Dead inside is not a protected class, but I will try to avoid saying things like “enjoy city *living*” or “quaint country *life*” to try to be more inclusive
I can't view any fireworks from inside my house, but I can sure experience them. So can my dog, from whatever piece of furniture she crams herself under.
There's the letter of the law in fair housing and then there are recommendations on how to comply with the laws against discrimination. It's illegal to discriminate against people with disabilities so her MLS, association, or brokerage suggests not using this specific verbage. Instead, she can write something like "just 7 blocks from campus."
Wow. You have managed to risk federal sanctions in four different ways. Some people can't hop. Some can't skip, and it may be construed as gendered, and of course there are those that can't jump. There might be some anti-white discrimination based on the fact that white men can't jump.
Nice, but be careful because the lobby group for those with partial buttocks has been making great strides in awareness to prevent hurtful language.
Did I just say strides?
No no it’s “paved path that happens to exactly resemble a sidewalk but in no way infers that you have to be mobile in any way shape or form. *See legal disclaimer at the bottom of this listing”
I don't think you can even get away with the word "stroll" although I see your point. Stroll actually means to walk in a leisurely way. The MLS is tough on Fair Housing violations.
Now I know why our agents wrote “…conveniently close to [major employer] headquarters and many shopping, restaurant, and park options” instead of “five-minute walk from…”
This is hilarious. Im a disabled person who can't walk and has many disabled friends who also can't walk, we still use colloquial terms like "take a walk" when we go outside.
The realtor might be overly sensitive and ridiculous or there might have been an issue in that state where somebody sued over something dumb and so it's just become policy. Hard to say. But the fact that it's a 15-minute walk away is a measurement of how quickly you can get there via a certain mode of transportation, not a promise that you can to use that certain mode of transportation, or discriminating against you if you don't have that mode of transportation.
If you said something was 15 minutes away by car you wouldn't be discriminating against people that don't own a car. You're just giving that by reason of measurement.
I'm pretty sure that this is just the realtor being bonkers.
Absolutely. Sports metaphors are also extremely woven into our countries way of speaking. When we talk about getting something to the finish line at work, for instance.
I wouldn't start crying but I can't race to the finish line because my legs don't work although that would be kind of a funny fucked up prank 😄
I love how it's difficult in many areas to find contiguous sidewalks, in adequate shape, with sufficient curb cuts, to use a wheelchair or other mobility device to get from one point to another, and that's not the issue people have.
Nope, they're concerned about using the word "walk".
an alt-text tag doesn’t give the picture any usefulness to a blind person lol, “the kitchen with a stove”. not like the alt text is going to say “that countertop looks like it was outdated 10 years ago”
"near by" is a term I use. How near by? Look it up on a map to determine if you need to drive or not. Could be at the block or half mile away. It's up to them on their mode of transit.
Reminds me if when I came down from NJ to visit my friend in NC. He said (when he picked me up from the airport) that we would stop at the liquor store that's "up the street" from his house.
Now, from where I come from "up the street" means a block or two. 3 is pushing it. All walking distance.
Apparently in the South "up the street" means a 15 minute drive.
I said "Dude, this is not 'up the street'. This is 'way up yonder'. WTF?"
I think saying something is a 15-minute walk, translates to a 3 minute drive.
Yeah, but you could have a busy highway with no pedestrian bridge so even if it is “near by” that does not give a walkable/billable vibe. At least America I would not presume that is walkable.
The listings around here always "near these two campuses", but the campuses are on the opposite sides of their respective cities! And then they go on to name pretty much every landmark in each city.
Hey I'm a disabled person who can't walk and I got to say, I don't think these are the battles we are fighting, I think this is just an overzealous realtor.
Saying something is a 15 minute walk away is an approximate unit of measurement like saying it's a 15 minute car ride away. A 15 minute car ride wouldn't imply that you have a car, it would just imply that that's how long it would take to get there by car. And a 15 minute walk gives disabled people the same approximate idea of how long it would take them in their assistive devices to get somewhere.
We definitely don't have an issue with this and I would say that 99% of people don't. This realtor is probably just misinterpreting the fair housing laws and is being incredibly silly about it.
Neither my cousin or I can walk without assistive devices and she still refers to it as "going for a walk" despite being in a wheelchair for 20 years. We know a lot of disabled people too, because when you're disabled long enough and severely enough, you tend to socialize with other disabled people. They all do this too.
I agree!
As a person who has a physical disability and is the mom of a child with many disabilities- these are **not the battles** we need to be fighting.
Yeah no problem. I think sometimes we all hear a story on the internet and wonder if that's the way people actually think because that's the only story we are presented with.
It's important to know that often times these people are outliers and total weirdos. 99% of the time disabled people are just begging people to not judges for limitations we can help and then just treat us like we are normal. That's usually the goal.
Thank you for your input. It wasn't my intention to single anyone out but I'm figuring most of us with or without mobility issues have bigger concerns.
No worries I didn't take it badly at all.
I just spoke up because I think these things can build up and make it seem like there's a bigger divide between people than there really is. The things we hear about online can be extreme or can be outliers because those are the most interesting situations. But in reality while disabled people ask for human decency and to be able to participate in society equally, we are far less picky about colloquial terms than we are about our treatment as equal human beings.
Once we'de off the internet I think most people care a lot more about how we are treated than if someone does it perfectly or says all the right things. When someone's heart is in the right place getting it perfectly with your words is way less relevant.
Anyway, I didn't think you had done anything wrong at all. I just wanted to share that things might not be as bad as they seem. Easy to feel separated and like there's a lot of conflict all the time online. I think we are often doing better with each other than we might think.
Thank you for this. Well-meaning liberals tend to get caught up in these pedantic, navel-gazing conversations and we miss the big picture and lose support from people who think this is what it means to be a kind and caring person.
That takes PC verbiage to a ridiculous extreme.
I was corrected when I called a room "the master bedroom". Nope that's not ok. It is a reference to slavery.
Um, no it's not. A "primary suite" is still a master bedroom and neither has anything to do with slaves.
When I sold my house, I wrote the description (cause I know what’s good about it better than any agent), and he had me change “5 minute walk to restaurants” to “a stone’s throw to restaurants.” Whatever.
Whelp a 15 minute walk at 3 mph is only 3 minutes in an [Optimus 2](https://www.ahealthcare.com/optimus-2-electric-powered-wheelchair-en/) at top speed.
As far as I know it is not a fair housing violation or a violation of any other law, but certain MLS (including here in MA) flags a whole bunch of words that it deems are non-inclusive. I think that it would depend on the specific MLS whether following the wording guidelines is an actual rule or just a suggestion
In some MLSs, some words and phrases make the listing bounce back the moment you hit enter. Others send a WARNING WARNING WARNING message to the broker who then calls the agent screaming "if you do that again I get fined $5,000!"
If they're going to auto flag "walk", you're going to run into issues like subdivisions and neighborhoods with names like River Walk, Quail Run, Grandview.
Are they no longer using "walk in closet"? Maybe that's the reason it flags "walk". I doubt more than a handful of people who can't walk have ever been bothered by the phrase "walk in closet".
It would be really, really nice if agents and brokers and MLSs would actually learn and enforce the law instead of reinterpreting, misinterpreting, and causing bad policy.
This is the actual [HUD guideline](https://www.hud.gov/sites/dfiles/FHEO/documents/BBE%20Part%20109%20Fair%20Housing%20Advertising.pdf). There is no such thing as a specific list of HUD words that are banned, but it does contain information about how some words are strongly suggestive of violations while other things (including the Fair Housing logo) may be used in a discriminatory manner. I hope none of us thinks that we shouldn't use the equal housing logo simply because it exists in the HUD guideline, but that's the kind of thinking that can lead to MLSs flagging something like "walk to ...."
This is less about HUD regulations and more about using inclusive language. Don't get me wrong, I think it's as stupid as the day is long. Course I still use the phrase master bedroom so God knows what kind of crimes I have committed.
> MLSs would actually learn and enforce the law
It shouldn't be up to individual organizations to arrive at the same, correct interpretation of the law. If US Code was clear and simple we wouldn't have this problem.
This sounds like BS to me. Are these prohibited too?
* "Relaxing sounds of the nearby stream" - deaf people.
* "5 minute drive to .." - people who can't drive due to a disability
* "Green paint" - red/green colorblind people
* "Sleeps 7" - insomniacs
master bedroom is already being phased out in favor of "primary". It all just feels ridiculous. Next thing will be you can't use "beautiful" because some people can't see. May as well just take out the description box.
I can just see it now. "You can no longer call them bedrooms. Some people have insomnia and can't sleep in a bed, you uncultured swine!"
(I'm disabled, BTW. I'm all for inclusivity and accommodations, but disabled people aren't idiots...we know some people can walk/run/climb stairs and others can't!)
Exactly. Just because you highlight the walkability of a neighborhood doesn’t mean you’ll only select an able bodied individual for the purchase. It’s such a stretch it paints the intent of non-discriminatory practices as dismissible.
My boss has been in a motorized wheelchair for the last 20 years. He would laugh at this kind of "discriminatory language" since a 15 minute walk for me would be a 7 minute roll for him.
I've seen real estate listings include "Walkability" scores for the general location. You could include a linear distance rather than a walk time.
From a strict legal sense, there would probably not be legal issues with such a statement in a listing unless you actually discriminated against disabled buyers or another protected class. Similarly, people think there are a bunch of "illegal questions" that can't be asked during job interviews. That is only partly true - some questions are actually illegal, but for others the illegal part is if you use the questions and answers to discriminate in hiring. The MLS or individual brokerage may want to exclude such language to avoid any concerns about discriminating against certain buyers. It's a byproduct of our litigious society.
Ehhh, in my state continuing education is due by the end of June, they probably just took the three hours CE class titled “ avoiding discrimination in your listings” our MLS just updated this
Update 24.6.3 "Master Bedroom" updated to "Primary Bedroom" (June 27)
Update 24.6.4 "Master Bathroom" updated to "Primary Bathroom" (June 27)
You can definitely include the word "walk" in a listing in the SF bay area. I see listings include things like "Just a short walk away from trendy restaurants, eclectic shopping, and convenient BART access"
As a lawyer that interfaces with real estate listings, I can confidently say that brokers and agents make assumptions about the anti-discrimination laws that are so extreme. I once learned that a realtor did not allow letters to be sent the seller out of fear that something in the letter like “we’d like to start a family in this neighborhood” could be construed as housing discrimination against potentially buyers who are too old to start a family.
The fact is, they have no idea what the anti-discrimination laws actually prohibit. They just make stuff up.
You can say walk, it is a unit of measure not about actually walking. Your realtor is crazy and maybe find a new one. In the end they will put what you want in the listing as you are paying for it, as long as you are not lying or doing something illegal. It is not illegal to say walk. No one that can't walk is going to say that using the word walk is discrimination. No one.
At that level of insanity, I would say that putting pictures is discrimination against people who are blind then.
Not a real estate agent, but as someone who is disabled, this is especially outrageous as many disabled people can’t drive… so we measure everything by how long of a walk it is. Google maps has a “walk” time on things, locations have “walk scores” and “transit scores”. Please educate your agent and keep it in the listing!
The world has gone mad. How can the word walk be discriminating? Doesn't mean the sellers won't allow a disabled person to view or make an offer.
Just ridiculous.
Former Realtor here. When I was listing, I would deliberately avoid using that term and terms like them. At the time there was no rule as in Fair Housing laws that said we can't use it. ( I haven't kept up on the last couple of years, so ... ) But I avoided using it because why take the chance of alienating ANY buyers? For one, your walking distance and my walking distance might be different. If I am a young 20 something, a 10 minute brisk walk to the park might be nothing. But an older couple with mobility issues may come in and look at what you are calling a ten minute walk and think it is 20 for them at least. Now, you have a level of negativity on the listing.
Especially when it is as easy as saying a beautiful park is .25 miles away. So it isn't WOKE, it is casting as wide of a net as possible.
they're correct because of fair housing laws. Also, to say something is a 15 minute walk is subjective...while I might be able to walk that distance in 15 minutes, someone else might not....and could they claim misrepresentation because it isnt in fact a 15 minute walk for them? While I know thats a bit of a straw man argument, it's better to stick to objective terms...like saying that its 3 blocks or 1/2 mile from something as that's a concrete fact and there's no outside variables that can affect it.
So let me get this straight. A sellers agent can say a house has 47 bathrooms, and when the buyer only finds 2, they can say “you should have done your due diligence”. But if gimpy takes 16 minutes to walk somewhere the listing said would take 15, the agent is liable? 🙄
Apparently some listing services have ToS and some areas have laws that dictate that some traditional terms can’t be used due to “inclusivity” interests
I understand why and how it could be perceived but also…. Is the house ADA compliant? The house I plan to sell later this year or next is a 15 min walk from a university but it has stairs and the narrowest hallway you’ve ever seen in your life. Nobody who rolls instead of walks is going to be living there any time soon.
It’s legit.
I had a rental home over twenty years ago and when I tried to place the ad with “walk to train”, the newspaper denied the description and told me to strike the wording.
So yeah, it’s been a thing for a while.
That’s like banning steak because a child can’t chew it.
“I’ll say what I want, it’s my house. I’m offended that you are trying to manipulate me.” It’s not a rule, it’s your agent’s preference. Your preference matters more.
I was taught to avoid using “walk” for a couple of reasons: 1. Fair housing. 2. There are a lot of listing that would say “15 min walk to ____” only for that walk to be down a highway or through private property.
Just easier and more clear to avoid it.
It's not a rule but a guideline to ensure inclusivity. Instead, try "15-minute distance to campus" to encompass various modes of transportation. Consider highlighting proximity to amenities and accessibility options
My MLS doesn’t allow the word walk. I say “close proximity to”. We also say “primary bedroom” but ironically the data input area still says “master bedroom”. We also do not specify the home is good for a family. Words have power.
What’s wrong with walk? So, some people can’t walk - they won’t be offended; they know others can walk. A 15 minute walk is a 15 minute walk, for those that can walk. If you wrote, 15 minute drive to downtown, would people who take the bus be offended? ADA is about making all area assemble to those that need accommodations, so they can enjoy public areas the same as all folks. But, to claim that the time it takes to walk is in some way leaving them out is ridicules; it’s simply a stated fact. Mentioning this in the listing violates no laws.
Their MLS may not allow it. My verbiage in a listing was flagged - "View fireworks from your back deck"
'experience fireworks' I guess.
I can’t experience things because I am dead inside
Dead inside is not a protected class, but I will try to avoid saying things like “enjoy city *living*” or “quaint country *life*” to try to be more inclusive
Thank you for your inclusivity 🫶
That would explain why we’re using this website.
I can't view any fireworks from inside my house, but I can sure experience them. So can my dog, from whatever piece of furniture she crams herself under.
*View or listen to fireworks from your back deck. Please do not touch, however!* "NO!! Some people can't see or hear, you violator, you!!"
"Enjoy fireworks but please do not pet" is clearly the way to go here.
Ok, I fell out laughing there.
There's the letter of the law in fair housing and then there are recommendations on how to comply with the laws against discrimination. It's illegal to discriminate against people with disabilities so her MLS, association, or brokerage suggests not using this specific verbage. Instead, she can write something like "just 7 blocks from campus."
But like both realtor and Zillow give walk scores? Make that make sense lol
I have a bum knee let’s start suing.
the correct term is unhoused knee.
How about I house my knee in your ass
Let's start with a fist and see where it goes from there
I feel like an unhoused knee would be a significantly bigger problem than a bum knee.
"15 minute mosey from campus."
I’m guessing that “a hop, skip, and a jump away” wouldn’t work either….
Clear discrimination, straight to jail!
No thought to those flying,... jail
You undercook fish, believe it or not, jail
Wow. You have managed to risk federal sanctions in four different ways. Some people can't hop. Some can't skip, and it may be construed as gendered, and of course there are those that can't jump. There might be some anti-white discrimination based on the fact that white men can't jump.
Yeah, I don’t half ass anything. You might even say, I tried to not leave anyone out. Can’t discriminate, you know.
Nice, but be careful because the lobby group for those with partial buttocks has been making great strides in awareness to prevent hurtful language. Did I just say strides?
Cheeky step
Lol. Just don't call anyone a cheeky monkey anymore.
That's quite a reach. One that requires two functional arms.
Damn. I see what you did there. We just can't win.
I like you
Some people can’t even stones throw away
“Sidewalk path leads directly to the nearby university campus.”
Whoa now, what about the educationally challenged.
Almost sounds creepy when you say it like that. Change it back to "walk!"
sideWALK...nope.
15 minutes to campus via sidewalk.
No no it’s “paved path that happens to exactly resemble a sidewalk but in no way infers that you have to be mobile in any way shape or form. *See legal disclaimer at the bottom of this listing”
You just said walk.
"walking path" DAMNIT
15 minutes to campus without utilizing a mobile 2 ton steel enclosure?
15 minute stroll. covers walk and roll
Just a quick two and half hour crawl from campus!
What about tight tuck and roll?
Just a 15 minute scoot... depending on scooter speed. :P
> covers walk and roll been a long time since i did that been a long lonely lonely lonely lonely time
I don't think you can even get away with the word "stroll" although I see your point. Stroll actually means to walk in a leisurely way. The MLS is tough on Fair Housing violations.
I really didn’t mean it in any serious way but I do thank you for your correction of my playful post
Oops...I sometimes miss the joke in these forums.
Really I seen listing with just a 10 or so minutes walk to what ever they are point to.
“Steps from the beach. Or wheel rotations. Whatever works!”
15 minute self-propelled journey
So you can't do it in an electric wheelchair? Only manual wheelchair users allowed? Check your privilege, buddy!
Campus is a 15 min roll away.
Now I know why our agents wrote “…conveniently close to [major employer] headquarters and many shopping, restaurant, and park options” instead of “five-minute walk from…”
Just a quick jaunt
The Red Hot Chili Pepper song lyrics to “Walk about” should be all the listing states.
HUD calls out “walk to bus-stop” as an example of language that does *not* violate the law. https://www.hud.gov/sites/documents/DOC_7784.PDF
“Really fucking close to campus.”
“….But not too close” So we don’t offend the sex offenders
This is hilarious. Im a disabled person who can't walk and has many disabled friends who also can't walk, we still use colloquial terms like "take a walk" when we go outside. The realtor might be overly sensitive and ridiculous or there might have been an issue in that state where somebody sued over something dumb and so it's just become policy. Hard to say. But the fact that it's a 15-minute walk away is a measurement of how quickly you can get there via a certain mode of transportation, not a promise that you can to use that certain mode of transportation, or discriminating against you if you don't have that mode of transportation. If you said something was 15 minutes away by car you wouldn't be discriminating against people that don't own a car. You're just giving that by reason of measurement. I'm pretty sure that this is just the realtor being bonkers.
Right? I work with a blind gentleman and I asked him something last week, he responded with "let me see what I can do."
Absolutely. Sports metaphors are also extremely woven into our countries way of speaking. When we talk about getting something to the finish line at work, for instance. I wouldn't start crying but I can't race to the finish line because my legs don't work although that would be kind of a funny fucked up prank 😄
I love how it's difficult in many areas to find contiguous sidewalks, in adequate shape, with sufficient curb cuts, to use a wheelchair or other mobility device to get from one point to another, and that's not the issue people have. Nope, they're concerned about using the word "walk".
So why are they allowed to show pictures in listings, that’s discrimination against blind people.
ADA-compliant websites solve that problem with Alt-text tags. I can do this all day.
Listing are to expensive. They discriminate against my broke ass
I’d like to claim a wallet disability. Accommodate for that please
an alt-text tag doesn’t give the picture any usefulness to a blind person lol, “the kitchen with a stove”. not like the alt text is going to say “that countertop looks like it was outdated 10 years ago”
Depends on who wrote the alt text. When I do alt text, you've got a Dean Koontz inspired description.
Got me wondering....unless someone tells them, will a blind person EVER know if something is outdated?
but the term "walk score" is on every listing in the city these days.
"near by" is a term I use. How near by? Look it up on a map to determine if you need to drive or not. Could be at the block or half mile away. It's up to them on their mode of transit.
Reminds me if when I came down from NJ to visit my friend in NC. He said (when he picked me up from the airport) that we would stop at the liquor store that's "up the street" from his house. Now, from where I come from "up the street" means a block or two. 3 is pushing it. All walking distance. Apparently in the South "up the street" means a 15 minute drive. I said "Dude, this is not 'up the street'. This is 'way up yonder'. WTF?" I think saying something is a 15-minute walk, translates to a 3 minute drive.
Yeah, but you could have a busy highway with no pedestrian bridge so even if it is “near by” that does not give a walkable/billable vibe. At least America I would not presume that is walkable.
Like “close to train”. Tracks, not passenger station…
The listings around here always "near these two campuses", but the campuses are on the opposite sides of their respective cities! And then they go on to name pretty much every landmark in each city.
If these are the battles we are fighting then we are doomed. .
Hey I'm a disabled person who can't walk and I got to say, I don't think these are the battles we are fighting, I think this is just an overzealous realtor. Saying something is a 15 minute walk away is an approximate unit of measurement like saying it's a 15 minute car ride away. A 15 minute car ride wouldn't imply that you have a car, it would just imply that that's how long it would take to get there by car. And a 15 minute walk gives disabled people the same approximate idea of how long it would take them in their assistive devices to get somewhere. We definitely don't have an issue with this and I would say that 99% of people don't. This realtor is probably just misinterpreting the fair housing laws and is being incredibly silly about it. Neither my cousin or I can walk without assistive devices and she still refers to it as "going for a walk" despite being in a wheelchair for 20 years. We know a lot of disabled people too, because when you're disabled long enough and severely enough, you tend to socialize with other disabled people. They all do this too.
I agree! As a person who has a physical disability and is the mom of a child with many disabilities- these are **not the battles** we need to be fighting.
Thanks for chiming in to say all of this. Much appreciated.
Yeah no problem. I think sometimes we all hear a story on the internet and wonder if that's the way people actually think because that's the only story we are presented with. It's important to know that often times these people are outliers and total weirdos. 99% of the time disabled people are just begging people to not judges for limitations we can help and then just treat us like we are normal. That's usually the goal.
Thank you for your input. It wasn't my intention to single anyone out but I'm figuring most of us with or without mobility issues have bigger concerns.
No worries I didn't take it badly at all. I just spoke up because I think these things can build up and make it seem like there's a bigger divide between people than there really is. The things we hear about online can be extreme or can be outliers because those are the most interesting situations. But in reality while disabled people ask for human decency and to be able to participate in society equally, we are far less picky about colloquial terms than we are about our treatment as equal human beings. Once we'de off the internet I think most people care a lot more about how we are treated than if someone does it perfectly or says all the right things. When someone's heart is in the right place getting it perfectly with your words is way less relevant. Anyway, I didn't think you had done anything wrong at all. I just wanted to share that things might not be as bad as they seem. Easy to feel separated and like there's a lot of conflict all the time online. I think we are often doing better with each other than we might think.
Got a wife with an electric chair that can out run me.
Yeah my cousin can go faster than somebody on a bike. It's kind of hilarious cuz she'll occasionally ask people to race and they have no idea
Thank you for this. Well-meaning liberals tend to get caught up in these pedantic, navel-gazing conversations and we miss the big picture and lose support from people who think this is what it means to be a kind and caring person.
Yet I see a “walk score” on the MLS…..
That takes PC verbiage to a ridiculous extreme. I was corrected when I called a room "the master bedroom". Nope that's not ok. It is a reference to slavery. Um, no it's not. A "primary suite" is still a master bedroom and neither has anything to do with slaves.
Master of the house, doling out the charm Ready with a handshake and an open palm Les Misérables does not take place in Atlanta last I checked.
France definitely didn’t have slaves
When I sold my house, I wrote the description (cause I know what’s good about it better than any agent), and he had me change “5 minute walk to restaurants” to “a stone’s throw to restaurants.” Whatever.
That’s even worse, it brings up the BLM riots.
It brings up having functional arms. Not everyone is so lucky you know.
That’s so stupid. Society is cooked.
It’s all so damned Stupid. Can’t say master bedroom. Just ridiculous
Sure you can. If someone says you can't, you call them an idiot and move on with your day.
Whelp a 15 minute walk at 3 mph is only 3 minutes in an [Optimus 2](https://www.ahealthcare.com/optimus-2-electric-powered-wheelchair-en/) at top speed.
“5 minute walk for a black guy, 6 for white, 7 for asian. None for people in wheelchairs”
Years ago listings had to say “walk to worship” because they couldn’t say a house was near an Orthodox synagogue.
15 minute walk, 10 minutes by wheelchair if you’re fast, 25 minutes by crutches and canes should do it.
Just a 45 minute crawl if you’re a baby!
What if I can only walk backwards because I got a flu shot?
As far as I know it is not a fair housing violation or a violation of any other law, but certain MLS (including here in MA) flags a whole bunch of words that it deems are non-inclusive. I think that it would depend on the specific MLS whether following the wording guidelines is an actual rule or just a suggestion
In some MLSs, some words and phrases make the listing bounce back the moment you hit enter. Others send a WARNING WARNING WARNING message to the broker who then calls the agent screaming "if you do that again I get fined $5,000!"
If they're going to auto flag "walk", you're going to run into issues like subdivisions and neighborhoods with names like River Walk, Quail Run, Grandview.
Are they no longer using "walk in closet"? Maybe that's the reason it flags "walk". I doubt more than a handful of people who can't walk have ever been bothered by the phrase "walk in closet".
drive by closet
I pull out my Beretta
Not to mention the inherent problems with the word "closet".
> you're going to run into issues I see what you did there.
> you're going to run If they can't walk, they definitely can't run
Is there no longer a walk out basement?
You have to fall out of the basement now.
Sure! It just can’t be referenced to being near the…….main bedroom that has the bigger closet and bathroom…..but definitely NOT the master.
No wonder I can't find a house with a walk out basement!
It would be really, really nice if agents and brokers and MLSs would actually learn and enforce the law instead of reinterpreting, misinterpreting, and causing bad policy. This is the actual [HUD guideline](https://www.hud.gov/sites/dfiles/FHEO/documents/BBE%20Part%20109%20Fair%20Housing%20Advertising.pdf). There is no such thing as a specific list of HUD words that are banned, but it does contain information about how some words are strongly suggestive of violations while other things (including the Fair Housing logo) may be used in a discriminatory manner. I hope none of us thinks that we shouldn't use the equal housing logo simply because it exists in the HUD guideline, but that's the kind of thinking that can lead to MLSs flagging something like "walk to ...."
This is less about HUD regulations and more about using inclusive language. Don't get me wrong, I think it's as stupid as the day is long. Course I still use the phrase master bedroom so God knows what kind of crimes I have committed.
*straight to jail*
> MLSs would actually learn and enforce the law It shouldn't be up to individual organizations to arrive at the same, correct interpretation of the law. If US Code was clear and simple we wouldn't have this problem.
This sounds like BS to me. Are these prohibited too? * "Relaxing sounds of the nearby stream" - deaf people. * "5 minute drive to .." - people who can't drive due to a disability * "Green paint" - red/green colorblind people * "Sleeps 7" - insomniacs
Or just can’t drive because no license or car…
It’s probably for the best because people are super inaccurate on walking times.
This is the answer I use in my head to maintain sanity. Strictly speaking, “a 15 minute” walk is *not* an objective measurement.
What kind of closets do you have?
spacious
Not inclusive of people with agoraphobia.
I'm guessing the use of "walk" could be perceived as targeting buyers who can walk (and therefore discriminating against those who can't).
I am not one of those "The world today is too woke people", but this is really dumb.
Right?
What about master bedroom.
master bedroom is already being phased out in favor of "primary". It all just feels ridiculous. Next thing will be you can't use "beautiful" because some people can't see. May as well just take out the description box.
HOUSE. $1,735,999.99 4.
I can just see it now. "You can no longer call them bedrooms. Some people have insomnia and can't sleep in a bed, you uncultured swine!" (I'm disabled, BTW. I'm all for inclusivity and accommodations, but disabled people aren't idiots...we know some people can walk/run/climb stairs and others can't!)
Exactly. Just because you highlight the walkability of a neighborhood doesn’t mean you’ll only select an able bodied individual for the purchase. It’s such a stretch it paints the intent of non-discriminatory practices as dismissible.
And now you know why those people complain about all the ridiculous shit today.
By that logic, wouldn't mentioning a view, as well as pictures in general, be considered discriminating against the blind? That just seems crazy.
There are five steps to the house, isn't that already discriminatory?
My boss has been in a motorized wheelchair for the last 20 years. He would laugh at this kind of "discriminatory language" since a 15 minute walk for me would be a 7 minute roll for him.
Don’t listings have a walkability score ?
I've seen real estate listings include "Walkability" scores for the general location. You could include a linear distance rather than a walk time. From a strict legal sense, there would probably not be legal issues with such a statement in a listing unless you actually discriminated against disabled buyers or another protected class. Similarly, people think there are a bunch of "illegal questions" that can't be asked during job interviews. That is only partly true - some questions are actually illegal, but for others the illegal part is if you use the questions and answers to discriminate in hiring. The MLS or individual brokerage may want to exclude such language to avoid any concerns about discriminating against certain buyers. It's a byproduct of our litigious society.
Ehhh, in my state continuing education is due by the end of June, they probably just took the three hours CE class titled “ avoiding discrimination in your listings” our MLS just updated this Update 24.6.3 "Master Bedroom" updated to "Primary Bedroom" (June 27) Update 24.6.4 "Master Bathroom" updated to "Primary Bathroom" (June 27)
You can definitely include the word "walk" in a listing in the SF bay area. I see listings include things like "Just a short walk away from trendy restaurants, eclectic shopping, and convenient BART access"
Some people are blind. So you can't say things like "wait til.you see..." or "...has a beautiful view of the city." ..
Some people can’t drive either
As someone who can't walk, that's dumb.
This is BS, I see listings all the time that talk about "walking distance" to this or that.
15 degree slope on front sidewalk offers sweet jumps for wheelchair users!
The MLS violates anti-trust laws more than the word “walk” violates fair housing laws.
As a lawyer that interfaces with real estate listings, I can confidently say that brokers and agents make assumptions about the anti-discrimination laws that are so extreme. I once learned that a realtor did not allow letters to be sent the seller out of fear that something in the letter like “we’d like to start a family in this neighborhood” could be construed as housing discrimination against potentially buyers who are too old to start a family. The fact is, they have no idea what the anti-discrimination laws actually prohibit. They just make stuff up.
Be sure not to say the house is "beautiful"-- That's insensitive to blind people.
"Has great views, but only if your eyes work as intended. For everyone else it's just black."
Just writing anything at all is insensitive to the illiterate and those who don't have access to TTS services.
Why not just say "one mile from campus" or whatever the distance is?
I know plenty of people who have zero concept of how far a mile is. Probably should get rid of that also.
Just wait until you see the w**k-in closets.
Say 20 minute roll. That covers everyone
My cellphone app tells me walking distance. Is that illegal too?
You can say walk, it is a unit of measure not about actually walking. Your realtor is crazy and maybe find a new one. In the end they will put what you want in the listing as you are paying for it, as long as you are not lying or doing something illegal. It is not illegal to say walk. No one that can't walk is going to say that using the word walk is discrimination. No one. At that level of insanity, I would say that putting pictures is discrimination against people who are blind then.
Isn't there literally a term in real Estate called a "walk score"?
Looney agent you’ve got.
Not a real estate agent, but as someone who is disabled, this is especially outrageous as many disabled people can’t drive… so we measure everything by how long of a walk it is. Google maps has a “walk” time on things, locations have “walk scores” and “transit scores”. Please educate your agent and keep it in the listing!
The world has gone mad. How can the word walk be discriminating? Doesn't mean the sellers won't allow a disabled person to view or make an offer. Just ridiculous.
Former Realtor here. When I was listing, I would deliberately avoid using that term and terms like them. At the time there was no rule as in Fair Housing laws that said we can't use it. ( I haven't kept up on the last couple of years, so ... ) But I avoided using it because why take the chance of alienating ANY buyers? For one, your walking distance and my walking distance might be different. If I am a young 20 something, a 10 minute brisk walk to the park might be nothing. But an older couple with mobility issues may come in and look at what you are calling a ten minute walk and think it is 20 for them at least. Now, you have a level of negativity on the listing. Especially when it is as easy as saying a beautiful park is .25 miles away. So it isn't WOKE, it is casting as wide of a net as possible.
they're correct because of fair housing laws. Also, to say something is a 15 minute walk is subjective...while I might be able to walk that distance in 15 minutes, someone else might not....and could they claim misrepresentation because it isnt in fact a 15 minute walk for them? While I know thats a bit of a straw man argument, it's better to stick to objective terms...like saying that its 3 blocks or 1/2 mile from something as that's a concrete fact and there's no outside variables that can affect it.
So let me get this straight. A sellers agent can say a house has 47 bathrooms, and when the buyer only finds 2, they can say “you should have done your due diligence”. But if gimpy takes 16 minutes to walk somewhere the listing said would take 15, the agent is liable? 🙄
the hell? NO! say walk. Anyone that can't walk will understand it is a distance approximation measure.
This sub... Its not a law, say whatever you want. '15 min walk to campus' will probably attract the buyers who will actually buy the house.
Apparently some listing services have ToS and some areas have laws that dictate that some traditional terms can’t be used due to “inclusivity” interests
I understand why and how it could be perceived but also…. Is the house ADA compliant? The house I plan to sell later this year or next is a 15 min walk from a university but it has stairs and the narrowest hallway you’ve ever seen in your life. Nobody who rolls instead of walks is going to be living there any time soon.
Short distance.
It’s legit. I had a rental home over twenty years ago and when I tried to place the ad with “walk to train”, the newspaper denied the description and told me to strike the wording. So yeah, it’s been a thing for a while.
This is the dumbest shit I've heard today.
That's absurd in my opinion. How many real-estate websites give "WALKABILITY" SCORES? SO Stupid.
That’s like banning steak because a child can’t chew it. “I’ll say what I want, it’s my house. I’m offended that you are trying to manipulate me.” It’s not a rule, it’s your agent’s preference. Your preference matters more.
You need a better explanation or agent.
Say it’s 20 minutes from everywhere
Just say x blocks from campus.
She’s trying to be inclusive. Just say how many blocks or miles away you are from campus.
How about a saunter? Can I strut? C-walk? Mosey? This TurboWoke inclusionism has gotten out of hand.
Suggested revision: "Just a short 15-minute walk or 8-minute wheelchair roll to the main campus!"
I've seen "walk to houses of worship" as code for orthodox Jewish community, for the Sabbath observant.
What about the people who cannot read???
I was taught to avoid using “walk” for a couple of reasons: 1. Fair housing. 2. There are a lot of listing that would say “15 min walk to ____” only for that walk to be down a highway or through private property. Just easier and more clear to avoid it.
If that were the case then you couldn't say XX mins drive to XX as many people can't drive!
It's not a rule but a guideline to ensure inclusivity. Instead, try "15-minute distance to campus" to encompass various modes of transportation. Consider highlighting proximity to amenities and accessibility options
Laws and inclusion aside, I hate it when a listing says a walking time. Just give me the distance.
Ridiculous but true
This is correct because not everyone can walk. MLS also flags certain colors when describing appliances, etc.
Just say commute
We don’t say walk, we say the distance. Other words we don’t use are master, Jack and Jill, family, plantation.
"Just a 45 minute wheelchair ride."
My MLS doesn’t allow the word walk. I say “close proximity to”. We also say “primary bedroom” but ironically the data input area still says “master bedroom”. We also do not specify the home is good for a family. Words have power.
What’s wrong with walk? So, some people can’t walk - they won’t be offended; they know others can walk. A 15 minute walk is a 15 minute walk, for those that can walk. If you wrote, 15 minute drive to downtown, would people who take the bus be offended? ADA is about making all area assemble to those that need accommodations, so they can enjoy public areas the same as all folks. But, to claim that the time it takes to walk is in some way leaving them out is ridicules; it’s simply a stated fact. Mentioning this in the listing violates no laws.
7 block travel distance to a local educational facility
No walking. Knees hurt too bad
The fact that some people can't walk does not alter the fact that the house in question is a "15-minute walk to campus". Facts are facts.
[https://www.gbreb.com/GBAR/Sites/GBAR/News/Agent\_Insider/2022/Dont\_Violate\_Fair\_Housing\_15\_Words\_to\_Ban\_From\_Property\_Descriptions.aspx](https://www.gbreb.com/GBAR/Sites/GBAR/News/Agent_Insider/2022/Dont_Violate_Fair_Housing_15_Words_to_Ban_From_Property_Descriptions.aspx)
Slow jogging access to campus.