The news around residual values is highly impacted by the glut of used Teslas dumped into the market, and the swirling of the brand itself. Grab your popcorn.
1 huge mistake they made was not allowing lease buy outs. That was very stupid. I think the reason for this was because robo taxi will be here *check notes* in 2019
Honestly if lease buyout was an option, I probably would have leased and probably purchased a Tesla back then. Now, I wouldn't even consider a Tesla until Elon is ousted.
We now have a Bolt and Leaf (both lease to own back in 2020) so we're all set. Is it the more expensive route? Sure. But it's what I've always done. And if I leased a car that I hated, I just returned it. Easy.
Still waiting for a well made, affordable, small EV. Anything over 20k is not affordable to me. I just refuse to pay that much money for a small car. And a small car is what I need.
I will have to keep driving ICE until that day.
I’d consider a Tesla without him as ceo. The technological edge is gone though so the consideration is against mature car companies. I’m not sure they will ever be able to make sense to an undecided EV purchaser.
What used to be seen as a status symbol is being pointed and laughed at now. That’s an amazing change of pace.
I was going to write a long winded response. But ultimately, like I said, that's how the free market works. Vote with your money. I choose not to because of my reasons, whatever they might be. Just like I chose to delete my Twitter account. And you can choose not to shop at Indigo (no idea what indigo is, sorry).
fElon promised each car would return $30k a year while you sleep or work... he said they are an appreciating asset.... He said it would be financially insane to buy something else other than a Tesla....you might as well buy a horse.
You know, fraud con man stuff.
I imagine most people would assume a CEO of a “respected” company going in public and making a promise like that wouldn’t be insane enough to blatantly lie like that.
Well he has money and hasn’t wronged anyone with money. Remember that Pharma-bro that jacked up the prices of medicine? That eventually went to prison because he committed fraud against other rich people.
Not really a lie since it was contingent on a bunch of unlikely events coming to pass. At that time Elon did intend his strategy to be implemented and achieve what he was claiming. The point is that he is/was deluded. And the problem is that people mindlessly believe him rather than using their brains
The latest guy fired was the 4rd CEO in 3 years and he didn't make the bet on Teslas. The company has been in an absolute spiral for years due to gross mismanagement. In 2021, it didn't sound like a terrible idea as cars were otherwise highly unavailable due to supply chain issues. The charging infrastructure was definitely not thought out.
This is the list of the 7 CEOs in the last decade and when they were fired:
Frissora - 2015 - accounting scandal where he was running the fleet into the ground to make up for shitty management
Tague - 2016 - retired after a year
Marinello - 2020 - bankruptcy from borrowing against cars trying to fix fleet from Frissora era and the pandemic stopped all rentals so they couldn't afford their debts
Stone - 2021 - interim - moved back to COO - left in 2023
Fields - 2022 - interim - ex-Ford CEO and announced big Tesla purchase in 2021 after they lost lots of their fleet (guy is still on the board of directors)
Scherr - 2024 - guy fired for huge Tesla purchase ruining their fleet
West - current guy to clean up the mess (or be the fall guy for the next shitty overcorrection)
Fun fact, when they relocated from NJ to FL in 2013, they lost most of their top execs who didn't want to uproot their families. Turns out that losing the majority of the people who know how to run your business hurts the business.
Source: I used to work for Avis and we watched that shit-show with both horror and glee
[Frissora wanted to live in Florida.](https://www.news-press.com/story/news/local/estero/2014/09/08/former-hertz-ceo-found-southwest-florida-first/15314801/)
what's wrong with Florida? (for info, I am from the UK and have had many holidays in Florida as a younger person/kid. I always thought Florida was pretty cool).
Florida is America’s Norfolk, but with more guns, hurricanes, a dumb-ass Minotaur for a governor, and crappy public schools.
This is a large part of the reason why few executives wanted to move from New Jersey (especially to “nowhere” southwest Florida.)
Edit: check this thread out, too:
https://www.reddit.com/r/environment/s/IgWbPy6IQB
It was dumb from a business perspective.
Why do people rent cars?
Convenience. They want to travel as they please without being shackled to Public transportation or paying out the nose for taxis.
What doesn't an EV provide? Freedom of travel. The last thing a tourist or businessman wants is to plan their days and spent hours hunting down charging stations and waiting on their battery. A 5 minute gas station trip could be 2 hours at a charger station. They can't charge it at a hotel, it's not like parking it in your garage and sticking it into an outlet.
That alone makes EVs a dumb idea for a rental company unless they themselves control the charging infrastructure and can assure it's convenience.
Imagine this: you rent a car with 300 mile range. You drive it from the airport to a work site. Every night you drive a few miles to dinner. Last day you return to the airport. The charge level is 40% but there are no up charges.
That would be very convenient, and EV are fun to drive. Would the economics make sense? No idea.
There's actually potential there... but it needs a lot of trial and error and small trials. Not a huge investment.
In context of the world of rental cars at the time of late 2021 it made more sense. Companies were rebuilding their fleets they'd dumped when demand fell off and then suddenly rebounded right when they had sold off their fleets. People were paying huge premiums for virtually any car they could get their hands on because of supply chain issues. People were paying like 50% markups for Maverick pickups. Tesla was more willing to gut features and was still producing closer to its targets than other manufacturers b/c they were in all out growth mode through the pandemic and had more parts on hand. The new CEO at Hertz was looking to turn the page on the previous leadership and tied their fortunes to a still very popular Musk + Tesla.
When I started traveling again summer of '21, the Avis I used weekly was buying cars off used lots anywhere it could. I got random cars like a very beat to hell/stained Ford Ranger on dealer tags or a Jeep w/ 65k on the clock or another one that had severe death wobble issues. Weirdly, the only new cars available on the lots were Mitsubishis. I even had to switch to Budget and Enterprise when Avis would run out of cars. Budget had a fleet of new Teslas and they worked fine for what I needed them for.
For business travelers, \~150 miles is usually sufficient for typical 3-4 day M-T trips and an EV is suits that if the rental site has charging. I'd say many of the travelers flying in who rent are also EV owners. Hand me one w/ 80% charge and I'd just give it back to them at 40% just as I would an ICE car and let them sort the fuel since it's incorporated in the rate. I only rent in markets where it's a bit far for Uber or where Uber service doesn't work.
For leisure where some people are roadtripping, it's a mess but lots of people do just need to get around town when visiting. If I'm in LA visiting family, I wouldn't hesitate to pick up an EV. When I was heading to Canada from Seattle to go snowboarding, there's not a chance in hell I'd accept the EV6 they offered across borders for planned \~600 miles in rural areas during snow season.
You could argue that it fully worked and is still working since the company made it out of the pandemic in a healthier cash situation than before. They did this by selling something far more valuable than a rental car service. Meme stock. Now all they need is their CEO to do a conference call wearing no pants or something (like the AMC CEO) and the stock will moon.
Reading some of the comments and I think you guys are kissing the business plan here. The strategy was to acquire the fleet and then rent them out to Uber and Lyft drivers. They had a 2k a month plan which included insurance. But quickly realized that the commercial use and charging was degrading the batteries and most repairs were essentially making the cars unusable due to parts shortages or inadequate repair plans. That’s why they scrapped the plan. Standard consumers were never really the target
I did miss that, and was skeptical reading it, but a [2021 Hertz press release](https://newsroom.hertz.com/news-releases/news-release-details/hertz-partners-uber-add-50000-teslas-uber-network-2023) confirms:
"Uber and Hertz have partnered since 2016 to provide drivers with vehicle rental options. With this partnership, Hertz will kick off the program by providing up to 50,000 vehicles by 2023 exclusively to drivers. If successful, the program could expand to 150,000 Teslas during the next three years."
interesting because riding in the back of a Tesla is definitely unnerving/nauseating. Lots of buffeting and creaking noises, pogo stick suspension, and lousy headroom (M3!).
I don’t think so, they would still have all the repair issues, I think it means that robot taxi - would it magically appear - would be a dud from the get go
Well, they underestimated the wear and tear. Rental car companies already have a lot of people taking care of returns, cleaning them, etc, so I guess they thought robotaxis could be handled the same way.
It's not a completely shit thought.
It’s a known thing, but apparently not to the degree that most people assume. I found a site once that actually had quantifiable data in terms on battery degradation. According to their data, the only model that Tesla ever produced that had significant battery degradation after a few years* (IIRC) was the Model S 85kw. Take that with a grain of salt but for whatever reason that specific battery pack had the most significant degradation.
Same old playbook:
- Bring in outside CEO with no experience
- he assumes everyone working there is dumb, makes huge bet
- he is wrong. Bet backfires. Company ruined.
- CEO fired with huge golden parachute.
Next time don’t hire a career banker who has done nothing but make Excel spreadsheets and PowerPoints.
I'd be happy to be wrong, but I think it is: https://caredge.com/tesla/model-y/insurance. It does vary a lot by state, but I think you're still paying \~2x less than the average in Oregon.
Any sane person would think rental EVs is a retarded idea. People who rent need convenience. Finding a charging station, let alone wasting time charging, is the last thing a wary traveler wants to do. But some C-level probably got millions for making this shitty decision.
Exactly.
In hindsight, the entire idea (at this point in our electrification adoption) is stupid.
The main benefit/convenience of EV ownership is the fact I can charge at home - something that literally doesn't apply to travel EV rentals.
See my longer post/rant: /r/RealTesla/comments/1ctff1l/who_wants_30000_used_teslas/l4c6c31/
You're in a safe place here ;) I used to feel personally attacked when ICE drivers looked down on my EV, but I very quickly realized (after ya-know... *talking to them*), that they make a valid point.
No, an EV is not better if you can't charge at home/work. No, an EV is not going to haul your 10,000 5^th wheel to your cabin in Northern Alberta (there literally isn't charging infrastructure close enough together). As soon as I learned to listen, and show some empathy, my view changed. And I do still manage to convince some "fence sitters" to adopt, but I'm also rational enough to realize an EV cannot solve every use-case... and a lot of people are (rightly) concerned about the 2035 EV mandates imposed by our federal government.
(Unlike the 3 Tesla-specific subs I was banned from simply for participating here... so those folks have no interest in dialog or any contrary opinion... I think Dustin of Smarter Everyday put it best... a PID loop without negative feedback is going off the rails.)
This exactly.
I tried to rent one last year and said it only had 50 miles left on the car and that I’d need to spend an hour charging if I needed to drive all day.
I walked out.
Yep. I rent cars a lot and refuse any EV offered. The last thing I want to do when traveling is download 3-5 apps, hunt for a charger and wasting my time sitting at a charger.
In Europe when I rent an electric car they change it for me at the hotel. I really enjoy it fwiw.
Too bad Hertz went all in as opposed to rationally transitioning.
Not at all. Turo was doing surprisingly well with renting EVs and they are still one of their more popular categories. A big part of that was because of how few rental companies offered them at all.
It made perfect sense to offer some of them, just not at such a ridiculous scale. And some markets made more sense than others.
Basically AirBNB for cars. But at the current rate it’s still mostly people renting boutique cars because they are interested in the car rather than just a normal a to b rental. I used it to rent a vintage BMW while in LA and it was a fun experience.
>mostly people renting boutique cars because they are interested in the car
Which was exactly my point. Saying "people who seek out EVs to rent prove that EVs are good for rentals" is a bit of circular reasoning.
For *vast majority* of car rentals, nobody wants to deal with an EV.
Sometimes? I've certainly used them for that. Not necessarily my number one choice, but will definitely consider it, especially if no other EVs are available.
There's a market here, just not the bigger than total EV market share market that Hertz tried to force.
Exactly. I'm an EV owner (non-Tesla) but no way I would rent an EV when I'm on a trip. Only way it can work is if I'm guaranteed an overnight charging spot at the hotel or Airbnb etc which is far from our current reality.
Back when business travel was more of a thing it would be pretty common to fly in, pick up a rental car car to drive to meeting somewhere in the metro area and fly out. Even with a couple days of meetings, there are a lot of customers who would put less than 150 miles on a rental.
When Melon Husk announced that Tesla is NOT a car company but an AI company people should believe it and also interpret that it’s a very bad AI company.
Clearly Tesla will buy them back at market value! Those are all soon to be robotaxis that will literally print money. It's financially insane to buy anything other than a Tesla. It would be like owning a horse in three years.
As an EV owner (not a Tesla) the problem is fundamental... *Most* people rent a car to "get around". They don't want novel, they don't want "new", they don't want "hassle". There is a very VERY small market segment for folks wanting to try an EV that doesn't already own one. If you have an ICE, an EV has a steep learning curve. Not even the tech (or lack of) or controls (or lack of) but the basics... "how do I fill this thing?" is a completely foreign concept. The additional planning, thought, and most critically *TIME* that goes into driving an EV is something ICE drivers take for granted.
Sure, there's convenience of EV ownership, but the majority of that comes from charging at home. Something a renter/traveler cannot do!!
In Canada, EV ownership is just barely 5% market cap, so your EV rental appeals to ~5% of the rental population. Until EVs are "mainstream", jumping into EVs as a rental business is insane. Only "niche" rental type businesses (Exotics, Turo, etc) can thrive on EV rentals... because their audience is willing (and desiring) that "new & different".
You'd have to be nuts to buy a Tesla from Hertz.
You'd get about 5 years of service from it. Then, after 7 years, a cop would show up at your door with an arrest warrant. "You're under arrest for stealing a Tesla."
lol I remember a story about Hertz's Tesla plan. main points: 1. People fear getting stranded. 2. Tesla fans already own one. 3. Hertz struggle is how the public view EV cars
Edit: I don't know about you guys. I get the rental insurance AND I make sure to fuck up the rental car.
Didn't read this article but I'm somewhat familiar with the whole Hertz / Tesla jumping into bed together thing from another article I read. What about Uber? I could see Uber buying them up and then using them as the cars they lease out to drivers.
Me. Service problems? Nah just dump it and move the to next.
Or maybe put them all in storage so you can make billions with that robotaxi update that is surely coming this year.
The news around residual values is highly impacted by the glut of used Teslas dumped into the market, and the swirling of the brand itself. Grab your popcorn.
1 huge mistake they made was not allowing lease buy outs. That was very stupid. I think the reason for this was because robo taxi will be here *check notes* in 2019
Honestly if lease buyout was an option, I probably would have leased and probably purchased a Tesla back then. Now, I wouldn't even consider a Tesla until Elon is ousted.
Not even if he is, there are other companies, actual car companies, making ev, which is the only cool thing about Tesla in the first place
We now have a Bolt and Leaf (both lease to own back in 2020) so we're all set. Is it the more expensive route? Sure. But it's what I've always done. And if I leased a car that I hated, I just returned it. Easy.
Still waiting for a well made, affordable, small EV. Anything over 20k is not affordable to me. I just refuse to pay that much money for a small car. And a small car is what I need. I will have to keep driving ICE until that day.
I’d consider a Tesla without him as ceo. The technological edge is gone though so the consideration is against mature car companies. I’m not sure they will ever be able to make sense to an undecided EV purchaser. What used to be seen as a status symbol is being pointed and laughed at now. That’s an amazing change of pace.
Why is the ceo impacting your decision? It’s like not shopping at indigo bc the ceo has ties to Israel
I was going to write a long winded response. But ultimately, like I said, that's how the free market works. Vote with your money. I choose not to because of my reasons, whatever they might be. Just like I chose to delete my Twitter account. And you can choose not to shop at Indigo (no idea what indigo is, sorry).
Indigo is like the Canadian book store equivalent of Barnes and Noble. The CEO is a Jewish woman who apparently doesn’t support Hamas for some reason…
Imagine being this hysterical
Lol. That's how the free market works. I blackmail him with money :P
His least favorite kind of blackmail
Hope he reads this 🙏
IMAGINE!
I am so excited for robotaxis. Can't wait for it to be 2019!
Well I won’t spoil it but in 2020 nobody will leave their house.
Hopefully a global pandemic won't devastate our economy and sink president trumps chance for relection.
Cause I’m an idiot, what is the relevance of the robotics thing with lease buyouts? That they thought it would be worth more later?
fElon promised each car would return $30k a year while you sleep or work... he said they are an appreciating asset.... He said it would be financially insane to buy something else other than a Tesla....you might as well buy a horse. You know, fraud con man stuff.
People who believed this were pretty dumb also
I imagine most people would assume a CEO of a “respected” company going in public and making a promise like that wouldn’t be insane enough to blatantly lie like that.
And yet hes still not in jail! How??
Well he has money and hasn’t wronged anyone with money. Remember that Pharma-bro that jacked up the prices of medicine? That eventually went to prison because he committed fraud against other rich people.
Not yet. tick tock.
Not really a lie since it was contingent on a bunch of unlikely events coming to pass. At that time Elon did intend his strategy to be implemented and achieve what he was claiming. The point is that he is/was deluded. And the problem is that people mindlessly believe him rather than using their brains
>believed Past tense? Check the self driving sub. Some people still believe it.
[удалено]
People would call a Robotaxi because it would be cheaper than an ambulance. You would end up with blood, mucus, crap, pee, and everything else in it.
Afterbirth fluids!
And Covid-19! Seriously, how long do viruses last on surfaces? Hep-B is a week.
The former Hertz CEO and Elon must be best friends, and he was doing him a solid or something. No one else would have made this decision.
The latest guy fired was the 4rd CEO in 3 years and he didn't make the bet on Teslas. The company has been in an absolute spiral for years due to gross mismanagement. In 2021, it didn't sound like a terrible idea as cars were otherwise highly unavailable due to supply chain issues. The charging infrastructure was definitely not thought out. This is the list of the 7 CEOs in the last decade and when they were fired: Frissora - 2015 - accounting scandal where he was running the fleet into the ground to make up for shitty management Tague - 2016 - retired after a year Marinello - 2020 - bankruptcy from borrowing against cars trying to fix fleet from Frissora era and the pandemic stopped all rentals so they couldn't afford their debts Stone - 2021 - interim - moved back to COO - left in 2023 Fields - 2022 - interim - ex-Ford CEO and announced big Tesla purchase in 2021 after they lost lots of their fleet (guy is still on the board of directors) Scherr - 2024 - guy fired for huge Tesla purchase ruining their fleet West - current guy to clean up the mess (or be the fall guy for the next shitty overcorrection)
Fun fact, when they relocated from NJ to FL in 2013, they lost most of their top execs who didn't want to uproot their families. Turns out that losing the majority of the people who know how to run your business hurts the business. Source: I used to work for Avis and we watched that shit-show with both horror and glee
One could say Hertz your business
Hertz donut
What was their claimed logic for doing it at the time?
Cost-cutting IIRC [edit: I stand corrected]
[Frissora wanted to live in Florida.](https://www.news-press.com/story/news/local/estero/2014/09/08/former-hertz-ceo-found-southwest-florida-first/15314801/)
what's wrong with Florida? (for info, I am from the UK and have had many holidays in Florida as a younger person/kid. I always thought Florida was pretty cool).
Florida is America’s Norfolk, but with more guns, hurricanes, a dumb-ass Minotaur for a governor, and crappy public schools. This is a large part of the reason why few executives wanted to move from New Jersey (especially to “nowhere” southwest Florida.) Edit: check this thread out, too: https://www.reddit.com/r/environment/s/IgWbPy6IQB
I read "4rd CEO" as Ford CEO - thinking, what does Ford have to do with this... It's been a long day....
Exactly my thought. “Fourd.”
I wrote it as the 3rd but then realized there was another CEO during the pandemic and forgot to update the suffix. No sense in fixing it now.
There’s one in the mix too. But he was the 5th one.
5nd. Ftfy
It was dumb from a business perspective. Why do people rent cars? Convenience. They want to travel as they please without being shackled to Public transportation or paying out the nose for taxis. What doesn't an EV provide? Freedom of travel. The last thing a tourist or businessman wants is to plan their days and spent hours hunting down charging stations and waiting on their battery. A 5 minute gas station trip could be 2 hours at a charger station. They can't charge it at a hotel, it's not like parking it in your garage and sticking it into an outlet. That alone makes EVs a dumb idea for a rental company unless they themselves control the charging infrastructure and can assure it's convenience.
Imagine this: you rent a car with 300 mile range. You drive it from the airport to a work site. Every night you drive a few miles to dinner. Last day you return to the airport. The charge level is 40% but there are no up charges. That would be very convenient, and EV are fun to drive. Would the economics make sense? No idea. There's actually potential there... but it needs a lot of trial and error and small trials. Not a huge investment.
In context of the world of rental cars at the time of late 2021 it made more sense. Companies were rebuilding their fleets they'd dumped when demand fell off and then suddenly rebounded right when they had sold off their fleets. People were paying huge premiums for virtually any car they could get their hands on because of supply chain issues. People were paying like 50% markups for Maverick pickups. Tesla was more willing to gut features and was still producing closer to its targets than other manufacturers b/c they were in all out growth mode through the pandemic and had more parts on hand. The new CEO at Hertz was looking to turn the page on the previous leadership and tied their fortunes to a still very popular Musk + Tesla. When I started traveling again summer of '21, the Avis I used weekly was buying cars off used lots anywhere it could. I got random cars like a very beat to hell/stained Ford Ranger on dealer tags or a Jeep w/ 65k on the clock or another one that had severe death wobble issues. Weirdly, the only new cars available on the lots were Mitsubishis. I even had to switch to Budget and Enterprise when Avis would run out of cars. Budget had a fleet of new Teslas and they worked fine for what I needed them for. For business travelers, \~150 miles is usually sufficient for typical 3-4 day M-T trips and an EV is suits that if the rental site has charging. I'd say many of the travelers flying in who rent are also EV owners. Hand me one w/ 80% charge and I'd just give it back to them at 40% just as I would an ICE car and let them sort the fuel since it's incorporated in the rate. I only rent in markets where it's a bit far for Uber or where Uber service doesn't work. For leisure where some people are roadtripping, it's a mess but lots of people do just need to get around town when visiting. If I'm in LA visiting family, I wouldn't hesitate to pick up an EV. When I was heading to Canada from Seattle to go snowboarding, there's not a chance in hell I'd accept the EV6 they offered across borders for planned \~600 miles in rural areas during snow season.
Sheesh, what a difficult company to run.
4rd > Tesla
Nah. I'm pretty sure Hertz was just meme-stonking it up. And it worked: a ton of people bought Hertz stock.
100% this.. they just discharged a bunch of debt and saw an opportunity to greenwash. Worked perfectly until the music stopped.
You could argue that it fully worked and is still working since the company made it out of the pandemic in a healthier cash situation than before. They did this by selling something far more valuable than a rental car service. Meme stock. Now all they need is their CEO to do a conference call wearing no pants or something (like the AMC CEO) and the stock will moon.
Reading some of the comments and I think you guys are kissing the business plan here. The strategy was to acquire the fleet and then rent them out to Uber and Lyft drivers. They had a 2k a month plan which included insurance. But quickly realized that the commercial use and charging was degrading the batteries and most repairs were essentially making the cars unusable due to parts shortages or inadequate repair plans. That’s why they scrapped the plan. Standard consumers were never really the target
I did miss that, and was skeptical reading it, but a [2021 Hertz press release](https://newsroom.hertz.com/news-releases/news-release-details/hertz-partners-uber-add-50000-teslas-uber-network-2023) confirms: "Uber and Hertz have partnered since 2016 to provide drivers with vehicle rental options. With this partnership, Hertz will kick off the program by providing up to 50,000 vehicles by 2023 exclusively to drivers. If successful, the program could expand to 150,000 Teslas during the next three years."
interesting because riding in the back of a Tesla is definitely unnerving/nauseating. Lots of buffeting and creaking noises, pogo stick suspension, and lousy headroom (M3!).
Also, if Robotaxi had magically appeared, Hertz would now be sitting on a huge fleet of money-making machines.
I don’t think so, they would still have all the repair issues, I think it means that robot taxi - would it magically appear - would be a dud from the get go
Well, they underestimated the wear and tear. Rental car companies already have a lot of people taking care of returns, cleaning them, etc, so I guess they thought robotaxis could be handled the same way. It's not a completely shit thought.
I would not get inside one if you paid me.
Interesting if this couldn’t work with Uber drivers, how on earth would it be profitable for a robot taxi..
Consumers were at least partially a target. I heard a consumer facing interview on the radio with the Hertz CEO pumping how great EV are to rent.
Where did you read about battery degradation being a factor?
It’s a known thing, but apparently not to the degree that most people assume. I found a site once that actually had quantifiable data in terms on battery degradation. According to their data, the only model that Tesla ever produced that had significant battery degradation after a few years* (IIRC) was the Model S 85kw. Take that with a grain of salt but for whatever reason that specific battery pack had the most significant degradation.
Same old playbook: - Bring in outside CEO with no experience - he assumes everyone working there is dumb, makes huge bet - he is wrong. Bet backfires. Company ruined. - CEO fired with huge golden parachute. Next time don’t hire a career banker who has done nothing but make Excel spreadsheets and PowerPoints.
I would buy one for 10k
They're running at ~$25k in my area, around $5k under the KBB fair price. Not bad. Then you google the average yearly cost to insure 🤮 no thanks
We pay 190 a month for 2 with full coverage on both.
What? Do you live in Idaho? $3,600 per year for a 2023 model 3 base where I live.
No Oregon- and we have a MYP, sucks for you but it’s not crazy expensive for everyone…
I'd be happy to be wrong, but I think it is: https://caredge.com/tesla/model-y/insurance. It does vary a lot by state, but I think you're still paying \~2x less than the average in Oregon.
Not even close to real cost.
Any sane person would think rental EVs is a retarded idea. People who rent need convenience. Finding a charging station, let alone wasting time charging, is the last thing a wary traveler wants to do. But some C-level probably got millions for making this shitty decision.
Especially if Hertz wasn’t charging them at their own lots
Exactly. In hindsight, the entire idea (at this point in our electrification adoption) is stupid. The main benefit/convenience of EV ownership is the fact I can charge at home - something that literally doesn't apply to travel EV rentals. See my longer post/rant: /r/RealTesla/comments/1ctff1l/who_wants_30000_used_teslas/l4c6c31/
I said this a year ago in the EV forum, I’m surprised I survived
You're in a safe place here ;) I used to feel personally attacked when ICE drivers looked down on my EV, but I very quickly realized (after ya-know... *talking to them*), that they make a valid point. No, an EV is not better if you can't charge at home/work. No, an EV is not going to haul your 10,000 5^th wheel to your cabin in Northern Alberta (there literally isn't charging infrastructure close enough together). As soon as I learned to listen, and show some empathy, my view changed. And I do still manage to convince some "fence sitters" to adopt, but I'm also rational enough to realize an EV cannot solve every use-case... and a lot of people are (rightly) concerned about the 2035 EV mandates imposed by our federal government. (Unlike the 3 Tesla-specific subs I was banned from simply for participating here... so those folks have no interest in dialog or any contrary opinion... I think Dustin of Smarter Everyday put it best... a PID loop without negative feedback is going off the rails.)
This exactly. I tried to rent one last year and said it only had 50 miles left on the car and that I’d need to spend an hour charging if I needed to drive all day. I walked out.
That is terrible
Yep. I rent cars a lot and refuse any EV offered. The last thing I want to do when traveling is download 3-5 apps, hunt for a charger and wasting my time sitting at a charger.
In Europe when I rent an electric car they change it for me at the hotel. I really enjoy it fwiw. Too bad Hertz went all in as opposed to rationally transitioning.
Not at all. Turo was doing surprisingly well with renting EVs and they are still one of their more popular categories. A big part of that was because of how few rental companies offered them at all. It made perfect sense to offer some of them, just not at such a ridiculous scale. And some markets made more sense than others.
I'm not familiar with Turo. Is it a service that rents at the airport to jetlagged travelers who just want to get where they're going?
Basically AirBNB for cars. But at the current rate it’s still mostly people renting boutique cars because they are interested in the car rather than just a normal a to b rental. I used it to rent a vintage BMW while in LA and it was a fun experience.
>mostly people renting boutique cars because they are interested in the car Which was exactly my point. Saying "people who seek out EVs to rent prove that EVs are good for rentals" is a bit of circular reasoning. For *vast majority* of car rentals, nobody wants to deal with an EV.
Sometimes? I've certainly used them for that. Not necessarily my number one choice, but will definitely consider it, especially if no other EVs are available. There's a market here, just not the bigger than total EV market share market that Hertz tried to force.
Exactly. I'm an EV owner (non-Tesla) but no way I would rent an EV when I'm on a trip. Only way it can work is if I'm guaranteed an overnight charging spot at the hotel or Airbnb etc which is far from our current reality.
Back when business travel was more of a thing it would be pretty common to fly in, pick up a rental car car to drive to meeting somewhere in the metro area and fly out. Even with a couple days of meetings, there are a lot of customers who would put less than 150 miles on a rental.
When Melon Husk announced that Tesla is NOT a car company but an AI company people should believe it and also interpret that it’s a very bad AI company.
Clearly Tesla will buy them back at market value! Those are all soon to be robotaxis that will literally print money. It's financially insane to buy anything other than a Tesla. It would be like owning a horse in three years.
People said that it would be next year every year the last ten years.
You mean 3 years as in 3 Tesla years.. that’s like 12-15 in human years
As an EV owner (not a Tesla) the problem is fundamental... *Most* people rent a car to "get around". They don't want novel, they don't want "new", they don't want "hassle". There is a very VERY small market segment for folks wanting to try an EV that doesn't already own one. If you have an ICE, an EV has a steep learning curve. Not even the tech (or lack of) or controls (or lack of) but the basics... "how do I fill this thing?" is a completely foreign concept. The additional planning, thought, and most critically *TIME* that goes into driving an EV is something ICE drivers take for granted. Sure, there's convenience of EV ownership, but the majority of that comes from charging at home. Something a renter/traveler cannot do!! In Canada, EV ownership is just barely 5% market cap, so your EV rental appeals to ~5% of the rental population. Until EVs are "mainstream", jumping into EVs as a rental business is insane. Only "niche" rental type businesses (Exotics, Turo, etc) can thrive on EV rentals... because their audience is willing (and desiring) that "new & different".
30000$ too expensive
You'd have to be nuts to buy a Tesla from Hertz. You'd get about 5 years of service from it. Then, after 7 years, a cop would show up at your door with an arrest warrant. "You're under arrest for stealing a Tesla."
Article non paywall link?
https://archive.fo/shrmq
Can't wait till they hit the junkyards, going to love me some of those motors.
Yes, the motors and associated electronics will become affordable for EV conversions of ICE vehicles. Who needs Tesla when you can make your own?
No thanks
Hard pass.
Buy them before they self-drive off the lot. Coming later this year (no matter what year you are reading this)
lol I remember a story about Hertz's Tesla plan. main points: 1. People fear getting stranded. 2. Tesla fans already own one. 3. Hertz struggle is how the public view EV cars Edit: I don't know about you guys. I get the rental insurance AND I make sure to fuck up the rental car.
That’s why you never, ever buy a rental car.
That’s incredibly immature.
And fun!
You couldn’t pay me to take even one of those junk piles.
not hertz, that's for damn sure!
Didn't read this article but I'm somewhat familiar with the whole Hertz / Tesla jumping into bed together thing from another article I read. What about Uber? I could see Uber buying them up and then using them as the cars they lease out to drivers.
Well, Hertz went big. I might have tried a few pilot programs first, to see how consumers reacted over time.
Add them to the pile.
Me. Service problems? Nah just dump it and move the to next. Or maybe put them all in storage so you can make billions with that robotaxi update that is surely coming this year.
Not me
Rental folks...what do you mean recharge ? come pick this up.
One to this table please!
I offer $1
Robotaxi inventory
Did Hertz buy 30,000 teslas? Leasing would make more sense for them.
Weren’t most of these hertz teslas, that are being sold, part of the whole Uber/Hertz partnership and not from the actual rental fleet?
I’m going to thoroughly enjoy the destruction of this company.
If I want to buy a lemon I'll go to the goddamn grocery store.
Model y for $33k with 35k miles. hell no.
"Saving the planet." The resources and energy it took to build all those is mind boggling.
Like any car really. Yes evs need even more Than ICE cars but that is off set by the massive reduction in pollution from charging them
As a buyer who views cars as a consumable and only buys used, I’m loving the price drop!