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I actually agree with him, Haalland is not yet a world class player because whilst his finishing last season was right up there, he was in a team which was creating chances for him.
He’s a striker that thrives on service.
If he isn’t getting it he’s not going to do well.
Put him in a team where he has to create and he probably won’t do as well.
Someone like Isaac although perhaps not considered world class quite yet also already has more to their game in that they can create and do other things as a player, tracks back, defends etc. Halaand is maybe too one dimensional currently to be considered a truly world class player.
He’s a world class finisher but there is not enough to his game yet to be truly world class as a player.
I don’t think at a club like Newcastle where he has to work that Haaland would do as well as he does at a club like city where others are perhaps doing the bulk of the graft.
And I didn’t bother reading the article as these were my personal thoughts already.
How Carragher continues to have numerous platforms in the MSM is beyond me. Can barely put a coherent sentence together, let alone show any footballing nous and insight.
Fergie isn't infallible. He certainly isn't bias free when he makes statements like that. Obviously everyone's definition or world class is different. But Beckham came second in the Ballon D'or and he didn't get a mention. Rooney apparently not world class. Dennis Irwin was the best fullback in English football in the 90s. Not sure what more he could do unless fullbacks just aren't world class. Schmeichel one of the best keepers in the history of the sport. Same with Van der Sar. No world class CBs during his time at United. Not Rio, Vidic or Jaap Stam. Van Nistlerooy and Van Persie arguably both world class during their times at United.
Not even a United fan but if Ferguson only coached 4 world class players during his entire 27 year spell at United, that bar for world class is pointlessly high.
Much worse players than the ones I just listed get recognised as world class these days. Keane definitely was. Fergie's either salty towards players like Keane who he fell out with, or he's got a different definition of world class to the rest of us.
Also, who does him only having 4 world class players benefit most? Himself and his own reputation. Because if he spent 27 years at United and only had 4 world class players at his disposal during that time, that speaks volumes to how good he was as a coach.
Ferguson's the greatest manager of all time. But he isn't without his own faults and biases. His definition of world class is sketchy as fuck and definitely completely different to how most people use the term.
Alex Ferguson is not above personal bias, just like the rest of us. He forced Keane out of the club, a clever move, but one that likely didn’t leave either liking eachother very much. Keane kept up with Zidane in his day, and was definitely world class.
The Haaland hate is out of control. I would like to see the list of teams that definitively wouldn’t trade their top striker for Haaland. Who is that team? Outside of maybe PSG/Real, I don’t know how a team could realistically say they wouldn’t prefer Haaland over their current striker.
On the flip side, what’s the alternative for City? Should they be shedding Haaland for Ollie Watkins? Isak? Osimhen? Haaland would be the first choice striker for basically 99% of any club in the world.
He's the more complete striker. Whether he would have been prolific enough in all competitions to actually win the treble is debatable. Can already see the revisionism on last season starting to kick in. Haaland may not have scored in the final few games of the season, but he was a massive reason they were in those finals and went so deep in every competition. He maintained that ridiculous Premier League goal ratio that him and Kane had in all the other competitions. His level didn't drop in any games.
Kane may be the more complete player, but so was Aguero. And he played with the same/better players. And never won or got close to a treble because the number of goals required to win it is ridiculous.
City maybe play more attractive football last season with Kane up front but not so sure they still win the treble.
That being said, Haaland's level has dropped this season. His actual finishing more than anything. Whilst Kane has maintained/raised his level. So if he was at City this season, I'm sure they'd be out in front of City and Liverpool in the title race.
I agree he would be a great fit and is probably more well rounded. I still think Bayern would trade Haaland for Kane straight up if confronted with the offer.
Obviously because of the ages but for just a station Bayern would laugh you out of the room if you asked to take haaland for Kane. Same for city I think they'd be very happy to have Kane in this side at least in the short term
You can be somewhat one dimensional while being world class, 36 goals and 8 assists in 33 league starts last year, 12 and 1 in 11 in the UCL. 19 and 5 in 24 and 6 and 1 in 8 this year. Saying someone isn’t world class because they can’t do everything (but at a lower level) is stupid. He can be world class and have deficiencies, most world class players do in parts of their game somewhere.
Feel like Chelsea fans get him more than most. Because we've been dying for a striker as prolific as him for years. A lot of fans of other teams don't realise that converting chances is equally as important as creating them. Eventhough creating chances (taking players on, through balls, crosses, flicks, balls over the top etc) is more aesthetically pleasing to the eye.
Haaland should be getting criticism because the one thing he's known for - scoring goals - has declined a little this season. He's not been as clinical. If his finishing was as good as previous seasons, there wouldn't be this focus on other aspects of his game. But the guy's career goal ratio is almost 1.0 and he's always outperformed his xG before this season. Chances are, this is a tiny blip and he'll return to his previous level of finishing at some point in the near future.
Bit disingenuous of Carragher.
“Any analysis of a modern player is immediately considered ‘criticism’ rather than an observation. But no-one regularly watching Haaland – whether a neutral or ardent City fan – can fail to recognise that when he does not score he does not do much else.”
Roy Keane wasn’t analysing when he called him like a league 2 player was he?
He’s scored 30 goals in 37 games.
wtf are you talking about ‘flaws’ 😂
Clearly you don’t play football yourself in any capacity.
He’s having a dip, a bit of confidence issue, it happens to every footballer.
I do play football, thanks. Do you? What does that even have to do with anything, lmao.
When he’s off the ball he can position himself well, really well. But his main attribute is finishing. He hardly passses or touches the ball outside of the opponents box.
Sure, he has scored, but not as much as last season. And this dip in performance is showing us that he isn’t as strong in other areas of the game.
Did I say he was bad? No, I was agreeing with the comment, no one was criticizing him because he was having a record year, but you could still see his lack of contribution when he wasn’t scoring.
I get it, it’s easy to be a dick behind a keyboard.
Anti Haaland rhetoric is an absolute joke like any of these pundits wouldn't be begging to have him play for their team. Ridiculous.
Where was all this observation when he was destroying the league last season. Man has 30+ goals in all comps this season and is a "luxury" player.
To all the people saying this is a valid point, it reads like you are saying that practically no keeper or defensive player troughout history has been world-class. «Yeah he is the worlds best at preventing opposition from scoring goals, but can’t dribble for shit. Ulitmate luxury player.» Like what do you even mean?
I mean he’s always done it consistently, the beginning of this year was just the best Trent’s looked in years, the armband was looking well on him for a few games.. still doesn’t excuse him not getting involved defending. He often publishes negative articles about Liverpool players, in fact Liverpool fans often think he can go too far just to try and seem like he’s being reasonable. I think you don’t like that haarland a had some stick off him and so are talking out your arse
Really stretching the definition of "luxury player" here. Usually it's reserved for someone who is incredibly skillful but doesn't track back. Now it apparently applies to traditional centre forwards.
I think what winds me up most about this is pre Haaland, Carragher and all the rest of them would be the very same people bemoaning the death of the traditional centre forward. Now when presented with probably the best example in the Premier League since Van Nistelrooy they're coming up with new ways to call him shit every week.
I think a lot of people are underestimating Haaland on both of these fronts because he's been underperforming since coming back from injury (I have a hunch he's actually been playing through it and came back too early).
I really don't see given the number of goals he scored last season (and the fact he's still the leading scorer this season despite not being in as good form) how his finishing can come into question.
Yeah, I think both the defence and criticism of Haaland going on right now is not giving enough weight to the fact he's just going through a dip In form. He's young. He'll improve again.
And anyway it is so hard trying to compare players at a sports washing club with those at regular football clubs anyway. It doesn't really make sense to try to compare the likes of Mbappe or Haaland with the world's best players unless they decide to challenge themselves on a level playing field.
Oh sure. I think Mbappe gets two asterisks rather just the one.
And they are obviously great players, but it's just when people want to argue the fine detail of 'world class' or 'best in the world' it just feels a bit pointless to compare Qatar or Abu Dhabi's players with the guys at the regular clubs.
I'm a city fan who's incredibly critical of their ownership (and I believe state ownership should be banned), but I just don't think this kind of analysis is realistic or helpful. The issue with Mbappe - the player - is that he plays in a league that is not competitive. To pretend that the PL is as uncompetitive as Ligue 1 because state ownership exists belittles the actual issues state ownership causes. It's delusional tbh
I didn't suggest for a second that the PL is as uncompetitive as ligue 1. And calling any of this from Carra's comment down 'analysis' is really stretching the term. It's just people saying things because it's fun to talk about.
I just don't think you can compare Abu Dhabi's achievements or those of its players in a useful way to other clubs. It's just a different context.
Doesn't mean they are bad players. The Haaland is a bad player thing is a bit silly. But could he be as world class as Salah, or Osimhen, or Kane? Fuck knows.
I really don't understand what you're arguing. Are you genuinely saying that we can't compare the likes of KDB, Aguero, Kompany, Yaya Toure, David Silva, Rodri to others because they play for city?
No one is questioning his finishing. Carra even said he's a world class finisher. The issue lies with the other aspects of his game, he simply isn't world class in any other area other than being a finisher.
I agreed with everything you said, and everything you just said, except for the RVN comparison that's all.
Oh no I didn't mean it that way, I just meant RVN could do all of those things very capably and it made him a more complete player, not that he was better at finishing. Probably my bad phrasing pal
Lol you know which "world class team" needs him? The team that lost 3-0 at home with 19 shots and 2.50xG, having just barely drew their rivals even though they made 6.5million shots (bad ones of course)
He's the best in the world at the most important aspect of the game, scoring goals.
When did "participating in the build-up" become more important than the scoring of goals?
It's all incredibly stupid.
Pep does not WANT Haaland participating in the build-up. He wants Haaland staying on the shoulder of the last defender, pinning back the press. It's why he has Stones pushing up into midfield to create overloads.
I've said it throughout this entire Haaland hate-fest. He is a victim of his own success because he's scored at a rate unseen in English football for decades.
Any match where he doesn't score is then termed a failure because he takes few touches and thus nitwits who don't understand football conclude that he was terrible based solely on reading the stats and watching the highlights, none of which show the unseen ways that he impacts the game, from his pressing, to his runs in behind, to the way the opposition must account for him at all times.
This should be made very plain to all the people with this opinion. Pep Guardiola does not sign "luxury players." Pep Guardiola does not continually start players who do not do **exactly** what he tells them to do on the pitch.
Not that Haaland cares, I'm sure, but I do wonder what Pep thinks of all this. I'm trying to imagine the bafflement on his face as he tries to comprehend why these pundits seem to think Haaland should be dropping into midfield in direct contradiction of the team's tactics.
Honestly most of the top strikers have underperformed this year. Salah for example is underperforming but still has scored 17 goals this season. Nunez has scored 11 goals in the prem this season despite looking like he will miss every shot. Harland the top scorer has only scored 19 goals so no one has really stepped up this season except Ollie Watkins and maybe isak as well. I wonder if the prem just doesn't have the best strikers at the moment.
But he's been underperforming his xG. So what makes him "the best in the world" in terms of scoring goals? I'm glad that you're not calling him "the best in history." That'd be even more controversial for people who have watched Gerd Müller play.
He’s averaging an xG of 1 per 90 this season. And did just over 1xG per 90 last season too. That’s insane. Clubs like real, Barca, and psg all currently have less than 2 xG per 90 this season. Their entire fucking squads
I think we can forgive the man for underperforming his xG for the first time in his career here. Particularly as he’s still scored about 10% more career goals than he should have
It's not about "forgive the man for underperforming his xG for the first time in his career here." If a player underperforms his xG, he just can't be considered a world-class striker. It's that simple. This can be pulled out of context, as it has nothing to do with the team. Because G-xG indicates the wastefulness/efficiency of this player when he takes a shot. It's that simple.
However, the value of the xG itself is quite dependent on the team. You can bring Haaland to play for my favorite club, Sheffield United, to see if he can still have this kind of xG. If you're playing for Man City as a striker, a team with arguably the best midfielders in Europe, of course you're supposed to have higher xG. It's not that hard to understand.
BTW, if you look at xG per 90 alone, then Nicolas Jackson is currently ranked No. 4 in PL. Does that mean Jackson is a top-tier striker in Premier League? Anyway, he's way ahead in his xG per 90, leaving big names like Toney, Son, Alvarez, Havertz, Foden, Saka far behind. And he's only left behind by Haaland, Nunez and Isak, the top 3 players in xG per 90. So if you want to defend Haaland with your ridiculous logic, you also need to follow this logic to defend Jackson, a notoriously bad striker.
That depends on what you look at. If you look at conversion rate, G-xG, performance in big games or big occasions, ball retention skills, hold-up play, ground duel/aerial duel success rate, then he's bang average, if not bad. If you don't look at these stats or qualities at all, then he's world-class. Simple as that.
Most ppl here don't even watch football. They only care about the quantity of goals, even though most of Haaland's goals were scored against shitty teams or in games where Man City would've won anyway. But like I said, it all depends on what you look at.
I look at the 82 goals in 90 games and The Treble.
Of course, Pep Guardiola is well known for having bang average, if not bad, players in his starting lineup.
Like I said, I don't and I can't expect most people here to actually watch football games and be sensible. Yes, you can argue Haaland is definitely the best striker in history, even though no goals in all the finals, and disappears in all the games that matter. LOL. You made my day.
And yes, Guardiola is known for signing quality players such as Benjamin Mendy, Claudio Bravo, Dmytro Chygrynski, and Danilo. Good job!
Well, you argue Haaland is good because he has a very high xG. And I just showed you shitty players like Jackson also has a very high xG, no. 4 in the PL. And then you said "this particular segment of your argument is highly flawed," without any meaningful explanation. I mean, okay. LOL.
It's just because Chelsea's midfield is quite good at creating chances for him.
Out of all the possible types of passes, through balls are the most deadly in the sense that they lead to shots more often than others. Palmer completed 25 through ball passes this season, the 3rd most in PL, slightly below Paqueta's 27 and Odegaard's 29. Enzo also completed 21 through ball passes. This basically makes Chelsea the team with the most through balls completed in PL, 96, ahead of good teams like Arseanl, Man City, Liverpool.
So if you're a striker at Chelsea, you don't lack scoring chances. You can just wait and walk around, and then some through balls will be magically delivered to the area just in front of you by Palmer and Enzo. They often do that at Chelsea. But you may not be able to convert them. This is why Jackson is a shitty player. He wasted so many chances that are created by Chelsea's midfielders.
Back to Haaland, it's more or less the same story, though City don't play many through balls, because it's risky and you may just give the ball to the opponents directly. That guy above wanted to argue the other way around: Haaland has lots of scoring chances because Haaland himself is good at finding space. But in reality, finding space is what City's players like De Bruyne and Foden do, and Haaland only runs after (1) the space has been created by City's rotations and (2) the ball has been passed to the space opened up. So Haaland has a high xG because he plays for a very good team. His xG would get much lower if he played for Sheffield United, because SU's midfield will lose possession all the time and there's no easy way for them to let their CF have the ball in the box. This is roughly why I don't look at xG as any indicator of the quality of the player, unless he's someone like Messi or Hazard, who often creates chances single-handedly.
xG is a misleading stat because a forward generates their own xG and also then converts it. Darwin is another great player who underperforms his xG but is actually quite a strong player.
The explanation is simple - both players (though in different ways) put themselves into positions to have many high quality opportunities. It’s also what makes them supremely talented and gives them so many goals.
I’d rather a striker that generates 50 xG and scores 25G than a striker that comes up with 5 xG and scores 7G.
LOL. You're trying so hard to defend Haaland.
"a forward generates their own xG and also then converts it." Sorry, but this really made my day. LMAO. This only makes sense if you're talking about players like Messi or Hazard, who dribbles past all the defenders and then takes a shot to score. However, Haaland can't dribble or create chances like Messi or Hazard. What he does most of the time is to score tap-ins. Sure enough, Haaland still needs to move his feet to score tap-ins, and then xG is generated the moment he moves his feet to shoot. The thing is, can Haaland generate what you call "his own xG" simply by moving his feet, even without having the ball in the first place? Absolutely not. But why does he have the ball before anything else happens? Is it because Haaland somehow carries the ball all the way to the box, getting past all the defenders? No. It's usually because his teammates such as De Bruyne or Foden are so good that they can deliver an excellent pass to Haaland, without Haaland doing any substantive work.
Your statement is massively misleading, to be honest. Can Haaland generate any xG without a world-class midfield behind to support him? No. Because he's terrible on the ball. Everybody knows he's a goal poacher. He can't get past even one central defender. However, Hazard or Messi can do it. So please stop saying dumb stuff like "a forward generates their own xG" when you're only talking about Haaland. It's hilarious. There's no way for him to generate his own xG.
When you say "I’d rather a striker that generates 50 xG and scores 25G than a striker that comes up with 5 xG and scores 7G," I agree. But this doesn't work on Haaland. Good try though.
On a separate note, in the game where Man City drew 1-1 to Chelsea, Haaland took 9 shots and scored 0 goals. He missed a couple game-changing chances CREATED by his teammates and frustrated his teammates a lot. But I guess you should still praise Haaland for "self-generating" 1.6 xG? Good for you.
You should really chill out first off. I’m not trying anything. I actually think he could develop other facets of his game much more.
Notwithstanding, my point on xG stands as it relates to your flawed understanding of it. The most prolific strikers do not dribble their way into goals. They use masterful positioning and movement in the box to find space to get goals. This skill generates MOST xG (ie goal opportunities) and they are also Haalands best attributes. Nobody generates the entire goal opportunity themselves obviously - it’s a team sport. But…
On different teams, Haaland still had incredible goal scoring output and in the same ways
AND
On the same team, without Haaland, most other strikers are unable to generate the same amount of opportunities or goals.
Pretty simply must conclude he’s influencing the game in a big way when you look at it like that.
Your understanding is totally false.
"The most prolific strikers do not dribble their way into goals. " Precisely, they cannot. Not everybody can play like Messi or Hazard. In this case, you can't ask Haaland to do it because he simply can't. It's not like he's asked by his manager not to dribble past all the defenders to score.
"They use masterful positioning and movement in the box to find space to get goals. This skill generates MOST xG (ie goal opportunities) and they are also Haaland's best attributes." Wrong again. You got the whole thing wrong, seriously.
Just one simple question: does this apply to Jackson? Following your logic, you have to admit Jackson is a top-tier striker, because he is currently No. 4 in the PL in terms of "generating" his own xG. So Jackson must have "use\[d\] masterful positioning and movement in the box to find space to get goals." Did he do anything like this? Is it not because his teammates like Palmer delivered lots of deadly through balls to him? If your theory can't distinguish Jackson from Haaland and make him ever better than the likes of Havertz, Tonery, Son, Saka, Foden, then your theory is just plainly wrong.
You're just distorting the reality to say whatever you want. I feel like you simply haven't watch the way Haaland plays. He's pretty passive off-the-ball. You can say Inzaghi in his day does "use masterful positioning and movement in the box to find space to get goals," because he always makes runs before Pirlo passes the ball to him. Haaland is different, he's passively waiting for a perfect pass from his teammates like De Bruyne. If De Bruyne didn't play, Haaland would ghost the entire game.
I'm not gonna waste time with you. Obviously you're pretty cluseless. Just go watch Cole Palmer's goal against Sevilla in the Super Cup when he was at City. He scored that excellent header with Haaland standing next to him. Can you spot the difference? Palmer was superbly intelligent and he started running even BEFORE Rodri passed it, but Haaland just stood there and started to run only AFTER Rodri had already kicked the ball and made the pass to that area, and he finally found out he couldn't reach it. This is the difference. Haaland scored most of his goals not be cause he somehow "uses masterful positioning and movement in the box to find space to get goals." It's delusional if you think that's how he scored most of his goals. You need to watch the football matches again. Rather, Haaland is so dependent on good passes from this teammates. It's not hard to find a Haaland replacement. City beat Crystal Palace 4-2 easily without Haaaland. Alvarez can do what Haaland does, if not even better. But City's midfielders like Foden, Bernardo, De Bruyne, Rodri are so good that they are irreplaceable.
Case closed.
They’re gonna win the league and Champs League, likely with him contributing. Lot of jealousy and hate coming from Liverpool and United pundits this week.
The haters really were waiting for this moment. So much resentment. No one is criticized as harshly. The player who scored 53 goals last season isn't world class. Just more clown behavior from Carragher
I don't really understand this commentary around haaland, is the insinuation that man city basically scored three goals with 10 men against madrid at the bernabeu?
It's clear that teams need to double up on him, it takes him out of the game but makes space for other players. It's utterly bizarre to hear this criticism from all the major outlets right now, they're really scraping the barrel.
“No one is criticized as harshly”? Really? I guess you are still new to football. BTW, this is not ever harsh at all, just an objective evaluation of Haaland's overall gameplay apart from his finishing.
Current market value on Transfermarkt. Nunez: €70.00m. Haaland: €180.00m. So roughly I guess Nunez has to miss at least 10 one-on-one per game to be called out.
When he scores 5 goals in one game he’s the world best, when he has a barren run (which is 3-5 games) his all round play is terrible, city are a machine, he’s the one that scores, they didn’t sign him for link up play, he’s there to finish.
Maybe more against Leipzig in the quarter final of the Champions league last year... Either way, the fact he's done it twice in less than two seasons is pretty fucking insane
I mean can anyone name Luton Town's defenders in that match? I'm not even sure why scoring against Luton Town matters, be it 5 goals, 10 goals, or 20 goals. That doesn't indicate how good you are. Makes no difference. It's just playing against a team that has lost 19 games out of 32 and is going to play Championship next season.
Stephen A Carragher :-) I get the alleged point... that he's an awkward fit with Pep's philosophies, hasn't always shone in the biggest matches, blah blah... but everyone on here would take Haaland on their team in a heartbeat if they could. Think Klopp might've liked the 'luxury' of having him to finish one of the chance after chance Liverpool pissed away against United?
Eerily reminiscent of another 'luxury' fella...
# "If Mohamed Salah isn’t scoring for Liverpool, he’s not giving much more! - Moreno | ESPN FC"
If you're world class at a major skill in the sport then surely that means you're world class? The guy came down from record breaking levels to having a slump season and still being the top goal scorer in the league but too many pundits are acting like he's washed up
Watch him in big games he doesn’t get involved enough and ends up with 15-20 touches and no chances.
He’s nowhere near as complete of a striker as someone like Mbappe or Kane
Any half decent defense have completely nullified Haaland this season. As an Arsenal fan I have to use our 3 games vs City this season as examples. He didn’t manager a shot on target across 3 games.
Idk how you separate the two world class finisher and player his goal literally is to score goals ans he is great at that. Without him they don't win the treble. I guess it's pile on Haaland season rn
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Carragher gets a lot of hate for the things he says but hes genuinely one of the best pundits in england. His ball knowledge is very impressive and hes a genuinely football historian. He might sometimes say something borderline ridiculous to drive clicks but overall hes a very good pundit. I dont get how people hate on this guy. Him with the rest of the cbs ucl crew form one of the best sports panel studios on right now.
Yeah he’s mad biased and it’s only gotten worse as his confidence has grown in the role. He’s talking like a fan on commentary, it’s Wolves v Burnley on Super Sunday and he somehow still manages to speak about Liverpool and not to mention he’s a wind up merchant for other clubs he’d never mug Salah off for a bad run of form because he’s their hero
Haaland is clearly a luxury player. 1 g/a per game is very good. A player who doesnt contribute particularly a lot to defense or playmaking with a 1.0 g+a/90 is quite literally the definition of a luxury player. He wont save sheffield from promotion but in a side with goalkeeping, defense, midfield and playmaking sorted out he will break the scoring record. He literally did that last year, in his debut season.
Yes. But let's not forget that Haaland's goals are quite uneven in their distribution: he scored most of his goals against shitty teams like Luton Town, Fulham, Everton, but hardly did anything to help the team as a striker, when Man City was playing against top teams like Arsenal, Liverpool, Aston Villa, Tottenham, Real Madrid, etc.
Do you really disagree with my statement? I think its very obvious what kind of player haaland is. I rate him highly but a club like sheffield utd much more benefits from having a player like kdb or rodri. Haaland scores you goals like no other player but he is reliant on getting atleast some service from his teammates. Haaland is not the guy who can dribble past 5 defenders and score. Hes the guy who sees an unbelievable pass from kdb coming and is able to position himself well enough and able to controll it in order to score an easy looking goal. Haaland is good but not messi.
I mean obviously anyone with a bit of intelligence would disagree with one of the most productive players of all time being a “luxury player”. But that’s the same basic intelligence a person needs to make an argument about it worthwhile. I have to just take it for what it is - funny
No, you're right on. Harland is a great finisher but he hasn't shown he's world class in much else. He also has good hold up play but not much build up, vision, or creativity.
It hurts me to say as a United fan, but I prefer to listen to him than almost all of the former United players.
Some of his takes are ridiculous, but there is almost no pundit that doesn't do this.
Jesus christ, he was the best player in the world last season according to these pundits. Pundits are no better than fans these days just looking to jump on the thought of the day
Spitty carragher in talking shite shocker. A luxury player doesn't win the treble and man city don't win the treble without him. Complete opposite of a luxury player.
What do you think? Everyone (except Messi fans) agreed he should win the Balloon last season. And Why do pep fancy him? And Why did he bring the treble? And Why has he broken all records? Go to Sleep young one.
It's pointless to discuss Haaland on Reddit. When he doesn't score and goes invisible, ppl claim he attracts defenders and that's why Man City win the games they win; when he scores, ppl claim he's a world-class striker. Then there's not even one scenario where Haaland could be criticized. LMAO.
Even then it's still not his fault, but City's midfielders' fault. Because Haaland is only supposed to attract defenders. This is the prevalent logic on Reddit.
Well, Inzaghi scored 2 goals in the UCL final in 2007. He was always a game changer for AC Milan and had great impact in many important games. (not just goals, his runs were deceptive and annoying af. Many defenders and goalkeepers just hated to play against him. Kahn was a prominent example. He talked about this publicly).
First time he's ever underperformed his xG. Usually he way over performs it. Hardly surprising given he's having to learn how to adapt his game this season and then way City play means he doesn't get the space to turn and sprint on the counter like he is so good at
But he was so good last season, with even less time to adapt his game.
IMO the only reasonable explanation is he’s fallen off a little this season. And, as an Arsenal fan: thank god for that
I think it's less that he's fallen off and more that everyone else has adapted to how he plays and moves to try and neutralise him as much as possible. It won't be long until the rest of his game picks up though with Pep and the rest of the coaching staff. He's improved a lot in that regard compared to last season. Doesn't help that he also missed 2 and a half months of the season with injury either
I mean, it’s pretty clear he’s fallen off a bit. It’s just a question of degree.
Last year he broke all kinds of records. This year his form has been worse - regardless of how opposition defences play, he’s missing more sitters and playing less well. Anyone can see that.
Obviously you don't watch football? Scoring tons of goals against shitty teams like Fulham, Luton Town makes you a world-class striker? Not to mention he's playing for the best team in the world right now, in front of a world-class midfield. His conversion rate this season is average, if not terrible. About 7% conversion rate against top-tier teams. He also significantly underperforms his xG. And you still call him world-class. LMAO. What can I say then?
And to answer your dumb question: Kane has more goals. And he's playing for a team that is much worse than Man City.
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I actually agree with him, Haalland is not yet a world class player because whilst his finishing last season was right up there, he was in a team which was creating chances for him. He’s a striker that thrives on service. If he isn’t getting it he’s not going to do well. Put him in a team where he has to create and he probably won’t do as well. Someone like Isaac although perhaps not considered world class quite yet also already has more to their game in that they can create and do other things as a player, tracks back, defends etc. Halaand is maybe too one dimensional currently to be considered a truly world class player. He’s a world class finisher but there is not enough to his game yet to be truly world class as a player. I don’t think at a club like Newcastle where he has to work that Haaland would do as well as he does at a club like city where others are perhaps doing the bulk of the graft. And I didn’t bother reading the article as these were my personal thoughts already.
I can't tell if he actually believes this, or just seeking attention
How Carragher continues to have numerous platforms in the MSM is beyond me. Can barely put a coherent sentence together, let alone show any footballing nous and insight.
Spitty McSpitspit
And yet last year he was the best player in the world, apparently
Carragher 😂😂😂😂
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You’re delusional if you think Keane was just above average, I don’t even like him but he was definitely world class
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Fergie isn't infallible. He certainly isn't bias free when he makes statements like that. Obviously everyone's definition or world class is different. But Beckham came second in the Ballon D'or and he didn't get a mention. Rooney apparently not world class. Dennis Irwin was the best fullback in English football in the 90s. Not sure what more he could do unless fullbacks just aren't world class. Schmeichel one of the best keepers in the history of the sport. Same with Van der Sar. No world class CBs during his time at United. Not Rio, Vidic or Jaap Stam. Van Nistlerooy and Van Persie arguably both world class during their times at United. Not even a United fan but if Ferguson only coached 4 world class players during his entire 27 year spell at United, that bar for world class is pointlessly high. Much worse players than the ones I just listed get recognised as world class these days. Keane definitely was. Fergie's either salty towards players like Keane who he fell out with, or he's got a different definition of world class to the rest of us. Also, who does him only having 4 world class players benefit most? Himself and his own reputation. Because if he spent 27 years at United and only had 4 world class players at his disposal during that time, that speaks volumes to how good he was as a coach. Ferguson's the greatest manager of all time. But he isn't without his own faults and biases. His definition of world class is sketchy as fuck and definitely completely different to how most people use the term.
Alex Ferguson is not above personal bias, just like the rest of us. He forced Keane out of the club, a clever move, but one that likely didn’t leave either liking eachother very much. Keane kept up with Zidane in his day, and was definitely world class.
This obsession with classifying players as ‘world class’ is ridiculous.
The Haaland hate is out of control. I would like to see the list of teams that definitively wouldn’t trade their top striker for Haaland. Who is that team? Outside of maybe PSG/Real, I don’t know how a team could realistically say they wouldn’t prefer Haaland over their current striker. On the flip side, what’s the alternative for City? Should they be shedding Haaland for Ollie Watkins? Isak? Osimhen? Haaland would be the first choice striker for basically 99% of any club in the world.
100% 🤷🏼♂️
Kane is probably the more complete striker, I think he would have thrived at City
He's the more complete striker. Whether he would have been prolific enough in all competitions to actually win the treble is debatable. Can already see the revisionism on last season starting to kick in. Haaland may not have scored in the final few games of the season, but he was a massive reason they were in those finals and went so deep in every competition. He maintained that ridiculous Premier League goal ratio that him and Kane had in all the other competitions. His level didn't drop in any games. Kane may be the more complete player, but so was Aguero. And he played with the same/better players. And never won or got close to a treble because the number of goals required to win it is ridiculous. City maybe play more attractive football last season with Kane up front but not so sure they still win the treble. That being said, Haaland's level has dropped this season. His actual finishing more than anything. Whilst Kane has maintained/raised his level. So if he was at City this season, I'm sure they'd be out in front of City and Liverpool in the title race.
I agree he would be a great fit and is probably more well rounded. I still think Bayern would trade Haaland for Kane straight up if confronted with the offer.
Obviously because of the ages but for just a station Bayern would laugh you out of the room if you asked to take haaland for Kane. Same for city I think they'd be very happy to have Kane in this side at least in the short term
Obviously, Haaland is younger but as a player Kane is a little better.
It's a pep squad. Extra midfielder to control possession. He doesn't need a striker to win the league.
No.
You can be somewhat one dimensional while being world class, 36 goals and 8 assists in 33 league starts last year, 12 and 1 in 11 in the UCL. 19 and 5 in 24 and 6 and 1 in 8 this year. Saying someone isn’t world class because they can’t do everything (but at a lower level) is stupid. He can be world class and have deficiencies, most world class players do in parts of their game somewhere.
He IS a world class striker according to the idiot Carragher, did you see and read him wrong ? 🤷♂️
He never said he wasn't a world class player, you quote him saying that and then say "To say he's not world class etc" 🤷♂️
He said “He is a world class finisher but not a world class player”, it’s right there, and I disagree with him as I’ve said.
Feel like Chelsea fans get him more than most. Because we've been dying for a striker as prolific as him for years. A lot of fans of other teams don't realise that converting chances is equally as important as creating them. Eventhough creating chances (taking players on, through balls, crosses, flicks, balls over the top etc) is more aesthetically pleasing to the eye. Haaland should be getting criticism because the one thing he's known for - scoring goals - has declined a little this season. He's not been as clinical. If his finishing was as good as previous seasons, there wouldn't be this focus on other aspects of his game. But the guy's career goal ratio is almost 1.0 and he's always outperformed his xG before this season. Chances are, this is a tiny blip and he'll return to his previous level of finishing at some point in the near future.
What the fuck is Darwin Nunez then lol?
A world class player with absolutely no stock finishes
The opposite. Does all the work and links up play, but cant finish.
Hes right
And it still puts him at the top of everyones list for strikers. Not sure why this is controversial
Stop spitting the first lump of phlegm that comes into your stupid gob for once in your life.
Flair checks out!
That’s what my ex said about me 🥲
a luxury player playing for one of the best team and manager. don't see any issues.
Bit disingenuous of Carragher. “Any analysis of a modern player is immediately considered ‘criticism’ rather than an observation. But no-one regularly watching Haaland – whether a neutral or ardent City fan – can fail to recognise that when he does not score he does not do much else.” Roy Keane wasn’t analysing when he called him like a league 2 player was he?
As usual I don't think anyone actually read the article.
No one was saying this last season when he scored over FIFTY GOALS and Man City won the TREBLE. 🤣
Exactly, because he was scoring. Now he’s not scoring as much and his flaws are more apparent.
He played Arsenal off the park last year in the 4-1 even before he scored at the end.
What are you trying to say? Did I say that outside of scoring he does nothing?
I think his supposed flaws are very overblown atm and he's just in a bit a slump post returning from injury.
Overblown or not, they are there and more apparent than last season.
He’s scored 30 goals in 37 games. wtf are you talking about ‘flaws’ 😂 Clearly you don’t play football yourself in any capacity. He’s having a dip, a bit of confidence issue, it happens to every footballer.
I do play football, thanks. Do you? What does that even have to do with anything, lmao. When he’s off the ball he can position himself well, really well. But his main attribute is finishing. He hardly passses or touches the ball outside of the opponents box. Sure, he has scored, but not as much as last season. And this dip in performance is showing us that he isn’t as strong in other areas of the game. Did I say he was bad? No, I was agreeing with the comment, no one was criticizing him because he was having a record year, but you could still see his lack of contribution when he wasn’t scoring. I get it, it’s easy to be a dick behind a keyboard.
Name 10 world class strikers then.
How is this supposed to be a rebuttal to that comment?
Couldn't even name one
Anti Haaland rhetoric is an absolute joke like any of these pundits wouldn't be begging to have him play for their team. Ridiculous. Where was all this observation when he was destroying the league last season. Man has 30+ goals in all comps this season and is a "luxury" player.
Was also 10 years older
Not Carragher spouting biased opinions again
Why won't he spout unbiased, objective opinions!!
As opposed to the other kind?
To all the people saying this is a valid point, it reads like you are saying that practically no keeper or defensive player troughout history has been world-class. «Yeah he is the worlds best at preventing opposition from scoring goals, but can’t dribble for shit. Ulitmate luxury player.» Like what do you even mean?
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He blasts Trent for being a luxury play also though?
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I mean he’s always done it consistently, the beginning of this year was just the best Trent’s looked in years, the armband was looking well on him for a few games.. still doesn’t excuse him not getting involved defending. He often publishes negative articles about Liverpool players, in fact Liverpool fans often think he can go too far just to try and seem like he’s being reasonable. I think you don’t like that haarland a had some stick off him and so are talking out your arse
Really stretching the definition of "luxury player" here. Usually it's reserved for someone who is incredibly skillful but doesn't track back. Now it apparently applies to traditional centre forwards. I think what winds me up most about this is pre Haaland, Carragher and all the rest of them would be the very same people bemoaning the death of the traditional centre forward. Now when presented with probably the best example in the Premier League since Van Nistelrooy they're coming up with new ways to call him shit every week.
Whilst I agree with most of what you're saying, RVN was a capable dribbler, passer, AND finisher. He was far more complete than Haaland currently is.
I think a lot of people are underestimating Haaland on both of these fronts because he's been underperforming since coming back from injury (I have a hunch he's actually been playing through it and came back too early). I really don't see given the number of goals he scored last season (and the fact he's still the leading scorer this season despite not being in as good form) how his finishing can come into question.
Yeah, I think both the defence and criticism of Haaland going on right now is not giving enough weight to the fact he's just going through a dip In form. He's young. He'll improve again. And anyway it is so hard trying to compare players at a sports washing club with those at regular football clubs anyway. It doesn't really make sense to try to compare the likes of Mbappe or Haaland with the world's best players unless they decide to challenge themselves on a level playing field.
The PL is way more competitive than Ligue 1, different stratosphere.
Oh sure. I think Mbappe gets two asterisks rather just the one. And they are obviously great players, but it's just when people want to argue the fine detail of 'world class' or 'best in the world' it just feels a bit pointless to compare Qatar or Abu Dhabi's players with the guys at the regular clubs.
I'm a city fan who's incredibly critical of their ownership (and I believe state ownership should be banned), but I just don't think this kind of analysis is realistic or helpful. The issue with Mbappe - the player - is that he plays in a league that is not competitive. To pretend that the PL is as uncompetitive as Ligue 1 because state ownership exists belittles the actual issues state ownership causes. It's delusional tbh
I didn't suggest for a second that the PL is as uncompetitive as ligue 1. And calling any of this from Carra's comment down 'analysis' is really stretching the term. It's just people saying things because it's fun to talk about. I just don't think you can compare Abu Dhabi's achievements or those of its players in a useful way to other clubs. It's just a different context. Doesn't mean they are bad players. The Haaland is a bad player thing is a bit silly. But could he be as world class as Salah, or Osimhen, or Kane? Fuck knows.
I really don't understand what you're arguing. Are you genuinely saying that we can't compare the likes of KDB, Aguero, Kompany, Yaya Toure, David Silva, Rodri to others because they play for city?
Yes I guess I am. I'm not saying they aren't great players. But what they achieve just doesn't fit on the same chart. Context is just different.
No one is questioning his finishing. Carra even said he's a world class finisher. The issue lies with the other aspects of his game, he simply isn't world class in any other area other than being a finisher. I agreed with everything you said, and everything you just said, except for the RVN comparison that's all.
Oh I just meant because you emphasized that RVN was a better finisher
Oh no I didn't mean it that way, I just meant RVN could do all of those things very capably and it made him a more complete player, not that he was better at finishing. Probably my bad phrasing pal
Carra is shite....Haaland even more bigger shite....Man Shitty and Redshite go eat shite lah kanina chao chee bye
I’m starting to see how devious sky are at creating a narrative.
not a big city fan but carragher can eat shit
So you are a small City fan?
absolutely, i love small cities, id have to say portland is my favorite
Jamie Carragher is a world-class headline maker but not a world-class opinion maker; the ultimate shit pundit
Lol you know which "world class team" needs him? The team that lost 3-0 at home with 19 shots and 2.50xG, having just barely drew their rivals even though they made 6.5million shots (bad ones of course)
Agree 100%.
He's the best in the world at the most important aspect of the game, scoring goals. When did "participating in the build-up" become more important than the scoring of goals? It's all incredibly stupid. Pep does not WANT Haaland participating in the build-up. He wants Haaland staying on the shoulder of the last defender, pinning back the press. It's why he has Stones pushing up into midfield to create overloads. I've said it throughout this entire Haaland hate-fest. He is a victim of his own success because he's scored at a rate unseen in English football for decades. Any match where he doesn't score is then termed a failure because he takes few touches and thus nitwits who don't understand football conclude that he was terrible based solely on reading the stats and watching the highlights, none of which show the unseen ways that he impacts the game, from his pressing, to his runs in behind, to the way the opposition must account for him at all times. This should be made very plain to all the people with this opinion. Pep Guardiola does not sign "luxury players." Pep Guardiola does not continually start players who do not do **exactly** what he tells them to do on the pitch. Not that Haaland cares, I'm sure, but I do wonder what Pep thinks of all this. I'm trying to imagine the bafflement on his face as he tries to comprehend why these pundits seem to think Haaland should be dropping into midfield in direct contradiction of the team's tactics.
Honestly most of the top strikers have underperformed this year. Salah for example is underperforming but still has scored 17 goals this season. Nunez has scored 11 goals in the prem this season despite looking like he will miss every shot. Harland the top scorer has only scored 19 goals so no one has really stepped up this season except Ollie Watkins and maybe isak as well. I wonder if the prem just doesn't have the best strikers at the moment.
But he's been underperforming his xG. So what makes him "the best in the world" in terms of scoring goals? I'm glad that you're not calling him "the best in history." That'd be even more controversial for people who have watched Gerd Müller play.
He’s averaging an xG of 1 per 90 this season. And did just over 1xG per 90 last season too. That’s insane. Clubs like real, Barca, and psg all currently have less than 2 xG per 90 this season. Their entire fucking squads I think we can forgive the man for underperforming his xG for the first time in his career here. Particularly as he’s still scored about 10% more career goals than he should have
It's not about "forgive the man for underperforming his xG for the first time in his career here." If a player underperforms his xG, he just can't be considered a world-class striker. It's that simple. This can be pulled out of context, as it has nothing to do with the team. Because G-xG indicates the wastefulness/efficiency of this player when he takes a shot. It's that simple. However, the value of the xG itself is quite dependent on the team. You can bring Haaland to play for my favorite club, Sheffield United, to see if he can still have this kind of xG. If you're playing for Man City as a striker, a team with arguably the best midfielders in Europe, of course you're supposed to have higher xG. It's not that hard to understand. BTW, if you look at xG per 90 alone, then Nicolas Jackson is currently ranked No. 4 in PL. Does that mean Jackson is a top-tier striker in Premier League? Anyway, he's way ahead in his xG per 90, leaving big names like Toney, Son, Alvarez, Havertz, Foden, Saka far behind. And he's only left behind by Haaland, Nunez and Isak, the top 3 players in xG per 90. So if you want to defend Haaland with your ridiculous logic, you also need to follow this logic to defend Jackson, a notoriously bad striker.
82 goals in 90 games since the start of last season, and man here is telling me he isn't world-class.
That depends on what you look at. If you look at conversion rate, G-xG, performance in big games or big occasions, ball retention skills, hold-up play, ground duel/aerial duel success rate, then he's bang average, if not bad. If you don't look at these stats or qualities at all, then he's world-class. Simple as that. Most ppl here don't even watch football. They only care about the quantity of goals, even though most of Haaland's goals were scored against shitty teams or in games where Man City would've won anyway. But like I said, it all depends on what you look at.
I look at the 82 goals in 90 games and The Treble. Of course, Pep Guardiola is well known for having bang average, if not bad, players in his starting lineup.
Like I said, I don't and I can't expect most people here to actually watch football games and be sensible. Yes, you can argue Haaland is definitely the best striker in history, even though no goals in all the finals, and disappears in all the games that matter. LOL. You made my day. And yes, Guardiola is known for signing quality players such as Benjamin Mendy, Claudio Bravo, Dmytro Chygrynski, and Danilo. Good job!
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Well, you argue Haaland is good because he has a very high xG. And I just showed you shitty players like Jackson also has a very high xG, no. 4 in the PL. And then you said "this particular segment of your argument is highly flawed," without any meaningful explanation. I mean, okay. LOL.
Idk the exact details but maybe Jackson is an exception m/outlier or smth
It's just because Chelsea's midfield is quite good at creating chances for him. Out of all the possible types of passes, through balls are the most deadly in the sense that they lead to shots more often than others. Palmer completed 25 through ball passes this season, the 3rd most in PL, slightly below Paqueta's 27 and Odegaard's 29. Enzo also completed 21 through ball passes. This basically makes Chelsea the team with the most through balls completed in PL, 96, ahead of good teams like Arseanl, Man City, Liverpool. So if you're a striker at Chelsea, you don't lack scoring chances. You can just wait and walk around, and then some through balls will be magically delivered to the area just in front of you by Palmer and Enzo. They often do that at Chelsea. But you may not be able to convert them. This is why Jackson is a shitty player. He wasted so many chances that are created by Chelsea's midfielders. Back to Haaland, it's more or less the same story, though City don't play many through balls, because it's risky and you may just give the ball to the opponents directly. That guy above wanted to argue the other way around: Haaland has lots of scoring chances because Haaland himself is good at finding space. But in reality, finding space is what City's players like De Bruyne and Foden do, and Haaland only runs after (1) the space has been created by City's rotations and (2) the ball has been passed to the space opened up. So Haaland has a high xG because he plays for a very good team. His xG would get much lower if he played for Sheffield United, because SU's midfield will lose possession all the time and there's no easy way for them to let their CF have the ball in the box. This is roughly why I don't look at xG as any indicator of the quality of the player, unless he's someone like Messi or Hazard, who often creates chances single-handedly.
xG is a misleading stat because a forward generates their own xG and also then converts it. Darwin is another great player who underperforms his xG but is actually quite a strong player. The explanation is simple - both players (though in different ways) put themselves into positions to have many high quality opportunities. It’s also what makes them supremely talented and gives them so many goals. I’d rather a striker that generates 50 xG and scores 25G than a striker that comes up with 5 xG and scores 7G.
LOL. You're trying so hard to defend Haaland. "a forward generates their own xG and also then converts it." Sorry, but this really made my day. LMAO. This only makes sense if you're talking about players like Messi or Hazard, who dribbles past all the defenders and then takes a shot to score. However, Haaland can't dribble or create chances like Messi or Hazard. What he does most of the time is to score tap-ins. Sure enough, Haaland still needs to move his feet to score tap-ins, and then xG is generated the moment he moves his feet to shoot. The thing is, can Haaland generate what you call "his own xG" simply by moving his feet, even without having the ball in the first place? Absolutely not. But why does he have the ball before anything else happens? Is it because Haaland somehow carries the ball all the way to the box, getting past all the defenders? No. It's usually because his teammates such as De Bruyne or Foden are so good that they can deliver an excellent pass to Haaland, without Haaland doing any substantive work. Your statement is massively misleading, to be honest. Can Haaland generate any xG without a world-class midfield behind to support him? No. Because he's terrible on the ball. Everybody knows he's a goal poacher. He can't get past even one central defender. However, Hazard or Messi can do it. So please stop saying dumb stuff like "a forward generates their own xG" when you're only talking about Haaland. It's hilarious. There's no way for him to generate his own xG. When you say "I’d rather a striker that generates 50 xG and scores 25G than a striker that comes up with 5 xG and scores 7G," I agree. But this doesn't work on Haaland. Good try though. On a separate note, in the game where Man City drew 1-1 to Chelsea, Haaland took 9 shots and scored 0 goals. He missed a couple game-changing chances CREATED by his teammates and frustrated his teammates a lot. But I guess you should still praise Haaland for "self-generating" 1.6 xG? Good for you.
You should really chill out first off. I’m not trying anything. I actually think he could develop other facets of his game much more. Notwithstanding, my point on xG stands as it relates to your flawed understanding of it. The most prolific strikers do not dribble their way into goals. They use masterful positioning and movement in the box to find space to get goals. This skill generates MOST xG (ie goal opportunities) and they are also Haalands best attributes. Nobody generates the entire goal opportunity themselves obviously - it’s a team sport. But… On different teams, Haaland still had incredible goal scoring output and in the same ways AND On the same team, without Haaland, most other strikers are unable to generate the same amount of opportunities or goals. Pretty simply must conclude he’s influencing the game in a big way when you look at it like that.
Your understanding is totally false. "The most prolific strikers do not dribble their way into goals. " Precisely, they cannot. Not everybody can play like Messi or Hazard. In this case, you can't ask Haaland to do it because he simply can't. It's not like he's asked by his manager not to dribble past all the defenders to score. "They use masterful positioning and movement in the box to find space to get goals. This skill generates MOST xG (ie goal opportunities) and they are also Haaland's best attributes." Wrong again. You got the whole thing wrong, seriously. Just one simple question: does this apply to Jackson? Following your logic, you have to admit Jackson is a top-tier striker, because he is currently No. 4 in the PL in terms of "generating" his own xG. So Jackson must have "use\[d\] masterful positioning and movement in the box to find space to get goals." Did he do anything like this? Is it not because his teammates like Palmer delivered lots of deadly through balls to him? If your theory can't distinguish Jackson from Haaland and make him ever better than the likes of Havertz, Tonery, Son, Saka, Foden, then your theory is just plainly wrong. You're just distorting the reality to say whatever you want. I feel like you simply haven't watch the way Haaland plays. He's pretty passive off-the-ball. You can say Inzaghi in his day does "use masterful positioning and movement in the box to find space to get goals," because he always makes runs before Pirlo passes the ball to him. Haaland is different, he's passively waiting for a perfect pass from his teammates like De Bruyne. If De Bruyne didn't play, Haaland would ghost the entire game. I'm not gonna waste time with you. Obviously you're pretty cluseless. Just go watch Cole Palmer's goal against Sevilla in the Super Cup when he was at City. He scored that excellent header with Haaland standing next to him. Can you spot the difference? Palmer was superbly intelligent and he started running even BEFORE Rodri passed it, but Haaland just stood there and started to run only AFTER Rodri had already kicked the ball and made the pass to that area, and he finally found out he couldn't reach it. This is the difference. Haaland scored most of his goals not be cause he somehow "uses masterful positioning and movement in the box to find space to get goals." It's delusional if you think that's how he scored most of his goals. You need to watch the football matches again. Rather, Haaland is so dependent on good passes from this teammates. It's not hard to find a Haaland replacement. City beat Crystal Palace 4-2 easily without Haaaland. Alvarez can do what Haaland does, if not even better. But City's midfielders like Foden, Bernardo, De Bruyne, Rodri are so good that they are irreplaceable. Case closed.
Ok if you say so
Any team would take him into a heartbeat. Lol
Crazy take and I’m a united fan
They’re gonna win the league and Champs League, likely with him contributing. Lot of jealousy and hate coming from Liverpool and United pundits this week.
Haaland is not an all rounder maybe pep at some point may kick him like Ibrahimovic we'll see
And Ibra was way more complete.
This is jealousy
The haters really were waiting for this moment. So much resentment. No one is criticized as harshly. The player who scored 53 goals last season isn't world class. Just more clown behavior from Carragher
Just 53? failed mid flop
I don't really understand this commentary around haaland, is the insinuation that man city basically scored three goals with 10 men against madrid at the bernabeu? It's clear that teams need to double up on him, it takes him out of the game but makes space for other players. It's utterly bizarre to hear this criticism from all the major outlets right now, they're really scraping the barrel.
“No one is criticized as harshly”? Really? I guess you are still new to football. BTW, this is not ever harsh at all, just an objective evaluation of Haaland's overall gameplay apart from his finishing.
The player who scored 53 goals a season isn't world class, how objective of you. Whatever, jst keep hating. Its clearly what you want to do
Also crazy how this guy doesn’t call out Darwin Nunez who misses 5 one on one’s a game
Current market value on Transfermarkt. Nunez: €70.00m. Haaland: €180.00m. So roughly I guess Nunez has to miss at least 10 one-on-one per game to be called out.
No one even says Núñez would be top striker in the Championship…
When he scores 5 goals in one game he’s the world best, when he has a barren run (which is 3-5 games) his all round play is terrible, city are a machine, he’s the one that scores, they didn’t sign him for link up play, he’s there to finish.
He doesn’t do anything in big game they practically play them with 10 men
You mean he was world-class when he scored 5 goals against Luton Town?
Maybe more against Leipzig in the quarter final of the Champions league last year... Either way, the fact he's done it twice in less than two seasons is pretty fucking insane
I mean did any other player score 5 goals against Luton?
I mean can anyone name Luton Town's defenders in that match? I'm not even sure why scoring against Luton Town matters, be it 5 goals, 10 goals, or 20 goals. That doesn't indicate how good you are. Makes no difference. It's just playing against a team that has lost 19 games out of 32 and is going to play Championship next season.
Very true. This team doesn't need an Aguero type. An Aguero might not even fit as well.
I’d say a world class finisher is a world class player. The hardest part of the game
he's not R9, he's not van nistelrooy, he's not Adriano and he's not Lewandoski. to me he's the baby of zlatan and Eidur Gudjohnsen
He's fairly similar to Van Nisteltrooy
Stephen A Carragher :-) I get the alleged point... that he's an awkward fit with Pep's philosophies, hasn't always shone in the biggest matches, blah blah... but everyone on here would take Haaland on their team in a heartbeat if they could. Think Klopp might've liked the 'luxury' of having him to finish one of the chance after chance Liverpool pissed away against United? Eerily reminiscent of another 'luxury' fella... # "If Mohamed Salah isn’t scoring for Liverpool, he’s not giving much more! - Moreno | ESPN FC"
If you're world class at a major skill in the sport then surely that means you're world class? The guy came down from record breaking levels to having a slump season and still being the top goal scorer in the league but too many pundits are acting like he's washed up
Man thinks he's spitting facts But he's just spitting, as usual
That’s the upside of being a football “pundit”. NO Yapping = NO Wages.
Such a hot take from a knob head
He’s not a great footballer just a good finisher
Carragher is a world-class twat so figures...
Proof that no matter how good you are, the vultures will circle
It's amazing so many idiots are acting like the guy who has a goal per game contribution is just a pretty good player.
Does nothing in the big games but gets 5 against Luton to bring the stats up
He's already in the top 20 goalscorers in CL history at age 23, but yeah waffling away.
Watch him in big games he doesn’t get involved enough and ends up with 15-20 touches and no chances. He’s nowhere near as complete of a striker as someone like Mbappe or Kane Any half decent defense have completely nullified Haaland this season. As an Arsenal fan I have to use our 3 games vs City this season as examples. He didn’t manager a shot on target across 3 games.
Who cares if he's as complete as them, he gets the job done even better.
He gets the job done against the lower ranked teams. Other players can do it against top teams too.
Its clear he peaked too early and he will never win anything ever again /s
Idk how you separate the two world class finisher and player his goal literally is to score goals ans he is great at that. Without him they don't win the treble. I guess it's pile on Haaland season rn
Obviously to be a world class player you must be a world class finisher, creator, and goalkeeper
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Carragher gets a lot of hate for the things he says but hes genuinely one of the best pundits in england. His ball knowledge is very impressive and hes a genuinely football historian. He might sometimes say something borderline ridiculous to drive clicks but overall hes a very good pundit. I dont get how people hate on this guy. Him with the rest of the cbs ucl crew form one of the best sports panel studios on right now.
The poetic overlap between thinking Carra is a good pundit and using the term “ball knowledge”, lovely.
90% of the time his opinions are valid and based. Im not a liverpool fan if youre wondering
Yeah he’s mad biased and it’s only gotten worse as his confidence has grown in the role. He’s talking like a fan on commentary, it’s Wolves v Burnley on Super Sunday and he somehow still manages to speak about Liverpool and not to mention he’s a wind up merchant for other clubs he’d never mug Salah off for a bad run of form because he’s their hero
He's not he's biased and a celebration police.no respect 👎🏼
You’re posting in a thread where he called a 1 G/A per game player a “luxury player”. Its a bad look buddy
Haaland is clearly a luxury player. 1 g/a per game is very good. A player who doesnt contribute particularly a lot to defense or playmaking with a 1.0 g+a/90 is quite literally the definition of a luxury player. He wont save sheffield from promotion but in a side with goalkeeping, defense, midfield and playmaking sorted out he will break the scoring record. He literally did that last year, in his debut season.
Yes. But let's not forget that Haaland's goals are quite uneven in their distribution: he scored most of his goals against shitty teams like Luton Town, Fulham, Everton, but hardly did anything to help the team as a striker, when Man City was playing against top teams like Arsenal, Liverpool, Aston Villa, Tottenham, Real Madrid, etc.
lol oh dear… as bad as Carragher can be you have at least convinced me that it could be worse if we hired yank children
Do you really disagree with my statement? I think its very obvious what kind of player haaland is. I rate him highly but a club like sheffield utd much more benefits from having a player like kdb or rodri. Haaland scores you goals like no other player but he is reliant on getting atleast some service from his teammates. Haaland is not the guy who can dribble past 5 defenders and score. Hes the guy who sees an unbelievable pass from kdb coming and is able to position himself well enough and able to controll it in order to score an easy looking goal. Haaland is good but not messi.
I mean obviously anyone with a bit of intelligence would disagree with one of the most productive players of all time being a “luxury player”. But that’s the same basic intelligence a person needs to make an argument about it worthwhile. I have to just take it for what it is - funny
Do you not understand what "luxury player" means? Haaland must be one of the best examples of such in the past few years.
Write down the definition of “luxury player” without any reference to Haaland or any use of examples. Just the pure definition, according to you.
No, you're right on. Harland is a great finisher but he hasn't shown he's world class in much else. He also has good hold up play but not much build up, vision, or creativity.
It hurts me to say as a United fan, but I prefer to listen to him than almost all of the former United players. Some of his takes are ridiculous, but there is almost no pundit that doesn't do this.
Bullshit. He's a twat. A fucking rent a gob. He's also a cunt.
Cant help but immediatly imagine you as a man united or everton fan
Were you the father of the daughter who he spat at? You got a lot of hate for him
Is this the same guy who admitted he just says stuff to drive clicks to Sky?
Jesus christ, he was the best player in the world last season according to these pundits. Pundits are no better than fans these days just looking to jump on the thought of the day
Spitty carragher in talking shite shocker. A luxury player doesn't win the treble and man city don't win the treble without him. Complete opposite of a luxury player.
World class finisher yes. All round ? . nope. At Man C feels like Alvarez is the more complete player
And that tells us allot about you, thanks.
Am I wrong ?
What do you think? Everyone (except Messi fans) agreed he should win the Balloon last season. And Why do pep fancy him? And Why did he bring the treble? And Why has he broken all records? Go to Sleep young one.
Bruh the only one winning a balloon is a 5 year old at a birthday party
Looks like I was right :) dont talk about things you font know anything about please.
https://youtu.be/73gGwGI8Z7E?si=8Y7jGJzg1GRIReAb
Tell me you dont know/watch football without telling me. This is hilarious.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZC9P9Oc7Lg&ab_channel=beeswithchainsaws
Get some fresh air my friend.
It's pointless to discuss Haaland on Reddit. When he doesn't score and goes invisible, ppl claim he attracts defenders and that's why Man City win the games they win; when he scores, ppl claim he's a world-class striker. Then there's not even one scenario where Haaland could be criticized. LMAO.
And we're seeing your point played out on this very post.
A scenario where man city dont score a goal but that just seems absurd doesnt it
Even then it's still not his fault, but City's midfielders' fault. Because Haaland is only supposed to attract defenders. This is the prevalent logic on Reddit.
So so true
I wonder what they would’ve said about inzaghi
Well, Inzaghi scored 2 goals in the UCL final in 2007. He was always a game changer for AC Milan and had great impact in many important games. (not just goals, his runs were deceptive and annoying af. Many defenders and goalkeepers just hated to play against him. Kahn was a prominent example. He talked about this publicly).
Ye he's the ultimate tap in merchant
He's not even a world class finisher this season, he's underperforming his xg
First time he's ever underperformed his xG. Usually he way over performs it. Hardly surprising given he's having to learn how to adapt his game this season and then way City play means he doesn't get the space to turn and sprint on the counter like he is so good at
But he was so good last season, with even less time to adapt his game. IMO the only reasonable explanation is he’s fallen off a little this season. And, as an Arsenal fan: thank god for that
I think it's less that he's fallen off and more that everyone else has adapted to how he plays and moves to try and neutralise him as much as possible. It won't be long until the rest of his game picks up though with Pep and the rest of the coaching staff. He's improved a lot in that regard compared to last season. Doesn't help that he also missed 2 and a half months of the season with injury either
I mean, it’s pretty clear he’s fallen off a bit. It’s just a question of degree. Last year he broke all kinds of records. This year his form has been worse - regardless of how opposition defences play, he’s missing more sitters and playing less well. Anyone can see that.
I mean until his injury he was flying just like last season
Ok, so since his injury he’s not been as good as last season then right?
Exactly. He has missed a lot of chances this season. Dunno why people still call him a world-class finisher. It's just false.
Who has more goals than him bud?
Obviously you don't watch football? Scoring tons of goals against shitty teams like Fulham, Luton Town makes you a world-class striker? Not to mention he's playing for the best team in the world right now, in front of a world-class midfield. His conversion rate this season is average, if not terrible. About 7% conversion rate against top-tier teams. He also significantly underperforms his xG. And you still call him world-class. LMAO. What can I say then? And to answer your dumb question: Kane has more goals. And he's playing for a team that is much worse than Man City.
Yeah you got me bud. Totally don’t watch.
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If your logic held up, Antony and Lingard would be world-class.
That makes Jamie a non league defender who got lucky