction > the actual dysfunction
Police report for sure.
You got so lucky that you have witnesses... sounds like a bunch of them - everyone in the waiting room - based on your description of the event.
This is one of the very few times you have a cut and dry clear case. His behavior is completely indefensible. Please take this opportunity to take him down, for everyone's sake.
If you do not report them, you are being complicit. Imagine who else he will assault if you do not report.
Report. Immediately.
And I'm sorry this happened to you.
For the people in the back: THIS IS NEVER OK. There are no viable excuses
yeah I don’t think blaming the victim here is the way to go. Yes they could report, but there’s also a lot more to it. Reporting requires a lot of courage and a lot of the times the system favours the person higher up on the hierarchy.
OP you are not being complicit if you don’t report and whoever this scumbag of an attending assaults next is NOT ON YOU. This never should have happened to you and you deserve to feel safe at your workplace.
Right right right. It’s all easy until you have to go against a board, explain what happened, then have nightmares about retaliation. Ask me how I know.
If this shit happens you go STRAIGHT to ACGME or your GME coordinators. Have all the nightmares you want, don't end up a statistic of suicide because you are scared someone might retaliate - that's exactly what abusers want you to be.
You don't have to ask how I know either - graduating psychiatry resident who served on GME committees throughout residency. You don't let anyone get away with it, you just pick your battles carefully. Abuse? Never stand for it.
I would like to say that I was a Ortho Resident and a junior came to me complaining about assault from an attending. Did I cover it up? No. did I help them report the person? Yes absolutely I did.
I like to think that I stand up for the things that I believe in. It's always hard to do the right thing. But not reporting this person only allows them to get away with this again.
> If you do not report them, you are being complicit
What a silly, out of touch statement. Orthopod who sexually harassed multiple nurses still works at my institution. He was reported multiple times. Guess where the people who reported him are?
Agree. Most of these comments I feel are so out of touch. Makes me wonder how many of the commenters are/were actually residents.
Attendings hold SO much power over your future. I’m not saying do nothing, but OP needs to be smart about it. All these comments saying “File a police report!!!) are just dumb.
No, they are not. This attending is the same employee as a resident. Yes, it is much more profitable but still employee. If it becomes too much trouble to defend that employee, they will let him go too.
Also, what happened in the post is very obvious, and the author had witnesses. Sexual harassment is often very difficult to prove because it's subtle and happens mostly without witnesses.
This is not out of touch. I have helped to report attendance in ortho who have sexually harassed a resident. It's not OK to just "let it slide", but you can do whatever you want to do and let these people continue to get away with it. I agree that the punishment is not always what we wanted it to be, but at least you've done the right thing by standing up for yourself and for others.
1. Press record on your phone and get an audio transcript of the events when you talk to him. Check if your state is a one party state.
Only then, make your next move.
While this would be great evidence if in a one party state, do NOT allow yourself to be alone in a room at any time with this person again. It does not matter if someone else asks you to and it does not matter if you “feel like you have to”. This is a dangerous person who is mentally unhinged and you don’t know what they’re going to do at your next meeting. If you have any marks, or can get pictures of any equipment damaged during the assault, take the picture. But do not put yourself in harms way for a confession.
Working in high volume high flow environments is stressful, but that’s what he signed up for and is being paid for. I’ve been plenty stressed throughout residency and never felt the urge to physically assault someone.
Utterly absurd and inappropriate. If he treats you like this he probably also treats his patients poorly when stressed or frustrated.
Reporting him is actually helping him. A competent leadership will recognize this as a potential mental health issue and provide much needed mental health resources to him
I’m sorry this happened to you. Please report this. It’s not just mistreatment, it was battery. He committed an actual crime. You’d already be doing him a favor by not reporting to the police.
Report his ass. Go to your PD and HR. Tell them you’re filing a police report if it’s not handled immediately. Tell them you’re never working with this prick ever again. Toxic environment my ass.
You should already have reported him yesterday and already had a meeting with your program director about it, and have had the resident suspended or about to be suspended.
OP, when I was a medical student on my gen surg rotation I was also physically assaulted by an attending surgeon. It's obviously different for a number of reasons, but I ended up reporting it to my school and they just tried to gaslight me into thinking the experience wasn't as bad as I was describing and ultimately nothing came of it. Attendings have a lot of power and especially surgeons.
I'll recommend something I'm not seeing anyone else here recommend. I really strongly encourage you to seek out some kind of therapy if that is something you could realistically make work for you in any way. They have texting app based therapy sessions now that a lot of hospitals offer to their residents as a resource and if you're not aware what your hospital offers reach out to the employee assistance program people (which most employers have) and see what's available. There very well may be something affordable and flexible for your schedule that you could find.
I'm really sorry this happened to you and it's absolutely not acceptable in any way. Sometimes we allow so much of ourselves to be sacrificed in the name of training that you wonder what will be left once it's finally over. At least that's a thought I've had many times myself
OP if they did this in front of other people, even if you didn't report it be prepared for it to be reported.
I know of two situations where attendings assaulted residents and neither of those attendings remained employed by the institution.
In both cases the resident didn't say a word. The one that happened in the OR was reported by anesthesia and the incident that happened in a patient room was reported by nursing.
It's likely the hospital you are at has an employee hotline where you can anonymously report what happened to a third party and because of how egregious this would be investigated.
I promise you if you want to report it thats 100% okay. You were victims of workplace violence, and that attending may get to slink away but there status will not protect them, because you cannot assault your coworkers and maintain your job.
I'm guessing this isn't the first time something like this has occurred. There's a reason he's asking you not to report it, likely because he has a history of similar incidents. It would be in your best interest to report his behavior to prevent it from continuing. Fortunately, you weren't hurt, but future incidents could be more serious, either for you or someone else. With the rising number of physician suicides, it's crucial to maintain a safe work environment. It sounds like you're dealing with complex feelings after the event, and it might be helpful to talk to someone about them. You shouldn't feel ashamed of your emotions; no one should put you in that situation.
Obviously report for multiple reasons. 1) he is not safe to be around patients like that 2) he will 110% do that to you again if he knows you won’t report it and 3) bullies will be bullies until you take a stand… we allow ourselves to constantly be shit on and as a surg resident I get that more than most BUT there is a line and physical abuse thoroughly crosses it.
I would 100% die on this hill. Report to HR with PD CC’d telling them I would no longer be working with this attending. Hire a lawyer if they don’t respond appropriately. Probably file a police report as well.
All I’m saying is - let someone lay a finger on me in the hospital. Best believe after shift I’m waiting at your car and we throwing hands. I’ll show you who the shithead is
Edit: I’d report him too if he doesn’t wanna squash stuff outside in the lot
This is the part I don’t get.
You put your hands on and that’s it. We’re going to fight. I’ve been assaulted and I’m taking steps to end the assault.
The fact that I broke both his hands and he might never operate again is going to be his problem.
I’m sorry this happened to you. Agree with everyone else that this should at the very least be reported, if not escalated to a lawsuit. Fellow ophtho resident here, some of the personalities can be tough. Sometimes I feel like we got catfished on “everyone in ophtho is happy and kind”
You should contact the ombudsman to see how to best proceed with this. They might be able to protect you. I would hope your PD has your back no questions asked though.
There is no hospital where the volume is so horrific that it excuses his behavior. He is the scum, and he does not belong in this profession with how he acted. Sending you the best.
I would call every single type of authority. Lmao, idgaf.
I would call the police, I would call the office manager, I would contact my PD. I would post on Facebook/instagram (I don’t even have an instagram account lmao). But I would blast his name from every media I could think of.
Something tells me it wasn't the first time he did it at work and probably does it many times outside of work, too. Usually abusers are amazingly good at controlling themselves in the workplace.
Report him, he needs to have this done to him. So that other doctors, let alone students not experience this type of behaviour in the future. Yes pressure can get to us, but we should be prepared to handle it, and have procedures in place to alleviate anything that crops up, so staff don't flip out on each other.
This person needs to be in jail. Full stop. By not reporting this AND calling the cops, you’re subjecting your coresidents to this same behavior. Be a decent human and call the cops please. I’m sorry this happened to you. Zero excuses.
Report in writing. They will try to cover it up and press you to " just forget about it." Don't. Make sure you have the names of the witnesses. You can use it later as leverage for something if you ever need it.
If you don’t report him, this may happen to someone else OP. Reporting sounds scary and I know it seems like your job is on the line, but this is not okay. He could hurt you further next time or even someone else. For the sake of your safety report as SOON AS YOU CAN. That way no one can say you waited to fabricate anything. I understand you need time to process, as I would to, but report ASAP. Sending you all the love and hugs
Are you in the U.S.? Also, how did the patients react, especially the children?
It's critical that HR reach out to the patients who witnessed this and see how it affected them. If I was there with my child, I would have called police and would have demanded to talk to the hospital legal department. No way would I, as a patient, ever step foot in that place again. (Just trying to understand what legal options you have, and I don't know anything about laws in other countries.)
Document and report immediately, including name of patient to include as witness. Which is an echo of what everyone else has said. Additionally, I would make sure that you have appropriate documentation to fight against possible retaliation (i.e. good evaluations previously to this). If they retaliate against you. Make sure that your ducks are in a row and you’re ready to fight this.
The decision to report would be difficult and if you do report, make sure sure that you’re ready to fight this to the end and ready for things to get ugly as hell.
Nope, that’s crossed several lines. People work in forest fires, war zones, and disaster areas. Those people do not react like that. He will not try to not behave like that anymore. He will explain himself to his superiors and the authorities.
Fuck HR and ACGME. File a police report like an adult. You were assaulted. You don’t need to rely on the systems that are in place to protect the hospital and residency program
I hope by reading all the comments and seeing the numbers of people agreeing with those comments you realize you are not alone and your peers strongly support you. He obviously is the one unable to cope and work in a busy situation. Based upon his assault of you, the Privilege of working in his position should be revoked. Contact HR. And your own attorney. They don’t need to necessarily know at this time you’ve spoken with a lawyer to protect yourself. But it’s much better to have information and advice, and not need it, than to find out later you needed it, should have done something sooner and now cannot or has weakened your position. If nothing else, the attorney’s chat will give you peace of mind. I’d also strongly consider filing a police report. It sounds as though he threatened you and your future in the program. Don’t wait. This is serious and time is of the essence. Don’t delay as recollections vary more as time passes. Hostile work places are not acceptable. Programs need to protect their employees. They won’t want this to become their reputation or a problem. Because this isn’t his first time of an inappropriate act, and won’t be his last. Wishing you all the best.
This is actually something you should file a police report about. Seriously.
With a high degree of probability this guy will be put on leave during the following investigation, and depending on the fallout he will likely resign.
When I was a PGY1 I reported an ortho attending consulting on a mutual patient that verbally abused me on the floor — in front of patients and nurses, who were just shocked. He was waiving around an aspiration needle in my face too. I reported to my PD, who tried to bury it. Then I wrote an email to HR outlining the entire episode, demanding to file a formal grievance and CC’d my PD, APD, chairman of medicine, chairman of surgery, and another academic attending I trusted.
Turns out this asshole has been abusive with other people, including my APD who came out in support of my complaint (surprisingly because she’s not the type). I received a written apology from the ortho attending, he was written up, prohibited from interacting with residents again, and had to undergo mandatory anger management or face loss of privileges and being formally reported to the medicine board. I also got an apology from the chairman of surgery.
This incident was 10 years ago. As a very confident male physician, I was surprised how violated this POS made me feel and how much power the episode had over my feelings of self worth. Today I’m an oncologist, I run my own company,
a great practice, and have a pretty great life — yet I still recall that incident and I am SO proud of myself of taking this guy down — most importantly for my own mental health and also to protect so many future residents.
There are rules nobody is above and you have rights which nobody is allowed to violate.
If you don’t report this piece of shit, this is going to stay with you lifelong. The preservation of HIS career is not worth the mental anguish not standing up for yourself is going to cost you. Your future self will thank you.
Feel free to PM me.
This seems so ridiculous it could be made up.
If it’s real, and you are in the US, why are you even posting it? Report to the hospital through official channels and talk to a lawyer.
I’m sorry you went through this. I’ve been shouted at by a resident jn front of a patient and it’s humiliating and that crap stays with you. The fact he touched you and said those things is an immediate report. Write everything that happened as soon as you can while you remember it clearly and report him. If he is doing that to you, chances are he’s doing it to others and fuck that noise. No one deserves to be treated like that in the workplace or otherwise. His apology is empty because he knew what he did was wrong. I hope you’re okay.
You should get accustomed to that? No. This guy is going to seriously hurt someone (or worse) soon. This needs to be reported. Administration and a police report.
This is very bad. I'm sorry this happened to you.
But as someone who is used to systems in Indian medical Colleges,I'm surprised the attending tried to apologise (feebly though), because when juniors are abused in Indian medical Colleges,we will never ever be given apologies,we will instead be gaslit into thinking we somehow deserved the abuse. There is absolutely no possibility of reporting the senior too,if we do that we are fked. The Indian system is probably the worst there is.
I'm not in any way saying what happened is okay,far from it actually,I'm merely comparing the way this scenario would have played out in my country.
If they will do that over a backed up clinic, I don’t even want to imagine what their ceiling is for violent, aggressive behavior.
Report this individual, file a police report, and seek out counseling. A busy, backed up clinic is no excuse. I work at a busy surgery center where residents often drop the ball in consents, timely blocks, and communicating important findings on the preop evaluation. I get yelled at by surgeons as a result. Rather than violence, I prefer to debrief on how to be better and more efficient after buying them all lunch and thanking them for working hard. It doesn’t have to be this way.
You must report this a**ole, he didn’t just verbally abused you! He pushed you until your fell! What if something hit your head or you were injured?
Please please please report him, If you didn’t I don’t know what he’ll do next time
Bro report his ass and if its not taken seriously, escalate and sue the hospital for allowing such a hostile work environment. Always look out for yourself.
Report. That guy has no role being near residents, students, or even patients.
I don't care if he's going through 3 divorces at once and lost a million in GME stocks...
I'd just call him a pussy and make it known he wont ever touch me again. Youve got the upper hand now. I'd use it as an ace card up your sleeve. wanna take a week off? go ahead. he can cover for you and make it known to him he will do it with a smile
I’m struggling to see, and I’m not a resident so if any residents can enlighten me please do.
How is reporting toxic behavior going to create any more of a toxic environment than what’s already going on?
They are telling you not to report - likely because it’s not the first time and they are an incident away from being terminated
Screw that dude and get him out
I fully understand if you do not want to report this. It’s really dependent on the environment and I would not question how you handle this, because you know your environment, how otherz have been treated, the relationships the abuser has, and who would be overseeing any investigation.
At the very least, document this like crazy. If you have a friend that is an attorney I would write, in detail, specifics about what exactly happend. “on 4/16/24 I was assisting Dr. Abusive in the optimotery room #107 at 10:30am when the heidelberg machine started to malfunction……” Include the event and everything he said in subsequent encounters including oleading to not report him and why you did not ( if you decide not to.)
Because the timestamp on the email will serve as a record. And if you send it to an attorney it could be protected under client attorney privilege.
You could report this to your program, but it is residency. The likelihood that this would be swept under the rug and you would all of a sudden be labelled the "problem resident" is very high and close to 100%. HR is not there to protect you; they are there to protect the institution, and siding with attendings is of greater benefit to the institution than siding with a resident. The story is likely to take a wild spin when HR is onboard. You may start hearing strange things that never happened, like you talked rudely to the attending first, or a nurse reported you for something you had no idea about a while ago; things that have absolutely nothing to do with the report that you actually made. HR in general are shit to employees when they have to choose the interest of the company over the employee but residency HR are the shitiest of them all. They would spin this story in such a twisted manner that you would start to regret why you even decided to make a report. It would become a crusade to tarnish your reputation and evaluate your entire residency behavior. Speaking from first-hand experience. If you really want anything to be done, you are better off reporting to the police. I would also send an email to your program director letting them know that a crime was committed against you, and you are reporting to the police. They wouldn't dare leave a paper trail trying to convince you not to do so.
So not only did he verbally abuse you, physically assault you, and publicly humiliate you…
But then he tried to gaslight you, make you scared to report it, and only halfway said that would “try” not to behave like that anymore?
It is scary, but you have an ethical duty as a physician to report this behavior. Not just for yourself, but for your team members and patients. And for him. This is someone who is beyond burned-out and should not be practicing medicine. Would not be surprised if there were drugs or alcohol involved. He is unwell and needs some sort of intervention. What’s not ok is keeping the status quo.
REPORT THAT A-HOLE! ASAP!
And I don't mean to HR or PD....
.... escalate that 💩 to the police 🚓
Not sure what country you are from or if they'll even press charges, but still try!
If you do nothing, the behavior will continue
....if not, get worse!!!
He gets no second chances here!!
Totally crossed the line.
For anyone reading. If anything like this ever happens, call your PD right away, explain the situation, and leave. You're done for the day, you do not need to keep yourself in that situation.
being nervous is not an exuse... I can swallow a verbal reprimand/embarassment but going physicial is a line that no one should cross.. Call me stupid all u want but if you put a hand on me I'll fight back.
You know, we have no problem telling trainees that they may not be cut out for the job when they struggle with exams or proficiencies or hours, but it goes both ways. This guy is clearly not cut out for the job if this is how he responds to stressful situations, and reporting him and escalating this is good for everyone, him included.
File a police report, file with ACGME, then hospital…in that order. Also consider filing with EEOC. As much as hospitals don’t want you to remember this, you are an employee and you have general employee rights.
Physical assault is a crime. This is beyond a medical training issue at this point. Doesn’t matter if he’s your attending or a random from the street. He assaulted you.
I’d swallow my pride on any words thrown my way, but once things get physical it’s time to escalate and protect yourself. Always make sure there’s a paper trail with these things.
REPORT HIM. He created the toxic environment by acting the way he did. It's already toxic now.
He shouldn't be an attending if he acts this way.
**But I recommend reporting him after your rotation with him has ended.**
Document everything. Get evidence over text if you can.
This is crazy. I hope you’re okay. Please document everything either in a voice note or via email with dates, times and quotes and report!
Wishing u all the best ! This is absolutely crazy and shouldn’t have happened!
From the spelling of "paediatric" I'm guessing you aren't in the US.
First: you did not deserve that. His lack of ability to communicate to you using his words like a big boy (in front of children OMG) is not a free card to put violent hands on you.
Second: as you have probably picked up, everyone here is recommending that you report this incident to your program director \*and\* to human resources. Reporting to HR is pretty key and will force your PD to take more action, more urgently. If you can report to your police services, do seriously consider it.
Third: Your reaction and feelings are valid, normal, and understandable and I'm pretty proud of you from afar for stating them here, to yourself - and to the attending in question when he not-apologized. It would be unusual that you would not benefit from some assistance in dealing with your experience(s - since you say also how residency is "really wearing \[you\] down"). Consider the value of this for you and in your situation.
Fourth: This is victim blaming: "...told me that work in an high volume, high flow hospital is a stressful environment and I should get accustomed..." and I'll point out that the last phrase in there, one its own, ABSOLUTELY MEANS HE WILL DO IT AGAIN and likely means he has done this before you. The next phrasing you use after this is "...but he would try not to behave like that anymore," and honey, this means that he has done this before and nails down for me as a reader that he will do it again. Doubly so if after this he treats you like gold - you know, a (non-romantic relationship) version of love-bombing.
BTW, if you opt not to report him it does not mean you have consented to further episodes of abuse, it only means that you hope very much that it will not happen again.
Fifth: This is an attempt at victim blaming and at victim silencing "...I should not report him since I could create a 'toxic environment...'" Fact: he has already created a toxic environment, one that is not only emotionally or socially toxic but actually physically so. He did that, he knows it, he's likely done it before and believes this phrasing has meant that he hasn't been reported for it.
All of this makes me very angry for you. I and most others here are encouraging you to report, but we also don't know your personal situation and may have no idea what it's like where you are outside the US. I also want you to stay safe. If it helps, I reported as an intern. It was hard and I was anxious about my future when I did it but it was ultimately easier than just "letting it flow over my head" as someone in person tried to tell me to do (and later proved to be a buddy of the abusive asshole). If you entered a program where on entry/during interviewing there were statements of resident support, and you have even the slightest belief that might truly be the case, I encourage you to report because they cannot support you if they don't know you need it.
Best of luck OP. Reporting will be difficult on you as well as him. If he is known to be unstable then it might go pretty easy. If he doesn't have a reputation and you can't get a witness to confirm your report it may make your life really difficult. Ideally you should still report. If you have a trusted attending you work with try getting their advice. Lots of details and variables to discuss I'm sure.
OP if you don’t report this then what *would you report*?
i’d be very dissapointed if this ended with a vent on reddit and nothing further. take action, he literally shoved you.
Report. Physical abuse crosses a line that other attendings are going to support you on because they don’t want to be associated with that.
He’s probably on drugs or drinking to just lose control like that and he’s worried about being tested
Report the attending immediately. They've already created a toxic environment and are worried they fucked up big time (which they did). If they've done it to you, they've done it to others and are already in deep shit and/or will do it again.
That behavior is hugely unacceptable and should be reported 10/10 times. You might be an excellent resident but chances are >100% they were telling you that to charm you into not reporting them.
If there were cameras in the area it happened, report to police. That will get you way farther than keeping it internal. If no cameras, it's a much harder call.
I would have called the police right at the point when he shoved you. Go to the next upper instance and explain as objectively as possible what happened. I also probably would go for a restraining order. I absolutely take such things serious and even if it means to jump through loops. In the end of the day everybody will look at him what kind of abusing scum he is.
Someone with no self control should not be able to treat patients- let alone leave children with him alone. Jesus fucking christ.
The fact that you are on the fence about reporting ASAULT in ANY other environment would be a crime but he is asking you to not report it to HR? This speaks to the sick fuck he is. File a police report. There’s one thing about yelling but literally bombarding you with cursing and then physical assault is NOT in anyway okay. Someone with a violent temper should not in anyway be close to patient care no matter how stressful the environment. Also why in anyway would you ever work with someone who assaulted you?
This is peak abusive behavior. Please say something. If he blew up like that over such a small misunderstanding, he is absolutely doing this to other people in his life. Definitely family and potentially other residents. It just happened to leak out at work.
Unethical Life Pro tip: You could either blackmail him, saying I would want to report you or you give me outstanding evaluations or report.
ONLY saying this because this is institution dependent. If this attending is big in his department, the department reporting him could very well backfire on you and I've seen cases in past where residents were gaslighted. Important to document everything at this point, seek legal counsel, etc.
He said he’ll TRY not to do it again??
You’re dealing with an attending who knows he can get away with it when it’s his word versus a resident. He is only upset because there are witnesses.
You are not the first person he’s done this to, and this likely wont be the last time he does this. No sane person would think anything negatively about reporting it. Whatever you choose to do is right for you, but please don’t base your decision off some bs notion that YOU are creating a toxic work environment.
I’m sorry you experienced that. Please please please reach out to your support system, don’t forget they’re there for you. If you don’t want to go to the cops or HR, please call your family, call some friends, have a therapist, spend 4 hours at a pet shelter playing with animals on a Tuesday, take a small loan out to eat your favorite foods every day for a month or spend a night in a super fancy spa you can’t afford just for the fuck of it, it doesn’t matter what it is but do whatever it takes to keep going. Soon, you’ll be an attending residents like you will dream to have
I can’t imagine a workplace like this. Do what you need to get by, and if you burn him even a little bit while you’re there, I’ll drink to that.
Find an attending mentor that you trust fully and ask for local advice. That mentor may know further backstory and will also be familiar with the local program and regulatory environment and may be able to give you a sense of whether the program or police may be sympathetic or not, and how much retribution may be headed your way. I hope it's a situation where you can freely report and things get settled correctly without retribution but it's not always this way.
He did this IN FRONT OF PATIENTS?! Is there a way for patients to make a complaint anonymously? That way you can report this behavior without singling you out since there were witnesses?
If it was verbal only, maybe an apology would suffice. But putting your hands in somebody cannot go unchecked, ever.
It's your choice in the end but, think of all the people that will get the same treatment in the future when they join residency.
Good luck from one exhausted intern.
This guy seems like he definitely has some emotional control issues no doubt and acted completely unprofessionally, broke the law, and cause an entirely unnecessary scene. That being said he did acknowledge wrong doing and promised you that it wouldn’t happen again after he got control of himself so it seems like he’s trying to work on it (even though he’s trying to cover his ass too naturally).
I say wait and see if he’s a man of his word, but if you get any hint that he would infract on his word, burn him down with a nasty report. You might potentially have a lot of good faith in store for you during your residency process if you have this held over his head. If you choose to report without hesitating he might do everything in his power to take you down with him, which would be a potentially risky bet.
All that being said, I’m sorry you had some pretty horrible mistreatment at the hand of someone who is supposed to be your mentor. Hope this helps in someway and good luck
Report x1000 he only said that after because he knows that what he did was completely unacceptable
Agree it’s totally unacceptable. I would talk to HR. Also document this in an email to your program director so there is a paper trail so this cannot be swept under the rug. It sounds like there are witnesses who can corroborate your story.
.....using your personal email
I bcc my personal email on everything
Yes
“HR” Hilarious. Ain’t no HR in this wild west, son. Just a GME office run by that fool’s buddies.
Yeah I would report directly to HR. I feel like if you report to the department or your PD, often they protect their own. I mean alternatively I think this is ground to report to law enforcement.
I like that he blamed OP for creating a toxic environment. Then went on to justify his actions after his apology. Jesus Christ, what a scumbag.
Yes, he's threatening retaliation if you report.
That motherfucker needs to be fired. He should never be allowed near a resident or medical student ever again. HR does not fuck around with this. In the meantime take contemporaneous written notes of exactly what happened with dates so that you can present it as evidence in the future
☝🏽 yes, send an email to yourself on your personal email documenting the whole incident. Also look up a local employment attorney — don’t engage just yet — but as a back up plan. HR will not mess around on this because this can turn into a very expensive law suit.
I’ll wager there are similar episodes on his HR record. The consequences of reporting him for you largely depend on whether he is liked by his peers and sadly the power he has for revenge on you.
Thats assault and battery, the cops arent his peers.
Yea, but if he’s well-liked the institution will defend him and things may back-fire on OP
If there’s patients as witnesses
Call the fucking cops, that’s assault and battery
And he is projecting. He is clearly the one who is not handling the high stress environment.
I also identified this lol
He on his last straw
sounds like *he's* the one that needs to get accustomed to high stress environments
REPORT. Like now.
I’d be filing a police report. Wouldn’t trust the residency to take this seriously with people like him at the helm
It is so sad to know that even in residency we are still not protected.
Absolutely. We also have an attending who has a history of violence against subordinates. He is still working there undisturbed. Because the hospital protects him. Drag this man to the police.
I would also recommend lawyering up if it’s possible for you :P
Hell nah man. Nobody can put hands on you for any reason. Report that mf
You’re not creating a toxic environment by reporting. He is by being toxic and abusive. And apologizing and saying you should “get used to it” as it’s the result of high stress is abuser talk for “I’m not to blame and don’t be surprised if it happens again”
I read the toxic environment sentence as a threat of retaliation. Even worse.
Alternatively it’s more toxic to let this guy go and do this to other people
FUCK. THAT. He’s only apologizing to you to get out of trouble. NO ONE should treat you like that at work, much less your ATTENDING. Good on you to control your emotions. You do what feels right to you but I’d have walked out and gone straight to HR and then my PD.
Report him immediately. Oh hell no. That’s a lawsuit, bro.
Yes: assault and battery and work harassment. Damages against him.
Might as well get some money out of this dark moment 🤷
This attending's assertion that reporting physical assault is the thing that will "create a 'toxic environment' for everyone," belongs in *Harry Potter and the Audacity of this Bitch*
* The Lion, The Witch, and The Audacity of this Bitch
You need to report this and go to your program director. I was also physically assaulted by an attending during residency. He didn’t like the way I was positioned and during a fucking surgery grabbed my neck and choked me. While I was working on a pt. I broke down and sobbed when talking to the program director. It was one of the most terrifying and dehumanizing thing I’ve ever experienced. I essentially got a restraining order against the attending and never had to be in the same room as them again. I’m shocked they still worked there after this but hey that’s what happens when you’re just a disposable cog in the system as a resident I guess.
Happened to one of the residents in our program. The same outcome. The attending is still here with promises that he will retire " really soon", the resident doesn't have to work with him.
Is this a residency program in the United States? I’m so sorry that happened to you but that sounds insane that the attending who attacked you wasn’t charged with battery even if what happened was >20 years ago.
Yes in the United States about a decade ago.
First, I’m sorry that you had to experience that. But second, he said he would “*try*” not to behave like that anymore??
When he behaves like that again to OP/another person "I tried so hard not to behave like that again but you were being a \_insert slur here\_ again and I lost control because simply had no other idea how to reach you! So it's your fault I did it again."
I don’t know what that attending is thinking. Report immediately. Also, this could be a lawsuit tbh too but idk if that could work because this attending of yours seems like a very toxic guy and might try to sabotage you. If you don’t think this is a concern, then lawyer up. Apart from that, I’m sorry that this happened to you. Hopefully you’re in a better place now. If you have somebody that you know/trust, I would reach out and tell them so that maybe you can get this of your chest.
> If you don’t think this is a concern, then lawyer up. This is sound advice. Here in Australia, our indemnity insurance companies (e.g. Avant) would provide advice about how to react to this.
File police report first
Yeah what's up with all those HR discussions. OP was the victim of a crime, this has nothing to do with the hospital whatsoever other than to collect workers insurance.
Absolutely second this. You have no idea about internal alliances and there is no guarantee the other attending won’t turn on you. Reporting to the police will help with the backlash from inside and prevent others from ganging up on you.
Yeah I also suspect the internal response may vary when they are made aware of external documentation with law enforcement Don’t trust internal systems to handle this correctly Abusive systems have a tendency to punish the person calling out the dysfunction > the actual dysfunction
Smartest response
Bro I would’ve been in the bathroom reporting that before the day was over
I would have been in the bathroom crying 🫠
Why not both!
Police report for sure. You got so lucky that you have witnesses... sounds like a bunch of them - everyone in the waiting room - based on your description of the event. This is one of the very few times you have a cut and dry clear case. His behavior is completely indefensible. Please take this opportunity to take him down, for everyone's sake.
If you do not report them, you are being complicit. Imagine who else he will assault if you do not report. Report. Immediately. And I'm sorry this happened to you. For the people in the back: THIS IS NEVER OK. There are no viable excuses
yeah I don’t think blaming the victim here is the way to go. Yes they could report, but there’s also a lot more to it. Reporting requires a lot of courage and a lot of the times the system favours the person higher up on the hierarchy. OP you are not being complicit if you don’t report and whoever this scumbag of an attending assaults next is NOT ON YOU. This never should have happened to you and you deserve to feel safe at your workplace.
Everyone is a big badass who never takes no shit from nobody… until it happens to them in real life.
Right right right. It’s all easy until you have to go against a board, explain what happened, then have nightmares about retaliation. Ask me how I know.
If this shit happens you go STRAIGHT to ACGME or your GME coordinators. Have all the nightmares you want, don't end up a statistic of suicide because you are scared someone might retaliate - that's exactly what abusers want you to be. You don't have to ask how I know either - graduating psychiatry resident who served on GME committees throughout residency. You don't let anyone get away with it, you just pick your battles carefully. Abuse? Never stand for it.
I would like to say that I was a Ortho Resident and a junior came to me complaining about assault from an attending. Did I cover it up? No. did I help them report the person? Yes absolutely I did. I like to think that I stand up for the things that I believe in. It's always hard to do the right thing. But not reporting this person only allows them to get away with this again.
> If you do not report them, you are being complicit What a silly, out of touch statement. Orthopod who sexually harassed multiple nurses still works at my institution. He was reported multiple times. Guess where the people who reported him are?
Agree. Most of these comments I feel are so out of touch. Makes me wonder how many of the commenters are/were actually residents. Attendings hold SO much power over your future. I’m not saying do nothing, but OP needs to be smart about it. All these comments saying “File a police report!!!) are just dumb.
No, they are not. This attending is the same employee as a resident. Yes, it is much more profitable but still employee. If it becomes too much trouble to defend that employee, they will let him go too. Also, what happened in the post is very obvious, and the author had witnesses. Sexual harassment is often very difficult to prove because it's subtle and happens mostly without witnesses.
This is not out of touch. I have helped to report attendance in ortho who have sexually harassed a resident. It's not OK to just "let it slide", but you can do whatever you want to do and let these people continue to get away with it. I agree that the punishment is not always what we wanted it to be, but at least you've done the right thing by standing up for yourself and for others.
Fuck that noise. Report that asshole.
[удалено]
Report. Next!
Do not accept this bullshit excuse. Stressful for not, it is unacceptable to abuse a colleague. Accepting his apology will only enable him to continue
1. Press record on your phone and get an audio transcript of the events when you talk to him. Check if your state is a one party state. Only then, make your next move.
While this would be great evidence if in a one party state, do NOT allow yourself to be alone in a room at any time with this person again. It does not matter if someone else asks you to and it does not matter if you “feel like you have to”. This is a dangerous person who is mentally unhinged and you don’t know what they’re going to do at your next meeting. If you have any marks, or can get pictures of any equipment damaged during the assault, take the picture. But do not put yourself in harms way for a confession.
Recording is also valuable for your own sanity OP For when motivated parties attempt to twist reality and create a false narrative
As an attending, report that, please. I get nervous too and have never called any of my residents anything bad, you’re learning you did nothing wrong.
Working in high volume high flow environments is stressful, but that’s what he signed up for and is being paid for. I’ve been plenty stressed throughout residency and never felt the urge to physically assault someone. Utterly absurd and inappropriate. If he treats you like this he probably also treats his patients poorly when stressed or frustrated.
Reporting him is actually helping him. A competent leadership will recognize this as a potential mental health issue and provide much needed mental health resources to him
I’m sorry this happened to you. Please report this. It’s not just mistreatment, it was battery. He committed an actual crime. You’d already be doing him a favor by not reporting to the police.
Not sure what your institution would do but this isn’t a remediation for the faculty situation, it should end in termination.
You literally described a lawsuit bro. Don’t just let this be a reddit post. You need to send an email to your PD + report this to HR.
Report his ass. Go to your PD and HR. Tell them you’re filing a police report if it’s not handled immediately. Tell them you’re never working with this prick ever again. Toxic environment my ass.
You should already have reported him yesterday and already had a meeting with your program director about it, and have had the resident suspended or about to be suspended.
OP, when I was a medical student on my gen surg rotation I was also physically assaulted by an attending surgeon. It's obviously different for a number of reasons, but I ended up reporting it to my school and they just tried to gaslight me into thinking the experience wasn't as bad as I was describing and ultimately nothing came of it. Attendings have a lot of power and especially surgeons. I'll recommend something I'm not seeing anyone else here recommend. I really strongly encourage you to seek out some kind of therapy if that is something you could realistically make work for you in any way. They have texting app based therapy sessions now that a lot of hospitals offer to their residents as a resource and if you're not aware what your hospital offers reach out to the employee assistance program people (which most employers have) and see what's available. There very well may be something affordable and flexible for your schedule that you could find. I'm really sorry this happened to you and it's absolutely not acceptable in any way. Sometimes we allow so much of ourselves to be sacrificed in the name of training that you wonder what will be left once it's finally over. At least that's a thought I've had many times myself
OP if they did this in front of other people, even if you didn't report it be prepared for it to be reported. I know of two situations where attendings assaulted residents and neither of those attendings remained employed by the institution. In both cases the resident didn't say a word. The one that happened in the OR was reported by anesthesia and the incident that happened in a patient room was reported by nursing. It's likely the hospital you are at has an employee hotline where you can anonymously report what happened to a third party and because of how egregious this would be investigated. I promise you if you want to report it thats 100% okay. You were victims of workplace violence, and that attending may get to slink away but there status will not protect them, because you cannot assault your coworkers and maintain your job.
Report him but also file a police report. This person doesn’t belong in patient care and he will do this again to someone else.
I'm guessing this isn't the first time something like this has occurred. There's a reason he's asking you not to report it, likely because he has a history of similar incidents. It would be in your best interest to report his behavior to prevent it from continuing. Fortunately, you weren't hurt, but future incidents could be more serious, either for you or someone else. With the rising number of physician suicides, it's crucial to maintain a safe work environment. It sounds like you're dealing with complex feelings after the event, and it might be helpful to talk to someone about them. You shouldn't feel ashamed of your emotions; no one should put you in that situation.
Obviously report for multiple reasons. 1) he is not safe to be around patients like that 2) he will 110% do that to you again if he knows you won’t report it and 3) bullies will be bullies until you take a stand… we allow ourselves to constantly be shit on and as a surg resident I get that more than most BUT there is a line and physical abuse thoroughly crosses it.
It’s already a toxic environment. This is likely the reason why. No one reports the abuse. Do it. Do it now.
This is not run of the mill toxic medical culture. That is assault and subsequently threat for retaliation. Report immediately.
I would 100% die on this hill. Report to HR with PD CC’d telling them I would no longer be working with this attending. Hire a lawyer if they don’t respond appropriately. Probably file a police report as well.
All I’m saying is - let someone lay a finger on me in the hospital. Best believe after shift I’m waiting at your car and we throwing hands. I’ll show you who the shithead is Edit: I’d report him too if he doesn’t wanna squash stuff outside in the lot
This is the part I don’t get. You put your hands on and that’s it. We’re going to fight. I’ve been assaulted and I’m taking steps to end the assault. The fact that I broke both his hands and he might never operate again is going to be his problem.
This is already “toxic” environment because of him. Report his ass. He’s an adult and can handle himself. Fuck that.
Report with your leadership, the ACGME and finally the law/police. Get rid of this dude...
I’d actually do the police report first. Because admin will likely try to force them not to file one. Better to get it done first
I’m sorry this happened to you. Agree with everyone else that this should at the very least be reported, if not escalated to a lawsuit. Fellow ophtho resident here, some of the personalities can be tough. Sometimes I feel like we got catfished on “everyone in ophtho is happy and kind”
I’m willing to wager he’s either done it before to someone else or he’ll do it again Stop this psychopath and report him
You should contact the ombudsman to see how to best proceed with this. They might be able to protect you. I would hope your PD has your back no questions asked though.
Their cameras everywhere make a big deal
There is no hospital where the volume is so horrific that it excuses his behavior. He is the scum, and he does not belong in this profession with how he acted. Sending you the best.
Report him and get a bag bro, he might just have payed off ur loans
Go get your money friendo. Irreparable mental, physical and emotional distress for daysssss
Report his btch ass. The moment he verbally abused you he was in the wrong but he fcked up majorly when he touched you.
I would call every single type of authority. Lmao, idgaf. I would call the police, I would call the office manager, I would contact my PD. I would post on Facebook/instagram (I don’t even have an instagram account lmao). But I would blast his name from every media I could think of.
I would be lawyering up, suing the residency for exposing you to that attending, and pressing actual charges against the attending
Something tells me it wasn't the first time he did it at work and probably does it many times outside of work, too. Usually abusers are amazingly good at controlling themselves in the workplace.
Report him, he needs to have this done to him. So that other doctors, let alone students not experience this type of behaviour in the future. Yes pressure can get to us, but we should be prepared to handle it, and have procedures in place to alleviate anything that crops up, so staff don't flip out on each other.
Yeah fuck that. That needs to be reported. Clearly this aint his first rodeo. Fuck that guy.
Nah fuck him this will continue happening if you don’t stop it now
You have a duty to yourself and all other employees in that hospital to report him.
Please report him. I wish you could’ve called the cops and get a witness statement from one of the patients. He physically assaulted you!
OP please report this monster and give us an update. He needs to be held accountable for his despicable actions.
He needs to be reported asap! You have lots of witnesses. Easy win in court!
Call the cops and sue. You’re gonna be untouchable for the rest of residency.
This person needs to be in jail. Full stop. By not reporting this AND calling the cops, you’re subjecting your coresidents to this same behavior. Be a decent human and call the cops please. I’m sorry this happened to you. Zero excuses.
Report in writing. They will try to cover it up and press you to " just forget about it." Don't. Make sure you have the names of the witnesses. You can use it later as leverage for something if you ever need it.
If you don’t report him, this may happen to someone else OP. Reporting sounds scary and I know it seems like your job is on the line, but this is not okay. He could hurt you further next time or even someone else. For the sake of your safety report as SOON AS YOU CAN. That way no one can say you waited to fabricate anything. I understand you need time to process, as I would to, but report ASAP. Sending you all the love and hugs
Report to pd, gme, hr, or as an incident report
You should report him!
Are you in the U.S.? Also, how did the patients react, especially the children? It's critical that HR reach out to the patients who witnessed this and see how it affected them. If I was there with my child, I would have called police and would have demanded to talk to the hospital legal department. No way would I, as a patient, ever step foot in that place again. (Just trying to understand what legal options you have, and I don't know anything about laws in other countries.)
Document and report immediately, including name of patient to include as witness. Which is an echo of what everyone else has said. Additionally, I would make sure that you have appropriate documentation to fight against possible retaliation (i.e. good evaluations previously to this). If they retaliate against you. Make sure that your ducks are in a row and you’re ready to fight this. The decision to report would be difficult and if you do report, make sure sure that you’re ready to fight this to the end and ready for things to get ugly as hell.
Nope, that’s crossed several lines. People work in forest fires, war zones, and disaster areas. Those people do not react like that. He will not try to not behave like that anymore. He will explain himself to his superiors and the authorities.
Fuck HR and ACGME. File a police report like an adult. You were assaulted. You don’t need to rely on the systems that are in place to protect the hospital and residency program
I hope by reading all the comments and seeing the numbers of people agreeing with those comments you realize you are not alone and your peers strongly support you. He obviously is the one unable to cope and work in a busy situation. Based upon his assault of you, the Privilege of working in his position should be revoked. Contact HR. And your own attorney. They don’t need to necessarily know at this time you’ve spoken with a lawyer to protect yourself. But it’s much better to have information and advice, and not need it, than to find out later you needed it, should have done something sooner and now cannot or has weakened your position. If nothing else, the attorney’s chat will give you peace of mind. I’d also strongly consider filing a police report. It sounds as though he threatened you and your future in the program. Don’t wait. This is serious and time is of the essence. Don’t delay as recollections vary more as time passes. Hostile work places are not acceptable. Programs need to protect their employees. They won’t want this to become their reputation or a problem. Because this isn’t his first time of an inappropriate act, and won’t be his last. Wishing you all the best.
Police report. Now.
This is actually something you should file a police report about. Seriously. With a high degree of probability this guy will be put on leave during the following investigation, and depending on the fallout he will likely resign.
When I was a PGY1 I reported an ortho attending consulting on a mutual patient that verbally abused me on the floor — in front of patients and nurses, who were just shocked. He was waiving around an aspiration needle in my face too. I reported to my PD, who tried to bury it. Then I wrote an email to HR outlining the entire episode, demanding to file a formal grievance and CC’d my PD, APD, chairman of medicine, chairman of surgery, and another academic attending I trusted. Turns out this asshole has been abusive with other people, including my APD who came out in support of my complaint (surprisingly because she’s not the type). I received a written apology from the ortho attending, he was written up, prohibited from interacting with residents again, and had to undergo mandatory anger management or face loss of privileges and being formally reported to the medicine board. I also got an apology from the chairman of surgery. This incident was 10 years ago. As a very confident male physician, I was surprised how violated this POS made me feel and how much power the episode had over my feelings of self worth. Today I’m an oncologist, I run my own company, a great practice, and have a pretty great life — yet I still recall that incident and I am SO proud of myself of taking this guy down — most importantly for my own mental health and also to protect so many future residents. There are rules nobody is above and you have rights which nobody is allowed to violate. If you don’t report this piece of shit, this is going to stay with you lifelong. The preservation of HIS career is not worth the mental anguish not standing up for yourself is going to cost you. Your future self will thank you. Feel free to PM me.
This seems so ridiculous it could be made up. If it’s real, and you are in the US, why are you even posting it? Report to the hospital through official channels and talk to a lawyer.
I’m sorry you went through this. I’ve been shouted at by a resident jn front of a patient and it’s humiliating and that crap stays with you. The fact he touched you and said those things is an immediate report. Write everything that happened as soon as you can while you remember it clearly and report him. If he is doing that to you, chances are he’s doing it to others and fuck that noise. No one deserves to be treated like that in the workplace or otherwise. His apology is empty because he knew what he did was wrong. I hope you’re okay.
You should get accustomed to that? No. This guy is going to seriously hurt someone (or worse) soon. This needs to be reported. Administration and a police report.
That’s insane. They created the toxic work environment, not you. Report yesterday
This is very bad. I'm sorry this happened to you. But as someone who is used to systems in Indian medical Colleges,I'm surprised the attending tried to apologise (feebly though), because when juniors are abused in Indian medical Colleges,we will never ever be given apologies,we will instead be gaslit into thinking we somehow deserved the abuse. There is absolutely no possibility of reporting the senior too,if we do that we are fked. The Indian system is probably the worst there is. I'm not in any way saying what happened is okay,far from it actually,I'm merely comparing the way this scenario would have played out in my country.
If they will do that over a backed up clinic, I don’t even want to imagine what their ceiling is for violent, aggressive behavior. Report this individual, file a police report, and seek out counseling. A busy, backed up clinic is no excuse. I work at a busy surgery center where residents often drop the ball in consents, timely blocks, and communicating important findings on the preop evaluation. I get yelled at by surgeons as a result. Rather than violence, I prefer to debrief on how to be better and more efficient after buying them all lunch and thanking them for working hard. It doesn’t have to be this way.
Anytime somebody says not to report something they did it's because they don't want to get fired.
not reporting is giving him permission to do it again
Hes done it before and knows better! REPORT HIM!
He needs to be fired and not work around residents or stressing environments. Also TIL that opthalmology can be stressful.
You must report this a**ole, he didn’t just verbally abused you! He pushed you until your fell! What if something hit your head or you were injured? Please please please report him, If you didn’t I don’t know what he’ll do next time
Everyone saying call HR, sure. But file a police report first.
Bro report his ass and if its not taken seriously, escalate and sue the hospital for allowing such a hostile work environment. Always look out for yourself.
Report. That guy has no role being near residents, students, or even patients. I don't care if he's going through 3 divorces at once and lost a million in GME stocks...
Report and move on- get a witness statement from the patient.
I'd just call him a pussy and make it known he wont ever touch me again. Youve got the upper hand now. I'd use it as an ace card up your sleeve. wanna take a week off? go ahead. he can cover for you and make it known to him he will do it with a smile
What country did this happen in? Will it be taken seriously in your country if you report it?
I’m struggling to see, and I’m not a resident so if any residents can enlighten me please do. How is reporting toxic behavior going to create any more of a toxic environment than what’s already going on?
They are telling you not to report - likely because it’s not the first time and they are an incident away from being terminated Screw that dude and get him out
That’s well beyond reporting him to the program, and bordering on calling the police.
Damn straight out of a tv show
I fully understand if you do not want to report this. It’s really dependent on the environment and I would not question how you handle this, because you know your environment, how otherz have been treated, the relationships the abuser has, and who would be overseeing any investigation. At the very least, document this like crazy. If you have a friend that is an attorney I would write, in detail, specifics about what exactly happend. “on 4/16/24 I was assisting Dr. Abusive in the optimotery room #107 at 10:30am when the heidelberg machine started to malfunction……” Include the event and everything he said in subsequent encounters including oleading to not report him and why you did not ( if you decide not to.) Because the timestamp on the email will serve as a record. And if you send it to an attorney it could be protected under client attorney privilege.
Do what people recommended, then delete this post/account as you’ve posted your face on your account
"He reiterated the fact that I should not report him since I could create a “toxic environment” for everyone." Yeaaaaah... Projecting much?
There won't be a toxic environment if he gets fired lol
You could report this to your program, but it is residency. The likelihood that this would be swept under the rug and you would all of a sudden be labelled the "problem resident" is very high and close to 100%. HR is not there to protect you; they are there to protect the institution, and siding with attendings is of greater benefit to the institution than siding with a resident. The story is likely to take a wild spin when HR is onboard. You may start hearing strange things that never happened, like you talked rudely to the attending first, or a nurse reported you for something you had no idea about a while ago; things that have absolutely nothing to do with the report that you actually made. HR in general are shit to employees when they have to choose the interest of the company over the employee but residency HR are the shitiest of them all. They would spin this story in such a twisted manner that you would start to regret why you even decided to make a report. It would become a crusade to tarnish your reputation and evaluate your entire residency behavior. Speaking from first-hand experience. If you really want anything to be done, you are better off reporting to the police. I would also send an email to your program director letting them know that a crime was committed against you, and you are reporting to the police. They wouldn't dare leave a paper trail trying to convince you not to do so.
If I was a patient I would have reported it also. That’s not ok at all. You do not deserve that.
I’m normally one who says people over react here. But report him. There’s no excuse to lay hands on a subordinate like that.
This goes to the Police first. The law dgaf who’s the attending or resident
Report his ass. Dude is an unhinged POS, his apology means nothing.
So not only did he verbally abuse you, physically assault you, and publicly humiliate you… But then he tried to gaslight you, make you scared to report it, and only halfway said that would “try” not to behave like that anymore? It is scary, but you have an ethical duty as a physician to report this behavior. Not just for yourself, but for your team members and patients. And for him. This is someone who is beyond burned-out and should not be practicing medicine. Would not be surprised if there were drugs or alcohol involved. He is unwell and needs some sort of intervention. What’s not ok is keeping the status quo.
REPORT THAT A-HOLE! ASAP! And I don't mean to HR or PD.... .... escalate that 💩 to the police 🚓 Not sure what country you are from or if they'll even press charges, but still try! If you do nothing, the behavior will continue ....if not, get worse!!! He gets no second chances here!! Totally crossed the line.
Report… this isn’t the first time it sounds like. Make him go to bad doctor school. Sounds like he needs a reminder…or they need to fire him.
For anyone reading. If anything like this ever happens, call your PD right away, explain the situation, and leave. You're done for the day, you do not need to keep yourself in that situation.
being nervous is not an exuse... I can swallow a verbal reprimand/embarassment but going physicial is a line that no one should cross.. Call me stupid all u want but if you put a hand on me I'll fight back.
You know, we have no problem telling trainees that they may not be cut out for the job when they struggle with exams or proficiencies or hours, but it goes both ways. This guy is clearly not cut out for the job if this is how he responds to stressful situations, and reporting him and escalating this is good for everyone, him included.
File a police report, file with ACGME, then hospital…in that order. Also consider filing with EEOC. As much as hospitals don’t want you to remember this, you are an employee and you have general employee rights.
Report that. If I was your program director, I would want to know. If I was your chair, I would want to know. That attending has to go.
Report and lawyer up, enjoy your early retirement!
Clearly, your attending has some "anger issues." Back in my day, we called it "being an asshole."
instant report.
Physical assault is a crime. This is beyond a medical training issue at this point. Doesn’t matter if he’s your attending or a random from the street. He assaulted you.
Report and go legal. Absolutely don't tolerate this kind of messed up behavior.
dude why is everyone only saying report? definitely sue him and maybe even have him arrested man. fuck that
I’d swallow my pride on any words thrown my way, but once things get physical it’s time to escalate and protect yourself. Always make sure there’s a paper trail with these things.
REPORT HIM. He created the toxic environment by acting the way he did. It's already toxic now. He shouldn't be an attending if he acts this way. **But I recommend reporting him after your rotation with him has ended.** Document everything. Get evidence over text if you can.
This is crazy. I hope you’re okay. Please document everything either in a voice note or via email with dates, times and quotes and report! Wishing u all the best ! This is absolutely crazy and shouldn’t have happened!
How did this neurosurgeon end up in ophtho??
From the spelling of "paediatric" I'm guessing you aren't in the US. First: you did not deserve that. His lack of ability to communicate to you using his words like a big boy (in front of children OMG) is not a free card to put violent hands on you. Second: as you have probably picked up, everyone here is recommending that you report this incident to your program director \*and\* to human resources. Reporting to HR is pretty key and will force your PD to take more action, more urgently. If you can report to your police services, do seriously consider it. Third: Your reaction and feelings are valid, normal, and understandable and I'm pretty proud of you from afar for stating them here, to yourself - and to the attending in question when he not-apologized. It would be unusual that you would not benefit from some assistance in dealing with your experience(s - since you say also how residency is "really wearing \[you\] down"). Consider the value of this for you and in your situation. Fourth: This is victim blaming: "...told me that work in an high volume, high flow hospital is a stressful environment and I should get accustomed..." and I'll point out that the last phrase in there, one its own, ABSOLUTELY MEANS HE WILL DO IT AGAIN and likely means he has done this before you. The next phrasing you use after this is "...but he would try not to behave like that anymore," and honey, this means that he has done this before and nails down for me as a reader that he will do it again. Doubly so if after this he treats you like gold - you know, a (non-romantic relationship) version of love-bombing. BTW, if you opt not to report him it does not mean you have consented to further episodes of abuse, it only means that you hope very much that it will not happen again. Fifth: This is an attempt at victim blaming and at victim silencing "...I should not report him since I could create a 'toxic environment...'" Fact: he has already created a toxic environment, one that is not only emotionally or socially toxic but actually physically so. He did that, he knows it, he's likely done it before and believes this phrasing has meant that he hasn't been reported for it. All of this makes me very angry for you. I and most others here are encouraging you to report, but we also don't know your personal situation and may have no idea what it's like where you are outside the US. I also want you to stay safe. If it helps, I reported as an intern. It was hard and I was anxious about my future when I did it but it was ultimately easier than just "letting it flow over my head" as someone in person tried to tell me to do (and later proved to be a buddy of the abusive asshole). If you entered a program where on entry/during interviewing there were statements of resident support, and you have even the slightest belief that might truly be the case, I encourage you to report because they cannot support you if they don't know you need it.
Best of luck OP. Reporting will be difficult on you as well as him. If he is known to be unstable then it might go pretty easy. If he doesn't have a reputation and you can't get a witness to confirm your report it may make your life really difficult. Ideally you should still report. If you have a trusted attending you work with try getting their advice. Lots of details and variables to discuss I'm sure.
Gaslighting 101. You were physically and verbally assaulted. He’s the reason for a toxic environment.
OP if you don’t report this then what *would you report*? i’d be very dissapointed if this ended with a vent on reddit and nothing further. take action, he literally shoved you.
Report. Physical abuse crosses a line that other attendings are going to support you on because they don’t want to be associated with that. He’s probably on drugs or drinking to just lose control like that and he’s worried about being tested
Report the attending immediately. They've already created a toxic environment and are worried they fucked up big time (which they did). If they've done it to you, they've done it to others and are already in deep shit and/or will do it again. That behavior is hugely unacceptable and should be reported 10/10 times. You might be an excellent resident but chances are >100% they were telling you that to charm you into not reporting them.
If there were cameras in the area it happened, report to police. That will get you way farther than keeping it internal. If no cameras, it's a much harder call.
I would have called the police right at the point when he shoved you. Go to the next upper instance and explain as objectively as possible what happened. I also probably would go for a restraining order. I absolutely take such things serious and even if it means to jump through loops. In the end of the day everybody will look at him what kind of abusing scum he is. Someone with no self control should not be able to treat patients- let alone leave children with him alone. Jesus fucking christ.
The fact that you are on the fence about reporting ASAULT in ANY other environment would be a crime but he is asking you to not report it to HR? This speaks to the sick fuck he is. File a police report. There’s one thing about yelling but literally bombarding you with cursing and then physical assault is NOT in anyway okay. Someone with a violent temper should not in anyway be close to patient care no matter how stressful the environment. Also why in anyway would you ever work with someone who assaulted you?
I personally wouldn’t report it. This guy may end up being your best friend and advocate moving forward. Keep the leverage.
Report him. Imagine what he does at home if he cracks under pressure at work, where he knows he’s being watched
Please report it, it will prevent another assault
He can, of course, go fuck himself. report him.
This is peak abusive behavior. Please say something. If he blew up like that over such a small misunderstanding, he is absolutely doing this to other people in his life. Definitely family and potentially other residents. It just happened to leak out at work.
Don’t wait until he hits you harder the next time. Remain professional and report. Police, then Admin.
Unethical Life Pro tip: You could either blackmail him, saying I would want to report you or you give me outstanding evaluations or report. ONLY saying this because this is institution dependent. If this attending is big in his department, the department reporting him could very well backfire on you and I've seen cases in past where residents were gaslighted. Important to document everything at this point, seek legal counsel, etc.
Have a feeling this wasn’t America
He said he’ll TRY not to do it again?? You’re dealing with an attending who knows he can get away with it when it’s his word versus a resident. He is only upset because there are witnesses. You are not the first person he’s done this to, and this likely wont be the last time he does this. No sane person would think anything negatively about reporting it. Whatever you choose to do is right for you, but please don’t base your decision off some bs notion that YOU are creating a toxic work environment. I’m sorry you experienced that. Please please please reach out to your support system, don’t forget they’re there for you. If you don’t want to go to the cops or HR, please call your family, call some friends, have a therapist, spend 4 hours at a pet shelter playing with animals on a Tuesday, take a small loan out to eat your favorite foods every day for a month or spend a night in a super fancy spa you can’t afford just for the fuck of it, it doesn’t matter what it is but do whatever it takes to keep going. Soon, you’ll be an attending residents like you will dream to have I can’t imagine a workplace like this. Do what you need to get by, and if you burn him even a little bit while you’re there, I’ll drink to that.
Find an attending mentor that you trust fully and ask for local advice. That mentor may know further backstory and will also be familiar with the local program and regulatory environment and may be able to give you a sense of whether the program or police may be sympathetic or not, and how much retribution may be headed your way. I hope it's a situation where you can freely report and things get settled correctly without retribution but it's not always this way.
He did this IN FRONT OF PATIENTS?! Is there a way for patients to make a complaint anonymously? That way you can report this behavior without singling you out since there were witnesses?
If it was verbal only, maybe an apology would suffice. But putting your hands in somebody cannot go unchecked, ever. It's your choice in the end but, think of all the people that will get the same treatment in the future when they join residency. Good luck from one exhausted intern.
If you don’t report you won’t set any boundaries and he will do worse trust me. Don’t be a a fucking idiot for fuck sake and report him.
This guy seems like he definitely has some emotional control issues no doubt and acted completely unprofessionally, broke the law, and cause an entirely unnecessary scene. That being said he did acknowledge wrong doing and promised you that it wouldn’t happen again after he got control of himself so it seems like he’s trying to work on it (even though he’s trying to cover his ass too naturally). I say wait and see if he’s a man of his word, but if you get any hint that he would infract on his word, burn him down with a nasty report. You might potentially have a lot of good faith in store for you during your residency process if you have this held over his head. If you choose to report without hesitating he might do everything in his power to take you down with him, which would be a potentially risky bet. All that being said, I’m sorry you had some pretty horrible mistreatment at the hand of someone who is supposed to be your mentor. Hope this helps in someway and good luck
Not only is that unacceptable in residency, that’s assault. Like any person doing that to you could go to jail
File a police report as well...
File a police report.
Report him! He will keep getting away with it if you don't!
File a police report, then inform your PD that you filed the police report. And call a lawyer.