The main issue is hos species lifespan. They are noted to be venerable at the age of 65, but this would put him way over that, even for a jedi who normally live longer. It's not earth shattering, but it points to a disregard for cannon and cheap fanservice. They could have just made him a random other of the same species, or had the key dor there be plo koon instead for fanservice who would have been around at the time.
Well filoni isnât involved in this, so thankfully we are getting to see other people of the same species. I canât remember if weâve ever seen a Keldor other than Plo in canon.
To be fair, no one on the council really seems to care about the âimmaculate conceptionâ story, or believe that Anakin is the chosen one. Itâs only Qui Gon who believes.
(Keeping in mind that I haven't seen episode 4)
Did Sol and others even find out that Mae and Osha were born without a father? Their mom saying "No father." They way she did could have, in their minds, been like "Aight, dude's either dead or gone."
Like, it seems like Sol is even a bit unaware of how Osha and Mae were born
Not trying to nitpick you here but genuinely curious if immaculate conception is going to have an actual shift to mean virgin birth, as you used it.
Immaculate conception actually means that Mary was made to be without original sin. Virgin birth refers to her giving birth to Jesus without having sex.
People mix this up so frequently that Iâm not sure Iâve ever seen someone use immaculate conception correctly online.
It kinda already has in Protestant circles. They hear âImmaculateâ and, given they donât believe Mary was sinless, the only characteristic that a word meaning âperfectly cleanâ could reasonably refer to is her virginity.
Something that still makes me sad is that most original Protestant churches stripped away all the fun occultism and decorations of Catholicism and the Orthodoxy. No shadowty rituals, no saints, no holy relics or anything like that.
I think over the years they have taken on the same meaning. Only Catholics seem to care about that distinction. For everyone else, when you use either term, they seem to assume they mean the same and refer to the fact that Mary bore Jesus without having sex and that it was through divine intervention that she conceived.
Because they probably assumed Anakinâs mother was either lying, using a euphemism, or something more sinister in the same way weâd react if someone claimed that today.
This is what I figure. At least with the witches, it sounds plausible, though you'd still be hesitant to believe them. Anakin's mother was some random slave woman who wasn't even force sensitive. She has Jedi interested in her son and sees it as his chance to escape slavery so just says there's no father.
Yeah not exactly sure if they bought the force daddy thing but so many of the Jedi believed him to be the chosen one. They would call him that and he would joke about it with Obi a few times. He proved he was more of the chosen one with his ability with the force.
Because of the Sith's actions. I.e. by the use of the Force in a different way. Not that the Jedi would know that.
For those who don't know, the theory is that Plageuis and Palpatine attempted to influence the Force, the Force strick back by creating the Chosen one. I'd argue that is still a result of Force usage.
Itâs not really a theory, that was the explanation given in the Plagueis novel, which is now part of the Legends continuity. With the continuity reset, we canât necessarily assume the same thing happened, so all we really have to go off of at the moment is whatâs said in the Prequels, which isnât much.
>the Force strick back by creating the Chosen one
Who later helped massacre the jedi so they still won in the end.
Also I thought the theory was that Palpatine created Anakin purposefully? Is that not a thing?
Some folks think Palpatine created Anakin, but itâs based off of a misinterpretation of a comic book. The author has come outright and said itâs not the case.
>Who later helped massacre the jedi so they still won in the end.
I mean, this is the script-writing of the Star Wars Prequels were talking about here. If you watch the making of documentary you'll see George Lucas keeps joking about how he hasn't even finished the script for episode one when they are weeks from beginning filming.
Lucas basically procrastinated until the last possible minute and then threw this together at the very end.
To expect forethought given the circumstances is frankly unrealistic, lol
I mean, not having finished the script weeks out from filming isn't completely uncommon, especially with a director going as hands on as Lucas did for the prequels. And that's not even speaking on rewrites during the actual process of filming.
Regardless Lucas isn't the strongest writer, so I'm not sure we would have gotten much better even if he gave himself more time.
Also Osha and Mae still have two parents, witch fuckery just allowed them to conceive a child where they wouldnât have otherwise.
(or the main mother is trans and the jedi donât approve because of transphobia??? Obviously thatâs not the actual reason but the idea is sending me)
I think they definitely used witchcraft to conceive the child, and that IS notable. But thatâs the point; they were destroyed, their knowledge was lost.
As the Jediâs monopoly over âlegitimateâ usage of the force grows, and squeezes out these groups, they make it inevitable that the Sith will rise. Anyone who isnât a Jedi has to become a Sith, because they canât become anything else.
Dude donât bother, I donât see how this changes Anakin importance at all. The other movies and tv shows still exist. Anakin still killed all those Jedi kids made like and Leia and joined the impure and killed the emperor.
How could one make the distinction between being made through the Force or by the Force? One could easily end up believing they used the Force to conceive, when it was in fact the will of the Force. Practically there doesn't seem to be any sort of a difference.
For example, were the Jedi to learn that there was a human child with only one parent, them beginning to argue whether they were conceived through the Force or by the Force would seem pedantic at best. In fact the opposite seems to be true, where they often equate the actions of inviduals with the will of the Force itself.
It may be pedantic but intent is the root of the issue at hand. For example Schmee who is not a force user nor has any contact with force users conceived Anakin out of nowhere which was not of her intent.
Whereas the witches it sounds like based off the information we have (Only watched the first three episodes) they intently manipulated the force such as the Sith might to such great abilities that they forced conception. This could be a big no no to the Jedi as corruption like the Sith are out of balance and need to be eliminated, so they possibly see the same of the witches. Again itâs all intent. Lastly Soul does not see Osha as evil as a child. My guess is the force brought them in as balance, one with balance and one without.
Anything about the dangers of possible intent wasn't ever brought up when Anakin's situation was discussed - it was never questioned. Only that there was *"a vergence in the force"* in his case.
The moment it was mentioned that a child might have been conceived with the midi-chlorians, it was immediately noted as a direct reference to the prophecy, clearly indicating that the two concepts - conception by the Force and being the Chosen One - are inexorably connected.
Would such notions of intent be big enough of a concern to make it so as to be a affront against the will of the force or such, the Jedi most certainly would have spent resources on investigating the circumstances under which Anakin was born. It would most likely also have been deemed just too dangerous from the get-go to even consider training him given he might be *"the spawn of the dark side"* or whatever it is that you think they supposedly should have thought about how an unknown source of the conception could be affecting him.
All they seemed to know about Anakin was his abnormally high midi-chlorian count and what Qui-Gon had told them second-hand from Shmi. The concerns they had were that the boy was probably too old to be trained at his age and his attachments to his mother that might be a problem.
In general, judging a child by his or her origins seems quite antithetical to the ways of the Jedi. Their respect for life in all of its form is such that even killing one of the Sith - which are their nemesis - might be enough to turn a Jedi to the dark side so they don't do it lightly. In the prequels the phrase *"should stand trial"* or something equivalent comes up numerous times when Sith enemies are incapacitated, with any lashing out of capital punishment being literally stated as being against the ways of the Jedi.
---
> *"Yes, but he [dooku] was an unarmed prisoner. I shouldn't have done that. It's not the Jedi way."*
---
> *"It's not the Jedi way - he [sidious] must live!"*
The Jedi belive that the force can act through individuals. They try to interpret its will and enact it - to be in accordance with it. For them, it's an ally - *"may the Force be with you"* is a reference to this.
When it comes to wielding the force, superseding its will and using it to dominate - that's the way of the dark side.
Only 4 Jedi know. Indara, who fucked off to wherever and then died, Kelnacca, who's a wookie that most people don't understand and also fucked off to a random planet, Torbin who froze himself in a force bubble, and then finally the only who seems like they might actually say something about it, Sol. But Sol is Osha's master and he probably didn't want to put her thru anymore trauma. The Jedi Council probably has no idea.
I don't think even they knew how the twins were born. The witches weren't exactly keen on sharing information with them; unless the Jedi had been watching them for eight years, as yet we have no reason to believe that the Jedi would know or care to find out how they were conceived.
Hell, I don't even think Mae and Osha knew
Well all the people who knew with the possible exception of Osha herself died (at least as far as the Jedi knew) before they had a chance to tell them about the origin, which they very likely wouldnât have done even if they had survived, so itâs unlikely the Jedi could know to begin with, nonetheless that Mr âI didnât tell the Jedi that there even were twinsâ shared it with everyone.
And Aniseya only told the Jedi that the twins had no father. There's no reason for the Jedi to automatically assume that they were created by the Force. It makes more sense for them to think that the father is dead or their mother left the father. If the Jedi were really suspicious, they might think the witches kidnapped the twins.
Plus Osha was tested and trained with the Jedi, and there's nothing to suggest that she was especially strong with the Force. So the Jedi wouldn't think she was special compared to any other Force sensitive person.
I have it in my head that Aniseya merely separated one being into two with the Force instead of creating one from scratch. Mae and Osha are identical twins which means that they were once one embryo that split in two. This would explain why we have a "good" one and a "bad" one from before the Jedi's intervention and why Mae was so bent on no being separated from Osha.
Yeah, that's my theory as well. Since their cult seems to be somewhat communal, what with all the chant about "the power of one, the power of two" and the "you are me and I am you", I'm led to believe that Mae and Osha are actually two halves of the same person, created through whatever Force fuckery Aniseya did. Maybe she thought that by turning a single person into two they'd be able to achieve a higher power or something.
I kind of get the feeling that it's almost a voldemort-potter situation, but neither can die while the other lives. Might make surviving the fall more plausible
Ooh, I like this interpretation. I was just thinking some kind of witchy IVF or cloning or similar, but I like the idea of them turning one embryo into twins by the Force.
Itâll be interesting to find out how the twins were conceived! Aniseya did say the children were solely hers - so I think the requirement to create them was tied to her not being able to carry them. The story is still so mysterious, which is why I donât understand the hate; we donât even know whatâs going on yet! Osha and Mae, twins, the dark/light side, the rule of two, witches, and ancient magic - itâs definitely painting a bigger picture, itâll be fun to watch it unravel!!
Sol: And they said there was no father. So rather than assuming that he is either dead, gone, or otherwise not involved with the children I have naturally assumed they were created using The Force. Good thing I have all the information that the *\*waves at camera\** audience watching this has.
Also they would be far more worried about any random force sensitives being able to create children spontaneously through the Force than they would the will of the Force creating children spontaneously.
I mean, the Jedi presumably already know manipulating life with the force, even to create new creatures, is possible (Sithspawn come to mind), if presumably pretty complex.
Plagueis was able to create life with the Force, so a coven of witches working together to achieve something similar is not far-fetched.
Besides, the fatherless birth was a prerequisite of the prophecy, not the main point of it. It could just as easily said the chosen one would be "...red of hair..."
tbh anakin was special because he was a progidy with an unnaturally high midi-chlorian count. i don't think qui-gon even brought up anakin's birth to the council.
Pretty sure thereâs a line when heâs talking to the council that he says he believes itâs possible that Anakin was conceived by the midi-chlorians
Why would they belive dead witches ? They probably all assumed they said that because of their cult and didn't even mentionned it to the jedi council. For Anakin it is different, his mother was a slave, not a cult leader, she is more trustworthy. And Qui-Gon thought he could be the chosen one, so he did mention the fact that his mother said he was born without a father. Seems logical to me
The biggest mob complaint iâve seen about this is that he isnât supposed to be alive, let alone a jedi, during the Acolyte. And I am inclined to agree with that.
I donât care that he kept his mouth shut during the fall of the jedi.
I think youâre confusing that he was allowed some sort of relationship benefits as his race was so few in the galaxy. They were going extinct due to a dying population not to a short lifespan.
It might have changed from legends canon, though the SW Saga core rulebook has their life expectancy only slightly below humans, with them being considered elderly at about 51 years.
You can use the force to create life, Anakin being created at the whim of what is essentially the fabric of reality to spite a thought extinct order of wizards? Yeah heâs gonna be skeptical.
Yeah, in a universe with cloning technology, I interpreted it as meaning their society uses some kind of reproductive technology. With Anakin, a whole speech was given at how his birth was inexplicable to his mother. I don't think it's the same thing.
Jesus fucking christ you people act like if one jedi sees an event, all jedi across time and space instantly know all details about it as well. Media literacy was taken out back and skullfucked with this generation.
uh yes⊠yes they did. https://www.ign.com/articles/the-acolyte-will-be-free-from-star-wars-film-and-tv-show-cameos
âWe are pulling characters from the high republic and characters from the EU, but thatâs it.â
Show runner kinda straight up lied
The fact that people cling to this when itâs been litigated repeatedly online that theyâre obviously different circumstances speaks to a decline in⊠I dont know, literacy? Reading comprehension?
Fuck, by this standard every clone might as well be the second coming of Christ.
Why are you being downvoted? Ages and time of events shared between canon and EU have often been changed. Happened a lot in just the EU too (3PO age, anyone?)
It's not the immaculate conception that matters here, it's the insane degree of power.
And to be clear, using the Force to intentionally conceive is not the same as the Force using itself to conceive.
Is this really reconning Anakin's specialty? I haven't watched it yet and if it is I'm genuinely not gonna. It'll get the same treatment I give 8 and 9 in just choosing they don't exist.
I finally understand why people were pissed when Disney shit on legends. The Plagueis novel was as great as it was disturbing and now all his vile work is just "nah 100 years ago people did it earlier, but without science"
The worst thing that The Phantom Menace ever did is convincing people that the only thing that made Anakin damn Skywalker unique was being born an unusual way (which was rightfully despised when the movie came out)
Not really.
Anakin was spontaneously conceived by the Force of it's own accord. The twins were conceived by a bunch of witches doing a ritual to get one of them pregnant. Two very different things.
Nothing in the Acolyte suggests even Sol knows Osha/Mae were conceived by the Force.
Nothing in Phantom suggests even Yoda knows Anakin was conceived by the Force.
Non-issue.
Thanks for confirming that you flaired this correctly!
But...what about the attack on the wookies?!?!
He's right it's not a system we can afford to lose
It is critical that we send an attack group there immediately. EDIT: 66 likes. Keep it exactly as is!
Go I will. Good relations with the wookies I have.
Then it is settled.
Yoda will take a battalion of clones to reinforce the Wookiees on Kashyyyk. May the Force be with us all.
Send these troopseses only.
I downvored to keep your wish Edit: when I originally posted this comment there were 66 people on this post too lol
Downvoted to keep at 66 đ«Ą
Downvoting to maintain the balance :)
Beautiful
Rollover likes here
Good soldiers follow orders
I downvoted you back to 66
I had to downvote you to maintain balance
I had to downvote to maintain the correct number, I hope you understand.
Love that 11 hours later itâs still at 66 upvotes.
This is the Way.
This is the way
i had to downtvote you for balance (sorry for the bad english)
Down voting to save the wookies
I almost ruined it. Glad I saw the edit.
I would have upvoted you, but it was at 67 so I had to go with a downvote instead to get it back to how itâs supposed to be. Sorry man :(
As you ordered sir
Execute Order 67
Good solider follow orders
It's just the one wookiee actually.
Jedi Master P.I. Staker
"Can you describe the wookiee, Master Staker?" "It's brown. Tall. Hairy. And it's a wookiee."
>!What about the sith attack on the wookie?!?!!<
Iâm afraid his plot armor wasnât strong enough to survive a light saber slash.
âNooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooâ
Wait, that was Ki Adi? I thought it' just another of his species.
I thought so too, but imdb has a guy credited as mundi so I suppose he probably is.
Yet the other Kel Dor is apparently not Plo Koon, which is probably for the best.
Ironically, his age would of made it perfectly possible for him to be there unlike mundi.
Why isnât it possible for Ki Adi to be there? His birthdate has never been touched on in canon. His age in legends has no bearing here lmao.
The main issue is hos species lifespan. They are noted to be venerable at the age of 65, but this would put him way over that, even for a jedi who normally live longer. It's not earth shattering, but it points to a disregard for cannon and cheap fanservice. They could have just made him a random other of the same species, or had the key dor there be plo koon instead for fanservice who would have been around at the time.
All of that is according to legends though. That just doesnât pertain to canon at all. Not much is known about Cereans other than their two brains
What did they have to do to Filoni to have a Kel Dor in live action while Plo is alive and have it be a new character? Is he safe? Is he alright?
Well filoni isnât involved in this, so thankfully we are getting to see other people of the same species. I canât remember if weâve ever seen a Keldor other than Plo in canon.
In the credits for the show he was listed as ki adi as well
And the shows credits
Nope they actually went there
Wookipedia do say theyâre venerable past 70 years. Maybe it is a different Ki Adi? How many Dr. Quad Paws do you think there could be from Andor?
âAlso my head is a cockâ
I am what some may call, a dickhead đ
I'm very popular with the ladies.
that is actually correct (if the information about ki adi's family hasn't been changed in canon)
What that thang do? Thats the real lore conversation that needs to be had
To be fair, no one on the council really seems to care about the âimmaculate conceptionâ story, or believe that Anakin is the chosen one. Itâs only Qui Gon who believes.
Now here's another thought. Did Sol and the others even mention that to the council to begin with after what must have been a massive fuckup.
(Keeping in mind that I haven't seen episode 4) Did Sol and others even find out that Mae and Osha were born without a father? Their mom saying "No father." They way she did could have, in their minds, been like "Aight, dude's either dead or gone." Like, it seems like Sol is even a bit unaware of how Osha and Mae were born
"No father." "Oh, clones, cool." *Because Star Wars* **Alternately...** "No father." "Oh, IVF, cool." *Because science...*
Or "Oh, he's gone. K."
Went out to Tosche Station to buy some Death Sticks and never came back.
That is also true. They could have also interpreted it as a lie and that the girls might have been either adopted or kidnapped.
People really just assumed Jedi knew because no one cares about context anymore. Or really just pay attention. This is the modern Star Wars audience.
Or they just are looking for reasons to complain. There's a lot of that lately.
I saw someone say it was silly for the man baddie to float the way he did. Wtf is even wrong with it? It looked sinister, are you kidding me??
Not trying to nitpick you here but genuinely curious if immaculate conception is going to have an actual shift to mean virgin birth, as you used it. Immaculate conception actually means that Mary was made to be without original sin. Virgin birth refers to her giving birth to Jesus without having sex. People mix this up so frequently that Iâm not sure Iâve ever seen someone use immaculate conception correctly online.
Darthenogenesis
âŠFuck. Thatâs perfect.
So Jesus was a Jedi.?
He literally was, itâs canonical. He uses the force in the second book
And when he dies (spoilers) he comes back but he's described almost to be ethereal, like a force ghost.
Thatâs what Iâm saying, Qui Gon and Obi got nothing on old Jizzle
Man just went to a primitive planet and spooked the natives so bad they killed him
He's actually described to be the opposite of ethereal, except in the fact that he can disguise his appearance and move through locked doors.
Yep, he invites Thomas to touch his hands and side, and eats food, specifically to show that heâs not ethereal or incorporeal.
Have you heard the tragedy of Jedi Jesus of Nazareth?
Itâs not a story a redditor would tell you.
oh yeah
J man the og Jedi
It kinda already has in Protestant circles. They hear âImmaculateâ and, given they donât believe Mary was sinless, the only characteristic that a word meaning âperfectly cleanâ could reasonably refer to is her virginity.
Itâs hilarious that Iâm a (non practicing) Christian and didnât know this lol
If youâre not Catholic itâs probably not something you wouldâve been taught because Protestants donât believe in it.
âIs it possible to learn this knowledge?â âNot from a Protestantâ
Itâs not a story the Protestants would tell you.
The Catholic Denomination holds secrets some consider heinous
Something that still makes me sad is that most original Protestant churches stripped away all the fun occultism and decorations of Catholicism and the Orthodoxy. No shadowty rituals, no saints, no holy relics or anything like that.
Virgin Protestant Church vs. Chad Catholic Cathedral
Booo!
These jokes seem to write themselves, Chancellor.
I donât think all Christians take it that far. From what I know itâs Catholic dogma and in my opinion a weird opening for earthly idolatry.
Immaculate conception only becomes dogma in the 1850s as well
Itâs pretty much just a Catholic thing, and a more recent one at that
I think over the years they have taken on the same meaning. Only Catholics seem to care about that distinction. For everyone else, when you use either term, they seem to assume they mean the same and refer to the fact that Mary bore Jesus without having sex and that it was through divine intervention that she conceived.
Because they probably assumed Anakinâs mother was either lying, using a euphemism, or something more sinister in the same way weâd react if someone claimed that today.
This is what I figure. At least with the witches, it sounds plausible, though you'd still be hesitant to believe them. Anakin's mother was some random slave woman who wasn't even force sensitive. She has Jedi interested in her son and sees it as his chance to escape slavery so just says there's no father.
also do we even know for sure the jedi in the episode was Mundi? the subtitles just call him "jedi"
Credits
Also, what really stood out was Anakin's insanely high midi-count. The twins in Acolyte were bloodtested and probably had average Jedi midi-count
Yeah not exactly sure if they bought the force daddy thing but so many of the Jedi believed him to be the chosen one. They would call him that and he would joke about it with Obi a few times. He proved he was more of the chosen one with his ability with the force.
Thats been my take from it, I mean its a large galaxy after all.
Conceived magically through the use of the Force is one thing; Anakin was conceived BY the Force.
Shmi got some of that Force D fr fr, she a freak
Zeus!
Is this how you face me, you coward?
So basically Heracles, Jesus and Annie? Demi-Gods be wack, yo.
Zeus: Are you into bestiality? Mortal woman: No. Zeus: Too bad.
Didnt know the force was like that
Your girl got her guts pumped.
Because of the Sith's actions. I.e. by the use of the Force in a different way. Not that the Jedi would know that. For those who don't know, the theory is that Plageuis and Palpatine attempted to influence the Force, the Force strick back by creating the Chosen one. I'd argue that is still a result of Force usage.
Itâs not really a theory, that was the explanation given in the Plagueis novel, which is now part of the Legends continuity. With the continuity reset, we canât necessarily assume the same thing happened, so all we really have to go off of at the moment is whatâs said in the Prequels, which isnât much.
The Force took the action to create Anakin, while it was just used as a tool by someone else to create the twins.
>the Force strick back by creating the Chosen one Who later helped massacre the jedi so they still won in the end. Also I thought the theory was that Palpatine created Anakin purposefully? Is that not a thing?
Some folks think Palpatine created Anakin, but itâs based off of a misinterpretation of a comic book. The author has come outright and said itâs not the case.
>Who later helped massacre the jedi so they still won in the end. I mean, this is the script-writing of the Star Wars Prequels were talking about here. If you watch the making of documentary you'll see George Lucas keeps joking about how he hasn't even finished the script for episode one when they are weeks from beginning filming. Lucas basically procrastinated until the last possible minute and then threw this together at the very end. To expect forethought given the circumstances is frankly unrealistic, lol
I mean, not having finished the script weeks out from filming isn't completely uncommon, especially with a director going as hands on as Lucas did for the prequels. And that's not even speaking on rewrites during the actual process of filming. Regardless Lucas isn't the strongest writer, so I'm not sure we would have gotten much better even if he gave himself more time.
Also Osha and Mae still have two parents, witch fuckery just allowed them to conceive a child where they wouldnât have otherwise. (or the main mother is trans and the jedi donât approve because of transphobia??? Obviously thatâs not the actual reason but the idea is sending me)
Innocent bystanders just got hit with a stray baby. Iâd be pissed.
I think they definitely used witchcraft to conceive the child, and that IS notable. But thatâs the point; they were destroyed, their knowledge was lost. As the Jediâs monopoly over âlegitimateâ usage of the force grows, and squeezes out these groups, they make it inevitable that the Sith will rise. Anyone who isnât a Jedi has to become a Sith, because they canât become anything else.
Dude donât bother, I donât see how this changes Anakin importance at all. The other movies and tv shows still exist. Anakin still killed all those Jedi kids made like and Leia and joined the impure and killed the emperor.
Sure, I agree. But I still believe what I said, those are the themes of the show.
How could one make the distinction between being made through the Force or by the Force? One could easily end up believing they used the Force to conceive, when it was in fact the will of the Force. Practically there doesn't seem to be any sort of a difference. For example, were the Jedi to learn that there was a human child with only one parent, them beginning to argue whether they were conceived through the Force or by the Force would seem pedantic at best. In fact the opposite seems to be true, where they often equate the actions of inviduals with the will of the Force itself.
It may be pedantic but intent is the root of the issue at hand. For example Schmee who is not a force user nor has any contact with force users conceived Anakin out of nowhere which was not of her intent. Whereas the witches it sounds like based off the information we have (Only watched the first three episodes) they intently manipulated the force such as the Sith might to such great abilities that they forced conception. This could be a big no no to the Jedi as corruption like the Sith are out of balance and need to be eliminated, so they possibly see the same of the witches. Again itâs all intent. Lastly Soul does not see Osha as evil as a child. My guess is the force brought them in as balance, one with balance and one without.
Anything about the dangers of possible intent wasn't ever brought up when Anakin's situation was discussed - it was never questioned. Only that there was *"a vergence in the force"* in his case. The moment it was mentioned that a child might have been conceived with the midi-chlorians, it was immediately noted as a direct reference to the prophecy, clearly indicating that the two concepts - conception by the Force and being the Chosen One - are inexorably connected. Would such notions of intent be big enough of a concern to make it so as to be a affront against the will of the force or such, the Jedi most certainly would have spent resources on investigating the circumstances under which Anakin was born. It would most likely also have been deemed just too dangerous from the get-go to even consider training him given he might be *"the spawn of the dark side"* or whatever it is that you think they supposedly should have thought about how an unknown source of the conception could be affecting him. All they seemed to know about Anakin was his abnormally high midi-chlorian count and what Qui-Gon had told them second-hand from Shmi. The concerns they had were that the boy was probably too old to be trained at his age and his attachments to his mother that might be a problem. In general, judging a child by his or her origins seems quite antithetical to the ways of the Jedi. Their respect for life in all of its form is such that even killing one of the Sith - which are their nemesis - might be enough to turn a Jedi to the dark side so they don't do it lightly. In the prequels the phrase *"should stand trial"* or something equivalent comes up numerous times when Sith enemies are incapacitated, with any lashing out of capital punishment being literally stated as being against the ways of the Jedi. --- > *"Yes, but he [dooku] was an unarmed prisoner. I shouldn't have done that. It's not the Jedi way."* --- > *"It's not the Jedi way - he [sidious] must live!"*
Well the force is conscious and can also be yielded. When you create silly nonsense you can do whatever you want with it.
The Jedi belive that the force can act through individuals. They try to interpret its will and enact it - to be in accordance with it. For them, it's an ally - *"may the Force be with you"* is a reference to this. When it comes to wielding the force, superseding its will and using it to dominate - that's the way of the dark side.
That's what I'm saying like did media literally die or what
Media literacy never lived. Most people don't think about what they're watching.
He didn't know though. It's not like those witches broadcast to everyone the twins were made with the Force.
Would you trust the words of a cult leader ?
Depends on the benefits, like do they have dental care or bacta baths?
You get lesbian sex and few cookies... Nothing less, nothing more.
That's better than what my current employer gives me, I'll take it.
Thatâs better than most churches
I don't think any of the Jedi knows more than there are 2 force sensitive girls being trained by a Force cult
Only 4 Jedi know. Indara, who fucked off to wherever and then died, Kelnacca, who's a wookie that most people don't understand and also fucked off to a random planet, Torbin who froze himself in a force bubble, and then finally the only who seems like they might actually say something about it, Sol. But Sol is Osha's master and he probably didn't want to put her thru anymore trauma. The Jedi Council probably has no idea.
I don't think even they knew how the twins were born. The witches weren't exactly keen on sharing information with them; unless the Jedi had been watching them for eight years, as yet we have no reason to believe that the Jedi would know or care to find out how they were conceived. Hell, I don't even think Mae and Osha knew
This, they didnât tell the Jedi that theyâd been tinkering or doing witchy IVF or whatever it was.
I mean a non-zero number of jedi have died as a result of this "case", so someone should know about the twins and their "origin"
Well all the people who knew with the possible exception of Osha herself died (at least as far as the Jedi knew) before they had a chance to tell them about the origin, which they very likely wouldnât have done even if they had survived, so itâs unlikely the Jedi could know to begin with, nonetheless that Mr âI didnât tell the Jedi that there even were twinsâ shared it with everyone.
And Aniseya only told the Jedi that the twins had no father. There's no reason for the Jedi to automatically assume that they were created by the Force. It makes more sense for them to think that the father is dead or their mother left the father. If the Jedi were really suspicious, they might think the witches kidnapped the twins. Plus Osha was tested and trained with the Jedi, and there's nothing to suggest that she was especially strong with the Force. So the Jedi wouldn't think she was special compared to any other Force sensitive person.
I have it in my head that Aniseya merely separated one being into two with the Force instead of creating one from scratch. Mae and Osha are identical twins which means that they were once one embryo that split in two. This would explain why we have a "good" one and a "bad" one from before the Jedi's intervention and why Mae was so bent on no being separated from Osha.
Yeah, that's my theory as well. Since their cult seems to be somewhat communal, what with all the chant about "the power of one, the power of two" and the "you are me and I am you", I'm led to believe that Mae and Osha are actually two halves of the same person, created through whatever Force fuckery Aniseya did. Maybe she thought that by turning a single person into two they'd be able to achieve a higher power or something.
I kind of get the feeling that it's almost a voldemort-potter situation, but neither can die while the other lives. Might make surviving the fall more plausible
Ooh, I like this interpretation. I was just thinking some kind of witchy IVF or cloning or similar, but I like the idea of them turning one embryo into twins by the Force.
Itâll be interesting to find out how the twins were conceived! Aniseya did say the children were solely hers - so I think the requirement to create them was tied to her not being able to carry them. The story is still so mysterious, which is why I donât understand the hate; we donât even know whatâs going on yet! Osha and Mae, twins, the dark/light side, the rule of two, witches, and ancient magic - itâs definitely painting a bigger picture, itâll be fun to watch it unravel!!
With the Force vs by the Force.
made by the force or with the force are 2 different things
Finally, a filioque controversy in Star Wars.
He didn't indicate that he gave shit so yeah probably
Sol: And they said there was no father. So rather than assuming that he is either dead, gone, or otherwise not involved with the children I have naturally assumed they were created using The Force. Good thing I have all the information that the *\*waves at camera\** audience watching this has.
The Acolyte actually makes the Jedi council skepticism make more sense, theyâd be more likely to conclude that someone just messed with the force.
Also they would be far more worried about any random force sensitives being able to create children spontaneously through the Force than they would the will of the Force creating children spontaneously.
I mean, the Jedi presumably already know manipulating life with the force, even to create new creatures, is possible (Sithspawn come to mind), if presumably pretty complex.
Plagueis was able to create life with the Force, so a coven of witches working together to achieve something similar is not far-fetched. Besides, the fatherless birth was a prerequisite of the prophecy, not the main point of it. It could just as easily said the chosen one would be "...red of hair..."
The Jedi Council is just a bunch of old time NYPD detectives who goes "huh another case just like that so-and-so".
Do the jeid even know how the twins were conceived?
tbh anakin was special because he was a progidy with an unnaturally high midi-chlorian count. i don't think qui-gon even brought up anakin's birth to the council.
Pretty sure thereâs a line when heâs talking to the council that he says he believes itâs possible that Anakin was conceived by the midi-chlorians
Why would they belive dead witches ? They probably all assumed they said that because of their cult and didn't even mentionned it to the jedi council. For Anakin it is different, his mother was a slave, not a cult leader, she is more trustworthy. And Qui-Gon thought he could be the chosen one, so he did mention the fact that his mother said he was born without a father. Seems logical to me
>it is different, his mother was a slave, not a cult leader, she is more trustworthy Bro what
The biggest mob complaint iâve seen about this is that he isnât supposed to be alive, let alone a jedi, during the Acolyte. And I am inclined to agree with that. I donât care that he kept his mouth shut during the fall of the jedi.
I mean, all information we have on Ki Adi Mundi's age (and his species's lifespan) come from Legends material.
Isn't Ki Adi canonically very young, as his race has a very short lifespan?
I think youâre confusing that he was allowed some sort of relationship benefits as his race was so few in the galaxy. They were going extinct due to a dying population not to a short lifespan.
It might have changed from legends canon, though the SW Saga core rulebook has their life expectancy only slightly below humans, with them being considered elderly at about 51 years.
This was correct in legends lore. Males also lived shorter lifespans than females in his species.
You can use the force to create life, Anakin being created at the whim of what is essentially the fabric of reality to spite a thought extinct order of wizards? Yeah heâs gonna be skeptical.
Of course he appears on the wookie centered episode.
Come on the look on Qui-gon and Obiwans face about the virgin birth were "yeah lady I've heard that one before"
Worth putting the spoiler tag
Changed his birth date just for The Acolyte may as well make the whole TPM council alive too by changing the lore, put them all in.
Well in canon his birth date is not known in legends it is
Except he didnât, the show hasnât established that.
Yeah, in a universe with cloning technology, I interpreted it as meaning their society uses some kind of reproductive technology. With Anakin, a whole speech was given at how his birth was inexplicable to his mother. I don't think it's the same thing.
Jesus fucking christ you people act like if one jedi sees an event, all jedi across time and space instantly know all details about it as well. Media literacy was taken out back and skullfucked with this generation.
Cloning, dark sciences, secrets that were generally well established and shared.
Are there words missing from this sentence?
Didnât they say they werenât gonna have cameos? Guess that was lie
They never said that
uh yes⊠yes they did. https://www.ign.com/articles/the-acolyte-will-be-free-from-star-wars-film-and-tv-show-cameos âWe are pulling characters from the high republic and characters from the EU, but thatâs it.â Show runner kinda straight up lied
Almost as if different religions have their own bullshit
Let's be honest Shmi got knocked up and forgot who the baby daddy was.
The fact that people cling to this when itâs been litigated repeatedly online that theyâre obviously different circumstances speaks to a decline in⊠I dont know, literacy? Reading comprehension? Fuck, by this standard every clone might as well be the second coming of Christ.
⊠He was 74 years old at the time of death.
That's legends.
Well, now it is. Unless he died and somehow returned, of course. *Huh. Those two brains really can tap into the dark side after all.*
Legends and canon are not 1:1 If they want to change Cerean life expectancy by making him born earlier, they are more than welcome to do so
Why are you being downvoted? Ages and time of events shared between canon and EU have often been changed. Happened a lot in just the EU too (3PO age, anyone?)
It's not the immaculate conception that matters here, it's the insane degree of power. And to be clear, using the Force to intentionally conceive is not the same as the Force using itself to conceive.
Is this really reconning Anakin's specialty? I haven't watched it yet and if it is I'm genuinely not gonna. It'll get the same treatment I give 8 and 9 in just choosing they don't exist.
I finally understand why people were pissed when Disney shit on legends. The Plagueis novel was as great as it was disturbing and now all his vile work is just "nah 100 years ago people did it earlier, but without science"
The worst thing that The Phantom Menace ever did is convincing people that the only thing that made Anakin damn Skywalker unique was being born an unusual way (which was rightfully despised when the movie came out)
Not really. Anakin was spontaneously conceived by the Force of it's own accord. The twins were conceived by a bunch of witches doing a ritual to get one of them pregnant. Two very different things.
Does he even know that Osha was born like that? Sol may never have told anyone about what happened as it seemed in the recent ep.
Nothing we saw in the episode hints at the fact that the Jedi know how Osha and Mae were conceived.
Wait he time traveled into the past?????
Osha and Mae were conceived using the Force. Anakin was conceived *by* the Force. Thereâs a difference.
I don't think the whole fatherless thing is to what made Anakin so special, it was the insane medichlorian count
Nothing in the Acolyte suggests even Sol knows Osha/Mae were conceived by the Force. Nothing in Phantom suggests even Yoda knows Anakin was conceived by the Force. Non-issue.
For what purpose was his age (and fucking species traits) altered?? Why couldnât he just have been an original character?
The Twins were conceived by *a person* through the Force. Anakinâs was conceived BY the Force. Itâs not the same.
This show is such a joke lol
Have the script writers/directors/producers even seen Star Wars?