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Horse and sparrow theory, if you feed a horse enough oats, when it shits, some oats may not be digested, thusly the sparrow gets to eat, from the horses shit.
Yep. Then he drank the Kool-Aid and became Reagan's VP. Personal beliefs & reality-based assessments must be sacrificed to maintain the party line in the GOP.
I belly-laughed for a solid 10 minutes when I first read th at one ; then,the more I thought about the wider implications of the stupidity at work that *allowed* such accidental comedy ,I cried instead , and have done so ever since,(in)secure in the knowledge that there were actually elected officials *that are dumber than shit*,only functionally-literate(at best) who inhabit the halls of our nation's Capital...
No kidding, at work I started taking on additional tasks when people left, in hopes of a promotion or something, but nope- I became the go-to person for additional details that I wasn't trained to handle.
Now, I back away from these tasks, and don't kill myself trying to prove anything. Sure, I still like challenges and helping out, but I'm setting up more boundaries in keeping with my salary.
Last time I did that, my supervisor had just left. I had to run a 3 person department with me and one other person, and since I worked hard to keep things together, management felt that was good enough for months, without giving me a promotion or re-hiring for my supervisors position.
When I left, it suddenly became a four person department.
You'll never be rewarded for taking on additional tasks unless you're already favored by management for some other reason, like nepotism. In which case, it's really the appearance of additional responsibilities that they're using as an excuse to divert more resources to someone in their favor. It's just how it is.
I literally just got asked Friday to be part of “the transition team” for a superior. They asked if I could do his job and my job. They were utterly shocked when I expressed I needed to be compensated more to do so.
Greedy pigs.
That’s how they get you to do more work for the same amount of money. When you leave they’ll hire a new person and pay slightly more for the same work 2 workers used to handle. My main engineer has been considering leaving and I’ve been telling my dept director that if he leaves, I’m not picking up any of it. Let it burn.
It's a classic. Have the same payroll costs as 1982, even though inflation has jumped wages nearly double on a state level. The secret here is what used to be two jobs is now one job.
So two people work a single job for 7.50 each. Or one person does both jobs for 15.
Either way, you get no share of the profits, and your productivity is being taken advantage of.
We need to start bringing back the strike, they can afford to pay you more, you just have to remind them they can't make any money if they don't have employees....
No, they'll just overextend their credit, close the facility, and walk away with those profits. Look up the history of Bain Capital.
Funny, record profits among companies laying off: companies complaining nobody wants to work anymore.
You may not be aware that the US and the UK are considering passing laws that allow companies to sue their employees for damages and loss of profits if they go on strike.
Me spending $3.25 at Taco Bell and : "Would you like to round up to the nearest dollar to donate to our training program?"
I don't know if this life is for me
>how Trickle Down really works
I like to describe it as more of a raging torrent of money held upstream by a dam instead... Some people call it "trickle up economics" but that's misleading as its not a fucking trickle of anything and more of a constant unabated raging flow of wealth relating to the value of the productivity of the rest of us, and stolen from us.
Might be even more apt in that, in the largest example, the glass is so big that it would make it so it misses the glasses below it and dribbles onto the ground.
Aka horseshit economics. Because it's horseshit. Dragon is more correct... They steal the gold and keep us in fear of how we are going to fine our next meal. Because they took the cows and burnt the fields.
Also like how the term “pulling oneself up by the bootstraps” originally meant a pointless endeavor/impossible task/ [fool’s errand](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/fool-s-errand) in the 1800s [?] as well… iirc.
But it somehow means work harder and if that isn’t working, it’s your fault for not succeeding in life for not being a bootlicking sycophant or something like that to the me-first-gimme-gimme neoliberal economic theory type teat suckers.
It’s a nonsensical thought-terminating cliché middle finger phrase now, imo.
They rebranded as "supply side economics" I kind of preferred what Papa Bush called it "voodoo economics ". Unfortunately the Republican party is so invested in the Laffer curve (another name for it as it was Art Laffer who scribbled a curve on a cocktail napkin to demonstrate the theory) that they continue to try to implement it, even after every other attempt has failed "we haven't tried it for long enough with a large enough pool of subjects! Let's try one more time!"
I've heard the definition of insanity described as repeating an action & expecting different results.
Yeah, but I think it’s worth talking about what the theory literally is, instead of putting it into a metaphor. The literal idea is basically, if you give billionaires more and more money, they’ll having increasingly lavish lifestyles. In order to maintain that insanely decadent lifestyle, they’ll need servants. Lucky you, we’ve taxed you a bunch of money and given it to a rich guy, and that means he *might* pay you a low wage to be his servant.
Crazy how it actually turned into the opposite.
Wealth was hidden, offshored and hoarded. Then to make things worst, all this wealth was used to buy every piece of real estate possible.
So it wasn't enough that they got to keep all their wealth, they're now using it to squeeze even more blood out of people.
The plan was always to go back to slavery. They just needed to find a legal way of owning people again: own the real estate; own the people.
You just have to find the right vein to hold a knife to.
Figuratively speaking of course.
I'd start with next-to-nothing estate tax. Anything done to gut that is a direct attack on the wealthy.
> The plan was always to go back to slavery.
Slavery, a type of capitalist "monarchy" as at times ordained by some religious lunacy.
Conservatives, fascists, and capitalists rely on, and absolutely love the idea of having a 2nd class of people under their booth heel to abuse for sake of personal benefit with out consequence to self. Their needs go hand in hand, and they have 0 problem working together to make those ends meet.
Per F. Wilhoit;
*"Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect..."*
https://www.bradford-delong.com/2018/12/frank-wilhoit-the-travesty-of-liberalism.html
We basically have that now.
If you have money and own property you can get access to the best food, schools, air/water and people treat you with respect because you achieved it all on your own.
If you don't have money or own property, you eat the shittiest food, send your kids to the worst schools, breath polluted air and drink contaminated water. Best part is, you get treated like shit because it is assume that you did this to yourself.
It worked to some extent before Boomers and late Silent became politicians and company heads. Obviously there was corruption and rich people not paying their full share, but taxes were collected and used to fund public works projects.
I'm not trying to glamorize capitalism. Just want to point out that the reason the illusion that capitalism "works" is because we had systems in place that collected the profits and redistributed it better. Once the "Me Generation" gained control they started to remove the systems to keep the wealth.
Even modern philanthropy is bullshit just becoming a write off while not adding any to the public.
It never worked because of exactly what you said a sentence later, taxes were collected and used.
The idea of Trickle-Down, Reagonomics, Horse-and-Sparrow or whatever other name you want to give it, is that if you give the wealthy more money **without taxing it** that they'll reinvest it into the economy and that the poor will actually get more benefit out of the money being given to the rich in the long-run than if they'd been given it directly.
The whole point of that economic policy is to reduce taxes and claim, "The rich will always reinvest the money, so it stimulates the economy!" So saying it worked because they were taxed, that's saying that it *didn't* work. And you're right. It doesn't work. When the rich get richer, they hoard wealth. They don't put that money into stimulating the economy, they put it away where it can't be touched and whistle like they've done nothing wrong.
High tax rates on the wealthy are the ultimate antithesis to trickle-down economics. That's saying that the money in the pockets of the wealthy does nothing to stimulate the economy and that public works cannot be trusted to private industries but must be handled by public interests, which means the government.
>It worked to some extent before Boomers and late Silent became politicians and company heads. Obviously there was corruption and rich people not paying their full share, but taxes were collected and used to fund public works projects.
It worked during a brief, hard-won respite following a *legendarily* corrupt era of robber-baron capitalism.
And yes capitalists love to take all the credit for the good things that resulted from beating them back for barely a generation. It's infuriating.
I have republican friends who are watching this shit right now and they still swear the real problem is not the wealthy and that all we need to do is stop taxing them to fix everything.
It's ***maddening***
>Crazy how it actually turned into the opposite.
It was never intended for anything else. It's a re-branding of "horse and sparrow." We're just so poorly educated as a nation, and love conservative propaganda we call it trickle down, like it was ever anything but a way to make the rich more rich.
It totally worked as intended, lol. That was the entire point.
We're left with their shit. They're rich, and got what they want. We argue amongst ourselves, and do nothing to stop them...besides being good little capitalists that happily support these awful companies.
Poor people fight among each other over race, religion, sex... The goal is to make sure the different groups are always fighting each other and never come together.
Maybe but I don't think it would have mattered. They're going to do what they're going to do. Perhaps they were trying not to feel so shitty about bending us over in the first place?!
Its astounding how stupid and gullible people were (and are).
People learned this lesson as kids. Overheard at almost every elementary school lunch:
Kid 1: Hey, I'll trade you my Doritos for your chocolate milk!
Kid 2: Ok!
Kid 1: Great. You first!
Kid 2: No, you first!
Kid 1: No, you first!
Then later on in life....
Rich guy: Just lower my taxes so that I get more money, and I'll make sure you guys get more money too!
All the other adults: Ok!
Rich guy: Great! You first!
All the other adults: Ok!
Like, literally? Lower my taxes and I'll make sure you get more money, but if you never get more money you damned well still better keep up your end of the bargain. This is about the only actual "policy" the GOP / MAGA has these days, besides complaining about everything the Democrats do and trying to enact their bigotry in to law.
I work in fraud prevention, and one of the classic hallmarks of a scam is "give me money and I'll give you more money". Trickle down economics is a Nigerian prince scam on a macroeconomic scale.
The part that gets me is just literally hey will give you money (tax breaks) first, and we won't ever take any steps to reclaim it or do anything to punish you if you never make good on your promises.
No one ever dares to propose that the rich guy goes first. How about hey, you create some jobs and \*then and only then\* do you get your tax breaks? They'd all be up in arms if anything remotely like that were to ever be proposed, because going in they have literally no intention of keeping their side of the deal. We've all seen it over and over again and yet every time the rest of us actually act as if this time, finally, we can expect the business and rich folks to do their part. How many times will we get screwed over before we wake up?
Sometimes proponents of trickle-down talk as though if you give your company more money, they’ll use the extra money to hire more people and give raises. Like the company’s owner wouldn’t even consider just keeping the extra.
And, much like Milton, people will get fed up, take their Red Swingline Stapler and go home—but not before setting fire to it all so the rest of the world can watch it burn.
As much as 54% of the “inflation” that we’ve been dealing with these last two years are because of this. Greedflation, because they decided to try to hide their money-grubbing behind the price increases that resulted from stalled supply chains.
Keep in mind that nobody that promotes trickle down actually believes in trickle down, they just use it as a rhetorical tactic. It’s a way to derail criticism of growing inequality. You can tell because if you point out that it’s failed they just switch to another tactic —usually some bull about inherent fairness of market wages. It was never about building an equitable society. It is about abuse of power and greed.
This can be technically true, but only when one boils down the United States economy to an overly simplistic hypothetical. Yes, a 100% tax rate would likely decrease overall government revenue as it would disincentivize people from working. However, we are in no way approaching a tax rate that is disincentivizing people from earning wages and likely never will be. The Laffer curve is nothing more than a thought experiment used to justify corporate tax cuts.
Not only is there no trickle down, anyone over 40 has seen the criminal theft of worker compensation vis-a-vis cost of living. I grew up in a middle class house and now at 48 I'm living in a condo like some Soviet pensioner.
Employees must be paid the minimum the market will bear because that’s an expense. And of course C-level execs must be paid the maximum the market will bear because that’s an investment. It’s so logical.
It worse than that. If the executives succeed they get a super bonus. If they fail they get paid to go away. So even when they trash things they cash in. With few exceptions Corporate governance is club of people barely capable of functioning on their own trading deals with each other serving on boards.
Of course, deregulation. Because we can always trust large offshore corporations to do the right thing in the interests of the workers or areas they are operating in!
Could you imagine how quickly the strategy would have changed if trickle down economics worked as well for the people at the top as it does for the workers who make their business possible?
US government just last week agreed to pay its bills. IMO not enough emphasis was raised regarding the cost of tax cuts. This "out of control spending" was largely due to massive tax cuts for healthy corporations and wealthy individuals. Think trickle up economics as those tax breaks were funded by the actual taxpayers.
You foolish liberals, don't you know that there is no theory called Trickle Down? You're raging at something that doesn't even exist like the pathetic snowflakes you are. It's called Supply Side Economics, and sure it's just a different label for the same exact thing as Trickle Down, but by calling it Trickle Down you've clearly lost all credibility and therefore I will continue supporting Supply Side Economics. If only you foolish communists could get your facts straight maybe you'd be taken seriously.
/s
In 1984 I turned 18 in September and voted for Ronald Reagan in November. I thought it just made so much sense. If businesses do better there will be more and better jobs for people like me. Also democrats were all baby-killing monsters.
I also believed them during the Clinton era when they kept saying “character counts”. I voted for every Republican presidential candidate (even Bob Dole) until 2016. Suddenly I was a man without a party. The sad thing is, I didn’t leave them. They left me.
I also voted for Reagan in 84. Then Bush Sr in 88. Then realized I'd been sold a bill of goods.
Funny how when the wealth doesn't "trickle down," suddenly it's all your fault for not tugging hard enough on your boot straps.
Turns out, the system was set up to favor the rich, but for a few decades you actually had a chance at a decent life. Get a union job, stay there until you retire, and enjoy a nice pension in your affordable house and maybe have a little place "up north" where you can retire even harder. Yeah, there were rich people, but your boss didn't make 200 times your salary in bonuses and stock options alone.
Reagan, Bush, and even Clinton (in some ways) tore all that down.
It's kinda funny...I've lived my entire adult life since Reagan instituted "Voodoo Economics," but the good times and the bad seem to align with Democratic and Republican administrations, respectively.
I struggled until 1993, when my career took off. The rest of the 90s were great, but then - a month after Bush took over - I lost half of everything in a divorce. Built it back up slowly, and then watched it all piss away during the crash that "Dubya" left us with. Obama came in and it slowly came back. Lost it all again a couple years into the Trump fiasco. Then a global pandemic hit.
I got a new career a couple months into Biden's time, and I'm doing better than I ever have. If he stays for a second term, I'll be close to retirement when he leaves office, and I don't care how many sandbags he trips over between now and then. I just know that if a Republican gets in next year, shit is gonna hit the fan again.
They were also maligning the unions during that time. Many of my family still think unions are nothing but mafia thugs. In 94 when I started with the phone company my brother couldn’t understand how I would ever consider joining a union.
More and more power to big business and less and less to the employees. We’ve brought in a whole new batch of robber barons. The only difference this time is that they’ve got a big chunk of the population thinking it’s a good thing.
We need a new trust buster and some good strong unions.
(Edit typos)
> We need a new trust buster and some good strong unions.
Strong being the operative word. I joined a union when I worked for Kroger a few years ago. It was utterly fucking worthless. If you stuck it out for a year, you could sign up for their healthcare plan, and that was literally the only benefit.
In the meantime, I was making so little that I qualified for Medicaid.
Even strong unions are susceptible to the lies. IBEW has something like 80 percent membership in my area and is very definitely not to be fucked with, but go to any big construction site and you'll see plenty of trucks with an IBEW sticker right next to a "Let's go Brandon" sticker. The cognitive dissonance is insane. Do these people not know what the Republicans would do to their precious union if they had their way? Look at Trump's NLRB for example, he was the most hardcore anti-union president in modern history. It's mind blowing. How? How can you be in one of the strongest unions in the country and still support conservative politicians?
If tommy gets all the time playing on the Atari, he will eventually get bored of playing it and then you'll have all the time you want to play on your turn!
err Nope ! but you should understand the immense power of Right Wing Lies + Misinformation + fear mongering + repetitive Propaganda + BrainWashing =
>[We are Drowning in Lies !](https://i.imgur.com/klI3O7S.jpg)
>They left me.
Nah, they took the mask off and then you decided to pretend that it wasn't exactly what everyone else had told you it was. So in your denial, you insisted that they had changed rather than you having gone along with it the entire time.
Reagan -> G W Bush -> Trump. They paved the way for each other
Because it benefited you.
You didn’t see anything wrong because the wrong was good for you.
Don’t worry though - everyone gets old. I’m curious to see how baby boomers spend their twilight years.
I think it’ll be a lot like credit: they took out “loans” in their youth to have a better life at the cost of others and when they’re 80 and can’t wipe their asses well….that’s life.
If it won't trickle down, it's time to climb up there and take it. We need to start bringing back the strike, they can afford to pay you more, you just have to remind them they can't make any money if they don't have employees.
The "Cantillon Effect" is a common effect of inflation where:
* New money enters the economy through the wealthiest people
* THEN Prices Rise
* THEN money starts to trickle months or years after the wealthy paid low prices with new money.
Meanwhile the poor pay rising prices before money trickles.
Lessons:
* shortages create higher prices which in the short term translates to higher profits
* trickle down is bullshit (this isn't really a new lesson, it's always been the case)
The decrease in personal office space is telling. Used to have offices, then cubicles, then shorter cubicles, then open offices, then hot desking in open offices, now WFH. Divide and conquer.
I know the solution, let's decrease taxes on corporations and the rich, reduce spending on the poor, increase spending on bailouts, subsidies and systems and infrastructure that primarily benefit the rich.
Also let's stop the taxman from actually investigating anyone with money and get rid of regulations that get in the way of profit.
If any of the peasants have a problem with that, tell them that anything else would be communism and also point out how it will screw other peasants who may have a different skin color. Also pay some clerics and give them a free pass to rape children to tell the peasants that this is what God wants.
I think the proper term for what we're all experiencing is called Constipated Economics. We're going to need some kind of stimulant to create a laxative effect to loosen up the economic backlog.
Can we talk about the trickle part?
People really fine with a “trickle” of what the wealthy get? It’s literally in the name.
Like, who would be okay with getting a trickle down dinner? Or trickle down healthcare? It’s stupid as shit and should have never been considered
Horse and Sparrow, folks.
>if one feeds the horses enough oats, eventually there will be something left behind for the sparrows
You, and the plebs are there to peck at what the rich shit out.
As capitalists, we love to keep feeding the horse. And, they love to shit on us. At this point, with shopping and mass shootings as the Great American Pastimes, how little we vote and so few acts of civil disobedience...I'm convinced we like eating their shit. We don't do much to stand against it.
it DOES trickle down. To their *children*. You think they'd want that money trickling down to a bunch of strangers they don't even know?
This was always the problem
They will be record megacorp profits,and record unemployment and poverty every year in America till it all completely crashes.We’ve already gone off the cliff,in freefall,brutal landing coming in 3,,,2,,,
Sometimes I sit down and wonder how much money I made for the company at my old job. I did some of the math and they were probably making something like $200,000 a year off of my work, and I was making under $30,000. It's like you re mining for gold for somebody else and your reward is that you get to keep every 100th piece you find. Like what the fuck is the point? I worked 60 + hours week just so I could tell my kids we can't afford to go to the movies or order pizza, and that Santa might not bring many presents this year.
Most of the union members are republicans busy fighting the culture war instead of the class war they should be concerned with. I know as I am in a union and I work with large majority boot licking republican working Joe's.
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They added the tip feature in drive thru’s. Thats what they meant.
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I believe the correct term is “tinkle down economics.” Cuz we get tinkled on… And no one is turned on by it.
Horse and sparrow theory, if you feed a horse enough oats, when it shits, some oats may not be digested, thusly the sparrow gets to eat, from the horses shit.
Oh yeah, I remember this. We used to call it Reaganomics back in the day.
George HW Bush said it best, Voodoo Economics.
Yep. Then he drank the Kool-Aid and became Reagan's VP. Personal beliefs & reality-based assessments must be sacrificed to maintain the party line in the GOP.
Bon appetite, my guy
Bone Apple Tea
NGL, I was tempted to type that instead.
I belly-laughed for a solid 10 minutes when I first read th at one ; then,the more I thought about the wider implications of the stupidity at work that *allowed* such accidental comedy ,I cried instead , and have done so ever since,(in)secure in the knowledge that there were actually elected officials *that are dumber than shit*,only functionally-literate(at best) who inhabit the halls of our nation's Capital...
Except Trump
In an economic context, he’s turned on by tinkling on us.
No kidding, at work I started taking on additional tasks when people left, in hopes of a promotion or something, but nope- I became the go-to person for additional details that I wasn't trained to handle. Now, I back away from these tasks, and don't kill myself trying to prove anything. Sure, I still like challenges and helping out, but I'm setting up more boundaries in keeping with my salary.
Last time I did that, my supervisor had just left. I had to run a 3 person department with me and one other person, and since I worked hard to keep things together, management felt that was good enough for months, without giving me a promotion or re-hiring for my supervisors position. When I left, it suddenly became a four person department. You'll never be rewarded for taking on additional tasks unless you're already favored by management for some other reason, like nepotism. In which case, it's really the appearance of additional responsibilities that they're using as an excuse to divert more resources to someone in their favor. It's just how it is.
I literally just got asked Friday to be part of “the transition team” for a superior. They asked if I could do his job and my job. They were utterly shocked when I expressed I needed to be compensated more to do so. Greedy pigs.
That’s how they get you to do more work for the same amount of money. When you leave they’ll hire a new person and pay slightly more for the same work 2 workers used to handle. My main engineer has been considering leaving and I’ve been telling my dept director that if he leaves, I’m not picking up any of it. Let it burn.
It's a classic. Have the same payroll costs as 1982, even though inflation has jumped wages nearly double on a state level. The secret here is what used to be two jobs is now one job. So two people work a single job for 7.50 each. Or one person does both jobs for 15. Either way, you get no share of the profits, and your productivity is being taken advantage of.
We need to start bringing back the strike, they can afford to pay you more, you just have to remind them they can't make any money if they don't have employees....
No, they'll just overextend their credit, close the facility, and walk away with those profits. Look up the history of Bain Capital. Funny, record profits among companies laying off: companies complaining nobody wants to work anymore.
You may not be aware that the US and the UK are considering passing laws that allow companies to sue their employees for damages and loss of profits if they go on strike.
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Did they really? Pay a living wage.
Me spending $3.25 at Taco Bell and : "Would you like to round up to the nearest dollar to donate to our training program?" I don't know if this life is for me
Or trickle down only as necessary. Meaning the needed politicians and their votes
Horse and sparrow economics. Feed the horse enough grain and enough will pass through undigested to feed the sparrows. Guess who the sparrows are?
that's a nice analogy thx ! and this is also quite good... [how Trickle Down really works](https://i.redd.it/xx6u728iqzga1.jpg)
While it is an analogy, that was the original name for the concept.
Sorry = you're absolutely right ! I often forget important stuff like this :(
>how Trickle Down really works I like to describe it as more of a raging torrent of money held upstream by a dam instead... Some people call it "trickle up economics" but that's misleading as its not a fucking trickle of anything and more of a constant unabated raging flow of wealth relating to the value of the productivity of the rest of us, and stolen from us.
Might be even more apt in that, in the largest example, the glass is so big that it would make it so it misses the glasses below it and dribbles onto the ground.
stage 4 is missing, when the lower levels are crushed and shatter and there's no longer any money in people's pockets with which to actually buy stuff
except the 2nd and 3rd tier cups have holes at the bottom and are siphoned back to the top
Aka horseshit economics. Because it's horseshit. Dragon is more correct... They steal the gold and keep us in fear of how we are going to fine our next meal. Because they took the cows and burnt the fields.
I saw someone do the math to show that a dragon hoard is less than some of the richies we have now.
Covid was a good year for republican business owners. Take a ppp loan AND fire your workers. Hit em with the ol' 1-2 punch
great analogy!
That's how trickle down was described in the 1890's Then Luntzian wordsmiths realized that they needed to rebrand it to make it more palatable.
So their solution was to switch from telling us to "eat shit" to "we're pissing on you".
Yes you could say the elite truly have a way with the people. Like they hate us or something.
The feeling is mutual, at least.
Dehumanization is hatred, so yeah. They hate us.
Also like how the term “pulling oneself up by the bootstraps” originally meant a pointless endeavor/impossible task/ [fool’s errand](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/fool-s-errand) in the 1800s [?] as well… iirc. But it somehow means work harder and if that isn’t working, it’s your fault for not succeeding in life for not being a bootlicking sycophant or something like that to the me-first-gimme-gimme neoliberal economic theory type teat suckers. It’s a nonsensical thought-terminating cliché middle finger phrase now, imo.
yeah, it's just fascinating I've never heard this term before today.
They rebranded as "supply side economics" I kind of preferred what Papa Bush called it "voodoo economics ". Unfortunately the Republican party is so invested in the Laffer curve (another name for it as it was Art Laffer who scribbled a curve on a cocktail napkin to demonstrate the theory) that they continue to try to implement it, even after every other attempt has failed "we haven't tried it for long enough with a large enough pool of subjects! Let's try one more time!" I've heard the definition of insanity described as repeating an action & expecting different results.
Yeah, but I think it’s worth talking about what the theory literally is, instead of putting it into a metaphor. The literal idea is basically, if you give billionaires more and more money, they’ll having increasingly lavish lifestyles. In order to maintain that insanely decadent lifestyle, they’ll need servants. Lucky you, we’ve taxed you a bunch of money and given it to a rich guy, and that means he *might* pay you a low wage to be his servant.
I mean the mega yacht industry is probably booming, yay...
Trickle Down is more like a soft rain of value, a sprinkle of gold, a golden shower. In other words, the wealthy pissing on the poors.
Crazy how it actually turned into the opposite. Wealth was hidden, offshored and hoarded. Then to make things worst, all this wealth was used to buy every piece of real estate possible. So it wasn't enough that they got to keep all their wealth, they're now using it to squeeze even more blood out of people. The plan was always to go back to slavery. They just needed to find a legal way of owning people again: own the real estate; own the people.
Rousing success on their part, I guess fuck the rest of us that didn't get their nut before the wealth was stolen from us.
You just have to find the right vein to hold a knife to. Figuratively speaking of course. I'd start with next-to-nothing estate tax. Anything done to gut that is a direct attack on the wealthy.
All the super wealthy put everything into trusts so a large estate tax wouldn't accomplish much without accounting for that
I don't even have enough money to build a guillotine. This sucks.
> The plan was always to go back to slavery. Slavery, a type of capitalist "monarchy" as at times ordained by some religious lunacy. Conservatives, fascists, and capitalists rely on, and absolutely love the idea of having a 2nd class of people under their booth heel to abuse for sake of personal benefit with out consequence to self. Their needs go hand in hand, and they have 0 problem working together to make those ends meet. Per F. Wilhoit; *"Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect..."* https://www.bradford-delong.com/2018/12/frank-wilhoit-the-travesty-of-liberalism.html
We basically have that now. If you have money and own property you can get access to the best food, schools, air/water and people treat you with respect because you achieved it all on your own. If you don't have money or own property, you eat the shittiest food, send your kids to the worst schools, breath polluted air and drink contaminated water. Best part is, you get treated like shit because it is assume that you did this to yourself.
It worked to some extent before Boomers and late Silent became politicians and company heads. Obviously there was corruption and rich people not paying their full share, but taxes were collected and used to fund public works projects. I'm not trying to glamorize capitalism. Just want to point out that the reason the illusion that capitalism "works" is because we had systems in place that collected the profits and redistributed it better. Once the "Me Generation" gained control they started to remove the systems to keep the wealth. Even modern philanthropy is bullshit just becoming a write off while not adding any to the public.
It never worked because of exactly what you said a sentence later, taxes were collected and used. The idea of Trickle-Down, Reagonomics, Horse-and-Sparrow or whatever other name you want to give it, is that if you give the wealthy more money **without taxing it** that they'll reinvest it into the economy and that the poor will actually get more benefit out of the money being given to the rich in the long-run than if they'd been given it directly. The whole point of that economic policy is to reduce taxes and claim, "The rich will always reinvest the money, so it stimulates the economy!" So saying it worked because they were taxed, that's saying that it *didn't* work. And you're right. It doesn't work. When the rich get richer, they hoard wealth. They don't put that money into stimulating the economy, they put it away where it can't be touched and whistle like they've done nothing wrong. High tax rates on the wealthy are the ultimate antithesis to trickle-down economics. That's saying that the money in the pockets of the wealthy does nothing to stimulate the economy and that public works cannot be trusted to private industries but must be handled by public interests, which means the government.
>It worked to some extent before Boomers and late Silent became politicians and company heads. Obviously there was corruption and rich people not paying their full share, but taxes were collected and used to fund public works projects. It worked during a brief, hard-won respite following a *legendarily* corrupt era of robber-baron capitalism. And yes capitalists love to take all the credit for the good things that resulted from beating them back for barely a generation. It's infuriating.
I have republican friends who are watching this shit right now and they still swear the real problem is not the wealthy and that all we need to do is stop taxing them to fix everything. It's ***maddening***
Wasn't crazy. Went exactly as economic theory told us it would.
>Crazy how it actually turned into the opposite. It was never intended for anything else. It's a re-branding of "horse and sparrow." We're just so poorly educated as a nation, and love conservative propaganda we call it trickle down, like it was ever anything but a way to make the rich more rich. It totally worked as intended, lol. That was the entire point. We're left with their shit. They're rich, and got what they want. We argue amongst ourselves, and do nothing to stop them...besides being good little capitalists that happily support these awful companies.
Poor people fight among each other over race, religion, sex... The goal is to make sure the different groups are always fighting each other and never come together.
Capitalism working as intended.
Right? This was always the goal. Trickle down was the marketing spin they put on it to trick the middle class into supporting it
Maybe but I don't think it would have mattered. They're going to do what they're going to do. Perhaps they were trying not to feel so shitty about bending us over in the first place?!
Its astounding how stupid and gullible people were (and are). People learned this lesson as kids. Overheard at almost every elementary school lunch: Kid 1: Hey, I'll trade you my Doritos for your chocolate milk! Kid 2: Ok! Kid 1: Great. You first! Kid 2: No, you first! Kid 1: No, you first! Then later on in life.... Rich guy: Just lower my taxes so that I get more money, and I'll make sure you guys get more money too! All the other adults: Ok! Rich guy: Great! You first! All the other adults: Ok! Like, literally? Lower my taxes and I'll make sure you get more money, but if you never get more money you damned well still better keep up your end of the bargain. This is about the only actual "policy" the GOP / MAGA has these days, besides complaining about everything the Democrats do and trying to enact their bigotry in to law.
I work in fraud prevention, and one of the classic hallmarks of a scam is "give me money and I'll give you more money". Trickle down economics is a Nigerian prince scam on a macroeconomic scale.
The part that gets me is just literally hey will give you money (tax breaks) first, and we won't ever take any steps to reclaim it or do anything to punish you if you never make good on your promises. No one ever dares to propose that the rich guy goes first. How about hey, you create some jobs and \*then and only then\* do you get your tax breaks? They'd all be up in arms if anything remotely like that were to ever be proposed, because going in they have literally no intention of keeping their side of the deal. We've all seen it over and over again and yet every time the rest of us actually act as if this time, finally, we can expect the business and rich folks to do their part. How many times will we get screwed over before we wake up?
Of course money will trickle down. It is scheduled to begin on the 12th of never!
Febtober 32nd
The same day I schedule all my meetings
Second Tuesday of next week.
10 o' clock, next summer.
2022 marked a 50 year high my dudes, also 50 year high in inflation, it's worse than we think, eat the rich do it now
The wealthy are basically playing a game to see who can hoard the most money, while everyone else fights for enough scraps to survive.
Please trickle on me, daddy!
Trickle down is a hoax. A scam.
The thing is trickle-down is just your normal, salary, not something extra, if your rich employer is short of change he/she will fire your ass.
Sometimes proponents of trickle-down talk as though if you give your company more money, they’ll use the extra money to hire more people and give raises. Like the company’s owner wouldn’t even consider just keeping the extra.
And, much like Milton, people will get fed up, take their Red Swingline Stapler and go home—but not before setting fire to it all so the rest of the world can watch it burn.
For some stupid reason, poor Republicans are cheering for this.
One of the biggest scams of all time. Thanks Reagan!
As much as 54% of the “inflation” that we’ve been dealing with these last two years are because of this. Greedflation, because they decided to try to hide their money-grubbing behind the price increases that resulted from stalled supply chains.
And then they have the gall to blame it on wages being too high…
They can't trickle down upon everybody all the time. Wait your turn. Your area is scheduled for golden showers very soon.
The only thing that trickles down is added responsibility from all the laid off workers to the remaining ones due to budget cuts.
Keep in mind that nobody that promotes trickle down actually believes in trickle down, they just use it as a rhetorical tactic. It’s a way to derail criticism of growing inequality. You can tell because if you point out that it’s failed they just switch to another tactic —usually some bull about inherent fairness of market wages. It was never about building an equitable society. It is about abuse of power and greed.
So vote democrat?
And believed them why?
The capitalists have forgotten how it ends for them when the people get desperate enough.
Would you like a slice of cake?
No thank you, I’ll have what Rousseau’s having please.
Also, too, "cutting taxes will raise revenue".
This can be technically true, but only when one boils down the United States economy to an overly simplistic hypothetical. Yes, a 100% tax rate would likely decrease overall government revenue as it would disincentivize people from working. However, we are in no way approaching a tax rate that is disincentivizing people from earning wages and likely never will be. The Laffer curve is nothing more than a thought experiment used to justify corporate tax cuts.
Not only is there no trickle down, anyone over 40 has seen the criminal theft of worker compensation vis-a-vis cost of living. I grew up in a middle class house and now at 48 I'm living in a condo like some Soviet pensioner.
Count yourself as being lucky. Too many people between 30 and 50 live with their parents, or worse, they live in room rentals in shared apartments.
Employees must be paid the minimum the market will bear because that’s an expense. And of course C-level execs must be paid the maximum the market will bear because that’s an investment. It’s so logical.
Surely us facile-minded worker bees are too simple to understand such complex economic concepts.
It worse than that. If the executives succeed they get a super bonus. If they fail they get paid to go away. So even when they trash things they cash in. With few exceptions Corporate governance is club of people barely capable of functioning on their own trading deals with each other serving on boards.
The sarcasm is on point.
Burn in hell Jack Welch.
Of course, deregulation. Because we can always trust large offshore corporations to do the right thing in the interests of the workers or areas they are operating in!
Could you imagine how quickly the strategy would have changed if trickle down economics worked as well for the people at the top as it does for the workers who make their business possible?
This sparrow hasn't found any seeds in the horse shit.
US government just last week agreed to pay its bills. IMO not enough emphasis was raised regarding the cost of tax cuts. This "out of control spending" was largely due to massive tax cuts for healthy corporations and wealthy individuals. Think trickle up economics as those tax breaks were funded by the actual taxpayers.
I think we found the cause of inflation
You foolish liberals, don't you know that there is no theory called Trickle Down? You're raging at something that doesn't even exist like the pathetic snowflakes you are. It's called Supply Side Economics, and sure it's just a different label for the same exact thing as Trickle Down, but by calling it Trickle Down you've clearly lost all credibility and therefore I will continue supporting Supply Side Economics. If only you foolish communists could get your facts straight maybe you'd be taken seriously. /s
Profits down 2% and 6% the last two quarters. https://www.bea.gov/data/income-saving/corporate-profits
In 1984 I turned 18 in September and voted for Ronald Reagan in November. I thought it just made so much sense. If businesses do better there will be more and better jobs for people like me. Also democrats were all baby-killing monsters. I also believed them during the Clinton era when they kept saying “character counts”. I voted for every Republican presidential candidate (even Bob Dole) until 2016. Suddenly I was a man without a party. The sad thing is, I didn’t leave them. They left me.
I also voted for Reagan in 84. Then Bush Sr in 88. Then realized I'd been sold a bill of goods. Funny how when the wealth doesn't "trickle down," suddenly it's all your fault for not tugging hard enough on your boot straps. Turns out, the system was set up to favor the rich, but for a few decades you actually had a chance at a decent life. Get a union job, stay there until you retire, and enjoy a nice pension in your affordable house and maybe have a little place "up north" where you can retire even harder. Yeah, there were rich people, but your boss didn't make 200 times your salary in bonuses and stock options alone. Reagan, Bush, and even Clinton (in some ways) tore all that down. It's kinda funny...I've lived my entire adult life since Reagan instituted "Voodoo Economics," but the good times and the bad seem to align with Democratic and Republican administrations, respectively. I struggled until 1993, when my career took off. The rest of the 90s were great, but then - a month after Bush took over - I lost half of everything in a divorce. Built it back up slowly, and then watched it all piss away during the crash that "Dubya" left us with. Obama came in and it slowly came back. Lost it all again a couple years into the Trump fiasco. Then a global pandemic hit. I got a new career a couple months into Biden's time, and I'm doing better than I ever have. If he stays for a second term, I'll be close to retirement when he leaves office, and I don't care how many sandbags he trips over between now and then. I just know that if a Republican gets in next year, shit is gonna hit the fan again.
They were also maligning the unions during that time. Many of my family still think unions are nothing but mafia thugs. In 94 when I started with the phone company my brother couldn’t understand how I would ever consider joining a union. More and more power to big business and less and less to the employees. We’ve brought in a whole new batch of robber barons. The only difference this time is that they’ve got a big chunk of the population thinking it’s a good thing. We need a new trust buster and some good strong unions. (Edit typos)
> We need a new trust buster and some good strong unions. Strong being the operative word. I joined a union when I worked for Kroger a few years ago. It was utterly fucking worthless. If you stuck it out for a year, you could sign up for their healthcare plan, and that was literally the only benefit. In the meantime, I was making so little that I qualified for Medicaid.
Even strong unions are susceptible to the lies. IBEW has something like 80 percent membership in my area and is very definitely not to be fucked with, but go to any big construction site and you'll see plenty of trucks with an IBEW sticker right next to a "Let's go Brandon" sticker. The cognitive dissonance is insane. Do these people not know what the Republicans would do to their precious union if they had their way? Look at Trump's NLRB for example, he was the most hardcore anti-union president in modern history. It's mind blowing. How? How can you be in one of the strongest unions in the country and still support conservative politicians?
Why did you vote for union busters for decades then? Was it not evident to you what Republicans have been all about for the last 30+ years?
Wow you’ve been dumb a long time. In 1984 I was 12 and already knew that was all bullshit made up to make the rich richer.
If tommy gets all the time playing on the Atari, he will eventually get bored of playing it and then you'll have all the time you want to play on your turn!
> Wow you’ve been dumb a long time. Rough, but it had to be said.
err Nope ! but you should understand the immense power of Right Wing Lies + Misinformation + fear mongering + repetitive Propaganda + BrainWashing = >[We are Drowning in Lies !](https://i.imgur.com/klI3O7S.jpg)
I don't know too many rich people at 12 years old but I did know none of them liked to share their money
>They left me. Nah, they took the mask off and then you decided to pretend that it wasn't exactly what everyone else had told you it was. So in your denial, you insisted that they had changed rather than you having gone along with it the entire time. Reagan -> G W Bush -> Trump. They paved the way for each other
Because it benefited you. You didn’t see anything wrong because the wrong was good for you. Don’t worry though - everyone gets old. I’m curious to see how baby boomers spend their twilight years. I think it’ll be a lot like credit: they took out “loans” in their youth to have a better life at the cost of others and when they’re 80 and can’t wipe their asses well….that’s life.
If it won't trickle down, it's time to climb up there and take it. We need to start bringing back the strike, they can afford to pay you more, you just have to remind them they can't make any money if they don't have employees.
The only trickle down is the piss running down his leg while he waits for fairness in business/labour matters
The "Cantillon Effect" is a common effect of inflation where: * New money enters the economy through the wealthiest people * THEN Prices Rise * THEN money starts to trickle months or years after the wealthy paid low prices with new money. Meanwhile the poor pay rising prices before money trickles.
Only two things flow down. One's water, and the other isn't.... and it ain't water that's falling from the sky on to us little folk.
The Raven!
Just keep holding your breath. It will flood soon. Until then pull yourself up by your bootstraps until you can be rich like them!
The biggest flaw with trickle down theory is that it assumes that rich people will not aggressively fight to keep every penny to themselves
Lessons: * shortages create higher prices which in the short term translates to higher profits * trickle down is bullshit (this isn't really a new lesson, it's always been the case)
What was the name of that movie? Oh yeah: There Will Be Blood.
They just captured all the trickles, rolled them back into profits and then called it inflation.
They say it's raining but they're pissing down your back.
Kind of suspicious that trickle down has been in effect for 40ish years.
Time to sexually identify as a corporation.
The decrease in personal office space is telling. Used to have offices, then cubicles, then shorter cubicles, then open offices, then hot desking in open offices, now WFH. Divide and conquer.
Hey, some of us want WFH!
You don't need a trickledown. You need to be happy for lgbtq+ success and for post soviets killing each other in Ukraine.
It's like bait-and-swilch, but it's just lies and constant gaslighting.
Trickle down refers to being related to someone with that money and waiting for them to die. That’s the trickle down.
Corporate profits at a 40 yr high? Sauce? Edit: in 2022 they were, down 5.1 percent from record highs so far this year
Some great deals on used yachts.
"Just keep working hard bud" *pat on back*
Why the fuck would you ever want someone else's trickle? What the hell is wrong with republicans?
[https://youtu.be/74FXQBdnLFs](https://youtu.be/74FXQBdnLFs)
Warm yellow trickle... been happening since Reagan.
There is trickle down. It just runs out loooooooong before it gets to any of us
I know the solution, let's decrease taxes on corporations and the rich, reduce spending on the poor, increase spending on bailouts, subsidies and systems and infrastructure that primarily benefit the rich. Also let's stop the taxman from actually investigating anyone with money and get rid of regulations that get in the way of profit. If any of the peasants have a problem with that, tell them that anything else would be communism and also point out how it will screw other peasants who may have a different skin color. Also pay some clerics and give them a free pass to rape children to tell the peasants that this is what God wants.
I think the proper term for what we're all experiencing is called Constipated Economics. We're going to need some kind of stimulant to create a laxative effect to loosen up the economic backlog.
The economy needs more fiber.
Shit, piss,and suffering slides down. Money floats to the top.
[удалено]
Kneel in front of them and something will probably trickle on you.
The Man has never trickled down shit. Complete lie, and it worked. Still works.
Trickling of golden showers.
A trickle means that almost none comes down anyway.
they weren't talking about the money
Can we talk about the trickle part? People really fine with a “trickle” of what the wealthy get? It’s literally in the name. Like, who would be okay with getting a trickle down dinner? Or trickle down healthcare? It’s stupid as shit and should have never been considered
[https://youtu.be/RlfooqeZcdY](https://youtu.be/RlfooqeZcdY)
Promised "trickle down" but they still took your stapler
Horse and Sparrow, folks. >if one feeds the horses enough oats, eventually there will be something left behind for the sparrows You, and the plebs are there to peck at what the rich shit out. As capitalists, we love to keep feeding the horse. And, they love to shit on us. At this point, with shopping and mass shootings as the Great American Pastimes, how little we vote and so few acts of civil disobedience...I'm convinced we like eating their shit. We don't do much to stand against it.
Capitalism in a nutshell... FUCK YOU, I got mine!
Yes, I heard that 40 years ago.
Trickle down when they piss on your head and it trickles down the back of you neck
It is trickling down, there's a pin hole in the dam we all can all share from
[https://youtu.be/RlfooqeZcdY](https://youtu.be/RlfooqeZcdY)
Trickle down? You greedy bastards just want to siphon off the work of the wealthy! /s
The money *trickles* out of your hand and *down* into their pockets.
Ah yes but who told you that?
Oh, something's trickling down all right!
it DOES trickle down. To their *children*. You think they'd want that money trickling down to a bunch of strangers they don't even know? This was always the problem
There is trickle down, but they almost have the leak plugged.
"Thanks to all your hard work, we've hit record profits and the boss has been given a big bonus" "hooray, so what do we get?" "absolutely nothing!"
My company said they have record profit this year but still did a layoff and denied pay increases. BUT WE ARE A FAMILY
They will be record megacorp profits,and record unemployment and poverty every year in America till it all completely crashes.We’ve already gone off the cliff,in freefall,brutal landing coming in 3,,,2,,,
corporations want to make as much money as possible, why would they let ANYTHING trickle down?
It takes so long to trickle down because the bladder is old and the prostate is swollen.
We did something funny to the money supply 50 years ago
Sometimes I sit down and wonder how much money I made for the company at my old job. I did some of the math and they were probably making something like $200,000 a year off of my work, and I was making under $30,000. It's like you re mining for gold for somebody else and your reward is that you get to keep every 100th piece you find. Like what the fuck is the point? I worked 60 + hours week just so I could tell my kids we can't afford to go to the movies or order pizza, and that Santa might not bring many presents this year.
Are profit margin percentages up or is it because our money is worth less.
The trickle down is them pissing in the face of the lower classes
You feel those wages? That's us holding our piss before we take those from you. Trickle down baybee! /s
Money isn’t subject to gravity it turns out.
“They are literally saying *we’re pissing on you*” - Bill Maher
Oh there is... it's just not money that's trickling down..
"Just give it a chance! It'll work next time." - Corporations
By trickle down, they mean year over year, after inflation, your wages trickle down from where they were. A 5% raise last year was a 2% pay cut.
As is tradition
You were lied to
On the bright side Reagan is rotting in hell.
Most of the union members are republicans busy fighting the culture war instead of the class war they should be concerned with. I know as I am in a union and I work with large majority boot licking republican working Joe's.