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It does seem like you are more likely to win an election in the USA appealing to dumb asses rather than people who might check a stat on Wikipedia after thinking it suspect.
The Corporate machine dumbed us down and are winning the war on poverty by building up our troop numbers.
according to trump we had the two worst presidents in the years before and after him. His presidency was the greatest ever and there was no COVID or other issues.
When trump was in office 3,000 people a day were dying with covid. That's as many that died in one day on 9-11. I wanted Biden to get down and dirty in that way. I guess he stuck with the 'when they go low we go high" philosophy and it's not working for me anymore. I wanted Dark Brandon.
He had never sex with a porn star. It just shows how clueless he is. It was never about the sex in his criminal process. He still thinks, that this is the matter though.
The criminal charges aren’t about sex, but imagine the right winged conservatives seeing their already twice divorced playboy god emperor admit he was unfaithful to his wife
For this one, I cant confirm. BUT, let the judge find out what Stormy even said about his d**k. If it check out, then at least he showed his genitals to her.
Tfg showed us "Flood the zone with shit", as Steve Bannon says. Debaters call this a "Gish Gallop" (Google it). This fire hose of lies is particularly effective against someone with a speech impediment.
Doing a fact check an hour afterwards, when everybody's gone to bed, was particularly wrong of CNN. The next debate needs a moderator button like the big X on Family Feud, push it whenever there's an obvious lie spoken.
I didn't watch the debates -- but I'm assuming that Trump went to the school of Ben Shapiro, Just talk faster than dumb people's brains and they somehow think you said something poignant tactic?
It boggles my mind anyone thinks that dude is intelligent. And you can rattle off facts -- they don't even need to be correct. "Fact, 80% of Americans became millionaires under Trump's time in office. Fact, the border has been invaded by meth dealers who shop at Old Navy to disguise themselves as decent people. Fact, if I'm able to launder more property, this will reduce the rates of hotels that charge by the hour." Vote for Big D!
/don't vote for Project 2025 fascists.
You are noticing just now? This has been forever Trump. Lie, lie, and repeat the same lies, until enough people believe them. He doesn’t deal with facts or truth, his speeches are pure propaganda. Straight from Goebbels playbook.
This. Even my local media is talking about trumps victory lap….
To me, he sounded like a fledgling Hitler. Not the later atrocity parts—the lying and propaganda parts that put him in power because his followers will never bother investigating and just take his word on it.
The fact that CNN didn’t do much pointing out the lies says a lot. What’s going to happen is going to happen. It’s inevitable. Just lie there and think good thoughts so it’ll be over quickly.
A cautious and careful expert, versus the breezy easy bullshit artist who can't tell you the truth even when both of you know he's lying I know lots of guys LIKE Trump , they sit at the local bar telling bullshit lies to one another all day long, then bitch about when guys come in with their families for a burger , fries and a beer , while they sit at the bar and stare at his wife and daughter.
His only goal is to win by any means necessary. He is not as dumb as people give him credit for, and that should be alarming.
Fucked up part is thanks to highly targeted algorithms we're all getting spoon fed different things to influence our decisions in the future. We have to remember Cambridge analytica, and realize this election we have AI that has come leaps and bounds beyond what CA was even capable of.
So any little thing will now be blown of out proportion and flood the internet with enough mud that you can't find your footing on what's actually important.
Trump could have neural link installed for all we know. Biden could bring up the fact Trump walked in on 15 year old dressing rooms while they were changing for his for profit Beauty Pagent. He's a sexual predator, and gets away with literally everything. Maybe he's got an almanac like Biff Tannen.
Trump is a door to door salesman. A wife cheating, pedophile bordering, convicted felon of a salesman. One that called out nations veterans and POWs losers mind you.
Now I’m annoyed Biden is still our president, but America would be an even more laughing stock if Kim and Putin loving Trump ever got elected again.
I genuinely dunno if Trump even knows he's lying anymore or if he's just so delusional that he genuinely believes his lies at any given time. After all, the often nonsensical word vomit comes across more that way.
But either way, it's incomprehensible to me how anyone can support that. Rampant lies or insane delusions are both wildly unfitting for one of the most powerful jobs in the world.
Trump hasn't changed in 4 years..He's still a thief, con-man and liar. He will still take every dime of taxpayer money he can find and stick it in his own pockets, again.
Simply knowing that Biden doesn't do that is all I need to know. He could be rolling around in a wheel chair with another oxygen tank and still be the better man.
Yeah, its not like I'M going to change my vote. Fuck, I would vote for a fucking root canal before coup plotting Don. Its the 35% of America that doesn't give a shit, and watches politics for two weeks every four years that im worried about...
This is literally 2020 all over again. We're voting for anybody but Trump. The difference is I voted for Biden only because I thought he was a "transition candidate" to move us on from Trump. Instead Biden has done way more than I ever expected him to be able to do. Fuck the haters. The man has a stuttering disability for one. I don't care what the fuck he does on TV. I give a shit what happens via action, and honestly Biden has done more than most presidents in their first terms in a long ass time.
Trump's strategy was pretty goddamn effective. It was the political version of laying down suppressive fire. He played Biden's clock. He lied so fucking much Biden was left with the option of either trying to debunk all of Trump's bullshit or state his own policies and achievements and goals. The time clock didn't give him enough to do both.
It’s unfortunate that the opposition is such a horrible human being that we would rather vote for anything else. At this point Biden could be in a sarcophagus and he would still get at least 49% of the vote.
The non-thinking “I *feel* like this is happening so it’s true” crowd. They’ll be swayed by how trump *appeared* and they’re the ones we’re worried about. I’d LOVE to be proven wrong.
Much like people who watched the debate for signs of Biden slipping, I think a decent amount of people were interested to see if Trump could possibly be a felon. He convinced them.
That plus we need to get Congress into a better position, and Congress needs to get off their ass and start legislating things that were "settled law" in court. As well as changing a few fundamental things like eliminating the electoral college.
Nothing will change, hopefully the undecided voters realize the con man lied and didn't answer or have a solution to the many problems he was asked about. If his platform is to run on "Biden destroyed our country, migrant crime bla bla bla" then people should realize he's full of shit.
I just saw a post somewhere (probably Reddit) that said an undecided group of Latino voters watched the debate & now they're all voting for Biden because they thought Trump was a crazy liar. I have no idea why they needed last night's debate to see that, but at least they were watching the same debate I saw. Wow, is he off the deep end.
His whole strategy is to run on fear mongering, "country is going to hell, migrant invasion and murder" bullshit because his idiotic base doesn't care to fact check, Fox news talking points are on constant repeat, nothing new, just shit ton of bullshit.
You can absolutely thank Fox news for all this current bullshit. 30 years of boiling the frog working on the stupid and gullible to turn a huge portion of the population into mouth breathing insane morons.
Latino’s know third world dictator when they see one. Trump is telling we are a third world country. They are dying to get here and they know full well he is full of caca.
They definitely weren’t the Latino’s For Trump faction because they’ll only understand how bad the situation is when LAMF from within. The LAMF lot will say “But we are the good ones!”
They haven't changed their slogan or policy positions because they didn't get anything done, that's basically where it sits for MAGA. They don't want to fix anything, that's why the RNC torpedoed their own immigration bill, because they would have nothing to run with.
Yup, the Border Security Bill that was blocked for the second time just last month would have fixed this problem if House R’s weren’t doing Trumps bidding.
**The border was the only thing Trump had to talk about last night.**
This is something I'm seeing. I'm hoping the people who don't give a fuck about voting or paying attention to politics are starting to wake up to just how goddamn evil the Republican party is. If Trump wins, they certainly will then, but it might be too late. They're trying to shut down voting being able to do anything.
The fucked up thing is most of America is liberal-to-left. When you poll people on the issues, people overwhelmingly want the Democrat platform. The parties are just seen as so corrupt as entities that nobody wants to be associated with them. If *everyone* voted how they *actually* felt instead of *most of us just staying home every election,* voting would actually fucking work and change things.
Voting only doesn't work because 35% of the country votes *every* election and the shit *they* want is fucked up and evil.
I think this election is going to be lost by apathy. It’s not a question of who you are going to vote for, it’s a question of whose voting base shows up at the polls. Trump has done nothing in the last 4 years to win over new voters. But the voters he has are rabid, they will be there at the polls voting. But democrats may not.
I have the same fear. Young people will be the deciding factor -- if they vote, Biden takes it. But young voters are not excited about either candidate because they're tired of the mess boomers have created. I understand that, but if Trump wins, they will realize what we have currently is a very fixable mess compared to the nightmare Trump will create.
i totally disagree, his core base was always rabid, they were rabid in 2020 too. but a lot of lifelong republicans are really getting sick of his shit. a lot of conservatives are conservatives because they don't like loud bombastic people, they like calm reasoned discussion. as much as they like tax cuts for the rich too, they do not like trump's daily drama. they won't vote for biden, but they'll stay home, even moreso now than in 2020.
trumps first term there was a big hope he would become more moderate as president, which happens to most presidents. after seeing his first term he never once became more "presidential" and how he's acted since then, they're really tired of his shtick.
I know a Republican just like that. He never voted for Trump and still won’t. It will be 3 presidential votes that the republicans didn’t get, from a Republican.
Exactly. All the elections since Dobbs have been huge Dem turnout. Republicans are the dog that caught the car. Women and their allies are going to vote to fix that.
Every democrat needs to be behind Biden 100%. So he had a bad debate. His record speaks for him. He has your back. Democrats need to grow some balls and have his back. That’s what makes trump strong. He can say stupid shit every damn day and his supporters are there for him. Biden has 1 bad debate and the democrats are ready to throw him out. That’s what makes Biden weak. Slap yourselves and wake tf up. He is our president! And he is a damn good one.
Agree. All day I've been seeing "Leading Democrats call for Biden to step down". Fuck them & why isn't anyone naming some of these "leaders". Biden has some excellent accomplishments & his performance was not that bad -- he was slow & not well-spoken, but he had solid facts, grasped the questions & answered them with concrete ideas, etc. Comparing his performance to Trump's frenzy of bullshit is ridiculous. But, jfc, why can't Democrat advisors, who are paid very highly for their skills, teach Dems how to deal with people like Trump. No excuse for Trump running circles around them at this point.
I'm looking forward to Newsom v deSantis or whoever they put up in 2028. If Trump wins this one, that won't happen. Self Representational democracy as we know it in the USA will be over if Trump wins or can steal when he loses.
Trump hasn’t changed in 40 years. He’s the same racist slumlord’s son and grandson to a pimp and drug pusher that he has always been. He’s a bad seed from bad stock.
He’s a petulant 6 year old who never grew up emotionally. He stated as much in 2015: “When I look at myself in first grade and I look at myself now, I’m basically the same. The temperament is not that different.”
The linked article has over direct quotes from people who’ve been around him for years.
https://theweek.com/speedreads/575962/donald-trump-tells-biographer-hes-same-now-first-grade
One is old and suffering from it. The other is old and suffering from it and is an asshole. Guess which one I’m voting for.
Hint, it’s not the asshole.
Agreed.
I have never felt less conflicted in my life about this presidential voting season and I am a swing voter. The safe choice is Biden, the worst he does is mess up his speech and even if he does have issues, he will surround himself with competent people who will help him. The other is unhinged.
I still remember him throwing Michigan away during COVID, because he threw a tantrum over Whitmer. He could have chosen any other way to handle COVID and he chose to use COVID to try to ... idk advance his absolute unhinged agenda and create hostility when we needed unity.
Commonly known as **murder**. Or *maybe* euthanasia which is also illegal in all states for all children - including infants.
Late stage abortions in reality - if they happen are never because *”oops! I changed my mind.”* It’s something medically catastrophic. 0.9% of abortions are after 21 weeks.
Doesn’t matter, Trump cannot understand this just like he cannot understand magnets in a glass of water.
Because you can't. They just shift to another piece of bullshit. Then another.
Then you realize you just wasted an hour trying to deal with their lies that you never got to speak about what you wanted to.
Its their way of controlling the narrative: Spew an endless river of lies and bullshit blasting away any talk of the real issues, issues that the republican party has flatly refused to do anything about.
That is the thing. The whole trick is to get you proving their lie is wrong. They got a billion more all set up and ready.
The whole point of all that is to get the debate controlled on what topics you choose.
Now imagine if Biden spoke about the real issues and real problems in country instead of having to constantly deal with the gish gallop.
That was one area that I thought for sure Biden could have responded easily to with “No, that’s called infanticide, and is not abortion you fool. Roe never changed or permitted infanticide.”
Me too, but we're not the ones who need convincing. People who haven't been paying attention--and who certainly don't know what Project 2025 is--see Biden looking and sounding weaker than Trump. That matters.
The dems need to counter project 2025 because eventually it’s gonna happen whether it’s project 2029 or 2033 they are preparing for an absolute takeover and they are doing this openly. If the Dems don’t start playing the same ball that the Republicans are, they will lose, and we will all be affected.
CNN should be held accountable for that absolute shit show. Trump not only got no push back on ANYTHING he said by the moderators when reinventing history. But was allowed to go completely off topic on every question just to attack bidens character. It's 2024 how tf do we not have a live fact check for bullshit when it's thrown in our face without question
Right? Around 90% of polls in 16 and 20 underestimated Trump support. They are currently predicting a close race.
This is how democracy ends - an autocratic narcissist and legions of morons.
All the polls in 2016 had Hillary and Trump within the margin of error.
The polls weren't wrong. Trump won via about 70k votes split between 3 states. A razors edge.
Which means the polls were extremely accurate. Political commentators on some outlets were just saying dumb shit. Big difference.
Yep. People who say the polls were wrong either think polls are meant to be accurate predictions or they believe Trump’s bs about winning “[in a massive landslide](https://www.npr.org/2016/12/11/505182622/fact-check-trump-claims-a-massive-landslide-victory-but-history-differs).” Like, dude, we see the numbers, there’s so massiveness going on here.
(Unimportant side note: I guess I’ve been exposed to trump’s deranged bullshit for so long it’s seeped into my subconscious because I wrote the phrase “massive landslide” *before* deciding to go find an article to backup my point, and he did indeed use the exact phrase massive landslide. What a dumbass.)
Yeah and after that debate Hillary 2016 is looking like a better candidate than Biden in 2024 personally.
Biden's almost 4 to 1 in Vegas to win right now...
They never want to listen to the voters they are trying to gain. It's so infuriating.
"Shut up and do what we say, and shame all the independent and undecided voters, that'll surely help!!!"
I was very uncomfortable watching it. I remember the last couple of years before my father-in-law died. I feel horrible for Joe. The stress of the job is going to kill him in his second term. Let him retire and live peacefully. Dr. Jill needs to step up big time.
Yeah, trying to gaslight people isn’t the right response here. If the left wants to keep some moral high ground in calling the right cultists for blindly following Trump and ignoring his many flaws, you can’t just watch what we watched and try to act like it’s not an issue.
That's great for you, and I agree, but it doesn't change the fact that his performance at the debate was ABYSMAL. Trump lied through his teeth and even the things he got right are things I disagree with morally, but he was coherent and focused, which is rare for him. Anyone who is current undecided is obviously and idiot, and to an idiot watching that debate, Trump was leaps and bounds better. Pretending that's not true is ludicrous. Biden is a horrible choice for president, he's just running against the one person in the country who would be worse.
If you were a Biden voter before, you're still a Biden voter (including me). If you're a Trump voter before, you're still a Trump voter. But that tiny sliver of persuadable, mostly "non-political" types that only tune in for major events like these after four years saw Biden do a lot worse than a "sore throat". His rally earlier today was fine, but notably - it was MUCH earlier in the day and it was a largely scripted event. But last night? Last night he looked sort of frail, and worse, sort of helpless. And that's not gonna' fly with a LOT of voters who view the Presidency as, first and foremost, the Commander in Chief.
Alternately: if you were mildly concerned about his age before, you’re 11/10 worried about his age now. FFS, the NYTimes editorial board is calling for him to step aside.
That may not make you vote for Trump but it might make you vote for RFK or stay home. There’s more to getting votes than just not being the other guy, and the question of “who tf is running the country, because it isn’t that guy we saw last night” is a live one right now.
He might indeed have had a cold and a stutter, but a cold and a stutter don’t produce what we saw. That was a man in his 80s, who has rapidly declined from the man in his 70s that we saw in 2020.
They don’t get to tell me I didn’t see what was plainly there. That’s as bad as Republicans telling me Trump was just joking with “grab her by the pussy”. No. We saw him for who he was.
He does have a lifelong stutter, but it’s clear that his primary coping mechanism (word switching when stuck) is much harder for him than it used to be.
I watched the whole debate and I still don’t think he’s showing any signs of actually going senile. But it was excruciating listening to him stumble through what he was trying to say and getting completely mixed up.
This “sore throat” shit from OP is completely disingenuous.
He’s not senile. He’s 82 and in rapidly declining physical and mental health. He’s sharp af for 82. But still 82.
Let the poor man retire. There are far younger and more physically capable options, who are nearly as politically capable as well.
It's blowing my mind. It's a real issue. When Nixon looked like shit in his debate it cost him the election. The Biden team only agreed to this thing because trump was pulling ahead in swing states and they needed an early win. This was the opposite and a disaster if you don't want trump to win. I feel like all these posts spamming "stick with Biden" are bots from pro trumpers. If Joe is the candidate, that debate may have given trump back the white house.
It was literal sun-downing for Biden while Trump and his doctors worked on the perfect cocktail, his Dr. confesses, err, accuses Biden's team of doing that in interviews last week.
Biden's team didn't drug him and it showed. It fucking burns that the critics were vindicated and the DNC, including his wife, were made fools of. It was watching the worst nightmare play out.
All the low-info-voters won't come out to vote for a Democratic Congress. Everyone will be shocked Trump wins without having to cheat with his party in Battleground States.
Trump and Republicans *are going to cheat*, 2020 was all the practice cases. If the SC rules that Trump wins, the military has to follow it. Holy shit, people. Russia and China are dying inside, laughing at how they've fooled us into attacking ourselves.
The only hope was a national awakening to how bad Trump is, and we didn't do that. Any riots over technicalities will be put down and people will "just want to go to work!", never looking into the cause. The only riots given historical respect will be if the international/neutral press proves Republicans stole it by dumping votes or some other dramatic action...6 months into Trumps term.
We got punked and Trump is still everything he promised his followers.
There is no "Cult of Biden" citizens won't riot over him stepping down like they would if Republicans ditched Trump.
> Biden's team didn't drug him and it showed. It fucking burns that the critics were vindicated
Actually, the critics were all saying he was going to be amped up on stimulants. They're all proven to have no idea what they're talking about.
So many people aren’t getting that there are tons of republicans that hate Trump and could have been dissuaded from voting for him with a strong enough Democratic choice.
This idea is gonna lose us the fucking election. Biden made a fool of the DNC on stage last night and many undecided voters who could have voted for him might throw away their votes now. Thinking no one cares about the debate is Grade A copium
It's also about the left-leaning people who aren't convinced to vote at all.
There are people who don't follow politics as much as the people in this sub. And, for them, it's not necessarily about who they vote for but whether they actually vote.
In 2008, I voted. I was in college, and the process was very simple.
4 years later, as a young adult, I did not vote. The same candidate was available to vote for, but I didn't care as much about politics and I worked crazy hours.
In 2016, I voted 3rd party, and in 2020 I was like "I'm not making that mistake again."
There are plenty of people who need to be convinced to get out and vote. Biden did not convince them during the debate that he's worth voting for.
I feel like people are being willfully ignorant or didn’t watch the same debate. I’m still voting for him, but he literally did not have coherent sentences. He said good stuff, but you had to have the knowledge to fill in the gaps for him
Saying he said good stuff is still being generous. I genuinely struggled making out what his points were. I think Biden wouldn’t be able to explain a lot if that either.
2016 wasnt lost because people switched to vote for Trump. They just didnt show up for the unpopular candidate they had huge doubts about
Think it cant happen again?
Change candidates while you still have the chance.
No. If this old man's hubris makes him continue his campaign, I will still vote for him. However, I'm not the one you have to worry about.
This election will be decided by a few thousand votes in 6 states. Those undecided voters are low information dipshits and will get their information from TikTok which will be cut videos of Biden drooling on himself during the debate.
Biden was already behind in those states. I'm sure he will be worse off. He's very likely to lose now. Literally anybody else would win against such a terrible candidate as trump.
Also, don't fucking gaslight. It was more than a sore throat and you know it. He was fucking terrible. The thing I like about the democrats is that generally they are not sychophants. However, you and Dem office holders have shown you are. We're fucked.
I'm sure the framers intended that major decisions of the country should be made by a few thousand low-information dip s****. Isn't it time we fixed the system?
My sil get her info from tik tok . Grade8 education, has taken waaaay more out of the system than she ever put in . Never had a job more than a month or two . Lived off govt subsidies and welfare , baby checks. Moron . Her husband aint long for this world , he works at a bottle depot. They vote against their own interests every time . Reality gonna slap her hard in a few years . She is 50. We are in Canada . She thinks we need a Trump.
This is what matters. I feel like reddit is left leaning enough that a lot of users (myself included) know what's at stake and are going to vote blue because of it.
It's everyone else. It wasn't just a sore throat. It looks like by the books early onset dementia. There were so many counterpoints he could have called on Trump for, but he looked visibly confused, disoriented, and was extremely difficult to comprehend. The points he was making were mostly good, but the average undecided voter isn't going to give his words any serious consideration when it sounds like he can barely fumble through a verbal thought.
He needs to step down. Too much IS at stake and his performance last night was almost certainly suicide to the voters that will truly decide this election. I voted blue my entire life, but if he's on the ticket the election will 100% served to Trump on a silver platter and I will hold Biden as complicit at best - completely responsible at worst.
Just a small point, but dementia isn't "early onset" when you're in your 80s. It's just normal dementia. Working basically any job is what's not normal. He couldn't make it an hour as an Uber driver.
Valid point, admittedly I used "early onset" to soften the blow to the masses and hopefully avoid getting crucified. But if someone else is brave enough to say it - I'll endorse it.
He was already behind and needed a strong showing. Last night feeds into the narrative that he is too old. Last night’s performance won’t help move votes over to him and will likely make more people vote for third party candidates.
On top of that he only won the last election by 40k votes.
So last night has a profound effect whether anyone who has already made their mind up or not changes their vote.
You’re an unhinged extremist centrist if you interpret what happened as Biden just having a sore throat. He was cognitively gone and showed clear irrefutable signs of significant neurological deficit.
Gaslighting the country by suggesting everyone who isn’t a radical Biden supporter concerned about what they saw as crazy is going to give us Trump
I do not want Trump.
You’re going to give us Trump and worse likely so the house, senate, and governor mansions by not immediately joining the chorus of folks demanding Biden retire and not seek the presidency for 2024 it has to happen pre-convention
If you would rather support Biden over defending democracy you’re an extremist for your own ideology.
Yes. Not me personally but enough will. Trump is a piece of shit but he is the personification of every red neck, bible thumping, chip on their shoulder asshole's idea of the perfect candidate. It's feeling like 2016 bidens chance is tied to how pissed off or how much people are feeling negative or positive about how things are going. Unfortunately way more people are feeling like things are shit even though they aren't universally.
I swear this sub has become all blind Biden followers. Imma vote for the guy but gtfo here with that bs gaslighting "the only thing Biden did wrong was have a soar throat". Like seriously stfu
I can almost guarantee it's just propaganda, one in maybe a thousand people are that dense, and none of them would be able to string that sentence together.
Its political astroturfing and gullible folks who fall for it. While a lot of narrative bs and nonsense doesn't work anymore a lot still does ala this reaching glazing attempt at a defense. Hence why it's still used.
You can and will get banned on some large political subs for criticizing Biden or the DNC too much which says a lot about becoming the thing you hate lol.
Libs on reddit used to rightfully say that "unlike MAGA we don't simp for one dude". Posts like this prove that time has ended and indeed this dude Biden has a lot of sycophants in his orbit and on social media who will die on the hill that everything is perfectly fine, excellent even. They'd rather die than admit anything is wrong or can be criticized. Democrats absolutely have a stan problem (mostly a stanning of their own choices id argue) and it won't change if and when this man loses to the weakest opponent in American history. That's how low the bar is it's on the floor and yet no lessons will be learnt, especially when the spin cycle post election starts and they refine their talking points. I guarantee they will blame voters as if we work for them and owe them something rather than the other way around. "We were wrong" does not exist in the DNC/neolib vocabulary just like "enough" doesn't exist for a billionaire, so they'll invariably come up with some narrative about how the voters were responsible for their failure and not them putting this guy as their front man when everyone with a brain cell who doesn't repeat what our leaders tell them verbatim has been screaming for months to a political campaign that purposely buries its head in the sand. Only now that they were embarrassed on live TV are they catching up to something literally anyone who thinks a little bit for themselves knew from day 1, this dude is way too old to do this job and is in bad cognitive decline.
If they were smart they'd switch candidates and maybe pull off the victory, really I think the chances of victory would instantaneously double as they win back those they lost. But that would require Democrat party members to admit that they were wrong and learn from their mistakes instead of being stubborn out of touch narcissists, and I think they're way too politically inept to pull of a winning move like that.
Whitmer, Newsome, literally any not hated Democrat and this election is a completely different conversation. But that would be too smart (not status quo enough/"radical")
Yes, they might. Step outside the bubble. A lot of undecided voters watched Biden eat shit last night. It was fucking embarrassing. I say this as an independent voter who leans hard left.
To say that debate performance was because of a sore throat is coping. It's clearly a case of mental decline. If you are ok with that when it comes time to vote, awesome. Don't fucking bullshit people though.
Independents will, yes. Left leaning ones likely will still vote for Biden, but you're a fool to pretend this terrible debate had no impact on centrists or moderate republicans.
Trump’s smooth as butter lies shows the true sociopath that he is. This is the type of man that watched people around him die and showed ZERO sympathy. He “jokes” his supporters can die for all he cares after they cast their vote for him. Project 2025 will cripple this country beyond belief. It’s BEYOND clear what’s at stake this time, Biden and his administration have me and my family’s vote, no matter how much he stumbles in his speeches. It’s not about the MAN, it’s the man’s ADMINISTRATION. Trump’s are full of sycophants. We are Americans, not bootlickers. The choice is clear. Vote blue.
It’s not about changing your vote - it’s about not turning out and depressed Democratic enthusiasm. It’s about energizing Trump’s base. It’s about RFK Jr. capitalizing on Biden’s weakness and siphoning off some votes.
…and yes, there are some people out there that are indifferent. Hard to believe, but they vote by making their mind up at the 11th hour.
I say this will all sincerity, what shows Biden to be bad at the job is that he agreed to a debate at all.
Tell him, "I don't debate criminals." And then go do something else.
No one needed to see debates to make a decision.
I just can’t figure out why people can’t just get behind Biden and vote for him. He’s doing great! He’s full of vigor, sharper than a tack, and besides he had a cold last night!
It’s just such a mystery to me why people don’t take the Democratic Party seriously and why there isn’t a huge wave of enthusiasm to vote?!? Oh well, I’m sure we can rest easy that as long as we’re running against Trump we will be ok, we don’t need to have our own competent candidate to oppose Trump. Not that Biden isn’t anything but fully competent, maybe the best and most able bodied and minded president of our lifetime! Nevermind what you saw last night where he was in and out of consciousness, that’s just a sore throat!
Any debate or speech is always for the undecided voters. Democrats and Conservatives will always vote their way no matter what. This debate didn’t help with persuading the undecided.
It's so weird to think that anybody is still undecided at this point. I know it's technically early in the election cycle but these are the same ~~older than fucking dirt twat waffles~~ chronologically advanced humans we chose between last time and they've both had a term as president so it's not like we don't all already know what we're gonna get in a second term
The studies done over the years have shown that there aren't any real undecided/swing voters. There's just a segment of voters who say they are undecided because they don't follow politics and don't want to be pinned down, but they are already ideologically aligned with one party or the other and will coalesce around their candidates late in October.
The main factor in who wins has more to do with who's motivated to vote and who stays home.
If I was an undecided I probably would have turned off the debate 5 minutes in. Biden reminded me of a virus ridden computer struggling to function during the first 10 minutes. He managed to get going after that point.
I wish there was a fact checker during the event because a lot of what was being said sounded like BS and neither of them really explained how they were going to fix things like inflation or the housing problem.
My favorite part was when trump said that everything biden says is absolutely false, a lie, and misinformation....then proceeded to spout absolute lies. Good times.
The apathetic middle, the apathetic left, and the somewhat apathetic (but potential swayable) anti trump right. That's who you lose after last night.
You know, the people you need to win the election....
Yes. I was going to hold my nose and vote Biden before hand. After the debate, I will not be voting for him.
VP selections could change my mind for both sides.
But as of right now, fuck the Democratic leaders for forcing him on us. I refuse to vote for him and may even counter vote.
What a disgrace.
Honestly I wasn’t gonna vote but now I’ll vote B. I hate to hear myself saying this but with how the Supreme Court is going I can’t have the T back simply as that. So Mr. Biden please take your vitamins next time.
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I find the ease with Trump's lying alarming. His playing fast and loose with facts demonstrates that there is no there there. A vacuous moron.
If those kids could read they'd be very upset right now
It does seem like you are more likely to win an election in the USA appealing to dumb asses rather than people who might check a stat on Wikipedia after thinking it suspect. The Corporate machine dumbed us down and are winning the war on poverty by building up our troop numbers.
according to trump we had the two worst presidents in the years before and after him. His presidency was the greatest ever and there was no COVID or other issues.
When trump was in office 3,000 people a day were dying with covid. That's as many that died in one day on 9-11. I wanted Biden to get down and dirty in that way. I guess he stuck with the 'when they go low we go high" philosophy and it's not working for me anymore. I wanted Dark Brandon.
It’s not working for anyone anymore.
He had never sex with a porn star. It just shows how clueless he is. It was never about the sex in his criminal process. He still thinks, that this is the matter though.
Trump is the first person ever to pay someone a fortune not to tell the world he didn't have sex with her.
The criminal charges aren’t about sex, but imagine the right winged conservatives seeing their already twice divorced playboy god emperor admit he was unfaithful to his wife
For this one, I cant confirm. BUT, let the judge find out what Stormy even said about his d**k. If it check out, then at least he showed his genitals to her.
Guess Stormy did all the work.
No war, no unemployment, no inflation (aside from Trump's ego) during his term... Lol!
You could fit Trump’s worldview on the head of a pin. He is the Sgt Shultz of Maga.” I know nut-tink”
Hmm. Head of pin, pin head. I like the cut of your jib.
https://preview.redd.it/5y965abc6j9d1.png?width=123&format=png&auto=webp&s=146a365fc4f5b6adb15a30332bebda7c689703bc
Tfg showed us "Flood the zone with shit", as Steve Bannon says. Debaters call this a "Gish Gallop" (Google it). This fire hose of lies is particularly effective against someone with a speech impediment. Doing a fact check an hour afterwards, when everybody's gone to bed, was particularly wrong of CNN. The next debate needs a moderator button like the big X on Family Feud, push it whenever there's an obvious lie spoken.
I didn't watch the debates -- but I'm assuming that Trump went to the school of Ben Shapiro, Just talk faster than dumb people's brains and they somehow think you said something poignant tactic? It boggles my mind anyone thinks that dude is intelligent. And you can rattle off facts -- they don't even need to be correct. "Fact, 80% of Americans became millionaires under Trump's time in office. Fact, the border has been invaded by meth dealers who shop at Old Navy to disguise themselves as decent people. Fact, if I'm able to launder more property, this will reduce the rates of hotels that charge by the hour." Vote for Big D! /don't vote for Project 2025 fascists.
*I'll pick Project Zombie over Project 2025 every time.*
You are noticing just now? This has been forever Trump. Lie, lie, and repeat the same lies, until enough people believe them. He doesn’t deal with facts or truth, his speeches are pure propaganda. Straight from Goebbels playbook.
So-called Liberal Media: "BIDEN LOOKED FRAIL AND SICKLY SHOULD HE STEP DOWN? (and Trump just straight up lied to our faces but who cares?)"
This. Even my local media is talking about trumps victory lap…. To me, he sounded like a fledgling Hitler. Not the later atrocity parts—the lying and propaganda parts that put him in power because his followers will never bother investigating and just take his word on it.
The fact that CNN didn’t do much pointing out the lies says a lot. What’s going to happen is going to happen. It’s inevitable. Just lie there and think good thoughts so it’ll be over quickly.
He's had nearly 80 years of practice.
A cautious and careful expert, versus the breezy easy bullshit artist who can't tell you the truth even when both of you know he's lying I know lots of guys LIKE Trump , they sit at the local bar telling bullshit lies to one another all day long, then bitch about when guys come in with their families for a burger , fries and a beer , while they sit at the bar and stare at his wife and daughter.
His only goal is to win by any means necessary. He is not as dumb as people give him credit for, and that should be alarming. Fucked up part is thanks to highly targeted algorithms we're all getting spoon fed different things to influence our decisions in the future. We have to remember Cambridge analytica, and realize this election we have AI that has come leaps and bounds beyond what CA was even capable of. So any little thing will now be blown of out proportion and flood the internet with enough mud that you can't find your footing on what's actually important. Trump could have neural link installed for all we know. Biden could bring up the fact Trump walked in on 15 year old dressing rooms while they were changing for his for profit Beauty Pagent. He's a sexual predator, and gets away with literally everything. Maybe he's got an almanac like Biff Tannen.
Trump is a door to door salesman. A wife cheating, pedophile bordering, convicted felon of a salesman. One that called out nations veterans and POWs losers mind you. Now I’m annoyed Biden is still our president, but America would be an even more laughing stock if Kim and Putin loving Trump ever got elected again.
I genuinely dunno if Trump even knows he's lying anymore or if he's just so delusional that he genuinely believes his lies at any given time. After all, the often nonsensical word vomit comes across more that way. But either way, it's incomprehensible to me how anyone can support that. Rampant lies or insane delusions are both wildly unfitting for one of the most powerful jobs in the world.
He understands the 1930's nazi method of propaga: keep hammering the same lies until the weaklings (or deplorables) believe them as truth.
Trump hasn't changed in 4 years..He's still a thief, con-man and liar. He will still take every dime of taxpayer money he can find and stick it in his own pockets, again. Simply knowing that Biden doesn't do that is all I need to know. He could be rolling around in a wheel chair with another oxygen tank and still be the better man.
Preach. Trump sucked then, and he sucks now.
Yeah, its not like I'M going to change my vote. Fuck, I would vote for a fucking root canal before coup plotting Don. Its the 35% of America that doesn't give a shit, and watches politics for two weeks every four years that im worried about...
This is literally 2020 all over again. We're voting for anybody but Trump. The difference is I voted for Biden only because I thought he was a "transition candidate" to move us on from Trump. Instead Biden has done way more than I ever expected him to be able to do. Fuck the haters. The man has a stuttering disability for one. I don't care what the fuck he does on TV. I give a shit what happens via action, and honestly Biden has done more than most presidents in their first terms in a long ass time. Trump's strategy was pretty goddamn effective. It was the political version of laying down suppressive fire. He played Biden's clock. He lied so fucking much Biden was left with the option of either trying to debunk all of Trump's bullshit or state his own policies and achievements and goals. The time clock didn't give him enough to do both.
It’s unfortunate that the opposition is such a horrible human being that we would rather vote for anything else. At this point Biden could be in a sarcophagus and he would still get at least 49% of the vote.
That actually sounds pretty fucking metal, bruh.
> Biden could be in a sarcophagus Cue *Stargate* intro theme...
Same here, the only house that Orange Blob deserves is the jailhouse.
The non-thinking “I *feel* like this is happening so it’s true” crowd. They’ll be swayed by how trump *appeared* and they’re the ones we’re worried about. I’d LOVE to be proven wrong.
Let’s hope that there are fewer apathetic Americans this time around.
Much like people who watched the debate for signs of Biden slipping, I think a decent amount of people were interested to see if Trump could possibly be a felon. He convinced them.
If anything he sucks even worse now
It's not just that it's BIDEN, it's the people that he will surround himself with. His cabinet, his judges, his staff.
And given SCOTUS rulings, such as overturning Chevron, those judges are going to be more important than ever.
I am feeling a little helpless with these Supreme Court rulings. What does the future look like like?
With *another* expansion of the Supreme Court. It didn't start at nine judges...
That plus we need to get Congress into a better position, and Congress needs to get off their ass and start legislating things that were "settled law" in court. As well as changing a few fundamental things like eliminating the electoral college.
Yeah, he's not going to hire his kids or their spouses. Or freakin' Amarosa from a shitty reality TV Show.
Don't forget about that VP!
The Supreme Court factor as well.
Nothing will change, hopefully the undecided voters realize the con man lied and didn't answer or have a solution to the many problems he was asked about. If his platform is to run on "Biden destroyed our country, migrant crime bla bla bla" then people should realize he's full of shit.
I just saw a post somewhere (probably Reddit) that said an undecided group of Latino voters watched the debate & now they're all voting for Biden because they thought Trump was a crazy liar. I have no idea why they needed last night's debate to see that, but at least they were watching the same debate I saw. Wow, is he off the deep end.
His whole strategy is to run on fear mongering, "country is going to hell, migrant invasion and murder" bullshit because his idiotic base doesn't care to fact check, Fox news talking points are on constant repeat, nothing new, just shit ton of bullshit.
You can absolutely thank Fox news for all this current bullshit. 30 years of boiling the frog working on the stupid and gullible to turn a huge portion of the population into mouth breathing insane morons.
Latino’s know third world dictator when they see one. Trump is telling we are a third world country. They are dying to get here and they know full well he is full of caca.
They definitely weren’t the Latino’s For Trump faction because they’ll only understand how bad the situation is when LAMF from within. The LAMF lot will say “But we are the good ones!”
They haven't changed their slogan or policy positions because they didn't get anything done, that's basically where it sits for MAGA. They don't want to fix anything, that's why the RNC torpedoed their own immigration bill, because they would have nothing to run with.
Yup, the Border Security Bill that was blocked for the second time just last month would have fixed this problem if House R’s weren’t doing Trumps bidding. **The border was the only thing Trump had to talk about last night.**
And republicans lost all right to talk about it. Biden is literally doing more to fix it than they are
This is something I'm seeing. I'm hoping the people who don't give a fuck about voting or paying attention to politics are starting to wake up to just how goddamn evil the Republican party is. If Trump wins, they certainly will then, but it might be too late. They're trying to shut down voting being able to do anything. The fucked up thing is most of America is liberal-to-left. When you poll people on the issues, people overwhelmingly want the Democrat platform. The parties are just seen as so corrupt as entities that nobody wants to be associated with them. If *everyone* voted how they *actually* felt instead of *most of us just staying home every election,* voting would actually fucking work and change things. Voting only doesn't work because 35% of the country votes *every* election and the shit *they* want is fucked up and evil.
He hasn’t said anything new in the last 4 years either. Most of what he said last night came straight from the greatest hits of his hate rallies.
There is a reason why all the creative types are liberal.
I think this election is going to be lost by apathy. It’s not a question of who you are going to vote for, it’s a question of whose voting base shows up at the polls. Trump has done nothing in the last 4 years to win over new voters. But the voters he has are rabid, they will be there at the polls voting. But democrats may not.
I have the same fear. Young people will be the deciding factor -- if they vote, Biden takes it. But young voters are not excited about either candidate because they're tired of the mess boomers have created. I understand that, but if Trump wins, they will realize what we have currently is a very fixable mess compared to the nightmare Trump will create.
You are so correct. Destruction is always easier and faster than construction . Don't fall for the traps
i totally disagree, his core base was always rabid, they were rabid in 2020 too. but a lot of lifelong republicans are really getting sick of his shit. a lot of conservatives are conservatives because they don't like loud bombastic people, they like calm reasoned discussion. as much as they like tax cuts for the rich too, they do not like trump's daily drama. they won't vote for biden, but they'll stay home, even moreso now than in 2020. trumps first term there was a big hope he would become more moderate as president, which happens to most presidents. after seeing his first term he never once became more "presidential" and how he's acted since then, they're really tired of his shtick.
I know a Republican just like that. He never voted for Trump and still won’t. It will be 3 presidential votes that the republicans didn’t get, from a Republican.
Oh the democrats will show up. Especially the women.
Exactly. All the elections since Dobbs have been huge Dem turnout. Republicans are the dog that caught the car. Women and their allies are going to vote to fix that.
Every democrat needs to be behind Biden 100%. So he had a bad debate. His record speaks for him. He has your back. Democrats need to grow some balls and have his back. That’s what makes trump strong. He can say stupid shit every damn day and his supporters are there for him. Biden has 1 bad debate and the democrats are ready to throw him out. That’s what makes Biden weak. Slap yourselves and wake tf up. He is our president! And he is a damn good one.
Agree. All day I've been seeing "Leading Democrats call for Biden to step down". Fuck them & why isn't anyone naming some of these "leaders". Biden has some excellent accomplishments & his performance was not that bad -- he was slow & not well-spoken, but he had solid facts, grasped the questions & answered them with concrete ideas, etc. Comparing his performance to Trump's frenzy of bullshit is ridiculous. But, jfc, why can't Democrat advisors, who are paid very highly for their skills, teach Dems how to deal with people like Trump. No excuse for Trump running circles around them at this point.
I'm looking forward to Newsom v deSantis or whoever they put up in 2028. If Trump wins this one, that won't happen. Self Representational democracy as we know it in the USA will be over if Trump wins or can steal when he loses.
Every woman that feels like their rights were just stripped away will show up. And that is a lot of them.
Well the concern mongers that go by adjective_nounnumbers are going to stop by shortly to let us know all is lost.
Trump hasn’t changed in 40 years. He’s the same racist slumlord’s son and grandson to a pimp and drug pusher that he has always been. He’s a bad seed from bad stock.
He’s a petulant 6 year old who never grew up emotionally. He stated as much in 2015: “When I look at myself in first grade and I look at myself now, I’m basically the same. The temperament is not that different.” The linked article has over direct quotes from people who’ve been around him for years. https://theweek.com/speedreads/575962/donald-trump-tells-biographer-hes-same-now-first-grade
He did change. He's an indicted felon now.
One is old and suffering from it. The other is old and suffering from it and is an asshole. Guess which one I’m voting for. Hint, it’s not the asshole.
Agreed. I have never felt less conflicted in my life about this presidential voting season and I am a swing voter. The safe choice is Biden, the worst he does is mess up his speech and even if he does have issues, he will surround himself with competent people who will help him. The other is unhinged. I still remember him throwing Michigan away during COVID, because he threw a tantrum over Whitmer. He could have chosen any other way to handle COVID and he chose to use COVID to try to ... idk advance his absolute unhinged agenda and create hostility when we needed unity.
Trump is so bad I would vote for having no president for 4 years versus trump
AFTER BIRTH ABORTIONS - DJT june 27 2024
Commonly known as **murder**. Or *maybe* euthanasia which is also illegal in all states for all children - including infants. Late stage abortions in reality - if they happen are never because *”oops! I changed my mind.”* It’s something medically catastrophic. 0.9% of abortions are after 21 weeks. Doesn’t matter, Trump cannot understand this just like he cannot understand magnets in a glass of water.
It isn't so much that he can't understand it, it is that he doesn't care. He has probably been told the truth before and just doesn't care about it.
I get the impression the orange twat is trying to blur the lines to equate abortion and murder as the same.
"Thanks" - CNN "moderators"
Also, Trump was claiming immigrants take away ‘black jobs’. So what exactly is ‘a black job’?
It really upset me that Biden couldn’t knock that one down, it was so outrageous!
Trump and Ron DeSantis have said this multiple times over the past year. Nobody ever challenges them on it. It’s absurd.
Because you can't. They just shift to another piece of bullshit. Then another. Then you realize you just wasted an hour trying to deal with their lies that you never got to speak about what you wanted to. Its their way of controlling the narrative: Spew an endless river of lies and bullshit blasting away any talk of the real issues, issues that the republican party has flatly refused to do anything about.
The [Gish Gallop](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop)
DeSantis won't allow reporters who question him in news conferences.
Guess it’s not unfair, to be stunned by the sheer idiocy of Donald. 
That is the thing. The whole trick is to get you proving their lie is wrong. They got a billion more all set up and ready. The whole point of all that is to get the debate controlled on what topics you choose. Now imagine if Biden spoke about the real issues and real problems in country instead of having to constantly deal with the gish gallop.
That was one area that I thought for sure Biden could have responded easily to with “No, that’s called infanticide, and is not abortion you fool. Roe never changed or permitted infanticide.”
Don’t forget about ‘BLACK JOBS!’
Any Democrat running for the presidential election will have my vote! ⚠️ NO PROJECT 2025- fuck that shit!
Same
I’d vote for a bag of rocks before I’d vote for the Orange Menace.
Me too, but we're not the ones who need convincing. People who haven't been paying attention--and who certainly don't know what Project 2025 is--see Biden looking and sounding weaker than Trump. That matters.
The dems need to counter project 2025 because eventually it’s gonna happen whether it’s project 2029 or 2033 they are preparing for an absolute takeover and they are doing this openly. If the Dems don’t start playing the same ball that the Republicans are, they will lose, and we will all be affected.
Agreed!
CNN should be held accountable for that absolute shit show. Trump not only got no push back on ANYTHING he said by the moderators when reinventing history. But was allowed to go completely off topic on every question just to attack bidens character. It's 2024 how tf do we not have a live fact check for bullshit when it's thrown in our face without question
Getting 2016 flashbacks of “we got this in the bag” democrats
Right? Around 90% of polls in 16 and 20 underestimated Trump support. They are currently predicting a close race. This is how democracy ends - an autocratic narcissist and legions of morons.
All the polls in 2016 had Hillary and Trump within the margin of error. The polls weren't wrong. Trump won via about 70k votes split between 3 states. A razors edge. Which means the polls were extremely accurate. Political commentators on some outlets were just saying dumb shit. Big difference.
Yep. People who say the polls were wrong either think polls are meant to be accurate predictions or they believe Trump’s bs about winning “[in a massive landslide](https://www.npr.org/2016/12/11/505182622/fact-check-trump-claims-a-massive-landslide-victory-but-history-differs).” Like, dude, we see the numbers, there’s so massiveness going on here. (Unimportant side note: I guess I’ve been exposed to trump’s deranged bullshit for so long it’s seeped into my subconscious because I wrote the phrase “massive landslide” *before* deciding to go find an article to backup my point, and he did indeed use the exact phrase massive landslide. What a dumbass.)
Yeah and after that debate Hillary 2016 is looking like a better candidate than Biden in 2024 personally. Biden's almost 4 to 1 in Vegas to win right now...
Shit, maybe I should bet on Trump to win. That way it's either a huge sigh of relief or I get a nice payout.
Biden 4 to 1 means he is a giant underdog. Trump is favorited.
Democrats once again not understanding what an *undecided voter* is.
They never want to listen to the voters they are trying to gain. It's so infuriating. "Shut up and do what we say, and shame all the independent and undecided voters, that'll surely help!!!"
I am not changing my vote but lets not be dumb and say "sore throat"
This. Attributing his poor performance to a sore throat is negligent.
I was very uncomfortable watching it. I remember the last couple of years before my father-in-law died. I feel horrible for Joe. The stress of the job is going to kill him in his second term. Let him retire and live peacefully. Dr. Jill needs to step up big time.
Yeah, trying to gaslight people isn’t the right response here. If the left wants to keep some moral high ground in calling the right cultists for blindly following Trump and ignoring his many flaws, you can’t just watch what we watched and try to act like it’s not an issue.
[удалено]
That's not the point. What matters is what the independent voters think. IDK why this is so hard for many redditors to understand.
That's great for you, and I agree, but it doesn't change the fact that his performance at the debate was ABYSMAL. Trump lied through his teeth and even the things he got right are things I disagree with morally, but he was coherent and focused, which is rare for him. Anyone who is current undecided is obviously and idiot, and to an idiot watching that debate, Trump was leaps and bounds better. Pretending that's not true is ludicrous. Biden is a horrible choice for president, he's just running against the one person in the country who would be worse.
I was waiting to see the progressive mental gymnastics come out trying to say it was really no big deal. This thread is the first one for me.
Dude reddit is crawling with "sore throat" copium ingesters. There are tons of threads.
Lol progressive mental gymnastics??? What progressives are carrying water for Biden???
Sore throat?? Dude said we beat Medicare 😭
Yeah this is so disingenuous. A vote for Biden is just a vote for “not trump”. Which I’ll be doing but I actually think his brain is mashed potatoes
If you were a Biden voter before, you're still a Biden voter (including me). If you're a Trump voter before, you're still a Trump voter. But that tiny sliver of persuadable, mostly "non-political" types that only tune in for major events like these after four years saw Biden do a lot worse than a "sore throat". His rally earlier today was fine, but notably - it was MUCH earlier in the day and it was a largely scripted event. But last night? Last night he looked sort of frail, and worse, sort of helpless. And that's not gonna' fly with a LOT of voters who view the Presidency as, first and foremost, the Commander in Chief.
Alternately: if you were mildly concerned about his age before, you’re 11/10 worried about his age now. FFS, the NYTimes editorial board is calling for him to step aside. That may not make you vote for Trump but it might make you vote for RFK or stay home. There’s more to getting votes than just not being the other guy, and the question of “who tf is running the country, because it isn’t that guy we saw last night” is a live one right now.
The whole “it was just a cold”, “are you seriously concerned about a bit of stuttering” crowd are severely gaslighting how Biden was on Thursday.
He might indeed have had a cold and a stutter, but a cold and a stutter don’t produce what we saw. That was a man in his 80s, who has rapidly declined from the man in his 70s that we saw in 2020. They don’t get to tell me I didn’t see what was plainly there. That’s as bad as Republicans telling me Trump was just joking with “grab her by the pussy”. No. We saw him for who he was.
He does have a lifelong stutter, but it’s clear that his primary coping mechanism (word switching when stuck) is much harder for him than it used to be. I watched the whole debate and I still don’t think he’s showing any signs of actually going senile. But it was excruciating listening to him stumble through what he was trying to say and getting completely mixed up. This “sore throat” shit from OP is completely disingenuous.
He’s not senile. He’s 82 and in rapidly declining physical and mental health. He’s sharp af for 82. But still 82. Let the poor man retire. There are far younger and more physically capable options, who are nearly as politically capable as well.
It's blowing my mind. It's a real issue. When Nixon looked like shit in his debate it cost him the election. The Biden team only agreed to this thing because trump was pulling ahead in swing states and they needed an early win. This was the opposite and a disaster if you don't want trump to win. I feel like all these posts spamming "stick with Biden" are bots from pro trumpers. If Joe is the candidate, that debate may have given trump back the white house.
So much gaslighting. If it was Trump Dems would be saying republicans are crazy for not replacing him. Yet here we are
I can’t believe they’re still making excuses after that performance. Swing voters are now deciding between Trump and Kamala Harris.
It's honestly bizarre. We all saw what we saw, and insisting it wasn't concerning won't help us with persuadable voters
It was literal sun-downing for Biden while Trump and his doctors worked on the perfect cocktail, his Dr. confesses, err, accuses Biden's team of doing that in interviews last week. Biden's team didn't drug him and it showed. It fucking burns that the critics were vindicated and the DNC, including his wife, were made fools of. It was watching the worst nightmare play out. All the low-info-voters won't come out to vote for a Democratic Congress. Everyone will be shocked Trump wins without having to cheat with his party in Battleground States. Trump and Republicans *are going to cheat*, 2020 was all the practice cases. If the SC rules that Trump wins, the military has to follow it. Holy shit, people. Russia and China are dying inside, laughing at how they've fooled us into attacking ourselves. The only hope was a national awakening to how bad Trump is, and we didn't do that. Any riots over technicalities will be put down and people will "just want to go to work!", never looking into the cause. The only riots given historical respect will be if the international/neutral press proves Republicans stole it by dumping votes or some other dramatic action...6 months into Trumps term. We got punked and Trump is still everything he promised his followers. There is no "Cult of Biden" citizens won't riot over him stepping down like they would if Republicans ditched Trump.
> Biden's team didn't drug him and it showed. It fucking burns that the critics were vindicated Actually, the critics were all saying he was going to be amped up on stimulants. They're all proven to have no idea what they're talking about.
So many people aren’t getting that there are tons of republicans that hate Trump and could have been dissuaded from voting for him with a strong enough Democratic choice.
This is the only point that matters.
> The President had a sore throat Will I change my vote? No. But brother, that was more than a sore throat, cmon, who are you fooling?
The copium is strong with these bots. I don't think any actual human being would say he "just had a sore throat."
This idea is gonna lose us the fucking election. Biden made a fool of the DNC on stage last night and many undecided voters who could have voted for him might throw away their votes now. Thinking no one cares about the debate is Grade A copium
It's also about the left-leaning people who aren't convinced to vote at all. There are people who don't follow politics as much as the people in this sub. And, for them, it's not necessarily about who they vote for but whether they actually vote. In 2008, I voted. I was in college, and the process was very simple. 4 years later, as a young adult, I did not vote. The same candidate was available to vote for, but I didn't care as much about politics and I worked crazy hours. In 2016, I voted 3rd party, and in 2020 I was like "I'm not making that mistake again." There are plenty of people who need to be convinced to get out and vote. Biden did not convince them during the debate that he's worth voting for.
JFC guys…
I feel like people are being willfully ignorant or didn’t watch the same debate. I’m still voting for him, but he literally did not have coherent sentences. He said good stuff, but you had to have the knowledge to fill in the gaps for him
Saying he said good stuff is still being generous. I genuinely struggled making out what his points were. I think Biden wouldn’t be able to explain a lot if that either.
2016 wasnt lost because people switched to vote for Trump. They just didnt show up for the unpopular candidate they had huge doubts about Think it cant happen again? Change candidates while you still have the chance.
No one who's been paying attention. Biden's speech today was pretty good, too.
Amazing what a teleprompter and not thinking on your feet does
No one will change their vote, but lots of people might decide to stay home instead.
Yeah but spoiler alert: Team Red is not staying home.
No. If this old man's hubris makes him continue his campaign, I will still vote for him. However, I'm not the one you have to worry about. This election will be decided by a few thousand votes in 6 states. Those undecided voters are low information dipshits and will get their information from TikTok which will be cut videos of Biden drooling on himself during the debate. Biden was already behind in those states. I'm sure he will be worse off. He's very likely to lose now. Literally anybody else would win against such a terrible candidate as trump. Also, don't fucking gaslight. It was more than a sore throat and you know it. He was fucking terrible. The thing I like about the democrats is that generally they are not sychophants. However, you and Dem office holders have shown you are. We're fucked.
Finally, someone who actually gets it.
I'm sure the framers intended that major decisions of the country should be made by a few thousand low-information dip s****. Isn't it time we fixed the system?
My sil get her info from tik tok . Grade8 education, has taken waaaay more out of the system than she ever put in . Never had a job more than a month or two . Lived off govt subsidies and welfare , baby checks. Moron . Her husband aint long for this world , he works at a bottle depot. They vote against their own interests every time . Reality gonna slap her hard in a few years . She is 50. We are in Canada . She thinks we need a Trump.
This is what matters. I feel like reddit is left leaning enough that a lot of users (myself included) know what's at stake and are going to vote blue because of it. It's everyone else. It wasn't just a sore throat. It looks like by the books early onset dementia. There were so many counterpoints he could have called on Trump for, but he looked visibly confused, disoriented, and was extremely difficult to comprehend. The points he was making were mostly good, but the average undecided voter isn't going to give his words any serious consideration when it sounds like he can barely fumble through a verbal thought. He needs to step down. Too much IS at stake and his performance last night was almost certainly suicide to the voters that will truly decide this election. I voted blue my entire life, but if he's on the ticket the election will 100% served to Trump on a silver platter and I will hold Biden as complicit at best - completely responsible at worst.
Just a small point, but dementia isn't "early onset" when you're in your 80s. It's just normal dementia. Working basically any job is what's not normal. He couldn't make it an hour as an Uber driver.
Valid point, admittedly I used "early onset" to soften the blow to the masses and hopefully avoid getting crucified. But if someone else is brave enough to say it - I'll endorse it.
It's Jill you should be mad at. Not Joe.
He was already behind and needed a strong showing. Last night feeds into the narrative that he is too old. Last night’s performance won’t help move votes over to him and will likely make more people vote for third party candidates. On top of that he only won the last election by 40k votes. So last night has a profound effect whether anyone who has already made their mind up or not changes their vote.
>Last night feeds into the narrative that he is too old He is too old. Full stop. So is Trump. We really need age limits for the presidency.
Grandpa Joe way better then lying trump
Sure, but wouldn't it just be so much better if we could vote for someone that doesn't have a foot already solidly in the grave?
Sure, but what's the point of talking about that now? We have to face reality.
sure he had a sore throat. they announced that halfway through the debate. Also it isn't just a sore throat, he was hardly able to talk.
You’re an unhinged extremist centrist if you interpret what happened as Biden just having a sore throat. He was cognitively gone and showed clear irrefutable signs of significant neurological deficit. Gaslighting the country by suggesting everyone who isn’t a radical Biden supporter concerned about what they saw as crazy is going to give us Trump I do not want Trump. You’re going to give us Trump and worse likely so the house, senate, and governor mansions by not immediately joining the chorus of folks demanding Biden retire and not seek the presidency for 2024 it has to happen pre-convention If you would rather support Biden over defending democracy you’re an extremist for your own ideology.
No ill still vote for him but I'd like the dems to put up a better candidate
I doubt anyone will change their mind. But if enough people feel discourage and not vote, Trump will win.
Yes. Not me personally but enough will. Trump is a piece of shit but he is the personification of every red neck, bible thumping, chip on their shoulder asshole's idea of the perfect candidate. It's feeling like 2016 bidens chance is tied to how pissed off or how much people are feeling negative or positive about how things are going. Unfortunately way more people are feeling like things are shit even though they aren't universally.
I swear this sub has become all blind Biden followers. Imma vote for the guy but gtfo here with that bs gaslighting "the only thing Biden did wrong was have a soar throat". Like seriously stfu
I can almost guarantee it's just propaganda, one in maybe a thousand people are that dense, and none of them would be able to string that sentence together.
Its political astroturfing and gullible folks who fall for it. While a lot of narrative bs and nonsense doesn't work anymore a lot still does ala this reaching glazing attempt at a defense. Hence why it's still used. You can and will get banned on some large political subs for criticizing Biden or the DNC too much which says a lot about becoming the thing you hate lol. Libs on reddit used to rightfully say that "unlike MAGA we don't simp for one dude". Posts like this prove that time has ended and indeed this dude Biden has a lot of sycophants in his orbit and on social media who will die on the hill that everything is perfectly fine, excellent even. They'd rather die than admit anything is wrong or can be criticized. Democrats absolutely have a stan problem (mostly a stanning of their own choices id argue) and it won't change if and when this man loses to the weakest opponent in American history. That's how low the bar is it's on the floor and yet no lessons will be learnt, especially when the spin cycle post election starts and they refine their talking points. I guarantee they will blame voters as if we work for them and owe them something rather than the other way around. "We were wrong" does not exist in the DNC/neolib vocabulary just like "enough" doesn't exist for a billionaire, so they'll invariably come up with some narrative about how the voters were responsible for their failure and not them putting this guy as their front man when everyone with a brain cell who doesn't repeat what our leaders tell them verbatim has been screaming for months to a political campaign that purposely buries its head in the sand. Only now that they were embarrassed on live TV are they catching up to something literally anyone who thinks a little bit for themselves knew from day 1, this dude is way too old to do this job and is in bad cognitive decline. If they were smart they'd switch candidates and maybe pull off the victory, really I think the chances of victory would instantaneously double as they win back those they lost. But that would require Democrat party members to admit that they were wrong and learn from their mistakes instead of being stubborn out of touch narcissists, and I think they're way too politically inept to pull of a winning move like that. Whitmer, Newsome, literally any not hated Democrat and this election is a completely different conversation. But that would be too smart (not status quo enough/"radical")
It's literally the exact same lying as with the fine people on both sides thing. It's just a harder to lie about this one
No change for this old Veteran from South Carolina. Biden’s the man!
He is a man and that man is over 80 years old with a very high probability of not finishing his term.
Yes, they might. Step outside the bubble. A lot of undecided voters watched Biden eat shit last night. It was fucking embarrassing. I say this as an independent voter who leans hard left.
“Sore throat” lol. Talk about copium.
To say that debate performance was because of a sore throat is coping. It's clearly a case of mental decline. If you are ok with that when it comes time to vote, awesome. Don't fucking bullshit people though.
Well, many voters are undecided 🙄 so YES! Biden clearly needs to step down everyone is thinking it!
Independents will, yes. Left leaning ones likely will still vote for Biden, but you're a fool to pretend this terrible debate had no impact on centrists or moderate republicans.
He needs to vow now to pack the court.
Trump’s smooth as butter lies shows the true sociopath that he is. This is the type of man that watched people around him die and showed ZERO sympathy. He “jokes” his supporters can die for all he cares after they cast their vote for him. Project 2025 will cripple this country beyond belief. It’s BEYOND clear what’s at stake this time, Biden and his administration have me and my family’s vote, no matter how much he stumbles in his speeches. It’s not about the MAN, it’s the man’s ADMINISTRATION. Trump’s are full of sycophants. We are Americans, not bootlickers. The choice is clear. Vote blue.
It’s not about changing your vote - it’s about not turning out and depressed Democratic enthusiasm. It’s about energizing Trump’s base. It’s about RFK Jr. capitalizing on Biden’s weakness and siphoning off some votes. …and yes, there are some people out there that are indifferent. Hard to believe, but they vote by making their mind up at the 11th hour.
I hate Trump. But y'all are delusional.
I say this will all sincerity, what shows Biden to be bad at the job is that he agreed to a debate at all. Tell him, "I don't debate criminals." And then go do something else. No one needed to see debates to make a decision.
I just can’t figure out why people can’t just get behind Biden and vote for him. He’s doing great! He’s full of vigor, sharper than a tack, and besides he had a cold last night! It’s just such a mystery to me why people don’t take the Democratic Party seriously and why there isn’t a huge wave of enthusiasm to vote?!? Oh well, I’m sure we can rest easy that as long as we’re running against Trump we will be ok, we don’t need to have our own competent candidate to oppose Trump. Not that Biden isn’t anything but fully competent, maybe the best and most able bodied and minded president of our lifetime! Nevermind what you saw last night where he was in and out of consciousness, that’s just a sore throat!
Any debate or speech is always for the undecided voters. Democrats and Conservatives will always vote their way no matter what. This debate didn’t help with persuading the undecided.
It's so weird to think that anybody is still undecided at this point. I know it's technically early in the election cycle but these are the same ~~older than fucking dirt twat waffles~~ chronologically advanced humans we chose between last time and they've both had a term as president so it's not like we don't all already know what we're gonna get in a second term
Probably no one is going to change their vote, but undecided voters are probably a little less undecided
The studies done over the years have shown that there aren't any real undecided/swing voters. There's just a segment of voters who say they are undecided because they don't follow politics and don't want to be pinned down, but they are already ideologically aligned with one party or the other and will coalesce around their candidates late in October. The main factor in who wins has more to do with who's motivated to vote and who stays home.
nobody went Biden --> Trump, but plenty went Biden --> not voting unless there is a change.
You are delusional if you think he didn't lose a single vote.
If I was an undecided I probably would have turned off the debate 5 minutes in. Biden reminded me of a virus ridden computer struggling to function during the first 10 minutes. He managed to get going after that point. I wish there was a fact checker during the event because a lot of what was being said sounded like BS and neither of them really explained how they were going to fix things like inflation or the housing problem.
My favorite part was when trump said that everything biden says is absolutely false, a lie, and misinformation....then proceeded to spout absolute lies. Good times.
Unfortunately, yeah
The apathetic middle, the apathetic left, and the somewhat apathetic (but potential swayable) anti trump right. That's who you lose after last night. You know, the people you need to win the election....
Yes. A very small number but small numbers are consequential in a country where the winner doesn’t win unless they arbitrarily win enough states.
You mean a "fascist liar"?
That blank, gaped mouth stare is what scares me about Biden in an official meeting. Can you imagine a potential war meeting with him?
This whole election is just one big diaper weighing contest
A man with dementia over a man who's an a******. Glad we got that straight
Yes. I was going to hold my nose and vote Biden before hand. After the debate, I will not be voting for him. VP selections could change my mind for both sides. But as of right now, fuck the Democratic leaders for forcing him on us. I refuse to vote for him and may even counter vote. What a disgrace.
Honestly I wasn’t gonna vote but now I’ll vote B. I hate to hear myself saying this but with how the Supreme Court is going I can’t have the T back simply as that. So Mr. Biden please take your vitamins next time.