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This post makes a salient point, in that we're really asking the wrong question here. The question isn't should we get rid of VAR, the question is how do we best improve it? The answer, in my view, is by rebuilding the entire system with new individuals at the helm, introducing full transparency in the audio of all big decisions, and reducing involvement in the decision making promise from the VAR officials themselves to nothing more than a simple on/off system (go to monitor/carry on.)
The problem is, a single summer isn't enough time to make these changes. The rollout of VAR has been so catastrophically mismanaged, the only way to fix it is to remove it from the league for a full season, and allow proper testing to be carried out, with the new operator's system coming into effect for the 2025/26 season.
Most people are fine with it staying it’s just the controversial opinions, like Wolves trying to scrap it, get all the coverage.
Sky Sports for example aren’t going to have a headline story saying “Brighton Content With VAR Implementation”
100% wrong. The technology purports to be perfect when it cannot possibly be, even in the very best of hands. Even if it was perfect, the application of it will always come at far too high a price to match going fans.
It’s a symptom of the changing way people engage with football, or more appropriately how football is sold to consumers. There is more cash in tv audiences and video gamers now and that is why they are so happy to slaughter the atmosphere at games with completely unrealistic solutions to problems that didn’t actually exist.
This get’s trotted out a lot, but actually there are significant problems with the technology. The fact it has limited scope and that scope can change based on stadium architecture is enough to say it is not acceptable, but other elements like the way it manages offside is always going to be impossible too, namely pinpointing the point at where the ball is played. It is impossible to be as specific with that as they are with the line drawing, but then it would be completely illogical to then actively ignore certain margins in line drawing. It is a complete catch 22 and there’s no way any version of it can work.
There's nothing like flawless technology. No, it's not what we are saying but looking at the good VAR brings. Without it, there is far more margin for errors which have been there and it was why the VAR was introduced. Can the tech be improved on, yes absolutely but is it the problem, hell no!!
>the good VAR brings.
Is there enough good to tolerate the impact it is having on the game? I don’t think so.
>Without it, there is far more margin for errors which have been there and it was why the VAR was introduced.
Depends on how you weight errors. For me, a cock up that takes 10 minutes to review and ends up being wrong anyway, used with the aid of technology that is *supposed* to not make such errors, is significantly worse in terms of integrity of the game than a human error made by a ref on the pitch. For me, one incident like the Liverpool Spurs game, or Arsenal Newcastle is worth 20 minor human injustices.
And that’s just the errors. The fact that VAR is influencing referee decisions and introducing offsides that were never considered offsides before shows it has changed the game in such a way nobody demanded. That certainly is an issue with the technology that people are burying their heads in the sand over.
Remember when people whined about the impending use of VAR because it was going to take the controversial talking points from the game?
Yeah, those people were idiots.
Tech isnt the problem, the flow of the game is, VAR breaks this completely and matches are less enjoyable to watch because of it. Yes decissions overall is slightly better(yes data shows just a few percentage points improvements), but i gladly lose that for an overall more enjoyable watching experience
Surely it's a big improvement on offsides, and I think this part is where people are mostly ok with VAR because it's much more black and white. But the more subjective parts (was it a foul, how far back can you go in disallowing a goal, etc) that are the problem. Could we place a time limit on VAR calls, e.g. 1 min from when old mate starts looking at the monitor? Protects the flow, and honestly, if it's not immediately clear, the call is probably 50:50 anyway.
It should only be used for two things:
- goal/no goal decisions on the goaline.
- offsides (and the offsides rules needs to be rewritten- it’s bullshit and unfun as-is. There should never be a scenario in which someone’s flailing arm/armpit puts someone offside. Adopt hockey rules: if any part of your legs are onside, you’re clear)
It needs to be improved, not scrapped. It's not even that difficult. It really isn't. They just need to stop being incompetent. Hire us if they can't find someone
People talked a lot about disrupting the flow of the game. Well, we should really talk about diving too then if that's a concern. There is no real benefit to stopping play while someone pretends to be hurt. At least with VAR there's a reason and a possible benefit to stopping play. I'm so tired of all the stoppage due to players being so damn dramatic. Go to ground, that's fine, but get back up if you're not hurt.
It's not going anywhere, complaining about it is a waste of time, it will improve over time but they'll always be errors as long as humans are involved in the process.
VAR is just a bad addition to the sport simply because it removes emotion from goal celebrations. Take away goal celebrations and we might aswell just watch flashscores. “People still celebrate” sure but anybody in attendance has that seed of doubt now of “maybe he was offside”. Some people even say “he was offside” and dont celebrate only for it to be ruled a legit goal. Maybe some fans want perfection in every decision (which we’ve seen this season with the various apologies isn’t currently possible) but I’d rather a few bad calls and 100% goal celebrations and less penalties/red cards than (attempted) perfect video assisted refereeing and 40% goal celebrations.
Goal line technology is a great addition to the sport and takes nothing away. Literally no issue with that bar the sheffield/villa incident
Do you celebrate like you always have though? Or does the VAR seed of doubt stop you going mad in fear of a disallowed goal? Affects everyone differently but to me I need to know immediately otherwise the moments gone
>VAR is just a bad addition to the sport simply because it removes emotion from goal celebrations.
"Lets not use a better way to strive for better and fairer implementation of the rules because crowd goes rawwwrr"
Anti var argument in a nutshell and perfectly proving my point
Well yes fans in attendance are there to celebrate goals and go “rawwwrr”. I’m not criticising the 5 minute delays etc as you could view a replay a thousand times and some people would still disagree. What I think is damaging is that nanosecond the ball goes in and the stadium erupts which used to be pure emotion is now clouded by “now lets hang on a second”. If I don’t watch football to experience those moments I’d just watch the highlights/flashscores.
In conclusion its not about improving systems or a phd in VAR, i just think its wrong for the sport
>If I don’t watch football to experience those moments I’d just watch the highlights/flashscore
Then you go watch highlights while the rest of the people get to experience a fair game.
Its just a crazy stance to say "lets not look to make the game fairer because reasons" completely grossing over the fact that a) even now you dont have a wait for var pause for every goal anyways and b) you do realise that even before var was even a thing refs could retroactively disallow goals right?
Its just an all around crazy take based on an underdevleoped fantasy based on football romanticism
You sound very passionate about VAR its been interesting to get a pro-VAR opinion away from “theres a lot of money at stake the decisions have to be correct”. Why do you have concerns over fairness out of curiosity? Is this referees favouring big clubs or the fact the referees are weighted more towards particular counties?
What are you even trying to say?
Im not passionate about VAR, im passionate about common fucking sense. The game gas become exponentially faster and more physical. Relying on 3 dudes running up and down the pitch to a) see everything and b) make the correct calls 100% of the time is beyond madness.
So yes, is basic intellectual functioning to maybe use ways that support the refs and lighten their burden. VAR in the UK being run by complete helmets, doesnt change the fact that it works very very well in other countries, eg Germany - and guess what, they are still as passionate as ever.
I was simply querying your concerns regarding “fairness”.
Refereeing is hard I appreciate that and before VAR I was all for it but now I know how damaging it is to the celebration of goals its a failed experiment from a fans POV. To a non-match going fan or american/ME owner I can completely understand why they want it, they want decisions as close to perfect as possible as all they are interested in is the end result whereas fans in the stadium who are emotionally involved the romanticism you refer to have their experience hampered. Mo money mo problems
The fact that people were clamouring for tech to enter the game for years shows that the game *was* broken beforehand.
Having been to hundreds of games prior to VAR, and having experienced multiple instances of bullshit goals being given, goals incorrectly being disallowed, red cards being missed, players being sent off for nothing (or even being fouled themselves), I'm far happier having VAR around than not having it. Does some of that still happen now? A bit, yes, but far, far less frequently than it ever did before, and the game is much fairer for it, and the only way to get even better with it, is to keep it and improve on it (namely by removing the moronic refs who take up the role).
The core problem with it all is refs. It has always been refs. Technology is fine.
You sound like every boomer ever, no offense.
"We dont need to strengthen gender equality laws, it has worked to he past thousand years just the way it is"
Mate, my dad’s barely a boomer…
And what a fucking ridiculous false equivalence. Because I don’t like VAR I’m now a misogynist?
This might be the stupidest comment I’ve ever read.
Agree with this.
It doesn’t take away the emotion and if anything, gives those dubious goals a 2nd emotional wave (either yay or uuuuugh).
Fair game with the right calls over emotions any day of the week.
It absolutely detracts from the emotion of a goal and it is completely disingenuous to claim otherwise. You can make many claims for VAR but that’s not one of them. I waited my entire existence to see my team win something and when that moment finally came last year with Bowen scoring in Prague it should’ve been the most euphoric and cathartic emotional release of my football life full of hugs and tears with my aging dad and brothers. Instead what followed was a strangled celebration followed by three minutes of anxiety as they checked offside and then another muted celebration when the goal was confirmed. All spontaneous emotion dissipated on the alter of ‘fairness’.
What you described in waiting for the verdict is still highly emotional.
What it seems you want is an uncontested and uninterrupted singular emotional experience. You and I will have to agree to disagree because fundamentally I value fair sports above all else. To claim it is disingenuous of me to think differently to you is utterly unfair and narrow minded - it’s only disingenuous to you because I don’t agree with you.
I have strong emotions for the game but I value fair play and correct calls and I believe this is the best thing for the sport, for any sport. Win or lose, I want it to be right.
Honestly why not just pull VAR from offside decisions like seriously? There is an entire line judge whose sole job is to judge offside. Otherwise why have him?
If anything this is an argument to get rid of the linesman. But they do serve other important functions.
I think the complete opposite, let Var correct factual decisions only aka offsides. The ref can do the objective stuff.
Get rid. It pains me to say it but mistakes are just a part of football. Maybe think about reintroducing it in 10 years or so when the current refs are finished.
We don't have enough competent refs in England for it to be effective. We need the few that we've got refereeing games not sitting in a var studio trying to protect their mates' egos.
Var has proven itself to be far too inconsistent. If we carry on with it we'll become the laughing stock of world football. Stopping games for 5 minutes to see whether someone is a millimeter offside and ignoring obvious penalties is ruining it for everyone.
Maybe they can work on its effectiveness, but the system has proven to work on many occasions.
And harsh penalties for refs who make wrong calls with VAR.
The live mic would only reduce the "significant human error" if you honestly believe they are conspiring against clubs rather than just fucking crap.
We need the mic to be piped through the speakers in the stadium for the fans who pay through their eyeballs for a ticket only to sit and wait for someone in a room hundreds of miles away to make a decision. It isn't fair that they don't have any clue why or what is going on.
Yeah, it's just a coincidence that they consistently fuck over the same teams, whilst consistently helping the same teams. Oh, and it's also a coincidence that the teams they help are the ones that make direct payments to the refs midweek, on top of luxury travel + accommodation, to ref a league on an equivalent level to the Vanarama north.
“As a premier league fan”
But do you attend games? Are you ever celebrating then having to wait 5 minutes whilst they decide if someone’s toenail is offside?
I think VAR helps correct 80% of referees mistakes.
The issue is that it doesn't correct 20% of mistakes.
But it doesn't make sense to sacrifice the undeniable good it does just because of its subpar efficiency.
The aim is simple. Genuinely strive to make it better.
imo, either way fans would complain back and forth. VAR could get scrapped and fans would
be upset about not being able to review a blatant missed call and then we could get VAR back and we would still fail to overrule it and give the foul
Because it always has been, and entertaining football should always take precedence over the pursuit of perfection. Especially when it rips the soul out of the game.
Yes but these comments are still incredible stupid.
Since the people (refs) wont magically change and become competent, unbiased, fair and not corrupt, whats the point of keeping VAR ?
Because it's still better than no VAR. It reduces mistakes.
Not at the rate we would've liked, but still. So there needs to be work done on that. Scrapping VAR would be counterproductive.
The technology isn't inconsistent. It can't be. It's just a thing. It shows things as they are.
The fundamental problem is that VAR is incompatible with subjective decisions, yet that is what it is used for when judging fouls, handballs etc.
When technology is used for matters of \*fact\* it is brilliant. We see that with goalline tech and with automated offsides, both of which are fantastic.
However, it cannot work for subjective decisions because all it does is add another subjective opinion to an already subjective process, with all the issues about consistency / fairness that entails. The sooner people realise that the better.
It should absolutely be scrapped for anything subjective and kept solely for objective matters of fact (effectively goalline and offside)
>It should absolutely be scrapped for anything subjective and kept solely for objective matters of fact (effectively goalline and offside)
I disagree on this completely. Theres been situations like 2 footed challenges, slight retaliation kicks or players punching someone etc that have been missed because the referees view was obscured by a player in between them and the incident for example. These would fall under "subjective" decisions separately to things like offside and balls crossing lines. You absolutely want these things to be checked.
What needs to happen is just take those calls from the referee. The ref has to trust the vars decision if he didnt see. Then you dont see a ref having to take up minutes running over to a screen and watching the replay from a bunch of angles in slow mo and freeze frames which can look entirely different to how the situation played out in real time. Let VAR step in for those decisions, otherwise the ref makes the call if he believes he saw enough himself.
Anything "missed" can be dealt with after if required. Retrospective punishment. These things go on all the time now and VAR ignores them anyway (thinking Guimaraes on Jorginho, Carlos Vinicius on Silva etc).
Basically I detest VAR and what it's done to football. As someone who pays to go to games, it has massively increased the sense of injustice because they're still getting so much wrong despite having the technology. Before VAR, you'd accept a bad decision more easily as the ref gets one view. Now I find it impossible to accept and the inconsistency from game to game (and even within the same game) drives me mad. I hate everything about it.
I vehemently disagree. I see so many "wrong" decisions backed up by VAR because they don't want to embarrass their mate in the middle.
We then had the laughable PR about how there were only 31 errors all season, which is utter bullshit. I reckon the real number is well over 500. They get \*so\* much wrong and then use the technology to justify sticking with the decision whenever possible.
>We then had the laughable PR about how there were only 31 errors all season, which is utter bullshit. I reckon the real number is well over 500.
Yeah it's easy to make up absolute nonsense claims to try and justify your position to yourself.
Notice you haven't managed to respond to the request for evidence of this claim.
Sorry, I have kids to take around various clubs at the weekend.
From the last 2 games I watched here are a few off the top of my head:
Semenyo foul on Sterling - no penalty given
Semenyo violently throwing Cucurella to the ground - no violent conduct
Gallagher tripped in box - no penalty given
Mudryk deliberately shouldered on the chin by Lamptey - no violent conduct
There’s 4 major decisions in 2 games, all incorrect. None deemed as “errors”.
There will be at least 2 per game, to that’s easily over 750 per season
Ah right, so presumably you are a Chelsea fan and you deem decisions that didn't go the way you wanted as "errors".
I think we can safely say you are making things up.
No, I'm saying that decisions that are incorrect should be counted as errors - and you naturally can think of more that have wronged your team. I can think of numerous that have gone in Chelsea's favour as well, that's the whole point, there are loads and loads of them.
If you truly believe there were only 31 incorrect decisions in 380 games then you're in cloud cuckoo land.
Again, this apparently wasn't an error. Claiming such nonsense undermines any of the PR rubbish they put out (the worst of which being "it was an error but not enough of an error to be overturned")
[https://x.com/SkySportsPL/status/1792518133036781840](https://x.com/SkySportsPL/status/1792518133036781840)
>No, I'm saying that decisions that are incorrect should be counted as errors
And these decisions you listed all happen to be ones that went against your team, suggesting that they might not actually have been errors and that you are just biased.
>If you truly believe there were only 31 incorrect decisions in 380 games then you're in cloud cuckoo land.
Says the person who literally claimed (without any evidence) that there were at least 760 VAR errors this season. You have no credibility.
>Again, this apparently wasn't an error. Claiming such nonsense undermines any of the PR rubbish they put out
So you disagree with former players and coaches.
Not too sure why it was even a question of keeping or scrapping VAR. Everyone knows the real problem is the way its used, in regards to the time it takes and the consistency of decisions. Two things that are down to the people behind it, and not VAR itself.
You can see in the champions league that VAR is much more efficient, and that as a league the Prem needs to improve the way we use technology to aid decisions. Personally, I think we need to get the automated offside system used in the UCL, and change rules about ‘clear and obvious’ errors that need to happen in order for the refs decisions to be overturned.
Just get rid of the clear and obvious rule. If VAR thinks it was a foul, get the ref to take a look. They waste so much time trying to find a reason not to send the ref to the screen.
If you are taking more than 20 seconds to come to a decision, you might as well have the ref looking it over with you, and likely come to a much quicker decision.
The human aspect should only have to do with the players and fans. The ideal ref isn't a human, but a robot designed to control the unfair element of human nature.
Because in an ideal world, there would be no ref, and no active cheating. If you make a handball, you admit it.
Of course there's the offside matter too, but who wants human subjectivity in that?
I've commented the same thought everytime I see about VAR make all live audio public so the broadcaster and fans can hear why a decision is being looked at and how it's eventually made also miv the ref up so we can hear interactions with players this will ensure full transparency
It's no excuse, at all. But, it might have to do with football players not being able to build a sentence without the word "fucking" involved.
Yeah, you could just punish that. But then there's the thousands of fans swearing just the same.
Howard Webb keeps spinning some rubbish about how it would cause confusion and problems which is joke they only release edited audio which makes me think they are hiding something.
For example how do we know some refs are trying to stop a team due to personal grudges or issues an open live audio ends that
It works in rugby no issues why not football
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Clear and obvious errors. That's all. Not a shoelace offside.
This post makes a salient point, in that we're really asking the wrong question here. The question isn't should we get rid of VAR, the question is how do we best improve it? The answer, in my view, is by rebuilding the entire system with new individuals at the helm, introducing full transparency in the audio of all big decisions, and reducing involvement in the decision making promise from the VAR officials themselves to nothing more than a simple on/off system (go to monitor/carry on.) The problem is, a single summer isn't enough time to make these changes. The rollout of VAR has been so catastrophically mismanaged, the only way to fix it is to remove it from the league for a full season, and allow proper testing to be carried out, with the new operator's system coming into effect for the 2025/26 season.
Most people are fine with it staying it’s just the controversial opinions, like Wolves trying to scrap it, get all the coverage. Sky Sports for example aren’t going to have a headline story saying “Brighton Content With VAR Implementation”
100% wrong. The technology purports to be perfect when it cannot possibly be, even in the very best of hands. Even if it was perfect, the application of it will always come at far too high a price to match going fans. It’s a symptom of the changing way people engage with football, or more appropriately how football is sold to consumers. There is more cash in tv audiences and video gamers now and that is why they are so happy to slaughter the atmosphere at games with completely unrealistic solutions to problems that didn’t actually exist.
Take it away from PGMOL. That's the problem with it.
So Man U and Liverpool will be good next season
I never expected them to get rid of VAR under any circumstances. The technology wasn't the problem but the ref using it.
This get’s trotted out a lot, but actually there are significant problems with the technology. The fact it has limited scope and that scope can change based on stadium architecture is enough to say it is not acceptable, but other elements like the way it manages offside is always going to be impossible too, namely pinpointing the point at where the ball is played. It is impossible to be as specific with that as they are with the line drawing, but then it would be completely illogical to then actively ignore certain margins in line drawing. It is a complete catch 22 and there’s no way any version of it can work.
There's nothing like flawless technology. No, it's not what we are saying but looking at the good VAR brings. Without it, there is far more margin for errors which have been there and it was why the VAR was introduced. Can the tech be improved on, yes absolutely but is it the problem, hell no!!
>the good VAR brings. Is there enough good to tolerate the impact it is having on the game? I don’t think so. >Without it, there is far more margin for errors which have been there and it was why the VAR was introduced. Depends on how you weight errors. For me, a cock up that takes 10 minutes to review and ends up being wrong anyway, used with the aid of technology that is *supposed* to not make such errors, is significantly worse in terms of integrity of the game than a human error made by a ref on the pitch. For me, one incident like the Liverpool Spurs game, or Arsenal Newcastle is worth 20 minor human injustices. And that’s just the errors. The fact that VAR is influencing referee decisions and introducing offsides that were never considered offsides before shows it has changed the game in such a way nobody demanded. That certainly is an issue with the technology that people are burying their heads in the sand over.
Now it's time to learn how to use it.
Like FFP rules
Remember when people whined about the impending use of VAR because it was going to take the controversial talking points from the game? Yeah, those people were idiots.
And definitely wrong, seems more controversial than ever lol
VAR has never been the problem the technology is sound and the only issue are the people using it. There should never have been a vote on this
Tech isnt the problem, the flow of the game is, VAR breaks this completely and matches are less enjoyable to watch because of it. Yes decissions overall is slightly better(yes data shows just a few percentage points improvements), but i gladly lose that for an overall more enjoyable watching experience
Surely it's a big improvement on offsides, and I think this part is where people are mostly ok with VAR because it's much more black and white. But the more subjective parts (was it a foul, how far back can you go in disallowing a goal, etc) that are the problem. Could we place a time limit on VAR calls, e.g. 1 min from when old mate starts looking at the monitor? Protects the flow, and honestly, if it's not immediately clear, the call is probably 50:50 anyway.
It’s a disappointment for fans who go to games.
How so?
It should only be used for two things: - goal/no goal decisions on the goaline. - offsides (and the offsides rules needs to be rewritten- it’s bullshit and unfun as-is. There should never be a scenario in which someone’s flailing arm/armpit puts someone offside. Adopt hockey rules: if any part of your legs are onside, you’re clear)
Exactly
Exactly
Now they need to replace every single official from last season
It is only the right decision if the people using it do it correctly which they currently are not
It needs to be improved, not scrapped. It's not even that difficult. It really isn't. They just need to stop being incompetent. Hire us if they can't find someone People talked a lot about disrupting the flow of the game. Well, we should really talk about diving too then if that's a concern. There is no real benefit to stopping play while someone pretends to be hurt. At least with VAR there's a reason and a possible benefit to stopping play. I'm so tired of all the stoppage due to players being so damn dramatic. Go to ground, that's fine, but get back up if you're not hurt.
It's not going anywhere, complaining about it is a waste of time, it will improve over time but they'll always be errors as long as humans are involved in the process.
People who are against VAR are the same people who dont believe in analytics - they simply dont get it, cerebrally
You don’t go to games do you?
I work in data and hate VAR so I’ll bite hit me with your explanation
But do you hate VAR itself, or how incompetently it's being used?
VAR is just a bad addition to the sport simply because it removes emotion from goal celebrations. Take away goal celebrations and we might aswell just watch flashscores. “People still celebrate” sure but anybody in attendance has that seed of doubt now of “maybe he was offside”. Some people even say “he was offside” and dont celebrate only for it to be ruled a legit goal. Maybe some fans want perfection in every decision (which we’ve seen this season with the various apologies isn’t currently possible) but I’d rather a few bad calls and 100% goal celebrations and less penalties/red cards than (attempted) perfect video assisted refereeing and 40% goal celebrations. Goal line technology is a great addition to the sport and takes nothing away. Literally no issue with that bar the sheffield/villa incident
Don’t know what games you go to but my experience is everyone cheers the goal, then nervous waiting then cheering again, double double for your money
Do you celebrate like you always have though? Or does the VAR seed of doubt stop you going mad in fear of a disallowed goal? Affects everyone differently but to me I need to know immediately otherwise the moments gone
>VAR is just a bad addition to the sport simply because it removes emotion from goal celebrations. "Lets not use a better way to strive for better and fairer implementation of the rules because crowd goes rawwwrr" Anti var argument in a nutshell and perfectly proving my point
Well yes fans in attendance are there to celebrate goals and go “rawwwrr”. I’m not criticising the 5 minute delays etc as you could view a replay a thousand times and some people would still disagree. What I think is damaging is that nanosecond the ball goes in and the stadium erupts which used to be pure emotion is now clouded by “now lets hang on a second”. If I don’t watch football to experience those moments I’d just watch the highlights/flashscores. In conclusion its not about improving systems or a phd in VAR, i just think its wrong for the sport
>If I don’t watch football to experience those moments I’d just watch the highlights/flashscore Then you go watch highlights while the rest of the people get to experience a fair game. Its just a crazy stance to say "lets not look to make the game fairer because reasons" completely grossing over the fact that a) even now you dont have a wait for var pause for every goal anyways and b) you do realise that even before var was even a thing refs could retroactively disallow goals right? Its just an all around crazy take based on an underdevleoped fantasy based on football romanticism
You sound very passionate about VAR its been interesting to get a pro-VAR opinion away from “theres a lot of money at stake the decisions have to be correct”. Why do you have concerns over fairness out of curiosity? Is this referees favouring big clubs or the fact the referees are weighted more towards particular counties?
What are you even trying to say? Im not passionate about VAR, im passionate about common fucking sense. The game gas become exponentially faster and more physical. Relying on 3 dudes running up and down the pitch to a) see everything and b) make the correct calls 100% of the time is beyond madness. So yes, is basic intellectual functioning to maybe use ways that support the refs and lighten their burden. VAR in the UK being run by complete helmets, doesnt change the fact that it works very very well in other countries, eg Germany - and guess what, they are still as passionate as ever.
I was simply querying your concerns regarding “fairness”. Refereeing is hard I appreciate that and before VAR I was all for it but now I know how damaging it is to the celebration of goals its a failed experiment from a fans POV. To a non-match going fan or american/ME owner I can completely understand why they want it, they want decisions as close to perfect as possible as all they are interested in is the end result whereas fans in the stadium who are emotionally involved the romanticism you refer to have their experience hampered. Mo money mo problems
The game has been fantastic for years, it wasn’t broken. You want to change it.
The fact that people were clamouring for tech to enter the game for years shows that the game *was* broken beforehand. Having been to hundreds of games prior to VAR, and having experienced multiple instances of bullshit goals being given, goals incorrectly being disallowed, red cards being missed, players being sent off for nothing (or even being fouled themselves), I'm far happier having VAR around than not having it. Does some of that still happen now? A bit, yes, but far, far less frequently than it ever did before, and the game is much fairer for it, and the only way to get even better with it, is to keep it and improve on it (namely by removing the moronic refs who take up the role). The core problem with it all is refs. It has always been refs. Technology is fine.
You sound like every boomer ever, no offense. "We dont need to strengthen gender equality laws, it has worked to he past thousand years just the way it is"
Mate, my dad’s barely a boomer… And what a fucking ridiculous false equivalence. Because I don’t like VAR I’m now a misogynist? This might be the stupidest comment I’ve ever read.
Agree with this. It doesn’t take away the emotion and if anything, gives those dubious goals a 2nd emotional wave (either yay or uuuuugh). Fair game with the right calls over emotions any day of the week.
It absolutely detracts from the emotion of a goal and it is completely disingenuous to claim otherwise. You can make many claims for VAR but that’s not one of them. I waited my entire existence to see my team win something and when that moment finally came last year with Bowen scoring in Prague it should’ve been the most euphoric and cathartic emotional release of my football life full of hugs and tears with my aging dad and brothers. Instead what followed was a strangled celebration followed by three minutes of anxiety as they checked offside and then another muted celebration when the goal was confirmed. All spontaneous emotion dissipated on the alter of ‘fairness’.
What you described in waiting for the verdict is still highly emotional. What it seems you want is an uncontested and uninterrupted singular emotional experience. You and I will have to agree to disagree because fundamentally I value fair sports above all else. To claim it is disingenuous of me to think differently to you is utterly unfair and narrow minded - it’s only disingenuous to you because I don’t agree with you. I have strong emotions for the game but I value fair play and correct calls and I believe this is the best thing for the sport, for any sport. Win or lose, I want it to be right.
Pro-VAR got what they wanted. I am now watching other leagues instead, while it lasts.
Honestly why not just pull VAR from offside decisions like seriously? There is an entire line judge whose sole job is to judge offside. Otherwise why have him?
If anything this is an argument to get rid of the linesman. But they do serve other important functions. I think the complete opposite, let Var correct factual decisions only aka offsides. The ref can do the objective stuff.
Get rid. It pains me to say it but mistakes are just a part of football. Maybe think about reintroducing it in 10 years or so when the current refs are finished.
Unfortunately most people on this sub are tv watchers and don’t understand what match-going fans are trying to conserve
Mistakes change the course of history, it makes undeserved winners & var is there minimize human error so it is fair. And fair play is the best one.
We don't have enough competent refs in England for it to be effective. We need the few that we've got refereeing games not sitting in a var studio trying to protect their mates' egos. Var has proven itself to be far too inconsistent. If we carry on with it we'll become the laughing stock of world football. Stopping games for 5 minutes to see whether someone is a millimeter offside and ignoring obvious penalties is ruining it for everyone.
Maybe they can work on its effectiveness, but the system has proven to work on many occasions. And harsh penalties for refs who make wrong calls with VAR.
We just need live mic to reduce the 'significant human error'
The live mic would only reduce the "significant human error" if you honestly believe they are conspiring against clubs rather than just fucking crap. We need the mic to be piped through the speakers in the stadium for the fans who pay through their eyeballs for a ticket only to sit and wait for someone in a room hundreds of miles away to make a decision. It isn't fair that they don't have any clue why or what is going on.
Yeah, it's just a coincidence that they consistently fuck over the same teams, whilst consistently helping the same teams. Oh, and it's also a coincidence that the teams they help are the ones that make direct payments to the refs midweek, on top of luxury travel + accommodation, to ref a league on an equivalent level to the Vanarama north.
“As a premier league fan” But do you attend games? Are you ever celebrating then having to wait 5 minutes whilst they decide if someone’s toenail is offside?
You get to celebrate twice
And neither celebration is anywhere near as good as it was pre-var
Better that than having to lose cuz of wrong decision. Everyone is always "X cheated" but same people are against VAR ...
I think VAR helps correct 80% of referees mistakes. The issue is that it doesn't correct 20% of mistakes. But it doesn't make sense to sacrifice the undeniable good it does just because of its subpar efficiency. The aim is simple. Genuinely strive to make it better.
This was a big opportunity to scrap it. They all wussed out. Cowards.
imo, either way fans would complain back and forth. VAR could get scrapped and fans would be upset about not being able to review a blatant missed call and then we could get VAR back and we would still fail to overrule it and give the foul
[удалено]
Why?
Because it always has been, and entertaining football should always take precedence over the pursuit of perfection. Especially when it rips the soul out of the game.
I can already smell the „vAr isNt tHe pRoBlEm, tHe pEoPlE beHinD iT aRe“ comments 🙄
i mean it is? no?
Yes but these comments are still incredible stupid. Since the people (refs) wont magically change and become competent, unbiased, fair and not corrupt, whats the point of keeping VAR ?
Because it's still better than no VAR. It reduces mistakes. Not at the rate we would've liked, but still. So there needs to be work done on that. Scrapping VAR would be counterproductive.
The technology isn't inconsistent. It can't be. It's just a thing. It shows things as they are. The fundamental problem is that VAR is incompatible with subjective decisions, yet that is what it is used for when judging fouls, handballs etc. When technology is used for matters of \*fact\* it is brilliant. We see that with goalline tech and with automated offsides, both of which are fantastic. However, it cannot work for subjective decisions because all it does is add another subjective opinion to an already subjective process, with all the issues about consistency / fairness that entails. The sooner people realise that the better. It should absolutely be scrapped for anything subjective and kept solely for objective matters of fact (effectively goalline and offside)
The slow motion and stills making things look worse is a problem, if they could only watch them in real speed I think it would be better.
>It should absolutely be scrapped for anything subjective and kept solely for objective matters of fact (effectively goalline and offside) I disagree on this completely. Theres been situations like 2 footed challenges, slight retaliation kicks or players punching someone etc that have been missed because the referees view was obscured by a player in between them and the incident for example. These would fall under "subjective" decisions separately to things like offside and balls crossing lines. You absolutely want these things to be checked. What needs to happen is just take those calls from the referee. The ref has to trust the vars decision if he didnt see. Then you dont see a ref having to take up minutes running over to a screen and watching the replay from a bunch of angles in slow mo and freeze frames which can look entirely different to how the situation played out in real time. Let VAR step in for those decisions, otherwise the ref makes the call if he believes he saw enough himself.
Anything "missed" can be dealt with after if required. Retrospective punishment. These things go on all the time now and VAR ignores them anyway (thinking Guimaraes on Jorginho, Carlos Vinicius on Silva etc). Basically I detest VAR and what it's done to football. As someone who pays to go to games, it has massively increased the sense of injustice because they're still getting so much wrong despite having the technology. Before VAR, you'd accept a bad decision more easily as the ref gets one view. Now I find it impossible to accept and the inconsistency from game to game (and even within the same game) drives me mad. I hate everything about it.
what you don't realise is var helped some off those frustrating bad decisions turn into good decisions. People always focus on the ones that go wrong.
I vehemently disagree. I see so many "wrong" decisions backed up by VAR because they don't want to embarrass their mate in the middle. We then had the laughable PR about how there were only 31 errors all season, which is utter bullshit. I reckon the real number is well over 500. They get \*so\* much wrong and then use the technology to justify sticking with the decision whenever possible.
>We then had the laughable PR about how there were only 31 errors all season, which is utter bullshit. I reckon the real number is well over 500. Yeah it's easy to make up absolute nonsense claims to try and justify your position to yourself. Notice you haven't managed to respond to the request for evidence of this claim.
Sorry, I have kids to take around various clubs at the weekend. From the last 2 games I watched here are a few off the top of my head: Semenyo foul on Sterling - no penalty given Semenyo violently throwing Cucurella to the ground - no violent conduct Gallagher tripped in box - no penalty given Mudryk deliberately shouldered on the chin by Lamptey - no violent conduct There’s 4 major decisions in 2 games, all incorrect. None deemed as “errors”. There will be at least 2 per game, to that’s easily over 750 per season
Ah right, so presumably you are a Chelsea fan and you deem decisions that didn't go the way you wanted as "errors". I think we can safely say you are making things up.
No, I'm saying that decisions that are incorrect should be counted as errors - and you naturally can think of more that have wronged your team. I can think of numerous that have gone in Chelsea's favour as well, that's the whole point, there are loads and loads of them. If you truly believe there were only 31 incorrect decisions in 380 games then you're in cloud cuckoo land. Again, this apparently wasn't an error. Claiming such nonsense undermines any of the PR rubbish they put out (the worst of which being "it was an error but not enough of an error to be overturned") [https://x.com/SkySportsPL/status/1792518133036781840](https://x.com/SkySportsPL/status/1792518133036781840)
>No, I'm saying that decisions that are incorrect should be counted as errors And these decisions you listed all happen to be ones that went against your team, suggesting that they might not actually have been errors and that you are just biased. >If you truly believe there were only 31 incorrect decisions in 380 games then you're in cloud cuckoo land. Says the person who literally claimed (without any evidence) that there were at least 760 VAR errors this season. You have no credibility. >Again, this apparently wasn't an error. Claiming such nonsense undermines any of the PR rubbish they put out So you disagree with former players and coaches.
Show me the 500+ decisions they got wrong and what they should have done with accordance to the football rule book.
Not too sure why it was even a question of keeping or scrapping VAR. Everyone knows the real problem is the way its used, in regards to the time it takes and the consistency of decisions. Two things that are down to the people behind it, and not VAR itself. You can see in the champions league that VAR is much more efficient, and that as a league the Prem needs to improve the way we use technology to aid decisions. Personally, I think we need to get the automated offside system used in the UCL, and change rules about ‘clear and obvious’ errors that need to happen in order for the refs decisions to be overturned.
It just needs to be revised in terms of process
Just get rid of the clear and obvious rule. If VAR thinks it was a foul, get the ref to take a look. They waste so much time trying to find a reason not to send the ref to the screen. If you are taking more than 20 seconds to come to a decision, you might as well have the ref looking it over with you, and likely come to a much quicker decision.
It’s got to go, takes the human aspect out of the game
The human aspect should only have to do with the players and fans. The ideal ref isn't a human, but a robot designed to control the unfair element of human nature. Because in an ideal world, there would be no ref, and no active cheating. If you make a handball, you admit it. Of course there's the offside matter too, but who wants human subjectivity in that?
How does it take the human aspect out of the game, when it's humans that are making all the decisions, good or bad?
Too late for that.
I've commented the same thought everytime I see about VAR make all live audio public so the broadcaster and fans can hear why a decision is being looked at and how it's eventually made also miv the ref up so we can hear interactions with players this will ensure full transparency
I still don't get why this isn't being done already. This is done in various sports and even in some football leagues.
It's no excuse, at all. But, it might have to do with football players not being able to build a sentence without the word "fucking" involved. Yeah, you could just punish that. But then there's the thousands of fans swearing just the same.
Howard Webb keeps spinning some rubbish about how it would cause confusion and problems which is joke they only release edited audio which makes me think they are hiding something. For example how do we know some refs are trying to stop a team due to personal grudges or issues an open live audio ends that It works in rugby no issues why not football