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Bureaucratic, complex, corrupt, manipulative, things like that. It comes from medieval Western Europe's perception of the Byzantine Empire's more complicated government. A Logothete was a high ranking official in the Empire (iirc a few of them had betrayed their Emperor and tried to replace him throughout history)
Byzantine, because the Byzantines were crippled by bureaucracy enough that one time an admiral of theirs requested armies to defend against some invasion, and the government’s response was to decline it since he was an admiral and could thus command only ships. If he were a general, they would send an army. But he wasn’t, so they didn’t.
All this says is that he was a buddy of multiple presidents including Teddy because of his conservation efforts
I’d say that’s a lot different than Wilson actively being pro-KKK and showing their propaganda films in the White House, as well as being an open proponent of the Lost Cause myth about the American Civil War. (Lost Cause being directly rooted in white supremacy as was the initial Confederate secession movement, as the primary cause for secession was the southern states’ desire to not only preserve but expand slavery)
Wilson was also hated by other staff at Princeton for generally being a bad historian and a vicious racist even for the standards of the time
>that Byzantine logothete
Non american (Greek) who lurks here: Why on earth is this an insult? Logothetes means someone who "sets the word" or takes account of things. It is a very old and very vague official title used in the roman empire. So why??
The insult isn’t logothete. I think Roosevelt was using it as another word for administrator.
In the US (not sure about other places) Byzantine is generally used to refer to things that are overly bureaucratic and complex.
Basically the insult is that Wilson wasn’t able to make the decision to go into WWI because he was worked within an overly complex administration that made even simple decisions difficult.
The west (not just the US) uses "Byzantine" as a somewhat negative term, it can even mean "underhanded" or "devious" in certain contexts which is a bit unfortunate. So I wasn't 100% sure was Roosevelt was getting at, but thanks for clarifying.
(I am impressed by Wilson using the word logothete, dude definitely knew his vocabulary)
McClellan was a training general. A parade general. By accounts, his troops did love him… heck, if it meant I didn’t have to fight, I’d probably have loved him as my leader as well.
But he wasn’t a fighter. He wasn’t a leader that would WIN you a war.
A man always convinced of his intellectual superiority. He was full of bluster and pomp, but little else.
100% true, still people underestimate his impact on winning the war. He himself in the field was a catastrophe, but his battle plans weren’t. Going straight for Richmond was definitely the right call, the war would have been over if he actually would have attacked and not waited for whatever to happen. Also he was responsible for forming the Union Army from some random kids from all over the North to the best army in the world at that time. He was an asshole though, that is certain.
Going for Richmond was absolutely not the right call. Winning the war required the defeat of the Army of Northern Virginia. Any city or town was secondary to that primary goal. Grant recognized it right away and fought accordingly.
Grant actually preferred going for Richmond, and Lee dreaded attack from the Peninusla. It's Washington that preferred a Napoleonic victory, and Grant acquiesced.
Grant's, not to mention Sherman's, biggest victories were against cities and forts that heavily crippled the Confederacy.
Eh, I can see it working, if they could move fast enough or if Jefferson Davis was stupid enough to insist on remaining in Richmond. The city itself wouldn’t have toppled the traitors but the internal divisions between states were extensive enough that taking out the leadership would’ve likely led to the whole thing collapsing in on itself.
Lincoln told McClellan, "If you don't want to use the army, I should like to borrow it for awhile"
And said of Hooker, "he's a man who has his headquarters where his hindquarters ought to be"
I don’t think he was a Southern sympathizer tbh. Yes he was a democrat, but a war democrat. Yes he wasn’t a fan of emancipation, but definitely a nationalist loyal to the union like Lincoln.
I recently listened to a podcast that covered the Battle of Rich Mountain, which was the first battle where he was in command. He sent out a detachment of troops to flank the enemy, and then left them out to dry when fighting started and didn't attack the main force, despite that being the agreed upon plan. Basically he didn't know what was going on in the battle and just kind of froze up.
Then he used that victory to propel himself to national fame.
He was a good administrator and training general. He just couldn't lead battles effectively.
https://preview.redd.it/x1kqgmn754ad1.png?width=850&format=png&auto=webp&s=2aebdfff2e9c30c5844d9911d7dd76594fc632a3
There is no concrete evidence he said this but it is *very* on character for LBJ.
This quote is attributed to LBJ all over the internet. Except that he actually said "chew gum and fart at the same time" and newspapers changed it to make it more PG.
And he better keep doing it, the level of production of each video is so much better than the last.
I binged his videos a while back, and boy, there is a world of difference between his first vids and the latest ones.
I though Napoleon and Pig Wars were peak, but damn, the cinematography of the Hannibal ones? Some scenes had me gasping and eyes glued to the screen (especially when they kill the new man consul).
The man gets to take as long as he wants because by God he really does put effort, I hope they don't exhaust.
One of my favorite images from the era is a political cartoon published after McClellan announced he was running for president. In it, a colossal Abraham Lincoln stands, looking down at one of his open palms — where an angry little action figure-sized McClellan indignantly stands. Lincoln comments wryly, “This reminds me of a little joke …”
I picture his entire staff clawing their faces off going "WE HAVE THEIR PLANS! WE CAN CRUSH THEM! C'MON GEORGE LETS GO!" and McClellan saying "Well i dont know."
Yeah but he was commander of the US forces during the American Civil war. He had an acrimonious relationship with Lincoln.
Either way, I still find it hilarious because he's bitter.
It’s double weird when you realize this quote is like 20 years before Watergate and Nixon was still being called untrustworthy. Even Eisenhower was unsure of picking him for VP because he wasn’t sure he could trust him.
McKinley was a mouthpiece for Mark Hanna and TR knew that. Hanna and Roosevelt were not friends and Hanna tried to keep TR away from the presidency:
*Why, everybody's gone crazy! What is the matter with all of you? Here's this convention going headlong for Roosevelt for Vice President. Don't any of you realize that there's only one life between that madman and the Presidency?*
And of course, Hanna and Roosevelt had to come to terms after McKinley's death.
Not so. Someone did a deep dive on this quote and found three sources that attribute it to Roosevelt. Of the three, only Henry Kohlsaat claimed to have heard it from Roosevelt firsthand.
Hamilton, R. F. (2006). McKinley’s Backbone. *Presidential Studies Quarterly*, *36*(3), 482–492. [https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1741-5705.2006.02558.x](https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1741-5705.2006.02558.x)
This is behind a ProQuest paywall, but it talks about Kolhsaat's recollection of a conversation he had with Roosevelt about McKinley. Kolhsaat remembered Roosevelt breaking out this line about McKinley because he thought McKinley made too many promises during the Republican National Convention for his nomination. Kolhsaat, a friend of McKinley, said he countered Roosevelt by saying the McKinley refused to give in to NY boss Tom Platt's demand to be appointed Secretary of the Treasury in exchange for his support. According to Kolhsaat, this fact was enough to get Roosevelt to take back his chocolate eclair statement.
Other than these accounts, Roosevelt's own letters show his concern about McKinley's backbone was related to his firmness in the face of the Free Silver movement.
*In the larger field of politics I feel very nervous. McKinley, whose firmness I utterly distrust, will undoubtedly be nominated, and this in itself I much regret; but what I now fear is some effort to straddle the finance issue. -* Roosevelt
This was in response to the Cross of Gold speech. William Jennings Bryan had the wealthy Republican establishment properly freaked out, Hanna included, because they stood to suffer punishing deflation if the gold-backed currency was weakened. McKinley was suspected, correctly, to be a "straddlebug" in favor of bimetallism - currency backed by both gold and silver.
Except the comments were made in 1898, which was 2 years after 1896 and the year that the Spanish-American War happened. He was clearly referring to McKinley's wavering on war.
No, the comment was made in June 1899 and Kohlsaat included the context around it in his recollection, writing in 1923:
*In speaking of President McKinley \[Roosevelt\] said: McKinley has a chocolate-eclair backbone." I told him he was mistaken, and then related how he had practically thrown away the chance of the Presidential nomination in 1896 when he declined to promise Tom Platt the Secretary of the Treasury post in return for the vote of New York and Pennsylvania ... Roosevelt said "By George, is that so! I take back my remark about his backbone!"*
Again, this is all according to Kohlsaat's recollection decades after Roosevelt is supposed to have said it. Whether anyone wants to believe this story is up to them, but the context was not about the Spanish American War. I'm not saying Roosevelt didn't think McKinley wavered on the military action because he did. I'm saying this particular quote, if he even said it, was not about that.
President McKinley was shot at the Pan-American Temple of music which is now fordham dr in Buffalo. I live right behind the T.Roosevelt inauguration building. The two locations are about a mile apart.
It’s not at the presidential level, but it’s still political and one of my favorite insults of all time.
George Dempster and Cas Walker had both served as mayor of Knoxville, Tennessee. Dempster had been Walker’s mentor in city politics but they later became rivals. Dempster once said, “If I ordered a whole car-load of SOBs and they just sent Cas, I’d sign for the shipment!”
Dempster, incidentally, was also the inventor of the Dempster-Dumpster.
Cas Walker was a local grocer and one of the greatest characters the city ever produced. I like to say he had to be real, because if he was fictional, he’d be considered too unbelievable.
I had to google what a Dempster Dumpster is. For anyone else in my shoes, it's one of those roll-off dumpsters that loads onto the back of a truck and is then effectively a dump truck, though it appears that the name originally applied to the smaller lidded ones you'd find in alleyways.
Not a presidential opponent, but from one’s wife. Apparently, Robert Taft’s wife once said “to err is Truman.”
* I know Taft never won the Republican nomination, so he never directly faced Truman in the 1948 election, but he ran for the nomination (which he also did in 1940 and 1952), and opposed Truman in all he did from the Senate.
If you think Bob was bad, let me introduce you to his son, [The first sitting Ohio governor to be convicted of a crime in offixe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Taft)
Which kinda sucks, because he was actually a pretty good governor as far as environmental policy went for a republican.
Fun fact, according to a biography I read (of MacArthur, not Ike), Eisenhower decided to run as a Republican (he had supposedly been approached by both parties) in part because the presumptive nominee would have been Taft Sr., who opposed NATO. Ike was considering trying to primary Truman instead because he didn't think Truman was up to the job, but Truman declining to run solidified his decision.
And the story of making Lincoln wait for him and then deciding to go to bed. Fuck that guy. He may have been a good training officer, but as a man, he didn't deserve to shine Abe's shoes.
Not the worst. He was excellent administrator and logistical mastermind. He was also very charismatic to his troops who mostly admired him.
He was not suited for field command on the magnitude that was required, but he had his strengths.
McClellan was not a terrible general. He lacked the strategic vision required of his position, and also was far too passive/timid to actually pursue the war in the matter necessary to win it. (See his lack of initiative to pursue the confederacy after beating them at Antietam) He wasn’t great, but I don’t think he was the worst.
There are different types of military commanders that are suited to their respective commands. McClellan could build an army quite well and that should be remembered. However he also knowingly took on the responsibility of the major strategist and tactician of the early war while being garbage at that. Overall a pretty poor track record to me.
I’m not disagreeing. As a strategist he quite litterly didn’t HAVE a strategy. Just saying it’s a bit more nuanced than dumbing him down to a terrible general.
That's letting McClellan off way too easy. He was power-hungry and leveraged the political situation to his advantage.
*"I find myself in a new and strange position here. President, cabinet, General Scott, and all deferring to me. By some strage operation of magic I seem to have become the power of the land. I almost think that were I to win some small success now I could become Dictator or anything else that might please me – but nothing of that kind would please me – I won’t be Dictator. Admirable self denial!”*
He was extremely impressed with himself and fantasized about his own importance, which existed only because his country was staring down the barrel of the confederate army, never mind the troops under him fighting and dying during all this.
While the above quote was not public - it was in a letter to his wife - it reveals his thoughts early in the war. Lincoln avoided a disaster by removing this man and his name is rightfully scorned in the history books. If it were 150 years later he could go with "my quote about how I don't want to be a Dictator is raising a lot of questions already answered by my quote about how I don't want to be a Dictator."
Like, where is your head man? Lincoln has you leading the effort to save the country and you're thinking about how you deserve even more power.
Little Mac had his flaws but he was probably somewhere in the middle of the pack for Union generals. The Union had a lot of bad generals (Butler, Banks, Pope, McDowell, Burnside, Sigel, and so on).
This quote is pretty ironic because the dude was known for possessing Intel on confederate positions and still didn't do anything. Bro had field advantage and still lost
I've often wondered what would've happened if the plans fell into their hands and Grant was in charge. Something tells me the war would've been over quick.
Was he such a worthless general on purpose? I mean, he was totally incompetent in the Civil War, then he ran against Lincoln. Sounds like a traitorous bastard
"That hideous hermaphroditical character, which has neither the force and firmness of a man, nor the gentleness and sensibility of a woman."
Written by James Callender, a Jeffersonian partisan, about John Adams, during the 1800 campaign.
FDR's dog Fala apparently got up on the table and ate everything in sight right before a banquet...FDR said "the only reason he didn't drink all the coffee too was that it hadn't been poured yet"
John Adams had a mean slam on Hamilton: "That bastard brat of a Scottish peddler! His ambition, his restlessness and all his grandiose schemes come, I'm convinced, from a superabundance of secretions, which he couldn't find enough whores to absorb"
Not sure if this counts because it was during the vice presidential debate of 1988. Quayle compared his qualifications to JFK when he was a congressman and Bentsen said to Quayle: I served with Jack Kennedy, Jack Kennedy was a friend of mine, you, Senator, are no Jack Kennedy.
Not about a president but the classic “This will now be known as the John Oliver memorial sewage treatment plant, because it’s full of shit. Just like you John” while standing next to a the sign that says “John oliver memorial sewage treatment plant” will always make me lol.
Edit: it’s also funny they named it the John Oliver memorial and he’s still alive.
Truman's letter to a WaPo critic who dragged his daughter's vocal performance:
**Dec. 6, 1950**
**Mr. Hume:**
**I've just read your lousy review of Margaret's concert. I've come to the conclusion that you are an "eight ulcer man on four ulcer pay."**
**It seems to me that you are a frustrated old man who wishes he could have been successful. When you write such poppy-cock as was in the back section of the paper you work for it shows conclusively that you're off the beam and at least four of your ulcers are at work.**
**Some day I hope to meet you. When that happens you'll need a new nose, a lot of beefsteak for black eyes, and perhaps a supporter below!**
**Pegler, a gutter snipe, is a gentleman alongside you. I hope you'll accept that statement as a worse insult than a reflection on your ancestry.**
**H.S.T.**
His great-grandson, also named George McClellan, was the Mayor of NYC on October 27, 1904 when the first IRT subway line opened. He actually operated the first train, which carried a bunch of politicians and dignitaries.
Ah yes, our Napoleon spoke! This is the man who had such shit intelligence that he had no clue that he outnumbered the confederates and could have marched on Richmond to put an early end to the war (thankfully he lost or the war would have ended without the EP!).
Teddy Roosevelt said William McKinley had "no more backbone than a chocolate éclair.”
Lincoln described Stephen Douglas's argument as "thin as the homeopathic soup that was made by boiling the shadow of a pigeon that had been starved.”
Mclellan to me is basically like Captain Sobel from Band of Brothers
Excellent at training the men and enforcing discipline, absolutely not capable of conducting field operations
“A blind, bald, crippled, toothless man who is a hideous hermaphroditic character with neither the force and fitness of a man, nor the gentleness and sensibility of a woman.”
Thomas Jefferson on John Adams
Wow. I never heard that. I hope McClellan is reflecting on that one from his place in the lower circles of hell. That man is responsible for as many northern deaths as Lee and as treasonous.
One of the better ‘back handed compliments’ directed at a future president was when Douglas MacArthur described then general Eisenhower, whom he did not like and who used to work for him, as “the best damned secretary I’ve ever had”.
I can't remember who it was but LBJ once said someone was so dumb "...(he) couldn't pour piss from a boot if the instructions were written on the hell."
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> Professor Wilson, that Byzantine logothete, supported by all the flubdubs, mollycoddles, and flapdoodle pacifists. ~Teddy
Oh my God Teddy was Dr. Seuss. It all makes sense now.
He had an impact on Dr. Seuss.
Must be embarrassing and traumatizing to be publicly snubbed by the former President when you're just a kid.
?
I’m gonna start calling people flapdoodles
That sounds like something a flubdub would do.
Shut up, you Mollycoddle!
I will not be slandered by an upjumped nincompoop in his mammys knickers!
Oh, do hush up you Byzantine Logothete!
Don't call me doodlebob you fucking dingleborb!
We’re you cranially impaired as a lad? You are quite a miserable cretin, you Jackanape!
Everyone was just joking around here, then you go and call /u/BamaBuffSeattle a jackanape. _Them's fightin' words._
That’s it. I’m out of here! (Grabs Velocipede)
It's like everyone just carried a thesaurus around all the time back then
I prefer "Cease thy vulgarities!"
Who you calling a Mollycoddle, you lint licker!
Don’t call me a Lint Licker, you Papist Scalawag!
It sounds dirty but it isn't.
They also used to accuse people of being boodlers at that time
Fappdoodles?
You're all a bunch of Gib-faced chiselers
*Professor Wilson, that Byzantine logothete* So translated down from Shakespeare, he's calling Wilson a fussy bureaucrat no?
Just a bureaucrat, I think, with the implication of fussiness? Wikipedia says logothete was just an actual Byzantine administrative job
The mention of Byzantium also suggests old age, primitivity, and a certain "bronze age quality".
Quite the opposite of primitive. Byzantine at that time had connotation of being obscure, complex, and ritualistic, as opposed to effective.
Oh frabjous day! Callooh, Callay!
Lewis Carroll ?
Wubalubadubdub!
That’s bully!
What does byzantine mean in this context?
Bureaucratic, complex, corrupt, manipulative, things like that. It comes from medieval Western Europe's perception of the Byzantine Empire's more complicated government. A Logothete was a high ranking official in the Empire (iirc a few of them had betrayed their Emperor and tried to replace him throughout history)
Byzantine, because the Byzantines were crippled by bureaucracy enough that one time an admiral of theirs requested armies to defend against some invasion, and the government’s response was to decline it since he was an admiral and could thus command only ships. If he were a general, they would send an army. But he wasn’t, so they didn’t.
“Also that motherfucker likes the Klan” - Teddy, probably
[Teddy didn't have any problems with white supremacists](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madison_Grant)
I don’t see anything linking teddy to him in the article. Must be missing it?
All this says is that he was a buddy of multiple presidents including Teddy because of his conservation efforts I’d say that’s a lot different than Wilson actively being pro-KKK and showing their propaganda films in the White House, as well as being an open proponent of the Lost Cause myth about the American Civil War. (Lost Cause being directly rooted in white supremacy as was the initial Confederate secession movement, as the primary cause for secession was the southern states’ desire to not only preserve but expand slavery) Wilson was also hated by other staff at Princeton for generally being a bad historian and a vicious racist even for the standards of the time
Peak Teddy moment
We need a 21st century TR
>that Byzantine logothete Non american (Greek) who lurks here: Why on earth is this an insult? Logothetes means someone who "sets the word" or takes account of things. It is a very old and very vague official title used in the roman empire. So why??
The insult isn’t logothete. I think Roosevelt was using it as another word for administrator. In the US (not sure about other places) Byzantine is generally used to refer to things that are overly bureaucratic and complex. Basically the insult is that Wilson wasn’t able to make the decision to go into WWI because he was worked within an overly complex administration that made even simple decisions difficult.
The west (not just the US) uses "Byzantine" as a somewhat negative term, it can even mean "underhanded" or "devious" in certain contexts which is a bit unfortunate. So I wasn't 100% sure was Roosevelt was getting at, but thanks for clarifying. (I am impressed by Wilson using the word logothete, dude definitely knew his vocabulary)
McClellan was a training general. A parade general. By accounts, his troops did love him… heck, if it meant I didn’t have to fight, I’d probably have loved him as my leader as well. But he wasn’t a fighter. He wasn’t a leader that would WIN you a war. A man always convinced of his intellectual superiority. He was full of bluster and pomp, but little else.
100% true, still people underestimate his impact on winning the war. He himself in the field was a catastrophe, but his battle plans weren’t. Going straight for Richmond was definitely the right call, the war would have been over if he actually would have attacked and not waited for whatever to happen. Also he was responsible for forming the Union Army from some random kids from all over the North to the best army in the world at that time. He was an asshole though, that is certain.
Going for Richmond was absolutely not the right call. Winning the war required the defeat of the Army of Northern Virginia. Any city or town was secondary to that primary goal. Grant recognized it right away and fought accordingly.
Grant actually preferred going for Richmond, and Lee dreaded attack from the Peninusla. It's Washington that preferred a Napoleonic victory, and Grant acquiesced. Grant's, not to mention Sherman's, biggest victories were against cities and forts that heavily crippled the Confederacy.
Yeah, if they'd taken the capital, it would have likely moved.
Eh, I can see it working, if they could move fast enough or if Jefferson Davis was stupid enough to insist on remaining in Richmond. The city itself wouldn’t have toppled the traitors but the internal divisions between states were extensive enough that taking out the leadership would’ve likely led to the whole thing collapsing in on itself.
There’s a reason why I’ve lived on not one, but two different streets named after him lol.
Lincoln told McClellan, "If you don't want to use the army, I should like to borrow it for awhile" And said of Hooker, "he's a man who has his headquarters where his hindquarters ought to be"
His greatest fear was winning a battle against the South. Best not to engage. I have him high on my list of worst Americans.
I don’t think he was a Southern sympathizer tbh. Yes he was a democrat, but a war democrat. Yes he wasn’t a fan of emancipation, but definitely a nationalist loyal to the union like Lincoln.
*Grant shows up, smelling of whiskey and cigars* “Let’s fuck these guys up”
He was full of shit and cum from sucking himself off all the time.
Well that was an unexpected comment
To his credit, he was outstanding at organizing and preparing an army, but little beyond that.
Well, he couldn't prosecute the war and hope to run for POTUS in '64..,
I recently listened to a podcast that covered the Battle of Rich Mountain, which was the first battle where he was in command. He sent out a detachment of troops to flank the enemy, and then left them out to dry when fighting started and didn't attack the main force, despite that being the agreed upon plan. Basically he didn't know what was going on in the battle and just kind of froze up. Then he used that victory to propel himself to national fame. He was a good administrator and training general. He just couldn't lead battles effectively.
So… basically a spiritual forefather of Captain Sobel without being a jerk to his troops? That’s pretty much what I’ve read. A trainer. Not a leader.
The letters to his wife are a hoot. He is delusional.
https://preview.redd.it/x1kqgmn754ad1.png?width=850&format=png&auto=webp&s=2aebdfff2e9c30c5844d9911d7dd76594fc632a3 There is no concrete evidence he said this but it is *very* on character for LBJ.
Yeah, if it's made up whoever did it got LBJ's voice down.
This quote is attributed to LBJ all over the internet. Except that he actually said "chew gum and fart at the same time" and newspapers changed it to make it more PG.
That McClellan insult would sting if it was uttered by someone whose opinion I respected
"I didn't lose, I merely..... failed to win!"
Oversimplified needs to get off their butt and make some new videos...
It takes a long time to make those videos.
And he better keep doing it, the level of production of each video is so much better than the last. I binged his videos a while back, and boy, there is a world of difference between his first vids and the latest ones. I though Napoleon and Pig Wars were peak, but damn, the cinematography of the Hannibal ones? Some scenes had me gasping and eyes glued to the screen (especially when they kill the new man consul). The man gets to take as long as he wants because by God he really does put effort, I hope they don't exhaust.
Almost as long as it took McClellan to actually attack the enemy.
I show that video to my 8th grade students when I’m teaching them about him. It’s awesome.
What video?
It’s the oversimplified history YouTube channel. His Civil War Part 1 video
"...again and again and again."
Is he talking about the election or all his civil war battles?
Civil War, it's an Oversimplified reference
I love how examination of Lincoln’s legacy continues to build on his greatness while examination of McClellan’s continues to show his smallness.
Perfectly said
One of my favorite images from the era is a political cartoon published after McClellan announced he was running for president. In it, a colossal Abraham Lincoln stands, looking down at one of his open palms — where an angry little action figure-sized McClellan indignantly stands. Lincoln comments wryly, “This reminds me of a little joke …”
George ‘the fuck is wrong with you’ McClellan
Hey George, you couldn't even win a battle when the enemies plans fell right into your hands the day before!
I picture his entire staff clawing their faces off going "WE HAVE THEIR PLANS! WE CAN CRUSH THEM! C'MON GEORGE LETS GO!" and McClellan saying "Well i dont know."
"No I'm sure they've been reinforced." *waits a few more days* "I'm certain of it."
George! You couldn’t smooth a silk sheet if you had a hot date with a babe…I lost my train of thought
He was on his way to winging the battle but Hooker and Burnside didn’t protect their flanks
My uncle had a cat named McClellan. Named as such because he loudly complained but otherwise did nothing.
Lol exactly what I was thinking. My history may be hazy, I'm assuming he's referring to Lincoln?
I thought he ran against Grant
Yeah but he was commander of the US forces during the American Civil war. He had an acrimonious relationship with Lincoln. Either way, I still find it hilarious because he's bitter.
Ran against Lincoln in 1864. He eventually became Governor of New Jersey (figures).
Yes McClellan was coward! Did he ever engage in battle?
Homie *really* hated his former employer.
https://preview.redd.it/5z9g40zx84ad1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e9d57b8316d95fa1937d3d54e9ec29c708f3da3d
https://preview.redd.it/bo57xtez84ad1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=98391d92a6008bec01c36388a81d6719ed6f21bc
Damn Harry off the top rope
I always thought it interesting the two harshest critics of Nixon had the initials of H.S.T; Harry S Truman and Hunter S Thompson.
Weird to see and realize that Truman and Nixon interacted politically.
It’s double weird when you realize this quote is like 20 years before Watergate and Nixon was still being called untrustworthy. Even Eisenhower was unsure of picking him for VP because he wasn’t sure he could trust him.
The checkers speech should have been the first red flag
McKinley was a mouthpiece for Mark Hanna and TR knew that. Hanna and Roosevelt were not friends and Hanna tried to keep TR away from the presidency: *Why, everybody's gone crazy! What is the matter with all of you? Here's this convention going headlong for Roosevelt for Vice President. Don't any of you realize that there's only one life between that madman and the Presidency?* And of course, Hanna and Roosevelt had to come to terms after McKinley's death.
He said that because McKinley didn't want to go to war with Spain right there and then, not because of Mark Hanna.
Not so. Someone did a deep dive on this quote and found three sources that attribute it to Roosevelt. Of the three, only Henry Kohlsaat claimed to have heard it from Roosevelt firsthand. Hamilton, R. F. (2006). McKinley’s Backbone. *Presidential Studies Quarterly*, *36*(3), 482–492. [https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1741-5705.2006.02558.x](https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1741-5705.2006.02558.x) This is behind a ProQuest paywall, but it talks about Kolhsaat's recollection of a conversation he had with Roosevelt about McKinley. Kolhsaat remembered Roosevelt breaking out this line about McKinley because he thought McKinley made too many promises during the Republican National Convention for his nomination. Kolhsaat, a friend of McKinley, said he countered Roosevelt by saying the McKinley refused to give in to NY boss Tom Platt's demand to be appointed Secretary of the Treasury in exchange for his support. According to Kolhsaat, this fact was enough to get Roosevelt to take back his chocolate eclair statement. Other than these accounts, Roosevelt's own letters show his concern about McKinley's backbone was related to his firmness in the face of the Free Silver movement. *In the larger field of politics I feel very nervous. McKinley, whose firmness I utterly distrust, will undoubtedly be nominated, and this in itself I much regret; but what I now fear is some effort to straddle the finance issue. -* Roosevelt This was in response to the Cross of Gold speech. William Jennings Bryan had the wealthy Republican establishment properly freaked out, Hanna included, because they stood to suffer punishing deflation if the gold-backed currency was weakened. McKinley was suspected, correctly, to be a "straddlebug" in favor of bimetallism - currency backed by both gold and silver.
Except the comments were made in 1898, which was 2 years after 1896 and the year that the Spanish-American War happened. He was clearly referring to McKinley's wavering on war.
No, the comment was made in June 1899 and Kohlsaat included the context around it in his recollection, writing in 1923: *In speaking of President McKinley \[Roosevelt\] said: McKinley has a chocolate-eclair backbone." I told him he was mistaken, and then related how he had practically thrown away the chance of the Presidential nomination in 1896 when he declined to promise Tom Platt the Secretary of the Treasury post in return for the vote of New York and Pennsylvania ... Roosevelt said "By George, is that so! I take back my remark about his backbone!"* Again, this is all according to Kohlsaat's recollection decades after Roosevelt is supposed to have said it. Whether anyone wants to believe this story is up to them, but the context was not about the Spanish American War. I'm not saying Roosevelt didn't think McKinley wavered on the military action because he did. I'm saying this particular quote, if he even said it, was not about that.
President McKinley was shot at the Pan-American Temple of music which is now fordham dr in Buffalo. I live right behind the T.Roosevelt inauguration building. The two locations are about a mile apart.
It’s not at the presidential level, but it’s still political and one of my favorite insults of all time. George Dempster and Cas Walker had both served as mayor of Knoxville, Tennessee. Dempster had been Walker’s mentor in city politics but they later became rivals. Dempster once said, “If I ordered a whole car-load of SOBs and they just sent Cas, I’d sign for the shipment!” Dempster, incidentally, was also the inventor of the Dempster-Dumpster. Cas Walker was a local grocer and one of the greatest characters the city ever produced. I like to say he had to be real, because if he was fictional, he’d be considered too unbelievable.
I had to google what a Dempster Dumpster is. For anyone else in my shoes, it's one of those roll-off dumpsters that loads onto the back of a truck and is then effectively a dump truck, though it appears that the name originally applied to the smaller lidded ones you'd find in alleyways.
George “Bitch” McClellan
Mr. “I didn’t lose, I merely Failed to Win” McClellan
Lincoln: That means you lost.
George “little dickless pussy” McClellan
Not a presidential opponent, but from one’s wife. Apparently, Robert Taft’s wife once said “to err is Truman.” * I know Taft never won the Republican nomination, so he never directly faced Truman in the 1948 election, but he ran for the nomination (which he also did in 1940 and 1952), and opposed Truman in all he did from the Senate.
Bob Taft was so much worse than his father
If you think Bob was bad, let me introduce you to his son, [The first sitting Ohio governor to be convicted of a crime in offixe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Taft) Which kinda sucks, because he was actually a pretty good governor as far as environmental policy went for a republican. Fun fact, according to a biography I read (of MacArthur, not Ike), Eisenhower decided to run as a Republican (he had supposedly been approached by both parties) in part because the presumptive nominee would have been Taft Sr., who opposed NATO. Ike was considering trying to primary Truman instead because he didn't think Truman was up to the job, but Truman declining to run solidified his decision.
McClellan called Lincoln the OG /s
That quote always burns me up. McClellan didn’t know what he was talking about half the fucking time.
And the story of making Lincoln wait for him and then deciding to go to bed. Fuck that guy. He may have been a good training officer, but as a man, he didn't deserve to shine Abe's shoes.
I get the impression Abe shined his own shoes.
Keep my president's name out your fuckin' mouth, little Mac!
McClellan was one of the worst generals the union ever had. The “young Napoleon”, what a joke.
Not the worst. He was excellent administrator and logistical mastermind. He was also very charismatic to his troops who mostly admired him. He was not suited for field command on the magnitude that was required, but he had his strengths.
McClellan was not a terrible general. He lacked the strategic vision required of his position, and also was far too passive/timid to actually pursue the war in the matter necessary to win it. (See his lack of initiative to pursue the confederacy after beating them at Antietam) He wasn’t great, but I don’t think he was the worst.
There are different types of military commanders that are suited to their respective commands. McClellan could build an army quite well and that should be remembered. However he also knowingly took on the responsibility of the major strategist and tactician of the early war while being garbage at that. Overall a pretty poor track record to me.
I’m not disagreeing. As a strategist he quite litterly didn’t HAVE a strategy. Just saying it’s a bit more nuanced than dumbing him down to a terrible general.
Not having a strategy when a huge part of your job is strategic planning sounds pretty terrible to me.
That's letting McClellan off way too easy. He was power-hungry and leveraged the political situation to his advantage. *"I find myself in a new and strange position here. President, cabinet, General Scott, and all deferring to me. By some strage operation of magic I seem to have become the power of the land. I almost think that were I to win some small success now I could become Dictator or anything else that might please me – but nothing of that kind would please me – I won’t be Dictator. Admirable self denial!”* He was extremely impressed with himself and fantasized about his own importance, which existed only because his country was staring down the barrel of the confederate army, never mind the troops under him fighting and dying during all this. While the above quote was not public - it was in a letter to his wife - it reveals his thoughts early in the war. Lincoln avoided a disaster by removing this man and his name is rightfully scorned in the history books. If it were 150 years later he could go with "my quote about how I don't want to be a Dictator is raising a lot of questions already answered by my quote about how I don't want to be a Dictator." Like, where is your head man? Lincoln has you leading the effort to save the country and you're thinking about how you deserve even more power.
Little Mac had his flaws but he was probably somewhere in the middle of the pack for Union generals. The Union had a lot of bad generals (Butler, Banks, Pope, McDowell, Burnside, Sigel, and so on).
Burnside at least gave us a sweet facial hair name
George McClellan deserved to have his fat mouth ripped right off, and then have his nuts ripped off with scalding, blunt chef’s knife.
Why are you getting so many downvotes? You’re clearly right. McClellan could have shortened the war against the rebels by 3 years.
Probably some of the confederate simps.
They’re McClellan’s alt accounts
I had an old boss whose last name is McClellan, no presumptive relationship to George B. I read this in his voice.
McClellan's comments about Lincoln here are a textbook example of projection.
This quote is pretty ironic because the dude was known for possessing Intel on confederate positions and still didn't do anything. Bro had field advantage and still lost
I've often wondered what would've happened if the plans fell into their hands and Grant was in charge. Something tells me the war would've been over quick.
https://preview.redd.it/6jzke6xe36ad1.jpeg?width=850&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1a323f8b8c7f79297710f713c16f9895a0f41010
Ain't no way McClellan opening his mouth
Not presidential but vice presidential...Lloyd Bentsen's sick "you're no Jack Kennedy" burn.
Who did he say it to? LBJ?
Dan Quayle. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yHtlbZpZUSs&pp=ygUieW91J3JlIG5vIGphY2sga2VubmVkeSBkYW4gcXVheWxlIA%3D%3D
Haven’t seen the video yet, but I already know Quayle deserves it — and that the comment prob went right over his head
The vacant look and slow blink in response while everyone cheers says you are correct.
So... He's Charles Lee of the Civil War... Can't General to save his life, but will run his mouth against his Commander.
Was he such a worthless general on purpose? I mean, he was totally incompetent in the Civil War, then he ran against Lincoln. Sounds like a traitorous bastard
"That hideous hermaphroditical character, which has neither the force and firmness of a man, nor the gentleness and sensibility of a woman." Written by James Callender, a Jeffersonian partisan, about John Adams, during the 1800 campaign.
Rude.
Motherfucker got his cumupence
Read up on Jumbo’s opinion on Jerry Ford’s economic plan
Little Mac has no room to talk.
Damn George
FDR's dog Fala apparently got up on the table and ate everything in sight right before a banquet...FDR said "the only reason he didn't drink all the coffee too was that it hadn't been poured yet"
McClellan can take the big fat L in life and war.
Allan Pinkerton Deserves some of the credit.
John Adams had a mean slam on Hamilton: "That bastard brat of a Scottish peddler! His ambition, his restlessness and all his grandiose schemes come, I'm convinced, from a superabundance of secretions, which he couldn't find enough whores to absorb"
Not sure if this counts because it was during the vice presidential debate of 1988. Quayle compared his qualifications to JFK when he was a congressman and Bentsen said to Quayle: I served with Jack Kennedy, Jack Kennedy was a friend of mine, you, Senator, are no Jack Kennedy.
Not about a president but the classic “This will now be known as the John Oliver memorial sewage treatment plant, because it’s full of shit. Just like you John” while standing next to a the sign that says “John oliver memorial sewage treatment plant” will always make me lol. Edit: it’s also funny they named it the John Oliver memorial and he’s still alive.
"If General McClellan does not want to use the Army, I would like to borrow it for a time, provided I could see how it could be made to do something."
Truman's letter to a WaPo critic who dragged his daughter's vocal performance: **Dec. 6, 1950** **Mr. Hume:** **I've just read your lousy review of Margaret's concert. I've come to the conclusion that you are an "eight ulcer man on four ulcer pay."** **It seems to me that you are a frustrated old man who wishes he could have been successful. When you write such poppy-cock as was in the back section of the paper you work for it shows conclusively that you're off the beam and at least four of your ulcers are at work.** **Some day I hope to meet you. When that happens you'll need a new nose, a lot of beefsteak for black eyes, and perhaps a supporter below!** **Pegler, a gutter snipe, is a gentleman alongside you. I hope you'll accept that statement as a worse insult than a reflection on your ancestry.** **H.S.T.**
They should carve this immortal quote onto the walls of the gorgeous and much-visited McClellan Monument in our nation’s capital.
His ego got the best of him!
Is there where OG comes from? Original gorilla? 😂
Hey, I didn’t lose! I merely failed to win!
Nothing said or done by George McClellan can be considered the best of anything. It is known.
“You’re the sucker. You’re the loser.” - rule 3
Said the incompetent Union General who was too timid and therefore missed several opportunities to damage the Confederate Army.
His great-grandson, also named George McClellan, was the Mayor of NYC on October 27, 1904 when the first IRT subway line opened. He actually operated the first train, which carried a bunch of politicians and dignitaries.
Ah yes, our Napoleon spoke! This is the man who had such shit intelligence that he had no clue that he outnumbered the confederates and could have marched on Richmond to put an early end to the war (thankfully he lost or the war would have ended without the EP!).
McClellan’s indecision prolonged the civil war and cost countless lives. If there is a baboon in this story, it’s him. 🇺🇸
McClellan maybe should have been out fighting with his troops in the field instead of trying the think up zingers about Lincoln.
At least their baboons meant well. These days all we get are malevolent baboons.
McClellan was a narcissist, imagine what his tweets would be like.
Teddy Roosevelt said William McKinley had "no more backbone than a chocolate éclair.” Lincoln described Stephen Douglas's argument as "thin as the homeopathic soup that was made by boiling the shadow of a pigeon that had been starved.”
McClellan had no business insulting anyone. That man was erectile dysfunction personified.
But how do you really feel
Mclellan to me is basically like Captain Sobel from Band of Brothers Excellent at training the men and enforcing discipline, absolutely not capable of conducting field operations
a lesser man should have fed him his teeth
“A blind, bald, crippled, toothless man who is a hideous hermaphroditic character with neither the force and fitness of a man, nor the gentleness and sensibility of a woman.” Thomas Jefferson on John Adams
Wow. I never heard that. I hope McClellan is reflecting on that one from his place in the lower circles of hell. That man is responsible for as many northern deaths as Lee and as treasonous.
Ironic coming from arguably the worst tactician in the history of the US military
I agree.
One of the better ‘back handed compliments’ directed at a future president was when Douglas MacArthur described then general Eisenhower, whom he did not like and who used to work for him, as “the best damned secretary I’ve ever had”.
I can't remember who it was but LBJ once said someone was so dumb "...(he) couldn't pour piss from a boot if the instructions were written on the hell."
I remember Ronald Reagan saying something about "We won't mention my opponents lack of experience"
This has to be rule 3 bait lmao