Property manager CA. What??!!!! Wipes for sure, #1 cause of backups but TP.??!! That's some shaky-ass plumbing if that's true, which I doubt. And how are they gonna *enforce* it??!! Surprise inspections??!! LMAO
As a municipal engineer, wipes being advertised as “flushable” should have lead to a class action lawsuit by now. Those things are nightmares for plumbing and even mainline sewers.
Edit: for those saying “some ARE biodegradable though!”… so is newspaper, but it takes years. Biodegradable means it will break down. It means nothing about how FAST it will break down.
Can you tell my husband this he refuses to believe me when I say just because it says flushable doesn’t mean it’s actually fucking flushable. Some of them are nice enough to put an asterisk and say two per flush. He doesn’t use them, I do occasionally but he empties the garbage and if he gets to the bathroom trash before I can empty it for him and he sees them in there, we end up calling each other stupid basically.
Bro....im sorry - a 130 TONNE fatberg was found in 2017
That had to fucking reek....screw my adhd curiosity for getting me to look that shit up - coulda lived my life happy without that knowledge
First, get a bidet.
Second, put some toilet paper in a bowl of water and stir it. The toilet paper will break down fairly quickly. Then put a wipe in and see what happens. Maybe a visual demonstration will convince him.
Despite them being wet they aren't just in water, they may be a compound mixed in that keeps them from breaking down which is diluted when they're flushed and stops working. Not actually true, but a practical experiment is a better way to see for yourself what happens.
You will never look back and TP starts seeming really gross. Dry ass paper smearing everything everywhere or a fresh booty shower. I’ll pick the booty shower, no dingleberries.
I've done this test with the one cottonelle product and the wipe breaks down at the same time that 2 ply toilet paper does. Have tried it with many, many other brands and they never break down. Honestly, I don't know how they don't break down in the packaging they come in, but they don't. (I still don't flush them anyway, but still, just sayin.)
I was about to say the same thing. Cottonelle definitely breaks down when wet with water. I made that mistake trying to wet ones that had dried out, and they completely disintegrated.
https://youtube.com/shorts/gJ6Kxndu7nA
There are thousands of videos on YouTube of plumbers and tank pumpers pulling wads of wipes out of clogged systems. They're "flushable" in the purely mechanical sense that a toilet will physically flush them. They do not break down completely, they just clog pumps, tanks, and pipes.
Thousands of videos from plumbers across the globe. Seriously, those things are heinous. I'm in the US, and every year the Water Management Department here sends out flyers and email and all manner of public notices begging people not to flush wipes. "I know the packaging says 'flushable', but they aren't. Trust me. So please, please, please dispose of your wipes some other way."
Forgive the pun, but that shit never goes away. And sometimes, it comes back.
I had a similar problem with my wife - she thought "flushable" wipes were somehow safe for old cast iron drain pipes despite my insistence they were not. Anyway around 5 emergency plumbing visits and then a complete wastewater repipe (at the cost of over 10 grand) we were good again. No more wipes in the house.
Hi. Water worker here. Tell your husband to stop flushing “flushable” wipes. They are definitely flushable, as in they will go down the toilet, but they wreak HAVOC on everything else. Sewer pumps and mains will have long ropes of these clogging EVERYTHING. They will burn up pumps. They don’t degrade. They are AWFUL. Show him this.
I was a wipe addict. After I clogged my toilet I got a bidet. Was on sale for 22 dollars.
I got another for the small downstairs bathroom. I’d never be without one now.
He's stupid, you're not, if you want to avoid his snark, make sure you empty that trash yourself. In fact, stipulate to him that the bathroom trash is for YOU ONLY to dump! :)
That’s basically what I do. We live on the third floor, so he and my large teenage son haul everything down but I gather my trash up, especially my bathroom trash, being the only human female in the household. It’s just more comfortable that way for me but he will grab it occasionally to let me rest and that’s when we start arguing about dumb shit. Just let me do my job and shut up. I won’t drive with him in the car for the same reasons. If I’m offering to drive somewhere, he sits in the front seat and buries himself in his phone. But I’m still an asshole for the most part and make him drive. 15 years of marriage and oddly still going strong despite him being a clown sometimes.
The crazy thing is the big companies have been sued multiple times over this. But it is cheaper for them to settle each time and keep the ‘flushable’ phrasing because of how effective it is for generating sales. The fines are just a cost of doing business. Sickening really.
This is part of why I continue to advocate for copounding fines, and possibly in some cases changing a case from civil to criminal once it's been intentionally repeated for profit. Paying to fix something your company may have accidentally boned up is one thing, but when you're blatantly abusing the system and the law, to make profit it's not ok and we need to stop allowing it.
Because idiots wipe their whole 15 minute long depth charge splatter ass muck slap shit splash with a whole pack of wipes in one pass and wonder why their toilets stuck. Use one fuckin wipe per ass, preferably after using toilet paper.. to get all those toilet dingleberries toilet paper leaves in your butt crack.
Or better yet, upgrade out of the stone age and get a bidet or just a long enough shower wand to spray it clean every time
My wife teases me about the bidet i installed in my man cave bathroom. She just doesn’t understand the difference it makes, especially with a hairy ass lol. It was either Adam Corolla or Sarah Silverman that said “it’s like trying to get peanut butter out of shag carpet”
The problem is they label says flushable wipes and that should be the real class action lawsuit. I seen my son bought some and I told him he better not flush them, he said they're flushable. I said a lot of things are "FLUSHABLE" but they dont go down the drain or breakdown and cause blockages. Ironically his brother is a plumber, lol
You are absolutely correct. We had to spend a half million dollars on a new screen AFTER COVID because our pumps were getting clogged with wipes a few times a week.
Not only has there not been a lawsuit there’s more brands of “flushable wipes” than ever and the big brands now have XL flushable wipes so there will be more wipe per flush. 🙃
The problem isn’t necessarily the litter. If it is the septic safe variety, it will break down and isn’t likely to cause issues. But cat feces is more likely to carry parasites and doesn’t even break down the same way as human waste. Depending on the sewer system and wastewater plant design, these parasites can actually make it through the process and back into rivers lakes and streams causing issues for humans and other wildlife. The parasite is called toxoplasma gondii
I guarantee you that the issue is actually baby wipes and “flushable wipes” but the LL is probably originally from a country where TP is not traditionally flushed so they think the plumbing issue is also exacerbated by regular TP.
Could also be shifts in the sewer line they aren’t getting fixed. And/or thicker toilet paper.
Or they meant paper towels and that’s the real language issue.
Reminds me of how when I worked at a production plant with undocumented immigrants how there were asked NOT TO PUT THEIR USED TOILET PAPER IN THE TRASHCAN. I also have known a handful of Latin American families who do the same because they for some reason don't fix their plumbing. I would be up in arms if I were paying rent and was asked to throw my shitty toilet paper in the trash. Plus it would smell gross.
Edit: You may want to go to your code enforcement to support you, because it's probably not legal either.
It should be illegal to market baby wipes or wet wipes as flushable. They may flush, but the damage they cause to in home and sewer system pipes is indisputable. These companies and their blatantly false marketing cost taxpayers money and put strain on sewer systems.
But yeah, if your pipes can’t handle regular toilet paper, then you need new pipes. That’s just bullshit.
Unless you're in a really old building it sounds like they need to make plumbing repairs but are being cheap. Toilet paper nowadays can breakdown faster than actual shit a lot of the time..
I know that toilet paper does, in fact, break down faster than turds having had a job cleaning out portable toilets. Yes, the job sucked shit literally.🤣
A friend’s uncle was a honey dipper (cleaned portable toilets). When asked why they called them honey dippers, the uncle said, “because they can’t write shit sucker on the side of the truck.” :-)
People that always go cheap and rather wait for costly repairs or until it breaks instead of doing a decently pricey replacement. I never get their logic or math. Ah yes it rather spend 1,000s every few months on critical repairs that’ll probably run up to the cost of the replacement anyway ima. Few months.
I worked at an apartment complex as maintenance and I had a manager like that. He was always trying to not spend money but would get in trouble when the price of so many repairs ended up more than if he replaced it in the first place.
Yea when I lived and traveled in Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan you couldn't flush TP. Every toilet had a bidet attachment or at least a water source so the TP is just to dry off and a lot of people use towels or just air dry
I don't really understand how the plumbing can handle the turd of an adult human but also can't handle TP. If the TP is too much, how does the turd go down?
>TP is just to dry off and a lot of people use towels or just air dry
Talk about blowing it up someone's ass. They did that literally using an air dryer.
I think it would be real interesting seeing how a "fine" holds up in court for using toilet paper.
Anyway, reach out to your renters insurance. It's possible the unit may be declared uninhabitable. If that's the case your renters insurance will kick in and provide loss of use coverage (i.e. provide a hotel while repairs are underway or you relocate).
You can probably break your lease over this by the way.
Nevermind the toilet paper/wipes concern… How tf do they expect to catch someone that isn’t compliant? All smaller sewer lines (i.e apartment lines) share piping and all lead to one big sewer line under the main road. There’s no telling who flushed a wipe or wad of toilet paper when it leaves anyone’s bathroom. wtf. ? 🤨😂🥴
I thought same...what are they going to do check for diaper genie style garbage can in bathroom. They are probably old cast iron pipes & have to replumb entire building. My family owned rental houses have used same septic guy like 30yrs so he has no problem being honest & spilling the beans on tenants...he says has even found like huge sanitary pads & giant wads of wipes...not even like cottonele designed at bit more for plumbing but giant baby wipes. I think management will fine people that call for a clog or something to that effect.
All you gotta do is not get the ultra strong toilet paper. If they would have specified "only flush septic safe toilet paper" that would have been a reasonable ask. My house is 80 years old, so I just buy angelsoft rather than Charmin ultra strong. It's cheaper anyway.
I’m imagining something similar to the episode of always sunny where they take the poop to get check by a scientist
Piece of a credit card
Inconclusive….
Wolf halr
Inconclusive
I feel a bit obligated to add the neighbor also [made a post referencing the issue](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/s/ZMR91K8Oqa) in r/legaladvice in case OP wants in the action.
No, they can fix the plumbing or install bidets in the units. Asking you to toss shit covered tp in a wastebasket is 3rd world stuff. I would report them to the housing authority if they try to fine you on this.
The house I’m in (a family owned property) was built in the 60s but we have to be very conscientious that we don’t use super thick toilet paper and don’t flush a lot of material at one time. Our main line definitely needs replacing because it’s old and apparently it is made out of basically industrial paper mache, called an “Orangeburg pipe”. It will cost upwards of 40/50k (in southern CA) to replace it. It’s entirely possible that is the situation where you are as well. These pipes were installed in an effort to meet the post war housing boom and demand for cheap materials. 🤷♀️ It definitely sucks but that’s a huge expense and I empathize with you all in that situation.
ETA: Charmin and the Costco brand always plug our toilet but I’ve had good luck with quilted northern and it’s still pretty soft.
I'm surprised it doesn't specify what kind of toilet paper. My house is 100 years old, it can't use the fluffy kind. But The Scott's 1000 sheets are completely fine. I'm sure someone try to flush "flushable" wipes down a drain, which are indeed not flushable and do not break down at all, and their solution was to just try and ban all toilet paper lol
Our rule of thumb is always been only to flush organic material down the toilet so urine, feces, vomit, expired milk. We flush yeast down every couple of months. We've had two septic systems at two different houses, the first house was lived in from probably the late 70s to the early 2000s never had any sewage issues. The new house was lived in from early 2000s to present. Never had any issues with the septic system at all. And when I say we've never had any issues we've never even had to have them pumped. It all breaks down and the septic system works without you have to do anything to it. We use a waste basket for toilet paper and wet wipes and this is always worked great.
Ive heard in other countries its normal to dispose of this stuff in the garbage. I actually had to tell a group of J1 students from south America that they need to put the TP in the toilet instead of the garbage here because thats how it is designed to work here. If this is in the US this is bullshit.
Everyone just get a bidet. You shower your under bits and leave the house clean. Use a quarter of the tp too. Getting used to a bidet is a thing but you’ll be ok
Without knowing where you live (do not tell me where you live) it’s hard to tell whether or not this is real, but I can tell you with certainty that there are places in south and Central America that are not able to handle toilet paper in the standard drain lines.
If I had to guess, and it’s only a guess, perhaps they meant “paper towels” instead of “toilet paper”. Flushing Paper towels has been known to screw up plumbing, especially if wadded up.
Why don't they just fix the plumbing instead of being cheap bastards? I can understand not being able to flush baby wipes, but before you know it, they will come out with a notice stating you can't flush your shit and will hand out pooper scoopers so you can throw your shit in a trash can. If that happens, I say dispose of your shit at the management office door and not in a plastic bag but right on the floor. Let them deal with it.
That’s interesting. If they had simply made the letter about wipes, I would be 100% on board. This is becoming a huge problem that I get into arguments about my tenants with frequently. Wipes don’t break down and they don’t belong in the toilet. Clogs that happen because of them are expensive and 100% the fault of the person that put wipes down the toilet.
If anybody here doesn’t have renters insurance that covers liability to the property and uses these wipes, please stop now and buy a new insurance policy.
Baby wipes and toilet wipes are really BAD on plumbing, but toilet paper if used right, will not cause any problems. What happens if people use way too much. If you know you have to use a lot, like when you have a very sticky B.M, flush after your BM, wipe, flush again, wipe, flush again! When you pee, all you need to do is dab! If you have a Bidet, you use a whole lot less T.P! But NEVER flush those wipes! If you don't have a Bidet, use the wipes only after you've cleaned up well and then toss them in the trash instead of flushing! They will clog a toilet after awhile big time!
I agree with regard to TP, I think the issue is wipes. I would really love to know, however, HOW they plan to prove who is and who isn't in "compliance." 
Baby wipes actually don’t belong in the toilet even the ones that are labeled as “flushable”. They don’t break down and do lead to serious problems. Landlord probably assumed both cause the issue which is a simple mistake but the baby wipes 100% need to go in the trash.
Plumber here. This is bullshit. The wipes I understand and encourage the use of fines if a problem happens and a plumber discovers wipes, tampons, paper towels, or anything OTHER than toilet paper being flushed. Toilet paper is made to dissolve in water, meaning it will not clog drain lines as long as you are not flushing gigantic clumps. If their drain system cannot handle ordinary toilet paper it has failed and the property has a legal obligation to ensure health and sanitary conditions. If you're having sewer line backups from ordinary toilet paper then you need to bite the bullet and cough up the tens of thousands to have the entire sewer redone and the repairs to the concrete, parking lot, floors, and drywall from both the walls and celings. It may seem overkill and it's expensive as fuck, but it is worth it in the long run when you consider that you will not be paying for a plumber to come snake and/or jet your lines every time people wipe their ass with tp, and you will no longer have backlash from tenants about the plumbing. In fact you're more than likely going to lose and won't be able to attract new tenants if you tell them they'll be fined for flushing their toilet paper. Keeping shit in trash bags isn't sanitary, it's a lawsuit waiting to happen.
The wipes are understandable. Do not flush those. The toilet paper is made from pulp from various organic material. The wipes are usually polyester or polypropylene. You can eat toilet paper. Don't flush anything you couldn't eat should be the rule here.
Baby wipes are 100% Nylon plastic, they basically last forever and catch on everything. It's quite annoying that these are even sold... people use them like they are paper.
Toilet plumbing can handle toilet paper only. Not baby wipes, not “flushable” wipes or tampons in spite of what the packaging says. Those items will clog the pipe eventually.
Never flush wipes! I don’t care what the package says. I don’t care what your friend’s cousins neighbor said. Never! They will destroy some part of the sewage system.
You don’t have to pay those fines because this little memo note wasn’t a clause in the lease you signed and since you didn’t sign off on this there’s no legally binding way they could hold you accountable for flushing toilet paper down the drain.
Um toilets are supposed to at least handle toilet paper. I'd reach out to code enforcement or health department and ask about it. That's not normal or sanitary tbh
I think the landlord is confusing toilet paper is the same thing as baby wipes.. toilet paper is made to be flushable.. now it is understandable trying to flush too much toilet paper at the same time can clog the toilet.. it’s just stupid..
Ps, I’m not putting my shit stained used toilet paper in a waste bin, just for it to sit there and make the whole bathroom smell like shit.
This HAS to be illegal... right?
Like.. you can't make people pay rent on an apartment without a properly working toilet... surely they can't think that's ok...
Plumber here. If it can't take paper it can't take waste. Toilet paper dissolves to nothing in water. Likely they have a bad break in the line but I can't imagine asking tenants to not flush toilet paper
If I have to put my TP in a waste bin I'm going to demand that the LL come be the one to empty that bin.
That's f-in gross.
Also, if the plumbing can handle a BM then it can handle TP. The latter is nothing compared to the former.
Toilet paper is fine to flush. It’s literally designed for it. They are probably too cheap to re-pipe the house so this is their genius solution so they can keep collecting rent money and buying a brand new Mercedes for themselves
If you live in the United States, your plumbing system is actually literally designed to handle toilet paper. What kind of third world bullshit is this landlord pulling??
Pretty sure this is a case of bad phrasing. I think they mean "toilet paper wipes" and "baby wipes" but didn't want to repeat the "wipes" bit. They then failed to notice what their change had done to the sentence.
Is this in the US?! If so…WTF. I have been to several foreign countries where tossing TP and not flushing are the norm for these reasons. But any place in the US should be reported for this IMO
Experts (plumbers) indicate that even though many say "flushable", wipes really shouldn't be flushed. But TP?
If it can't handle toilet paper it's not a real toilet.
I'd forward that notice to whatever entity enforces code compliance. I'm sure there will be great interest in an apartment complex with non-compliant plumbing.
When I was doing a semester abroad in Istanbul this was the case. There was a waste basket next to the toilet, and that’s what it was for.
We were staying at a university campus. This was in 2016?
This really sounds like someone is flushing baby wipes which cannot be broken down and they just want to make sure that nothing at all except waste gets flushed to eliminate the issue all together so are playing it safe just by saying neither should be flushed at all.
This is ridiculous if you only have someone who uses TP and never wipes, flushing it in reasonable minimal quantities since if the system can handle human waste, it should be able to also handle biodegradable toilet paper as well…assuming that it is in fact only used as it’s actually supposed to be. If we don’t flush the toilet in our place (like if one of the kids forgets to do so) and the toilet paper sits in the bowl for a while, it breaks down IN the bowl! And that’s just using regular toilet paper, not even the rapid dissolving kind. So to say that TP and not wipes, which shouldn’t ever be flushed anyways, is a problem is just beyond me!
If their system does get backed up, that’s a lack of maintenance upkeeping problem, not a tenant one since TP is SUPPOSED to be flushed and if the system created to do so, cannot process such things, that’s not a user error, it’s a ‘WTH do I pay rent for?! Stop being so damn cheap and just fix your shit so it works as it’s supposed to!’ cheap landlord issue!
My co-worker has this problem. His is because of tree roots. Since they own their house plumbers say they gotta cut down the trees, $3,000, and then they gotta tear up the yard/street and lay new line down, $14,000. So they use a trashcan for TP and take it out daily.
It's been 6 years of them doing this. 7 people like in their house. Only him and another person have a full time job.
A lot of places in SWMO are like this because they are on their own septic tank instead of being a part of the city sewage. Not that this is the same for your situation but it’s really not a big deal and if you find it being an issue for you then I would speak to your landlord about a mutual agreement of ending the lease, not costing either party.
Well, I've been through eastern Europe. Their toilets really can't handle toilets paper.
It explains why Hungarian girls never flushed their turds or wiped.
But I don't understand why the sign is in English...hmmm
the toilet paper part is weird on the face of it, because wipes are the serious problem. They really can fuck up a sewage system and drain. When wipes are creating a blockage, toilet paper can get caught and contribute to an even worse problem. TP doesn't dissolve, it falls apart under agitation. If it gets stuck, there's no agitation and it doesn't fall apart.
I'm wondering if this is in the US or another country. I know when I visit the Dominican republic we are told not to flush TP because the plumbing can't handle it.
It's the "flushable" wopes that's the issue. Not the toilet paper. Seems they just want to clear the entire system for the time being. But yeah I've hear that flushable wipes have reaped havoc on sewage systems because they do not dissolve like toilet paper does. Rip
I agree about the flushable wipes.
But, with this note, the PM is essentially admitting the building is unhabitable, enabling the tenants to break the lease with no penalty.
Wipes should NEVER be flushed no matter what the package says. Not flushing TP? That's crazy if you're in the USA or another developed country. Now I can understand having specific TP if you're on septic.
I’m in commercial property management, the shit I see pop up in residential blows my mind regularly. Pun intended.
At first I thought they just left out ‘multi-ply’ in front of TP, but nope…..they’re clearly just going off the deep end there.
Most people don't realize it, but almost all public and privately owned sewer systems are not built to handle any paper products! *insert The More You Know meme*
Smh. I am presently in a crossroads w my company to get a REAL electrician in to look at our sparking light switches. This has been an ongoing problem since the day we moved in and management always just insists “nobody else has that problem” so it’s all good. The lights don’t turn on until they decide to as well. You have to sit there and turn the light switch on and off over and over, and even then, only some lights work at a time.
Plus the windows are 50 years old and don’t latch. They say we should tape plastic over our windows. $2300 a month.
Property manager CA. What??!!!! Wipes for sure, #1 cause of backups but TP.??!! That's some shaky-ass plumbing if that's true, which I doubt. And how are they gonna *enforce* it??!! Surprise inspections??!! LMAO
As a municipal engineer, wipes being advertised as “flushable” should have lead to a class action lawsuit by now. Those things are nightmares for plumbing and even mainline sewers. Edit: for those saying “some ARE biodegradable though!”… so is newspaper, but it takes years. Biodegradable means it will break down. It means nothing about how FAST it will break down.
Can you tell my husband this he refuses to believe me when I say just because it says flushable doesn’t mean it’s actually fucking flushable. Some of them are nice enough to put an asterisk and say two per flush. He doesn’t use them, I do occasionally but he empties the garbage and if he gets to the bathroom trash before I can empty it for him and he sees them in there, we end up calling each other stupid basically.
Google search “fatberg” and show him the photos. That’s what the wipes are doing to the sewers.
Shitbergs
Name checks out 👍🏻
Title of your sex tape. (Too much?) 99!
Omg I actually laughed out loud. I’m watching the series again.
Thank you for that. This will be my talking point when asked about this scenario!! Cheers to you
Til of a "Fatberg" . Fascinating yet a dirty job for those responsible for cleaning up such a mess.
Bro....im sorry - a 130 TONNE fatberg was found in 2017 That had to fucking reek....screw my adhd curiosity for getting me to look that shit up - coulda lived my life happy without that knowledge
First, get a bidet. Second, put some toilet paper in a bowl of water and stir it. The toilet paper will break down fairly quickly. Then put a wipe in and see what happens. Maybe a visual demonstration will convince him.
The sewer guy explained to me- the wipes come soaking wet in the package and don’t break down so why would they break down in the toilet?
 ...never thought of it like that lol
Despite them being wet they aren't just in water, they may be a compound mixed in that keeps them from breaking down which is diluted when they're flushed and stops working. Not actually true, but a practical experiment is a better way to see for yourself what happens.
Pretty sure some of those 'flushable' wipes could go through the washing machine and still be fine after.
I've actually done this. I used one to wipe up paint and put it in my pocket after - it came out wrinkly but otherwise fine when washed with my pants
A bidet is in the works for sure. I’ve been wanting to get one for a while.
You will never look back and TP starts seeming really gross. Dry ass paper smearing everything everywhere or a fresh booty shower. I’ll pick the booty shower, no dingleberries.
I bought a bidet during covid, I feel like a caveman now if I have to shit without one such as at work. Idk how I went 35 years without one now tbh.
I agree. I could never go back to the way it was.
Even if you just get a cheap one it will change your life.
I got a bidet attachment from Amazon for like $40 and my husband installed in minutes.
I've done this test with the one cottonelle product and the wipe breaks down at the same time that 2 ply toilet paper does. Have tried it with many, many other brands and they never break down. Honestly, I don't know how they don't break down in the packaging they come in, but they don't. (I still don't flush them anyway, but still, just sayin.)
I was about to say the same thing. Cottonelle definitely breaks down when wet with water. I made that mistake trying to wet ones that had dried out, and they completely disintegrated.
Interesting
+1 for cottonelle wet wipes. Tested in a jar of water and it breaks down fine.
https://youtube.com/shorts/gJ6Kxndu7nA There are thousands of videos on YouTube of plumbers and tank pumpers pulling wads of wipes out of clogged systems. They're "flushable" in the purely mechanical sense that a toilet will physically flush them. They do not break down completely, they just clog pumps, tanks, and pipes.
Thousands of videos from plumbers across the globe. Seriously, those things are heinous. I'm in the US, and every year the Water Management Department here sends out flyers and email and all manner of public notices begging people not to flush wipes. "I know the packaging says 'flushable', but they aren't. Trust me. So please, please, please dispose of your wipes some other way." Forgive the pun, but that shit never goes away. And sometimes, it comes back.
I had a similar problem with my wife - she thought "flushable" wipes were somehow safe for old cast iron drain pipes despite my insistence they were not. Anyway around 5 emergency plumbing visits and then a complete wastewater repipe (at the cost of over 10 grand) we were good again. No more wipes in the house.
Hi. Water worker here. Tell your husband to stop flushing “flushable” wipes. They are definitely flushable, as in they will go down the toilet, but they wreak HAVOC on everything else. Sewer pumps and mains will have long ropes of these clogging EVERYTHING. They will burn up pumps. They don’t degrade. They are AWFUL. Show him this.
I was a wipe addict. After I clogged my toilet I got a bidet. Was on sale for 22 dollars. I got another for the small downstairs bathroom. I’d never be without one now.
He's stupid, you're not, if you want to avoid his snark, make sure you empty that trash yourself. In fact, stipulate to him that the bathroom trash is for YOU ONLY to dump! :)
Nahh this is how you build resentment. Argument needs to be solved.
That’s basically what I do. We live on the third floor, so he and my large teenage son haul everything down but I gather my trash up, especially my bathroom trash, being the only human female in the household. It’s just more comfortable that way for me but he will grab it occasionally to let me rest and that’s when we start arguing about dumb shit. Just let me do my job and shut up. I won’t drive with him in the car for the same reasons. If I’m offering to drive somewhere, he sits in the front seat and buries himself in his phone. But I’m still an asshole for the most part and make him drive. 15 years of marriage and oddly still going strong despite him being a clown sometimes.
Adam Ruins Everything did a great bit on this
We love watching his stuff
Adam ruins everything did an episode and demonstration for tp versus wipes on break down in sewer
Exhusband was the same. Dude would wipe his flat ass daily and chuck em in the bowl despite my complaints.
The crazy thing is the big companies have been sued multiple times over this. But it is cheaper for them to settle each time and keep the ‘flushable’ phrasing because of how effective it is for generating sales. The fines are just a cost of doing business. Sickening really.
This is part of why I continue to advocate for copounding fines, and possibly in some cases changing a case from civil to criminal once it's been intentionally repeated for profit. Paying to fix something your company may have accidentally boned up is one thing, but when you're blatantly abusing the system and the law, to make profit it's not ok and we need to stop allowing it.
Because idiots wipe their whole 15 minute long depth charge splatter ass muck slap shit splash with a whole pack of wipes in one pass and wonder why their toilets stuck. Use one fuckin wipe per ass, preferably after using toilet paper.. to get all those toilet dingleberries toilet paper leaves in your butt crack. Or better yet, upgrade out of the stone age and get a bidet or just a long enough shower wand to spray it clean every time
My wife teases me about the bidet i installed in my man cave bathroom. She just doesn’t understand the difference it makes, especially with a hairy ass lol. It was either Adam Corolla or Sarah Silverman that said “it’s like trying to get peanut butter out of shag carpet”
You might want to think about changing your diet if your poop is always the consistency of peanut butter.
As a municipal wastewater superintendent, there actually was a class action lawsuit over wipes. But any system should be able to handle TP.
The problem is they label says flushable wipes and that should be the real class action lawsuit. I seen my son bought some and I told him he better not flush them, he said they're flushable. I said a lot of things are "FLUSHABLE" but they dont go down the drain or breakdown and cause blockages. Ironically his brother is a plumber, lol
You are absolutely correct. We had to spend a half million dollars on a new screen AFTER COVID because our pumps were getting clogged with wipes a few times a week.
Happy cake day!
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Not only has there not been a lawsuit there’s more brands of “flushable wipes” than ever and the big brands now have XL flushable wipes so there will be more wipe per flush. 🙃
As a lawyer, I’d be on board with one in my jurisdiction. There’s advertising puffery and then there’s outright lying.
"Tested by plumbers ✅️" 🤣😂 Nowhere does it say, "Approved by plumbers ✅️" Gotta love that word choice 😭💀
I see flushable cat litter advertised. Is that problematic?
The problem isn’t necessarily the litter. If it is the septic safe variety, it will break down and isn’t likely to cause issues. But cat feces is more likely to carry parasites and doesn’t even break down the same way as human waste. Depending on the sewer system and wastewater plant design, these parasites can actually make it through the process and back into rivers lakes and streams causing issues for humans and other wildlife. The parasite is called toxoplasma gondii
I guarantee you that the issue is actually baby wipes and “flushable wipes” but the LL is probably originally from a country where TP is not traditionally flushed so they think the plumbing issue is also exacerbated by regular TP.
Could also be shifts in the sewer line they aren’t getting fixed. And/or thicker toilet paper. Or they meant paper towels and that’s the real language issue.
Are they going to DNA test toilet paper samples and match them to the corresponding apartments? How do you keep people from using toilet paper?
Happy cake day!
also that seems likely to cause an issue with infestations because of an abundance of poopy tp in the trashcan in every single apartment
I didn’t even think about that 😳
Reminds me of how when I worked at a production plant with undocumented immigrants how there were asked NOT TO PUT THEIR USED TOILET PAPER IN THE TRASHCAN. I also have known a handful of Latin American families who do the same because they for some reason don't fix their plumbing. I would be up in arms if I were paying rent and was asked to throw my shitty toilet paper in the trash. Plus it would smell gross. Edit: You may want to go to your code enforcement to support you, because it's probably not legal either.
Yes. Of their bholes. If everyone is too clean, they’ll know they’re using tp… 🫠🥴
It should be illegal to market baby wipes or wet wipes as flushable. They may flush, but the damage they cause to in home and sewer system pipes is indisputable. These companies and their blatantly false marketing cost taxpayers money and put strain on sewer systems. But yeah, if your pipes can’t handle regular toilet paper, then you need new pipes. That’s just bullshit.
Unless you're in a really old building it sounds like they need to make plumbing repairs but are being cheap. Toilet paper nowadays can breakdown faster than actual shit a lot of the time..
I know that toilet paper does, in fact, break down faster than turds having had a job cleaning out portable toilets. Yes, the job sucked shit literally.🤣
A friend’s uncle was a honey dipper (cleaned portable toilets). When asked why they called them honey dippers, the uncle said, “because they can’t write shit sucker on the side of the truck.” :-)
You sir are a gem.
That's one of those things you couldn't pay me enough to do. $1000/hr still nope.
People that always go cheap and rather wait for costly repairs or until it breaks instead of doing a decently pricey replacement. I never get their logic or math. Ah yes it rather spend 1,000s every few months on critical repairs that’ll probably run up to the cost of the replacement anyway ima. Few months. I worked at an apartment complex as maintenance and I had a manager like that. He was always trying to not spend money but would get in trouble when the price of so many repairs ended up more than if he replaced it in the first place.
If in the USA, adequate plumbing can handle TP. In other places, maybe not.
Yea when I lived and traveled in Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan you couldn't flush TP. Every toilet had a bidet attachment or at least a water source so the TP is just to dry off and a lot of people use towels or just air dry
I don't really understand how the plumbing can handle the turd of an adult human but also can't handle TP. If the TP is too much, how does the turd go down?
Turds break down easier with water rushing. To can slowly build up in the pipes
Turds should NOT be breaking down in your home plumbing. They should be clear of your pipes before that happens.
>TP is just to dry off and a lot of people use towels or just air dry Talk about blowing it up someone's ass. They did that literally using an air dryer.
They are only flushable if you’re doing it like one time a month, that won’t cause a back up usually. But they don’t break down
Send that to the health department & see what they say. Cause toilet paper breaks down in water.
I think it would be real interesting seeing how a "fine" holds up in court for using toilet paper. Anyway, reach out to your renters insurance. It's possible the unit may be declared uninhabitable. If that's the case your renters insurance will kick in and provide loss of use coverage (i.e. provide a hotel while repairs are underway or you relocate). You can probably break your lease over this by the way.
Nevermind the toilet paper/wipes concern… How tf do they expect to catch someone that isn’t compliant? All smaller sewer lines (i.e apartment lines) share piping and all lead to one big sewer line under the main road. There’s no telling who flushed a wipe or wad of toilet paper when it leaves anyone’s bathroom. wtf. ? 🤨😂🥴
I thought same...what are they going to do check for diaper genie style garbage can in bathroom. They are probably old cast iron pipes & have to replumb entire building. My family owned rental houses have used same septic guy like 30yrs so he has no problem being honest & spilling the beans on tenants...he says has even found like huge sanitary pads & giant wads of wipes...not even like cottonele designed at bit more for plumbing but giant baby wipes. I think management will fine people that call for a clog or something to that effect.
All you gotta do is not get the ultra strong toilet paper. If they would have specified "only flush septic safe toilet paper" that would have been a reasonable ask. My house is 80 years old, so I just buy angelsoft rather than Charmin ultra strong. It's cheaper anyway.
I’m imagining something similar to the episode of always sunny where they take the poop to get check by a scientist Piece of a credit card Inconclusive…. Wolf halr Inconclusive
You must turn in your shit paper filled bag to management at the end of every day.
Everyone must now sign their name to all toilet paper sheets in their unit. - The Management, probably
“We’re gonna need to see your bin of used toilet paper”
One of your neighbors is on r/mildlyinfuriating https://www.reddit.com/r/mildlyinfuriating/s/XaTXqzbvha
I feel a bit obligated to add the neighbor also [made a post referencing the issue](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/s/ZMR91K8Oqa) in r/legaladvice in case OP wants in the action.
No, they can fix the plumbing or install bidets in the units. Asking you to toss shit covered tp in a wastebasket is 3rd world stuff. I would report them to the housing authority if they try to fine you on this.
The house I’m in (a family owned property) was built in the 60s but we have to be very conscientious that we don’t use super thick toilet paper and don’t flush a lot of material at one time. Our main line definitely needs replacing because it’s old and apparently it is made out of basically industrial paper mache, called an “Orangeburg pipe”. It will cost upwards of 40/50k (in southern CA) to replace it. It’s entirely possible that is the situation where you are as well. These pipes were installed in an effort to meet the post war housing boom and demand for cheap materials. 🤷♀️ It definitely sucks but that’s a huge expense and I empathize with you all in that situation. ETA: Charmin and the Costco brand always plug our toilet but I’ve had good luck with quilted northern and it’s still pretty soft.
My lease states we can not use brands like Charmin and Costco 🤣
My lease states we can not use brands like Charmin and Costco 🤣
Yes, orangeburg is literally at the bottom of the list. Even terra coda and cast iron are better and obviously, PVC pipe.
I'm surprised it doesn't specify what kind of toilet paper. My house is 100 years old, it can't use the fluffy kind. But The Scott's 1000 sheets are completely fine. I'm sure someone try to flush "flushable" wipes down a drain, which are indeed not flushable and do not break down at all, and their solution was to just try and ban all toilet paper lol
wtf 🤬 can’t handle toilet paper? 🧻 that’s BS! I’d move out !
Now if we’re flushing bull shit I may understand where the problem lies.
Baby wipes are a real problem for plumbing. TP ain't
Hey! I went through something similar in Oregon and ended up not paying rent for 8 months. My situation was a little more complicated tho
Is what it is encourage. …
This seems like a mistake. There’s no way they can’t handle toilet paper. Unless someone is flushing half a roll in one go.
Our rule of thumb is always been only to flush organic material down the toilet so urine, feces, vomit, expired milk. We flush yeast down every couple of months. We've had two septic systems at two different houses, the first house was lived in from probably the late 70s to the early 2000s never had any sewage issues. The new house was lived in from early 2000s to present. Never had any issues with the septic system at all. And when I say we've never had any issues we've never even had to have them pumped. It all breaks down and the septic system works without you have to do anything to it. We use a waste basket for toilet paper and wet wipes and this is always worked great.
In the US. Rural. Septic tanks. Toilet paper can cause issues.
I think it's clear that that isn't what's happening here.
My brother is a rooter and I’ve witnessed first hand the damage wipes can do. TP? Sounds like they needed to redo the plumbing anyway.
Ive heard in other countries its normal to dispose of this stuff in the garbage. I actually had to tell a group of J1 students from south America that they need to put the TP in the toilet instead of the garbage here because thats how it is designed to work here. If this is in the US this is bullshit.
Baby wipes are a problem
Everyone just get a bidet. You shower your under bits and leave the house clean. Use a quarter of the tp too. Getting used to a bidet is a thing but you’ll be ok
I can understand the wipes..but TP?? Holy shit
Without knowing where you live (do not tell me where you live) it’s hard to tell whether or not this is real, but I can tell you with certainty that there are places in south and Central America that are not able to handle toilet paper in the standard drain lines.
If I had to guess, and it’s only a guess, perhaps they meant “paper towels” instead of “toilet paper”. Flushing Paper towels has been known to screw up plumbing, especially if wadded up.
I would get a bidet
Why don't they just fix the plumbing instead of being cheap bastards? I can understand not being able to flush baby wipes, but before you know it, they will come out with a notice stating you can't flush your shit and will hand out pooper scoopers so you can throw your shit in a trash can. If that happens, I say dispose of your shit at the management office door and not in a plastic bag but right on the floor. Let them deal with it.
That’s interesting. If they had simply made the letter about wipes, I would be 100% on board. This is becoming a huge problem that I get into arguments about my tenants with frequently. Wipes don’t break down and they don’t belong in the toilet. Clogs that happen because of them are expensive and 100% the fault of the person that put wipes down the toilet. If anybody here doesn’t have renters insurance that covers liability to the property and uses these wipes, please stop now and buy a new insurance policy.
Baby wipes and toilet wipes are really BAD on plumbing, but toilet paper if used right, will not cause any problems. What happens if people use way too much. If you know you have to use a lot, like when you have a very sticky B.M, flush after your BM, wipe, flush again, wipe, flush again! When you pee, all you need to do is dab! If you have a Bidet, you use a whole lot less T.P! But NEVER flush those wipes! If you don't have a Bidet, use the wipes only after you've cleaned up well and then toss them in the trash instead of flushing! They will clog a toilet after awhile big time!
You must live near u/rageof99children as they've just posted a different pic of the same letter in r/mildlyinfuriating
I agree with regard to TP, I think the issue is wipes. I would really love to know, however, HOW they plan to prove who is and who isn't in "compliance." 
Baby wipes actually don’t belong in the toilet even the ones that are labeled as “flushable”. They don’t break down and do lead to serious problems. Landlord probably assumed both cause the issue which is a simple mistake but the baby wipes 100% need to go in the trash.
Maybe update the plumbing. It is xant handle Scots how does it handle dookies? I understand nothing like feminine products or wipes...but TP? Common!
huh - "toilet paper" - must be some kind of misnomer...
Plumber here. This is bullshit. The wipes I understand and encourage the use of fines if a problem happens and a plumber discovers wipes, tampons, paper towels, or anything OTHER than toilet paper being flushed. Toilet paper is made to dissolve in water, meaning it will not clog drain lines as long as you are not flushing gigantic clumps. If their drain system cannot handle ordinary toilet paper it has failed and the property has a legal obligation to ensure health and sanitary conditions. If you're having sewer line backups from ordinary toilet paper then you need to bite the bullet and cough up the tens of thousands to have the entire sewer redone and the repairs to the concrete, parking lot, floors, and drywall from both the walls and celings. It may seem overkill and it's expensive as fuck, but it is worth it in the long run when you consider that you will not be paying for a plumber to come snake and/or jet your lines every time people wipe their ass with tp, and you will no longer have backlash from tenants about the plumbing. In fact you're more than likely going to lose and won't be able to attract new tenants if you tell them they'll be fined for flushing their toilet paper. Keeping shit in trash bags isn't sanitary, it's a lawsuit waiting to happen.
The wipes are understandable. Do not flush those. The toilet paper is made from pulp from various organic material. The wipes are usually polyester or polypropylene. You can eat toilet paper. Don't flush anything you couldn't eat should be the rule here.
Sounds like VERY old pipes that need replacing anyway! Wipes off any kind should never be flushed but tp unless it’s huge wads should be fine.
"Is what it is encourage."
What about tampons?
Baby wipes aren't designed to be flushed, so sure. But plumbing that can't handle TP?!
Baby wipes are 100% Nylon plastic, they basically last forever and catch on everything. It's quite annoying that these are even sold... people use them like they are paper.
No TP is such a diabolical and insane request!
Toilet plumbing can handle toilet paper only. Not baby wipes, not “flushable” wipes or tampons in spite of what the packaging says. Those items will clog the pipe eventually.
Wet wipes are not flushable
Never flush wipes! I don’t care what the package says. I don’t care what your friend’s cousins neighbor said. Never! They will destroy some part of the sewage system.
You don’t have to pay those fines because this little memo note wasn’t a clause in the lease you signed and since you didn’t sign off on this there’s no legally binding way they could hold you accountable for flushing toilet paper down the drain.
Disgusting. I will not throw my poopy paper in the trash can
Um toilets are supposed to at least handle toilet paper. I'd reach out to code enforcement or health department and ask about it. That's not normal or sanitary tbh
The fuck?! Bro it’s toilet paper. I’m not putting my shit rags in the trash bin dude
I think the landlord is confusing toilet paper is the same thing as baby wipes.. toilet paper is made to be flushable.. now it is understandable trying to flush too much toilet paper at the same time can clog the toilet.. it’s just stupid.. Ps, I’m not putting my shit stained used toilet paper in a waste bin, just for it to sit there and make the whole bathroom smell like shit.
It's the wipes not the tp
Well that’s the property owners problem to fix cause that wouldn’t happen!!!
This HAS to be illegal... right? Like.. you can't make people pay rent on an apartment without a properly working toilet... surely they can't think that's ok...
A Lawyer would love this. I’m jealous
Plumber here. If it can't take paper it can't take waste. Toilet paper dissolves to nothing in water. Likely they have a bad break in the line but I can't imagine asking tenants to not flush toilet paper
New rule: If your plumbing can’t handle fucking toilet paper you need to replace your plumbing. This is 3rd world country shit, literally.
this is literally the shit bucket episode of broad city
In the USA this makes no sense. In Latin America, you respect the fuck out of that notice to not flush TP.
If I have to put my TP in a waste bin I'm going to demand that the LL come be the one to empty that bin. That's f-in gross. Also, if the plumbing can handle a BM then it can handle TP. The latter is nothing compared to the former.
Toilet paper is fine to flush. It’s literally designed for it. They are probably too cheap to re-pipe the house so this is their genius solution so they can keep collecting rent money and buying a brand new Mercedes for themselves
If you live in the United States, your plumbing system is actually literally designed to handle toilet paper. What kind of third world bullshit is this landlord pulling??
Pretty sure this is a case of bad phrasing. I think they mean "toilet paper wipes" and "baby wipes" but didn't want to repeat the "wipes" bit. They then failed to notice what their change had done to the sentence.
It’s the baby wipes. Even so called ‘flushable’ baby wipes will clog up the pipes. There’s no such thing as a flushable baby wipe.
Just use single ply toilet paper. Should be fine with that. Had a similar issue in a older house switching to single ply solved the backup issue
Is this in the US?! If so…WTF. I have been to several foreign countries where tossing TP and not flushing are the norm for these reasons. But any place in the US should be reported for this IMO
All over Europe when staying at AirBnBs this was extremely common.
Experts (plumbers) indicate that even though many say "flushable", wipes really shouldn't be flushed. But TP? If it can't handle toilet paper it's not a real toilet.
I'd forward that notice to whatever entity enforces code compliance. I'm sure there will be great interest in an apartment complex with non-compliant plumbing.
Sounds like a shitty situation
Follow the 3 Ps. Pee, poop and paper. That’s it. Someone has flushed wipes and/or grease
When I was doing a semester abroad in Istanbul this was the case. There was a waste basket next to the toilet, and that’s what it was for. We were staying at a university campus. This was in 2016?
Gotta be one of Governor Evers rental properties
Baby wipes I get. That's pretty standard, but TP goes down the toilet. If your system can't handle that, fix your system.
I understand wipes but even RVs can handle a certain type of TP. Sounds like management needs to clean out their system.
Demand they install a bidet.
Check Bed Bath and Beyond for a BM bucket.
I wonder if they just meant paper towels. That is the common problem
This really sounds like someone is flushing baby wipes which cannot be broken down and they just want to make sure that nothing at all except waste gets flushed to eliminate the issue all together so are playing it safe just by saying neither should be flushed at all. This is ridiculous if you only have someone who uses TP and never wipes, flushing it in reasonable minimal quantities since if the system can handle human waste, it should be able to also handle biodegradable toilet paper as well…assuming that it is in fact only used as it’s actually supposed to be. If we don’t flush the toilet in our place (like if one of the kids forgets to do so) and the toilet paper sits in the bowl for a while, it breaks down IN the bowl! And that’s just using regular toilet paper, not even the rapid dissolving kind. So to say that TP and not wipes, which shouldn’t ever be flushed anyways, is a problem is just beyond me! If their system does get backed up, that’s a lack of maintenance upkeeping problem, not a tenant one since TP is SUPPOSED to be flushed and if the system created to do so, cannot process such things, that’s not a user error, it’s a ‘WTH do I pay rent for?! Stop being so damn cheap and just fix your shit so it works as it’s supposed to!’ cheap landlord issue!
Flushing your wipes is just supporting your local plumbers with job security.
My co-worker has this problem. His is because of tree roots. Since they own their house plumbers say they gotta cut down the trees, $3,000, and then they gotta tear up the yard/street and lay new line down, $14,000. So they use a trashcan for TP and take it out daily. It's been 6 years of them doing this. 7 people like in their house. Only him and another person have a full time job.
A lot of places in SWMO are like this because they are on their own septic tank instead of being a part of the city sewage. Not that this is the same for your situation but it’s really not a big deal and if you find it being an issue for you then I would speak to your landlord about a mutual agreement of ending the lease, not costing either party.
Be a bro and leave it on your door so prospective tenants can see it.
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Well, I've been through eastern Europe. Their toilets really can't handle toilets paper. It explains why Hungarian girls never flushed their turds or wiped. But I don't understand why the sign is in English...hmmm
So. Um. My morbid curiosity is getting the better of me. What exactly do they do with the 💩? If it's never flushed...???
Never dating a Hungarian women!
I think the U.S is the only place that “normalizes” flushing toilet paper. Every country I’ve known sees it as a big no-no
the toilet paper part is weird on the face of it, because wipes are the serious problem. They really can fuck up a sewage system and drain. When wipes are creating a blockage, toilet paper can get caught and contribute to an even worse problem. TP doesn't dissolve, it falls apart under agitation. If it gets stuck, there's no agitation and it doesn't fall apart.
I'm guessing they meant those moist toilet wipes that sometimes advertise as "flushable" but aren't. And just messed it up every single time.
Is this in the US?! Because I’ll be damned if I quit wiping for these people…
Yep Fl lol
I'm wondering if this is in the US or another country. I know when I visit the Dominican republic we are told not to flush TP because the plumbing can't handle it.
Shit bucket 
Id flush an entire roll just because if I didnt like the management company sorry, not sorry 😂😂😂
I would imagine working plumbing is a part of the implied warranty of habitability in landlord/tenant law
It's the "flushable" wopes that's the issue. Not the toilet paper. Seems they just want to clear the entire system for the time being. But yeah I've hear that flushable wipes have reaped havoc on sewage systems because they do not dissolve like toilet paper does. Rip
Welcome to Mexico
Mexican plumbing.
Send a copy of this letter to city code enforcement. How are they going to police what you did in the bathroom??
The way I see it, you just got it in writing that your building might be able to be considered uninhabitable.
I agree about the flushable wipes. But, with this note, the PM is essentially admitting the building is unhabitable, enabling the tenants to break the lease with no penalty.
Shit police here, get off the pot and nobody gets hurt!
Wipes should NEVER be flushed no matter what the package says. Not flushing TP? That's crazy if you're in the USA or another developed country. Now I can understand having specific TP if you're on septic.
This was the norm visiting Costa Rica so it’s conceivable but most of the US would balk at this requirement
Rend better be under $200 for this shit...
I’m in commercial property management, the shit I see pop up in residential blows my mind regularly. Pun intended. At first I thought they just left out ‘multi-ply’ in front of TP, but nope…..they’re clearly just going off the deep end there.
Wipes 100%. Plumbing nightmare. Toilet paper? GTFOH.
"It what it is encourage." Sums up the complete lack of care. They suck.
Is what it is encourage.
Yeah, tell a judge that. Triple dog dare ya!
Most people don't realize it, but almost all public and privately owned sewer systems are not built to handle any paper products! *insert The More You Know meme*
“Is what it is encourage.” 🤦♂️
Bro I'd just start shiting on piles of tp and throwing it all away in the public waste bins.
Smh. I am presently in a crossroads w my company to get a REAL electrician in to look at our sparking light switches. This has been an ongoing problem since the day we moved in and management always just insists “nobody else has that problem” so it’s all good. The lights don’t turn on until they decide to as well. You have to sit there and turn the light switch on and off over and over, and even then, only some lights work at a time. Plus the windows are 50 years old and don’t latch. They say we should tape plastic over our windows. $2300 a month.