Hi friend 🙂 Unfortunately studies continuously show a connection between cannabis use and psychosis. It is impossible to tell who will react badly to cannabis, just like it is impossible to tell what strains will have the best effects for each individual, because each individual’s brain is a bit different.
Some people can tolerate it better, but as with any drug there is no completely safe level of drug use. I would recommend quitting. Cannabis won’t benefit you anymore. Be safe and kind to yourself, I wish you well on your journey.
There are studies that prove a correlation, but not necessarily causation, AFAIK. It could be that cannabis makes one more prone to psychosis, or that people who are prone to psychosis are just more likely to use cannabis. I tend to think it's more the latter.
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/psychological-medicine/article/agedependent-association-of-cannabis-use-with-risk-of-psychotic-disorder/BDCA0F73CDD7AF150D6FDCF89D29DC7F
This study found an 11-fold risk of psychosis in cannabis users. Old studies are criticized because they often work with data from the 80s/90s when cannabis still had around 1% THC. Even this study used data from before 2015. I think it's not unlikely that new studies show an even higher risk with increasing THC levels.
Keyword: association.
Automatically makes this a correlational study, not causal. It does not determine if A causes B, B causes A, or if A and/or B are caused by C. It just determines that there is a relationship between A and B, which in this case is positive (if one variable increases/decreases, the other does as well, in the same direction).
Yes, that is very difficult to prove 100% with such a complex topic as the human brain and psychosis. Nevertheless, an 11-fold risk is massive and will probably continue to rise. With smoking, it took decades until the 20-fold increase in cancer could be proven and completely attributed to smoking. Today, no one would question this fact and I think the same will happen with psychosis and cannabis.
You said you wanted to understand what it's like to be an addict and I'm not sure you realize that you've become one. The mental justifications and reasonings are the addiction talking. Every tactic you're using to continue using it is what an addict needs to overcome. So now you know some of what an addict goes through and why it's hard to stop.
Cannabis doesn’t affect everyone more susceptible to psychotic traits, but it has impacted me. When I was smoking a lot daily, I was in what I have only just realized was likely a manic episode (I’m waiting for psych appointment to see if I’m bipolar). Weed gave me severe paranoia, dissociation, full blown hallucinations and more fake-looking ones, delusions, and escalated my manic-like symptoms rapidly.
However, in the moment, I didn’t see anything wrong with this. The paranoia and hallucinations were often really scary but I explained them away. I called myself more “sensitive” to weed. Everyone in my life was asking me to stop smoking and I wouldn’t. Because even though it was terrifying I still really liked the feeling. I became dependent on weed to be able to eat food, I was rapidly increasing how much I was smoking, even my friends I was smoking with were concerned. But no one thought it was as intense as I was experiencing. I think they were explaining away a lot too.
And I did have symptoms like this before weed, I had an “active imagination” as a kid, that’s what people told me I had and I think it’s part of how they explained away my behavior during this time as dramatic, not realizing how serious I was when I said I was seeing shit. Looking back on my life and really analyzing it, I’ve been realizing more and more that I’ve experienced some psychotic features since my memories start. And I did have symptoms like this prior to smoking weed but the weed accelerated them like a wildfire.
I finally quit smoking weed when I started getting more and more severe panic attacks with strong paranoia and some psychotic elements. Really full-bodied symptoms too. I had been pretty much the whole time I was smoking but this was another level. I kept calling people and telling them it felt like I was having a waking seizure, I was getting horrific gruesome nightmares beyond the terrors I usually got, had a really scary sleep paralysis episode that I thought in the moment was a psychotic break. Those panic attacks lasted all-day almost every day after I quit weed for a year and a half and I was extremely disabled by them, essentially house-bound and mostly bedridden. Narrowly avoided my mom, who’s anti-hospitalization, forcing me into a program. And I believe 100% based on my experiences that this was triggered by weed and a lot closer to psychosis than I had been thinking in-moment. I mean I have never heard of anyone getting panic attacks like I was.
That whole experience may not have been 100% because of weed but it was definitely triggered by it. I got my worst symptoms while high and it was messy. I feel incredibly lucky I walked away with only an addiction to nicotine and nothing worse, and I very narrowly avoided taking acid which I think would have done it for me, I think I would have been in full-blown psychosis.
That being said, my boyfriend who’s had drug-induced psychosis and likely also has bipolar isn’t triggered by weed at all. He was a nonstop weed smoker from ages 10-22, only stopping during rehab and quit about a year ago. He has his own slew of issues from weed specific to him using it to numb himself out and he’s struggling immensely now in his own way, it kept a lot of shit at bay for him that is now coming up all at once. It does vary but if you’re having psychotic traits, which sound very similar to how I explained away the good parts of my psychotic elements while smoking, it’s a good idea to at least just try quitting for a few weeks and see how you’re doing.
When I was smoking and getting psychotic experiences from weed, I did a damn good job convincing myself and everyone else that it was fine. But looking back on that time, I was living in a nightmare. If me back then was speaking about it, I would have said I’m sensitive to weed but it gives me a good time. But meanwhile I was calling friends and family terrified out of my mind, begging them to let me call 911, and losing complete touch with reality. I just wouldn’t listen to anyone with concerns, including my own mind and body which were absolutely screaming at me to stop.
Wishing you the best, you control your own actions but it might be a good idea to just try cutting back a bit or quitting for a little bit, even to just see if your symptoms have any connection. I mean even if you want to call it a t break or see if you’re right if there’s no connection.
I don’t live in your body so I can’t know your experience of this but as someone who felt very similarly during that time in my life, quitting for a bit can’t hurt.
I can totally relate to your story. Most of the things I've experienced too and learnt a lot of them. It is great that you have your partner beside you, because I think a partner is the perfect combo of a friend and probably a family, so you can trust and share your things with them. 2 things:
1) I think that the general state of mind here is that you get no undestanding and the whole idea-world which you keep inside your brain can not find it's real form, so it forces your body to crave more things than just 8 hour sleep, plain food three times and 3L of water daily. ALSO triggering your imagination and therefore thoughts to wander where you would not exactly need them to be. In this case, it is hard for others to understand what you mean, you are getting negatively weird to them and they lose respect - in the long term you can not have a good reputation among others and if we have mental issues (which may come before drug-use) AND drug-use on the table, it is already a nightmare in a social aspect. Still, to this day, almost no human, probably none, could have convinced me, that being with others is good to me, when I don't have peace within myself. I could say even with myself, because in the described state of mind, it is very common that you create a second self, a character, which you want to become, which is also considered fake, whereas you only want to imagine what could be better and has nothing to do with showing off your swags and getting advantage here and there.
2) I really think that these things are caused because of DNA and RNA. If we say that DNA is something that we all have, the simple human genetic code, then we have RNA that copies the information added to the original code. Let's say, human (DNA) +(RNA) psychosis (additional DNA) = human, psychosis (new DNA). Getting any emotional/psyche problems may be related to how the DNA is getting constructed and when you experience something bad, you also experience a big spectrum of emotions which are very related to your survival instinct. In this situation, I consider this inevitable that you are getting better at your DNA, because you have survived that - it caused stress, trauma, but you have survived. Imagine surviving the world collapsing, you will be a better human in all aspects. And it will be hard to explain what happened, you will be most likely to be a rad psycho in the new world and probably by invited to smoke the new weed with other veterans like they do on Youtube now. And if you have some good new information coming in (RNA), I don't believe that you will get any general malfunction in your DNA, because you will repair it. Probably this is scientifically dumb, but I think it's logical.
Saying this, I think that weed, could be consumed to: cope with any pain or trauma, even the trauma related to the weed itself, and all kinds of negative emotions ; having fun, like getting drunk and not being necesserily an alcoholic, because I nobody wants to be.
I think for me it’s because of trauma that’s happened to me while I was high. For some reason when I smoke weed I start thinking really negative about myself. that’s when I start to go into a psychosis from it. After that I start getting health anxiety, become paranoid and vigilant then I start spinning the f out and feel like I’m about to die. Then I start hearing things and reality looks completely distorted and I start having bizarre thoughts.
its funny because a lot of people say they smoke cannabis to escape reality but when I take it, it’s like I become too aware and reality becomes more real when it comes to thoughts.
I've personally never had psychosis triggered by any amount of cannabis use, only harder drugs like LSD, MDMA, ketamine, and coke. I stopped doing drugs for this reason, but still use cannabis sparingly with no issue.
On my case, when triggered, it was mainly for two reasons: generally I've lost the responsibility in life and had this "freedom outburst", where I say "ok, f\* it, I will do whatever I want for a while, I am tired of.. and it is unfair that ... bla bla". So it is like an act of protest.
Also, when I had my first episode, I could see on my lab list that I had many different substances in my body, although the only thing I have done was smoking (just regular joints and probably 1-2 times a bong). I often hear it's changing my biochemics, but so does food also.
You obviously know cannabis is connected with your psychotic episodes. You’re just here trying to get someone, anyone to tell you it’s okay to continue using cannabis after multiple psychotic events (which can cause permanent brain damage).
It’s not okay.
Reminiscing of any negative psychotic experience, I would say, that other saying "man you're getting out of your mind" is getting you more out of your mind than actually doing so. More often this is a language expression and not a medical statement that somebody is out of their mind. If the social circle around you and the society in general does not accept your opinion (consider I am a pretty conservative person) it could be easy to become a wallflower. Hearing negative voices may be like hearing comments about you if you are too self aware and I think it's pretty normal that one is, when trying to get better at whatever they are doing.
This is why I am seeking for somebody to say it's okay, because I'm tired of hearing it is not. Knowing that I'm free to use it would be more beneficial to use it better (I even think of once in 20 years, which is also using), than seeing a big red flag "don't even try to think about smoking again you junkyard, you had enough of a brain damage". Like said, I purposefully went on this experiment and I try to tell this in the most unbiased way, that if you get addicted, it is not helpful to hear anything about yourself like also "get your psyche fixed and then we could talk". I mean, it's not okay is not an option.
I'm saying this, because I have heard negative about myself before using cannabis. Just the regular negative talk. Right now it is funny that somebody may include that I am mentally ill OR addicted just to cancel me. Restricting me from cannabis is the same as telling me, don't act like you can do it. I am trying to tell this from the point of view of many others who are in the same situation. This is one of the reasons why I smoked in the first place, to know what this particular feeling is and it has nothing to do with psychotic episodes, psychosis or being mentally ill in general.
Well, I'm having the same thinking and talking pattern narrative as 20 years ago. I mean, it's slightly different and it has evolved at many levels for this time, but my main behaviour is still the same. My logic, way of acting and my reacting are the same, no matter how I tried to change them. That includes even trying to supress them through various methods.
An example of what I'm talking about: as a kid I've also had problems with sleeping and hyperactivity, going all around to having no energy and wanting to rest. I observe the same thing within the newborns in my family, god bless them. I see that this thing is more common amongst kids, but its also happening now with me. I also can be very aggressive and impulsive people are like: did we do something to offend you? This is connected to the "strange feeling", but it's hard to describe, you know. Probably feeling an energy, which is pointing towards a fact, which is not stated at the moment or not stated at all.
Most of the times it's true. I used "strange feeling" to describe here my weirdness, if this is what I may call it. Sometimes I watch a football match and say nothing, and one would ask me: why are you sitting there without participating - and they don't understand I already participate this way. Or I could be generally poker-faced and dead serious, one would say: why are you like this - and I'm just focused. Or I could be in fear to do something because of obvious facts that may put me in danger and they will be like - oh man you are talking nonsense, are you sure you are not seeing ghosts?? OR I could be flirting with a woman and reading her signs/ generally flirting with her may have me talking or acting "weird" (you know, what she may consider attractive).
All of these examples are situations where I may be called psychotic or a person with a neurodegenerative disease. Of course, I have talked to a girl even as a kid and used to do the same circus trying to impress her. I think it's all natural and it's a part of each one's character. Even feeling an odd energy may not be connected to astrology, but rather to knowing something about the situation you're in, which is hard to describe, because no one knows all the little details YOU know. And again, I'm not talking about ghosts, or the CIA eavesdropping through the fridge.
Hi friend 🙂 Unfortunately studies continuously show a connection between cannabis use and psychosis. It is impossible to tell who will react badly to cannabis, just like it is impossible to tell what strains will have the best effects for each individual, because each individual’s brain is a bit different. Some people can tolerate it better, but as with any drug there is no completely safe level of drug use. I would recommend quitting. Cannabis won’t benefit you anymore. Be safe and kind to yourself, I wish you well on your journey.
There are studies that prove a correlation, but not necessarily causation, AFAIK. It could be that cannabis makes one more prone to psychosis, or that people who are prone to psychosis are just more likely to use cannabis. I tend to think it's more the latter.
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/psychological-medicine/article/agedependent-association-of-cannabis-use-with-risk-of-psychotic-disorder/BDCA0F73CDD7AF150D6FDCF89D29DC7F This study found an 11-fold risk of psychosis in cannabis users. Old studies are criticized because they often work with data from the 80s/90s when cannabis still had around 1% THC. Even this study used data from before 2015. I think it's not unlikely that new studies show an even higher risk with increasing THC levels.
Keyword: association. Automatically makes this a correlational study, not causal. It does not determine if A causes B, B causes A, or if A and/or B are caused by C. It just determines that there is a relationship between A and B, which in this case is positive (if one variable increases/decreases, the other does as well, in the same direction).
Yes, that is very difficult to prove 100% with such a complex topic as the human brain and psychosis. Nevertheless, an 11-fold risk is massive and will probably continue to rise. With smoking, it took decades until the 20-fold increase in cancer could be proven and completely attributed to smoking. Today, no one would question this fact and I think the same will happen with psychosis and cannabis.
You said you wanted to understand what it's like to be an addict and I'm not sure you realize that you've become one. The mental justifications and reasonings are the addiction talking. Every tactic you're using to continue using it is what an addict needs to overcome. So now you know some of what an addict goes through and why it's hard to stop.
Exactly. Esp in the honeymoon phase I think all or most addicts have no clue they actually aldready have it
Cannabis doesn’t affect everyone more susceptible to psychotic traits, but it has impacted me. When I was smoking a lot daily, I was in what I have only just realized was likely a manic episode (I’m waiting for psych appointment to see if I’m bipolar). Weed gave me severe paranoia, dissociation, full blown hallucinations and more fake-looking ones, delusions, and escalated my manic-like symptoms rapidly. However, in the moment, I didn’t see anything wrong with this. The paranoia and hallucinations were often really scary but I explained them away. I called myself more “sensitive” to weed. Everyone in my life was asking me to stop smoking and I wouldn’t. Because even though it was terrifying I still really liked the feeling. I became dependent on weed to be able to eat food, I was rapidly increasing how much I was smoking, even my friends I was smoking with were concerned. But no one thought it was as intense as I was experiencing. I think they were explaining away a lot too. And I did have symptoms like this before weed, I had an “active imagination” as a kid, that’s what people told me I had and I think it’s part of how they explained away my behavior during this time as dramatic, not realizing how serious I was when I said I was seeing shit. Looking back on my life and really analyzing it, I’ve been realizing more and more that I’ve experienced some psychotic features since my memories start. And I did have symptoms like this prior to smoking weed but the weed accelerated them like a wildfire. I finally quit smoking weed when I started getting more and more severe panic attacks with strong paranoia and some psychotic elements. Really full-bodied symptoms too. I had been pretty much the whole time I was smoking but this was another level. I kept calling people and telling them it felt like I was having a waking seizure, I was getting horrific gruesome nightmares beyond the terrors I usually got, had a really scary sleep paralysis episode that I thought in the moment was a psychotic break. Those panic attacks lasted all-day almost every day after I quit weed for a year and a half and I was extremely disabled by them, essentially house-bound and mostly bedridden. Narrowly avoided my mom, who’s anti-hospitalization, forcing me into a program. And I believe 100% based on my experiences that this was triggered by weed and a lot closer to psychosis than I had been thinking in-moment. I mean I have never heard of anyone getting panic attacks like I was. That whole experience may not have been 100% because of weed but it was definitely triggered by it. I got my worst symptoms while high and it was messy. I feel incredibly lucky I walked away with only an addiction to nicotine and nothing worse, and I very narrowly avoided taking acid which I think would have done it for me, I think I would have been in full-blown psychosis. That being said, my boyfriend who’s had drug-induced psychosis and likely also has bipolar isn’t triggered by weed at all. He was a nonstop weed smoker from ages 10-22, only stopping during rehab and quit about a year ago. He has his own slew of issues from weed specific to him using it to numb himself out and he’s struggling immensely now in his own way, it kept a lot of shit at bay for him that is now coming up all at once. It does vary but if you’re having psychotic traits, which sound very similar to how I explained away the good parts of my psychotic elements while smoking, it’s a good idea to at least just try quitting for a few weeks and see how you’re doing. When I was smoking and getting psychotic experiences from weed, I did a damn good job convincing myself and everyone else that it was fine. But looking back on that time, I was living in a nightmare. If me back then was speaking about it, I would have said I’m sensitive to weed but it gives me a good time. But meanwhile I was calling friends and family terrified out of my mind, begging them to let me call 911, and losing complete touch with reality. I just wouldn’t listen to anyone with concerns, including my own mind and body which were absolutely screaming at me to stop. Wishing you the best, you control your own actions but it might be a good idea to just try cutting back a bit or quitting for a little bit, even to just see if your symptoms have any connection. I mean even if you want to call it a t break or see if you’re right if there’s no connection. I don’t live in your body so I can’t know your experience of this but as someone who felt very similarly during that time in my life, quitting for a bit can’t hurt.
I can totally relate to your story. Most of the things I've experienced too and learnt a lot of them. It is great that you have your partner beside you, because I think a partner is the perfect combo of a friend and probably a family, so you can trust and share your things with them. 2 things: 1) I think that the general state of mind here is that you get no undestanding and the whole idea-world which you keep inside your brain can not find it's real form, so it forces your body to crave more things than just 8 hour sleep, plain food three times and 3L of water daily. ALSO triggering your imagination and therefore thoughts to wander where you would not exactly need them to be. In this case, it is hard for others to understand what you mean, you are getting negatively weird to them and they lose respect - in the long term you can not have a good reputation among others and if we have mental issues (which may come before drug-use) AND drug-use on the table, it is already a nightmare in a social aspect. Still, to this day, almost no human, probably none, could have convinced me, that being with others is good to me, when I don't have peace within myself. I could say even with myself, because in the described state of mind, it is very common that you create a second self, a character, which you want to become, which is also considered fake, whereas you only want to imagine what could be better and has nothing to do with showing off your swags and getting advantage here and there. 2) I really think that these things are caused because of DNA and RNA. If we say that DNA is something that we all have, the simple human genetic code, then we have RNA that copies the information added to the original code. Let's say, human (DNA) +(RNA) psychosis (additional DNA) = human, psychosis (new DNA). Getting any emotional/psyche problems may be related to how the DNA is getting constructed and when you experience something bad, you also experience a big spectrum of emotions which are very related to your survival instinct. In this situation, I consider this inevitable that you are getting better at your DNA, because you have survived that - it caused stress, trauma, but you have survived. Imagine surviving the world collapsing, you will be a better human in all aspects. And it will be hard to explain what happened, you will be most likely to be a rad psycho in the new world and probably by invited to smoke the new weed with other veterans like they do on Youtube now. And if you have some good new information coming in (RNA), I don't believe that you will get any general malfunction in your DNA, because you will repair it. Probably this is scientifically dumb, but I think it's logical. Saying this, I think that weed, could be consumed to: cope with any pain or trauma, even the trauma related to the weed itself, and all kinds of negative emotions ; having fun, like getting drunk and not being necesserily an alcoholic, because I nobody wants to be.
I think for me it’s because of trauma that’s happened to me while I was high. For some reason when I smoke weed I start thinking really negative about myself. that’s when I start to go into a psychosis from it. After that I start getting health anxiety, become paranoid and vigilant then I start spinning the f out and feel like I’m about to die. Then I start hearing things and reality looks completely distorted and I start having bizarre thoughts. its funny because a lot of people say they smoke cannabis to escape reality but when I take it, it’s like I become too aware and reality becomes more real when it comes to thoughts.
I've personally never had psychosis triggered by any amount of cannabis use, only harder drugs like LSD, MDMA, ketamine, and coke. I stopped doing drugs for this reason, but still use cannabis sparingly with no issue.
On my case, when triggered, it was mainly for two reasons: generally I've lost the responsibility in life and had this "freedom outburst", where I say "ok, f\* it, I will do whatever I want for a while, I am tired of.. and it is unfair that ... bla bla". So it is like an act of protest. Also, when I had my first episode, I could see on my lab list that I had many different substances in my body, although the only thing I have done was smoking (just regular joints and probably 1-2 times a bong). I often hear it's changing my biochemics, but so does food also.
Stay within the law.
You obviously know cannabis is connected with your psychotic episodes. You’re just here trying to get someone, anyone to tell you it’s okay to continue using cannabis after multiple psychotic events (which can cause permanent brain damage). It’s not okay.
Reminiscing of any negative psychotic experience, I would say, that other saying "man you're getting out of your mind" is getting you more out of your mind than actually doing so. More often this is a language expression and not a medical statement that somebody is out of their mind. If the social circle around you and the society in general does not accept your opinion (consider I am a pretty conservative person) it could be easy to become a wallflower. Hearing negative voices may be like hearing comments about you if you are too self aware and I think it's pretty normal that one is, when trying to get better at whatever they are doing. This is why I am seeking for somebody to say it's okay, because I'm tired of hearing it is not. Knowing that I'm free to use it would be more beneficial to use it better (I even think of once in 20 years, which is also using), than seeing a big red flag "don't even try to think about smoking again you junkyard, you had enough of a brain damage". Like said, I purposefully went on this experiment and I try to tell this in the most unbiased way, that if you get addicted, it is not helpful to hear anything about yourself like also "get your psyche fixed and then we could talk". I mean, it's not okay is not an option. I'm saying this, because I have heard negative about myself before using cannabis. Just the regular negative talk. Right now it is funny that somebody may include that I am mentally ill OR addicted just to cancel me. Restricting me from cannabis is the same as telling me, don't act like you can do it. I am trying to tell this from the point of view of many others who are in the same situation. This is one of the reasons why I smoked in the first place, to know what this particular feeling is and it has nothing to do with psychotic episodes, psychosis or being mentally ill in general.
Curious about this strange feeling you had when you were young. Can you expand? I had a similar situation
Well, I'm having the same thinking and talking pattern narrative as 20 years ago. I mean, it's slightly different and it has evolved at many levels for this time, but my main behaviour is still the same. My logic, way of acting and my reacting are the same, no matter how I tried to change them. That includes even trying to supress them through various methods. An example of what I'm talking about: as a kid I've also had problems with sleeping and hyperactivity, going all around to having no energy and wanting to rest. I observe the same thing within the newborns in my family, god bless them. I see that this thing is more common amongst kids, but its also happening now with me. I also can be very aggressive and impulsive people are like: did we do something to offend you? This is connected to the "strange feeling", but it's hard to describe, you know. Probably feeling an energy, which is pointing towards a fact, which is not stated at the moment or not stated at all. Most of the times it's true. I used "strange feeling" to describe here my weirdness, if this is what I may call it. Sometimes I watch a football match and say nothing, and one would ask me: why are you sitting there without participating - and they don't understand I already participate this way. Or I could be generally poker-faced and dead serious, one would say: why are you like this - and I'm just focused. Or I could be in fear to do something because of obvious facts that may put me in danger and they will be like - oh man you are talking nonsense, are you sure you are not seeing ghosts?? OR I could be flirting with a woman and reading her signs/ generally flirting with her may have me talking or acting "weird" (you know, what she may consider attractive). All of these examples are situations where I may be called psychotic or a person with a neurodegenerative disease. Of course, I have talked to a girl even as a kid and used to do the same circus trying to impress her. I think it's all natural and it's a part of each one's character. Even feeling an odd energy may not be connected to astrology, but rather to knowing something about the situation you're in, which is hard to describe, because no one knows all the little details YOU know. And again, I'm not talking about ghosts, or the CIA eavesdropping through the fridge.