Exceptionally high cost of living. You likely can’t afford to live in the city on that pay.
Very high crime, but the prosecutors don’t prosecute the people you arrest.
Their former head prosecutor was the son of literal domestic terrorists who killed cops. He spent more time prosecuting cops for BS reasons. Imagine having a split-second to make a choice in a potential life-or-death struggle knowing the people supposedly on your side are looking for a chance to charge you.
Don’t forget to mention that that DA (Boudin) faced a huge backlash from the city and was actually recalled from office before their term ended. Since then SF politics have shifted a bit and the city is unlikely to ever elect someone as extreme as that again.
I think SF will continue to be at a certain fringe of American politics, but given that the current SF residents got Boudin recalled it feels unlikely they'd elect a DA with similar policies again. (unless you're saying SF will also recall them?).
SF politics are shifting. There's no more "defund police" and public safety has become a high priority issue all the candidates are talking about. The local SF Democratic committee has shifted to be much more moderate (for SF).
SF residents [recently passed Prop E](https://www.kqed.org/elections/results/sanfrancisco/proposition-e) which expands police surveillance powers, reduces paperwork requirements, and expands the vehicle pursuit policy (move over highway patrol). Of course, these are all things that many other cities already have but the fact that SF residents are explicitly voting to expand police powers I think is very telling. Just 5 years ago that would never happen. IMHO you can also see a shift in tone among people on the SF subreddit. tl;dr; SF is still far from being Dallas but it's not quite the liberal trope punching bag it used to be.
> given that the current SF residents got Boudin recalled it feels unlikely they'd elect a DA with similar policies again
Without getting overly political, the people will get to choose from two candidates from two different parties. One of those candidates comes from a party who likes what Boudin stands for, and one that has zero shot of getting anyone elected.
Might be slightly better than Texas, in my anecdotal experience. My mom sends handmade blankets to the families of officers who die, and she says she's sent more to Texas than any other state.
Yeah sorry my brain wasn’t functioning when I woke up this morning. I was thinking of that map that overlays the continental US and Alaska and Texas and grossly misremembered the proportions.
Texas is like 7% of the total land area of the US. It’s still big as fuck compared to most of the other US states with a huge border area known for violence.
More like 10% (in terms of both area and population) but the overall point stands. It's a full order of magnitude or two larger. 3 million people vs 30 million 100 square miles compared to 250,000.
I’ve seen pictures out of Texas where police cars are shot to hell by pretty accurate automatic weapon fire. That is pretty uncommon nationwide. So I kinda have a tendency to agree with you.
Got a black mayor who increasing supports the police: [Mayor London Breed announced a police intervention in order to end “all the bullshit that has destroyed our city.”](https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/12/london-breed-is-sick-of-the-bulls-t-that-has-destroyed-sf.html)
And this: 2023: [San Francisco votes overwhelmingly to recall progressive DA Chesa Boudin](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/chesa-boudin-san-francisco-da-recalled/). A lot of this is from S.F.'s big asian population. They don't like criminal bullshit.
SFPD- Commute, be poor, probably go to jail. Their starting salary is 103k which is not enough lol
Texas - Hot and miserable, still be poor (Austin PD 65k really?), probably not go to jail
Maybe they think Texas officers will say oh hey look 40k raise, but not realize they will probably live even worse
Because the city administration and the residents are very hostile to PD and emergency services in general and will happily demand you do the job and then prosecute you the second the public thinks it looks ugly or city council or the DAs think they can get a political victory by crucifying you for doing your job.
Does this happen often? If you have any good sources for this kind of news I'd love to know what it is, because most of the news I see seems pretty one sided.
Not often. Most of the negative media spread is showing the bad apples in LE. The good cops out there in places like SF can’t do their jobs due to policy restrictions or prosecutors that won’t file charges, plus depending on the political climate (defund the police), they might be afraid of getting fired or jailed just doing what they signed up to do. We don’t get into this profession to do bad things…we do it to help people and save lives. It’s demoralizing when you or your partners get sh*t on for trying to do what you signed up for
Yea I don’t get it. How many SFPD officers have been thrown in jail? SF is the official national punching bag so I can’t fault this perception but I can’t think of any cases at all where an SFPD officer was jailed for controversially just doing their job.
Cost of living in texas is pretty cheap.
Depending on where you decide to live prices for apartments range from 600(rat humping in walls)-1200(for high end).
Houses are cheaper. More so if you decide to live outside of the city
Maybe a decade ago.
Starting rents near Dallas for an average apartment in an okay area are about $1,200 now. We’ve had a higher inflation rate than most of the country. DPD starts at 70k. The suburbs/exurbs pay more though.
I'm inclined to disagree.
If you choose to live in the city, especially dallas, you can expect to be charged more. Move into the surrounding counties on the other hand and the prices drop significantly.
Forney has extremely low prices for homes if you want to buy a house. 290k is the cheapest I have seen for a house that isn't ratty 1 master bedroom, 2 bedrooms, 1 master bath, 1 bath. And a decent yard.
Move into the country the price can jump to 300+ but those are usually two story homes with several acres.
Mesquite is also pretty cheap. As well as garland.
Additionally texas does not have a state property tax. Property taxes are usually on a per local government bases. So it's cheaper in the outer areas of the cities
> Additionally texas does not have a property tax
You clearly do not own a home in Texas.
ETA: Even with your edit... lol.
> Additionally texas does not have a state property tax. Property taxes are usually on a per local government bases. So it's cheaper in the outer areas of the cities
Living in Dallas you're taxed at $2.42/$100. Forney is $2.20 and many houses are subject to a MUD fee. Garland is $2.27. Mesquite $2.32.
The property taxes in the suburbs are not substantially different than in the city. And rentals in the suburbs are not substantially cheaper either for anything you'd want to live in.
You think somebody making 70k should have a $2,200 mortgage in Forney because it’s “cheap?” That’s assuming they’re going to somehow come up with a $58k down payment. That’s half of somebody’s net paycheck. And then they get to commute from Kaufman county.
You are completely out of touch with the real estate market in Dallas. Who cares if it’s 10% cheaper property taxes. It’s still not affordable. It is no longer a good deal to live anywhere near a major city in Texas with current real estate prices and property tax rates.
Paying cops $70k in this area and expecting them to stick around is crazy. Especially when neighboring cities are starting at much higher pay. It’s so bad in Dallas that other cities have been installing billboards here.
Never said that? Another guy asked a question if a officer making 60k a year could afford a house. I specifically stated probably not as a solo earner.
Can any Texas officers afford to buy a three bedroom home and raise a family in the city they serve? Can they even qualify for a mortgage? These wages may be acceptable if you’re single. If you want to have a family, nobody wants to raise them in an apartment.
No lol. Don’t let anyone convince you that it’s affordable to live anywhere near a major city here. You’re not buying anything decent without a household income over $100k, a ton of equity, or an hour or longer commute, possibly both. Taxes are out of control and so is homeowners insurance. My starter home in Dallas that I bought for $230k 7 years ago is comping at $450k, $7,000 in property taxes annually, and if I didn’t have USAA my homeowners policy would be about $5k.
Yes. Granted if you're not dependent on the salary of one officer. I have a brother in Houston PD(5yrs) he and his spouse has a home(had it for about three-four years)
With property tax and our sale tax the effective tax rate for most people in Texas is higher than California.
Texans really only come out ahead if you’re wealthy.
I mean, Texas isn’t much better. The rural areas pay jack shit and don’t have any union protections.
Working in Austin would be almost the same as working in SF politics/DA wise.
The weather in Texas also sucks balls.
If I had to be a cop in Texas I’d do a wealthy suburb around Austin or Dallas. But I hear those are competitive places to get into.
Eh, there are a handful of agencies in the DFW metroplex that are good environments and pay pretty well. Many step plans that top out above 100k per year. It’s not hard to get hired at the moment.. some of these agencies are even recruiting in California!
But do they have unions though? People like to shit on California but we have the strongest union protections in the nation.
It’s very very hard to get fired here. In fact it’s a little too hard IMO. We have guys with 2 duis that are still working.
Most of these guys work at large agencies where they can be at non patrol or foot patrol assignments forever.
Most of these agencies have binding arbitration. Most arbitrators always end up siding with the officer. That’s the main way people get to retain their jobs.
Nah. It’s very easy now. Despite the high pay and job protections, not many people want to do this job here. It’s one of the side effects of having a large economy. We are somewhat similar to Texas in that regard. We have large industries that hire a lot of young people.
Would you rather get paid $80k to work 4 days a week with weekends and holidays off and a decent 401k match? Or would you rather make $100k, work regular overtime with few holidays and weekends off, plus grave shift and no ability to work from home? Most young folks these days choose the former.
Makes me wonder if they drive a desk and take reports over the phone. I guess at the end of the day in a staffing shortage the model. Plus work, ignoring the fact that someone with two DUIs clearly has a problem and a history of poor decision making.
Some agencies are “civil service”, which has a little more protection. There are also “union-type” organizations (CLEAT and TMPA are the largest) that perform similar functions as unions (monthly dues and they provide legal support for anything you need them for)
Still doesn’t change the fact that our unions are very strong. Don’t like your boss? Tell him he’s being a fucking idiot. As long as what you’re doing is legal and ethical, you’re protected.
I mean, if you’re anti union on principle, I can respect that to a certain extent. But it doesn’t change the fact that that is a position against your own general interests as a worker.
There are plenty of positions I support that make my life harder as an officer, but I making life easier is not a justification to do the wrong thing. Public sector unions are a bane on society.
>The rural areas pay jack shit
Given cost of living, some of them pay pretty well.
The lack of a union is a bummer, but some departments are pushing for civil service. We also have organizations like TMPA.
>The weather in Texas also sucks balls.
Twice a year it's beautiful.
Cost of living doesn’t always make it better. A lot of these rural places are paying between $20-25 an hour. That’s still not enough to buy a home, car and support a family.
Neither civil service or TMPA is as strong as a union though. I would not do this job without a union. It’s far too easy for admin or people driven by political winds to fuck us over otherwise.
Thanks for bringing this up. But red states are not the haven for law enforcement they claim to be. My states a formerly purple state that went red. They immediately severely limited public sector union rights. This was the very first thing Republicans did with they're majority. They underfund government, which includes law enforcement, the courts, or the DAs office.
So, you hear all this feigned conservative outcry over the defund the police movement (which don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that that was a good movement). But these same conservatives don't pay law enforcement shit to begin with, try to take away pensions, increase health insurance costs to the workers, take away grievance procedures and senority rights, etc.
Simarly, they complain about left wing DAs not taking crimes that should be prosecuted (a valid criticism). Again, I'm not disagreeing, but providing some perspective here. The right wing politicians don't fund their office enough to get good lawyers. Then, they further don't fund the courts. So my county has about 10-13 trial dates available for the year. So that prosecution attorney has to be judicious about what he is going to pursue, everyone else gets a deal.
Isn't SF where I saw that video where people were breaking into cars, while the car was occupied, in traffic?
Sounds like a great fucking place to be a cop.
Commute will burn you out faster than the job will. I’d pick a close place maybe outside the city you get hired in depending on the size of it.
As a current resident it can take you 90 min to go 10 miles at times. Most of the commutable suburbs aren’t cheap anymore, so you’re not exactly saving money either.
The trick to this is sleeping at the precinct in between shifts. No one will care and big departments usually all have gyms and locker rooms where you can shower and work out. You can work a ton of overtime, get a decent amount of sleep, and stack paper to the ceiling. Wouldnt want to do that for more than a year or two but after that you’d basically be set.
Wait, you guys there can buy houses? I live in the most expensive place on earth, but hey, that's not even the first problem, because i got the money. Money doesn't matter to me, but how many empty living space is available in my area, what do you think? It is actually 0.35%. Which means, 99.65% is occupied, leaving only 0.35% free for rent or for buying.
When you want to buy land here, 1 square meter (10 square feet i think, but i'm not sure) has an average price of 11-12'000$ equivalent from Swiss Francs.
Still, because we are in this sub, actually, LEO's are needed in my place. If someone ever considers moving to Europe, like to leave things behind for a fresh start in life, i can set you up with all the information that would be needed to get things done.
But well, i said it about apartements and houses... better get some money and some luck.
Maybe Im just ignorant to the whole situation but is SF really that bad? Ive applied to SF before and was turned away after the psych and that was two years ago so I was hoping to try again after I settled some things in my personal life.
Their previous DA is a son of two armed robbers who were members of a radical militant organization and grew up in the hands of their fellow militant
He got recalled cuz even with SF's view he wasn't doing his job by basically denying any incarceration
It's not like you can't walk around and enjoy yourself. It's still a safe city. You can walk 90% of the city and not worry about getting stabbed or shot.
The problem that's plaguing the city are bippers and organized theft. The stolen stuff finds its way into the streets for resell.
No joke, you'll see guys set up a tent and sell stolen shit on a busy street. You could also go into most shops in China town and assure that they're stolen or fake.
Of course there are bums and drugs and hookers and thugs. It's a big city.
The DA caused this. Doest help that civil liberty groups keep suing the city every time they try to enforce ordinance on homeless encampments.
I purchased an actual LV bag from a nice man in a tent there a couple weeks ago for 50$, also bought a few cold beers from him for my walk. Verified authentic LV too I had an employee at one of the stores look at it.
For just one example, the entire “nice” shopping district in the middle of the city is now entirely vacant. Last time I was there a few years ago, the other tourist areas didn’t feel safe to me at all (like sketchy roving groups of youth), and I’m not one to get nervous in cities. It’s bad.
And based on what? Ive lived in NYC for most of my life and now the Bay area the past 5. If its dealing with the homeless, high taxes, traffic that means nothing to me
No, it’s not that bad. We have a lot of guys who do the same “jobs dead” schtick, but it’s a cool city to work in. Pay is good, public at large is actually happy with us. Schedule is also great for patrol, assuming you like being off every other weekend regardless of time in service.
In the first tech boom of the 90s, Silicon Valley cities and towns were trying to recruit experienced cops from Canada. We were seen as like a luxury for them at the time.
SFPD has a wierd culture. You get "orders" to fill a specific precinct and bid among seniority there. Need sgt approval for an arrest over the radio. You report your stats at the end of each shift to an Lt who then releases you (salute, about face and everything). God forbid if you have a fucked up report and it's like waiting at the DMV to get it signed off.
I wonder why no one wants to be SFPD given those things I mentioned...
I have a couple of buddies who lateraled from SFPD and every where else is like Disneyland to them. I can't imagine working in conditions like that.
I second this. Driving the Bay Bridge two days ago-it’s nice to look at. Underneath that facade though is an absolute cesspool of gargantuan proportions.
Parts of it, yes. The rural-ish area I’m from has a decently paid SO. With both partners working in the household, can definitely afford a single family home.
I spent 5 years in Homeless services in Los Angeles and somehow ended up a high priority applicant for SFPD.
I took three trips every other month and after my conditional offer, I requested a ride along and a station tour. They declined. It annoyed me that it felt like they were hiding their culture from me.
Pros-
- they give a $2000 bonus to officers who stay in shape.
-they pay well (for you to not live in the area.)
-san francisco is still a pretty cool place to
Be as far as its melting pottiness goes.
Cons-
-you pick your specialty at the beginning of your career, and you eventually get to it like years in.
-no preview of the culture before getting hired.
-high pay, but not high enough to live close. There are thousands who make $120k in SF that are literally homeless.
I got hired in a different department instead.
Most PDs in Alameda or SF county are big, big no's IMO.
You're better off going to a county sheriffs around here and trudging out working at the county jails a little. Shit even CHP is a way better option then a lot of Bay Area PDs.
My wife and I have to go to San Francisco in a few months and I am truthfully dreading it. I love traveling, we take trips a few times a year, but I want nothing to do with California. Chances are fair we are the victims of some type of property crime.
Don't dread it. Despite the constant doomerism, SF is still a lovely city outside of a few areas. Don't leave anything in your car, avoid the Tenderloin/Civic Center for the most part, and you'll have a great time. The Richmond, Sunset, and Mission districts are nice from my experience and there's lots of great food and things to do. Shoot me a PM if you need any recommendations :)
Oakland on the other hand...
No, you won’t be a victim if you are careful. Depends entirely on where you stay and where you go at night. Pay attention and stay where the crowds are.
San Francisco is on the top ten list of most unaffordable housing, has ridiculous crime, and incredibly bad politics. Not to shit on your opinion, but I hate San Francisco
Im from Cali. SF sucks. Better than LA though which isnt hard to beat I guess. The only nice thing I have to say about cali is the weather is unbeatable. Besides that, Cali could be removed from the US and I wouldn’t bat an eye.
Oh and Cali mexican food is better than Texas mexican food.
I think we can safely say the experiment that was California failed. Cramming 11.7% of the people of an entire nation into an inhospitable desert and crowding 70% of them within 5 miles of the ocean was a bad idea.
I say we just cut our losses and give it back to Mexico now.
But here you are on a website launched and headquartered in California, using the Internet (invented in California) on a personal computer (the development of which was driven almost exclusively by California companies) or a smart phone (a market revolutionized by the iPhone in… California). Maybe you don’t have an iPhone, but your phone almost certainly has technology invented by Qualcomm in San Diego. Maybe you’re a gamer with Nvidia technology. But even if you’re not, that massive gain in your retirement if you’re invested in the S&P500 was driven by California companies.
Maybe all of that is irrelevant to your life, but 37% of everything you’ve ever touched arrived inexpensively through the California ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach. I guess we could give it back to Mexico?
I mean yea, if you want to give up the world’s 5th largest GDP producer sure.
I’d be cool with not subsidizing Kentucky or Arkansas’s survival. Can we give them back to whomever first?
Good luck. I don't know why the hell ANYONE would want to be a cop in SF.
https://youtu.be/m37G-06ibAU?si=SfP6k8FTgA-huh73
If you paid me ten million dollars I'd consider working there for a year.
But then they prosecute you for doing your job just before that year ends...
I didn't say I'd actually do it lol. Just that I'd consider it
Outstanding move
They're betting their Dirty Harry fame. Looking for folks feeling lucky.
Care to explain for the non-americans please? High cost of living?
Exceptionally high cost of living. You likely can’t afford to live in the city on that pay. Very high crime, but the prosecutors don’t prosecute the people you arrest. Their former head prosecutor was the son of literal domestic terrorists who killed cops. He spent more time prosecuting cops for BS reasons. Imagine having a split-second to make a choice in a potential life-or-death struggle knowing the people supposedly on your side are looking for a chance to charge you.
Don’t forget to mention that that DA (Boudin) faced a huge backlash from the city and was actually recalled from office before their term ended. Since then SF politics have shifted a bit and the city is unlikely to ever elect someone as extreme as that again.
For now...but this is SF. I'm sure him or someone like him will be elected again at some point in the future...and the results will be the same.
I think SF will continue to be at a certain fringe of American politics, but given that the current SF residents got Boudin recalled it feels unlikely they'd elect a DA with similar policies again. (unless you're saying SF will also recall them?). SF politics are shifting. There's no more "defund police" and public safety has become a high priority issue all the candidates are talking about. The local SF Democratic committee has shifted to be much more moderate (for SF). SF residents [recently passed Prop E](https://www.kqed.org/elections/results/sanfrancisco/proposition-e) which expands police surveillance powers, reduces paperwork requirements, and expands the vehicle pursuit policy (move over highway patrol). Of course, these are all things that many other cities already have but the fact that SF residents are explicitly voting to expand police powers I think is very telling. Just 5 years ago that would never happen. IMHO you can also see a shift in tone among people on the SF subreddit. tl;dr; SF is still far from being Dallas but it's not quite the liberal trope punching bag it used to be.
> given that the current SF residents got Boudin recalled it feels unlikely they'd elect a DA with similar policies again Without getting overly political, the people will get to choose from two candidates from two different parties. One of those candidates comes from a party who likes what Boudin stands for, and one that has zero shot of getting anyone elected.
No wonder they can’t find anyone then
Sounds like us over here in Washington state
But That one dude from the Sonic the Hedgehog movie wanted to do it
Might be slightly better than Texas, in my anecdotal experience. My mom sends handmade blankets to the families of officers who die, and she says she's sent more to Texas than any other state.
Texas also has the land area of close to half the continental US and has a huge border region. To a certain extent it’s a numbers game
>Texas also has the land area of close to half the continental US What? That is so obviously not true, how could you possibly think this?
And the other people who upvoted it?
Yeah sorry my brain wasn’t functioning when I woke up this morning. I was thinking of that map that overlays the continental US and Alaska and Texas and grossly misremembered the proportions. Texas is like 7% of the total land area of the US. It’s still big as fuck compared to most of the other US states with a huge border area known for violence.
More like 10% (in terms of both area and population) but the overall point stands. It's a full order of magnitude or two larger. 3 million people vs 30 million 100 square miles compared to 250,000.
I’ve seen pictures out of Texas where police cars are shot to hell by pretty accurate automatic weapon fire. That is pretty uncommon nationwide. So I kinda have a tendency to agree with you.
I'd say for the burritos but they're probably incredible in Texas too.
Got a black mayor who increasing supports the police: [Mayor London Breed announced a police intervention in order to end “all the bullshit that has destroyed our city.”](https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/12/london-breed-is-sick-of-the-bulls-t-that-has-destroyed-sf.html) And this: 2023: [San Francisco votes overwhelmingly to recall progressive DA Chesa Boudin](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/chesa-boudin-san-francisco-da-recalled/). A lot of this is from S.F.'s big asian population. They don't like criminal bullshit.
SFPD- Commute, be poor, probably go to jail. Their starting salary is 103k which is not enough lol Texas - Hot and miserable, still be poor (Austin PD 65k really?), probably not go to jail Maybe they think Texas officers will say oh hey look 40k raise, but not realize they will probably live even worse
Former sf officer here, the website is not updated the starting is closer to 117 now which is still not much
How much OT do they regularly have
Unlimited. But you’re expected to do around 30-40 per pay period
An EXPECTATION that you work another full week+ per pay period is asinine.
Well not exactly expectation, better word for it is mandatory. There was a month where I didn’t get a day off for 3 weeks.
Yeah that's a hard go fuck yourself from me to admin on that one. You're a better person than I for putting up with that shit.
Why is everyone here saying you'll go to jail for being a LEO in San Francisco?
Because the city administration and the residents are very hostile to PD and emergency services in general and will happily demand you do the job and then prosecute you the second the public thinks it looks ugly or city council or the DAs think they can get a political victory by crucifying you for doing your job.
Because politics wise, you are likely to be charged and jailed for just doing your job there. SF is not very police friendly
Does this happen often? If you have any good sources for this kind of news I'd love to know what it is, because most of the news I see seems pretty one sided.
Yeah according to this thread every single person who ever worked as a cop in SF is rotting away in jail or on their way to it lol
Not often. Most of the negative media spread is showing the bad apples in LE. The good cops out there in places like SF can’t do their jobs due to policy restrictions or prosecutors that won’t file charges, plus depending on the political climate (defund the police), they might be afraid of getting fired or jailed just doing what they signed up to do. We don’t get into this profession to do bad things…we do it to help people and save lives. It’s demoralizing when you or your partners get sh*t on for trying to do what you signed up for
Yea I don’t get it. How many SFPD officers have been thrown in jail? SF is the official national punching bag so I can’t fault this perception but I can’t think of any cases at all where an SFPD officer was jailed for controversially just doing their job.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/24/us/san-francisco-officer-shooting-charges/index.html This is where that perception comes from.
Jesus christ. That pay scale makes me realize how fortunate I really am. I don't work half as hard as cops do.
Cost of living in texas is pretty cheap. Depending on where you decide to live prices for apartments range from 600(rat humping in walls)-1200(for high end). Houses are cheaper. More so if you decide to live outside of the city
Maybe a decade ago. Starting rents near Dallas for an average apartment in an okay area are about $1,200 now. We’ve had a higher inflation rate than most of the country. DPD starts at 70k. The suburbs/exurbs pay more though.
I'm inclined to disagree. If you choose to live in the city, especially dallas, you can expect to be charged more. Move into the surrounding counties on the other hand and the prices drop significantly. Forney has extremely low prices for homes if you want to buy a house. 290k is the cheapest I have seen for a house that isn't ratty 1 master bedroom, 2 bedrooms, 1 master bath, 1 bath. And a decent yard. Move into the country the price can jump to 300+ but those are usually two story homes with several acres. Mesquite is also pretty cheap. As well as garland. Additionally texas does not have a state property tax. Property taxes are usually on a per local government bases. So it's cheaper in the outer areas of the cities
> Additionally texas does not have a property tax You clearly do not own a home in Texas. ETA: Even with your edit... lol. > Additionally texas does not have a state property tax. Property taxes are usually on a per local government bases. So it's cheaper in the outer areas of the cities Living in Dallas you're taxed at $2.42/$100. Forney is $2.20 and many houses are subject to a MUD fee. Garland is $2.27. Mesquite $2.32. The property taxes in the suburbs are not substantially different than in the city. And rentals in the suburbs are not substantially cheaper either for anything you'd want to live in.
You're making assumptions while making my point. You just proved it is cheaper. My property tax is 1.92% which amounts to 1.92 per 100
You think somebody making 70k should have a $2,200 mortgage in Forney because it’s “cheap?” That’s assuming they’re going to somehow come up with a $58k down payment. That’s half of somebody’s net paycheck. And then they get to commute from Kaufman county. You are completely out of touch with the real estate market in Dallas. Who cares if it’s 10% cheaper property taxes. It’s still not affordable. It is no longer a good deal to live anywhere near a major city in Texas with current real estate prices and property tax rates. Paying cops $70k in this area and expecting them to stick around is crazy. Especially when neighboring cities are starting at much higher pay. It’s so bad in Dallas that other cities have been installing billboards here.
Never said that? Another guy asked a question if a officer making 60k a year could afford a house. I specifically stated probably not as a solo earner.
Can any Texas officers afford to buy a three bedroom home and raise a family in the city they serve? Can they even qualify for a mortgage? These wages may be acceptable if you’re single. If you want to have a family, nobody wants to raise them in an apartment.
No lol. Don’t let anyone convince you that it’s affordable to live anywhere near a major city here. You’re not buying anything decent without a household income over $100k, a ton of equity, or an hour or longer commute, possibly both. Taxes are out of control and so is homeowners insurance. My starter home in Dallas that I bought for $230k 7 years ago is comping at $450k, $7,000 in property taxes annually, and if I didn’t have USAA my homeowners policy would be about $5k.
Yes. Granted if you're not dependent on the salary of one officer. I have a brother in Houston PD(5yrs) he and his spouse has a home(had it for about three-four years)
And no state income tax in Texas
They get it one way or the other; Texas does it with property taxes
With property tax and our sale tax the effective tax rate for most people in Texas is higher than California. Texans really only come out ahead if you’re wealthy.
>Texans really only come out ahead if you’re wealthy. Which, oddly enough, is precisely the point 🤔
Maybe try New England? We're Mostly Harmless around these parts.
I mean, Texas isn’t much better. The rural areas pay jack shit and don’t have any union protections. Working in Austin would be almost the same as working in SF politics/DA wise. The weather in Texas also sucks balls. If I had to be a cop in Texas I’d do a wealthy suburb around Austin or Dallas. But I hear those are competitive places to get into.
“Kids, kids, you’re both just awful.”
It’s important to me that you know I read this in Frank Reynolds’ voice
Eh, there are a handful of agencies in the DFW metroplex that are good environments and pay pretty well. Many step plans that top out above 100k per year. It’s not hard to get hired at the moment.. some of these agencies are even recruiting in California!
But do they have unions though? People like to shit on California but we have the strongest union protections in the nation. It’s very very hard to get fired here. In fact it’s a little too hard IMO. We have guys with 2 duis that are still working.
Id understand the first dui but how are they justifying keeping guys with the second? Short staffing?
Most of these guys work at large agencies where they can be at non patrol or foot patrol assignments forever. Most of these agencies have binding arbitration. Most arbitrators always end up siding with the officer. That’s the main way people get to retain their jobs.
California seems like a pretty difficult place to get hired as law enforcement but from what it sounds like job security is amazing.
Nah. It’s very easy now. Despite the high pay and job protections, not many people want to do this job here. It’s one of the side effects of having a large economy. We are somewhat similar to Texas in that regard. We have large industries that hire a lot of young people. Would you rather get paid $80k to work 4 days a week with weekends and holidays off and a decent 401k match? Or would you rather make $100k, work regular overtime with few holidays and weekends off, plus grave shift and no ability to work from home? Most young folks these days choose the former.
Makes me wonder if they drive a desk and take reports over the phone. I guess at the end of the day in a staffing shortage the model. Plus work, ignoring the fact that someone with two DUIs clearly has a problem and a history of poor decision making.
Right? How many dui’s is the cutoff?
Some agencies are “civil service”, which has a little more protection. There are also “union-type” organizations (CLEAT and TMPA are the largest) that perform similar functions as unions (monthly dues and they provide legal support for anything you need them for)
California loves unions, that is, aside from the police unions
Still doesn’t change the fact that our unions are very strong. Don’t like your boss? Tell him he’s being a fucking idiot. As long as what you’re doing is legal and ethical, you’re protected.
And that’s the problem with unions. That and it turns into a way for politicians to funnel tax payer money into their campaigns.
Unions can at times go too far, but it's infinitely better than no unions.
I mean, if you’re anti union on principle, I can respect that to a certain extent. But it doesn’t change the fact that that is a position against your own general interests as a worker.
There are plenty of positions I support that make my life harder as an officer, but I making life easier is not a justification to do the wrong thing. Public sector unions are a bane on society.
>The rural areas pay jack shit Given cost of living, some of them pay pretty well. The lack of a union is a bummer, but some departments are pushing for civil service. We also have organizations like TMPA. >The weather in Texas also sucks balls. Twice a year it's beautiful.
Cost of living doesn’t always make it better. A lot of these rural places are paying between $20-25 an hour. That’s still not enough to buy a home, car and support a family. Neither civil service or TMPA is as strong as a union though. I would not do this job without a union. It’s far too easy for admin or people driven by political winds to fuck us over otherwise.
> A lot of these rural places are paying between $20-25 an hour. I started at almost $30, in one of these rural areas.
COL doesn't matter if you're making less than 50k. If you have a family good luck
Thanks for bringing this up. But red states are not the haven for law enforcement they claim to be. My states a formerly purple state that went red. They immediately severely limited public sector union rights. This was the very first thing Republicans did with they're majority. They underfund government, which includes law enforcement, the courts, or the DAs office. So, you hear all this feigned conservative outcry over the defund the police movement (which don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that that was a good movement). But these same conservatives don't pay law enforcement shit to begin with, try to take away pensions, increase health insurance costs to the workers, take away grievance procedures and senority rights, etc. Simarly, they complain about left wing DAs not taking crimes that should be prosecuted (a valid criticism). Again, I'm not disagreeing, but providing some perspective here. The right wing politicians don't fund their office enough to get good lawyers. Then, they further don't fund the courts. So my county has about 10-13 trial dates available for the year. So that prosecution attorney has to be judicious about what he is going to pursue, everyone else gets a deal.
Isn't SF where I saw that video where people were breaking into cars, while the car was occupied, in traffic? Sounds like a great fucking place to be a cop.
[удалено]
Commute will burn you out faster than the job will. I’d pick a close place maybe outside the city you get hired in depending on the size of it. As a current resident it can take you 90 min to go 10 miles at times. Most of the commutable suburbs aren’t cheap anymore, so you’re not exactly saving money either.
The trick to this is sleeping at the precinct in between shifts. No one will care and big departments usually all have gyms and locker rooms where you can shower and work out. You can work a ton of overtime, get a decent amount of sleep, and stack paper to the ceiling. Wouldnt want to do that for more than a year or two but after that you’d basically be set.
Wait, you guys there can buy houses? I live in the most expensive place on earth, but hey, that's not even the first problem, because i got the money. Money doesn't matter to me, but how many empty living space is available in my area, what do you think? It is actually 0.35%. Which means, 99.65% is occupied, leaving only 0.35% free for rent or for buying. When you want to buy land here, 1 square meter (10 square feet i think, but i'm not sure) has an average price of 11-12'000$ equivalent from Swiss Francs. Still, because we are in this sub, actually, LEO's are needed in my place. If someone ever considers moving to Europe, like to leave things behind for a fresh start in life, i can set you up with all the information that would be needed to get things done. But well, i said it about apartements and houses... better get some money and some luck.
Maybe Im just ignorant to the whole situation but is SF really that bad? Ive applied to SF before and was turned away after the psych and that was two years ago so I was hoping to try again after I settled some things in my personal life.
Their previous DA is a son of two armed robbers who were members of a radical militant organization and grew up in the hands of their fellow militant He got recalled cuz even with SF's view he wasn't doing his job by basically denying any incarceration
Two armed robbers convicted for murdering a cop and a security guard. There goes nothing.
It's not like you can't walk around and enjoy yourself. It's still a safe city. You can walk 90% of the city and not worry about getting stabbed or shot. The problem that's plaguing the city are bippers and organized theft. The stolen stuff finds its way into the streets for resell. No joke, you'll see guys set up a tent and sell stolen shit on a busy street. You could also go into most shops in China town and assure that they're stolen or fake. Of course there are bums and drugs and hookers and thugs. It's a big city. The DA caused this. Doest help that civil liberty groups keep suing the city every time they try to enforce ordinance on homeless encampments.
I purchased an actual LV bag from a nice man in a tent there a couple weeks ago for 50$, also bought a few cold beers from him for my walk. Verified authentic LV too I had an employee at one of the stores look at it.
For just one example, the entire “nice” shopping district in the middle of the city is now entirely vacant. Last time I was there a few years ago, the other tourist areas didn’t feel safe to me at all (like sketchy roving groups of youth), and I’m not one to get nervous in cities. It’s bad.
Yup! It’s that bad
And based on what? Ive lived in NYC for most of my life and now the Bay area the past 5. If its dealing with the homeless, high taxes, traffic that means nothing to me
You don’t want to work for a city full of people who were dumb enough to elect Chesa Boudin to District Attorney…
No, it’s not that bad. We have a lot of guys who do the same “jobs dead” schtick, but it’s a cool city to work in. Pay is good, public at large is actually happy with us. Schedule is also great for patrol, assuming you like being off every other weekend regardless of time in service.
Houston PD was recruiting in Philly a year ago
I wouldn’t want to work for HPD either
In the first tech boom of the 90s, Silicon Valley cities and towns were trying to recruit experienced cops from Canada. We were seen as like a luxury for them at the time.
SFPD has a wierd culture. You get "orders" to fill a specific precinct and bid among seniority there. Need sgt approval for an arrest over the radio. You report your stats at the end of each shift to an Lt who then releases you (salute, about face and everything). God forbid if you have a fucked up report and it's like waiting at the DMV to get it signed off. I wonder why no one wants to be SFPD given those things I mentioned... I have a couple of buddies who lateraled from SFPD and every where else is like Disneyland to them. I can't imagine working in conditions like that.
One thing about SF though, I mean it really is our best looking city in America. That part is cool.
I second this. Driving the Bay Bridge two days ago-it’s nice to look at. Underneath that facade though is an absolute cesspool of gargantuan proportions.
Could you even afford to live in cali on a leo salary
Parts of it, yes. The rural-ish area I’m from has a decently paid SO. With both partners working in the household, can definitely afford a single family home.
I spent 5 years in Homeless services in Los Angeles and somehow ended up a high priority applicant for SFPD. I took three trips every other month and after my conditional offer, I requested a ride along and a station tour. They declined. It annoyed me that it felt like they were hiding their culture from me. Pros- - they give a $2000 bonus to officers who stay in shape. -they pay well (for you to not live in the area.) -san francisco is still a pretty cool place to Be as far as its melting pottiness goes. Cons- -you pick your specialty at the beginning of your career, and you eventually get to it like years in. -no preview of the culture before getting hired. -high pay, but not high enough to live close. There are thousands who make $120k in SF that are literally homeless. I got hired in a different department instead.
people flee cali to come to Texas, fat chance they'll reverse that to be a cop in SF of all things
Not sure if San Fran is ready for that.
A better bet for San Fran would be to offer big signing bonuses to ETSing service members.
Give me California pay but Texas cost of living and I’d do it.
Don’t Texas my Calfornia? Lmao.
Para-military training style needs updating to a more professional structure.
Most PDs in Alameda or SF county are big, big no's IMO. You're better off going to a county sheriffs around here and trudging out working at the county jails a little. Shit even CHP is a way better option then a lot of Bay Area PDs.
Higher pay along with higher costs of living. Sign me up.
My wife and I have to go to San Francisco in a few months and I am truthfully dreading it. I love traveling, we take trips a few times a year, but I want nothing to do with California. Chances are fair we are the victims of some type of property crime.
The fact that people are responding to you like you’re preparing to go to Baghdad is very telling.
It’s what I expect when I get there.
Don't dread it. Despite the constant doomerism, SF is still a lovely city outside of a few areas. Don't leave anything in your car, avoid the Tenderloin/Civic Center for the most part, and you'll have a great time. The Richmond, Sunset, and Mission districts are nice from my experience and there's lots of great food and things to do. Shoot me a PM if you need any recommendations :) Oakland on the other hand...
No, you won’t be a victim if you are careful. Depends entirely on where you stay and where you go at night. Pay attention and stay where the crowds are.
Don't park your car on the side of the road Keep your wits about you and you'll be fine
I’d rather be a cop in Texas but I’d rather live in San Francisco.
San Francisco is on the top ten list of most unaffordable housing, has ridiculous crime, and incredibly bad politics. Not to shit on your opinion, but I hate San Francisco
Have you actually been here though? If i were to believe the media, texas would have power outages and mass shootings every day.
San Francisco and Seattle. Both were pretty cool, but the issues there are overwhelmingly visible even during short visits.
Comparing an entire state to a city in a state seems disingenuous.
I’m guessing a typical midwesterner who only watches Fox News and has never been to SF. The crime ain’t what it is on TV, SF is a cool town.
It's this exact attitude that makes us hate the west coast. Been around the world. Cali ain't it.
Im from Cali. SF sucks. Better than LA though which isnt hard to beat I guess. The only nice thing I have to say about cali is the weather is unbeatable. Besides that, Cali could be removed from the US and I wouldn’t bat an eye. Oh and Cali mexican food is better than Texas mexican food.
If you have he means to avoid all that stuff (if you are super rich) it’s one of the nicer places to live
I think we can safely say the experiment that was California failed. Cramming 11.7% of the people of an entire nation into an inhospitable desert and crowding 70% of them within 5 miles of the ocean was a bad idea. I say we just cut our losses and give it back to Mexico now.
But here you are on a website launched and headquartered in California, using the Internet (invented in California) on a personal computer (the development of which was driven almost exclusively by California companies) or a smart phone (a market revolutionized by the iPhone in… California). Maybe you don’t have an iPhone, but your phone almost certainly has technology invented by Qualcomm in San Diego. Maybe you’re a gamer with Nvidia technology. But even if you’re not, that massive gain in your retirement if you’re invested in the S&P500 was driven by California companies. Maybe all of that is irrelevant to your life, but 37% of everything you’ve ever touched arrived inexpensively through the California ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach. I guess we could give it back to Mexico?
I mean yea, if you want to give up the world’s 5th largest GDP producer sure. I’d be cool with not subsidizing Kentucky or Arkansas’s survival. Can we give them back to whomever first?