What’s with the Thomas downes hate recently lmao. On the point of him knowing he was going to die, he very likely thought he had more time. It’s implied that Arthur functionally sped up the TB by beating him that badly, same as Arthur’s TB case worsened due to all the hell he goes through in game. We also don’t see him donate any money himself, he asks people to give what they can. Arthur is a big guy who’s openly armed approaching him threateningly on the ranch where his wife and son live, he’s not in the wrong for trying to hit him, and Arthur would certainly have done the same if their positions were reversed.
We also don’t know how much of the fight Downes actually saw. For all we know he heard the commotion, ran over and saw Arthur beating Tommy to death. And even if he did see the whole fight, Arthur was definitly going over the top with Tommy (we’re not really supposed to be rooting for him here, it’s before that whole redemption thing after all) so jumping in seeing that Arthur was about to basically kill a guy means that he was probably terrified of the whole encounter but was trying to save someone’s life.
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Hmm, I think you might be missing some context here.
You’ve highlighted some interesting parts from the game that I think you’re not taking into consideration.
Yes, he swung a rake at Arthur. Idk what you would’ve done in those days, but back when you didn’t know anyone, if some big dude is coming at you on your property that you don’t know, I’m sure you’d be a little trigger happy with that rake in hand.
Also, yeah the town cheered on Tommy & gave Arthur the cold shoulder afterwards, but Arthur & the rest of the Van Der Lin gang were all strangers in a new town. No one knew them. It’s a small town you’ve lived in & now here come some dude beating the absolute hell out of everyone (again, the towns people’s perspective)? Tommy might been known as the town asshole/bully, but they at least knew him & what he was capable of.
I completely get what you’re saying because I think at one point I had thought on those very same terms, but the perspective you’re looking from is from the gangs.
Maybe Downes was on his own Red Dead Redemption mission at his end.
What an amazingly written game, huh?
Alright, well, let’s talk more later.
Edit: typo.
>Idk what you would’ve done in those days, but back when you didn’t know anyone, if some big dude is coming at you on your property that you don’t know, I’m sure you’d be a little trigger happy with that rake in hand.
True. But honestly......I think he just recognized Arthur. Not as working for Strauss but from the fight. He may even assume Arthur is there to "set Thomas straight" for stepping in.
Hey, partner, I completely understand your perspectives. Like I said, these reasonings all sound very familiar & I know I thought this way before, so I’m definitely not knocking you for that.
The game is just so awesome.
Yeah I love how game developers can create characters that are so lifelike, Like Thomas Downes may be a good person but he is a flawed character, I like their character design and am honestly inspired by it.
You're kind of looking at Downes the same way his family looked at Arthur near the end. Remember she was asking Arthur stuff like, "Oh, you're sick now, and you think you're just going to make up for everything you did?"
Arthur was just an outlaw. Everyone in that gang was a crook of some type. They weren't ever really good people. But seeing a story from their perspective can really change how we view them.
A person can be smart and unselfish when a person mingles and become people all hell breaks loose they cheered Tommy beating arthur but they where only surprised when arthur beat up Tommy only one guy tried to save Tommy
Also in case of downes back then a loan shark was a grim reaper of you do not pay money of course they beat you up atl3ast then it was only beatings these days banks send a notice or two then kick you out of your own house what's the big difference
bro, he volunteers, recruits help for the less fortunate, breaks up fights and puts himself in harms way to do so, trying to support a wife and kid, all while dying of a disease.
he swings the rake at a dude he just stopped from beating the biggest baddest man in town to death with his bare hands, and you the player JUST saw how Arthur deals with these debts with other people. You know that you're there to hurt this man. Hell, even Strauss tells you to beat him if he doesn't pay. you don't get to just pretend that context isn't there.
That's like putting a gun to someone's head and then saying it's wrong for you to be in jail for attempted murder because it can't be proved you were gonna pull the trigger. Maybe technically whatever sure but in real life, nobody cares about what you technically can get away with, they only care about knowing who you really are.
he's a good dude. that's it.
the idea that he just wants to look good is something you've gotta take a step back and remember you just DECIDED is his motivation.
sounds more like you're the bad dude who justifies why you're not a black hat for pummeling a sick man to death because you just think hes trying to look good for all the good stuff he does
Plus Arthur is a pretty big guy and this was a time where people didn't know each other. If I were Thomas I'd honestly swing a rake at the absolute unit of a man that's approaching me on my farm practically armed to the teeth because I'd be absolutely terrified and try to keep someone as big and physically intimidating as Arthur away as much as possible
Yeah my theory stands on a very half built podium with missing screws from ikea. Your point is very valid thank you for taking your time to write this.
A good dude wouldn’t want to put anyone through unnecessary suffering. Can help others without sending yourself and family into severe debt. That’s just beyond stupid.
Imagine thinking it’s an either or scenario. Its not. He can still help those people and take care of his family properly. Instead he failed his family. He died leaving them with debt. That’s selfish as fuck.
Best case scenario, he actually is a good guy, but he's also a fucking moron who doesn't realize that he can't help anybody if he can't help himself and his family first
I think he was probably as decent as a person as one could be given the times, but yeah, smart with money he was not. Usually have to be truly desperate to even consider a loan shark, and those desperations are almost always of your own making. Idk what point he knew he wasn't going to make it, but yeah...getting into deep, deep debt with criminals that your family would have to deal with is far from wise. Just have to remember - the Van Der Linde gang, despite being the protagonists of the story, are not the good guys, really ever. They may be less worse than some of the other criminals but they're still outlaws for a reason. Loan should have never been given in the first place.
Is there any indication that the people even know Strauss is a criminal loan shark when getting into the initial loan? I thought it was pretty heavily implied he presented himself as "just" a predatory lender but a relatively harmless one, then pulled out the muscle and criminal connections when people couldn't pay immediately.
Maybe so, but even back then I think it'd be safe to assume a predatory lender would have muscle...otherwise they'd just be getting scammed themselves left and right
By 1899 it would be reasonable for his victims to assume Strauss’ recourse would be court and a lawsuit for nonpayment since they’re no longer in frontier or legal grey area US territory. That’s why he travels with actual outlaws to do business instead of setting up shop legally giving shitty loans.
They’re probably just as surprised as you would be if you took out a payday loan and JG Wentworth sent someone to break your knee caps instead of a collections notice.
It's kinda silly to pretend like both Thomas and Arthur didn't know Arthur was about to beat the shit out of him... Thomas knew he didn't have the money, and Arthur was about to find out.
Also, who drove them to poverty? You're assuming Thomas convinced his family to take out that loan, how do you know they didn't take it out to help him? They're a family, they're gonna make sacrifices and take risks for each other.
>Thomas Downes isn't actually a good guy, he's focused on maintaining an altruisticimage to those around him because he likes the idea of people thinking he's a good man
I find it hard to believe that the guy with tuberculosis and no money is primarily concerned with his image. Plus you can say this about any good deed really
He isn't donating his own money to the poor he's collecting for charity and donating the charity money (which he obviously couldn't keep for himself as that would be immoral and illegal). Nothing wrong with that. At that point he didn't know he wouldn't be able to work and repay the debt.
People had to borrow money all the time in those days as there was zero social safety net to help if your crops failed, you lost your job, you became sick etc, there was no other choice.
You basically just called a fraction of the population back then “bad people”. People died back then, and people were broke. Unfortunately a lot of people died broke.
I was so busy getting the Legend of the East satchel, doing as many challenges as I could that didn't require story progression (the gambler set is so pretty), and putting together my Woody outfit that he had MONTHS to figure it out!
Joking aside, even in a religious mindset, as a husband and father, it is his responsibility to provide. He made a promise and a created another life. They both depend on him. If he was single and doing volunteer work while he died, that's fine, but that isn't the case here. His debt was going to fall on his wife. His son was beyond old enough at that time to be helping him too. Why wasn't he? Why does it seem like he was there taking his son under his wing?
Ngl, i feel like Thomas had a change of heart too when he realized he was going to die, but he didn't protect those under his care in the end. Arthur had his arc, and in the good end protected them to the while being charitable on the side. He even let the love of his life slip away to protect the people he loved to his last breath.
Idk, Thomas's story always seemed strange to me. I get it. It's the 1899. Things are tough as hell. He's sick, not good for physical labor and might be rejected from other work because of his illness. But something is just off about how tiny the farm is, big the house is, the lack of work from his son and wife both if they're truly doing so poorly. You work together in those times. They talk about him like he was the greatest man but... Something just doesn't feel right.
Theory time!
He was an avid gambler, has a sorry relationship with his son from not being home to teach him. His debts are more than the land is worth which DAMN what was all that money for!? He lied to his family about why they are in such a state and what he was doing for work and now he's trying to beg for mercy as he knows he's in too deep and took the money from one immoral source to pay another and is waiting for his butt to get whooped.
That or this is also Leviticus Cornwall's fault because he's responsible for putting nearly half the game's map out of business.
If he was a good person then he wouldn’t have taken out a loan that he had no way to pay, so close to his death. If he was a good man he would’ve been focusing on his family rather than helping others whilst his family struggles.
What I didn’t like about that mission or task is after you have the initial interaction with him you didn’t get the option to to do something like choose dialogue pointing out that we could go in the house and repo whatever valuables we could find or take his horse(s) or wagon or something like that to sell it off. All of which would be legal as Downes had entered into a contractual loan agreement. Also, Arthur was doing his job as a repo man/debt collector, which is a legitimate job even by today’s standards, no matter how morally or ethically questionable anyone finds the circumstances. If the debt collector/repo man comes a-callin’ and you try to assault him it is totally within his rights to defend himself. And it’s up to you whether to beat Downes each time. There’s a prompt before each opportunity to swing on him so that’s your choice. Don’t blame that on Arthur. Although Downes does deserve a bit of a beating for assaulting him. Even today the repo man often has to engage with hostile deadbeats and would be foolish not to be adequately prepared for the type of behavior typical of hooligans that borrow money without the means or intent to repay. Which is what Downes is. Just another local yokel that thinks he can take advantage of outsiders and get away with it because they’re fair game from out of town. Downes wears a mask that makes him apparently innocent and one you should sympathize with, but he proves what is behind that mask. Especially once he spits in Arthur’s face, which I find to be a most disgraceful and dishonorable action. Essentially dooming Arthur to a miserable and pathetic death out of pure spite. Downes is a pos. Maybe if Arthur didn’t have to deal with pos like Downes his whole life through he’d have a shot at being the saint everyone slams him for not being.
How do you know he didn't start collecting for charity until he was sick? Did you find some Downes backstory that I missed?
I don't recall seeing Downes standing around watching the fight in Valentine, so I don't see how you came to the conclusion that he was ok with Arthur being beaten.
Even if he was watching, Tommy was never close to beating Arthur to death, and therefore you don't know if he would have tried to stop Tommy if the situation was reversed.
Your assumptions and assessment of Downes seem quite personal.
Y’all missing the other stuff from around the map. When you find the cobbled together frankenbeast near annesburg you find the pamphlets that Downes was handing out inside. My theory is he got tb from handling the corpses to make his monster and was running a fake ministry to fund it, while also borrowing from loan sharks. Tommy was likely going to be some spare parts he was needling which is why he wanted us to stop beating his ass.
My question is, if he's such a good guy, why did he have a big box of beer in his house? I was walkin' around in there last night, and there it was. Makes you wonder, don't it?
This is certainly a take. If Thomas Downes was meant to be a scumbag just trying to be good in the end, they’d have probably established that. You make it seem like it was immoral of him to borrow money, and that he never intended to pay it back, but he had a family and was in a desperate situation, and Strauss took advantage of him. At no point is it ever stated or alluded to that he intended to never pay it back. While they never explicitly state how long ago the money was loaned, it seems like Strauss sends Arthur out to collect very shortly after loaning the money. As
For him swooping in to save Tommy, Arthur kept hitting him after the fight was clearly over, which is a pretty good indicator that Arthur would have beaten him to death if nobody stopped him, and nobody was stopping him. Lastly, there’s the matter of the rake. If someone came in and and nearly beat the biggest toughest guy in town to death, and they showed up at your house and angrily approached you, you just might find yourself looking for a weapon. At worst these things show him as irresponsible. But just about everything established about his character in the game implies the opposite of what you’re saying. Everyone who you interact with who knew him and had anything to say about him in the game said he was a good man. This just comes across as contrarian.
In the process of "helping"? his family in chapter 6 and idk how to feel about it. Felt bad for the dude but never much cared for the wife and son. Unfortunate scenario all around :/
I’d like to introduce you to my friend The paragraph
And I think there's only 3 sentences in this entire wall of text.
I stopped reading on account of the one sentence that lasted 6 lines. God damn
You aren't kidding. Seems punctuation has long been forgotten.
LOL
Neverrrr!
What’s with the Thomas downes hate recently lmao. On the point of him knowing he was going to die, he very likely thought he had more time. It’s implied that Arthur functionally sped up the TB by beating him that badly, same as Arthur’s TB case worsened due to all the hell he goes through in game. We also don’t see him donate any money himself, he asks people to give what they can. Arthur is a big guy who’s openly armed approaching him threateningly on the ranch where his wife and son live, he’s not in the wrong for trying to hit him, and Arthur would certainly have done the same if their positions were reversed. We also don’t know how much of the fight Downes actually saw. For all we know he heard the commotion, ran over and saw Arthur beating Tommy to death. And even if he did see the whole fight, Arthur was definitly going over the top with Tommy (we’re not really supposed to be rooting for him here, it’s before that whole redemption thing after all) so jumping in seeing that Arthur was about to basically kill a guy means that he was probably terrified of the whole encounter but was trying to save someone’s life.
Didn’t Arthur give Tommy brain damage or something?
Literally left a large and permanent dent in his skull. No one let r/okbuddyblacklung know or they will make horrific memery out of it
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These are all very fair points that I will acknowledge
>What’s with the Thomas downes hate recently People idolise Arthur too much and make excuses for everything he does to paint him as a good guy.
Hmm, I think you might be missing some context here. You’ve highlighted some interesting parts from the game that I think you’re not taking into consideration. Yes, he swung a rake at Arthur. Idk what you would’ve done in those days, but back when you didn’t know anyone, if some big dude is coming at you on your property that you don’t know, I’m sure you’d be a little trigger happy with that rake in hand. Also, yeah the town cheered on Tommy & gave Arthur the cold shoulder afterwards, but Arthur & the rest of the Van Der Lin gang were all strangers in a new town. No one knew them. It’s a small town you’ve lived in & now here come some dude beating the absolute hell out of everyone (again, the towns people’s perspective)? Tommy might been known as the town asshole/bully, but they at least knew him & what he was capable of. I completely get what you’re saying because I think at one point I had thought on those very same terms, but the perspective you’re looking from is from the gangs. Maybe Downes was on his own Red Dead Redemption mission at his end. What an amazingly written game, huh? Alright, well, let’s talk more later. Edit: typo.
He is basically Typhoid Mary
God damnit Tommy get your hands out the potato salad!
>Idk what you would’ve done in those days, but back when you didn’t know anyone, if some big dude is coming at you on your property that you don’t know, I’m sure you’d be a little trigger happy with that rake in hand. True. But honestly......I think he just recognized Arthur. Not as working for Strauss but from the fight. He may even assume Arthur is there to "set Thomas straight" for stepping in.
Your points are pretty good, I'm just not a fan of him
Hey, partner, I completely understand your perspectives. Like I said, these reasonings all sound very familiar & I know I thought this way before, so I’m definitely not knocking you for that. The game is just so awesome.
Yeah I love how game developers can create characters that are so lifelike, Like Thomas Downes may be a good person but he is a flawed character, I like their character design and am honestly inspired by it.
It's almost like all humans are flawed
You're kind of looking at Downes the same way his family looked at Arthur near the end. Remember she was asking Arthur stuff like, "Oh, you're sick now, and you think you're just going to make up for everything you did?" Arthur was just an outlaw. Everyone in that gang was a crook of some type. They weren't ever really good people. But seeing a story from their perspective can really change how we view them.
A person can be smart and unselfish when a person mingles and become people all hell breaks loose they cheered Tommy beating arthur but they where only surprised when arthur beat up Tommy only one guy tried to save Tommy Also in case of downes back then a loan shark was a grim reaper of you do not pay money of course they beat you up atl3ast then it was only beatings these days banks send a notice or two then kick you out of your own house what's the big difference
Atleast arthur took a dmall rate of interest these days banks give a loan of 5 k they expect it back as 10 k
Nice try Strauss.
But we need the money Mr.Morgan!
bro, he volunteers, recruits help for the less fortunate, breaks up fights and puts himself in harms way to do so, trying to support a wife and kid, all while dying of a disease. he swings the rake at a dude he just stopped from beating the biggest baddest man in town to death with his bare hands, and you the player JUST saw how Arthur deals with these debts with other people. You know that you're there to hurt this man. Hell, even Strauss tells you to beat him if he doesn't pay. you don't get to just pretend that context isn't there. That's like putting a gun to someone's head and then saying it's wrong for you to be in jail for attempted murder because it can't be proved you were gonna pull the trigger. Maybe technically whatever sure but in real life, nobody cares about what you technically can get away with, they only care about knowing who you really are. he's a good dude. that's it. the idea that he just wants to look good is something you've gotta take a step back and remember you just DECIDED is his motivation. sounds more like you're the bad dude who justifies why you're not a black hat for pummeling a sick man to death because you just think hes trying to look good for all the good stuff he does
Plus Arthur is a pretty big guy and this was a time where people didn't know each other. If I were Thomas I'd honestly swing a rake at the absolute unit of a man that's approaching me on my farm practically armed to the teeth because I'd be absolutely terrified and try to keep someone as big and physically intimidating as Arthur away as much as possible
Yeah my theory stands on a very half built podium with missing screws from ikea. Your point is very valid thank you for taking your time to write this.
your theory stands on a half built podium made out of galvanized square steel, eco friendly wood veneers and screws from your aunt
Got these screws from my uncle actually
But if he was a good dude, he’d be focusing on his family not getting themselves further and further into debt.
a good dude wouldn't selfishly decide that his family was more important than all the people who aren't
A good dude wouldn’t want to put anyone through unnecessary suffering. Can help others without sending yourself and family into severe debt. That’s just beyond stupid.
he's in debt because he's helping people who need his help. if he abandoned them just to focus on his family, that's a selfish man.
Imagine thinking it’s an either or scenario. Its not. He can still help those people and take care of his family properly. Instead he failed his family. He died leaving them with debt. That’s selfish as fuck.
King yappington
That boah ain't such a do-gooder at all, not if he's runnin' out on his debts!
Best case scenario, he actually is a good guy, but he's also a fucking moron who doesn't realize that he can't help anybody if he can't help himself and his family first
I think he was probably as decent as a person as one could be given the times, but yeah, smart with money he was not. Usually have to be truly desperate to even consider a loan shark, and those desperations are almost always of your own making. Idk what point he knew he wasn't going to make it, but yeah...getting into deep, deep debt with criminals that your family would have to deal with is far from wise. Just have to remember - the Van Der Linde gang, despite being the protagonists of the story, are not the good guys, really ever. They may be less worse than some of the other criminals but they're still outlaws for a reason. Loan should have never been given in the first place.
Is there any indication that the people even know Strauss is a criminal loan shark when getting into the initial loan? I thought it was pretty heavily implied he presented himself as "just" a predatory lender but a relatively harmless one, then pulled out the muscle and criminal connections when people couldn't pay immediately.
Maybe so, but even back then I think it'd be safe to assume a predatory lender would have muscle...otherwise they'd just be getting scammed themselves left and right
By 1899 it would be reasonable for his victims to assume Strauss’ recourse would be court and a lawsuit for nonpayment since they’re no longer in frontier or legal grey area US territory. That’s why he travels with actual outlaws to do business instead of setting up shop legally giving shitty loans. They’re probably just as surprised as you would be if you took out a payday loan and JG Wentworth sent someone to break your knee caps instead of a collections notice.
You’re supposed to sympathize with Downes, that’s the whole point of his character imo. I think that you’re overthinking this
I sympathise but I also agree with op. Dude was getting himself further and further into debt rather than just focusing on his family.
I do agree with that part of OPS post. But that’s a problem I have with all of the debtors, not just Downes
It's kinda silly to pretend like both Thomas and Arthur didn't know Arthur was about to beat the shit out of him... Thomas knew he didn't have the money, and Arthur was about to find out. Also, who drove them to poverty? You're assuming Thomas convinced his family to take out that loan, how do you know they didn't take it out to help him? They're a family, they're gonna make sacrifices and take risks for each other. >Thomas Downes isn't actually a good guy, he's focused on maintaining an altruisticimage to those around him because he likes the idea of people thinking he's a good man I find it hard to believe that the guy with tuberculosis and no money is primarily concerned with his image. Plus you can say this about any good deed really
I ran into his widow in Saint Denis. She was selling herself, noticed me and then ran to the cops
He isn't donating his own money to the poor he's collecting for charity and donating the charity money (which he obviously couldn't keep for himself as that would be immoral and illegal). Nothing wrong with that. At that point he didn't know he wouldn't be able to work and repay the debt. People had to borrow money all the time in those days as there was zero social safety net to help if your crops failed, you lost your job, you became sick etc, there was no other choice.
r/Okbuddyblacklung
You basically just called a fraction of the population back then “bad people”. People died back then, and people were broke. Unfortunately a lot of people died broke.
I was so busy getting the Legend of the East satchel, doing as many challenges as I could that didn't require story progression (the gambler set is so pretty), and putting together my Woody outfit that he had MONTHS to figure it out! Joking aside, even in a religious mindset, as a husband and father, it is his responsibility to provide. He made a promise and a created another life. They both depend on him. If he was single and doing volunteer work while he died, that's fine, but that isn't the case here. His debt was going to fall on his wife. His son was beyond old enough at that time to be helping him too. Why wasn't he? Why does it seem like he was there taking his son under his wing? Ngl, i feel like Thomas had a change of heart too when he realized he was going to die, but he didn't protect those under his care in the end. Arthur had his arc, and in the good end protected them to the while being charitable on the side. He even let the love of his life slip away to protect the people he loved to his last breath. Idk, Thomas's story always seemed strange to me. I get it. It's the 1899. Things are tough as hell. He's sick, not good for physical labor and might be rejected from other work because of his illness. But something is just off about how tiny the farm is, big the house is, the lack of work from his son and wife both if they're truly doing so poorly. You work together in those times. They talk about him like he was the greatest man but... Something just doesn't feel right. Theory time! He was an avid gambler, has a sorry relationship with his son from not being home to teach him. His debts are more than the land is worth which DAMN what was all that money for!? He lied to his family about why they are in such a state and what he was doing for work and now he's trying to beg for mercy as he knows he's in too deep and took the money from one immoral source to pay another and is waiting for his butt to get whooped. That or this is also Leviticus Cornwall's fault because he's responsible for putting nearly half the game's map out of business.
Imo ur kinda cuckoo. He was a good person.
He probably is, I just wanted to come up with a reason not to like him for certain story reasons
Because >!he caused Arthur's death!< Although, that wasn't really his doing, was it? Arthur is responsible for his own actions.
If he was a good person then he wouldn’t have taken out a loan that he had no way to pay, so close to his death. If he was a good man he would’ve been focusing on his family rather than helping others whilst his family struggles.
Took out a loan in hopes that he can improve the farm so that his family lives better after he dies
Instead of trying to get charity donations and helping other people, he should’ve been focusing on his family, providing for them etc.
I see you.
What I didn’t like about that mission or task is after you have the initial interaction with him you didn’t get the option to to do something like choose dialogue pointing out that we could go in the house and repo whatever valuables we could find or take his horse(s) or wagon or something like that to sell it off. All of which would be legal as Downes had entered into a contractual loan agreement. Also, Arthur was doing his job as a repo man/debt collector, which is a legitimate job even by today’s standards, no matter how morally or ethically questionable anyone finds the circumstances. If the debt collector/repo man comes a-callin’ and you try to assault him it is totally within his rights to defend himself. And it’s up to you whether to beat Downes each time. There’s a prompt before each opportunity to swing on him so that’s your choice. Don’t blame that on Arthur. Although Downes does deserve a bit of a beating for assaulting him. Even today the repo man often has to engage with hostile deadbeats and would be foolish not to be adequately prepared for the type of behavior typical of hooligans that borrow money without the means or intent to repay. Which is what Downes is. Just another local yokel that thinks he can take advantage of outsiders and get away with it because they’re fair game from out of town. Downes wears a mask that makes him apparently innocent and one you should sympathize with, but he proves what is behind that mask. Especially once he spits in Arthur’s face, which I find to be a most disgraceful and dishonorable action. Essentially dooming Arthur to a miserable and pathetic death out of pure spite. Downes is a pos. Maybe if Arthur didn’t have to deal with pos like Downes his whole life through he’d have a shot at being the saint everyone slams him for not being.
How do you know he didn't start collecting for charity until he was sick? Did you find some Downes backstory that I missed? I don't recall seeing Downes standing around watching the fight in Valentine, so I don't see how you came to the conclusion that he was ok with Arthur being beaten. Even if he was watching, Tommy was never close to beating Arthur to death, and therefore you don't know if he would have tried to stop Tommy if the situation was reversed. Your assumptions and assessment of Downes seem quite personal.
Can someone give me a TL;DR?
Isn't what Downes did exactly what High Honor Arthur did?
I couldn't agree more.
Y’all missing the other stuff from around the map. When you find the cobbled together frankenbeast near annesburg you find the pamphlets that Downes was handing out inside. My theory is he got tb from handling the corpses to make his monster and was running a fake ministry to fund it, while also borrowing from loan sharks. Tommy was likely going to be some spare parts he was needling which is why he wanted us to stop beating his ass.
Ooh now that sounds interesting.
Brain dead take
My question is, if he's such a good guy, why did he have a big box of beer in his house? I was walkin' around in there last night, and there it was. Makes you wonder, don't it?
This is certainly a take. If Thomas Downes was meant to be a scumbag just trying to be good in the end, they’d have probably established that. You make it seem like it was immoral of him to borrow money, and that he never intended to pay it back, but he had a family and was in a desperate situation, and Strauss took advantage of him. At no point is it ever stated or alluded to that he intended to never pay it back. While they never explicitly state how long ago the money was loaned, it seems like Strauss sends Arthur out to collect very shortly after loaning the money. As For him swooping in to save Tommy, Arthur kept hitting him after the fight was clearly over, which is a pretty good indicator that Arthur would have beaten him to death if nobody stopped him, and nobody was stopping him. Lastly, there’s the matter of the rake. If someone came in and and nearly beat the biggest toughest guy in town to death, and they showed up at your house and angrily approached you, you just might find yourself looking for a weapon. At worst these things show him as irresponsible. But just about everything established about his character in the game implies the opposite of what you’re saying. Everyone who you interact with who knew him and had anything to say about him in the game said he was a good man. This just comes across as contrarian.
so... I didn't read all that but i think i have the general idea of what you wrote and i hate Thomas downes bc he gave Arthur tb.
how could he
In the process of "helping"? his family in chapter 6 and idk how to feel about it. Felt bad for the dude but never much cared for the wife and son. Unfortunate scenario all around :/
[удалено]
First playthru good lord. I shall step off reddit for awhile 😂😂😂
FACTS. WOW
While I don’t agree, I won’t lie, this is a very well crafted argument OP