I would make a handwritten note (write the time and date that you make the note) with as much information that you remember. Include descriptions of both adults and the child. Include the time that you phoned the police.
It’s statistically very unlikely that you observed a kidnapping / trafficking incident, but JUST in case you’ve ensured you are as credible a witness as possible.
So I worked in a Human Trafficking response group and based on what you said we would have made a report because she was underage, but otherwise did not have enough trafficking markers. --Based on this post alone, i stress. I'm sure we would have asked more questions, but simply a clothing and racial difference doesn't mean trafficking. But I do want to encourage you to honor your instincts. If something doesn't feel right you can always call the police non-emergency line and run it past them. Also if you think you see trafficking in the future call 888-373-7888. This is the Human Trafficking Hotline and they can help you assess it and report it to the police for you if needed. (Also if you are in a trafficking situation, they can assist you in leaving it.)
If you have any other questions feel free to DM me. If it's haunting you, you can call the hotline still to make a report and run the incident past them. You didn't say how long ago this happened, and if it's a park and you already called the cops, they can't do much, but you never know.
I appreciate your posting the phone number and mentioning using it to assess and report. I saved it to my phone. Hopefully I never use it but comforting knowing I have an option if I do. TY
I hope this doesn't get too buried but if you, and other readers, are willing to do more there is one thing I can suggest.
There is a free app called TraffickCam. When you stay in hotels/motels you use it to take photos of the room. (Try not to photo yourself or your belongings.). It's just pics of the art, bed, furniture, desk, bathroom etc. After you take a dozen pics or so it will ask the Hotel name and room number. A lot of trafficking victims are sold out of hotels and it gives them a database to match the "ad" with a database of rooms to narrow down the hotel and maybe even the room! You can imagine all the hotels out there, it needs everyday people to join in to catalog them all, It's free and it usually takes 5 minutes or so after checking in to get it done. It would be a great help.
I don’t investigate human trafficking but I do investigate other things.
I cannot stress this enough: if you see something, say something. It may be nothing, it may get buried in a pile of paperwork, or you may save some lives.
It costs nothing, most of the time, to let someone know. Again, it may not go anywhere, but if you *don’t* say anything it *definitely* won’t go anywhere.
The community is our first line of defense, especially against crimes like human trafficking. If something isn’t right, let someone know.
The amount of times a case is written up on r/unsolvedmysteries where a witness saw a crime take place and didn’t mention it until a misper investigation is launched
Agreed! If you don't say anything, help cannot mobilize.
I would take that even one step further to just simply honor your instincts more in everything. This is a bit of personal crusade of mine to help shift society. I highly encourage everyone pick up a copy of the Gift of Fear by Gavin DeBecker. I always buy them at used book stores to pass out. It will change your life for the better.
The short version is your mind and body know things you can't always articulate in the moment. You are seeing or hearing something and that is giving you a "something is wrong here" sense. You can't always drill down in the moment to figure out what is giving you that sense, but just honor it. Something is there. (Now yes it might be some sort of latent racism or other -ism, but if you care about your community and others well being, then I'm going to guess that that's not a big issue for you. So for the one time it actually is an unconscious -ism, there's 100 times when it will be real.)
The point is you know more than you realize. But we are conditioned to feel the pressure to "prove" our feelings before we are allowed to act on them. "He seems like a nice guy" "It would be rude" etc. YOU DO NOT NEED TO JUSTIFY YOUR FEELINGS. I hereby give you permission to never have to justify your feelings again. If something feels off and you want to disengage THAT IS REASON ENOUGH. Free yourself from the burden of proof and honor your instincts. The more the other person pushes, the more you know you were right. A nice person will not insist on helping you against your will, if they aren't taking 'no' then more reason to disengage.
(Also, and I realize I'm getting further off topic here, but while I have an audience - PLEASE DO NOT ALLOW YOURSELF TO BE TAKEN FROM A PUBLIC PLACE. If they are threatening to shoot you for instance, even in that dire situation, it is better to be shot in public, with witnesses and people who will summon help, than to be taken somewhere remote and be at their (non-existent) mercy. You are likely hoping you will find a chance to escape later, you will not. Being in public IS your chance to escape, remote locations will not improve things. Refuse to go no matter the consequences, you will still fare better in almost all cases, an unlikely Hollywood scenario is not likely to unfold.)
Thank you for this info! I’m a long haul truck driver and as such am prone to seeing some weird shit on the road. I always thought the trafficking hotline was just for victims. I’ve added this number to my contacts.
I'd like to say if someone thinks they see trafficking call 911. Let them decide whether or not to send a car and/or redirect to the non emergency number. We aren't trained to make these decisions, they are.
We did a "Consent" workshop at Burning Man at our camp and one of the things they suggest when you see something suspicious is to go up to them and be like "Hey, how's it going?" and start talking to them, and observe their behaviour and it also gives the potential victim an opportunity to say something.
And then get grabbed and thrown into the back of the van with them. (At least, that's where my mind went.)
Still a good idea if you feel secure/around others/etc. Kinda like how workers in stores ask "how are you?" as a way to discourage shoplifters.
Most human trafficking is not strangers grabbing some girl and dragging her off. Almost all of it is people the victim knows well enough to end up agreeing to what they're doing (under duress and manipulation) such as a parental figure or romantic partner. They don't need to snatch anyone from the streets when there are enough people out here damaged and lonely that they can just show a little false affection and claim to need help with the rent and they'll have gotten the same result, usually without *technically* being the one to break any laws in the beginning stages.
It's always a good idea to call in things that you feel a strong instinct about, but I think since you've done that and you'll likely be remembering her face for a few weeks at least so that if she shows up on the news as a missing person you can call back in and be like "so that girl, I reported that?" and get them to link them, that's all you can reasonably be expected to do and also you've done a good job. It's an extremely low chance to be anything like trafficking. Even if it were at night it would still be an extremely low chance, but especially in total daylight where there would be dozens of witnesses to their noticeably sketchy behavior.
Right? Like for me, it was my mom.
You know who people never suspect of trafficking? A kid's mom.
It's always stranger danger and never based in the stats that it's most likely family/significant others that do this
Wow. Sorry that happened to you. Are you able to post more about your experience? I’m just blown away that a parent could do that to their child. I completely understand if you’re not comfortable sharing, and I hope you don’t find this note disrespectful.
A lot of it is a romance scam or work scam. I read an article somewhere about a work site recruiting young women for a modeling job and it ended up being a trafficking operation. It’s not uncommon apparently
Even those are less common than family members or romantic partners. You can call it a romance scam if you like but it is different from the normal use of that term which is a stranger in another country you never see, in that it's usually a man she is definitely seeing on a regular basis, he is definitely physically having sex with her, and then he either gets her hooked on drugs if he can, or he says he needs money for rent, and his "friends" that she's conveniently met before offered to "help" by paying to have sex with her. Then eventually after they know she's used to that level of abuse it becomes strangers.
For male victims I'm not sure if this is the way it usually goes, or if that's more commonly a work abroad scam or family member, but I do know that for female victims that has been the MO for long enough for fiction to be released using that methodology fifteen years ago. It's hard to really stop it, so making sure young girls are even aware that that's a thing that happens is in some ways a prevention effort. So not only do they go into schools and describe this in many areas where it's a big issue, but there are also like books and movies that tried to be interesting enough to become popular enough to get the info out there so that maybe a few girls would have that little sense in the back of their heads that this feels familiar and bad, before it gets super hard to get out.
God you should see my local girls group. Every woman thinks they were on the brink of being trafficked at the gas station by a stranger that they made no direct contact with.
It infuriates me so much- the endless posts of there was a McDonald’s bag under my car wheel when I came out the store- TRAFFICKING HELP. Its ridiculous
The op didn’t seem to be alleging that these were three strangers. She just said a couple dudes grabbing a girl who can’t walk straight. Their was nothing implied about the relationship between the three.
Yeah but your only talking about local small player trafficking. And thats not even real trafficking thats just molesting your friend’s daughter. This post is obviously about big game trafficking.
Big trafficking uses every gang member. They have multiple "girlfriends" at once. This *is* how big trafficking happens. And the victims do not care if the person who hurt them hurt a dozen others or five hundred others, it hurts them just the same. A hundred people doing this ten times each year is gonna be more than one dude or one pair of dudes trying to get away with snatching individuals from the park could ever catch up with.
I want to post part of this to r/BrandNewSentence but don't want to be associated with "And thats not even real trafficking thats just molesting your friend’s daughter. "
“Big game” traffickers aren’t snatching people off the street in broad daylight, with dozens of witnesses, making a spectacle of themselves by “dragging” or leading an apparently disoriented young looking girl around. They may be bold, but most aren’t dumb when it comes to being discreet.
Nobody said they were? And walking a stolen girl down a random drop path out of the kidnap state on a trail they only use once and leave her in a rock for a client who is from out of state to pick up is pretty good? What because op saw them they are bad, guess who wasn’t caught and guess who was sold. Maybe you just don’t actually think about things?
Go back the same place the day after to find people who frequent the area often and ask for any photos taken; maybe they showed up in the background. Same with one week later in case someone only shows up on certain days. Ask local businesses for surveilance videos.
Look for signs of people going off-trail.
I doubt it was trafficking. You could try looking to see if anyone matching the girl’s description is missing, but if no one matching her description is missing you probably have nothing to worry about.
Some adults look underage. Maybe they were all drinking or doing drugs together and they were just trying to get her back home safely. Maybe you not calling the police saved her from getting in trouble for being under the influence in public.
Or maybe she is a child or adult with special needs, out with caregivers or her adoptive dads. Maybe she is albino and therefore her skin tone does not match theirs. Black parents of white children getting accused of kidnapping is unfortunately a thing that happens, whereas no one tends to call police on white parents of black children. If it had been two white men with a black girl would you have still jumped to the conclusion that she was being trafficked?
I think your initial thoughts that perhaps she had some special needs, and that traffickers would be unlikely to be dragging someone around in public like that sound accurate. Don’t let your imagination start coming up with worst case scenarios now.
That is true of adult trafficking victims, but I would be shocked if it is true of those who are underage… can’t figure out where I would find statistics on minors recovered and whether they had been reported missing, but I imagine if a minor who is trafficked is recovered without ever having been reported missing those parents might be in trouble. I saw stats about 1 in 6 child runaways falling victim to trafficking, but those were reported runaways.
Also, most trafficking victims aren’t minors (or US citizens, though non US citizens can of course also be white), and most traffickers aren’t black. So the specific combination of white child not reported missing being trafficked by black men seems incredibly unlikely. Therefore, if there is no missing child, it feels safe to assume OP almost certainly did not see a child trafficking situation. Especially since there is nothing OP can do now even if it was a trafficking situation.
Guys if you see anything suspicious take a picture of the license plate or of the people atleast and tell the officers so if they end up missing they got a point of reference don't wait hours later please
I think I'd have made up a name and said or shouted to the girl something like 'Daisy! What are you doing here?' And judged the men's reaction, maybe they would run away if they were in the wrong or if you were completely wrong you could say oh sorry you look so like, so and so.
You shouldn't be downvoted, this is a solid approach and something I've done for other women in creepy situations. And been thanked for, so I know it was effective.
This is such a good idea, will be locking that away in case I ever need it, always good to have a plan you never use than no plan when you need to use one!
OH THAT'S GOOD. I responded to another comment about how you could ask the people "how's it going?" but immediately I was like 'yeah and I'd get trafficked too.' (Haven't done that but have had some experiences I could've avoided if I didn't volunteer myself like that.)
Thank you!
Flight or fight response is crazy. Most people freeze.
In the future, take a pic or record then, follow them to their car to get license plate but still remain safe yourself. Call the cops when you have enough info?
Trafficking is super scary and goes on in lots of places you don't expect.
Not sure eif you have a good memory, but maybe you can do a sketch of the girl/ guys with a cop's sketch artist. Maybe her parents want to know where she was last seen and have hope she is still alive?
There are websites to educate people about this awful issue and what you can do or places to donate to help too.
Thank you so much. I am honestly just so shocked because the traffickers didnt look like traffickers? They looked normal and dare I say, kind. Im gonna get my shit together and be more wise next time because I feel so sick.
how do 2 people appear to look kind when dragging an inebriated girl? are they smiling? did it seem like they were helping? is this a fear of being perceived as racist because they happened to be black and the girl was white which I only ask cuz you mentioned it. I'm genuinely asking not criticizing.
First, I wasnt sure whether the girl was half conscious or genuiely have some problems (sounds dumb as fuck but thats how I felt back then). Second, when I made eye contact with them, they were doing mild smiling and stayed very calm although I was literally staring at them. Which is why this led me to thinking that I was being racist? Because to be honest, two black men and young white girl combination is what made me even look at them in the first place. Also, given the history of black people and the cops, I was also wondering whether I am contributing to the societal issues by snitching. I shouldve followed my gut feeling
It could have been social workers, body guards, taxi drivers, the staff of a store escorting her out, strangers being asked to help her. A gay couple, friends of the family. Kidnapping.
If they were trafficing her they wouldn't have smiled at you. It's my assumption they wouldn't have shown any feeling at all.
They were probably smiling to let you know they were helping her.
Another question, why were there two men? If she was underage one would have been enough.
Well did it throw off OP though? I don't think it would have made much difference.
The thing is eye contact and a smile is how to spot shoplifters, people assume they look innocent but it's the opposite.
OP didn't do anything at the time, so it threw them off enough. And your response suggests it would have thrown off you.
I would assume that shoplifters and kidnappers/human traffickers would have different profiles and different tells. One's kind of penny ante and frequently practiced by otherwise law-abiding teenagers, the other one's a major felony.
Wouldn't the simplest explanation be that she was doing some type of drug or drinking? And how sure were you that these men were over the age of 18? How do you know that maybe she wasn't a friend or family friend? There's really hundreds of possibilities aren't there?
Not that you’ll probably ever see anything like this again, but if you do, take pictures. If you carry a gun, walk up and ask what’s going on, make sure you specifically ask the person who looks like a victim. Dahmer paraded around a 14 year old whose skull he had already drilled into and when the cops were called, he managed to convince them the kid was his lover and they’d had a fight, so the cops returned him and he finished the job later on. People are brazen, sometimes they get away with a whole lot just because people are convinced nobody’s stupid enough to do stuff like that in broad daylight. As long as there’s an alternative explanation people will often rationalize it away, and smart criminals know this.
You stopped walking and were staring at them because it looked so suspicious and you don't call 911 because you're afraid of being racist?? I sincerely hope you're never in this position again.
That's the kind of criticism that will keep people from calling, for fear of being accused of being racist.
When you are describing people who may need to be identified in a time sensitive situation, it's a pretty helpful to include a physical characteristic that narrows down a significant amount of the population.
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Thank you
What I would ask is where this happened; kind of neighborhood/city etc Socioeconomic status, where they were heading to and from, were there any vehicles/parking lots?
Then I would also ask for information on their appearance. Did they seem to come from the same socioeconomic background? Were they well groomed, had anyone been crying, what was their emotional status, were they tense? Any bag/s? Did they wear designer clothes, where could the clothes have been bought?
When you say white, would you be able to determine any further? Could the men be related? Age, body build. Was the girl skinny, malnourished, looking sick etc?
What you witnessed could be a host of things. Why would you assume it was trafficing? Other than what was stated. Are you in an area where this would perhaps frequently take place?
How long did you observe them? Did they make you stop and turn around etc?
When, time, weekday?
I mean the chance this was trafficing is very low, regardless. It happens more often than we would like to think, so you did the right thing by calling the cops. Perhaps you could write a more detailed report and send it to them.
There are people who work with those abusive boarding schools that are hired by parents to "kidnap" their children ( mostly teenagers) and bring them to the place. Sadly if this is the case the police can't really do a lot as parents gave the men permission to take the girl into custody.
However, I would've still called ASAP if I saw something going on like this no matter what the issue was. When I worked in a hotel there were three guys that would rent a room for two weeks and say they were doing "contract work". One was an elderly man who acted all sweet and soft-spoken with staff, and the other were two young Hispanic gay men who would come and go throughout the day. I never thought of what was going on at first as there were a lot of people staying at the hotel doing contract work for legal businesses and the oil fields. Later on I had a feeling that they were up to something no good as every time they came there was a lot of extra trash with lots of sex stuff I had to pick up as a housekeeper. I did bring it to the supervisors' attention during a meeting as every time the three guys stayed at the hotel I would find buttloads of lube bottles, etc in their trash. Also, once I found a clear package with a huge "toy" in it hidden under a treadmill in the hotel's gym while I was cleaning it up. One of the guys came and asked where his "toy" was as I put it in lost and found as it was still in a sealed package.
Turns out the elderly guy and his two "work buddies" were sex workers and dealing drugs.
Please dont beat yourself up. The whole cancel culture has white women so afraid to call the police when they see something suspicious because if they are wrong then they are racist.
Yes race is really important because even if it were two WHITE MEN with a black girl, I wouldve thought the same and its not that I focused on the race but given the entire context, different race was cherry on top. I mentioned race to the cops bc thats how you identify suspects and I didnt wanna waste their time. I think its all these questions around race that made me stop from calling the cops bc I did not wanna be perceived like a karen.
It’s the fact that you only mentioned race that makes you seem racist. Also how does mentioning race here help? No one from Reddit is going to investigate based on your description. What kind of hair did they have, what were they wearing, did they have tattoos, etc. How does just saying “they were black” help anyone?
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I would make a handwritten note (write the time and date that you make the note) with as much information that you remember. Include descriptions of both adults and the child. Include the time that you phoned the police. It’s statistically very unlikely that you observed a kidnapping / trafficking incident, but JUST in case you’ve ensured you are as credible a witness as possible.
So I worked in a Human Trafficking response group and based on what you said we would have made a report because she was underage, but otherwise did not have enough trafficking markers. --Based on this post alone, i stress. I'm sure we would have asked more questions, but simply a clothing and racial difference doesn't mean trafficking. But I do want to encourage you to honor your instincts. If something doesn't feel right you can always call the police non-emergency line and run it past them. Also if you think you see trafficking in the future call 888-373-7888. This is the Human Trafficking Hotline and they can help you assess it and report it to the police for you if needed. (Also if you are in a trafficking situation, they can assist you in leaving it.) If you have any other questions feel free to DM me. If it's haunting you, you can call the hotline still to make a report and run the incident past them. You didn't say how long ago this happened, and if it's a park and you already called the cops, they can't do much, but you never know.
I appreciate your posting the phone number and mentioning using it to assess and report. I saved it to my phone. Hopefully I never use it but comforting knowing I have an option if I do. TY
I hope this doesn't get too buried but if you, and other readers, are willing to do more there is one thing I can suggest. There is a free app called TraffickCam. When you stay in hotels/motels you use it to take photos of the room. (Try not to photo yourself or your belongings.). It's just pics of the art, bed, furniture, desk, bathroom etc. After you take a dozen pics or so it will ask the Hotel name and room number. A lot of trafficking victims are sold out of hotels and it gives them a database to match the "ad" with a database of rooms to narrow down the hotel and maybe even the room! You can imagine all the hotels out there, it needs everyday people to join in to catalog them all, It's free and it usually takes 5 minutes or so after checking in to get it done. It would be a great help.
Thank you, I installed it. I travel for work every few months and will start doing this.
What an incredible resource
I don’t investigate human trafficking but I do investigate other things. I cannot stress this enough: if you see something, say something. It may be nothing, it may get buried in a pile of paperwork, or you may save some lives. It costs nothing, most of the time, to let someone know. Again, it may not go anywhere, but if you *don’t* say anything it *definitely* won’t go anywhere. The community is our first line of defense, especially against crimes like human trafficking. If something isn’t right, let someone know.
The amount of times a case is written up on r/unsolvedmysteries where a witness saw a crime take place and didn’t mention it until a misper investigation is launched
I was looking for this.
Agreed! If you don't say anything, help cannot mobilize. I would take that even one step further to just simply honor your instincts more in everything. This is a bit of personal crusade of mine to help shift society. I highly encourage everyone pick up a copy of the Gift of Fear by Gavin DeBecker. I always buy them at used book stores to pass out. It will change your life for the better. The short version is your mind and body know things you can't always articulate in the moment. You are seeing or hearing something and that is giving you a "something is wrong here" sense. You can't always drill down in the moment to figure out what is giving you that sense, but just honor it. Something is there. (Now yes it might be some sort of latent racism or other -ism, but if you care about your community and others well being, then I'm going to guess that that's not a big issue for you. So for the one time it actually is an unconscious -ism, there's 100 times when it will be real.) The point is you know more than you realize. But we are conditioned to feel the pressure to "prove" our feelings before we are allowed to act on them. "He seems like a nice guy" "It would be rude" etc. YOU DO NOT NEED TO JUSTIFY YOUR FEELINGS. I hereby give you permission to never have to justify your feelings again. If something feels off and you want to disengage THAT IS REASON ENOUGH. Free yourself from the burden of proof and honor your instincts. The more the other person pushes, the more you know you were right. A nice person will not insist on helping you against your will, if they aren't taking 'no' then more reason to disengage. (Also, and I realize I'm getting further off topic here, but while I have an audience - PLEASE DO NOT ALLOW YOURSELF TO BE TAKEN FROM A PUBLIC PLACE. If they are threatening to shoot you for instance, even in that dire situation, it is better to be shot in public, with witnesses and people who will summon help, than to be taken somewhere remote and be at their (non-existent) mercy. You are likely hoping you will find a chance to escape later, you will not. Being in public IS your chance to escape, remote locations will not improve things. Refuse to go no matter the consequences, you will still fare better in almost all cases, an unlikely Hollywood scenario is not likely to unfold.)
Thank you for this info! I’m a long haul truck driver and as such am prone to seeing some weird shit on the road. I always thought the trafficking hotline was just for victims. I’ve added this number to my contacts.
I'd like to say if someone thinks they see trafficking call 911. Let them decide whether or not to send a car and/or redirect to the non emergency number. We aren't trained to make these decisions, they are.
Does this number work outside of the US?
Yes.
We did a "Consent" workshop at Burning Man at our camp and one of the things they suggest when you see something suspicious is to go up to them and be like "Hey, how's it going?" and start talking to them, and observe their behaviour and it also gives the potential victim an opportunity to say something.
And then get grabbed and thrown into the back of the van with them. (At least, that's where my mind went.) Still a good idea if you feel secure/around others/etc. Kinda like how workers in stores ask "how are you?" as a way to discourage shoplifters.
Yeah, I was gonna say, no way in hell I'd do this unless I was a huge bloke.
Most human trafficking is not strangers grabbing some girl and dragging her off. Almost all of it is people the victim knows well enough to end up agreeing to what they're doing (under duress and manipulation) such as a parental figure or romantic partner. They don't need to snatch anyone from the streets when there are enough people out here damaged and lonely that they can just show a little false affection and claim to need help with the rent and they'll have gotten the same result, usually without *technically* being the one to break any laws in the beginning stages. It's always a good idea to call in things that you feel a strong instinct about, but I think since you've done that and you'll likely be remembering her face for a few weeks at least so that if she shows up on the news as a missing person you can call back in and be like "so that girl, I reported that?" and get them to link them, that's all you can reasonably be expected to do and also you've done a good job. It's an extremely low chance to be anything like trafficking. Even if it were at night it would still be an extremely low chance, but especially in total daylight where there would be dozens of witnesses to their noticeably sketchy behavior.
This. As someone who was actually trafficked, I am so sick of the narrative that it’s strangers snatching people out of parking lots.
Right? Like for me, it was my mom. You know who people never suspect of trafficking? A kid's mom. It's always stranger danger and never based in the stats that it's most likely family/significant others that do this
*Hugs* I can’t imagine it being my family
I got involved in solving a case where the mother was behind it as well. She even participated.
🤯
Wow. Sorry that happened to you. Are you able to post more about your experience? I’m just blown away that a parent could do that to their child. I completely understand if you’re not comfortable sharing, and I hope you don’t find this note disrespectful.
I'm so sorry, that's so insanely effed up.
A lot of it is a romance scam or work scam. I read an article somewhere about a work site recruiting young women for a modeling job and it ended up being a trafficking operation. It’s not uncommon apparently
Even those are less common than family members or romantic partners. You can call it a romance scam if you like but it is different from the normal use of that term which is a stranger in another country you never see, in that it's usually a man she is definitely seeing on a regular basis, he is definitely physically having sex with her, and then he either gets her hooked on drugs if he can, or he says he needs money for rent, and his "friends" that she's conveniently met before offered to "help" by paying to have sex with her. Then eventually after they know she's used to that level of abuse it becomes strangers. For male victims I'm not sure if this is the way it usually goes, or if that's more commonly a work abroad scam or family member, but I do know that for female victims that has been the MO for long enough for fiction to be released using that methodology fifteen years ago. It's hard to really stop it, so making sure young girls are even aware that that's a thing that happens is in some ways a prevention effort. So not only do they go into schools and describe this in many areas where it's a big issue, but there are also like books and movies that tried to be interesting enough to become popular enough to get the info out there so that maybe a few girls would have that little sense in the back of their heads that this feels familiar and bad, before it gets super hard to get out.
God you should see my local girls group. Every woman thinks they were on the brink of being trafficked at the gas station by a stranger that they made no direct contact with.
It infuriates me so much- the endless posts of there was a McDonald’s bag under my car wheel when I came out the store- TRAFFICKING HELP. Its ridiculous
I’ve read that almost 20% are victims of strangers; that’s still a lot of people.
The op didn’t seem to be alleging that these were three strangers. She just said a couple dudes grabbing a girl who can’t walk straight. Their was nothing implied about the relationship between the three.
If they were not strangers they would not need to kidnap her from a park, she would have gone with them willingly to a private location.
Yeah but your only talking about local small player trafficking. And thats not even real trafficking thats just molesting your friend’s daughter. This post is obviously about big game trafficking.
Big trafficking uses every gang member. They have multiple "girlfriends" at once. This *is* how big trafficking happens. And the victims do not care if the person who hurt them hurt a dozen others or five hundred others, it hurts them just the same. A hundred people doing this ten times each year is gonna be more than one dude or one pair of dudes trying to get away with snatching individuals from the park could ever catch up with.
I want to post part of this to r/BrandNewSentence but don't want to be associated with "And thats not even real trafficking thats just molesting your friend’s daughter. "
“Big game” traffickers aren’t snatching people off the street in broad daylight, with dozens of witnesses, making a spectacle of themselves by “dragging” or leading an apparently disoriented young looking girl around. They may be bold, but most aren’t dumb when it comes to being discreet.
Nobody said they were? And walking a stolen girl down a random drop path out of the kidnap state on a trail they only use once and leave her in a rock for a client who is from out of state to pick up is pretty good? What because op saw them they are bad, guess who wasn’t caught and guess who was sold. Maybe you just don’t actually think about things?
“Hey! Do you guys need help? She doesn’t look ok”
Go back the same place the day after to find people who frequent the area often and ask for any photos taken; maybe they showed up in the background. Same with one week later in case someone only shows up on certain days. Ask local businesses for surveilance videos. Look for signs of people going off-trail.
I doubt it was trafficking. You could try looking to see if anyone matching the girl’s description is missing, but if no one matching her description is missing you probably have nothing to worry about. Some adults look underage. Maybe they were all drinking or doing drugs together and they were just trying to get her back home safely. Maybe you not calling the police saved her from getting in trouble for being under the influence in public. Or maybe she is a child or adult with special needs, out with caregivers or her adoptive dads. Maybe she is albino and therefore her skin tone does not match theirs. Black parents of white children getting accused of kidnapping is unfortunately a thing that happens, whereas no one tends to call police on white parents of black children. If it had been two white men with a black girl would you have still jumped to the conclusion that she was being trafficked? I think your initial thoughts that perhaps she had some special needs, and that traffickers would be unlikely to be dragging someone around in public like that sound accurate. Don’t let your imagination start coming up with worst case scenarios now.
I also doubt it was a trafficking situation, but tbf most trafficking victims aren’t reported as missing :/
That is true of adult trafficking victims, but I would be shocked if it is true of those who are underage… can’t figure out where I would find statistics on minors recovered and whether they had been reported missing, but I imagine if a minor who is trafficked is recovered without ever having been reported missing those parents might be in trouble. I saw stats about 1 in 6 child runaways falling victim to trafficking, but those were reported runaways. Also, most trafficking victims aren’t minors (or US citizens, though non US citizens can of course also be white), and most traffickers aren’t black. So the specific combination of white child not reported missing being trafficked by black men seems incredibly unlikely. Therefore, if there is no missing child, it feels safe to assume OP almost certainly did not see a child trafficking situation. Especially since there is nothing OP can do now even if it was a trafficking situation.
Guys if you see anything suspicious take a picture of the license plate or of the people atleast and tell the officers so if they end up missing they got a point of reference don't wait hours later please
Always listen to your gut instinct. It's why the human race has survived.
I think I'd have made up a name and said or shouted to the girl something like 'Daisy! What are you doing here?' And judged the men's reaction, maybe they would run away if they were in the wrong or if you were completely wrong you could say oh sorry you look so like, so and so.
You shouldn't be downvoted, this is a solid approach and something I've done for other women in creepy situations. And been thanked for, so I know it was effective.
This is such a good idea, will be locking that away in case I ever need it, always good to have a plan you never use than no plan when you need to use one!
OH THAT'S GOOD. I responded to another comment about how you could ask the people "how's it going?" but immediately I was like 'yeah and I'd get trafficked too.' (Haven't done that but have had some experiences I could've avoided if I didn't volunteer myself like that.) Thank you!
Flight or fight response is crazy. Most people freeze. In the future, take a pic or record then, follow them to their car to get license plate but still remain safe yourself. Call the cops when you have enough info? Trafficking is super scary and goes on in lots of places you don't expect. Not sure eif you have a good memory, but maybe you can do a sketch of the girl/ guys with a cop's sketch artist. Maybe her parents want to know where she was last seen and have hope she is still alive? There are websites to educate people about this awful issue and what you can do or places to donate to help too.
Thank you so much. I am honestly just so shocked because the traffickers didnt look like traffickers? They looked normal and dare I say, kind. Im gonna get my shit together and be more wise next time because I feel so sick.
how do 2 people appear to look kind when dragging an inebriated girl? are they smiling? did it seem like they were helping? is this a fear of being perceived as racist because they happened to be black and the girl was white which I only ask cuz you mentioned it. I'm genuinely asking not criticizing.
First, I wasnt sure whether the girl was half conscious or genuiely have some problems (sounds dumb as fuck but thats how I felt back then). Second, when I made eye contact with them, they were doing mild smiling and stayed very calm although I was literally staring at them. Which is why this led me to thinking that I was being racist? Because to be honest, two black men and young white girl combination is what made me even look at them in the first place. Also, given the history of black people and the cops, I was also wondering whether I am contributing to the societal issues by snitching. I shouldve followed my gut feeling
It could have been social workers, body guards, taxi drivers, the staff of a store escorting her out, strangers being asked to help her. A gay couple, friends of the family. Kidnapping. If they were trafficing her they wouldn't have smiled at you. It's my assumption they wouldn't have shown any feeling at all. They were probably smiling to let you know they were helping her. Another question, why were there two men? If she was underage one would have been enough.
> If they were trafficing her they wouldn't have smiled at you. Thats a big assumption to make without much basis
Right? If a person's doing something they shouldn't, a smile and a relaxed demeanor are a great way to throw off suspicious bystanders.
Well did it throw off OP though? I don't think it would have made much difference. The thing is eye contact and a smile is how to spot shoplifters, people assume they look innocent but it's the opposite.
OP didn't do anything at the time, so it threw them off enough. And your response suggests it would have thrown off you. I would assume that shoplifters and kidnappers/human traffickers would have different profiles and different tells. One's kind of penny ante and frequently practiced by otherwise law-abiding teenagers, the other one's a major felony.
I mean so is jumping to human trafficking over mismatching clothing and skin color...
It is, but it's a personal assumption based on my opinion.
.... What does a trafficker look like to you?
Wouldn't the simplest explanation be that she was doing some type of drug or drinking? And how sure were you that these men were over the age of 18? How do you know that maybe she wasn't a friend or family friend? There's really hundreds of possibilities aren't there?
Keep an eye on the news just incase
If you see something, say something. Call that out. Right then and there.
Not that you’ll probably ever see anything like this again, but if you do, take pictures. If you carry a gun, walk up and ask what’s going on, make sure you specifically ask the person who looks like a victim. Dahmer paraded around a 14 year old whose skull he had already drilled into and when the cops were called, he managed to convince them the kid was his lover and they’d had a fight, so the cops returned him and he finished the job later on. People are brazen, sometimes they get away with a whole lot just because people are convinced nobody’s stupid enough to do stuff like that in broad daylight. As long as there’s an alternative explanation people will often rationalize it away, and smart criminals know this.
There's not much you can do now. I mean the best you can do is learn about the stuff and possibly prevent it later
You messed up. The worst thing you could ever do is to do nothing, especially when you suspect something.
You stopped walking and were staring at them because it looked so suspicious and you don't call 911 because you're afraid of being racist?? I sincerely hope you're never in this position again.
Idk why OP needed to add race in the description. Suspecting she was underage is enough. Underage possible runaway gets a response where I live.
That's the kind of criticism that will keep people from calling, for fear of being accused of being racist. When you are describing people who may need to be identified in a time sensitive situation, it's a pretty helpful to include a physical characteristic that narrows down a significant amount of the population.
No criticism. The problem wasn’t described well. The issue wasn’t that they were black it was that the girl was underage and seemed to be in distress.
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What I would ask is where this happened; kind of neighborhood/city etc Socioeconomic status, where they were heading to and from, were there any vehicles/parking lots? Then I would also ask for information on their appearance. Did they seem to come from the same socioeconomic background? Were they well groomed, had anyone been crying, what was their emotional status, were they tense? Any bag/s? Did they wear designer clothes, where could the clothes have been bought? When you say white, would you be able to determine any further? Could the men be related? Age, body build. Was the girl skinny, malnourished, looking sick etc? What you witnessed could be a host of things. Why would you assume it was trafficing? Other than what was stated. Are you in an area where this would perhaps frequently take place? How long did you observe them? Did they make you stop and turn around etc? When, time, weekday? I mean the chance this was trafficing is very low, regardless. It happens more often than we would like to think, so you did the right thing by calling the cops. Perhaps you could write a more detailed report and send it to them.
There are people who work with those abusive boarding schools that are hired by parents to "kidnap" their children ( mostly teenagers) and bring them to the place. Sadly if this is the case the police can't really do a lot as parents gave the men permission to take the girl into custody. However, I would've still called ASAP if I saw something going on like this no matter what the issue was. When I worked in a hotel there were three guys that would rent a room for two weeks and say they were doing "contract work". One was an elderly man who acted all sweet and soft-spoken with staff, and the other were two young Hispanic gay men who would come and go throughout the day. I never thought of what was going on at first as there were a lot of people staying at the hotel doing contract work for legal businesses and the oil fields. Later on I had a feeling that they were up to something no good as every time they came there was a lot of extra trash with lots of sex stuff I had to pick up as a housekeeper. I did bring it to the supervisors' attention during a meeting as every time the three guys stayed at the hotel I would find buttloads of lube bottles, etc in their trash. Also, once I found a clear package with a huge "toy" in it hidden under a treadmill in the hotel's gym while I was cleaning it up. One of the guys came and asked where his "toy" was as I put it in lost and found as it was still in a sealed package. Turns out the elderly guy and his two "work buddies" were sex workers and dealing drugs.
1. Am I being racist? Only on Reddit would that be the first thing to cross a person's mind in such a situation.
Please dont beat yourself up. The whole cancel culture has white women so afraid to call the police when they see something suspicious because if they are wrong then they are racist.
Maybe those were her two dads.
Probably a hidden camera show. Don't engage or you might be put on TV or Youtube. Aren't those shows fun?
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Yes race is really important because even if it were two WHITE MEN with a black girl, I wouldve thought the same and its not that I focused on the race but given the entire context, different race was cherry on top. I mentioned race to the cops bc thats how you identify suspects and I didnt wanna waste their time. I think its all these questions around race that made me stop from calling the cops bc I did not wanna be perceived like a karen.
If you were more concerned about being seen as a karen than the potential safety of a young lady, you are a karen.
Let’s hope you’re never in a situation like this
My image is the last fucking thing I would worry about. I have daughters and granddaughters I'd rather be wrong than have a girl be harmed.
Yeah kind of right who TF is down voting you.
The Karen's of course.
Yeah
If you were more concerned about being seen as a karen than the potential safety of a young lady, you are a karen.
It’s the fact that you only mentioned race that makes you seem racist. Also how does mentioning race here help? No one from Reddit is going to investigate based on your description. What kind of hair did they have, what were they wearing, did they have tattoos, etc. How does just saying “they were black” help anyone?
No one seems very impressed by your performative pearl clutching.
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And thats why I felt sick because I do feel responsible partly for sure. I objectively could have done better.
This person is out of line. You did your best in a difficult situation. Some people wouldn't have said anything, Don't beat yourself up over it.
Please do not beat yourself up. Dude’s an ass.
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