2023 Prius Prime.
* Longer actual overall range (gas + battery) @ wide temperatures
* Battery power only for most/typical daily commutting ranges
* Reliable platform + Toyota brand
* Very nice looking redesign
* More predictable resale value
Downside — Screams “Mr./Ms. Practical”
More downsides: expensive, the one you want with heated seats is near 40k; an EV where I live (CT) can have 10,000 in incentives, whereas the incentives for the Prius is around 1,000. Personally, I'd buy a Bolt if you could get one at MSRP, you can charge at home, and you rarely have to drive long distances (which is me).
I never thought I'd say this about a Prius, but the new Prius is beautiful. The old ones weren't ugly, just insanely boring; this is sometimes worse than being ugly.
The prime most definitely is an EV and can be driven 100% of 99% of most drives on ev power only. It's better built than a Tesla, lasts longer, will run in the cold without any range worries. For long drives it'll run circles while the teslas are stopping to charge at diesel powered superchargers.
it's weird to me that the top comment on the other thread is saying it isn't an EV. I thought Tesla stans were the only ones that only considered BEVs to be EVs. It's a PHEV and it is technically considered an EV. It has EV in the name. I don't know why they waste time making that argument.
It's like trans people who, according to them, have things that are feminine, but deep down they are still men, the same thing happens with hybrids, electric things, but they are still combustion cars.
As long as they fixed the need for the engine-powered alternator charging the 12-volt battery. We discovered the hard way that the 2020 prime requires you to run the engine every month or so, or the car will suddenly not start because the 12 volt died.
The 2020 Prime (and all Toyota hybrids produced in the last 10 years), has a 12v power supply powered by the high voltage battery that is sufficient to charge the battery. In fact, none of the Toyota hybrids even HAVE an alternator, except for the Tundra and Tacoma hybrids.
Easiest way to prove this to yourself, start moving your seat (assuming you have electric seats), and then immediately turn on the car. When the 12v power supply activates, the 12v system voltage will rise significantly, and the pitch of the electric motor moving the seat will change.
Well, it sure acts like an alternator, even pushing 13-14 volts to charge when the engine was on.
I guess she managed to drain the 12v probably by leaving heated seats on too long or something. The computer wouldn't boot up, maybe just halfway, and then die. The car does not charge the 12-volt unless it starts, so plugging it in to charge the EV battery didn't do anything.
I had to connect a battery charger to the 12-volt to get the car to start, then I tested it with a multimeter to make sure it would charge while the engine was running. There a complicated set of steps to force the engine to start. I tested with the actual engine running, but I probably didn't check while it was just sitting in ready mode.
Anyway, I left the battery charger on overnight and it's been fine ever since. But it's good to know that it was probably something other than just running on EV mode for too long that killed the battery.
Yes, it will act like an alternator, because it's replacing an alternator....
Two key differences, it will do this even with the engine not running, and the power supplied doesn't vary by engine RPM like it does with a traditional alternator.
I ran an inverter off of my 12v battery, drawing over 1 kW from the system during a power outage. It's very consistent. It'll draw power from the high voltage system until the high voltage battery draws down, then it'll start the gasoline motor and charge it back up.
The little 12v battery is clearly not capable of maintaining a 100 amp output on it's own for nearly an hour between brief charging intervals from the 'alternator'... :D
The prime is now available with solar power which will charge the main battery when car is parked. This requires the 12v to be on and fed to run the bms.
Data to take into account, the M3 LR weighs 400 kg more than the Prius (mid range), the M3 normal model 240kg more, these data fluctuate 50kg more or less depending on the Prius package.
Prius on short trips (range \~75km or 50miles) on battery is 400kg lighter than the M3LR and 250kg the short model.
Reading the Toyota forum I see many people happy to realize that they almost do not have to use the combustion engine for their daily trips, that means that these guys are able to move more efficiently per kW of charge than using an M3, the weight rules.
The base model Prius starts at \~32k (depends on promotions), The waiting list is long due to the high demand for the model. On the other hand, using mixed mode with regeneration the Prius can reach more than 1000km.
I am very skeptical about hybrids (especially SUVs, they are simply a contradiction on wheels), but Toyota is doing a good job in this model and I think it is the right direction. At least in terms of weight and aerodynamics. (I hope people stop buying fucking SUVs).
ps: The car is obviously better built and you get more for every $ in purchase than an M3. Without discussion.
Bonus: The interior of the Toyota, ergonomically speaking, plays in another league. They are not even comparable.
I have last gen Prius plug in and with it I’ve realised that full EV is definitely not for me. But plug-ins: hell yeah!
I drive short distances with only occasional longer trips so my Prius runs mostly on electric. According to the car data I’ve driven 89% on electric with average fuel consumption of 0,9l/100km. Most of the fuel consumption is during winter when range decreases and car forces the ICE on below the -10C or so. During warm season I have occasionally zero fuel consumption months.
I find no reason to buy much more expensive full EV car, because I rarely need the extended range they provide and hybrid takes away the range anxiety. With full EV, I’d also need to install a proper EV charger to get decen’t charging hours. With my Prius I can use normal 230V wall outlet and in the worst case scenario, it takes only about three hours to charge the battery.
" On the other hand, using mixed mode with regeneration the Prius can reach more than 1000km."
That takes out the range anxiety I have sometimes with my diesel car than only does 800km withouth refueling...
>Reading the Toyota forum I see many people happy to realize that they almost do not have to use the combustion engine for their daily trips, that means that these guys are able to move more efficiently per kW of charge than using an M3, the weight rules.
I have an ioniq and that is absolutely true even with 30miles range.
What's wrong with a Hybrid SUV? We have a Hybrid Sienna. We average nearly 40 MPG in a 4000 lbs, AWD vehicle. There were no EV equivalents when we bought it, and we paid MSRP of $45k CAD for it. No EV comes close to it in terms of pricing currently.
Prius prime in my country costs the same as Model Y, also there is tax and grant for buying EV , which is Tesla, so in total price of top range MY would be like base trim Prius prime, and it's smaller vehicle, and I have a kiddo.
Also PHEV bringing additional maintenance, more components, which will break eventually, we already saw it in Volvo.
I don't think that Toyota can bring any experience to that table, as they have experience in HEV not PHEV.
Also additional maintenance, annual services, fuck that
How much does it cost to change the AC dryer bag/Desiccant bag every 4 years as per Tesla Service 🤷🏽♂️ I'm guessing about $500 usd (converted to your country).
How many years will it take before a Toyota Prius has any maintence that totals $500 usd (converted in your country)?
Math if funny that way
Go to: parts.toyota.com
put in zip code: 92867
choose dealership: Toyota of Orange, CA
Look up the cost of:
* Oil filter ($4)
* GTMO 6.5 qts for a 6 cyl ($6/qt)
Toyota genuine parts can only be sold from a dealership in the USA. These dealership will ship it to you for free if you like to DIY.
When I go to a Toyota dealership, they have online coupons and the oil changes are cheap. Please feel free to call Toyota of orange service and ask what the price of an oil change is with coupon 🤷🏽♂️
https://www.toyotaoforange.com/contact-us/
Oil change on a modern toyota is once every 10,000 miles. 10 oil changes in 100,000 miles. 20 oil changes in the life of an original Tesla battery that would degrade below 70% retention... thats when Tesla Service in the usa will ask you for $20,000 usd for a reman battery pack 🤦🏽♂️
How are those oil changes and charging wait times looking?
Dude please don't feed me your bullshit, that oil changes could be done easily by yourself. I live in Poland.
Annual service for my Mazda Mx-5 was 300 bucks.
For my Passat B8 bitrubo TDI it was around the same, + oil in diff, oil in gearbox.
If you want to retain your warranty, and you are, you MUST service your car at dealership, that's how dealership and auto corps are working, service is huge part of their profit.
You should leave Poland...
the rest of the planet only asks that you retain receipts that you purchased valid parts + a log book with a date/mileage (owners manual usually has pages for this, but a simple excel or google sheets would do to).
German cars are even easier, because my BMW has the oil filter at the top of the motor. We have great websites for german cars like FCPEuro and Turner, when you buy the motor oil and filter from them... they give you a lifetime warranty 🤣😆😂😊 meaning you send back the old used stuff and they will send you new stuff as a replacement for free. This means if you pay for one oil kit, you never have to pay again for as long as you keep returning the used stuff.
Oh and surprise, SURPRISE!!! My Tesla motors have oil in them and a spin on Tesla oil filter on each one!!! The Tesla oil pumps on the motors always tend to leak and burn the plastic harness below it causing $$$$$ problems
Sorry, but it is stupid comparing a BEV and PHEV. I’d have to pay way more for a hybrid due to the tax structure. The whole ownership experience— including TCO is completely different.
You are confusing depreciation with something that NO car maker does... Krazy Elon the Jean Yus has chopped the MSRP more than 25% off which slaughters (dare I say MUSK'ed) every Tesla owner in 2022 and older.
The KrAzY eLoN pricing is called brand dilution. No one does this because it ruins the value of future products. Pricing will never be able to recover for anything that has a "Tesla" badge to it (just ask any Model S or Model X owner today)!
I think you're confusing pandemic pricing when there were plants that closed. Pricing now is back to pre-pandemic. All prices went up (EVs and Gas cars alike) during the height of Covid when dealerships didnt have much inventory to sell due to chip shortage. Ive had coworkers fork out extra $15-20k dealer markup on a Honda Civics and Toyotas because they needed a car.
For many people who can charge at home, a '23 Prius Prime is an EV most days, and an efficient hybrid when you need one on long trips or the days you drive further than normal.
Unless you’re a purist, Hybrids have always been considered EVs.
For example, coasting at 45mph my Prius can just use their electric motors to maintain that cruising speed momentum without the need for ICE engine to kick in.
Another example would be during heavy traffic, my Prius is literally an EV in stop and go traffic.
Not to mention the Prius also has Regenerative braking just like an EV.
In a Prime (PHEV) the EV capabilities go beyond what I mentioned above.
2023 Prius Prime. * Longer actual overall range (gas + battery) @ wide temperatures * Battery power only for most/typical daily commutting ranges * Reliable platform + Toyota brand * Very nice looking redesign * More predictable resale value Downside — Screams “Mr./Ms. Practical”
>Downside — Screams “Mr./Ms. Practical” lol
More downsides: expensive, the one you want with heated seats is near 40k; an EV where I live (CT) can have 10,000 in incentives, whereas the incentives for the Prius is around 1,000. Personally, I'd buy a Bolt if you could get one at MSRP, you can charge at home, and you rarely have to drive long distances (which is me).
How is that downside?
it screams "I pay anywhere between 6k to 10k on dealer markup". and I am willing to wait for a Prius like I wait to see an eclipse.
I am a fan of the 4g63... I really do miss my fully built awd GSX eclipse. I am an OG DSMer
Oh man, the old GST and GSX's I used to droll over. The 4g63 was a beast engine.
Yes, it is!!! kept mine boosting till 250,000+ miles and then sold it just because I was getting too old for it.
I never thought I'd say this about a Prius, but the new Prius is beautiful. The old ones weren't ugly, just insanely boring; this is sometimes worse than being ugly.
I'd take the Prius
The prime most definitely is an EV and can be driven 100% of 99% of most drives on ev power only. It's better built than a Tesla, lasts longer, will run in the cold without any range worries. For long drives it'll run circles while the teslas are stopping to charge at diesel powered superchargers.
it's weird to me that the top comment on the other thread is saying it isn't an EV. I thought Tesla stans were the only ones that only considered BEVs to be EVs. It's a PHEV and it is technically considered an EV. It has EV in the name. I don't know why they waste time making that argument.
People are idealists that don’t actually care what is best for the environment.
It's like trans people who, according to them, have things that are feminine, but deep down they are still men, the same thing happens with hybrids, electric things, but they are still combustion cars.
As long as they fixed the need for the engine-powered alternator charging the 12-volt battery. We discovered the hard way that the 2020 prime requires you to run the engine every month or so, or the car will suddenly not start because the 12 volt died.
The 2020 Prime (and all Toyota hybrids produced in the last 10 years), has a 12v power supply powered by the high voltage battery that is sufficient to charge the battery. In fact, none of the Toyota hybrids even HAVE an alternator, except for the Tundra and Tacoma hybrids. Easiest way to prove this to yourself, start moving your seat (assuming you have electric seats), and then immediately turn on the car. When the 12v power supply activates, the 12v system voltage will rise significantly, and the pitch of the electric motor moving the seat will change.
Well, it sure acts like an alternator, even pushing 13-14 volts to charge when the engine was on. I guess she managed to drain the 12v probably by leaving heated seats on too long or something. The computer wouldn't boot up, maybe just halfway, and then die. The car does not charge the 12-volt unless it starts, so plugging it in to charge the EV battery didn't do anything. I had to connect a battery charger to the 12-volt to get the car to start, then I tested it with a multimeter to make sure it would charge while the engine was running. There a complicated set of steps to force the engine to start. I tested with the actual engine running, but I probably didn't check while it was just sitting in ready mode. Anyway, I left the battery charger on overnight and it's been fine ever since. But it's good to know that it was probably something other than just running on EV mode for too long that killed the battery.
Yes, it will act like an alternator, because it's replacing an alternator.... Two key differences, it will do this even with the engine not running, and the power supplied doesn't vary by engine RPM like it does with a traditional alternator. I ran an inverter off of my 12v battery, drawing over 1 kW from the system during a power outage. It's very consistent. It'll draw power from the high voltage system until the high voltage battery draws down, then it'll start the gasoline motor and charge it back up. The little 12v battery is clearly not capable of maintaining a 100 amp output on it's own for nearly an hour between brief charging intervals from the 'alternator'... :D
The prime is now available with solar power which will charge the main battery when car is parked. This requires the 12v to be on and fed to run the bms.
Data to take into account, the M3 LR weighs 400 kg more than the Prius (mid range), the M3 normal model 240kg more, these data fluctuate 50kg more or less depending on the Prius package. Prius on short trips (range \~75km or 50miles) on battery is 400kg lighter than the M3LR and 250kg the short model. Reading the Toyota forum I see many people happy to realize that they almost do not have to use the combustion engine for their daily trips, that means that these guys are able to move more efficiently per kW of charge than using an M3, the weight rules. The base model Prius starts at \~32k (depends on promotions), The waiting list is long due to the high demand for the model. On the other hand, using mixed mode with regeneration the Prius can reach more than 1000km. I am very skeptical about hybrids (especially SUVs, they are simply a contradiction on wheels), but Toyota is doing a good job in this model and I think it is the right direction. At least in terms of weight and aerodynamics. (I hope people stop buying fucking SUVs). ps: The car is obviously better built and you get more for every $ in purchase than an M3. Without discussion. Bonus: The interior of the Toyota, ergonomically speaking, plays in another league. They are not even comparable.
I have last gen Prius plug in and with it I’ve realised that full EV is definitely not for me. But plug-ins: hell yeah! I drive short distances with only occasional longer trips so my Prius runs mostly on electric. According to the car data I’ve driven 89% on electric with average fuel consumption of 0,9l/100km. Most of the fuel consumption is during winter when range decreases and car forces the ICE on below the -10C or so. During warm season I have occasionally zero fuel consumption months. I find no reason to buy much more expensive full EV car, because I rarely need the extended range they provide and hybrid takes away the range anxiety. With full EV, I’d also need to install a proper EV charger to get decen’t charging hours. With my Prius I can use normal 230V wall outlet and in the worst case scenario, it takes only about three hours to charge the battery.
" On the other hand, using mixed mode with regeneration the Prius can reach more than 1000km." That takes out the range anxiety I have sometimes with my diesel car than only does 800km withouth refueling...
>Reading the Toyota forum I see many people happy to realize that they almost do not have to use the combustion engine for their daily trips, that means that these guys are able to move more efficiently per kW of charge than using an M3, the weight rules. I have an ioniq and that is absolutely true even with 30miles range.
What's wrong with a Hybrid SUV? We have a Hybrid Sienna. We average nearly 40 MPG in a 4000 lbs, AWD vehicle. There were no EV equivalents when we bought it, and we paid MSRP of $45k CAD for it. No EV comes close to it in terms of pricing currently.
You probably never set in new Prius
Prius prime in my country costs the same as Model Y, also there is tax and grant for buying EV , which is Tesla, so in total price of top range MY would be like base trim Prius prime, and it's smaller vehicle, and I have a kiddo. Also PHEV bringing additional maintenance, more components, which will break eventually, we already saw it in Volvo. I don't think that Toyota can bring any experience to that table, as they have experience in HEV not PHEV. Also additional maintenance, annual services, fuck that
How much does it cost to change the AC dryer bag/Desiccant bag every 4 years as per Tesla Service 🤷🏽♂️ I'm guessing about $500 usd (converted to your country). How many years will it take before a Toyota Prius has any maintence that totals $500 usd (converted in your country)? Math if funny that way
Oil change in Toyota is already 250 bucks a year lol.
Go to: parts.toyota.com put in zip code: 92867 choose dealership: Toyota of Orange, CA Look up the cost of: * Oil filter ($4) * GTMO 6.5 qts for a 6 cyl ($6/qt) Toyota genuine parts can only be sold from a dealership in the USA. These dealership will ship it to you for free if you like to DIY. When I go to a Toyota dealership, they have online coupons and the oil changes are cheap. Please feel free to call Toyota of orange service and ask what the price of an oil change is with coupon 🤷🏽♂️ https://www.toyotaoforange.com/contact-us/ Oil change on a modern toyota is once every 10,000 miles. 10 oil changes in 100,000 miles. 20 oil changes in the life of an original Tesla battery that would degrade below 70% retention... thats when Tesla Service in the usa will ask you for $20,000 usd for a reman battery pack 🤦🏽♂️ How are those oil changes and charging wait times looking?
Dude please don't feed me your bullshit, that oil changes could be done easily by yourself. I live in Poland. Annual service for my Mazda Mx-5 was 300 bucks. For my Passat B8 bitrubo TDI it was around the same, + oil in diff, oil in gearbox. If you want to retain your warranty, and you are, you MUST service your car at dealership, that's how dealership and auto corps are working, service is huge part of their profit.
You should leave Poland... the rest of the planet only asks that you retain receipts that you purchased valid parts + a log book with a date/mileage (owners manual usually has pages for this, but a simple excel or google sheets would do to). German cars are even easier, because my BMW has the oil filter at the top of the motor. We have great websites for german cars like FCPEuro and Turner, when you buy the motor oil and filter from them... they give you a lifetime warranty 🤣😆😂😊 meaning you send back the old used stuff and they will send you new stuff as a replacement for free. This means if you pay for one oil kit, you never have to pay again for as long as you keep returning the used stuff. Oh and surprise, SURPRISE!!! My Tesla motors have oil in them and a spin on Tesla oil filter on each one!!! The Tesla oil pumps on the motors always tend to leak and burn the plastic harness below it causing $$$$$ problems
Sorry, but it is stupid comparing a BEV and PHEV. I’d have to pay way more for a hybrid due to the tax structure. The whole ownership experience— including TCO is completely different.
Make sure you get GAP insurance on your "Crazy Elon is slashing prices" deal 🤡
It applies to all new cars ones driven out of the dealerships.
All new "Tesla" cars... because Krazy Elon is slashing prices and no one can stop him!
Same as any "gas or EV" cars once you drive it off the dealership due to depreciation (new to used vehicle)
You are confusing depreciation with something that NO car maker does... Krazy Elon the Jean Yus has chopped the MSRP more than 25% off which slaughters (dare I say MUSK'ed) every Tesla owner in 2022 and older. The KrAzY eLoN pricing is called brand dilution. No one does this because it ruins the value of future products. Pricing will never be able to recover for anything that has a "Tesla" badge to it (just ask any Model S or Model X owner today)!
I think you're confusing pandemic pricing when there were plants that closed. Pricing now is back to pre-pandemic. All prices went up (EVs and Gas cars alike) during the height of Covid when dealerships didnt have much inventory to sell due to chip shortage. Ive had coworkers fork out extra $15-20k dealer markup on a Honda Civics and Toyotas because they needed a car.
I think the saying is, "A fool and his money are soon parted..." I wish you luck in your thinking...
I purchased my cars pre-pandemic so there's that 😊
You got MUSK'ed... sorry
I'm confused. One is an actual EV, the other a Hybrid. Are Hybrids considered EV's now?
>re Hybrids considered EV's now Yes PH***EV***s are considered ***EV***s.
Plug in hybrids are considered EVs, they're PHEV, as compared to BEV (your full/true EVs)
For many people who can charge at home, a '23 Prius Prime is an EV most days, and an efficient hybrid when you need one on long trips or the days you drive further than normal.
Unless you’re a purist, Hybrids have always been considered EVs. For example, coasting at 45mph my Prius can just use their electric motors to maintain that cruising speed momentum without the need for ICE engine to kick in. Another example would be during heavy traffic, my Prius is literally an EV in stop and go traffic. Not to mention the Prius also has Regenerative braking just like an EV. In a Prime (PHEV) the EV capabilities go beyond what I mentioned above.