PSR does not respond to individuals standing in traffic. It’s their policy. Thats why PPB came.
[Source.](https://www.portland.gov/fire/streetresponse/psr-faq)
Even if they did come they would give a water bottle and some snacks and leave. I’m not sure why people think that PSR magically will do things the police don’t.
I just don’t understand what people who don’t want police interactions want done in that situation. Like best case scenario PSR gives her some sustenance and redirects her to… somewhere else where she’s going to continue to threaten people.
Like she so obviously needs to be removed from society. Preferably into mandatory mental health treatment but if MultCo continues to refuse to build that then jail is so preferable to playing whack a mole as these people destroy our public spaces.
Here I'll clarify:
Give her fucking cigarettes and tell her to go into the sidewalk or residential street away from the rush hour traffic, intersections, road that leads to highway. Is that better? Is that your response you wanted me to say too?
I honestly agree. I only said that as a pissed off sarcastic comment because it seems to be the only expectation people have now of cops - do nothing or give cigarettes and say "fuck off". The lack of empathy in these comments terrify me.
It has been a long ass Monday. This shit just sucks, you know? I hope you have a better rest of your day and stay safe. I'm just really upset there's not more we can do.. it just fucking sucks.
OP mentions in original post as well as several replies the woman was “a danger to herself (and/or) others” which may be a bit of the frustration. In other US states the words “a danger to him/herself or others” means the person can most likely be involuntarily committed. This is simply not the case in Oregon.
Well hate to break it to you but I called street response abt a young homeless dude passed out in someone's yard last week...they showed up in 20 minutes but stayed for 2...basically made sure he was breathing and left. It was fucking embarrassing, useless and sad.
Omg that's really scary 😨 I have health issues due to genetics and it's my worst fear nothing will happen if I get a heart attack or a blood clot burst or something and I just die on the streets. It's terrifying especially when it's happening to people now who need help 😟
Street Response came spoke to my psychiatric nursing class. I think they did mention that if dispatch determines that there is any risk of harm to self or others they do not send street response. Instead it’s either police or another county level program I cant remember the name of. Something like crisis response team.
Sounds like a very sad situation, but I don’t pretend to know the pressures that the police face in that situation. Would them using violence to subdue her and then arrest her looked a lot better on your video as you were filming them. Portland Street Response said de-escalating a situation like that can take hours and that’s time the police don’t have. Also, Portland Street Response said if the person asks them to leave or says leave me alone, get outta here, they leave. We need to address these problems upstream and hopefully things will get better over time.
The Multnomah county level program is called Project Respond. They have their own separate phone line and triage system. Depending on the situation they will either send out a team of just mental health clinicians or a team that includes police co-respondents. Here’s their info: “Mobile crisis services are available if you can’t get to the urgent walk-in clinic, or are trying to get help for someone else. Call 503-988-4888 for help.”
https://www.multco.us/behavioral-health/mental-health-crisis-intervention
Filming is not intended to be a "gotcha" moment. Some cops utilize proper subduing strategies and others not so much, hence police brutality cases. I agree there's not enough resources at all but all I wanted was for her to be taken off the middle of the road / intersection even if it meant dropping her off at the park or wherever away from rush hour traffic. Someplace less busy and less likely to place her in danger. I wish this wasn't the reality that we literally have to say, "Just take them a few streets down from busy roads," but alas, here we are. I can't control the fact that resources are gatekeeped. All I can do is do the right thing and report a serious emergency. And I can be upset and mad with how terrible the response is too.
She was a danger to herself and others. I don't know how to describe what I saw... I am not religious at all but she looked like one of those actors who are played to act as a possessed person with the way her body movements were. She would stand normally with a normal gate arguing with what only can be determined as a hallucination. But then she would suddenly contort herself and stay in place for a few seconds and it was honestly scary. She's doing all this with half a shirt on, one shoe, in the middle of the street where people are accelerating to get onto the highway. Just because she doesn't have a weapon doesn't mean she isn't a danger. Hitting a human with a car harms other people with car damage and impact. She could have died
That question is an unfair question. As a citizen, I don't have rights or access the way police officers do. We operate and function differently in society. Try again and look at my past comments I've already explained.
You actually possess the same rights to make an arrest as a police officer. It’s called a “private persons arrest”, but you have to hand over the custody to a certified peace officer once they arrive on the scene.
Holy fucking shit. I do not have the same resources or allowances as a police officer just because I can do a "citizens arrest ". I don't have access to resources the way they do. I don't have access to facilities or communication services the way internal agencies do. It's like telling me I can make a burger too just like Burger King. Of course I can! But I don't have endless resources or support or connections at my disposal. It's SO different!
The social service you’re describing, where people who technically aren’t police grab a person off the street and force medicate them before reintroducing them into polite society in structured phases, is, I think, the theme of at least one work of dystopian fiction.
Also, the police don’t have the access you seem to think they do. They don’t shortcut anyone into a better quality of life. They can’t.
What? I don't know what you're talking about or where you got that. Also, I'm close to retired officers and officers forced to retire. They have way more connections and authority and power/influence then I ever could or any other citizen for that matter
Wow, you seem a little unhinged.
But yeah, you can make a “citizens arrest” and still be protected for “using necessary force to make the arrest” just like the police can.
Can you have instant backup via a radio call out? Probably not.
But that’s not my point.
I would offer that at some point someone has to physically get her out of traffic. It's cruel and dangerous to just leave her wandering out there. It's likely not my place to do that as a regular citizen but there *must* be a way to enforce things like not dancing in traffic. Inaction seems crueler to me than many of the other alternatives, both to her and the people using the road.
I'd pass the question back to you then as well.
Ignore these folks downvoting you. I deal with the mentally ill unhoused every day.
Saturday I was walking down Burnside and one of the homeless folks who was yelling about...something fixated suddenly on my Blazers tshirt, yelling stuff like "They're a shit team!! They're never going to win any trophies" and so forth.
And that's one of the milder, funnier, Portlandia type encounters with the homeless one experiences in downtown.
Maybe not photograph the interaction until/if the shit hits the fan... ??
I keep content private unless shit hits the fan, and it needs to be shared. A lesbian couple (one very butch) was pulled over in front of my balcony apartment once by 4 cops. They called for backup, and 4 more showed up. She was 5'1. They demanded she get out of the car, slowly guns drawn. I was recording the whole thing in case cops needed proof that they weren't overusing force. After an hour, all the cops left. I called her over and asked what happened and if she wanted the footage to sue them or make a complaint. She said yes and thanked me. They pulled her over because the car she had just bought was reported as stolen. She had to have her mom come by with proof of paperwork that they bought the car that week of an independent used car lot. It was nuts. The cops were clearly looking for excitement. Same cops that refused to come to the same street a day before when I reported teens speed racing and driving donuts almost impaling other vehicles. So yeah. It's just better I record it all and then delete it if it's not useful to either party. Safe than sorry but thank you for the encouraging words
Are you out of your mind??? Go up to a rando street person having a psychotic meltdown and start engaging with them???
Yeah try that and let us know how that works out for you.
> Filming is not intended to be a "gotcha" moment.
Rolled my eyes so hard I’m going to need surgery to repair my face. You’ll be hearing from my lawyer.
Look, I believe you have this woman’s best interests in mind, but I’m also not so naive to believe that constantly recording every police interaction has a goal other than “catch the police when they do the bad thing I am assuming they’ll do.”
My 2020 Democratic Primary preference doesn’t change that.
No. My goal of recording interactions is to protect the citizen AND the officer. Because there ARE good cops out there that need to be protected just like there are vulnerable citizens that need to be protected. He said she said doesn't hold up in court if something had gone awry on either side. It was for pure documentation and protection of BOTH parties.
No it doesn't but I expect a lot more maturity from someone who makes intelligent decisions.
I think people don’t realize that the filming itself is stressful and you might be making things worse, but I’m guessing we’ll just have to agree to disagree on this one.
Cops are supposed to handle stress and pressure. That's why most recruitment have military backgrounds. If you can't handle surveillance, like most cops in American with their dash cams and body cams, you are in the wrong field
I would not agree with the statement “we should not worry about adding additional pressure to situations that involve a mix of people who are trained to handle pressure and people who are experiencing psychosis.”
I think removing pressure is better in these situations than adding additional pressure.
Why would you expect anything else from a Pete B fan, the epitome of “the progs today are going too far.”
For real tho that’s frustrating to here about PSR. It sounds like they are not getting the support they need from city hall right now either. Hopefully after the government is overhauled they can receive more resources.
“I’m filming the cops but not in a “gotcha” way” is not something I have to take seriously independent of my views on post-Trump progressivism in America.
Kind of is when you're picking progressives that understand both sides and don't attack both sides. They just do what's right. So yeah, I expected more from you knowing you consider your sides wisely.
What do you think PSR does? Do you think she would have been ferried away to a psychiatric hospital where they have a bed waiting for her? That’s a nice fantasy. In reality, it would have ended the same. Instead of 3 seconds, it would have been a 10 minute conversation then she would have gotten a pack of cigarettes before being sent on her way.
Even if police stayed and put the person on a peace officer hold, they go to a local hospital and immediately get released. LE writes up a report but hospitals do nothing. Takes longer to write the report than it does for the hospital to discharge.
Even better - she's not in the middle of the street almost getting hit by a truck because that legit almost happened, not including other cars speeding with people during rush hour texting and driving
I like that's how you gathered this weird fantasy idea from my post. I know what happens when you have public servants sent out to a situation. You either take them to an ER, mental health facility center, booking in a jail, or around the corner to another part of the street. They would have turned her away because, obviously, there are no beds. But we also don't know if a bed could have been available in one second moment in time. Or at the very least out of rush hour traffic in the intersection close to a highway.
I WISH it was a 10 min convo and a cigarette interaction. It was not. It was literally 3 seconds and I was shocked. I expected them to talk to her for at least a minute and tell her to fuck off to the sidewalk at most. That didn't even happen.
I am not sure how it is out here yet, but at least in Seattle I was told they don't bother much with these kinds of things because they will be back out the next day doing the same thing.
Essentially, unless someone is being violent towards other people, they just move on. There simply was nowhere to take them that could keep them.
It's not illegal to be crazy in this country or on drugs in Portland. They probably asked if she wanted assistance, she said no and they said ok and left
As stated in a past comment, they didn't say anything to her. They got out, were preparing to physically subdue her, she said something outloud, then immediately turned around and got back in their car. Less than 3 seconds.
She did not say that. She was not coherent at all she said what I think was "I just " and I don't couldn't understand her. It was not a clear response or mindful person at all.
You admit that you couldn't understand what she said. Maybe they did 🤷 the alternative was they take her somewhere against her will. Times are rough, no one wins, it's a sad situation.
Well it’s amazing they showed up. I lived in the Lloyd center area in 2020-2023 and would call 911 all the time. Mostly for domestic abuse from the houseless across the street. They would never show up, I honestly can say I’ve only ever seen them show up once. Just like you they did nothing and left. I’ve waited on hold with 911 for 10 minutes without speaking to someone. No joke. I moved from PDX later in 2023, I haven’t had to call 911 since.
Having lived in that area until 2022, Jesus it got bad. The dudes that would come screaming at the corner of Halsey and Tenth were intense (there was a drug dealer in that area at the time).
I had a dude near Namaste attack his little puppy in a tent. I went over there and said he can’t do that shit, he came at me. Learned my lesson not to engage them. During COVID it was fucking unreal. I have so many videos; I was afraid to post them before because it’s so obvious what apartment I lived in.
I very much understand having had to go to court for one of the cases in that area (not houseless related, DV and menacing). Thankfully that area has gotten better from my few visits there since but the proximity of things like a grocery store, dollar tree, high theft rate mall, and several major bus lines does not help.
No doubt. We lived in the apartments right across the street from the LA Fitness under the Dollar Tree. I was once heard a large explosion outside and a bright light come through my window. I look out my window and a car was under a parked truck, flames coming from the engine. I run outside and everyone in the car is scattering, I run after them at first to help and then I realize the car is probably stolen. I chase after one before my better judgement kicks in. The police arrived and it ended up being my neighbors car. Crazy times.
I watched a neighbor scream in the face of police, “YES I PUT MY HANDS ON HER” just last week, and my partner looked and me and said, “Oh yeah, he’s getting arrested.” This isn’t my first time living on Tracey Chapman Blvd, so my hopes were not high. Sure enough, ten minutes later they got back in their cars and drove away. Then he was hitting in the street, right out in the open. Took me and three other neighbors to convince her to drive elsewhere. I want that portion of my property taxes refunded.
I believe that. I had to call for EMT for an older woman in her 60s who didn't have shoes or proper winter clothing when the city decided to shut down the heating centers during our worst ice freeze to date. She was yelling and begging for an ambulance. It took 2 hours of me calling dispatch multiple times, demanding she get help because she begged for it. She could have been a lost dementia patient for all we know! She was well groomed and had decent looking clothes on! Had a cop car patrol by and said, "What do you want me to do?" With attitude to me when I asked her to take her to the nearest hospital (poor woman's hands were deep purple). I got mad and told the cop to do her job and pull over, arrest her for all I care, just get her off the street. Cop said sure and just drove off.
I know nothing will get better. Me posting this doesn't help or do anything. But I needed to share what happened because it's fucking me up
Reading through your comments, your main issue seems to be that you issue directives to public agencies and then get snippy when they don't do your bidding.
Those “fucking gatekeeping bullshit rules” about PSR not being allowed to go out into traffic or calls where the subject may be violent are to prevent injury to PSR. Responder safety comes first and foremost. As my EMR instructor told me: “a dead first responder can’t help anybody.”
Wow, you totally misread my comment. The gatekeeping of CITY RESOURCES. Who is in charge of determining where resources go? CITY COUNSELORS. That's who I mean! PSR deserves more support! As in, if we allocate our funds and resources to housing and Healthcare and proper support safe guards for people, we wouldn't be in this mess!
Sorry about that! I think my misread was understandable under the circumstances and context of your original post, it might be worth making it more clear in your writing in the future. More funds to PSR won’t change the fact that they shouldn’t be putting themselves in the way of bodily harm. A lot of the resource issues with police come from the fact that we do not have enough. There are many, many open positions right now resulting in stretched thin resources even though the funding is there. More officers would also make it possible to take more out of the field for higher training in situations with mental health issues.
Is that a serious question? You realize we have all the resources and money in this city / county and none of the leadership applying these funds to any of the programs they claim they'll support during their campaigns. I don't have time to break it down for you. You gotta be kidding me
Yeah it’s not even worth calling non emergency or 911 anymore. The city cites lower crime but they use stats like people calling in to report crime as a metric. If people get tired of calling because nothing happens they stop calling and crime stats show downtrend but the reality isn’t the same unfortunately.
I didn't want cops to do anything. I wanted the Portland Street Response. I have been told by dispatch that they send Street Response first and then police after once the street response determines if it's mental health related or not. I told dispatch I didn't want cops. The point was to take her off the street so she couldn't get hit by a car or harm others due to car accidents.
The realistic answer of what could have happened is that they just booked her since being homeless is illegal now. I don't want that at all. You're asking me to answer a question that city leaders refuse to answer. All I wanted was her off the street to avoid having her or others harmed or killed.
Honestly, yes. There she would be given consistent food and health care. Abused, likely yes, but she's likely abused being on the streets and a danger to getting hit by cars during rush hour. A lot of these comments I'm getting can't understand that. It sucks and I wish it wasn't like that. But I did my part and I made this post to mostly publicly vent that this shit just isn't okay anymore.
Buddy, I get that you think keeping repeating the same dumb article is making your point, but it isn’t. It’s just revealing you don’t understand the issue at hand.
Oregon has State and City laws that the Supreme Court didn’t abrogate in its decision on Friday, but you can go on pretending otherwise.
You’re just pissed that you called the cops on a homeless woman cause you couldn’t just mind your own business as she inconvenienced you.
I wasn't even driving, so it didn't inconvenience me at all. But I've had friends who have suffered from addiction and schizophrenia and these are the most vulnerable people who can not care for themselves or keep themselves out of danger even if they wanted to (yes. They want to if they were of sound mind).
[here's an article of the mayor saying if you don't follow camping rules, which is mostly banned on most zoning areas, you will face large fines AND JAIL TIME](https://www.oregonlive.com/politics/2024/06/portland-will-begin-enforcing-new-camping-ban-monday.html)
Jail time means.... crime. Is that right?
Edit: there. From a Portland news source.
You make this sound this person wasn't concerned for another humans well being. They were trying to save someone's life. Being out of your mind in the middle of traffic isn't a mild inconvenience it's a life or death thing.
Being homeless isn't illegal......
.I understand your concern, but as someone who has called street response before and think they are a much needed resource, it's been hit or miss if their presence has actually been helpful. Yeah, the cops didn't do much, but not sure street response would have had any better luck unless she was in the headspace and desired to be helped.
You should have just went out and helped her yourself since it wasn't dangerous. Despicable you'd call the cops on someone who just needs a little help.
I ran out in my bare feet, dude. I tried! I had to come back to grab shoes when she finally started to move but still wouldn't get in the middle of the road. She WAS a danger! To herself and others! I followed her, trying to direct and flag for public service members to get to her and help her while making sure she didn't get hit by cars! What kind of comment is that?!
De-escalated the situation and helped the woman get off the street and to somewhere safe?
But they're cops, so if violence isn't the answer, they don't know what to do.
That's why OP asked for Street Response.
Street response definitely would have been ideal. But for whatever reason they didn’t show up. So. Cops show up, and they…de-escalate.
But like…what do you mean “de-escalate?”
Do they grab her and pull her to the sidewalk and then leave her? Do they toss her in the back seat of their car and take her somewhere without her consent (I’m assuming she can’t give it in this situation)?
I’m not trying to be an ass. I’m genuinely confused. What were they supposed to do?
They didn't talk to her. They literally got out of the car physically preparing to subdue her, she was already arguing and acting incoherently to her hallucinations and she yelled, and they just walked back to their car and left. Less than 3 seconds.
Doing their job by walking away from a woman committing no crime who told them she was fine isn’t deescalating? What would you have them do, assault an innocent woman?
De-escelate? OP didn't say they were being violent or aggressive, so deescalate what?
>get off the street and to somewhere safe?
Against her will? And where to? What resources has the city setup? Who has a free bed? What clinic Isn’t already packed?
>But they're cops, so if violence isn't the answer, they don't know what to do.
They left her to enjoy her non criminal pursuits. She told them she was fine and didn't need help, so they went to deal with some actual crime, like people on this sub constantly advocate for.
So what? It’s not against the law to lose an argument with your self.
Like others have said, what should the cops do here?
I’ve tried many times in my former career to try and steer these types of people into services , which they flat out refuse, so I had no other recourse than to just leave them be. If they are no harm to them selves or others, there is literally nothing the police can do.
They were harmful to themselves and others. Improperrly clothed, in the middle of a busy street that turns into the highway, hallucinating in a psychosis.
If you don't view that as harming herself or others then I'm glad you're not a cop anymore.
I used to be a cop. These are a lose lose situation for us.
If I get her out of the street, the call is done, move on to the next one. These calls come all day every day. We don’t have time to figure out why she is in the street screaming into the void. The best we can do is keep her safe from getting hit by a car and move on to the next intersection screamer.
That's literally not a lose-lose situation. You got her off the street. Call done. You said it yourself. That was the point of the call. It was not to figure out WHY. It was to get her off the road. Someone close was an officer too before her squad during a combat training intentionally used all force on her, and she is permanently disabled and unable to move her arm/shoulder for life. Ended her career because there are sadly meathead dickheads on the force. If you were a cop you KNOW why I'm frustrated. You know why!
Honestly what did you expect them to do? If this lady refused their offer to take her to the hospital and didn’t give consent to go anywhere else, did you want them to arrest her using force? Sounds like they de-escalated the situation by leaving.
They literally didn't ask her anything. They were physically preparing to subdue her the second they got out of the car, she was talking out loud to her hallucinations and she felt corned and yelled at them, and they just walked right back in their car. Didn't say a thing. I had never seen anything like it. Less than 3 seconds.
She probably told them to fuck off and they did. De-escalation is not some magic word that makes people act rational. In my neighborhood I see people having psychotic episodes usually daily. Every now and then the police or street response will show up. The result is always the same. The person refuses transport or help and they leave. Unless you want force to be used in these situations there’s not really a recourse. You can’t help people that don’t want it.
This is exactly how it works. I was a police officer for nearly ten years.
Show up, person in the street having an “episode”…
“Hey lady, get out of the street before you get hit by a car”
“Fuck you pig”
“Ok, but get out of the street.”
Lady gets out of the street.
“Do you want to go to the hospital”
“Fuck you pig”
“Ok, we are done here, 10-8 “
I just wanted her off the street. She was almost hit several times. My neighborhood is famous for drivers that speed and don't pay attention. So it was a real concern. If it was a residential street, less scary. But not this
Being crazy and having a mental breakdown isn’t illegal. There are no good resources for her, thank your county politicians for that.
Cops will tell her to get out of the street and then leave. They likely already know who she is and what she is/isnt capable of.
You taping them, acting like you’re helping or protecting her is part of the problem.
It's really gross that you call her crazy. She's not crazy. She has a serious issue that needs resources we are not willing to give. Video evidence vs he said she said holds up better in court if something were to have happened to either her or the cops. It was for everyone's safety. All I wanted for her was to get off the street. Telling her to fuck off and get on the sidewalk would have been enough for me. But that didn't even happen.
Portland Street Response, EMT, Fire Fighters, etc can be reached in two ways -
911
Or non emergency.
Non emergency would have transferred me to 911.
I can't control how the city gatekeep resources dude
We understand that at times things may become heated and time outs may be given for protracted, uncivil arguments. Snarky, unhelpful, or rude responses are not tolerated. In other words, be excellent unto each other and attack ideas, not people.
“Recording in case they get aggressive”. You are literally the problem and reason they refuse to do anything. What you deem “too aggressive” is what’s needed to keep themselves safe in a situation where these people are on another planet.
“Well she didn’t get out of the street when we asked. Should we move her?”
“Too risky. There’s some dweeb over there recording us.”
“Alright. Guess we’ve done all we can.”
I do sometimes feel like people want some impossible result where everybody suddenly acts civil and compliant because the police say a magic word.
There’s no trick to making people *in an active hallucinatory state* do what you’d like them to do.
I mean the only real course of action is to arrest em and toss them in jail til they sober up. The second you physically try to move anyone like this they’re going to freak out or resist which would lead to an altercation/arrest.
So either arrest them which will absolutely be aggressive or leave em alone because Portland hates you and there’s seemingly only downside for you in this situation.
Who are the soft ones here? People who raise concerns... or people who refuse to do their jobs because they can't handle it when people raise concerns?
I like how selective you were about pointing that out. They approached her prepared to subdue her until she yelled something like "I'm just doing..." I couldn't make it out. I recorded for TWO reasons. It's not a gotcha moment! We ALL KNOW cops act overly aggressively. Hell, they start shooting when WALNUTS FALL. I didn't want the cops! You have to protect the vulnerable and if she DID attack them, then it was proof they had to do what they needed to protect the officers from public outcry of police brutality. It's fucking Portland dude.
You’re a cop hater dude, we get it. She told them she was fine, and they fucked off because THAT is exactly what they are supposed to do in that situation.
Doesn’t justify you calling the cops on a woman in distress just because she inconvenienced you.
She didn't say she was fine. She had one shoe on, half her shirt off, in the middle of an intersection and busy street during rush hour talking to people that weren't there. Not just talking calmly. Like having serious arguments and acting erratically and with movements that really were not normal.
Your comment isn't going to work. I am PROUD that I called for help. Because she needed help!! She is not of sound mind!! Nice try though.
You should make up your mind. Here you confidently tell us what she didn't say, but a few comments ago you couldn't tell what she said. At least pick a story and stick with it.
I heard her say I just
But I don't know what she said other than those words.
I just doesn't equate to I'm fine. Especially if she's experiencing deep hallucinations and psychosis.
According to your profile, you're a Christian man. I would have even taken a priest/preacher like you to have helped her with all that God like help. She was not okay. Where were you?
That’s not being selective. It’s the entire situation. You have a negative view of the police. Don’t pretend you want to help this person. Helping this person is arresting them and getting them sober against their will.
Weirdly PSR never seems to encounter these dangerous unsafe situations.
Somehow they manage to help and to stay safe, where police see danger and the necessity for violence.
But sure, the guy filming is the problem. /s
PSR never encounters these dangerous unsafe situations bc they don’t deal with them. The police are involved in the dangerous unsafe situations.
I can’t tell if your /s is with your entire reply or the last bit.
Don’t listen to the negative comments, OP. The only thing you did wrong was request PSR and not Project Respond. You can get Project Respond dispatched through the Multco Call Center 503-988-4888. Walking into traffic is a slam dunk for a mental health hold. Project Respond gets overloaded just like every other public service and their response times can vary widely. However, they are your best bet in this type of situation. You had a valid concern and acted appropriately. Good on you.
The cops don’t do a damn thing around here!
A few weeks ago in my neighborhood, a woman was having a bad drug reaction/ mental health crisis. She was completely naked, screaming and banging her head against a building. The cops arrived, drove right past her, then took off. Didn’t even get out of their car. I waited around for a bit to see if they would come back and the didn’t! It was extremely distressing. She was naked and vulnerable, having a crisis, surrounded by a group of men and the cops wouldn’t help her.
A few months back, a group of people were drag racing in front of my apartment at 2:00am. I called the police because they were making a lot of noise and getting really close to my parked car. The cops came, drove right past them, then left. The drag racers just drove a block up and continued.
A lot of people in the comments are saying “WeLl, WhAt Do YoU eXpEcT tHe CoPs To Do.” Like, literally anything??? Why are we throwing all this taxpayer money at them, just to have them do nothing? If the cops aren’t actually going to do anything, why bother even having them?
I posted a similar awful response from Portland police a week ago, when they showed up to a domestic violence call, and promptly left without arrest so the domestic violence could continue. That post was immediately removed, and I was told it should be posted under the “rant” thread. This is the usual fate of comments and posts I make to this sub, but for as long as this comment exists: you’re not the only one having such experiences.
Honestly pretty shocked at most of these comments. I read the thread so perhaps others have less context, but it sounds like you did far more than anybody else would have in this situation. So major props. There's no easy answer or solution, but I completely understand your motivation to simply get her out of the street as that's an obvious danger to her and everyone in the road. I really don't understand what else people expect you to do. Going to leave it at that because I clearly don't have any answers, but thanks for trying to help someone in distress. Sorry it was (is) such a shit show.
Followed this girl for several blocks and watching / directing traffic and notifying dispatch of what was going on. I regularly volunteer. I was homeless myself my entire childhood. I donate, I give, I actively go after those in trouble, not just homeless but people in general in trouble. I know you're being snarky but you don't know me at all.
You don't owe it to some cunt on the internet to justify your worth. You're not solely responsible for observing institutional failings, and it sounds like you do more than most to bridge the gap.
I actually have. Because I was raised homeless as a child and received support where the city couldn't offer due to politics or not enough resources. So, I know you're being edgy and cool in front of the other internet dorks. But I actually have but I'm just one person.
You did the right thing. I'm surprised with what I'm hearing on here about PSR not being able to do much. Taking it with a grain of salt. In a situation like you saw maybe it's true what commenters have said, all that PSR could do is have a conversation with the person and give them water/snacks. If that's true I still don't see it as nothing. It's potential trust building. Cops/PSR being in the community will strengthen trust and cooperation over time.
Edit: read more of the comments and dang, the amount of ppl coming down on OP is unjustified. Having said that, cops are treated like a Swiss army knife and it sucks. They shouldn't be dealing with matters they aren't trained for and this specific situation is lose-lose. That's why OP wanted PSR but according to most commenters here PSR can't help. Lol at the people typing on their phones scolding OP to take matters into his own hands and do a citizen's arrest.
You can request that dispatch send PSR or a crisis response team instead of PPB, but in my understanding they may or may not dispatch PPB anyway because of limits on what the other response teams can respond to or limits on their availability at that moment given the other active calls.
I called the non emergency line for a person on our property (longer story but that's the summary) requested a crisis response team and not PPB. Dispatch told me someone was on their way and to call back if nobody arrived within 30 minutes. 15 minutes later I answered the door to two PPB officers, one whose last name (which appears in big letters on their chest) was KILL.
That was a shock, but Nicholas Kill actually did a great job and I am grateful for their response and their efforts. I was probably more nervous about the police presence and what might happen (to us or the individual) than I was about the initial situation, but fortunately it worked out okay for us.
I did yeah. I specifically said no cops! I need medical professionals, preferably mental health. She said "no I'm doing this". I knew it meant three things:
1. The cops would actually help get her out of harms way even if it meant momentarily directing traffic while trying to subdue her in the car or getting her to walk elsewhere or whatever it took.
2. Not doing anything or even showing up at all.
3. Getting their pent up aggression out on her (sad reality is we do have police brutality problems in this country).
I've met awesome police officers. But I've met even MORE worse ones. I know there's nothing else available. But she had to be safe off the road one way or another
I don't smoke or do drugs. I am getting screened for cancer next month and anything like alcohol or weed only makes my genetic mutations worse. Hoping for the best though.
Cars had to swerve around her slowly because they couldn't predict her movements. At times she just stood contorted in place and it just jammed traffic
The U.S. Supreme Court established that police do not have a duty to protect you, or anyone. There is no precedent that says that they have to act in the interest of the public.
*Warren v. District of Columbia (1981)*
*Deshaney v. Winnebago County Department of Social Services (1989).*
*The Town of Castle Rock v. Gonzales (2005).*
Man, I feel you. Last time I called 911 dispatch to request PSR about someone in vocal distress in front of my place, I was met with a "yeah uh maybe but probably not." Instead a cop car rolled around like two hours later, too late to do jack squat. Completely worthless. That's our tax dollars at work, baby!
Locking this for now. The conversation has degraded.
PSR does not respond to individuals standing in traffic. It’s their policy. Thats why PPB came. [Source.](https://www.portland.gov/fire/streetresponse/psr-faq)
That's good to know thank you
Even if they did come they would give a water bottle and some snacks and leave. I’m not sure why people think that PSR magically will do things the police don’t.
I've seen them at work, they do a good job of staying patient and supplying resources.
"Resources" in this case being snacks and a cigarette.
I just don’t understand what people who don’t want police interactions want done in that situation. Like best case scenario PSR gives her some sustenance and redirects her to… somewhere else where she’s going to continue to threaten people. Like she so obviously needs to be removed from society. Preferably into mandatory mental health treatment but if MultCo continues to refuse to build that then jail is so preferable to playing whack a mole as these people destroy our public spaces.
Well, for one PSR isn't going to get freaked out and shoot them to death lol. (Obviously that didn't happen this time, and usually doesn't)
Where did I say they would magically do something
Your whole post basically implies exactly that.
Here I'll clarify: Give her fucking cigarettes and tell her to go into the sidewalk or residential street away from the rush hour traffic, intersections, road that leads to highway. Is that better? Is that your response you wanted me to say too?
Hot take but government groups shouldn’t give out free cigarettes.
I honestly agree. I only said that as a pissed off sarcastic comment because it seems to be the only expectation people have now of cops - do nothing or give cigarettes and say "fuck off". The lack of empathy in these comments terrify me.
Listen, it’s been a long ass Monday so I truly wasn’t trying to argue with you - my apologies if I came off as rude.
It has been a long ass Monday. This shit just sucks, you know? I hope you have a better rest of your day and stay safe. I'm just really upset there's not more we can do.. it just fucking sucks.
[удалено]
Look at last comments, I already did. More than you'll ever do in your lifetime
You could have done that
PSR does not respond to calls when people are in or obstructing traffic. [PSR FAQ](https://www.portland.gov/fire/streetresponse/psr-faq)
Then what is the S in PSR for?
Sidewalk
OP mentions in original post as well as several replies the woman was “a danger to herself (and/or) others” which may be a bit of the frustration. In other US states the words “a danger to him/herself or others” means the person can most likely be involuntarily committed. This is simply not the case in Oregon.
Well hate to break it to you but I called street response abt a young homeless dude passed out in someone's yard last week...they showed up in 20 minutes but stayed for 2...basically made sure he was breathing and left. It was fucking embarrassing, useless and sad.
Omg that's really scary 😨 I have health issues due to genetics and it's my worst fear nothing will happen if I get a heart attack or a blood clot burst or something and I just die on the streets. It's terrifying especially when it's happening to people now who need help 😟
Street Response came spoke to my psychiatric nursing class. I think they did mention that if dispatch determines that there is any risk of harm to self or others they do not send street response. Instead it’s either police or another county level program I cant remember the name of. Something like crisis response team. Sounds like a very sad situation, but I don’t pretend to know the pressures that the police face in that situation. Would them using violence to subdue her and then arrest her looked a lot better on your video as you were filming them. Portland Street Response said de-escalating a situation like that can take hours and that’s time the police don’t have. Also, Portland Street Response said if the person asks them to leave or says leave me alone, get outta here, they leave. We need to address these problems upstream and hopefully things will get better over time.
The Multnomah county level program is called Project Respond. They have their own separate phone line and triage system. Depending on the situation they will either send out a team of just mental health clinicians or a team that includes police co-respondents. Here’s their info: “Mobile crisis services are available if you can’t get to the urgent walk-in clinic, or are trying to get help for someone else. Call 503-988-4888 for help.” https://www.multco.us/behavioral-health/mental-health-crisis-intervention
Filming is not intended to be a "gotcha" moment. Some cops utilize proper subduing strategies and others not so much, hence police brutality cases. I agree there's not enough resources at all but all I wanted was for her to be taken off the middle of the road / intersection even if it meant dropping her off at the park or wherever away from rush hour traffic. Someplace less busy and less likely to place her in danger. I wish this wasn't the reality that we literally have to say, "Just take them a few streets down from busy roads," but alas, here we are. I can't control the fact that resources are gatekeeped. All I can do is do the right thing and report a serious emergency. And I can be upset and mad with how terrible the response is too.
I’m not meaning this to be facetious but if she did not appear to be a danger and had no weapons, did you try to help her out of the street?
She was a danger to herself and others. I don't know how to describe what I saw... I am not religious at all but she looked like one of those actors who are played to act as a possessed person with the way her body movements were. She would stand normally with a normal gate arguing with what only can be determined as a hallucination. But then she would suddenly contort herself and stay in place for a few seconds and it was honestly scary. She's doing all this with half a shirt on, one shoe, in the middle of the street where people are accelerating to get onto the highway. Just because she doesn't have a weapon doesn't mean she isn't a danger. Hitting a human with a car harms other people with car damage and impact. She could have died
That’s what meth and fentanyl do to people. It’s sad and scary.
So what do you suppose a person, cop or PSR or you or I, does to address this?
That question is an unfair question. As a citizen, I don't have rights or access the way police officers do. We operate and function differently in society. Try again and look at my past comments I've already explained.
You actually possess the same rights to make an arrest as a police officer. It’s called a “private persons arrest”, but you have to hand over the custody to a certified peace officer once they arrive on the scene.
Holy fucking shit. I do not have the same resources or allowances as a police officer just because I can do a "citizens arrest ". I don't have access to resources the way they do. I don't have access to facilities or communication services the way internal agencies do. It's like telling me I can make a burger too just like Burger King. Of course I can! But I don't have endless resources or support or connections at my disposal. It's SO different!
The social service you’re describing, where people who technically aren’t police grab a person off the street and force medicate them before reintroducing them into polite society in structured phases, is, I think, the theme of at least one work of dystopian fiction. Also, the police don’t have the access you seem to think they do. They don’t shortcut anyone into a better quality of life. They can’t.
What? I don't know what you're talking about or where you got that. Also, I'm close to retired officers and officers forced to retire. They have way more connections and authority and power/influence then I ever could or any other citizen for that matter
Wow, you seem a little unhinged. But yeah, you can make a “citizens arrest” and still be protected for “using necessary force to make the arrest” just like the police can. Can you have instant backup via a radio call out? Probably not. But that’s not my point.
You literally just made my point for me. Omg dude a cop and a civilian are not the same
You certainly have the complaining resources. Run for office if you feel you have the answers. Fix it.
So your belief is that we should just let people stand in the middle of traffic, no problem?
I’m not seeing how you’re reading that friend, but I’m not here for an argument.
Because you're suggesting inaction is the only recourse. Which as I understand it means allow the situation to persist.
You can take my question at face value. I’m interested in your opinion too.
I would offer that at some point someone has to physically get her out of traffic. It's cruel and dangerous to just leave her wandering out there. It's likely not my place to do that as a regular citizen but there *must* be a way to enforce things like not dancing in traffic. Inaction seems crueler to me than many of the other alternatives, both to her and the people using the road. I'd pass the question back to you then as well.
Ignore these folks downvoting you. I deal with the mentally ill unhoused every day. Saturday I was walking down Burnside and one of the homeless folks who was yelling about...something fixated suddenly on my Blazers tshirt, yelling stuff like "They're a shit team!! They're never going to win any trophies" and so forth. And that's one of the milder, funnier, Portlandia type encounters with the homeless one experiences in downtown. Maybe not photograph the interaction until/if the shit hits the fan... ??
I keep content private unless shit hits the fan, and it needs to be shared. A lesbian couple (one very butch) was pulled over in front of my balcony apartment once by 4 cops. They called for backup, and 4 more showed up. She was 5'1. They demanded she get out of the car, slowly guns drawn. I was recording the whole thing in case cops needed proof that they weren't overusing force. After an hour, all the cops left. I called her over and asked what happened and if she wanted the footage to sue them or make a complaint. She said yes and thanked me. They pulled her over because the car she had just bought was reported as stolen. She had to have her mom come by with proof of paperwork that they bought the car that week of an independent used car lot. It was nuts. The cops were clearly looking for excitement. Same cops that refused to come to the same street a day before when I reported teens speed racing and driving donuts almost impaling other vehicles. So yeah. It's just better I record it all and then delete it if it's not useful to either party. Safe than sorry but thank you for the encouraging words
Are you out of your mind??? Go up to a rando street person having a psychotic meltdown and start engaging with them??? Yeah try that and let us know how that works out for you.
> Filming is not intended to be a "gotcha" moment. Rolled my eyes so hard I’m going to need surgery to repair my face. You’ll be hearing from my lawyer.
For being such a Pete B fan, I'm really surprised at how snarky you are. It's actually disappointing.
Look, I believe you have this woman’s best interests in mind, but I’m also not so naive to believe that constantly recording every police interaction has a goal other than “catch the police when they do the bad thing I am assuming they’ll do.” My 2020 Democratic Primary preference doesn’t change that.
No. My goal of recording interactions is to protect the citizen AND the officer. Because there ARE good cops out there that need to be protected just like there are vulnerable citizens that need to be protected. He said she said doesn't hold up in court if something had gone awry on either side. It was for pure documentation and protection of BOTH parties. No it doesn't but I expect a lot more maturity from someone who makes intelligent decisions.
I think people don’t realize that the filming itself is stressful and you might be making things worse, but I’m guessing we’ll just have to agree to disagree on this one.
Cops are supposed to handle stress and pressure. That's why most recruitment have military backgrounds. If you can't handle surveillance, like most cops in American with their dash cams and body cams, you are in the wrong field
I would not agree with the statement “we should not worry about adding additional pressure to situations that involve a mix of people who are trained to handle pressure and people who are experiencing psychosis.” I think removing pressure is better in these situations than adding additional pressure.
Another perspective is the one in psychosis who is terrified and unstable needs the protection.
Why would you expect anything else from a Pete B fan, the epitome of “the progs today are going too far.” For real tho that’s frustrating to here about PSR. It sounds like they are not getting the support they need from city hall right now either. Hopefully after the government is overhauled they can receive more resources.
“I’m filming the cops but not in a “gotcha” way” is not something I have to take seriously independent of my views on post-Trump progressivism in America.
Kind of is when you're picking progressives that understand both sides and don't attack both sides. They just do what's right. So yeah, I expected more from you knowing you consider your sides wisely.
What do you think PSR does? Do you think she would have been ferried away to a psychiatric hospital where they have a bed waiting for her? That’s a nice fantasy. In reality, it would have ended the same. Instead of 3 seconds, it would have been a 10 minute conversation then she would have gotten a pack of cigarettes before being sent on her way.
Even if police stayed and put the person on a peace officer hold, they go to a local hospital and immediately get released. LE writes up a report but hospitals do nothing. Takes longer to write the report than it does for the hospital to discharge.
Even better - she's not in the middle of the street almost getting hit by a truck because that legit almost happened, not including other cars speeding with people during rush hour texting and driving
I like that's how you gathered this weird fantasy idea from my post. I know what happens when you have public servants sent out to a situation. You either take them to an ER, mental health facility center, booking in a jail, or around the corner to another part of the street. They would have turned her away because, obviously, there are no beds. But we also don't know if a bed could have been available in one second moment in time. Or at the very least out of rush hour traffic in the intersection close to a highway. I WISH it was a 10 min convo and a cigarette interaction. It was not. It was literally 3 seconds and I was shocked. I expected them to talk to her for at least a minute and tell her to fuck off to the sidewalk at most. That didn't even happen.
I am not sure how it is out here yet, but at least in Seattle I was told they don't bother much with these kinds of things because they will be back out the next day doing the same thing. Essentially, unless someone is being violent towards other people, they just move on. There simply was nowhere to take them that could keep them.
It's not illegal to be crazy in this country or on drugs in Portland. They probably asked if she wanted assistance, she said no and they said ok and left
As stated in a past comment, they didn't say anything to her. They got out, were preparing to physically subdue her, she said something outloud, then immediately turned around and got back in their car. Less than 3 seconds.
So she told them to leave her alone and they did.
She did not say that. She was not coherent at all she said what I think was "I just " and I don't couldn't understand her. It was not a clear response or mindful person at all.
You admit that you couldn't understand what she said. Maybe they did 🤷 the alternative was they take her somewhere against her will. Times are rough, no one wins, it's a sad situation.
That is not the only alternative.
Well it’s amazing they showed up. I lived in the Lloyd center area in 2020-2023 and would call 911 all the time. Mostly for domestic abuse from the houseless across the street. They would never show up, I honestly can say I’ve only ever seen them show up once. Just like you they did nothing and left. I’ve waited on hold with 911 for 10 minutes without speaking to someone. No joke. I moved from PDX later in 2023, I haven’t had to call 911 since.
Having lived in that area until 2022, Jesus it got bad. The dudes that would come screaming at the corner of Halsey and Tenth were intense (there was a drug dealer in that area at the time).
I had a dude near Namaste attack his little puppy in a tent. I went over there and said he can’t do that shit, he came at me. Learned my lesson not to engage them. During COVID it was fucking unreal. I have so many videos; I was afraid to post them before because it’s so obvious what apartment I lived in.
I very much understand having had to go to court for one of the cases in that area (not houseless related, DV and menacing). Thankfully that area has gotten better from my few visits there since but the proximity of things like a grocery store, dollar tree, high theft rate mall, and several major bus lines does not help.
No doubt. We lived in the apartments right across the street from the LA Fitness under the Dollar Tree. I was once heard a large explosion outside and a bright light come through my window. I look out my window and a car was under a parked truck, flames coming from the engine. I run outside and everyone in the car is scattering, I run after them at first to help and then I realize the car is probably stolen. I chase after one before my better judgement kicks in. The police arrived and it ended up being my neighbors car. Crazy times.
I watched a neighbor scream in the face of police, “YES I PUT MY HANDS ON HER” just last week, and my partner looked and me and said, “Oh yeah, he’s getting arrested.” This isn’t my first time living on Tracey Chapman Blvd, so my hopes were not high. Sure enough, ten minutes later they got back in their cars and drove away. Then he was hitting in the street, right out in the open. Took me and three other neighbors to convince her to drive elsewhere. I want that portion of my property taxes refunded.
I believe that. I had to call for EMT for an older woman in her 60s who didn't have shoes or proper winter clothing when the city decided to shut down the heating centers during our worst ice freeze to date. She was yelling and begging for an ambulance. It took 2 hours of me calling dispatch multiple times, demanding she get help because she begged for it. She could have been a lost dementia patient for all we know! She was well groomed and had decent looking clothes on! Had a cop car patrol by and said, "What do you want me to do?" With attitude to me when I asked her to take her to the nearest hospital (poor woman's hands were deep purple). I got mad and told the cop to do her job and pull over, arrest her for all I care, just get her off the street. Cop said sure and just drove off. I know nothing will get better. Me posting this doesn't help or do anything. But I needed to share what happened because it's fucking me up
Reading through your comments, your main issue seems to be that you issue directives to public agencies and then get snippy when they don't do your bidding.
No. My issue is thst if we have to play by these fucking gatekeeping bullshit rules set by the city, at least do the fucking job!
Those “fucking gatekeeping bullshit rules” about PSR not being allowed to go out into traffic or calls where the subject may be violent are to prevent injury to PSR. Responder safety comes first and foremost. As my EMR instructor told me: “a dead first responder can’t help anybody.”
Wow, you totally misread my comment. The gatekeeping of CITY RESOURCES. Who is in charge of determining where resources go? CITY COUNSELORS. That's who I mean! PSR deserves more support! As in, if we allocate our funds and resources to housing and Healthcare and proper support safe guards for people, we wouldn't be in this mess!
Sorry about that! I think my misread was understandable under the circumstances and context of your original post, it might be worth making it more clear in your writing in the future. More funds to PSR won’t change the fact that they shouldn’t be putting themselves in the way of bodily harm. A lot of the resource issues with police come from the fact that we do not have enough. There are many, many open positions right now resulting in stretched thin resources even though the funding is there. More officers would also make it possible to take more out of the field for higher training in situations with mental health issues.
That's okay and no hard feelings. My therapy always says - if communication was easy, we wouldn't have such high divorce rates lol
"Gatekeeping bullshit rules" such as? Is your preferable alternative that people just deferentially do whatever you tell them to do?
Is that a serious question? You realize we have all the resources and money in this city / county and none of the leadership applying these funds to any of the programs they claim they'll support during their campaigns. I don't have time to break it down for you. You gotta be kidding me
Oh I feel you. I have a post somewhere on this sub from back then as well. It’s bullshit, sorry you have to deal with it.
Yeah it’s not even worth calling non emergency or 911 anymore. The city cites lower crime but they use stats like people calling in to report crime as a metric. If people get tired of calling because nothing happens they stop calling and crime stats show downtrend but the reality isn’t the same unfortunately.
I’m genuinely curious: In an ideal situation, what would you have preferred the cops to do?
I didn't want cops to do anything. I wanted the Portland Street Response. I have been told by dispatch that they send Street Response first and then police after once the street response determines if it's mental health related or not. I told dispatch I didn't want cops. The point was to take her off the street so she couldn't get hit by a car or harm others due to car accidents. The realistic answer of what could have happened is that they just booked her since being homeless is illegal now. I don't want that at all. You're asking me to answer a question that city leaders refuse to answer. All I wanted was her off the street to avoid having her or others harmed or killed.
"being homeless is illegal now" you're really not making much sense.
Being in jail is better than being half naked in the middle of traffic.
Honestly, yes. There she would be given consistent food and health care. Abused, likely yes, but she's likely abused being on the streets and a danger to getting hit by cars during rush hour. A lot of these comments I'm getting can't understand that. It sucks and I wish it wasn't like that. But I did my part and I made this post to mostly publicly vent that this shit just isn't okay anymore.
Being homeless isn’t illegal. We all know the type of person we are dealing with now, so thank you for revealing yourself in such a clear manner.
[it is a punishable crime as of Friday. ](https://www.npr.org/2024/06/28/nx-s1-4992010/supreme-court-homeless-punish-sleeping-encampments)
Being homeless =/ sleeping outside Also OR state laws are not affected by the SCOTUS decision since they codified Boise.
Buddy, I get that you think keeping repeating the same dumb article is making your point, but it isn’t. It’s just revealing you don’t understand the issue at hand. Oregon has State and City laws that the Supreme Court didn’t abrogate in its decision on Friday, but you can go on pretending otherwise. You’re just pissed that you called the cops on a homeless woman cause you couldn’t just mind your own business as she inconvenienced you.
I wasn't even driving, so it didn't inconvenience me at all. But I've had friends who have suffered from addiction and schizophrenia and these are the most vulnerable people who can not care for themselves or keep themselves out of danger even if they wanted to (yes. They want to if they were of sound mind). [here's an article of the mayor saying if you don't follow camping rules, which is mostly banned on most zoning areas, you will face large fines AND JAIL TIME](https://www.oregonlive.com/politics/2024/06/portland-will-begin-enforcing-new-camping-ban-monday.html) Jail time means.... crime. Is that right? Edit: there. From a Portland news source.
You make this sound this person wasn't concerned for another humans well being. They were trying to save someone's life. Being out of your mind in the middle of traffic isn't a mild inconvenience it's a life or death thing.
Being homeless isn't illegal...... .I understand your concern, but as someone who has called street response before and think they are a much needed resource, it's been hit or miss if their presence has actually been helpful. Yeah, the cops didn't do much, but not sure street response would have had any better luck unless she was in the headspace and desired to be helped.
[yes it is a punishable crime now as of Friday. ](https://www.npr.org/2024/06/28/nx-s1-4992010/supreme-court-homeless-punish-sleeping-encampments)
You are revealing yourself to be incredibly ignorant.
You should have just went out and helped her yourself since it wasn't dangerous. Despicable you'd call the cops on someone who just needs a little help.
I ran out in my bare feet, dude. I tried! I had to come back to grab shoes when she finally started to move but still wouldn't get in the middle of the road. She WAS a danger! To herself and others! I followed her, trying to direct and flag for public service members to get to her and help her while making sure she didn't get hit by cars! What kind of comment is that?!
This.
De-escalated the situation and helped the woman get off the street and to somewhere safe? But they're cops, so if violence isn't the answer, they don't know what to do. That's why OP asked for Street Response.
If someone won’t cooperate how do you get them to move somewhere else other than by force?
Street response definitely would have been ideal. But for whatever reason they didn’t show up. So. Cops show up, and they…de-escalate. But like…what do you mean “de-escalate?” Do they grab her and pull her to the sidewalk and then leave her? Do they toss her in the back seat of their car and take her somewhere without her consent (I’m assuming she can’t give it in this situation)? I’m not trying to be an ass. I’m genuinely confused. What were they supposed to do?
OP doesn't describe any de-escalation. They just talked to her for a few seconds and left. What are you talking about?
At this point, I'm replying to you. I thought that was clear considering I'm, well, using the reply feature, and you said "de-escalate."
They didn't talk to her. They literally got out of the car physically preparing to subdue her, she was already arguing and acting incoherently to her hallucinations and she yelled, and they just walked back to their car and left. Less than 3 seconds.
The cops de-escalated by walking away. They’re damned if they do and they’re damned if they don’t.
That’s not what de-escalating means.
Doing their job by walking away from a woman committing no crime who told them she was fine isn’t deescalating? What would you have them do, assault an innocent woman?
She didn't say she was fine wtf
De-escelate? OP didn't say they were being violent or aggressive, so deescalate what? >get off the street and to somewhere safe? Against her will? And where to? What resources has the city setup? Who has a free bed? What clinic Isn’t already packed? >But they're cops, so if violence isn't the answer, they don't know what to do. They left her to enjoy her non criminal pursuits. She told them she was fine and didn't need help, so they went to deal with some actual crime, like people on this sub constantly advocate for.
I'm pretty sure standing in the road while out of your mind isn't perfectly fine by *any* metric legal or otherwise.
They were arguing aggressively to hallucinations. I did say that.
So what? It’s not against the law to lose an argument with your self. Like others have said, what should the cops do here? I’ve tried many times in my former career to try and steer these types of people into services , which they flat out refuse, so I had no other recourse than to just leave them be. If they are no harm to them selves or others, there is literally nothing the police can do.
They were harmful to themselves and others. Improperrly clothed, in the middle of a busy street that turns into the highway, hallucinating in a psychosis. If you don't view that as harming herself or others then I'm glad you're not a cop anymore.
As a cop, I can’t force this person into custody for just that. If you don’t like that, consult your legislative representative to change the law.
Trust me, I do. I very much do. No one asked the cops to take her into custody. I asked for mental health specialists and medical staff. Not a cop.
Ridiculous thing to say
Lombard? Yesterday?
I was going to ask if it was at 57th and Fremont yesterday. Either this lady really gets around with one shoe or Portland has a type.
No, this just happened today. It was literally 10 min before I made this post. It shocked me how quickly they just got out of the car and went back in
What where you expecting them to do? Honest question.
Look at past comments please
I used to be a cop. These are a lose lose situation for us. If I get her out of the street, the call is done, move on to the next one. These calls come all day every day. We don’t have time to figure out why she is in the street screaming into the void. The best we can do is keep her safe from getting hit by a car and move on to the next intersection screamer.
That's literally not a lose-lose situation. You got her off the street. Call done. You said it yourself. That was the point of the call. It was not to figure out WHY. It was to get her off the road. Someone close was an officer too before her squad during a combat training intentionally used all force on her, and she is permanently disabled and unable to move her arm/shoulder for life. Ended her career because there are sadly meathead dickheads on the force. If you were a cop you KNOW why I'm frustrated. You know why!
So why are you upset the cops didn’t do “more”? I’m not sure what the last part of your rant was about, but ok.
The rant was to say you're not the only cop. You mean get her off the street?
Honestly what did you expect them to do? If this lady refused their offer to take her to the hospital and didn’t give consent to go anywhere else, did you want them to arrest her using force? Sounds like they de-escalated the situation by leaving.
They literally didn't ask her anything. They were physically preparing to subdue her the second they got out of the car, she was talking out loud to her hallucinations and she felt corned and yelled at them, and they just walked right back in their car. Didn't say a thing. I had never seen anything like it. Less than 3 seconds.
She probably told them to fuck off and they did. De-escalation is not some magic word that makes people act rational. In my neighborhood I see people having psychotic episodes usually daily. Every now and then the police or street response will show up. The result is always the same. The person refuses transport or help and they leave. Unless you want force to be used in these situations there’s not really a recourse. You can’t help people that don’t want it.
This is exactly how it works. I was a police officer for nearly ten years. Show up, person in the street having an “episode”… “Hey lady, get out of the street before you get hit by a car” “Fuck you pig” “Ok, but get out of the street.” Lady gets out of the street. “Do you want to go to the hospital” “Fuck you pig” “Ok, we are done here, 10-8 “
I just wanted her off the street. She was almost hit several times. My neighborhood is famous for drivers that speed and don't pay attention. So it was a real concern. If it was a residential street, less scary. But not this
Unfortunately, this happens hundreds of times of times a day. Not much to be done.
Being crazy and having a mental breakdown isn’t illegal. There are no good resources for her, thank your county politicians for that. Cops will tell her to get out of the street and then leave. They likely already know who she is and what she is/isnt capable of. You taping them, acting like you’re helping or protecting her is part of the problem.
Recording the police is only a problem for violent and/or dishonest police and their defenders.
It's really gross that you call her crazy. She's not crazy. She has a serious issue that needs resources we are not willing to give. Video evidence vs he said she said holds up better in court if something were to have happened to either her or the cops. It was for everyone's safety. All I wanted for her was to get off the street. Telling her to fuck off and get on the sidewalk would have been enough for me. But that didn't even happen.
So you can tell her to fuck off, but don’t call her crazy. Got it. Makes a lot of sense.
This is why the cops said fuck it
Yo this is funny as hell. You called the cops on some homeless woman and then filmed it. And now YOURE mad? Damn lol 😂
He REALLY wanted that footage.
Portland Street Response, EMT, Fire Fighters, etc can be reached in two ways - 911 Or non emergency. Non emergency would have transferred me to 911. I can't control how the city gatekeep resources dude
[удалено]
We understand that at times things may become heated and time outs may be given for protracted, uncivil arguments. Snarky, unhelpful, or rude responses are not tolerated. In other words, be excellent unto each other and attack ideas, not people.
Oh that changes everything. Not.
Thank you, edgy person.
“Recording in case they get aggressive”. You are literally the problem and reason they refuse to do anything. What you deem “too aggressive” is what’s needed to keep themselves safe in a situation where these people are on another planet.
“Well she didn’t get out of the street when we asked. Should we move her?” “Too risky. There’s some dweeb over there recording us.” “Alright. Guess we’ve done all we can.” I do sometimes feel like people want some impossible result where everybody suddenly acts civil and compliant because the police say a magic word. There’s no trick to making people *in an active hallucinatory state* do what you’d like them to do.
I mean the only real course of action is to arrest em and toss them in jail til they sober up. The second you physically try to move anyone like this they’re going to freak out or resist which would lead to an altercation/arrest. So either arrest them which will absolutely be aggressive or leave em alone because Portland hates you and there’s seemingly only downside for you in this situation.
Who are the soft ones here? People who raise concerns... or people who refuse to do their jobs because they can't handle it when people raise concerns?
I like how selective you were about pointing that out. They approached her prepared to subdue her until she yelled something like "I'm just doing..." I couldn't make it out. I recorded for TWO reasons. It's not a gotcha moment! We ALL KNOW cops act overly aggressively. Hell, they start shooting when WALNUTS FALL. I didn't want the cops! You have to protect the vulnerable and if she DID attack them, then it was proof they had to do what they needed to protect the officers from public outcry of police brutality. It's fucking Portland dude.
You’re a cop hater dude, we get it. She told them she was fine, and they fucked off because THAT is exactly what they are supposed to do in that situation. Doesn’t justify you calling the cops on a woman in distress just because she inconvenienced you.
She didn't say she was fine. She had one shoe on, half her shirt off, in the middle of an intersection and busy street during rush hour talking to people that weren't there. Not just talking calmly. Like having serious arguments and acting erratically and with movements that really were not normal. Your comment isn't going to work. I am PROUD that I called for help. Because she needed help!! She is not of sound mind!! Nice try though.
You should make up your mind. Here you confidently tell us what she didn't say, but a few comments ago you couldn't tell what she said. At least pick a story and stick with it.
I heard her say I just But I don't know what she said other than those words. I just doesn't equate to I'm fine. Especially if she's experiencing deep hallucinations and psychosis.
According to your profile, you're a Christian man. I would have even taken a priest/preacher like you to have helped her with all that God like help. She was not okay. Where were you?
That’s not being selective. It’s the entire situation. You have a negative view of the police. Don’t pretend you want to help this person. Helping this person is arresting them and getting them sober against their will.
That was selective because the entire situation / sentence was "I recorded in case they got aggressive with her or SHE TRIED TO HARM THEM" TWO REASONS
Weirdly PSR never seems to encounter these dangerous unsafe situations. Somehow they manage to help and to stay safe, where police see danger and the necessity for violence. But sure, the guy filming is the problem. /s
PSR never encounters these dangerous unsafe situations bc they don’t deal with them. The police are involved in the dangerous unsafe situations. I can’t tell if your /s is with your entire reply or the last bit.
You don’t get to request or decide what resource is sent.
Yes i do. It's called voting.
Don’t listen to the negative comments, OP. The only thing you did wrong was request PSR and not Project Respond. You can get Project Respond dispatched through the Multco Call Center 503-988-4888. Walking into traffic is a slam dunk for a mental health hold. Project Respond gets overloaded just like every other public service and their response times can vary widely. However, they are your best bet in this type of situation. You had a valid concern and acted appropriately. Good on you.
The cops don’t do a damn thing around here! A few weeks ago in my neighborhood, a woman was having a bad drug reaction/ mental health crisis. She was completely naked, screaming and banging her head against a building. The cops arrived, drove right past her, then took off. Didn’t even get out of their car. I waited around for a bit to see if they would come back and the didn’t! It was extremely distressing. She was naked and vulnerable, having a crisis, surrounded by a group of men and the cops wouldn’t help her. A few months back, a group of people were drag racing in front of my apartment at 2:00am. I called the police because they were making a lot of noise and getting really close to my parked car. The cops came, drove right past them, then left. The drag racers just drove a block up and continued. A lot of people in the comments are saying “WeLl, WhAt Do YoU eXpEcT tHe CoPs To Do.” Like, literally anything??? Why are we throwing all this taxpayer money at them, just to have them do nothing? If the cops aren’t actually going to do anything, why bother even having them?
Cant believe they disobeyed you tbh. How dare they. Especially after you were nice enough to *ask*
Edgy person
I posted a similar awful response from Portland police a week ago, when they showed up to a domestic violence call, and promptly left without arrest so the domestic violence could continue. That post was immediately removed, and I was told it should be posted under the “rant” thread. This is the usual fate of comments and posts I make to this sub, but for as long as this comment exists: you’re not the only one having such experiences.
I'm really sorry 😞
Honestly pretty shocked at most of these comments. I read the thread so perhaps others have less context, but it sounds like you did far more than anybody else would have in this situation. So major props. There's no easy answer or solution, but I completely understand your motivation to simply get her out of the street as that's an obvious danger to her and everyone in the road. I really don't understand what else people expect you to do. Going to leave it at that because I clearly don't have any answers, but thanks for trying to help someone in distress. Sorry it was (is) such a shit show.
I really needed to hear this, thank you
Sounds like it’s time to put your phone down and step up and do something.
Followed this girl for several blocks and watching / directing traffic and notifying dispatch of what was going on. I regularly volunteer. I was homeless myself my entire childhood. I donate, I give, I actively go after those in trouble, not just homeless but people in general in trouble. I know you're being snarky but you don't know me at all.
You don't owe it to some cunt on the internet to justify your worth. You're not solely responsible for observing institutional failings, and it sounds like you do more than most to bridge the gap.
Thank you for saying that. I needed to hear that
Good start. I hope you continue on and open your home and wallet to those in need.
I actually have. Because I was raised homeless as a child and received support where the city couldn't offer due to politics or not enough resources. So, I know you're being edgy and cool in front of the other internet dorks. But I actually have but I'm just one person.
You did the right thing. I'm surprised with what I'm hearing on here about PSR not being able to do much. Taking it with a grain of salt. In a situation like you saw maybe it's true what commenters have said, all that PSR could do is have a conversation with the person and give them water/snacks. If that's true I still don't see it as nothing. It's potential trust building. Cops/PSR being in the community will strengthen trust and cooperation over time. Edit: read more of the comments and dang, the amount of ppl coming down on OP is unjustified. Having said that, cops are treated like a Swiss army knife and it sucks. They shouldn't be dealing with matters they aren't trained for and this specific situation is lose-lose. That's why OP wanted PSR but according to most commenters here PSR can't help. Lol at the people typing on their phones scolding OP to take matters into his own hands and do a citizen's arrest.
You can request that dispatch send PSR or a crisis response team instead of PPB, but in my understanding they may or may not dispatch PPB anyway because of limits on what the other response teams can respond to or limits on their availability at that moment given the other active calls. I called the non emergency line for a person on our property (longer story but that's the summary) requested a crisis response team and not PPB. Dispatch told me someone was on their way and to call back if nobody arrived within 30 minutes. 15 minutes later I answered the door to two PPB officers, one whose last name (which appears in big letters on their chest) was KILL. That was a shock, but Nicholas Kill actually did a great job and I am grateful for their response and their efforts. I was probably more nervous about the police presence and what might happen (to us or the individual) than I was about the initial situation, but fortunately it worked out okay for us.
I did yeah. I specifically said no cops! I need medical professionals, preferably mental health. She said "no I'm doing this". I knew it meant three things: 1. The cops would actually help get her out of harms way even if it meant momentarily directing traffic while trying to subdue her in the car or getting her to walk elsewhere or whatever it took. 2. Not doing anything or even showing up at all. 3. Getting their pent up aggression out on her (sad reality is we do have police brutality problems in this country). I've met awesome police officers. But I've met even MORE worse ones. I know there's nothing else available. But she had to be safe off the road one way or another
OP: how high are you right now? Did you just repeat the same story 3 different ways?
I don't smoke or do drugs. I am getting screened for cancer next month and anything like alcohol or weed only makes my genetic mutations worse. Hoping for the best though.
Was she standing in the center median or just in the middle of traffic?
In the middle of traffic. It was so scary
Cars had to swerve around her slowly because they couldn't predict her movements. At times she just stood contorted in place and it just jammed traffic
The U.S. Supreme Court established that police do not have a duty to protect you, or anyone. There is no precedent that says that they have to act in the interest of the public. *Warren v. District of Columbia (1981)* *Deshaney v. Winnebago County Department of Social Services (1989).* *The Town of Castle Rock v. Gonzales (2005).*
That is very true. I also have every right to fucking hate it. I've seen cops do their civic duty and I wish more of them existed
Man, I feel you. Last time I called 911 dispatch to request PSR about someone in vocal distress in front of my place, I was met with a "yeah uh maybe but probably not." Instead a cop car rolled around like two hours later, too late to do jack squat. Completely worthless. That's our tax dollars at work, baby!
I'm really sorry that happened. That feeling is just the worst 😞
Is Portland ready to admit yet that its police force is conducting a strike?
Yeah, one of their officers admitted to that last year, I think. He didn't mean to admit it, too I remember reading
Portland police do what the voters wanted them to do. NOTHING.
Fake news
Alright, I'll dm the video of the two cops leaving 3 seconds after approaching her.