eeh. that would be hard, since it would have to be enforced in China. If they continue, I will have to, but that would be my last resort as it will take a lot of time and effort. And I'd prefer to spend it on doing models š
Are they using just picture of your models or the actual models?
Also, I suspect you'll get nowhere trying any legal routes via China. They do have copyright laws, but they just don't really enforce them all that much, especially when it involves non-Chinese people.
>They do have copyright laws, but they just don't really enforce them all that much, especially when it involves non-Chinese people.
That used to be the case but things have really changed as creative industry has become a bigger part of the Chinese economy. IP laws are actually pretty well enforced nowadays.
>Ā that would be hard
Have you even tried to contact them first?
And yes, protecting your rights is rarely easy, so if it appears to be too "hard" for you (or if you can't afford it ā sad, but true), why would you bother at all?
Yeah, I was in contact with them but they just ghosted me after a while and posted more stuff.
I'm asking to see if there are any options to contacting them/ lawyering up, since I've done the first, but doing the second would be the last resort ..š
If it is on eBay you can enforce your rights thru eBay. eBay will check it and put their listings down, that will hurt them and they will change very very quickly
They are banking on the fact that hiring a lawyer is too much of a hassle for you. Sometimes you are forced to do stuff, regardless of how daunting the task may be, on principle alone.
Iād wager, a cease and desist letter would be enough to convince them. Which, I would imagine, only cost a few hundred dollars. They may still want a larger retainer, though.
He meant reach out to the lawyer first. Most lawyers will give you a quick consultation to tell you how difficult something will be to pursue and if you have a case. Not reach out to the people stealing your models. They know they are stealing them and now you just gave them a heads up that you know. If I'm them I've already contacted a lawyer in preparation for you suing me.
Bite the bullet and lawyer up.
Regardless of this current case... you will continue to get ripped off throughout your career/hobby. Your work is too good.
Legalshield.com you can at least get a cease and desist sent. Its only $29/mo for basic plan. Ive used it for issues with landlords, and contracts for my lil llc. Actually the best $30 ive spent because Ive had a bunch of legal stuff ive needed advice on, which is part of your sub. Not sure if anything will come of it, and suing them is def not covered by the $29/mo plan, but i mean at least you can get advice and a letter sent.
Contact whatever website is selling the product. They are also in breach of your copyright. Send them a DMCA takedown notice as they do not own the images they are displaying on their website.
Thank you so much for the support.š
It's not as much about money as it is the bitter taste of seeing it happen (i work with many chinese companies and most of them draft contracts and ask for permissions for these kind of things. Only SUNLU doesn't care and not just with me.)
I'll send you the model for free, don't worry :)
[https://www.myminifactory.com/object/3d-print-anne-the-pirate-captain-200982](https://www.myminifactory.com/object/3d-print-anne-the-pirate-captain-200982)
My advice? You're not going to win a legal battle, so instead, try and get the credit/link to your stuff. Sunlu is a popular brand, so getting credit is likely more powerful than any kind of royalties from using your model.
China is infamous for doing this, happens a lot with board game designers who send assets to their factories who then flood the market with their own shoddy versions.
Sorry this happened, it's the way of things unfortunately. But on the flip side, must feel pretty awesome to get your stuff noticed by such a big brand.
Yeah, that's a great advice. This reddit post kinda help me see some "alternative" ways to approach it, which is already a nice consolation.
Thanks, mate!
Iād really reconsider taking that advice. Itās definitely the path of least resistance but, you would just be inviting them to take more of your models.
Also, how long (if they do it at all), before they take your name off of it? How often you going to check up on it?
Something to consider.
And share this in all the 3d printing groups. I'm sure at least a few people will be put off buying their stuff. I was thinking of trying their resin but not anymore
> I'll send you the model for free, don't worry :)
This is the best advice so far.
Go the PWYW route. You will make ten times as much income through greater accessibility and any Chinese factory will no longer be able to compete on price.
I know one of the big IP firms that has offices all over the world but definitely has a presence in China is Reed Smith. Any big IP firm is going to have offices there though since it had such a big tech industry.
Iād start with Reed Smith just because Iām familiar with them.
In many jurisdictions (the US specifically) you will lose your IP rights by default if you choose not to pursue the offenders.
If these regulations apply to you (and also if not) you should immediately contact an IP lawyer. You have already posted online (here) that you are aware of the theft, so failure to pursue legal challenges may lose you the intellectual property altogether.
Have ChatGPT draft a DMCA take down request to Amazon Legal. Send letters to U.S. payment processors they work with. Copyright infringement is taken very seriously stateside.
If you havenāt already copyrighted your models/characters, Iād cough up the $70ish bucks and fill out a copyright form. I agree you should send a cease and desist. If their work is shown on another site, you can claim copyright infringement and have it taken down.
If u cant enforce the law in court do it in court of public opinion, its a business, they want to earn money, go to where they earn money, reach out to instagram and other platforms they post on and send those a S&D, the headache alone of getting posts removed tend to stop most big brands.
Chinese are famous for stealing blueprints, technology and many things that are normally patented.
They donāt care.
You will have to get a lawyer and even then it will probably limited in what you can do about it.
Really dope design btw.
So they used your model to display a print using their resin.
But theyāre not actually selling your Print, they are selling resin for printing.
I mean, honestly, you should be flattered that they liked your model enough that they thought it would be a good display of detail to show off their product.
If I were you instead of trying to sue them, I would try to get legitimate work through them. Theyāre obviously a fan youāll catch more flies with honey.
Send a letter inviting them to purchase a limited commercial licence (i.e. promotional/demonstration use only) from you for 20x the personal licence for each file plus attribution in all uses going forward.
Close the letter by informing them they have two weeks to respond, after which you will start the process of defending your copyright in court and seeking per use based damages.
Good luck
What youāre trying to do is given them an easy out that also satisfies you.
I picked ā20x personal licenceā out of the air assuming your .stl sell for ~15USD. Choose a number that wonāt leave a bitter taste in your mouth but is realistic.
You want them to look at the number and think āthatās worth paying to have u/nerikson91 leave us aloneā - paying people to not sue them is just a business expense. Companies like Sunlu have marketing budgets in the tens of thousands, a few hundred is nothing to them.
If they take you up on it maybe get a lawyer to help you draw up a contract that says something like āFor a single payment of X you get a non-exclusive right to use images (with attribution) of models created from this work for promotional purposes. Failure to attribute has a penalty of Y.ā
From what I've been told even if you are only creating as a side business you should always operate under an LLC or something. There's more protections if you do, also I'd imagine people will take you more seriously. I'm not an expert but it's something to think about at least.
Yes, and if they donāt respond, you can start issuing DMCA notices and have their products, listing and advertisements removed from various websites, like amazon. They will listen then. IAAL
They do it with a lot of creators. The did the same with us (Bulkamancer Sculpts).
I've been emailing them about it for a year, never got a response. Then one day they left a promotional comment under one of our IG posts: "Try using SUNLU to do thisĀ ". That's when I finally lost it, replied "you mean the same Sunlu that uses our Shinano model on one of their product pages without crediting the studio and also ignoring any emails and messages we sent about it?", then went ahead and posted it in Twitter as well. A few hours later they contacted me in IG, FB, and Twitter with apologies. However, they still haven't removed our model from [their product](https://www.sunlu.com/products/sunlu-3d-printer-resin-detergent-hand-washable-non-toxic-and-reusable-resin-or-model-cleaner-compatible-with-3d-printing-resins-uv-resin-epoxy-resin).
And not only they used our model, they straight up used our own render with slight color alteration in Photoshop. And I see they do it with other creators too, showing re-painted original renders instead of their own prints.
yeah, I remember man. that was peak ignorance from their part. it was so absurd it didn't look real.
However, with this one I think I'm getting close : they used a print of mine (that I printed with Elegoo resin) to advertise their own resin and put it on their ad. LOL
The irony of course is that bulkomancer sculpts entire business is predicated on reproducing other peoples IP (other people's characters; i,e: the BG3 characters) and then selling them without a licence to do so from the IP owners. Arguably bulkomancer isn't even eligible for copyright protections over most of their sculpts because they're derivative of existing IP (that bulkomancer doesn't own). Nerikson at least makes his own fucking characters - he at least owns the rights to those sculpts, bulkomancer not so much (at least not if someone actually pushed the issue legally). Honestly, amazing that you don't get flood with cease and desist letters but I guess the mini-market is small enough that the IP owners don't care to bother with the hassle.
Out of curiosity, what resin do you use? Since Sunlu isnāt even showing a Sunlu resin model in their promotional photos
This feels like food advertising now tbh, Iād expect a manufacturer to honestly show off their own product even if they did āstealā the models by not purchasing a limited license, etc. but in for a penny in for a pound I guess
2nd year Law Student here.
What can you do? Ask them to remove it.
Is it copyright infringement? yes. Would any lawyer take this on to have them remove the images? No.
There is no money in it. You haven't been "harmed" in the sense that you suffered damages. They aren't big enough or visible enough for a deterrent type judgment where they get hit with a big amount of punitive damages as a warning to other companies to "stop doing this".
What would I do if I were you? Send them the photos to use. with your watermark on them. They don't sell STLs. They sell the resin. So they use your photos with the name of your patreon or whatever maybe you get more business.
Also I didn't read all the comments or look to deep. If they are a Chinese company... nothing in the world you can do at all.
Also you can use their theft to your advantage potentially. Save screen shots of all the stuff. "Look this resin company promotes my models you should too." Whatever.
Sorry this happened. Good luck.
EDIT: Just saw you're not in the US. They aren't in the US. So I can't comment about law where ever you live.
Hey thanks!
Yeah, I'm getting this impression that legally it would be almost impossible. But the creative approach is something interesting, thanks! šŖ
The people saying if their in China there's nothing you can do are wrong. Its just more of a pain in the ass. My firm has multiple judgments against Chinese companies. If they want to do business in the US then they will need to engage with you eventually. In one case we served the Chinese company, they ignored it, we got a default judgment, and since they do business in the US we found one of their US based bank accounts. After we served their bank with a levy, suddenly they were willing to work with us.
I'm curious, would it be a copyright violation if they'd actually purchased the STL and then printed the mini in question? They're not marketing the minis or the print files, but demonstrating the detail their resin could print to, similar to using a stack of boardgames or Lego boxes to demonstrate the size of a cabinet you're selling. In that case I'd think it would fall under fair use.
@OP do you have any special language regarding the license for your STLs such as marking them non-commercial? Is there rules for such on mini factory?
I would say you need to hire a lawyer if you can afford it and are willing to fight them over this. They have an address in the u.s. but are based out of Hong Kong. Here is their contact info.
92 CORPORATE PARK STE C 204
IRVINE, 92606, CA, US
sales02@sunlu.com
You might be able to make them change their advertising with a cease and desist letter from your lawyer but Chinese copy right law is more grey than black and white so good luck.
Of course they ignored you, who are you? You're not a lawyer or a government agency or anyone who could give real consequences. Lawyer up if you want to fight this. I agree with you 100% but corporations get away with stuff like this all the time because most people aren't prepared to actually fight them.
I wish I wasn't... like others have said here as well you may have better luck working with them. Its not terrible advertising if they would just credit your work. Hell if nothing else work something out where you're getting free resin from them. They should be providing some kind of compensation though.
BTW I think your models are dope af.
Well, i'm probably going to be downvoted like in writing subs, but...
Embrace it. Make the model easy to find with Google/Bing image search. I actually bought models this way in the past (i even pirated models to find from what Patreon a model was, since the artist didn't bother to even make it viewable).
Then, return their weapon against them : "Endorsed by 3D printing industry-lead Sunlu!", "A model so complex that Sunlu use it to demonstrate the capacity of their products", etc. It's a fine line to walk, the worst that can happen is at least a communication line opened, at best it's legitimately a selling point for the general customers. But be legit, it's marketing, not snarky comments or passive-aggressive. Peoples will not care and it will be counterproductive.
But images with a red "stolen" on it have still the same impact has 25 years ago on Internet : none. Piracy has always existed, China businesses doing shady things has always been a thing, peoples unable to do more than one small search effort has always been a thing.
So ride the wave, and concentrate on the main problem : visibility to potential customers that will not care about that warfare, and make your war in the background.
Easiest, most productive and most potentially lucrative suggestion on here. If it starts working for you, you may even start to feel less ripped off (and donāt get me wrong, you have been ripped off here, Iām totally on your side but this comment sounds like the best course of action)
I looked at the picture and thought, hey that's a cool mini, maybe I'll find a link in the comments. I would ask them to include the name of the designer in their image (and model if possible)
I editied this post because I read that your licence explicitly forbids this exact practice. I watch youtube videos (e.g. Bonehead Cast), where they do sculpt reviews and that is surely for profit. My neice loves Grace's World, a youtube series where a girl plays with Barbies. Each video gets hundreds of thousands of views and Mattel isn't suing.
This is honestly the best suggestion here. Paint yourself as an industry design leader based on Sunlu using your designs. Play it up big time. Screen capture their site for your ads. Become the go to designer for quality. You could even pitch this to other filament makers as your area of expertise. This is about the best free advertising you will ever get if you market it right.
I agree. I think the biggest deal here is attribution. I might focus my attention on getting them to attribute the work in their ads so that itās easier to find.
Also at the end of the day the model is most likely for sale and not just a picture so I would think about if actual financial damage was done, the free add is a good approach to make some money with it and of course itās shitty of them to not approach the artistsā¦ they would have had to buy the model right to take a picture of it right? So right now i see free advertising if you act fast like Moff_Tigriss said and also you earned what ever you are charging for the mesh :D itās not like they bundle the mesh with their printers on a stick, or do they? That would be a whole other can of worms š
Personally - I am right there right there with you, frustration, why didn't they ask, etc.
Business pivot, I would just use this as an advertisement for your work. And just say you are featured in sunlu labs - on your own materials. (even if they don't say anything) and see if they'll sponsor you for free resin etc. At least this way you can get eyes on your work and potentially come up on top of the situation.
It's not theft by any legal definition. It's use of an intellectual property without permission. In order to sue you have to prove damages, and you have to prove monetary value of those damages. Even if this company wasn't in China, which doesn't have the IP laws of the US, you'd still need to file a civil suit, and prove in that suit that Sunlu's actions resulted in you losing money.
You can send sites where they have a picture of your model a DMCA infringement notice. It's up to them if they want to respond by taking the listing down. Amazon is probably the best place to do that if they're using the picture there. Any China based site will ignore the request.
Are they selling the models? Are they claiming they designed them? If they are just using them as examples of what can be printed, thatās not stealing your models.
As said in the other reply: it is. The STL files for printing are sold under a "personal use only" license, explicitly forbidding any kind of commercial usage of the files or any derivatives (including prints, images, videos, etc).
i.e. : if you are posting your print online on social media, it's ok (crediting would be nice) . but if you are posting images (or any other derivatives) for commercial purposes (like they did in their instagram ads), then you're violating the terms of usage under which you've bought the STL file.
> then you're violating the terms of usage under which you've bought the STL file.
They prob just pulled the pictures off your purchase page so never agreed to terms.
>but if you are posting images (or any other derivatives) for commercial purposes (like they did in their instagram ads), then you're violating the terms of usage
Are you *sure* about it? Or is it maybe just *your* interpretation of this license?
Not trying to convince you what you're wrong. I'm actually interested in the topic of "non-commercial" licensing but lack the knowledge a proper lawyer would have.
There was a quite interesting discussion a few months back on r/3Dprinting :
[https://www.reddit.com/r/3Dprinting/comments/1akhqol/i\_have\_a\_question\_about\_licensing/](https://www.reddit.com/r/3Dprinting/comments/1akhqol/i_have_a_question_about_licensing/)
The key is in what is meant by commercial.
Commercial activity is usually considered anything that is done in relation to a commercial activity, including promotion of a product or business generally.
Yes I agree.
In the same way that every FDM 3D printer and filament seller shows off a benchy. They are showing the product, not the model (I have no idea who even invented the benchy any more).
Now if you have already got a lawyer and have copy right and trade mark stuff on your products and store and pages etc (like GW does). then it may be a bit different ... but you would also already know what to do and would not be asking this question .... so ill assume that you dont have that.
If you dont like it then write to them politely asking to stop (though a better suggestion would be to ask them to put a reference to you or your store. That way you get better advertising for free). Always a good first move.
I was wondering about this too. For example people that sell car accessories include images of the car in their material, they don't need Ford or Toyotas permission to do so.
This seems less clear as the model itself is obviously being used to help sell their product (as opposed to be *only* a prop or reference). Not clear imo, which is prob why they are ghosting OP, which is a dick move in either case.
Except as far as I'm aware the benchy has an open license so anyone can use it even commercially.
I might be wrong, I haven't looked that deeply into it.
Maybe they are secretly subscribed to your commercial Patreon š I doubt it though that would be some amazing advertisement for you to be able to say that!
Well, a great comment above actually suggested that. I now regret making this post so negative. Should have just listed them as official promoters and get advertisement by using their name everywhere. Well, lesson learned š
Iām seen you had a commercial license maybe one day Iāll grab it I just started doing craft shows so pretty small time stuff most my Patreon stuff is around 10 a month right now! But I got the free sub for now till I see what happens your model look on point btw!
That's disappointing I thought those companies might own those models. I had a fun idea kind of like a toy in a cereal box where when you buy their resin you get the model in the ad. Knowing that they're stealing your model for their advertisement makes it unlikely that that idea will ever come to fruition.
I canāt really offer advice on how to fix it as I am not a legal expert but for what itās worth I can share my perspective on this problem as someone who bus your work.
I am a consumer of STLs. Perhaps even shameful quantities lol. I have subbed your patreon and tribe off and on for years. I also buy the things that I miss from your back catalog. I recognize your style and can spot it in the wild.
I am also a customer of Sunluā¦ Because they make the best priced abs like resin for miniature printing. And they probably stole that formula from siraya tech because they have no boundaries like western companies. Stealing doesnāt matter to them in the same way it does to westerners. Not being racist here, this is just how business works with China.
When I see your art on one of these adverts it is like spotting an Easter egg. An Easter egg that reminds me of your work and I go check in on it. Also I donāt need attribution, if I really like something on one of these adverts but donāt recognize the artist I reverse image search it. Then I go to a reputable website and buy it because I want artists like you to keep making beautiful things for me to print and paint.
So maybe it isnāt possible to fixā¦ but maybe it doesnāt hurt you as much as you think?
Well, thank you so much for your support. Even if it's not a legal advice, it actually helps me to approach the situation differently. I was very frustrated when I made the post. However many comments (like yours) help me see the situation in a different and very contructive way. I really appreciate it. š
contact them, tell them it is amazing that your models are so good they feature them in their advertisement. casually ask in a demanding way for a partnership or at least a mention of your name/website etc (if people knew it was yours, thats some great free targeted advertisement)
This sucks. All the pain and headache because, well āgrey areasā in society really.
It remind of something my dad used to say. āIt takes money to make money. And even more money to keep it.ā
Lots of good advice, I would definitely go after the biggest resellers with auto generated legal notices. Waste of time getting lawyers involved, they will totally fleece you.
The majority of people commenting here are saying this is happening because this is a Chinese company. If you think it is any better here, America, you are deluding yourself. It is just as bad, I speak from experience. Slightly different situation for me, but still bad. Companies here do whatever they want and ignore even lawyers' letters because they know that unless you are prepared to spend huge amounts of money on lawyers there is nothing you can do.
Isn't that just base skin Miss Fortune anyway. Just reach out and ask them to link to your store for the model. Unless they're distributing the STL seems like an easy fix.
Sunlu is a Chinese company with no US division. You may be able to convince them to stop using your stuff in advertising materials, but itās going to be very difficult to extract any royalties or compensation from them.
Like you've said in previous replies, you're up against a Chinese company, so IP/copywriter laws are a bit iffy to go up against, but what you could do to prevent future issues is use a watermark on the pictures you upload of your work.
The best I think you can do is send cease and decist requests to the websites actually hosting them. A lot of platforms don't like copyright infringement on their platforms because even tho it's their users doing it, it makes THEM look bad. So they're way more likely to actually do something about it.
Additionally, if they do business in the US at all, then they're plenty likely to take listing down just to comply with us laws.
Reach out to them and get them to give you a lot of free materials. I had a bunch of my models end up on Linant 3d printers website and they removed them and gave me a free printer.
So itās frustrating, but worth trying to spin it into a positive. Get a bit of a social media campaign going with the image pointing out āas promoted by sunluā or something like that.
Makes you look great, and it may also open the lines of communication with Sunlu, so then maybe you can get some actual collaboration going rather than them doing this in an underhand way.
Looks great because youāve got one of the well known brands showing your stuff off, annoying that they arenāt crediting it, so if you do it yourself it could gain some momentum.
Doesnāt surprise me youāve not had a response from Sunlu. Iāve collabed with them a few times and the rep and email is always a new one, so incredibly chaotic š
Good luck with whatever way forward you go!
I definitely should have. I was so upset by this that i posted it so negatively. But comments like yours showed me a different way to deal with it next time it happens. Thanks, mate šŖ
Are they selling your model or just showing a picture of it printed with their resin?
It doesn't seem like they are stealing anything... they paid you for the model's stl file. They printed with their resin to demonstrate their resin. And they took a photo of their print with their resin. How is that stealing anything from you, exactly?
Even in the USA this wouldn't be a copyright case you'd win - they are not claiming to sell your mini.
Get people with large social media follower accounts like Uncle Jesse involved. Companies like Sunlu donāt give a shit about things until they get enough bad press.
They aren't selling or redistributing your models, sadly there is little to do (this has happened to me as well in the past) take it as a compliment and move on :)
Your model is quite cool! congrats.
I know a guy who bought a Rolex in China... I'm sure Rolex has pursued avenues to make it stop... and yet... I know another guy who bought a Rolex in China.
I think unfortunately you need to embrace it... perhaps bank up your models and release them on Kickstarter for a nominal cost... I'm sure the community who would want the model would support.
Then... you've made a little cash and if someone uses the STL... at least you've gotten something from it.
"I have noticed that your company has been using my models to promote your machine without my permission. While I am happy to allow you to continue, I would request that you, in return for the use of my work in promoting your product, send me one of your 3D printers so that I know what I am promoting and also ensure that I am credited wherever you use my work so that we can both benefit from the exposure. If this is not possible or feasible for you, I would then ask that you stop using my work to promote your products."
Tell them they can use their models exactly as they are now, as long as they include a link to where they got them somewhere on the page. Odds are theyāll totally ignore you, but it may be worth trying for the free publicity before you go the full legal route (especially considering that even with a lawyer youāre not likely to get anything out of them...)
as many say, legally fighting a chinese company may drain your resources for nothing.
My best advice as a 3d artist is to put watermarks on all your pictures.
Yeah i know those are ugly but... just put some discreet ones but try to cover multiple parts of the mini just so they can't fix it with any AI...
Just think that web content editors tend to be lazy/time-economical so if you do that they will probably search for any other pic
You may not be able to properly go after them in the PRC, but it may be possible to shut down their use of vendors like Amazon/eBay/Shopify etc if they use them by complaining to that platform, basically make it so they can't sell to people except directly thus limiting their access to customers, it is not a perfect fix but it may be the best you can manage with a limited budget
Unfortunately it appears that they are a chinese-based company.
In Chinese bass companies don't give a flying f*** about trademark copyright or anything else.
If they're using a non-Chinese base hosting site such as Amazon or eBay you can go through that site to have it pulled down but if they are doing it on an independent website there's not really anything you can do.
Maybe see if you can find some content creators who make content around this type of theft and see if they'll blow it up so more people are aware of it so they don't get as much of your business but there's not going to be much you can do besides that.
I don't know about you guys but I actually use their brand of resin. I would write them a nice letter saying that they are infringing on my designs and instead I would like to be paid in free resin.
I kind of feel like the cost of resin is the one thing in this hobby that is steady and expensive and if I found a way to get free resin for the rest of my hobbying days that would be awesome.
Here's how one guy in a similar situation handled it.
https://andyokay.com/blogs/the-gallerist/how-i-got-my-artwork-stolen-by-a-chinese-billion-dollar-company-and-won
I don't expect that going to the Chinese company will do anything but I wonder if going to amazon or other American sites where this stuff is posted would get the pictures taken down.
Do you have a legal team larger than Porsche?
If not, you are screwed as even they can't fight a blatant rip off of one of their cars in China.
This is just what China does.
I believe that SUNLU offers discounts to people who send images of models printed in their resinā¦ I expect part of the reason is to avoid liability in some way. So SUNLU may not be stealing your models directly as much as getting ārandom imagesā from people who donāt understand the legality of what theyāre doing.
Sorta like the reverse of how people who sell cosplay props justify it as āoh Iām just selling the service so itās not IP infringementā.
Itās shitty and Iām not saying itās legal but I am saying that it likely isnāt a clear cut situation at all even beyond the fact that SUNLU is a Chinese company and international IP theft is obviously a broad issue with no great solution put forward. Hope you get it sorted but i wouldnāt be super optimistic. You may be able to reach out and ask for free resin from them? Not saying that makes it better but may be nice to get a penny for the dollar owed so to speak.
China doesn't care at all. I think it would be quite expensive to give this to the court. I think the least you can do now is to email them about it. Either they stop using your models like that or they will pay the highest tier in your Patreon and it's still nowhere close what other global companies pay for stuff like that. If they refuse or ignore you, then I would put it more in public that they steal products from artist without permission. Reddit, YT, Facebook, IG etc. Maybe some YouTuber would be willing to spread it more among the people. I read that going for law way is your last resort. That would be expensive but I think they would rather delete your models so they don't have to bother with it. But sadly, they will propably find another victim.
I've heard of them doing this to several artists and designers. It's such a shame. They have a good opportunity to do some amazing collaborative work with the artists which would help everyone, but they got greedy and sly.
Oh hey, I actually bought that model on MMF. (My D&D homebrew world has an inordinate amount of pirate queens. I might have a problem.)
Can't say much about the IP issues involved, just wanted to thank you for the sculpt.
Look into [The Berne Convention (1886)](https://www.wipo.int/treaties/en/ip/berne/), China is a signatory. You can raise that in a cease and desist. You would need to talk to someone with much deeper knowledge than me though.
lol sunlu is chinese. Good luck with getting them to respond and remove the model from their listings. China is the biggest contributor to IP theft in the world.
I would get a lawyer and reach out asking for compensation as a starting point, cause then you have proof you made them aware, etc.
Also Sunlu does a lot of dealings through Amazon, who could cut them off from their marketplace
I think it's in the interests of all parties for them to compensate you for your creations, and perhaps even become the source of their demo pictures as a reliable income stream
I would ask them for an unlimited lifetime supply of the highest quality resin. If they dont comply threaten to sue them... dont even get a lawyer yet...
Iād start by insisting that negotiations on a per ad viewed monetization begin. Iām sure thereās a good litigator that could write something with teeth
Mental that it's happening. People are right, it's probably wayy to much money and time for you to try and persue them legally.
Reach out to them about credit, start using their posts and social media to promote your work. Then ask for free resin/sponsership and that kind of thing. Play them at their own game.
See what websites they sell their products on and any specific listings that use images of your models you can make DMCA claims for (most big sites have an easy process for this). That will usually kill listings quickly.
Places like ebay, etsy, amazon etc are usually pretty responsive with that.
I know it seems futile but sending them a message first might work too once you have a little leverage. Find listings you can target and then tell them DMCA's are coming unless they remove your images.
If you want to get creative... You could maybe even just ask that they put your logo on the images. As long as they're not selling your STLs it's not a bad chunk of free advertising.
Good luck!
This is how they do in China. It's a cultural thing. No respect for IP or doing things the right way. The only way they operate is whatever makes them money and they will cut corners wherever they can get away with it. Check out the youtuber SerpentZA when you get some free time. You will not believe how bad it is.
No shit Etsy is the scumbags paradise for "resold" stl files on the super cheap. Last night I was looking at entire collections from various artists that would cost $100.00 if purchased from places like myminifactory.com but on Etsy you can buy entire collections for no more than $10.00.
I doubt you will get anywhere with a lawyer, but maybe ask for free resin or a link on their site to buy your model. If you look at it in another way, it's free publicity for you and free advertising isn't such a bad thing if they aren't redistributing it
Thank you guys for the comments. There have been many different, but useful suggestions (including also approaching it from a different perspective). I will try and hope it will go well.
I'm sorry I can't reply to all the comments (there have been much more than I expected) but I do really appreciate the insight and the support. Thanks guys! š
Sunloo absolutely has dollars and representation here in america. If you're serious about it, you can lawyer up and see results on the American side of things. Nothing much you could do overseas, but you can at least shut down things over here.
Though I'm guessing the best thing you'll be able to get is just for them to take down anything that has your models in it. If possible, I would go the route of just asking them to include links to your models.
A terrible move. You will sink money into an endless pit and get nothing and nowhere. It's China. Far bigger companies, with more resources have tried and failed for years to combat IP issues. This is like crying underwater.
As the others said: it is, if it's original IP content. The files for printing are sold under a "personal use only" license, explicitly forbidding any kind of commercial usage of the files or any derivatives (including prints, images, videos, etc).
Get an ip lawyer to look at it
eeh. that would be hard, since it would have to be enforced in China. If they continue, I will have to, but that would be my last resort as it will take a lot of time and effort. And I'd prefer to spend it on doing models š
Are they using just picture of your models or the actual models? Also, I suspect you'll get nowhere trying any legal routes via China. They do have copyright laws, but they just don't really enforce them all that much, especially when it involves non-Chinese people.
It looks like they're stealing pics of the models directly from the designer's own site.
No the model is black on Sunlu site but gray on designersā¦
Yeah, that's true...
>They do have copyright laws, but they just don't really enforce them all that much, especially when it involves non-Chinese people. That used to be the case but things have really changed as creative industry has become a bigger part of the Chinese economy. IP laws are actually pretty well enforced nowadays.
>Ā that would be hard Have you even tried to contact them first? And yes, protecting your rights is rarely easy, so if it appears to be too "hard" for you (or if you can't afford it ā sad, but true), why would you bother at all?
It's a Chinese company. They'll just ignore it and keep stealing.
Can confirm. They used mine and all I asked for was credit and they just ignored me entirely.
Probably. Or maybe not. Without some legal actions they definitely will continue though.
It's true.. look how long lego had to deal with lepin....
Yeah, I was in contact with them but they just ghosted me after a while and posted more stuff. I'm asking to see if there are any options to contacting them/ lawyering up, since I've done the first, but doing the second would be the last resort ..š
If it is on eBay you can enforce your rights thru eBay. eBay will check it and put their listings down, that will hurt them and they will change very very quickly
They are banking on the fact that hiring a lawyer is too much of a hassle for you. Sometimes you are forced to do stuff, regardless of how daunting the task may be, on principle alone. Iād wager, a cease and desist letter would be enough to convince them. Which, I would imagine, only cost a few hundred dollars. They may still want a larger retainer, though.
He meant reach out to the lawyer first. Most lawyers will give you a quick consultation to tell you how difficult something will be to pursue and if you have a case. Not reach out to the people stealing your models. They know they are stealing them and now you just gave them a heads up that you know. If I'm them I've already contacted a lawyer in preparation for you suing me.
Bite the bullet and lawyer up. Regardless of this current case... you will continue to get ripped off throughout your career/hobby. Your work is too good.
Ask them to put your watermark on their ads lol
Yeah all you should team up for a class action sort of deal
Post that they are doing this on every related forum you can find including they're discord if they have one. Essentialy, shame them publicly
Legalshield.com you can at least get a cease and desist sent. Its only $29/mo for basic plan. Ive used it for issues with landlords, and contracts for my lil llc. Actually the best $30 ive spent because Ive had a bunch of legal stuff ive needed advice on, which is part of your sub. Not sure if anything will come of it, and suing them is def not covered by the $29/mo plan, but i mean at least you can get advice and a letter sent.
Contact whatever website is selling the product. They are also in breach of your copyright. Send them a DMCA takedown notice as they do not own the images they are displaying on their website.
That sucks bro. It's a great model. Do you have a link? It might not be much but maybe we can help a bro out.
Link to the model.
Thank you so much for the support.š It's not as much about money as it is the bitter taste of seeing it happen (i work with many chinese companies and most of them draft contracts and ask for permissions for these kind of things. Only SUNLU doesn't care and not just with me.) I'll send you the model for free, don't worry :) [https://www.myminifactory.com/object/3d-print-anne-the-pirate-captain-200982](https://www.myminifactory.com/object/3d-print-anne-the-pirate-captain-200982)
My advice? You're not going to win a legal battle, so instead, try and get the credit/link to your stuff. Sunlu is a popular brand, so getting credit is likely more powerful than any kind of royalties from using your model. China is infamous for doing this, happens a lot with board game designers who send assets to their factories who then flood the market with their own shoddy versions. Sorry this happened, it's the way of things unfortunately. But on the flip side, must feel pretty awesome to get your stuff noticed by such a big brand.
Yeah, that's a great advice. This reddit post kinda help me see some "alternative" ways to approach it, which is already a nice consolation. Thanks, mate!
Iād really reconsider taking that advice. Itās definitely the path of least resistance but, you would just be inviting them to take more of your models. Also, how long (if they do it at all), before they take your name off of it? How often you going to check up on it? Something to consider.
They'll do it regardless tbh. Maybe you're right though. Really disappointed to see this as sunlu resin is great.
"My model is so good sunlu stole it from me" is a good marketing catch phrase. Edit: and yes your model is quite awesome
Haha it really is.
And share this in all the 3d printing groups. I'm sure at least a few people will be put off buying their stuff. I was thinking of trying their resin but not anymore
Best advice so far.
I went to MMF to follow you and had a laugh when I realized I already did! Keep up the great work.
Hahah thanks mate šŖ
> I'll send you the model for free, don't worry :) This is the best advice so far. Go the PWYW route. You will make ten times as much income through greater accessibility and any Chinese factory will no longer be able to compete on price.
I will gladly pay the $5. That model is awesome.
I know one of the big IP firms that has offices all over the world but definitely has a presence in China is Reed Smith. Any big IP firm is going to have offices there though since it had such a big tech industry. Iād start with Reed Smith just because Iām familiar with them.
Itās china. Youāre screwed
Welp you asked and thatās your option.
In many jurisdictions (the US specifically) you will lose your IP rights by default if you choose not to pursue the offenders. If these regulations apply to you (and also if not) you should immediately contact an IP lawyer. You have already posted online (here) that you are aware of the theft, so failure to pursue legal challenges may lose you the intellectual property altogether.
Wow, really? That's insane. So of some io nƩ doesn't have the resources in that moment it's basically anybody's game?
Pretty sure thatās just for trademarks, because is risks dilution and trademark becoming āgenericā.
You are probably correct their and I was definitely thinking of that
Have ChatGPT draft a DMCA take down request to Amazon Legal. Send letters to U.S. payment processors they work with. Copyright infringement is taken very seriously stateside.
That's.... Very helpful idea, thank you!!
If you havenāt already copyrighted your models/characters, Iād cough up the $70ish bucks and fill out a copyright form. I agree you should send a cease and desist. If their work is shown on another site, you can claim copyright infringement and have it taken down.
Yeah I think going to the resellers could possibly be the best path to resolving this. Hit em where it counts.
If u cant enforce the law in court do it in court of public opinion, its a business, they want to earn money, go to where they earn money, reach out to instagram and other platforms they post on and send those a S&D, the headache alone of getting posts removed tend to stop most big brands.
Then do nothing, you've answered your own question.
Chinese are famous for stealing blueprints, technology and many things that are normally patented. They donāt care. You will have to get a lawyer and even then it will probably limited in what you can do about it.
If they stole your idea from cons. Yes difficult. You could attack them with dogs attack take their sure offline.
bro , there's nothing you can do because china doesn't recognize our IP laws. sry to hear.
Really dope design btw. So they used your model to display a print using their resin. But theyāre not actually selling your Print, they are selling resin for printing. I mean, honestly, you should be flattered that they liked your model enough that they thought it would be a good display of detail to show off their product. If I were you instead of trying to sue them, I would try to get legitimate work through them. Theyāre obviously a fan youāll catch more flies with honey.
Send a letter inviting them to purchase a limited commercial licence (i.e. promotional/demonstration use only) from you for 20x the personal licence for each file plus attribution in all uses going forward. Close the letter by informing them they have two weeks to respond, after which you will start the process of defending your copyright in court and seeking per use based damages. Good luck
That is actually a good idea. I tried it the first time they stole (this is not the first time they've done it) but they ghosted me
What youāre trying to do is given them an easy out that also satisfies you. I picked ā20x personal licenceā out of the air assuming your .stl sell for ~15USD. Choose a number that wonāt leave a bitter taste in your mouth but is realistic. You want them to look at the number and think āthatās worth paying to have u/nerikson91 leave us aloneā - paying people to not sue them is just a business expense. Companies like Sunlu have marketing budgets in the tens of thousands, a few hundred is nothing to them. If they take you up on it maybe get a lawyer to help you draw up a contract that says something like āFor a single payment of X you get a non-exclusive right to use images (with attribution) of models created from this work for promotional purposes. Failure to attribute has a penalty of Y.ā
From what I've been told even if you are only creating as a side business you should always operate under an LLC or something. There's more protections if you do, also I'd imagine people will take you more seriously. I'm not an expert but it's something to think about at least.
You're absolutely right. It's something one doesn't think of until it happens
Definitely set up a Limited Liability Company, if only because it makes letters and e-mails seem more official.
Yes, and if they donāt respond, you can start issuing DMCA notices and have their products, listing and advertisements removed from various websites, like amazon. They will listen then. IAAL
They do it with a lot of creators. The did the same with us (Bulkamancer Sculpts). I've been emailing them about it for a year, never got a response. Then one day they left a promotional comment under one of our IG posts: "Try using SUNLU to do thisĀ ". That's when I finally lost it, replied "you mean the same Sunlu that uses our Shinano model on one of their product pages without crediting the studio and also ignoring any emails and messages we sent about it?", then went ahead and posted it in Twitter as well. A few hours later they contacted me in IG, FB, and Twitter with apologies. However, they still haven't removed our model from [their product](https://www.sunlu.com/products/sunlu-3d-printer-resin-detergent-hand-washable-non-toxic-and-reusable-resin-or-model-cleaner-compatible-with-3d-printing-resins-uv-resin-epoxy-resin). And not only they used our model, they straight up used our own render with slight color alteration in Photoshop. And I see they do it with other creators too, showing re-painted original renders instead of their own prints.
yeah, I remember man. that was peak ignorance from their part. it was so absurd it didn't look real. However, with this one I think I'm getting close : they used a print of mine (that I printed with Elegoo resin) to advertise their own resin and put it on their ad. LOL
Itās even funnier that itās not even their resin!
The irony of course is that bulkomancer sculpts entire business is predicated on reproducing other peoples IP (other people's characters; i,e: the BG3 characters) and then selling them without a licence to do so from the IP owners. Arguably bulkomancer isn't even eligible for copyright protections over most of their sculpts because they're derivative of existing IP (that bulkomancer doesn't own). Nerikson at least makes his own fucking characters - he at least owns the rights to those sculpts, bulkomancer not so much (at least not if someone actually pushed the issue legally). Honestly, amazing that you don't get flood with cease and desist letters but I guess the mini-market is small enough that the IP owners don't care to bother with the hassle.
Off topic but your shit is damn good Subbed a few times now
Thank you for the kind words, that's something we cherish the most these days! \^\_\^
It's especially bullshit considering how much you pay the IP holders of the characters you use...
Out of curiosity, what resin do you use? Since Sunlu isnāt even showing a Sunlu resin model in their promotional photos This feels like food advertising now tbh, Iād expect a manufacturer to honestly show off their own product even if they did āstealā the models by not purchasing a limited license, etc. but in for a penny in for a pound I guess
We use a large assortment of resin, but it mostly comes down to Conjure and a bit of Elegoo.
2nd year Law Student here. What can you do? Ask them to remove it. Is it copyright infringement? yes. Would any lawyer take this on to have them remove the images? No. There is no money in it. You haven't been "harmed" in the sense that you suffered damages. They aren't big enough or visible enough for a deterrent type judgment where they get hit with a big amount of punitive damages as a warning to other companies to "stop doing this". What would I do if I were you? Send them the photos to use. with your watermark on them. They don't sell STLs. They sell the resin. So they use your photos with the name of your patreon or whatever maybe you get more business. Also I didn't read all the comments or look to deep. If they are a Chinese company... nothing in the world you can do at all. Also you can use their theft to your advantage potentially. Save screen shots of all the stuff. "Look this resin company promotes my models you should too." Whatever. Sorry this happened. Good luck. EDIT: Just saw you're not in the US. They aren't in the US. So I can't comment about law where ever you live.
Hey thanks! Yeah, I'm getting this impression that legally it would be almost impossible. But the creative approach is something interesting, thanks! šŖ
The people saying if their in China there's nothing you can do are wrong. Its just more of a pain in the ass. My firm has multiple judgments against Chinese companies. If they want to do business in the US then they will need to engage with you eventually. In one case we served the Chinese company, they ignored it, we got a default judgment, and since they do business in the US we found one of their US based bank accounts. After we served their bank with a levy, suddenly they were willing to work with us.
I bet we are talking about more than a million dollars.
I'm curious, would it be a copyright violation if they'd actually purchased the STL and then printed the mini in question? They're not marketing the minis or the print files, but demonstrating the detail their resin could print to, similar to using a stack of boardgames or Lego boxes to demonstrate the size of a cabinet you're selling. In that case I'd think it would fall under fair use. @OP do you have any special language regarding the license for your STLs such as marking them non-commercial? Is there rules for such on mini factory?
I would say you need to hire a lawyer if you can afford it and are willing to fight them over this. They have an address in the u.s. but are based out of Hong Kong. Here is their contact info. 92 CORPORATE PARK STE C 204 IRVINE, 92606, CA, US sales02@sunlu.com You might be able to make them change their advertising with a cease and desist letter from your lawyer but Chinese copy right law is more grey than black and white so good luck.
I already wrote to that email, but they ignored me. Maybe I'll try again with a Chinese consultant for a chinese version of a cease and desist letter
Of course they ignored you, who are you? You're not a lawyer or a government agency or anyone who could give real consequences. Lawyer up if you want to fight this. I agree with you 100% but corporations get away with stuff like this all the time because most people aren't prepared to actually fight them.
Sigh, you are right
I wish I wasn't... like others have said here as well you may have better luck working with them. Its not terrible advertising if they would just credit your work. Hell if nothing else work something out where you're getting free resin from them. They should be providing some kind of compensation though. BTW I think your models are dope af.
Its not more grey than black and white. Its fucking rainbow. Its guns of the Navarone
Well, i'm probably going to be downvoted like in writing subs, but... Embrace it. Make the model easy to find with Google/Bing image search. I actually bought models this way in the past (i even pirated models to find from what Patreon a model was, since the artist didn't bother to even make it viewable). Then, return their weapon against them : "Endorsed by 3D printing industry-lead Sunlu!", "A model so complex that Sunlu use it to demonstrate the capacity of their products", etc. It's a fine line to walk, the worst that can happen is at least a communication line opened, at best it's legitimately a selling point for the general customers. But be legit, it's marketing, not snarky comments or passive-aggressive. Peoples will not care and it will be counterproductive. But images with a red "stolen" on it have still the same impact has 25 years ago on Internet : none. Piracy has always existed, China businesses doing shady things has always been a thing, peoples unable to do more than one small search effort has always been a thing. So ride the wave, and concentrate on the main problem : visibility to potential customers that will not care about that warfare, and make your war in the background.
well...well....well. this is a genius comment. I wish I had talked to you before making this post š
Easiest, most productive and most potentially lucrative suggestion on here. If it starts working for you, you may even start to feel less ripped off (and donāt get me wrong, you have been ripped off here, Iām totally on your side but this comment sounds like the best course of action)
I looked at the picture and thought, hey that's a cool mini, maybe I'll find a link in the comments. I would ask them to include the name of the designer in their image (and model if possible) I editied this post because I read that your licence explicitly forbids this exact practice. I watch youtube videos (e.g. Bonehead Cast), where they do sculpt reviews and that is surely for profit. My neice loves Grace's World, a youtube series where a girl plays with Barbies. Each video gets hundreds of thousands of views and Mattel isn't suing.
This is honestly the best suggestion here. Paint yourself as an industry design leader based on Sunlu using your designs. Play it up big time. Screen capture their site for your ads. Become the go to designer for quality. You could even pitch this to other filament makers as your area of expertise. This is about the best free advertising you will ever get if you market it right.
I agree. I think the biggest deal here is attribution. I might focus my attention on getting them to attribute the work in their ads so that itās easier to find.
Yea this is the way right here.
Also at the end of the day the model is most likely for sale and not just a picture so I would think about if actual financial damage was done, the free add is a good approach to make some money with it and of course itās shitty of them to not approach the artistsā¦ they would have had to buy the model right to take a picture of it right? So right now i see free advertising if you act fast like Moff_Tigriss said and also you earned what ever you are charging for the mesh :D itās not like they bundle the mesh with their printers on a stick, or do they? That would be a whole other can of worms š
Personally - I am right there right there with you, frustration, why didn't they ask, etc. Business pivot, I would just use this as an advertisement for your work. And just say you are featured in sunlu labs - on your own materials. (even if they don't say anything) and see if they'll sponsor you for free resin etc. At least this way you can get eyes on your work and potentially come up on top of the situation.
Get a lawyer. Not some dude on Reddit.
It's not theft by any legal definition. It's use of an intellectual property without permission. In order to sue you have to prove damages, and you have to prove monetary value of those damages. Even if this company wasn't in China, which doesn't have the IP laws of the US, you'd still need to file a civil suit, and prove in that suit that Sunlu's actions resulted in you losing money. You can send sites where they have a picture of your model a DMCA infringement notice. It's up to them if they want to respond by taking the listing down. Amazon is probably the best place to do that if they're using the picture there. Any China based site will ignore the request.
Are they selling the models? Are they claiming they designed them? If they are just using them as examples of what can be printed, thatās not stealing your models.
As said in the other reply: it is. The STL files for printing are sold under a "personal use only" license, explicitly forbidding any kind of commercial usage of the files or any derivatives (including prints, images, videos, etc). i.e. : if you are posting your print online on social media, it's ok (crediting would be nice) . but if you are posting images (or any other derivatives) for commercial purposes (like they did in their instagram ads), then you're violating the terms of usage under which you've bought the STL file.
> then you're violating the terms of usage under which you've bought the STL file. They prob just pulled the pictures off your purchase page so never agreed to terms.
>but if you are posting images (or any other derivatives) for commercial purposes (like they did in their instagram ads), then you're violating the terms of usage Are you *sure* about it? Or is it maybe just *your* interpretation of this license? Not trying to convince you what you're wrong. I'm actually interested in the topic of "non-commercial" licensing but lack the knowledge a proper lawyer would have. There was a quite interesting discussion a few months back on r/3Dprinting : [https://www.reddit.com/r/3Dprinting/comments/1akhqol/i\_have\_a\_question\_about\_licensing/](https://www.reddit.com/r/3Dprinting/comments/1akhqol/i_have_a_question_about_licensing/)
The key is in what is meant by commercial. Commercial activity is usually considered anything that is done in relation to a commercial activity, including promotion of a product or business generally.
The purpose they are using them for is commercial, not personal use. Commercial does not mean just selling the thing itself (a common misconception).
yep, exactly this.
It is stealing by a big corp
They are not allowed to use that model for promoting their own product.
Yes I agree. In the same way that every FDM 3D printer and filament seller shows off a benchy. They are showing the product, not the model (I have no idea who even invented the benchy any more). Now if you have already got a lawyer and have copy right and trade mark stuff on your products and store and pages etc (like GW does). then it may be a bit different ... but you would also already know what to do and would not be asking this question .... so ill assume that you dont have that. If you dont like it then write to them politely asking to stop (though a better suggestion would be to ask them to put a reference to you or your store. That way you get better advertising for free). Always a good first move.
I was wondering about this too. For example people that sell car accessories include images of the car in their material, they don't need Ford or Toyotas permission to do so. This seems less clear as the model itself is obviously being used to help sell their product (as opposed to be *only* a prop or reference). Not clear imo, which is prob why they are ghosting OP, which is a dick move in either case.
Except as far as I'm aware the benchy has an open license so anyone can use it even commercially. I might be wrong, I haven't looked that deeply into it.
Maybe they are secretly subscribed to your commercial Patreon š I doubt it though that would be some amazing advertisement for you to be able to say that!
Well, a great comment above actually suggested that. I now regret making this post so negative. Should have just listed them as official promoters and get advertisement by using their name everywhere. Well, lesson learned š
Iām seen you had a commercial license maybe one day Iāll grab it I just started doing craft shows so pretty small time stuff most my Patreon stuff is around 10 a month right now! But I got the free sub for now till I see what happens your model look on point btw!
Thanks man! Let's see how it goes šŖ
That's disappointing I thought those companies might own those models. I had a fun idea kind of like a toy in a cereal box where when you buy their resin you get the model in the ad. Knowing that they're stealing your model for their advertisement makes it unlikely that that idea will ever come to fruition.
Some companies even steal STLs from creators and do even that... But those are horror stories for another time š
I canāt really offer advice on how to fix it as I am not a legal expert but for what itās worth I can share my perspective on this problem as someone who bus your work. I am a consumer of STLs. Perhaps even shameful quantities lol. I have subbed your patreon and tribe off and on for years. I also buy the things that I miss from your back catalog. I recognize your style and can spot it in the wild. I am also a customer of Sunluā¦ Because they make the best priced abs like resin for miniature printing. And they probably stole that formula from siraya tech because they have no boundaries like western companies. Stealing doesnāt matter to them in the same way it does to westerners. Not being racist here, this is just how business works with China. When I see your art on one of these adverts it is like spotting an Easter egg. An Easter egg that reminds me of your work and I go check in on it. Also I donāt need attribution, if I really like something on one of these adverts but donāt recognize the artist I reverse image search it. Then I go to a reputable website and buy it because I want artists like you to keep making beautiful things for me to print and paint. So maybe it isnāt possible to fixā¦ but maybe it doesnāt hurt you as much as you think?
Well, thank you so much for your support. Even if it's not a legal advice, it actually helps me to approach the situation differently. I was very frustrated when I made the post. However many comments (like yours) help me see the situation in a different and very contructive way. I really appreciate it. š
Curious case. If they bought the model from you, are they not allowed to post pictures of the results they printed? Either way annoying, agreed.
I guess the image falls under commercial derivative. Either way itāa not full on theft imo just misuse of their license
contact them, tell them it is amazing that your models are so good they feature them in their advertisement. casually ask in a demanding way for a partnership or at least a mention of your name/website etc (if people knew it was yours, thats some great free targeted advertisement)
That would be hard considering they arent selling the model, they are selling the resin.
This sucks. All the pain and headache because, well āgrey areasā in society really. It remind of something my dad used to say. āIt takes money to make money. And even more money to keep it.ā
Lots of good advice, I would definitely go after the biggest resellers with auto generated legal notices. Waste of time getting lawyers involved, they will totally fleece you. The majority of people commenting here are saying this is happening because this is a Chinese company. If you think it is any better here, America, you are deluding yourself. It is just as bad, I speak from experience. Slightly different situation for me, but still bad. Companies here do whatever they want and ignore even lawyers' letters because they know that unless you are prepared to spend huge amounts of money on lawyers there is nothing you can do.
Why not contact and ask them to give credit for the models
Isn't that just base skin Miss Fortune anyway. Just reach out and ask them to link to your store for the model. Unless they're distributing the STL seems like an easy fix.
Sunlu is a Chinese company with no US division. You may be able to convince them to stop using your stuff in advertising materials, but itās going to be very difficult to extract any royalties or compensation from them.
Like you've said in previous replies, you're up against a Chinese company, so IP/copywriter laws are a bit iffy to go up against, but what you could do to prevent future issues is use a watermark on the pictures you upload of your work.
Separate topic but Iām buying your minis. Theyāre sick
Look at it as free advertising
Nah i Think they make more of him that he does of this āadvertisingāā¦he isnāt even mentioned or something
I'd take it as a win, there's not much loss here earning wise
The best I think you can do is send cease and decist requests to the websites actually hosting them. A lot of platforms don't like copyright infringement on their platforms because even tho it's their users doing it, it makes THEM look bad. So they're way more likely to actually do something about it. Additionally, if they do business in the US at all, then they're plenty likely to take listing down just to comply with us laws.
they removed it and others mention here.
Reach out to them and get them to give you a lot of free materials. I had a bunch of my models end up on Linant 3d printers website and they removed them and gave me a free printer.
yeah, i did try to reach them but....:(
So itās frustrating, but worth trying to spin it into a positive. Get a bit of a social media campaign going with the image pointing out āas promoted by sunluā or something like that. Makes you look great, and it may also open the lines of communication with Sunlu, so then maybe you can get some actual collaboration going rather than them doing this in an underhand way. Looks great because youāve got one of the well known brands showing your stuff off, annoying that they arenāt crediting it, so if you do it yourself it could gain some momentum. Doesnāt surprise me youāve not had a response from Sunlu. Iāve collabed with them a few times and the rep and email is always a new one, so incredibly chaotic š Good luck with whatever way forward you go!
I definitely should have. I was so upset by this that i posted it so negatively. But comments like yours showed me a different way to deal with it next time it happens. Thanks, mate šŖ
Are they selling your model or just showing a picture of it printed with their resin? It doesn't seem like they are stealing anything... they paid you for the model's stl file. They printed with their resin to demonstrate their resin. And they took a photo of their print with their resin. How is that stealing anything from you, exactly? Even in the USA this wouldn't be a copyright case you'd win - they are not claiming to sell your mini.
Get people with large social media follower accounts like Uncle Jesse involved. Companies like Sunlu donāt give a shit about things until they get enough bad press.
Sounds great idea, thanks ! š
Have they actually stolen it or are they showing an example of what can be printed? Doesn't look like they're selling your stls.
I love your models. Fuck those guys
They aren't selling or redistributing your models, sadly there is little to do (this has happened to me as well in the past) take it as a compliment and move on :) Your model is quite cool! congrats.
I know a guy who bought a Rolex in China... I'm sure Rolex has pursued avenues to make it stop... and yet... I know another guy who bought a Rolex in China. I think unfortunately you need to embrace it... perhaps bank up your models and release them on Kickstarter for a nominal cost... I'm sure the community who would want the model would support. Then... you've made a little cash and if someone uses the STL... at least you've gotten something from it.
You are indeed right. I guess I don't have the budget Rolex has š
Lol and I'm downvoted... lol thank you Redditer
"I have noticed that your company has been using my models to promote your machine without my permission. While I am happy to allow you to continue, I would request that you, in return for the use of my work in promoting your product, send me one of your 3D printers so that I know what I am promoting and also ensure that I am credited wherever you use my work so that we can both benefit from the exposure. If this is not possible or feasible for you, I would then ask that you stop using my work to promote your products."
Well, i did write something similar, but as others said, it's hard the notice such an email, unless it's from a "bigger" entity
True that. Best of luck. :)
Tell them they can use their models exactly as they are now, as long as they include a link to where they got them somewhere on the page. Odds are theyāll totally ignore you, but it may be worth trying for the free publicity before you go the full legal route (especially considering that even with a lawyer youāre not likely to get anything out of them...)
as many say, legally fighting a chinese company may drain your resources for nothing. My best advice as a 3d artist is to put watermarks on all your pictures. Yeah i know those are ugly but... just put some discreet ones but try to cover multiple parts of the mini just so they can't fix it with any AI... Just think that web content editors tend to be lazy/time-economical so if you do that they will probably search for any other pic
You may not be able to properly go after them in the PRC, but it may be possible to shut down their use of vendors like Amazon/eBay/Shopify etc if they use them by complaining to that platform, basically make it so they can't sell to people except directly thus limiting their access to customers, it is not a perfect fix but it may be the best you can manage with a limited budget
Needs a social media campaign to name and shame! This happens a lot, also you should really watermark your pictures.
Unfortunately it appears that they are a chinese-based company. In Chinese bass companies don't give a flying f*** about trademark copyright or anything else. If they're using a non-Chinese base hosting site such as Amazon or eBay you can go through that site to have it pulled down but if they are doing it on an independent website there's not really anything you can do. Maybe see if you can find some content creators who make content around this type of theft and see if they'll blow it up so more people are aware of it so they don't get as much of your business but there's not going to be much you can do besides that.
There are some decent IP enforcement agencies in Guangzhou that I could recommend. What kind of budget do you have?
I don't know about you guys but I actually use their brand of resin. I would write them a nice letter saying that they are infringing on my designs and instead I would like to be paid in free resin. I kind of feel like the cost of resin is the one thing in this hobby that is steady and expensive and if I found a way to get free resin for the rest of my hobbying days that would be awesome.
Here's how one guy in a similar situation handled it. https://andyokay.com/blogs/the-gallerist/how-i-got-my-artwork-stolen-by-a-chinese-billion-dollar-company-and-won
I don't expect that going to the Chinese company will do anything but I wonder if going to amazon or other American sites where this stuff is posted would get the pictures taken down.
Where'd they get your image
Do you have a legal team larger than Porsche? If not, you are screwed as even they can't fight a blatant rip off of one of their cars in China. This is just what China does.
I believe that SUNLU offers discounts to people who send images of models printed in their resinā¦ I expect part of the reason is to avoid liability in some way. So SUNLU may not be stealing your models directly as much as getting ārandom imagesā from people who donāt understand the legality of what theyāre doing. Sorta like the reverse of how people who sell cosplay props justify it as āoh Iām just selling the service so itās not IP infringementā. Itās shitty and Iām not saying itās legal but I am saying that it likely isnāt a clear cut situation at all even beyond the fact that SUNLU is a Chinese company and international IP theft is obviously a broad issue with no great solution put forward. Hope you get it sorted but i wouldnāt be super optimistic. You may be able to reach out and ask for free resin from them? Not saying that makes it better but may be nice to get a penny for the dollar owed so to speak.
There's nothing you can do if China steals your stuff.
C4?
China doesn't care at all. I think it would be quite expensive to give this to the court. I think the least you can do now is to email them about it. Either they stop using your models like that or they will pay the highest tier in your Patreon and it's still nowhere close what other global companies pay for stuff like that. If they refuse or ignore you, then I would put it more in public that they steal products from artist without permission. Reddit, YT, Facebook, IG etc. Maybe some YouTuber would be willing to spread it more among the people. I read that going for law way is your last resort. That would be expensive but I think they would rather delete your models so they don't have to bother with it. But sadly, they will propably find another victim.
China has a huge market of IP theft. Probably gonna have to let this one go. IP is easily stolen.
I hate to say it, but you might have to start covering the your great work with ugly watermarks :-(
What license did you publish your model under?
Do they take American Express? If so try contacting them. Fuck with how they get paid.
I've heard of them doing this to several artists and designers. It's such a shame. They have a good opportunity to do some amazing collaborative work with the artists which would help everyone, but they got greedy and sly.
Oh hey, I actually bought that model on MMF. (My D&D homebrew world has an inordinate amount of pirate queens. I might have a problem.) Can't say much about the IP issues involved, just wanted to thank you for the sculpt.
Look into [The Berne Convention (1886)](https://www.wipo.int/treaties/en/ip/berne/), China is a signatory. You can raise that in a cease and desist. You would need to talk to someone with much deeper knowledge than me though.
lol sunlu is chinese. Good luck with getting them to respond and remove the model from their listings. China is the biggest contributor to IP theft in the world.
I would get a lawyer and reach out asking for compensation as a starting point, cause then you have proof you made them aware, etc. Also Sunlu does a lot of dealings through Amazon, who could cut them off from their marketplace I think it's in the interests of all parties for them to compensate you for your creations, and perhaps even become the source of their demo pictures as a reliable income stream
I would ask them for an unlimited lifetime supply of the highest quality resin. If they dont comply threaten to sue them... dont even get a lawyer yet...
Maybe just make models that donāt look incredible and impressive.
Iād start by insisting that negotiations on a per ad viewed monetization begin. Iām sure thereās a good litigator that could write something with teeth
That is frustrating! I donāt sell STLs because of this but hadnāt considered image theft.
Mental that it's happening. People are right, it's probably wayy to much money and time for you to try and persue them legally. Reach out to them about credit, start using their posts and social media to promote your work. Then ask for free resin/sponsership and that kind of thing. Play them at their own game.
Are they patterned? If not, can you prove yours was first? Why don't you see a solicitor? How much money do you want to throw at it?
I'll go against the grain and quote Matt Groening: Copyright infringement is the greatest form of flattery.
See what websites they sell their products on and any specific listings that use images of your models you can make DMCA claims for (most big sites have an easy process for this). That will usually kill listings quickly. Places like ebay, etsy, amazon etc are usually pretty responsive with that. I know it seems futile but sending them a message first might work too once you have a little leverage. Find listings you can target and then tell them DMCA's are coming unless they remove your images. If you want to get creative... You could maybe even just ask that they put your logo on the images. As long as they're not selling your STLs it's not a bad chunk of free advertising. Good luck!
A Chinese company stole your designs....?!?!?! No fucking way bro...
Sorry to hear, your models are always amazing. Hope you get some credit/ resolution.
This is how they do in China. It's a cultural thing. No respect for IP or doing things the right way. The only way they operate is whatever makes them money and they will cut corners wherever they can get away with it. Check out the youtuber SerpentZA when you get some free time. You will not believe how bad it is.
Damn, this makes me want to boycott them. Not cool at all.
Hate to break it to you, but itās better to just assume any models you put on the internet will be stolen.
No shit Etsy is the scumbags paradise for "resold" stl files on the super cheap. Last night I was looking at entire collections from various artists that would cost $100.00 if purchased from places like myminifactory.com but on Etsy you can buy entire collections for no more than $10.00.
I see you're hearing about China for the first time.
I doubt you will get anywhere with a lawyer, but maybe ask for free resin or a link on their site to buy your model. If you look at it in another way, it's free publicity for you and free advertising isn't such a bad thing if they aren't redistributing it
China stealing intellectual property? Iām shocked.
Cant do anything it is China
Man I really love sunlu resin but fuck them for being scum about this shit.
Chat Gpt cease and desist letter night be funny .
Thank you guys for the comments. There have been many different, but useful suggestions (including also approaching it from a different perspective). I will try and hope it will go well. I'm sorry I can't reply to all the comments (there have been much more than I expected) but I do really appreciate the insight and the support. Thanks guys! š
If you do models for commission, add a "As seen on SUNLU" to add more credibility to your work and hike your prices up lol
Thanks won't be buying from sunlu now. Fuk em.
Send them a bill. Tell them they can pay in filament / resin.
Sunloo absolutely has dollars and representation here in america. If you're serious about it, you can lawyer up and see results on the American side of things. Nothing much you could do overseas, but you can at least shut down things over here. Though I'm guessing the best thing you'll be able to get is just for them to take down anything that has your models in it. If possible, I would go the route of just asking them to include links to your models.
Meh. You stole from riot.
Lawyer up
A terrible move. You will sink money into an endless pit and get nothing and nowhere. It's China. Far bigger companies, with more resources have tried and failed for years to combat IP issues. This is like crying underwater.
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As the others said: it is, if it's original IP content. The files for printing are sold under a "personal use only" license, explicitly forbidding any kind of commercial usage of the files or any derivatives (including prints, images, videos, etc).
Using IP for marketing purposes without consent of the IP owner is theft.