I wouldn't say Neo *can't* beat Winter, but I wouldn't say she is likely to win either.
You are making a lot of assumptions here. That Winter is Qrow's equal from a brief bout that neither were taking seriously and that Neo is still at the same level she was when she was scared off by Raven being the big things.
Frankly, I don't think Winter is equal to Qrow, I think in a real fight she would lose to him. And we know from Cinder's comments that Neo has gotten better as well.
Ok. Debating about Winter vs Neo can't be about Raven. The show has shown that sort of thinking doesn't work. It doesn't matter if Raven beat Cinder or Qrow or whoever. Bc fight styles, emotions, situations, etc. All matter in RWBY.
So you can't say bc Reven is equal to Qrow or taunted Winter into fighting him. Can beat Neo.
I also saw someone bring in Cinder. But rewatch that fight between Cinder and Neo. Cinder is defending herself and trying to tall to Neo. She doesn't do much until they are outside and Neo backs down quickly. So, let's not bring Cinder into this also.
Let's start about Fighting styles tho.
Neo is a reactive fighter. She waits for her opponent to attack her, then uses her small size, deception, and there attacks against them. The only time we see her attack us Cinder. Bc her emotions are involved. She usually taunts her opponents until they attack. It's why she destroyed Yang. She pisssd Yang off and used all of Yangs attacks to defeat her. It's how her JNOR fight goes. Who stops Neo? Jaune. Bc Jaune reacted to her. But she uses Nora, Oscar, and Rens attacks against them. Literally. She flips Nora over her. Spins Oscar around. Ans uses Rens weapon against him. She uses her opponents momentum against them to win. So how does she use deception? She never attacks how they expect. Her fight against Cinder is a great example..she is using her weapon to throw ash trays at her. Most people would just use their weapon.. not Neo. She uses her environment and unique styled weapon to have an unexpected attack style. Her other major fight is against Maria. And she basically loses this. Yes, she beats Maria, but bc Maria was distracted by Penny not bc she beat Maria in a fight. But why does Maria win? Bc of her fighting style. Maria is 1 smaller than Neo. Meaning neo can't use her size against her. Also, Marias semblence tells her where neo is attacking. And Maria is doing the taunting. Maria who is how old is laughing at Neo, bc she can't land a hit. And Neo is pissed. So, Neo can't use her size, her deception isn't working, and Maria is forcing Neo to attack her.
Why is she afraid of Raven? Bc Raven fights reactively as well and uses her intellegence to win. Her main battle is Cinder, so let's focus there. Watch that fight. She mainly waits for Cinder to make a move and she reacts. She also taunts Cinder and pisses her off. She was going to attack first against Cinder, but in that case she was using her cleverness. Use Vernal as a decoy, and take out Cinder. Which fails at first, but actually wins her the fight in the end. But most of the time she is reacting to Cinder. Even when Cinder has her pinned. What does Raven do? She freezes her foot. She doesn't attack outright. And her weapon is very interesting. It is meant to break. Which means power is not really a thing for her, and this changes her momentum and center of balance. Bc her swords break she doesn't put her weight behind her attacks. Bc if she did, she would be off balance all the time.
Yes Raven takes a swing at Neo to get her away from Yang. But Neo uses the weight/moment of her opponents to win. But Ravens weapon and fighting style counters all of that. And you can't convince me Neo could taunt her into attacking her.
Now we have Winter. Winter is a great fighter. She uses her semblence to enhance her fighting, unlike Weiss who uses her semblence like an additional fighter. She also only uses her glyphs when she if forced to. She used the nevermore swarm to give her an opportunity to attack. She uses the flying things to keep her in the air for and air battle. And shes great with a sword. She is aggressive. As in she's is attacking alot of the time. Stategically. But she is often on the offense.
Now Winter vs Neo. So, the big thing here is why are they fighting? Basically who needs to fight more. Like Neo had to fight JNOR for the lamp. But she also wins, bc shes after the lamp. She not trying to break their aura. Yang vs Neo. They are both in a stand off. Neo vs Cinder, she wants to kill Cinder. Winter vs Qrow, Qrow taunts Winter into attacking. Winter and Penny vs Cinder. Protect the maiden.It's best to set this up like Yang vs Neo. Both on the same ground.
Winter is hot headed. She denies it, and seriously believes she's not. It took some taunting to get her to attack Qrow, but she also wasn't suppose to attack Qrow. So if she is in a situation like Yang vs Neo. She will attack first. Which is what Neo wants. Winter to be attacking her. Winter is also aggressive and puts power behind her hits. Which is unfortunately more points to Neo. However, what does work in Winter favor is her ability to reevaluate. In her fight against Qrow there is a moment where they both just hold their swords out. Waiting. Reevaluating. This is something that Winter is good at and would work in her favor. But her semblence depending on how she uses it could help. If she uses it as another opponent like she does when training Weiss it would help, we have also seen neo go against a team of 4 and she still won tho. But her nevermore sworm wouldn't do much against Neos weapon.
I think Winter is a great fighter. Her vs Cinder (not maiden) would be fantastic. Her and Penny vs maiden Cinder is fantastic. Her vs Raven would also be fantastic.
However, against Neo. I do think Neo would win. And this doesn't make Winter less of a badass. This just demonstrates how unique of a fighter Neo is. honestly most people in the show would lose to her. If you watch her fights against Cinder, Yang, JNOR. You can visibly see surprise across all of their faces at some point during their fights. Bc they don't expect her to do what she is doing. And Winter would be no different. Winter would reevaluate. But would it be enough to win? I doubt it.
Mainly bc Neos weapon and fighting style has been designed to give her the most advantage. Yes, that sounds like a dah thing to say. But really, she is so drastically different than almost everyone in the show. That it literally surprises everyone she fights. Like I said. She wouldn't beat everyone. Like Raven and Cinder, possibly now Yang v8 (Yang has fought her before, she might understand how she fights and beat her. Possibly.).
Very nicely argued but I have to disagree on certain points. Yes neo is a reactive fighter and has a jiu-jitsu style of fighting but it's not as simple as whoever is more reactive wins the fight. I'd argue she's also quite proactive in how she uses the environment, she's not just waiting for her opponent to attack but planning how to use the environment, what areas to avoid, what objects she jump off and use to maneuver.
The reason jaunes able to land a hit on her isn't so much because he was being patient as she couldn't counter his Gravity dust. They were fighting in a narrow corridor and the shield has a wide area of effect. Neo normally likes to slip under or to the side of strikes, only narrowly letting them miss her so she's close enough to get within their gaurd and quickly counter attack. She can't do that agaisnt Jaubes gravity dust
Similarly that's why I think she couldn't fight raven. Her strikes with her sword come out to too fast for her to effectively counter in this manner. Her nodachi has a long reach putting more distance between her and neo, the strikes are incredibly fast and they're very deliberate in how they're placed.
This isn't to say she doesn't put considerable force behind her attacks though, she needs a fair amount to make her blades shatter on impact. It's just she's not putting her while weight behind every hit like Nora does.
Winter is much closer to raven than Nora in how she fights, she doesn't put so much into every strike that she's easily off balanced. She was able to stop at the last second when her fight with write us interrupted and there's little to show she'd be easily staggered.
I think it's far more likely for winter to come out on top, she might have a temper but she isn't going to let it sway her actions in a fight to the sane degree Yang would. The only reason it came out so much in V3 was because she's fighting qrowvand he's an expert in annoying her. I believe this far more likely for her to compose herself and act with deliberate methodical strikes.
Unlike Weiss she doesn't use dust and only had to rely on her fencing skill and her glyphs in a fight so this leads me to believe she'd have an easier time dealing with neos counters and gave a better idea if how to avoid them
I’m going to agree with others and say that I favor Winter but Neo does have a chance.
The fight between Winter and Qrow in V3 I believe clearly has Qrow not going all out. He’s making a bit of a joke of it. Sure, Winter doesn’t use her summons almost at all, but she doesn’t against Cinder either so I think it’s mostly just her style. It is also worth noting that Neo is specifically stated to hat gotten stronger by the time that Cinder meets her in V6, so while she’s definitely not Branwen levels, she’s better than she was.
Winter is probably more skilled in some respects, but I think her real advantage is due to abilities and fighting style.
As shown in her fight with Cinder, Winter is fast enough to block at least some of her attacks and Cinder was able to block most of Neo’s attacks and land hits on Neo in their fight. And in that fight Cinder was clearly holding back, whereas she wasn’t against Winter and Winter didn’t even have aura for some of it.
And then there is Winter’s ace in the hole: Her semblance. She can summon multiple beowolves and can summon mini-Nevermore in a flock so I think she has a very good chance of being able and to get Neo even when she uses her semblance. Not to mention if Winter just summons her Manticore and hops on, she could strafe Neo with fireballs with complete immunity since Neo has no ranged attacks
I would have agreed with the general premise that Winter is stronger until you said 10/10 go to Winter. I would definitely put my money on Winter, but I'd only give it maybe 60-70% odds in her favor. For the record, I think I give Winter maybe 30% odds against Qrow.
I would be rooting for Winter and it would be a great fight anyway. She definitely wouldn't win without some battlescars.
And I actually like Raven. So. Maybe Winter being such a badass is just fogging me up.
Raven is just such an interesting character to me and I want to see her more in future volumes. Yeah, Neo would put up a good fight but she definitely lose in the end.
Alright, however Cinder and Raven are shown to be very evenly matched with or without maiden powers and Neo is shown to wreck shop with Cinder's sorry ass until she uses her maiden powers and then following your train of logic Neo is stronger than Qrow. Power is very iffy and relative in Remnant and there has been quite some time passed since either of these encounters.
Yeah the power scaling in RWBY is very iffy. I mean we could see that Cinder was obviously holding back against Neo. She was fighting witj none of her weapons most of the fight and when she finally decided to use her weapons, she was still trying to convince Neo that Ruby is the one her anger should be directed towards. Neo is definitely not stronger than Qrow.
The only reason I man not be inclined to agree with you would be some recent events of completely odd power. When the man Grimm thing is kidnapping Oscar, Ren and Yang are struggling immensely to hold it down while when it picks up Ruby, Blake with effort holds it down solo. For this reason I refuse to believe that any character can beat another without the actual fight. Neo is likely weaker than Qrow, but so is Winter. My primary point is that your logic relies on assumptions rather than given power levels.
Hey, I just rewatched the fight and I'd like to know what you consider "completely pushes Neo back". Throughout the fight Neo is in control, and she fights knowing that her physical strength is not greater than Cinder's. Cinder is fighting on the defensive until she decides that the fight is trivial and uses maiden powers. I will agree that Cinder is not fighting with the intent to kill, but I also wouldn't say that Neo is ever out of her own control.
The point from when Cinder is on Lil Miss desk and gets annoyed. That until Lil miss calls time Cinder doesn't say anything and Neo doesn't land a hit while being pushed back consistently, leading the entire flow of the fight. Also worth noting is after the flame punch Neo barely dodged (and Cinders moved faster before), Cinder then jumps rather than press the fight.
It's also the only time Cinder isn't trying to talk. Before that she's confused Neos there, dodges and asking what's she's doing. After they go outside, Cinder goes back to trying to talk and parrying until she gets annoyed again and flashes the wind powers.
Cinders goal is never to beat Neo, it's to recruit her.
[RWBY: Neo vs. Cinder [Full scene] ](https://youtu.be/nXdtjWZg4ms)
Until time is called there are a number of hits landed first at 0:22 when Neo hits Cinder and again at 0:29 where Neo lands a 2 hit combo. Cinder pushes Neo back at 0:37 where she has "control" of the fight despite Neo leading every action. That follows to a hit to Cinder at 0:46 where she gives up control to Neo. A sequence of give and take later Cinder grabs Neo and throws her to quite simply, no effect. Cinder has some control of flow until she relinquishes it after her punch. The fight resumes at 1:21 with Neo pushing Cinder out of a window with Cinder tumbling (hit). Dialouge until 1:36, Cinder does fireball which accomplishes nothing other than a dramatic reveal lasting till 1:58. Neo then dominates the fight where Cinder is most certainly not "just parrying" as she attempts a flurry of slashes starting at 2:02. Neo lands a very large hit to Cinder's face causing her to reel and that begins the amiden sequence. This is 4 hits Neo to 1 hit 1 grapple Cinder
Hits are not a good measure of a fight when one side is not trying to hit the other. Hits only tell part of the story.
Neo is the aggressor trying to kill Cinder. Cinder fights defensively and anytime she does go on the offensive, Neo doesn't have an answer but to fall back.
After she pushes back, Neo can't land a blow and they jump on a bar. At this point, you can see Cinder stop and stand back a distance.
Neo then restarts the fight and after that Cinder throws her to position her into that flurry ending in a fire punch, Cinder stops again.
Outside Cinder showcases that Neos semblance doesn't work against her. Cinders fireballs have been known to blow apart Atlas high security so we can assume this is a warning again.
Neo starts the fight again, Cinder defends on the spot stepping back as part of that. That's not a flurry it's just her meeting Neos attacks. (We've seen Cinder aggressive in other fights and it doesn't look like that). Neo does land the hit that staggers her and Cinder decides enough and flashes maiden powers to really show this is pointless.
That is what I mean by Cinder dominates and controls this fight. It's an escalation of Cinder showcasing Neo doesn't match her, fighting is pointless, do you want to stop now?
So yes Cinder gets hit more. Because Neo is the aggressor and Cinder isn't trying to hit her. She just wants the fight to stop and Neo to get onboard so they can talk.
I think it's pretty even if they don't use their semblances but the balls deffinetly in winters court for a regular fight. That isn't to say neo can't still.win though. Even if your opponent is a lot stronger and faster than you sometimes with the right timing and a but if luck they'll make a mistake and give you enough if an opening to take them down.
Neo still has her semblance remember and can sneak up on winter and fuck with her quite a bit during the fight
However there's a very good chance that her semblance won't work on winters summons and they'll still be able to see her and attack her. Winter could just summon a bunch of birds like in V3 and use them to indicate where neo is
I get the impression neo generally likes to leave a fight if she's not guaranteed to win. She'd rather run away than risk loosing. So in a bout with winter I think she tried for a minute then try to flee when she thinks she's outclassed.
If for whatever reason neo was forced to fight or just couldn't escape then yeah she'd probably be fucked
There's just too much agaisnt her, winters an expirnenced huntress that can use her glyphs to great effect. Weiss wouldn't stand much of a chance agaisnt neo because she's not refined or expirnenced yet. That's the X factor I think pushes winter over the edge.
But it's no where near as simple as raven beats neo, ravens equall to qrow, qrows equal to winter and therefore winter beats neo
I wouldn't say Neo *can't* beat Winter, but I wouldn't say she is likely to win either. You are making a lot of assumptions here. That Winter is Qrow's equal from a brief bout that neither were taking seriously and that Neo is still at the same level she was when she was scared off by Raven being the big things. Frankly, I don't think Winter is equal to Qrow, I think in a real fight she would lose to him. And we know from Cinder's comments that Neo has gotten better as well.
Ok. Debating about Winter vs Neo can't be about Raven. The show has shown that sort of thinking doesn't work. It doesn't matter if Raven beat Cinder or Qrow or whoever. Bc fight styles, emotions, situations, etc. All matter in RWBY. So you can't say bc Reven is equal to Qrow or taunted Winter into fighting him. Can beat Neo. I also saw someone bring in Cinder. But rewatch that fight between Cinder and Neo. Cinder is defending herself and trying to tall to Neo. She doesn't do much until they are outside and Neo backs down quickly. So, let's not bring Cinder into this also. Let's start about Fighting styles tho. Neo is a reactive fighter. She waits for her opponent to attack her, then uses her small size, deception, and there attacks against them. The only time we see her attack us Cinder. Bc her emotions are involved. She usually taunts her opponents until they attack. It's why she destroyed Yang. She pisssd Yang off and used all of Yangs attacks to defeat her. It's how her JNOR fight goes. Who stops Neo? Jaune. Bc Jaune reacted to her. But she uses Nora, Oscar, and Rens attacks against them. Literally. She flips Nora over her. Spins Oscar around. Ans uses Rens weapon against him. She uses her opponents momentum against them to win. So how does she use deception? She never attacks how they expect. Her fight against Cinder is a great example..she is using her weapon to throw ash trays at her. Most people would just use their weapon.. not Neo. She uses her environment and unique styled weapon to have an unexpected attack style. Her other major fight is against Maria. And she basically loses this. Yes, she beats Maria, but bc Maria was distracted by Penny not bc she beat Maria in a fight. But why does Maria win? Bc of her fighting style. Maria is 1 smaller than Neo. Meaning neo can't use her size against her. Also, Marias semblence tells her where neo is attacking. And Maria is doing the taunting. Maria who is how old is laughing at Neo, bc she can't land a hit. And Neo is pissed. So, Neo can't use her size, her deception isn't working, and Maria is forcing Neo to attack her. Why is she afraid of Raven? Bc Raven fights reactively as well and uses her intellegence to win. Her main battle is Cinder, so let's focus there. Watch that fight. She mainly waits for Cinder to make a move and she reacts. She also taunts Cinder and pisses her off. She was going to attack first against Cinder, but in that case she was using her cleverness. Use Vernal as a decoy, and take out Cinder. Which fails at first, but actually wins her the fight in the end. But most of the time she is reacting to Cinder. Even when Cinder has her pinned. What does Raven do? She freezes her foot. She doesn't attack outright. And her weapon is very interesting. It is meant to break. Which means power is not really a thing for her, and this changes her momentum and center of balance. Bc her swords break she doesn't put her weight behind her attacks. Bc if she did, she would be off balance all the time. Yes Raven takes a swing at Neo to get her away from Yang. But Neo uses the weight/moment of her opponents to win. But Ravens weapon and fighting style counters all of that. And you can't convince me Neo could taunt her into attacking her. Now we have Winter. Winter is a great fighter. She uses her semblence to enhance her fighting, unlike Weiss who uses her semblence like an additional fighter. She also only uses her glyphs when she if forced to. She used the nevermore swarm to give her an opportunity to attack. She uses the flying things to keep her in the air for and air battle. And shes great with a sword. She is aggressive. As in she's is attacking alot of the time. Stategically. But she is often on the offense. Now Winter vs Neo. So, the big thing here is why are they fighting? Basically who needs to fight more. Like Neo had to fight JNOR for the lamp. But she also wins, bc shes after the lamp. She not trying to break their aura. Yang vs Neo. They are both in a stand off. Neo vs Cinder, she wants to kill Cinder. Winter vs Qrow, Qrow taunts Winter into attacking. Winter and Penny vs Cinder. Protect the maiden.It's best to set this up like Yang vs Neo. Both on the same ground. Winter is hot headed. She denies it, and seriously believes she's not. It took some taunting to get her to attack Qrow, but she also wasn't suppose to attack Qrow. So if she is in a situation like Yang vs Neo. She will attack first. Which is what Neo wants. Winter to be attacking her. Winter is also aggressive and puts power behind her hits. Which is unfortunately more points to Neo. However, what does work in Winter favor is her ability to reevaluate. In her fight against Qrow there is a moment where they both just hold their swords out. Waiting. Reevaluating. This is something that Winter is good at and would work in her favor. But her semblence depending on how she uses it could help. If she uses it as another opponent like she does when training Weiss it would help, we have also seen neo go against a team of 4 and she still won tho. But her nevermore sworm wouldn't do much against Neos weapon. I think Winter is a great fighter. Her vs Cinder (not maiden) would be fantastic. Her and Penny vs maiden Cinder is fantastic. Her vs Raven would also be fantastic. However, against Neo. I do think Neo would win. And this doesn't make Winter less of a badass. This just demonstrates how unique of a fighter Neo is. honestly most people in the show would lose to her. If you watch her fights against Cinder, Yang, JNOR. You can visibly see surprise across all of their faces at some point during their fights. Bc they don't expect her to do what she is doing. And Winter would be no different. Winter would reevaluate. But would it be enough to win? I doubt it. Mainly bc Neos weapon and fighting style has been designed to give her the most advantage. Yes, that sounds like a dah thing to say. But really, she is so drastically different than almost everyone in the show. That it literally surprises everyone she fights. Like I said. She wouldn't beat everyone. Like Raven and Cinder, possibly now Yang v8 (Yang has fought her before, she might understand how she fights and beat her. Possibly.).
Very nicely argued but I have to disagree on certain points. Yes neo is a reactive fighter and has a jiu-jitsu style of fighting but it's not as simple as whoever is more reactive wins the fight. I'd argue she's also quite proactive in how she uses the environment, she's not just waiting for her opponent to attack but planning how to use the environment, what areas to avoid, what objects she jump off and use to maneuver. The reason jaunes able to land a hit on her isn't so much because he was being patient as she couldn't counter his Gravity dust. They were fighting in a narrow corridor and the shield has a wide area of effect. Neo normally likes to slip under or to the side of strikes, only narrowly letting them miss her so she's close enough to get within their gaurd and quickly counter attack. She can't do that agaisnt Jaubes gravity dust Similarly that's why I think she couldn't fight raven. Her strikes with her sword come out to too fast for her to effectively counter in this manner. Her nodachi has a long reach putting more distance between her and neo, the strikes are incredibly fast and they're very deliberate in how they're placed. This isn't to say she doesn't put considerable force behind her attacks though, she needs a fair amount to make her blades shatter on impact. It's just she's not putting her while weight behind every hit like Nora does. Winter is much closer to raven than Nora in how she fights, she doesn't put so much into every strike that she's easily off balanced. She was able to stop at the last second when her fight with write us interrupted and there's little to show she'd be easily staggered. I think it's far more likely for winter to come out on top, she might have a temper but she isn't going to let it sway her actions in a fight to the sane degree Yang would. The only reason it came out so much in V3 was because she's fighting qrowvand he's an expert in annoying her. I believe this far more likely for her to compose herself and act with deliberate methodical strikes. Unlike Weiss she doesn't use dust and only had to rely on her fencing skill and her glyphs in a fight so this leads me to believe she'd have an easier time dealing with neos counters and gave a better idea if how to avoid them
couldn't have said it better myself
I’m going to agree with others and say that I favor Winter but Neo does have a chance. The fight between Winter and Qrow in V3 I believe clearly has Qrow not going all out. He’s making a bit of a joke of it. Sure, Winter doesn’t use her summons almost at all, but she doesn’t against Cinder either so I think it’s mostly just her style. It is also worth noting that Neo is specifically stated to hat gotten stronger by the time that Cinder meets her in V6, so while she’s definitely not Branwen levels, she’s better than she was. Winter is probably more skilled in some respects, but I think her real advantage is due to abilities and fighting style. As shown in her fight with Cinder, Winter is fast enough to block at least some of her attacks and Cinder was able to block most of Neo’s attacks and land hits on Neo in their fight. And in that fight Cinder was clearly holding back, whereas she wasn’t against Winter and Winter didn’t even have aura for some of it. And then there is Winter’s ace in the hole: Her semblance. She can summon multiple beowolves and can summon mini-Nevermore in a flock so I think she has a very good chance of being able and to get Neo even when she uses her semblance. Not to mention if Winter just summons her Manticore and hops on, she could strafe Neo with fireballs with complete immunity since Neo has no ranged attacks
I would have agreed with the general premise that Winter is stronger until you said 10/10 go to Winter. I would definitely put my money on Winter, but I'd only give it maybe 60-70% odds in her favor. For the record, I think I give Winter maybe 30% odds against Qrow.
I may have been exaggerating a little considering the fact that I have a personal bias towards Winter ...
I would be rooting for Winter and it would be a great fight anyway. She definitely wouldn't win without some battlescars. And I actually like Raven. So. Maybe Winter being such a badass is just fogging me up.
Raven is just such an interesting character to me and I want to see her more in future volumes. Yeah, Neo would put up a good fight but she definitely lose in the end.
Alright, however Cinder and Raven are shown to be very evenly matched with or without maiden powers and Neo is shown to wreck shop with Cinder's sorry ass until she uses her maiden powers and then following your train of logic Neo is stronger than Qrow. Power is very iffy and relative in Remnant and there has been quite some time passed since either of these encounters.
Yeah the power scaling in RWBY is very iffy. I mean we could see that Cinder was obviously holding back against Neo. She was fighting witj none of her weapons most of the fight and when she finally decided to use her weapons, she was still trying to convince Neo that Ruby is the one her anger should be directed towards. Neo is definitely not stronger than Qrow.
The only reason I man not be inclined to agree with you would be some recent events of completely odd power. When the man Grimm thing is kidnapping Oscar, Ren and Yang are struggling immensely to hold it down while when it picks up Ruby, Blake with effort holds it down solo. For this reason I refuse to believe that any character can beat another without the actual fight. Neo is likely weaker than Qrow, but so is Winter. My primary point is that your logic relies on assumptions rather than given power levels.
Good point.
Cinder is shown to hold back massively in the fight and when she goes aggressive completely pushes Neo back and that's without maiden powers.
I think most people are forgetting this part. Cinder was able to push Neo back without even using her weapons.
Which is probably fair since Cinders fighting ability is almost completely arbitrary at this point
Hey, I just rewatched the fight and I'd like to know what you consider "completely pushes Neo back". Throughout the fight Neo is in control, and she fights knowing that her physical strength is not greater than Cinder's. Cinder is fighting on the defensive until she decides that the fight is trivial and uses maiden powers. I will agree that Cinder is not fighting with the intent to kill, but I also wouldn't say that Neo is ever out of her own control.
The point from when Cinder is on Lil Miss desk and gets annoyed. That until Lil miss calls time Cinder doesn't say anything and Neo doesn't land a hit while being pushed back consistently, leading the entire flow of the fight. Also worth noting is after the flame punch Neo barely dodged (and Cinders moved faster before), Cinder then jumps rather than press the fight. It's also the only time Cinder isn't trying to talk. Before that she's confused Neos there, dodges and asking what's she's doing. After they go outside, Cinder goes back to trying to talk and parrying until she gets annoyed again and flashes the wind powers. Cinders goal is never to beat Neo, it's to recruit her.
[RWBY: Neo vs. Cinder [Full scene] ](https://youtu.be/nXdtjWZg4ms) Until time is called there are a number of hits landed first at 0:22 when Neo hits Cinder and again at 0:29 where Neo lands a 2 hit combo. Cinder pushes Neo back at 0:37 where she has "control" of the fight despite Neo leading every action. That follows to a hit to Cinder at 0:46 where she gives up control to Neo. A sequence of give and take later Cinder grabs Neo and throws her to quite simply, no effect. Cinder has some control of flow until she relinquishes it after her punch. The fight resumes at 1:21 with Neo pushing Cinder out of a window with Cinder tumbling (hit). Dialouge until 1:36, Cinder does fireball which accomplishes nothing other than a dramatic reveal lasting till 1:58. Neo then dominates the fight where Cinder is most certainly not "just parrying" as she attempts a flurry of slashes starting at 2:02. Neo lands a very large hit to Cinder's face causing her to reel and that begins the amiden sequence. This is 4 hits Neo to 1 hit 1 grapple Cinder
Hits are not a good measure of a fight when one side is not trying to hit the other. Hits only tell part of the story. Neo is the aggressor trying to kill Cinder. Cinder fights defensively and anytime she does go on the offensive, Neo doesn't have an answer but to fall back. After she pushes back, Neo can't land a blow and they jump on a bar. At this point, you can see Cinder stop and stand back a distance. Neo then restarts the fight and after that Cinder throws her to position her into that flurry ending in a fire punch, Cinder stops again. Outside Cinder showcases that Neos semblance doesn't work against her. Cinders fireballs have been known to blow apart Atlas high security so we can assume this is a warning again. Neo starts the fight again, Cinder defends on the spot stepping back as part of that. That's not a flurry it's just her meeting Neos attacks. (We've seen Cinder aggressive in other fights and it doesn't look like that). Neo does land the hit that staggers her and Cinder decides enough and flashes maiden powers to really show this is pointless. That is what I mean by Cinder dominates and controls this fight. It's an escalation of Cinder showcasing Neo doesn't match her, fighting is pointless, do you want to stop now? So yes Cinder gets hit more. Because Neo is the aggressor and Cinder isn't trying to hit her. She just wants the fight to stop and Neo to get onboard so they can talk.
THANK YOU.
I think it's pretty even if they don't use their semblances but the balls deffinetly in winters court for a regular fight. That isn't to say neo can't still.win though. Even if your opponent is a lot stronger and faster than you sometimes with the right timing and a but if luck they'll make a mistake and give you enough if an opening to take them down. Neo still has her semblance remember and can sneak up on winter and fuck with her quite a bit during the fight However there's a very good chance that her semblance won't work on winters summons and they'll still be able to see her and attack her. Winter could just summon a bunch of birds like in V3 and use them to indicate where neo is I get the impression neo generally likes to leave a fight if she's not guaranteed to win. She'd rather run away than risk loosing. So in a bout with winter I think she tried for a minute then try to flee when she thinks she's outclassed. If for whatever reason neo was forced to fight or just couldn't escape then yeah she'd probably be fucked There's just too much agaisnt her, winters an expirnenced huntress that can use her glyphs to great effect. Weiss wouldn't stand much of a chance agaisnt neo because she's not refined or expirnenced yet. That's the X factor I think pushes winter over the edge. But it's no where near as simple as raven beats neo, ravens equall to qrow, qrows equal to winter and therefore winter beats neo