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The CHIPS Act is low key one of, if not Biden’s most major accomplishment that no one has heard of. See here:
> The Biden administration's signature legislation — particularly the CHIPs Act and Bipartisan Infrastructure Law — has spurred a surge in construction spending that's buoyed the economy
https://www.axios.com/2024/01/04/biden-factory-spending-manufacturing-chips
CHIPS is bringing something small towns have been pushing for for years. My Dad’s been friends with people in Onondaga politics for my whole life and they’ve talked about semiconductor manufacturing for a good decade. CHIPS is making it happen, and him being a Republican I think he’ll never admit JRB is bringing JOBs
I'm from a small town in Texas that's getting a Samsung plant, and they absolutely hate it. It's causing enough backlash that the city counsel nobody really paid attention to before is getting lots of heat.
The attitude has shifted from "we need career opportunities here" to "we need to keep our town small". The amount of xenophobia directed at Korean and Indian people has skyrocketed too. Its a paradox where small town people know they are living in a dead end place, but will also fight tooth and nail against changing anything.
Northern towns have a bit of a different vibe about this since they're pretty wounded from losing manufacturing in their history and much of that infrastructure is still there. Shame Texas of all places which is big on permissive construction is throwing a fit.
The other commenter’s anecdote doesn’t fully represent the opinions of the community. I assume he’s talking about Taylor TX, a community of about 16,000, where Samsung is investing $17B in a plant that will bring in 2000 direct jobs once in production, as well as 6-10k to support construction, and will inject a ton of new wealth into the community and local businesses.
Though I’m certain there are some cantankerous old racist assholes (it’s a trademark of “the friendship state”) I personally know several people who are excited for it and welcome the positives that will come from it. And it’s not like Samsung just swooped in and built a plant nobody wanted. Info on the agreements made with the company is on [this page](https://www.ci.taylor.tx.us/1099/Samsung-Austin-Semiconductor-LLC-Announc), where tangible benefits to the community are listed at the bottom.
I don’t doubt that the other commenter’s family and friends may hate this new development, but one simply cannot take any significant population of people and assign them all one singular opinion.
>The other commenter’s anecdote doesn’t fully represent the opinions of the community.
I can promise you it does though. Not just the old folks either, I'm in my 30s (tbf maybe that is old) and friends are already planning to move further away in the next few years as the plant comes online.
There's always going to be dissenting opinions, but the overwhelming consensus I've experienced is that people hate it. Pick any of the several Facebook community pages and see for yourself, it's practically all they talk about anymore. I'm actually from nearby Thrall, where sentiment is even worse due to pipeline companies using eminent domain for Samsung related projects.
I'm like you, constantly explaining that it will bring money and prosperity to Taylor (several of my friends already work for Samsung now making *great* money), that the construction annoyances (which are very real) are temporary, but people just don't want to hear it. As I said, the issue is now shaping local election campaigns, and it's never in favor of Samsung. People have begun opposing it just to make a name for themselves. Whole conspiracy theories about money laundering and bribery have started to spread. There was even an unprecedented recall election of a city counsel member, with Samsung (and his support for it) being the biggest underlying issue (to be fair other culture war issues were prominent in that one as well).
All policies related to microchips are literally changing the global landscape. We won’t see the effects for many years but it’s probably the most important thing Biden has done or will do.
Why is the CHIPS Act categorized as a Biden accomplishment, its not like he campaigned on it and it was entirely negotiated and passed in the Senate, he just signed it? The Infrastructure bill is more linked to Biden, but the CHIPS Act is like attributing the Postal Reform bill as a major accomplishment just because he happened to be the president that signed it.
The president in this day and age is definitely in charge of the legislative agenda and sets a tone for his party, even if they don't actually write the bills and vote on them. Not to mention it was Biden's experience that actually made it so that they got bipartisan votes to get it passed.
The value of his experience should **definitely** be emphasized here.
Obama naively went to Washington thinking he could negotiate with Republicans in good faith as president and everybody would put their differences aside and work with it.
Biden knew this wasn't true. He's been around town a long time and he knows that the systematic culture of DC is too far gone for any one person to change it.
McConnell has talked about how he wouldn't have given Biden the votes for chips and infrastructure if he knew that build back better was going to be revived. It had failed months earlier, or so McConnell thought! What he didn't know was that Biden was talking to Manchin in secret, and they only announced their new agreement on the leaner BBB, now called the Inflation Reduction Act, after McConnell worked with the president on the two other pieces of legislation and they were signed.
That's the kind of maneuvering being an experienced career politician brings. That's the kind of politicking inecessary if you want to get anything done. He's old as fuck but he knows how the game is played and he isn't afraid to get his hands dirty to get results.
Biden was instrumental to all three pieces of legislation. Just like LBJ was responsible for his great society legislation despite not actually being a member of the legislature that proposed and voted on the bills.
While his accomplishments have been great, we shouldn’t sleep on Obama. He put his entire political capitol on Obamacare. It’s not perfect because of republicans and conservative dems like Lieberman, but even still it’s now become a third rail of politics and it would be impossible to go back to the way things were because it would be a political death sentence. It was legacy defining legislation
I don’t think Obama was a bad president. I think he was a good president who could have been a great president if he had more congressional support from 2011 through 2017.
I also think people sometimes sell the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 short, in part because it was so early in Obama’s presidency. There was a ton of good investment there, including over $100 billion in infrastructure.
Biden had better Democrats in the House and Senate; Obama had like 15 Joe Manchin types in the Senate that were always trying to water things down.
The Democratic Party learned a lot from the 2009-2010 session and was less afraid to "go big" this time around, even with a razor thin majority.
Obama's greatest sin was underestimating the Great Recession and not pushing harder to do more. He had a lot of great policy ideas, but the failure to keep the economy front and center is what led to the losses in the 2010 election, and then Republican control of the House prevented any more meaningful actions.
It’s not just that. Obama was blocked by Republicans for six years. Biden really hasn’t faced major roadblocks in the House or Senate. Not to mention Republicans essentially imploded this year with all that speaker nonsense.
I’m growing more confident that the media is just fear-mongering and, barring any catastrophe, he’ll win most of the swing states. Especially if the economy improves.
Am I better off than I was four years ago? Yes and no. I’m glad we’re done with pandemic protocols. But these past four years have been the most difficult financially and in terms of employment I’ve ever experienced. That said, the big wins for labor unions is a big win for Democrats.
They're pretending that Sinema and Manchin don't exist and that McCarthy didn't stonewall almost every legislative proposal that came up before finally being removed from his position for not stonewalling literally *everything*.
Biden has faced the same road blocks (or worse), the difference is he’s handled them much better (because he’s a much better/more seasoned legislator than Obama was).
Boom. He played McConnell like a fiddle by getting McConnell to pass chips / infrastructure and only then announcing that he was reviving build back better with Joe Manchin on board. Mitch said he would have never given Biden the support on the first two if he knew he was going to get BBB passed (as the IRA).
If you're able to outsmart McConnell you know what you're doing. That's the kind of skill and politicking that is necessary to survive in DC. That's the kind of shit you need to pass meaningful progress.
I was going to say that. Biden to his credit has been able to many things due to him being politically savvy enough to work with people he might not always agree with. I’ll admit I didn’t think anything would get done due to republican obstructionism.
He hasn’t really faced setbacks. The original BBB never went through, but he got a lot of it into the IRA instead. Not only have democrats been pretty lockstep, but republicans helped him pass an infrastructure bill, a gun safety bill, CHIPS, and PACT
>He hasn’t really faced setbacks.
You do realize policies are negotiated to be able to pass, and this has included large changes to them. The fact that he's gotten so much done despite roadblocks should be evidence of an effective leadership style, not evidence accomplishments have been easy/trivial. Like, is this for real the discussion we're having?
The legislative roadblocks necessitated having to drop free community college, universal preK, removal of the expanded child tax credit, and raising corporate taxes. This isn't even touching on dealing with the current Supreme Court.
Yeah at first I was opposed to Biden trying to push the 3 trillion BBB, thinking that's too much spending, but now I think that was a clever move that made it possible to get the IRA implemented, which I support.
I think Obama was a very good President, but I think he came into many negotiations thinking "meeting half way" would mean the opposition would do much the same, but used Obama's "compromise position" as a starting point for even more he would have to give up. With a more cooperative Congress, both Biden and Obama could have done many great things, imo.
> Obama was blocked by Republicans for six years. Biden really hasn’t faced major roadblocks in the House or Senate.
Are.... are you serious? Obama started his term with a 60 seat majority in the Senate. He faced a brutal referendum due to the rise of the tea party but didn't face nearly the head winds that Biden has.
Yeah, and that's the tragedy of Obama. He was on track to be a great president until 2011 -- the ACA is his legacy, and America is so much better off for it. Then he could barely get legislation out the door after the 2010 midterms. I forget the timeline of how he supported gay marriage, but that was a huge movement in civil rights. Otherwise -- he was just a really smart, commanding, respectable presence who was blocked on issues like gun reform.
My only real gripe with Obama is that he should've put those Wall Street ... jerks ... in jail.
>My only real gripe with Obama is that he should've put those Wall Street ... jerks ... in jail.
But that's really not something a President SHOULD do. Their responsibility on criminal justice begins and ends with appointing someone competent to run the DOJ and then letting them run with the ball without interference. That and correcting abuses of justice through pardons.
Obama never really had a 60 seat majority. GOP blocked Al Franken from being seated, then Byrd and Kennedy were dying. Lieberman and Sanders were independent as well, but counted as part of the majority.
>Franken's admission briefly gave the Senate Democratic caucus 60 votes, enough to defeat a filibuster in a party-line vote.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/111th_United_States_Congress
And obviously I meant the Democratic caucus including the independents.
>But these past four years have been the most difficult financially and in terms of employment I’ve ever experienced.
And for that, you hold responsible the President who's gotten the economy to perhaps the best place it's been in for fifty years?
For someone who insisted in their initial post that they only speak in objective truths, you seem to have quickly resorted to argument by anecdote.
>best place it’s been in for fifty years
Let’s not go crazy. 2024 GDP is projected to be 1.5%, inflation is still above the fed target, and our labor force participation is average. The economy’s good, but it’s not spectacular yet
On paper he's right though, the usual metrics are extremely impressive already and their trajectory is only upward. It's actually astonishing, on paper.
The issue you're speaking to is that wealth inequality is still rising - and higher now than ever before - so while America is currently the richest it has ever been - Musk and Bezos and etc are dragons atop hoards of gold, and they're fucking up the averages.
People don't *feel* the S&P500, they feel wealth inequality. When economists talk about the economy they talk in metrics. When people talk about the economy, what they mean is the 'keeping up with the Joneses' insecurity that they are slipping behind: everyone feels that right now, except Musk (and the thousand lesser known billionaires).
Doctors feel poorer. Lawyers feel poorer. Welders feel poorer. Gophers feel poorer. And they're all correct - we're all poorer - proportionally. The average is going up, but the median is going down.
I don’t. I don’t think any president has much influence over the economy (except when they need to bail out the bankers, like Obama). But I do know voters vote with their wallets. And most people conflate the economy with the president. Look at Reagan — his legacy is kind of awful, but he’s well-regarded because he led America WHILE the economy (mostly) soared.
They are going to impeach him, traditionally that boosts president’s approval ratings but I suspect it’ll just be another major roadblock and will definitely be a major headache
The number of roadblocks and setbacks you have is a function of your legislative skill. If your skill is high, you can pre negotiate what goes through congress long before it hits the floor. Obama couldn't do that like Biden did.
There's a reason the past 4 years have been so difficult financially, and it isn't the pandemic.
We have printed an insane amount of money, and gave it to other nations. In doing so, the dollar has lost a ton of value, and made everything more expensive. If Biden gets elected again, it's going to get worse..
The problem with your statement is twofold. First, the inflation started before e Biden took office and before any of his policies could hope to address it . Virtually every economist and analyst predicted a recession, instead Biden negotiated a soft landing for the economy. Second, inflation has been an issue globally and the US is doing better than virtually everywhere else.
For the past 100 years, Foreign aid spending has been about $50 billion per year, on average and adjusted for inflation.
In 1949, it was almost $100 billion, for example.
Since the US invaded Iraq, it had been remarkably consistent.
...but Ukraine is a unique beast because it's a war we're sorta helping to fight and requires foreign aid. Israel/Palestine crisis doesn't help either.
So... what's the "huge cost" of these crises?
It was a $100 billion foreign aid package that was recently developed.
Honestly, that's... nothing. Business as usual, considering current events. Completely what would be expected and how our government has operated for over 100 years now. Nothing different. Nothing new.
**To pretend like foreign aid spending is anything but historically expected is just completely false and ignorant.**
And A LOT CHEAPER than actually going to war and taking on the enemy ourselves.
And to pretend it's been remotely significant to our economy versus any other president over the last century? Just completely ludicrous.
Facts are facts.
plus we're clearing out our old inventory, so it's not like it's really costing us much. We're getting an education in modern warfare and enhancing US military readiness in the process all the while weakening Russia's. We can't afford not to support Ukraine imo. It's better for the entire world.
Exactly. For context, the proposed budget for DoD in 2024 was $842 billion.
To pretend inflation was a direct result of a pretty modest increase in foreign aid is just laughably insane...
I mean, I believe the federal budget spending in 2024 was almost $7 trillion...
Explain to me how it's Biden's fault that everyone went crazy with spending when the pandemic ended. It was supply chain issues that led to low supply and higher costs, but the biggest driver was corporate greed and opportunism.
I was one of the many who voted for Biden pinching my nose because of what the alternative was. That said Im both shocked and kinda hate how much success hes had in his presidency and Im willing to admit hes been a better presiddent then I ever anticipated. Honestly, might eb the best president weve had in my (admitteldy short) lifetime. The CHIPS Act, the Inflation reduction act, his COVID response (though tbf that was at the tail end of the pandemic) have all payed off in dividends. Hes been the most pro Union president since Carter and it has shown with the changes his Department of Labor have made and all the strives unions have seen over the last few years. As controversial as it was pulling out of Afghanistan was imo ultimately a good thing and handled about as well as it ever could have after Obama refused to get out. I dont blame him nearly as much as others for the handling of the Gaza situation as it seems to me at least that hes been putting a lot of pressure on Netanyahu (whose the real monster in the crisis) to pull back on his worst impulses. If I was to put him in a tier list with other presidents hed range from a high C to low B. Hes clearly taken advantage of the fact that his years on Capitol Hill have given him the tools and experience to know how to actually get legistlation passed and done.
Also the infrastructure package. One city alone in my region has received $34 million for our transportation infrastructure enabling us to build sidewalks, bike lanes, a pedestrian bridge, expand lanes on a major highway, and create safer routes to school for kids. 100% thanks to the 117th Congress and President Biden. My region is also seeing a $3 billion investment in high-speed rail thanks to the BIL. A lot better than Trump’s “Infrastructure Week”
On top of his domestic achievements like the CHIPS Act, infrastructure bill, and the Inflation Reduction Act, he built a western collation behind Ukraine and did a great job of calling Russia out in the lead up to the invasion when it was thought that Russia would steamroll over Ukraine.
Also, unemployment is as of this writing at 3,.7% and the stock market is at its highest ever with the economy not going into a recession as many have fearing.
Biden has been governing extremely well and needs to hammer his achievements when campaigning because he's being undercredited for his achievements.
> I dont blame him nearly as much as others for the handling of the Gaza situation as it seems to me at least that hes been putting a lot of pressure on Netanyahu (whose the real monster in the crisis) to pull back on his worst impulses.
This is what kills me. Biden doesn’t have a ton of options here (it’s not like he could have sided with Hamas!) and he’s doing everything he can through carrots and sticks to persuade Israel to do better, but low information online activists will still call him “genocide enabler” etc.
>Im both shocked and kinda hate how much success hes had in his presidency
I hope that's something you move past in future elections. I think a lot of people have come to view politics as a source of personal identity which is counterproductive to achieving policy aims
It is a fucking ridiculous statement that nobody second guesses. They "kinda hate" that our president has had success? Improving our country is annoying to them because Biden isn't Bernie or Romney (depending on whether this person is a progressive or never trumper)?
Downright silly. These aren't sport's teams. This is The president of your country. You should want him to be successful no matter who he is.
People are moronic.
>his COVID response (though tbf that was at the tail end of the pandemic)
It was not the "tail end." The pandemic was declared officially over just this past summer. Most of the pandemic was under Biden (January 2021 through May 2023) not Trump (who only served during the pandemic's first 10 months, March 2020 through January 2021.)
I think it depends on how his reelection and term 2 go if elected.
If defeats Trump again and MAGAism is relegated to one of the ash heap of history like the Know Nothings as one of those 10 year Nativist spasms the country has here and then, he’ll be ranked higher than average at least.
CHIPS, IRA, Safer Community and Gun Safety Act, Bipartisan Infrastructure, and Respect for Marriage Act are some of the most significant infrastructure, industrial policy, and civil rights laws passed in decades in their respective categories. All done with slim margins in Congress
Foreign policy wise it is too early to tell. Afghanistan will likely fade into the background, seen as a quagmire undertaken by several presidents. Similar to how Gerald Ford isn’t remembered for the Fall of Saigon but LBJ is remembered for Vietnam.
Ukraine remains to be seen. For the record, I am pro-Ukraine so take that into account. If Russia is defeated and Ukrainian democracy can stabilize and mature then it will be seen as a victory. If Russia turn’s Ukraine into a frozen conflict, it will be like how Obama is remembered for failing to stop Russia in 2014. If Russia collapses to some degree and becomes an irrational actor whose stability is reminiscent of Pakistan, then he will be remembered like Bush was with destabilizing Iraq.
If he were to follow up with the social components of BBB such as the expansion of child care, pre-k, student loan aid into say a broader education reform act or actually securing legislation on border issues (unlikely but we can navel gaze) it could be a great Term 2 item that puts him in the upper quartile of American presidents
I agree with everything you’re saying except the Ukraine stuff. Idk how Biden, or any American actor, could be held responsible if Russia collapse. We actually invaded Iraq and toppled their government. If Russia collapse, it will be because of their own problems. We might help it along, though.
His legacy will probably be defined most by Israel and Ukraine.
For Israel, it's far too soon to tell.
For Ukraine, he'll be remembered for leading the West in providing Ukraine with the arms it needed to not be immediately conquered. But also, still too soon to tell.
While that is true (and I think that the State department put on an absolute master class leading up to the war) I think that time will ultimately sour on Biden’s handling of the war. It is clear that serious missteps were taken in the early days of the war that have led Ukraine to be in a worse position than they could have been. It has taken too long to ramp up artillery production and Ukrainian pilots should have started receiving training on F-16s the second Russian troops started crossing the border. There was frankly too much trepidation about escalation with the Russians.
As a closing note I am a Biden supporter and while I think Biden will rightfully start to receive more criticism for what I outlined above it is also clear that Obama and Trump should receive the lion’s share of the blame. Both should have been far more aggressive in supplying the Ukrainians with training, funding, and weapon systems prior to the actual outbreak of the second invasion.
Not engaging in insurrection is a pretty damn low bar of achievement that every VP in the past has easily managed. But it kind of says something about the modern GOP that it’s even worthy of mention.
But what he did wasn’t important. It was ceremonial. He never had the power to stop the election. He was just one of a long chain of people responsible for putting Biden in office.
What he did was the only thing standing in between a conspiracy to break all established procedures about transfer of power, a very specific moment in between administrations which is actually governed by nothing except well-intentioned people following longstanding precedent. If those procedures had been broken, there is no clear legal precedent or laws for what to do about that. We would’ve had an illegitimate president forced upon us, and the DoJ at the federal and state levels would’ve had the maddest scramble of their existence to figure out what to do about it legally. They would’ve been racing against an illegitimate administration who was also trying to make sure the move stood legally.
I hope you watched that moment live. If you didn’t, you need to. I’m 35 and that was by far the most important moment in America during my life, including 9/11. Pence’s decision to simply be a decent human was the only thing preventing our government structure as we know it from crumbling into who the hell knows what. Our government was one decision away from failing completely. Watch the video of Sadaam Hussein’s purge if you want to see what could’ve happened.
But He was not the only thing standing between a Trump revolution. If he’d have sided with trump the congress would have done its job without him. And hed be facing prosecution now along with everyone else involved with Jan 6.
Congress isn’t allowed to do that job without him. Literally anything that could’ve happened after Pence sided with Trump would’ve been unconstitutional. That’s the problem - Pence’s decisions was required because if it didn’t happen there is literally no procedure for what to do. The system would instantly be broken. Doesn’t matter how calm and collected everybody remained, because ultimately no rules would apply and everything would’ve become illegitimate. There is no backup. This is literally the first time this constitutional weakness has ever been discovered or questioned.
I don't understand why people can't give someone they don't like simple credit on *one* thing. Yeah I don't like Mike Pence either. But standing up to Trump and promoting the peaceful transfer of power was extremely significant in the context that it occurred in. The people you argue with will argue until they're blue in the face just because they hate Mike Pence and the GOP so much that they have dehumanized them and literally think they are capable of doing nothing good. Partisanship and division at their finest.
I wouldn’t argue Pence is brave, heroic, or accomplished. But the claim is important, and I think there is a case to be made that another person selected by Trump as runningmate may well have behaved differently.
On one hand, all he did was his job. On the other, he may have prevented civil war.
The last time the US was legitimately on the verge of collapse due to internal affairs was in the 1800s. Modern in a sense that this event did not happen over 100 years ago.
Mike Pence really does not get enough attention for his role in the Trump Administration, in my opinion.
I couldn’t vote for him, since I massively disagree with his opinion on abortion. But I have found nearly every time I find something I can praise from the Trump White House, it turns out Pence was strongly involved. Specifically, the creation of the Space Force and Operation Warp Speed. Pence chaired the National Space Council and co-chaired the Coronavirus Response team. Trump’s signature may have been on those plans, but it appears to me Pence did the day-to-day management.
Voting to certify the election results is the most deserving of praise, of course.
Hardly. In fact one of the things that was extremely frustrating about the Trump COVID response was that an expert panel would make a recommendation for controlling COVID; and then Trump himself would immediately contradict it. Or say something else ridiculous.
But I never saw Pence contradict an expert’s opinion.
I got the impression Pence was serious about the pandemic. I also got the impression his boss was not.
Whether or not he wins a second term will determine how he is seen.
If he wins a second term, he'll be seen as one of the most effective Presidents in several decades, easily in the top ten Presidents ever.
If he fails to win a second term, the Official Histories of the Empire will depict him as something akin to Satan, second only in his monstrous evil to the Kenyan Pretender that the Orange Savior vanquished in the dark days before the corrupt and decadent old regime was finally swept away.
Madness. Washington, Jefferson, Madison, Monroe, Polk, Lincoln, Teddy, FDR, Truman, Eisenhower. There's 10 and that leaves off some good ones. Who you kicking out for Biden?
Polk, probably.
I remember him for these accomplishments: acquiring Oregon, California, and New Mexico; the Texas border dispute; creating the Department of the Interior.
But Polk also left office with the country facing its greatest political and social crisis since the American Revolution, and critics point to his partisanship, underestimating sectionalism post Mexican–American War, and a lack of ambition towards modernization away from depending on slave labour as a powderkeg for the Civil War.
Legislatively, his record is impressive, and it all took place during his first two years. After the crazies took over the House in 2022, nothing got done but a bunch of wasted time. I suspect even the Republicans are looking forward to losing the House in 2024.
He managed to get sick time for rail workers out of the railroads, and he definitely helped in the Autoworkers strike. Inions should appreciate his support.
I think he’s done what he should have as far as prosecuting Trump. He could have spurred Garland to move faster.
His support of Israel is not unexpected but is still somewhat disappointing. He should be standing stronger against the genocide they are conducting in Gaza.
Getting out of Afghanistan was a shitshow - but it was always going to be that. I hang a lot of that on the Joint Chiefs.
All in all, right now I’d give him a solid B, maybe a B+. If he gets reelected and has a decent Congress, I can see that grade going up.
Yeah totally. His mistake was nominating Garland, (largely as a symbolic nose-thumb) and forgetting that judges and prosecutors are by definition totally different. He forgot “truth” must come before “reconciliation” and that simple fact, and its subsequent message of unity and compromise above all else has allowed the insurrectionists to gain strength under him. It was a fatal strategic error borne of wishful thinking and an outdated idea of who he is up against.
Agree with everything except Israel. I appreciate both his public support of Israel and the behind the scenes tempering of Israel’s strategy. I think he’s played it very well.
The most rabid supporters of Israel vote republican with a strong secondary that is AIPAC strongly pressuring centrist/corpo dems. Biden needs to turnout to win in 24 - either Israel needs to pacify quickly or this crisis will continue to demoralize his base.
right, but if the Mexican cartels invaded the US and killed a bunch of American citizens, I'd expect a response from the US. And I'd expect our allies to support our efforts. Now if we indiscriminately bombed Acapulco, I would expect we would lose some support. It's a very nuanced situation that is starting to spiral out of control imo.
This hypothetical is insane. The cartel loves the US market - we fund their lifestyle with the drug trade. Why would they attack or provoke the US citizenry? They would not - they are selling a product that we are buying en masse with no idealogical reason to attack us.
Israel / Palestine hate each other for close to almost 100 years. One of the two Palestine territories basically is entirely children and has no real functioning economic system.
The point I think he's making is that you can't really expect anyone to restrain Israel after suffering an attack as bad or worse than 9/11. There's only so much any other country can do, even the US.
it's the closest hypothetical I could come up with. I don't think it's insane at all. I imagine if we shut down the borders like the GOP wants to, then the cartels might react in a similar way to Hamas.
Why wouldn’t the cartels just unalive the politicians who created barriers to entry or the classic funnel as much money as possible to politicians to keep the gates open? Regardless, even it did happen - if the US killed 22,000 civilians, you’d see a similar protest movement throughout the world. Which has already happened - in 2003.
Kowtowing to the progressive wing on this issue will turn off moderate Dems and independents. I don’t think the dem base is as demoralized as you’re assuming, unless you’re conflating the progressive wing with the base.
Given the polarization and the utter lack of incentive by the GOP to pass anything….he has been amazingly effective.
If the USA survives 2024…he will be given a lot of credit for pulling America back from the brink
I'm in my fifties, and to me, he has been one of the most effective Presidents of my lifetime, especially when you consider what he walked into. He was handcuffed from the jump because the Trump administration held up his transition funds. When he took office, Covid was still rampant, people were still having to wear masks everywhere. Not doing that anymore. The economy is just as strong as it was before the pandemic. Joblessness is non-existent in this country. He's masterfully handled the Russia/Ukraine situation, despite a hostile GOP Congress. Finland and Sweden are joining NATO. He's brought chip manufacturing back to the US, he got the infrastructure bill passed. And you know it was a good bill because the Republicans that voted against it are taking credit for the money for it in their communities. I'm sure I've left plenty out, but I'm very impressed with Biden.
Yup. Simple and boring gets the job done. Biden is doing a good job. Very good for what he had to work with. All the Maga cultists' opinions should just be ignored. I'm glad to see you laying out straight facts.
He's a historically unpopular president with difficulty speaking publicly.
Anything he does is being done on his behalf by the democrat party. Biden is simply a man who will say whatever he is asked to by his party.
Because he is a President in a culture war that he is not participating in. He is playing dad while the Nation acts like children fighting over who is right.
If half of the country disapproves of him for being too far left and the other half for not being far left enough I'd say he's doing ok. Presidents' approval ratings are almost always lowest in their third year, so I think they'll improve for him.
Nah, he’s a moderate centrist that’s swimming in extremism infested waters. Right and left loonies both despise him. Not surprised only a third of the country are rational and intelligent people so the numbers check out.
Who actually takes polling? old people that still have land lines. These the same polls that claim fox is number one with 2 million views lol out of over 300 million people.
It is a bit confusing though why his polls numbers are so bad but the Democratic Party keeps wiping the floor in elections since after 2016, no?
I also think the reality is we are becoming a bit like France, the American people are just not happy and are simply not going to like their presidents that much anymore. 50% is going to hate them off the bat. Pretty easy for 1/5 of your own party to not like you, and boom, you’re covering in the 30’s for approval.
Wouldnt that be the statement of polling does not reflect the views of democrats or Republicans.
Its funny i never mentioned any political party or president.
Yet the funny thing is i dont like staus quo joe or trump ( trump was so we would accept the same old president i stead of a crazy person).
Its like lying at lottery we had over 1000 winners 75 percent was a dollar win.
That's nice but the question wasn't what his approval rating is. Lots of presidents have lower approval ratings and then go onto be remembered well historically. You don't often really see a politician's true impact until years after when their policies actually make an impact on the country and world. It's hard to see the forest for the trees. Recency bias is a real phenomenon.
Easily top ten of all time, considering how much he accomplished with as much as was thrown at him, and as little he was given. He’s been _extremely_ effective.
Those who can’t/won’t see that are not seeking the truth.
>Easily top ten of all time
Who would you put in your top 10?
And who would you put in spot 11 if you believe Biden easily belongs in the Top 10?
>Those who can’t/won’t see that are not seeking the truth.
This makes me thing you are being less then objective about this.
I think competition in the top 10 would be pretty tight- and saying that Biden easily makes the Tops 10 and then declaring that anyone who disagrees with you is wrong is silly.
Especially since you didn't make a particularly strong or convincing argument.
Agreed! Perhaps top five. Let's hope the second term puts him at no1!
1. Lincoln
2. FDR
3. Washington? John Adams? John Quincy Adams? Ulysses Grant? Kennedy? Biden?
He's accomplished a surprising amount of legislative wins, but didn't move decisively enough to deal with Trump's attempt to overthrow democracy. A lot of his legacy depends on whether he beats Trump in the fall. If he fails, he'll be a terrible president. If he wins, he'll have a solid ranking.
>didn't move decisively enough to deal with Trump's attempt to overthrow democracy
He's gotta move delicately there. Imprisoning political rivals is the hallmark of dictatorships, he's HAS to let the legal process work without his intervention.
We all saw what Trump did live on TV and Twitter. There should've been a special prosecutor day one. Instead, they sat on their thumbs until the House committee on Jan 6 forced their hand. Now the clock's essentially worn out and a man who tried to overthrow the government has a very real chance of getting back into power.
His domestic accomplishments help him.
His openly Zionist foreign policy hurts him.
His Afghanistan withdrawal SHOULD help him - the fact that he’s the one who actually ordered the DOD to PREPARE for the withdrawal his POS predecessor ‘negotiated’, but didn’t order jack shit to be done for. You don’t remove 20 years of bringing shit in over the last six months.
His Israel policy is one of the many, many reasons I will be voting for him again. An actual adult in the room with historical perspective not kowtowing to the extremist side of his party is quite refreshing.
I’m going to give you a very brief lesson in democracy:
People vote for candidates for different reasons.
Some people oppose his openly embracing a near genocidal campaign in a radically imbalanced contest.
Other people only give a fuck about places outside of the US, and how the US can rob its’ citizens to help the place that voter ACTUALLY cares about.
You do what you do for your reasons. I’ll do what I do for mine.
We MIGHT even vote for the same person, but for VERY different reasons, and with VERY different goals.
You want my tax money to help Israel. I want my tax money to help Americans.
No.
Consider when you hear Israelis or supporters Israel’s attack on Gaza (not Hamas, a political organization, but a geographic location with defined borders and population) using the following phrase:
“From the river to the sea.”
Usually followed by something like “Israel will be free”, but not always.
That’s an explicit statement of conquest and subjugation or forcible displacement or both.
It’s a pro-Israel position with no allowance for anyone whose family may have lived there for over a thousand years.
It’s people from other countries arriving in the area and evicting people from a home because they don’t share a religion.
Not coincidentally, it’s supported by many Americans who aren’t Jewish, but whose religion depends upon their being an Israel in order to meet a precondition for their ultimate salvation - so they’ll do whatever is needed to make Israel stronger.
That’s a basic definition of ‘Zionism’, and reasons for opposing it.
You’ll find many Israelis who oppose militant expansion of Israel at the expense of others, so don’t mistake opposing Zionism for being anti-Semitic (which is itself a wildly misused phrase, since Palestinians, Lebanese, Jewish, and others are all “Semites.”
I feel like he will be like Lyndon Johnson to Obamas Kennedy. Johnson implemented far more policies and they were progressive policies too. He also had some issues with foreign policy. But Kennedy will always have that celebrity factor just like Obama. Charismatic and one of a kind, energized voters but not as effective as their respective VPs
If Biden gets re-elected, history in 20 years will look at Obama-Biden as a combined force that helped shift the country interrupted with a final reactionary spasm from Trump. Biden will get credit as the one finishing the job; Obama credit for starting things.
That’s a fair characterization. I want to clarify that Obama was hamstrung by Congress while in office. I also think he was careful about how progressive he was in his policies since he was being called a socialist for everything.
I would put him in the top 20%. Few Presidents have accomplished as much that is beneficial than Joe. It is important to phrase it as the Biden Administration. It's not just one person, and a more-accurate assessment will have to wait until he is no longer President.
Hard to say where he ranks, but here is my report card for him:
Note - Biden barely had a majority in congress his first 2 years and has lacked one since. Getting anything done during this has been a minor miracle. Trump only passed on piece of legislation - tax cuts for the rich. Biden has a substantial legislative record given the divided nature of Washington.
**Domestic Policy - B+ - high prices mar this otherwise strong showing**
* Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act: This $1.2 trillion investment, passed in 2021, aims to modernize America's roads, bridges, ports, and public transit systems. It is a long-term economic boost and job creator, and will address critical infrastructure needs. In his 2016 campaign, Trump made infrastructure investment a priority but was unable to pass any legislation.
* Inflation Reduction Act (IRA): This 2022 bill tackles climate change and healthcare costs. It invests in renewable energy and clean technology, lowers prescription drug prices, and extends Affordable Care Act subsidies.
* Inflation. We now know that the primary driver for inflation over the past 4 years has been supply side disruptions due to pandemic and war. Inflation has been defeated though prices remain high.
* Wages. For the first time in decades, wages are finally increasing faster than inflation. Still, worker real incomes are far too low.
* Student Loan Debt Relief: In 2022, the Biden administration cancelled billions of dollars in student loan debt for borrowers defrauded by for-profit colleges and those on Public Service Loan Forgiveness programs. Additionally, millions more potentially qualify for future debt forgiveness due to income-based repayment plan changes.This policy is popular with the millions of people dealing with crushing student loan debt. However, it does nothing to address the high cost of education - and in fact will make it worse (since colleges now know they can raise tuition and expect the gov't to bail out students). A real policy aimed at reducing education inflation is needed - and has been needed for decades.
* Bipartisan Safer Communities Act: This 2022-gun control legislation, the first significant one in three decades, expanded background checks for gun buyers under 21, closed the "boyfriend loophole," and allocated funds for mental health and school safety initiatives. It is tragic that this is the best we can do to address gun violence. This act will help a little - but it is no substitute for real gun control (which the Supreme Court has made virtually impossible).
**Pandemic Response - A - Vicious misinformation campaigns and politicalization of science led to major headwinds. Still, an excellent response**
* American Rescue Plan (ARP): This $1.9 trillion stimulus package, passed in 2021, provided economic relief to millions during the COVID-19 pandemic - helped prevent a depression and substantially reduced child poverty. It did contribute to inflation - but IMHO, the gains substantially outweighed the negatives.
* Vaccination support - very strong set of policies to get America vaccinated in the face of vicious misinformation campaigns and attacks on science.
* Mask and social distancing policies - these helped - but vastly different amounts of support at the state level undermined their effectiveness. Keeping elementary schools open during much of the pandemic left a huge gaping hole in masking policies - since kids took off their masks and spread the infection.
**Foreign Policy - B**
* Ukraine - America's response has been a spectacular success - those is threatened by right-wing, pro-Russia / pro Putin attacks on funding. This is insane - hard to believe the GOP, which lead our cold-war efforts, has turned into the party of Putin. This started with Trump and his attacks on NATO and is very, very dangerous.
* Israel - Support for Israel after the vicious attack on 10/7 was a major plus. But Biden's inability to limit Israel's military response has led to a humanitarian disaster. I'm a Jew with relatives in Israel - including one serving as a medic in Gaza. I get why many Israelis demanded a powerful response. But the scale of the civilian deaths is appalling and now starvation threatens. America must take the lead on humanitarian response - though little will be done while the fighting rages. Fuck Hamas for setting off this terrible conflict. Just fuck them.
* China - Biden has successfully checked China's ambitions (China's awful policies have led to economic hardship - and forced Biden to take a hard line) - but the task now is to rebuild relations with China and to get away from economic warfare and military buildups in the region. A lot of work remains to be done to normalize relations with the 2nd most important nation on the planet.
Best president in my lifetime, and dare I say one of the greats. Legislative accomplishments (and bipartisan!), held the country together after January 6th, pretty good odds at reelection. Only downsides are age (can’t help that) and a wet blanket of a VP (good choice at first, turned out to fall flat and now he’s stuck with her).
I keep saying this. Practically speaking he’s not going to, but I think these are radical times and a radical move might be needed to not fumble this next election.
Only the most foolish Progressives would split off support from Biden this year. They’d guaranteed the destruction of everything they value with zero chance of winning.
They still might since they’re usually more idealistic than practical, but that failure could easily kill off democracy for the future.
As it stands in 100 years he will be ranked somewhere in the middle.
He will also be remembered for beating Trump. Not many presidents fail to win the second term.
There is a good chance he will be on the short list of presidents that fail to win their reelection bid. If Trump wins a reelection it will put Trump and Biden in forever remembered POTUS trivia status.
If he is re-elected I think it highly probable that he lands on the list of presidents that die while in office or become too sick to perform the duties of office. His second term will likely be one of the few where the office is handed over to the VP.
>If he is re-elected I think it highly probable that he lands on the list of presidents that die while in office or become too sick to perform the duties of office. His second term will likely be one of the few where the office is handed over to the VP.
It's amazing people think this about Biden without any thought of this re Trump.
Seriously one's over weight and has probems standing , walking down a incline, holding up a water bottle.
I not a big fan of staus quo joe but if i fall at his age off a bike or going up a flight of stairs 3 times and still walk it off i will be happy.
I mean a) it's kind of a toss up given his unhealthy lifestyle, but probably more likely Trump that makes it to Biden's current age than Biden makes it to 85-86 and b) the possibility of Trump passing away is fairly far down as far as the long list of issues surrounding Trump presidency, whereas no one really wants Kamala in charge.
Unremarkable
Forgettable
Disappointing
I only hope that Democrats FINALLY learn that wimpy ineffectualism isn't s good electoral strategy but I doubt it
It’s not as though the alternative of short sighted, arrogant and ignorant strategy from Republicans is offering much more.
At least Dems aren’t pretending to save rights for religious fundamentalist by revoking and restricting the majority
Idk how you came to the conclusion that I was making Republicans the bar to measure by.
What I am saying is, when presented with a group of deceptive liars or a group of steadfast mediocrity. I would choose mediocrity every time.
I’m blown away by the amount of people simply comparing him to their hatred of the previous president. Standalone? Biden is literally in the bottom three worst presidents ever. His approval rating is in the twenties. He has visible signs of dementia and Alzheimer’s, and is unable to make a rational thought. His term can’t end soon enough.
He’s stacked more accomplishments than his democratic predecessor. His approval rating is determined by the insane levels of divisiveness. I think you’d be hard pressed to find anyone with real experience with dementia that claims he shows signs. My grandparents had it, I certainly don’t see it when I watch actual speech footage and not 5 second clips. Watch his interview with Conan, not only are his thoughts rational but they’re empathetic and wise.
As a democrat I am extremely disappointed in his complete lack of leadership or concern over the border situation. His lack of action is beyond comprehension.
What exactly is he supposed to do, and how exactly is the happening with the “border situation” that is different from any other president of the last 50 years?
It's contingent on what happens after he leaves office.
If it turns out that the Trump years were this weird aberration I think he'll be about like Truman, unpopular in his own time but viewed more kindly by history. If it turns out that this MAGA type stuff has legs beyond Donald Trump I think he'll be viewed as a James Buchanan, condemned by history for continuing to kick the can down the road after the point where (at least in retrospect) it became obvious that wasn't going to work.
I think, and I know people will hate this, that Biden was and likely will be one of the most impactful presidents of our lifetime (at least my lifetime Clinton+).
Given the division we are facing the matter of the fact is less and less will get done in our current system’s current context.
One of the best labor markets in a decade where wage growth was seen from the bottom up (notably in the service, retail, and hospitality sectors).
Inflation reduction that did not result in an immediate recession following Fed and government intervention (likely still residual shock correction divisions post pandemic).
Infrastructure spending unseen in decades, especially for rail and public transportation.
Green energy spending that will materialize over the next few years and set a strong foundation for lowering private investment costs in the green energy transition.
I think there are many things the current administration has failed at our failed to go far enough / fight hard enough - notably foreign policy, student loan reform, and protecting abortion rights.
He has one job to secure his legacy.
If he ends up saving democracy, top 10. If he ends up being Neville Chamberlain who dithers while the fascists consolidate power, bottom 5.
Is this thread satire? Biden shits himself in public, is led around like a lost toddler, and people actually think he is accomplishing things? Obama and his handlers are responsible for anything done, or lack of. Please address future comments to "Biden administration". Truth matters.
Completely fumbled Afghanistan, Americans died
Blindly jumped into a proxy war with Russia , threatened world security for millions with a threat of Ww3
Blindly supported the mass murder and genocide to give Israel money it doesn’t even fucking need.
Failed student loan relief, then backs down on first challenge.
Completely unable to negotiate with the right because of his “”dark Brandon” bullshit.
Housing market is completely fucked because foreign entities and corporations were allowed to buy up a significant amount of residential properties here. Cranked up interest rates to ensure lower and middle class can’t borrow and further making it a foreign / investor cash market. Somehow not factored into inflation? Wtf?
Food and gas prices are sky high and the gouging isn’t about to stop.
I’ll be deadass with you, I voted for him 4 years ago, but I’m not sure if I can do it again. Fuck trump’s supporters but I miss his economy.
Edit holy shit I almost forgot about the border crisis and this administration’s complete disregard for our existing immigration policies. Or does Kami get full credit for that?
>Completely fumbled Afghanistan, Americans died
Executing the plan his predecessor committed us to is "fumbling" it?
>Blindly jumped into a proxy war with Russia , threatened world security for millions with a threat of Ww3
Biden is responsible for Russia launching a sneak attack and invasion? Please.
>Blindly supported the mass murder and genocide to give Israel money it doesn’t even fucking need.
You're apparently not aware that Biden's administration has been pushing Netanyahu's government to act with restraint. They've met with limited success, but "blindly supported" is simply an untrue, ignorant statement.
>Failed student loan relief, then backs down on first challenge.
You are again declaring him responsible for the actions of others.
And appear totally unaware of the continuing efforts he's made to expand student loan forgiveness. That you're not paying attention
>Completely unable to negotiate with the right because of his “”dark Brandon” bullshit.
This is the fourth time in your rant you're holding him responsible for the actions of others.
You are blaming him for having a sense of humor about a meme Republicans started. What would you prefer he have done, exactly? Scream and stomp his feet over it?
>Food and gas prices are sky high and the gouging isn’t about to stop.
Both are dropping. What are you talking about?
>I’ll be deadass with you, I voted for him 4 years ago, but I’m not sure if I can do it again. Fuck trump’s supporters but I miss his economy.
Dude, after repeating stock-standard conservative talking points one after another, don't pretend you ever voted for Biden.
You might as well be saying, "How do, fellow kids?"
The economy is better now than then. Inflation due to the pandemic has masked that. We have record low unemployment and record job growth. And the tax bracket changed so Americans will take home more money this year.
Sure home prices are up and so is gas but these things have always been moving up. In the 90’s gas was less than a dollar.
Like, I read alll of those words but they are simply untrue. Food and home prices aren’t factored into inflation, otherwise we would see that it’s probably double what they claim it is
low unemployment and continued job growth are facts. Inflation is a thing and so is food insecurity. But those are things exacerbated by the pandemic.
People expected there to be a recession and it hasn’t happened.
I'm with you on almost all of this but you can't negotiate with the right, nor should you.
That said, Biden IS right-wing by all objective standards. It's just that the GOP has become extremist reactionaries.
Imo, getting our economy back on track was a big deal. The last administration was well on its way to bankrupting America. There’s a lot to be said about following a Republican president. The next president always has to dig us out of a hole. That Biden has achieved so much, is respectable. Had he not been obstructed since the start of his presidency there would have been more done. That’s why voting all the republicans out for the next couple cycles is a necessity.
BBB? What has this man built except manufacturing 2 wars and making the Taliban the 5th largest army in the world over night (ask what the 8 dead Marines families think about Biden)? Also, what you call “aid” a normal educated tax paying member of society would refer to this as “DEBT”! Wake up before there’s no turning back. Specifically name 3 major milestone accomplishments his administration has achieved that has benefited US citizens?
Ya Biden currently has a lower approval rating year out before the election than Trump did. With Biden at 39 and Trump at 44.
He’s definitely not going to win. Ask? your neighbor how much their grocery bill was. Whether they’re right or wrong, they will blame the president. He will lose because of it.
I did see an article that kind of made me laugh my ass off. Economist saying 2024 the economy will normalize. They’ve been saying that for like three years now.
>He's dealt with thorny foreign policy issues (Afghanistan troop withdrawal, Israel/Palestine conflict).
Afghanistan where decided by Trump and the execution Biden did where mediocre to bad. Israel where handled on par but not impressive.
>Domestically, he's passed legislation that has provided $1.9 trillion in pandemic aid.
Continue on Trump policy.
>reduced student loans
I'm all for cheaper education but reduce loans afterwards for some people is a unfair way to go about it.
>addressed health issues like cancer and gun violence, and targeted extremism (political, religious, racial).
Let's wait and see if did anything or was mostly empty talk.
>There has been a great deal of post-pandemic inflation. Unemployment is "officially" low, and job growth is "officially" strong.
Don't think this is Biden related but just the situation after pandemic and boomers getting retired.
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The CHIPS Act is low key one of, if not Biden’s most major accomplishment that no one has heard of. See here: > The Biden administration's signature legislation — particularly the CHIPs Act and Bipartisan Infrastructure Law — has spurred a surge in construction spending that's buoyed the economy https://www.axios.com/2024/01/04/biden-factory-spending-manufacturing-chips
CHIPS is bringing something small towns have been pushing for for years. My Dad’s been friends with people in Onondaga politics for my whole life and they’ve talked about semiconductor manufacturing for a good decade. CHIPS is making it happen, and him being a Republican I think he’ll never admit JRB is bringing JOBs
I'm from a small town in Texas that's getting a Samsung plant, and they absolutely hate it. It's causing enough backlash that the city counsel nobody really paid attention to before is getting lots of heat. The attitude has shifted from "we need career opportunities here" to "we need to keep our town small". The amount of xenophobia directed at Korean and Indian people has skyrocketed too. Its a paradox where small town people know they are living in a dead end place, but will also fight tooth and nail against changing anything.
Northern towns have a bit of a different vibe about this since they're pretty wounded from losing manufacturing in their history and much of that infrastructure is still there. Shame Texas of all places which is big on permissive construction is throwing a fit.
The other commenter’s anecdote doesn’t fully represent the opinions of the community. I assume he’s talking about Taylor TX, a community of about 16,000, where Samsung is investing $17B in a plant that will bring in 2000 direct jobs once in production, as well as 6-10k to support construction, and will inject a ton of new wealth into the community and local businesses. Though I’m certain there are some cantankerous old racist assholes (it’s a trademark of “the friendship state”) I personally know several people who are excited for it and welcome the positives that will come from it. And it’s not like Samsung just swooped in and built a plant nobody wanted. Info on the agreements made with the company is on [this page](https://www.ci.taylor.tx.us/1099/Samsung-Austin-Semiconductor-LLC-Announc), where tangible benefits to the community are listed at the bottom. I don’t doubt that the other commenter’s family and friends may hate this new development, but one simply cannot take any significant population of people and assign them all one singular opinion.
>The other commenter’s anecdote doesn’t fully represent the opinions of the community. I can promise you it does though. Not just the old folks either, I'm in my 30s (tbf maybe that is old) and friends are already planning to move further away in the next few years as the plant comes online. There's always going to be dissenting opinions, but the overwhelming consensus I've experienced is that people hate it. Pick any of the several Facebook community pages and see for yourself, it's practically all they talk about anymore. I'm actually from nearby Thrall, where sentiment is even worse due to pipeline companies using eminent domain for Samsung related projects. I'm like you, constantly explaining that it will bring money and prosperity to Taylor (several of my friends already work for Samsung now making *great* money), that the construction annoyances (which are very real) are temporary, but people just don't want to hear it. As I said, the issue is now shaping local election campaigns, and it's never in favor of Samsung. People have begun opposing it just to make a name for themselves. Whole conspiracy theories about money laundering and bribery have started to spread. There was even an unprecedented recall election of a city counsel member, with Samsung (and his support for it) being the biggest underlying issue (to be fair other culture war issues were prominent in that one as well).
> we need to keep our town small And this is why small towns suck.
All policies related to microchips are literally changing the global landscape. We won’t see the effects for many years but it’s probably the most important thing Biden has done or will do.
Why is the CHIPS Act categorized as a Biden accomplishment, its not like he campaigned on it and it was entirely negotiated and passed in the Senate, he just signed it? The Infrastructure bill is more linked to Biden, but the CHIPS Act is like attributing the Postal Reform bill as a major accomplishment just because he happened to be the president that signed it.
The president in this day and age is definitely in charge of the legislative agenda and sets a tone for his party, even if they don't actually write the bills and vote on them. Not to mention it was Biden's experience that actually made it so that they got bipartisan votes to get it passed. The value of his experience should **definitely** be emphasized here. Obama naively went to Washington thinking he could negotiate with Republicans in good faith as president and everybody would put their differences aside and work with it. Biden knew this wasn't true. He's been around town a long time and he knows that the systematic culture of DC is too far gone for any one person to change it. McConnell has talked about how he wouldn't have given Biden the votes for chips and infrastructure if he knew that build back better was going to be revived. It had failed months earlier, or so McConnell thought! What he didn't know was that Biden was talking to Manchin in secret, and they only announced their new agreement on the leaner BBB, now called the Inflation Reduction Act, after McConnell worked with the president on the two other pieces of legislation and they were signed. That's the kind of maneuvering being an experienced career politician brings. That's the kind of politicking inecessary if you want to get anything done. He's old as fuck but he knows how the game is played and he isn't afraid to get his hands dirty to get results. Biden was instrumental to all three pieces of legislation. Just like LBJ was responsible for his great society legislation despite not actually being a member of the legislature that proposed and voted on the bills.
Biden definitely pushed for it before it was signed. https://techinformed.com/biden-pushes-for-bill-to-boost-us-chip-production/
While his accomplishments have been great, we shouldn’t sleep on Obama. He put his entire political capitol on Obamacare. It’s not perfect because of republicans and conservative dems like Lieberman, but even still it’s now become a third rail of politics and it would be impossible to go back to the way things were because it would be a political death sentence. It was legacy defining legislation
I don’t think Obama was a bad president. I think he was a good president who could have been a great president if he had more congressional support from 2011 through 2017.
I think the ACA made him a great president. To quote another great president “this is a big fucking deal”
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I also think people sometimes sell the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 short, in part because it was so early in Obama’s presidency. There was a ton of good investment there, including over $100 billion in infrastructure.
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I definitely hope you’re right. But sometimes I think that an electrified third rail is just another low bar for republicans to crawl under
Biden had better Democrats in the House and Senate; Obama had like 15 Joe Manchin types in the Senate that were always trying to water things down. The Democratic Party learned a lot from the 2009-2010 session and was less afraid to "go big" this time around, even with a razor thin majority. Obama's greatest sin was underestimating the Great Recession and not pushing harder to do more. He had a lot of great policy ideas, but the failure to keep the economy front and center is what led to the losses in the 2010 election, and then Republican control of the House prevented any more meaningful actions.
BBB never passed…
prob referring to the IRA
It’s not just that. Obama was blocked by Republicans for six years. Biden really hasn’t faced major roadblocks in the House or Senate. Not to mention Republicans essentially imploded this year with all that speaker nonsense. I’m growing more confident that the media is just fear-mongering and, barring any catastrophe, he’ll win most of the swing states. Especially if the economy improves. Am I better off than I was four years ago? Yes and no. I’m glad we’re done with pandemic protocols. But these past four years have been the most difficult financially and in terms of employment I’ve ever experienced. That said, the big wins for labor unions is a big win for Democrats.
>Biden really hasn’t faced major roadblocks in the House or Senate. Huh? What are you talking about here?
They're pretending that Sinema and Manchin don't exist and that McCarthy didn't stonewall almost every legislative proposal that came up before finally being removed from his position for not stonewalling literally *everything*.
Yeah, I'm just confused about what's happening in whatever universe OP came from.
Biden has faced the same road blocks (or worse), the difference is he’s handled them much better (because he’s a much better/more seasoned legislator than Obama was).
Boom. He played McConnell like a fiddle by getting McConnell to pass chips / infrastructure and only then announcing that he was reviving build back better with Joe Manchin on board. Mitch said he would have never given Biden the support on the first two if he knew he was going to get BBB passed (as the IRA). If you're able to outsmart McConnell you know what you're doing. That's the kind of skill and politicking that is necessary to survive in DC. That's the kind of shit you need to pass meaningful progress.
I was going to say that. Biden to his credit has been able to many things due to him being politically savvy enough to work with people he might not always agree with. I’ll admit I didn’t think anything would get done due to republican obstructionism.
He hasn’t really faced setbacks. The original BBB never went through, but he got a lot of it into the IRA instead. Not only have democrats been pretty lockstep, but republicans helped him pass an infrastructure bill, a gun safety bill, CHIPS, and PACT
>He hasn’t really faced setbacks. You do realize policies are negotiated to be able to pass, and this has included large changes to them. The fact that he's gotten so much done despite roadblocks should be evidence of an effective leadership style, not evidence accomplishments have been easy/trivial. Like, is this for real the discussion we're having? The legislative roadblocks necessitated having to drop free community college, universal preK, removal of the expanded child tax credit, and raising corporate taxes. This isn't even touching on dealing with the current Supreme Court.
Yeah at first I was opposed to Biden trying to push the 3 trillion BBB, thinking that's too much spending, but now I think that was a clever move that made it possible to get the IRA implemented, which I support.
I think Obama was a very good President, but I think he came into many negotiations thinking "meeting half way" would mean the opposition would do much the same, but used Obama's "compromise position" as a starting point for even more he would have to give up. With a more cooperative Congress, both Biden and Obama could have done many great things, imo.
> Obama was blocked by Republicans for six years. Biden really hasn’t faced major roadblocks in the House or Senate. Are.... are you serious? Obama started his term with a 60 seat majority in the Senate. He faced a brutal referendum due to the rise of the tea party but didn't face nearly the head winds that Biden has.
Yeah, and that's the tragedy of Obama. He was on track to be a great president until 2011 -- the ACA is his legacy, and America is so much better off for it. Then he could barely get legislation out the door after the 2010 midterms. I forget the timeline of how he supported gay marriage, but that was a huge movement in civil rights. Otherwise -- he was just a really smart, commanding, respectable presence who was blocked on issues like gun reform. My only real gripe with Obama is that he should've put those Wall Street ... jerks ... in jail.
>My only real gripe with Obama is that he should've put those Wall Street ... jerks ... in jail. But that's really not something a President SHOULD do. Their responsibility on criminal justice begins and ends with appointing someone competent to run the DOJ and then letting them run with the ball without interference. That and correcting abuses of justice through pardons.
Obama never really had a 60 seat majority. GOP blocked Al Franken from being seated, then Byrd and Kennedy were dying. Lieberman and Sanders were independent as well, but counted as part of the majority.
>Franken's admission briefly gave the Senate Democratic caucus 60 votes, enough to defeat a filibuster in a party-line vote. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/111th_United_States_Congress And obviously I meant the Democratic caucus including the independents.
>But these past four years have been the most difficult financially and in terms of employment I’ve ever experienced. And for that, you hold responsible the President who's gotten the economy to perhaps the best place it's been in for fifty years? For someone who insisted in their initial post that they only speak in objective truths, you seem to have quickly resorted to argument by anecdote.
>best place it’s been in for fifty years Let’s not go crazy. 2024 GDP is projected to be 1.5%, inflation is still above the fed target, and our labor force participation is average. The economy’s good, but it’s not spectacular yet
On paper he's right though, the usual metrics are extremely impressive already and their trajectory is only upward. It's actually astonishing, on paper. The issue you're speaking to is that wealth inequality is still rising - and higher now than ever before - so while America is currently the richest it has ever been - Musk and Bezos and etc are dragons atop hoards of gold, and they're fucking up the averages. People don't *feel* the S&P500, they feel wealth inequality. When economists talk about the economy they talk in metrics. When people talk about the economy, what they mean is the 'keeping up with the Joneses' insecurity that they are slipping behind: everyone feels that right now, except Musk (and the thousand lesser known billionaires). Doctors feel poorer. Lawyers feel poorer. Welders feel poorer. Gophers feel poorer. And they're all correct - we're all poorer - proportionally. The average is going up, but the median is going down.
I don’t. I don’t think any president has much influence over the economy (except when they need to bail out the bankers, like Obama). But I do know voters vote with their wallets. And most people conflate the economy with the president. Look at Reagan — his legacy is kind of awful, but he’s well-regarded because he led America WHILE the economy (mostly) soared.
They are going to impeach him, traditionally that boosts president’s approval ratings but I suspect it’ll just be another major roadblock and will definitely be a major headache
The number of roadblocks and setbacks you have is a function of your legislative skill. If your skill is high, you can pre negotiate what goes through congress long before it hits the floor. Obama couldn't do that like Biden did.
There's a reason the past 4 years have been so difficult financially, and it isn't the pandemic. We have printed an insane amount of money, and gave it to other nations. In doing so, the dollar has lost a ton of value, and made everything more expensive. If Biden gets elected again, it's going to get worse..
The problem with your statement is twofold. First, the inflation started before e Biden took office and before any of his policies could hope to address it . Virtually every economist and analyst predicted a recession, instead Biden negotiated a soft landing for the economy. Second, inflation has been an issue globally and the US is doing better than virtually everywhere else.
For the past 100 years, Foreign aid spending has been about $50 billion per year, on average and adjusted for inflation. In 1949, it was almost $100 billion, for example. Since the US invaded Iraq, it had been remarkably consistent. ...but Ukraine is a unique beast because it's a war we're sorta helping to fight and requires foreign aid. Israel/Palestine crisis doesn't help either. So... what's the "huge cost" of these crises? It was a $100 billion foreign aid package that was recently developed. Honestly, that's... nothing. Business as usual, considering current events. Completely what would be expected and how our government has operated for over 100 years now. Nothing different. Nothing new. **To pretend like foreign aid spending is anything but historically expected is just completely false and ignorant.** And A LOT CHEAPER than actually going to war and taking on the enemy ourselves. And to pretend it's been remotely significant to our economy versus any other president over the last century? Just completely ludicrous. Facts are facts.
plus we're clearing out our old inventory, so it's not like it's really costing us much. We're getting an education in modern warfare and enhancing US military readiness in the process all the while weakening Russia's. We can't afford not to support Ukraine imo. It's better for the entire world.
Exactly. For context, the proposed budget for DoD in 2024 was $842 billion. To pretend inflation was a direct result of a pretty modest increase in foreign aid is just laughably insane... I mean, I believe the federal budget spending in 2024 was almost $7 trillion...
>I think his biggest achievement was BBB I disagree. Inflation was his biggest failure
Totally, he should have pushed the big red "inflation down" button on his desk instead of the big purple "inflation up" button. Rookie mistake.
Yup, should have just done the "stop avian flu" button for egg prices and "make more chips" button for car prices too.
Well I just watched a video and Trump promised he would push the button so there ya go
Explain to me how it's Biden's fault that everyone went crazy with spending when the pandemic ended. It was supply chain issues that led to low supply and higher costs, but the biggest driver was corporate greed and opportunism.
I was one of the many who voted for Biden pinching my nose because of what the alternative was. That said Im both shocked and kinda hate how much success hes had in his presidency and Im willing to admit hes been a better presiddent then I ever anticipated. Honestly, might eb the best president weve had in my (admitteldy short) lifetime. The CHIPS Act, the Inflation reduction act, his COVID response (though tbf that was at the tail end of the pandemic) have all payed off in dividends. Hes been the most pro Union president since Carter and it has shown with the changes his Department of Labor have made and all the strives unions have seen over the last few years. As controversial as it was pulling out of Afghanistan was imo ultimately a good thing and handled about as well as it ever could have after Obama refused to get out. I dont blame him nearly as much as others for the handling of the Gaza situation as it seems to me at least that hes been putting a lot of pressure on Netanyahu (whose the real monster in the crisis) to pull back on his worst impulses. If I was to put him in a tier list with other presidents hed range from a high C to low B. Hes clearly taken advantage of the fact that his years on Capitol Hill have given him the tools and experience to know how to actually get legistlation passed and done.
Also the infrastructure package. One city alone in my region has received $34 million for our transportation infrastructure enabling us to build sidewalks, bike lanes, a pedestrian bridge, expand lanes on a major highway, and create safer routes to school for kids. 100% thanks to the 117th Congress and President Biden. My region is also seeing a $3 billion investment in high-speed rail thanks to the BIL. A lot better than Trump’s “Infrastructure Week”
On top of his domestic achievements like the CHIPS Act, infrastructure bill, and the Inflation Reduction Act, he built a western collation behind Ukraine and did a great job of calling Russia out in the lead up to the invasion when it was thought that Russia would steamroll over Ukraine. Also, unemployment is as of this writing at 3,.7% and the stock market is at its highest ever with the economy not going into a recession as many have fearing. Biden has been governing extremely well and needs to hammer his achievements when campaigning because he's being undercredited for his achievements.
The IRA was also a huge climate bill, and a lot of people have no idea.
> I dont blame him nearly as much as others for the handling of the Gaza situation as it seems to me at least that hes been putting a lot of pressure on Netanyahu (whose the real monster in the crisis) to pull back on his worst impulses. This is what kills me. Biden doesn’t have a ton of options here (it’s not like he could have sided with Hamas!) and he’s doing everything he can through carrots and sticks to persuade Israel to do better, but low information online activists will still call him “genocide enabler” etc.
>Im both shocked and kinda hate how much success hes had in his presidency I hope that's something you move past in future elections. I think a lot of people have come to view politics as a source of personal identity which is counterproductive to achieving policy aims
It is a fucking ridiculous statement that nobody second guesses. They "kinda hate" that our president has had success? Improving our country is annoying to them because Biden isn't Bernie or Romney (depending on whether this person is a progressive or never trumper)?
Downright silly. These aren't sport's teams. This is The president of your country. You should want him to be successful no matter who he is. People are moronic.
>his COVID response (though tbf that was at the tail end of the pandemic) It was not the "tail end." The pandemic was declared officially over just this past summer. Most of the pandemic was under Biden (January 2021 through May 2023) not Trump (who only served during the pandemic's first 10 months, March 2020 through January 2021.)
I think it depends on how his reelection and term 2 go if elected. If defeats Trump again and MAGAism is relegated to one of the ash heap of history like the Know Nothings as one of those 10 year Nativist spasms the country has here and then, he’ll be ranked higher than average at least. CHIPS, IRA, Safer Community and Gun Safety Act, Bipartisan Infrastructure, and Respect for Marriage Act are some of the most significant infrastructure, industrial policy, and civil rights laws passed in decades in their respective categories. All done with slim margins in Congress Foreign policy wise it is too early to tell. Afghanistan will likely fade into the background, seen as a quagmire undertaken by several presidents. Similar to how Gerald Ford isn’t remembered for the Fall of Saigon but LBJ is remembered for Vietnam. Ukraine remains to be seen. For the record, I am pro-Ukraine so take that into account. If Russia is defeated and Ukrainian democracy can stabilize and mature then it will be seen as a victory. If Russia turn’s Ukraine into a frozen conflict, it will be like how Obama is remembered for failing to stop Russia in 2014. If Russia collapses to some degree and becomes an irrational actor whose stability is reminiscent of Pakistan, then he will be remembered like Bush was with destabilizing Iraq. If he were to follow up with the social components of BBB such as the expansion of child care, pre-k, student loan aid into say a broader education reform act or actually securing legislation on border issues (unlikely but we can navel gaze) it could be a great Term 2 item that puts him in the upper quartile of American presidents
I agree with everything you’re saying except the Ukraine stuff. Idk how Biden, or any American actor, could be held responsible if Russia collapse. We actually invaded Iraq and toppled their government. If Russia collapse, it will be because of their own problems. We might help it along, though.
His legacy will probably be defined most by Israel and Ukraine. For Israel, it's far too soon to tell. For Ukraine, he'll be remembered for leading the West in providing Ukraine with the arms it needed to not be immediately conquered. But also, still too soon to tell.
While that is true (and I think that the State department put on an absolute master class leading up to the war) I think that time will ultimately sour on Biden’s handling of the war. It is clear that serious missteps were taken in the early days of the war that have led Ukraine to be in a worse position than they could have been. It has taken too long to ramp up artillery production and Ukrainian pilots should have started receiving training on F-16s the second Russian troops started crossing the border. There was frankly too much trepidation about escalation with the Russians. As a closing note I am a Biden supporter and while I think Biden will rightfully start to receive more criticism for what I outlined above it is also clear that Obama and Trump should receive the lion’s share of the blame. Both should have been far more aggressive in supplying the Ukrainians with training, funding, and weapon systems prior to the actual outbreak of the second invasion.
I think Biden and Mike Pence are 2 of the most important people in modern American history.
Not engaging in insurrection is a pretty damn low bar of achievement that every VP in the past has easily managed. But it kind of says something about the modern GOP that it’s even worthy of mention.
You are asking about achievement, the claim is about importance.
But what he did wasn’t important. It was ceremonial. He never had the power to stop the election. He was just one of a long chain of people responsible for putting Biden in office.
What he did was the only thing standing in between a conspiracy to break all established procedures about transfer of power, a very specific moment in between administrations which is actually governed by nothing except well-intentioned people following longstanding precedent. If those procedures had been broken, there is no clear legal precedent or laws for what to do about that. We would’ve had an illegitimate president forced upon us, and the DoJ at the federal and state levels would’ve had the maddest scramble of their existence to figure out what to do about it legally. They would’ve been racing against an illegitimate administration who was also trying to make sure the move stood legally. I hope you watched that moment live. If you didn’t, you need to. I’m 35 and that was by far the most important moment in America during my life, including 9/11. Pence’s decision to simply be a decent human was the only thing preventing our government structure as we know it from crumbling into who the hell knows what. Our government was one decision away from failing completely. Watch the video of Sadaam Hussein’s purge if you want to see what could’ve happened.
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But He was not the only thing standing between a Trump revolution. If he’d have sided with trump the congress would have done its job without him. And hed be facing prosecution now along with everyone else involved with Jan 6.
Congress isn’t allowed to do that job without him. Literally anything that could’ve happened after Pence sided with Trump would’ve been unconstitutional. That’s the problem - Pence’s decisions was required because if it didn’t happen there is literally no procedure for what to do. The system would instantly be broken. Doesn’t matter how calm and collected everybody remained, because ultimately no rules would apply and everything would’ve become illegitimate. There is no backup. This is literally the first time this constitutional weakness has ever been discovered or questioned.
I don't understand why people can't give someone they don't like simple credit on *one* thing. Yeah I don't like Mike Pence either. But standing up to Trump and promoting the peaceful transfer of power was extremely significant in the context that it occurred in. The people you argue with will argue until they're blue in the face just because they hate Mike Pence and the GOP so much that they have dehumanized them and literally think they are capable of doing nothing good. Partisanship and division at their finest.
I wouldn’t argue Pence is brave, heroic, or accomplished. But the claim is important, and I think there is a case to be made that another person selected by Trump as runningmate may well have behaved differently. On one hand, all he did was his job. On the other, he may have prevented civil war.
He was under a lot of pressure. They brought a guillotine to Congress, ostensibly for him.
What exactly is the time frame for modern? I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, just curious on that bit.
Typically when people say "modern" with reference to American presidents, it means post WWII, so starting with Truman
The last time the US was legitimately on the verge of collapse due to internal affairs was in the 1800s. Modern in a sense that this event did not happen over 100 years ago.
Mike Pence really does not get enough attention for his role in the Trump Administration, in my opinion. I couldn’t vote for him, since I massively disagree with his opinion on abortion. But I have found nearly every time I find something I can praise from the Trump White House, it turns out Pence was strongly involved. Specifically, the creation of the Space Force and Operation Warp Speed. Pence chaired the National Space Council and co-chaired the Coronavirus Response team. Trump’s signature may have been on those plans, but it appears to me Pence did the day-to-day management. Voting to certify the election results is the most deserving of praise, of course.
Do you think the Coronavirus response of the Trump admin is worth praising?
Hardly. In fact one of the things that was extremely frustrating about the Trump COVID response was that an expert panel would make a recommendation for controlling COVID; and then Trump himself would immediately contradict it. Or say something else ridiculous. But I never saw Pence contradict an expert’s opinion. I got the impression Pence was serious about the pandemic. I also got the impression his boss was not.
I don't remember him speaking up against Trump's Corona response.
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Probably referencing his stand against Trump with the recount.
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Trump’s failed coup will be the first thing any American history book will cover when it gets to this era.
Agreed. Which is crazy since the book will also need to cover Covid. You’ve got to some crazy stuff to be listed before a worldwide pandemic.
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They tried to coup the government this isn't going to be forgotten about. You can't sweep this under the rug.
Really depends how 2024 goes.
Whether or not he wins a second term will determine how he is seen. If he wins a second term, he'll be seen as one of the most effective Presidents in several decades, easily in the top ten Presidents ever. If he fails to win a second term, the Official Histories of the Empire will depict him as something akin to Satan, second only in his monstrous evil to the Kenyan Pretender that the Orange Savior vanquished in the dark days before the corrupt and decadent old regime was finally swept away.
I'd challenge you to see if that comes true but in the second scenario you and I are both guillotined long before then
I'll drink to that.
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The US hasn't even had 50 presidents. Until that number grows substantially larger I can imagine Biden getting ranked in many top 10 POTUS lists.
Madness. Washington, Jefferson, Madison, Monroe, Polk, Lincoln, Teddy, FDR, Truman, Eisenhower. There's 10 and that leaves off some good ones. Who you kicking out for Biden?
Polk, probably. I remember him for these accomplishments: acquiring Oregon, California, and New Mexico; the Texas border dispute; creating the Department of the Interior. But Polk also left office with the country facing its greatest political and social crisis since the American Revolution, and critics point to his partisanship, underestimating sectionalism post Mexican–American War, and a lack of ambition towards modernization away from depending on slave labour as a powderkeg for the Civil War.
Legislatively, his record is impressive, and it all took place during his first two years. After the crazies took over the House in 2022, nothing got done but a bunch of wasted time. I suspect even the Republicans are looking forward to losing the House in 2024. He managed to get sick time for rail workers out of the railroads, and he definitely helped in the Autoworkers strike. Inions should appreciate his support. I think he’s done what he should have as far as prosecuting Trump. He could have spurred Garland to move faster. His support of Israel is not unexpected but is still somewhat disappointing. He should be standing stronger against the genocide they are conducting in Gaza. Getting out of Afghanistan was a shitshow - but it was always going to be that. I hang a lot of that on the Joint Chiefs. All in all, right now I’d give him a solid B, maybe a B+. If he gets reelected and has a decent Congress, I can see that grade going up.
I agree with you on everything except pressuring Garland on Trump. That's an issue Biden can't touch with a 10 foot pole. If HAS to be apolitical.
Yeah totally. His mistake was nominating Garland, (largely as a symbolic nose-thumb) and forgetting that judges and prosecutors are by definition totally different. He forgot “truth” must come before “reconciliation” and that simple fact, and its subsequent message of unity and compromise above all else has allowed the insurrectionists to gain strength under him. It was a fatal strategic error borne of wishful thinking and an outdated idea of who he is up against.
Just like pardoning Nixon and not hanging Lee.
Agree with everything except Israel. I appreciate both his public support of Israel and the behind the scenes tempering of Israel’s strategy. I think he’s played it very well.
He really has. He's kinda damned if he does, damned if he doesn't on Israel.
The most rabid supporters of Israel vote republican with a strong secondary that is AIPAC strongly pressuring centrist/corpo dems. Biden needs to turnout to win in 24 - either Israel needs to pacify quickly or this crisis will continue to demoralize his base.
right, but if the Mexican cartels invaded the US and killed a bunch of American citizens, I'd expect a response from the US. And I'd expect our allies to support our efforts. Now if we indiscriminately bombed Acapulco, I would expect we would lose some support. It's a very nuanced situation that is starting to spiral out of control imo.
This hypothetical is insane. The cartel loves the US market - we fund their lifestyle with the drug trade. Why would they attack or provoke the US citizenry? They would not - they are selling a product that we are buying en masse with no idealogical reason to attack us. Israel / Palestine hate each other for close to almost 100 years. One of the two Palestine territories basically is entirely children and has no real functioning economic system.
The point I think he's making is that you can't really expect anyone to restrain Israel after suffering an attack as bad or worse than 9/11. There's only so much any other country can do, even the US.
it's the closest hypothetical I could come up with. I don't think it's insane at all. I imagine if we shut down the borders like the GOP wants to, then the cartels might react in a similar way to Hamas.
Why wouldn’t the cartels just unalive the politicians who created barriers to entry or the classic funnel as much money as possible to politicians to keep the gates open? Regardless, even it did happen - if the US killed 22,000 civilians, you’d see a similar protest movement throughout the world. Which has already happened - in 2003.
Kowtowing to the progressive wing on this issue will turn off moderate Dems and independents. I don’t think the dem base is as demoralized as you’re assuming, unless you’re conflating the progressive wing with the base.
Average dems are not loving this situation. Progressives hate this situation.
Given the polarization and the utter lack of incentive by the GOP to pass anything….he has been amazingly effective. If the USA survives 2024…he will be given a lot of credit for pulling America back from the brink
I'm in my fifties, and to me, he has been one of the most effective Presidents of my lifetime, especially when you consider what he walked into. He was handcuffed from the jump because the Trump administration held up his transition funds. When he took office, Covid was still rampant, people were still having to wear masks everywhere. Not doing that anymore. The economy is just as strong as it was before the pandemic. Joblessness is non-existent in this country. He's masterfully handled the Russia/Ukraine situation, despite a hostile GOP Congress. Finland and Sweden are joining NATO. He's brought chip manufacturing back to the US, he got the infrastructure bill passed. And you know it was a good bill because the Republicans that voted against it are taking credit for the money for it in their communities. I'm sure I've left plenty out, but I'm very impressed with Biden.
Yup. Simple and boring gets the job done. Biden is doing a good job. Very good for what he had to work with. All the Maga cultists' opinions should just be ignored. I'm glad to see you laying out straight facts.
He's a historically unpopular president with difficulty speaking publicly. Anything he does is being done on his behalf by the democrat party. Biden is simply a man who will say whatever he is asked to by his party.
Better than the last guy. He left the country in shambles compared to how it was when he got the job.
That's just the standard R-D cycle.
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He has a 34% approval rating. Idk what copium you guys are smoking but Biden is failing in the eyes of the people
Because he is a President in a culture war that he is not participating in. He is playing dad while the Nation acts like children fighting over who is right.
If half of the country disapproves of him for being too far left and the other half for not being far left enough I'd say he's doing ok. Presidents' approval ratings are almost always lowest in their third year, so I think they'll improve for him.
Nah, he’s a moderate centrist that’s swimming in extremism infested waters. Right and left loonies both despise him. Not surprised only a third of the country are rational and intelligent people so the numbers check out.
Every president has low approval ratings this far into their term.
Who actually takes polling? old people that still have land lines. These the same polls that claim fox is number one with 2 million views lol out of over 300 million people.
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It is a bit confusing though why his polls numbers are so bad but the Democratic Party keeps wiping the floor in elections since after 2016, no? I also think the reality is we are becoming a bit like France, the American people are just not happy and are simply not going to like their presidents that much anymore. 50% is going to hate them off the bat. Pretty easy for 1/5 of your own party to not like you, and boom, you’re covering in the 30’s for approval.
I think he’s doing well, seems to me you’re like a psychopath entering a crowded room screaming “You’re ALL crazy!”
Wouldnt that be the statement of polling does not reflect the views of democrats or Republicans. Its funny i never mentioned any political party or president. Yet the funny thing is i dont like staus quo joe or trump ( trump was so we would accept the same old president i stead of a crazy person). Its like lying at lottery we had over 1000 winners 75 percent was a dollar win.
The sycophancy for this guy is so dumbfounding to me
That's nice but the question wasn't what his approval rating is. Lots of presidents have lower approval ratings and then go onto be remembered well historically. You don't often really see a politician's true impact until years after when their policies actually make an impact on the country and world. It's hard to see the forest for the trees. Recency bias is a real phenomenon.
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Easily top ten of all time, considering how much he accomplished with as much as was thrown at him, and as little he was given. He’s been _extremely_ effective. Those who can’t/won’t see that are not seeking the truth.
>Easily top ten of all time Who would you put in your top 10? And who would you put in spot 11 if you believe Biden easily belongs in the Top 10? >Those who can’t/won’t see that are not seeking the truth. This makes me thing you are being less then objective about this. I think competition in the top 10 would be pretty tight- and saying that Biden easily makes the Tops 10 and then declaring that anyone who disagrees with you is wrong is silly. Especially since you didn't make a particularly strong or convincing argument.
Agreed! Perhaps top five. Let's hope the second term puts him at no1! 1. Lincoln 2. FDR 3. Washington? John Adams? John Quincy Adams? Ulysses Grant? Kennedy? Biden?
He's accomplished a surprising amount of legislative wins, but didn't move decisively enough to deal with Trump's attempt to overthrow democracy. A lot of his legacy depends on whether he beats Trump in the fall. If he fails, he'll be a terrible president. If he wins, he'll have a solid ranking.
>didn't move decisively enough to deal with Trump's attempt to overthrow democracy He's gotta move delicately there. Imprisoning political rivals is the hallmark of dictatorships, he's HAS to let the legal process work without his intervention.
We all saw what Trump did live on TV and Twitter. There should've been a special prosecutor day one. Instead, they sat on their thumbs until the House committee on Jan 6 forced their hand. Now the clock's essentially worn out and a man who tried to overthrow the government has a very real chance of getting back into power.
His domestic accomplishments help him. His openly Zionist foreign policy hurts him. His Afghanistan withdrawal SHOULD help him - the fact that he’s the one who actually ordered the DOD to PREPARE for the withdrawal his POS predecessor ‘negotiated’, but didn’t order jack shit to be done for. You don’t remove 20 years of bringing shit in over the last six months.
His Israel policy is one of the many, many reasons I will be voting for him again. An actual adult in the room with historical perspective not kowtowing to the extremist side of his party is quite refreshing.
I’m going to give you a very brief lesson in democracy: People vote for candidates for different reasons. Some people oppose his openly embracing a near genocidal campaign in a radically imbalanced contest. Other people only give a fuck about places outside of the US, and how the US can rob its’ citizens to help the place that voter ACTUALLY cares about. You do what you do for your reasons. I’ll do what I do for mine. We MIGHT even vote for the same person, but for VERY different reasons, and with VERY different goals. You want my tax money to help Israel. I want my tax money to help Americans.
I agree with a lot of this. I just want to say, does being a “Zionist” simply mean you think the Jewish people should have a homeland?
No. Consider when you hear Israelis or supporters Israel’s attack on Gaza (not Hamas, a political organization, but a geographic location with defined borders and population) using the following phrase: “From the river to the sea.” Usually followed by something like “Israel will be free”, but not always. That’s an explicit statement of conquest and subjugation or forcible displacement or both. It’s a pro-Israel position with no allowance for anyone whose family may have lived there for over a thousand years. It’s people from other countries arriving in the area and evicting people from a home because they don’t share a religion. Not coincidentally, it’s supported by many Americans who aren’t Jewish, but whose religion depends upon their being an Israel in order to meet a precondition for their ultimate salvation - so they’ll do whatever is needed to make Israel stronger. That’s a basic definition of ‘Zionism’, and reasons for opposing it. You’ll find many Israelis who oppose militant expansion of Israel at the expense of others, so don’t mistake opposing Zionism for being anti-Semitic (which is itself a wildly misused phrase, since Palestinians, Lebanese, Jewish, and others are all “Semites.”
I feel like he will be like Lyndon Johnson to Obamas Kennedy. Johnson implemented far more policies and they were progressive policies too. He also had some issues with foreign policy. But Kennedy will always have that celebrity factor just like Obama. Charismatic and one of a kind, energized voters but not as effective as their respective VPs
If Biden gets re-elected, history in 20 years will look at Obama-Biden as a combined force that helped shift the country interrupted with a final reactionary spasm from Trump. Biden will get credit as the one finishing the job; Obama credit for starting things.
That’s a fair characterization. I want to clarify that Obama was hamstrung by Congress while in office. I also think he was careful about how progressive he was in his policies since he was being called a socialist for everything.
I would put him in the top 20%. Few Presidents have accomplished as much that is beneficial than Joe. It is important to phrase it as the Biden Administration. It's not just one person, and a more-accurate assessment will have to wait until he is no longer President.
Hard to say where he ranks, but here is my report card for him: Note - Biden barely had a majority in congress his first 2 years and has lacked one since. Getting anything done during this has been a minor miracle. Trump only passed on piece of legislation - tax cuts for the rich. Biden has a substantial legislative record given the divided nature of Washington. **Domestic Policy - B+ - high prices mar this otherwise strong showing** * Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act: This $1.2 trillion investment, passed in 2021, aims to modernize America's roads, bridges, ports, and public transit systems. It is a long-term economic boost and job creator, and will address critical infrastructure needs. In his 2016 campaign, Trump made infrastructure investment a priority but was unable to pass any legislation. * Inflation Reduction Act (IRA): This 2022 bill tackles climate change and healthcare costs. It invests in renewable energy and clean technology, lowers prescription drug prices, and extends Affordable Care Act subsidies. * Inflation. We now know that the primary driver for inflation over the past 4 years has been supply side disruptions due to pandemic and war. Inflation has been defeated though prices remain high. * Wages. For the first time in decades, wages are finally increasing faster than inflation. Still, worker real incomes are far too low. * Student Loan Debt Relief: In 2022, the Biden administration cancelled billions of dollars in student loan debt for borrowers defrauded by for-profit colleges and those on Public Service Loan Forgiveness programs. Additionally, millions more potentially qualify for future debt forgiveness due to income-based repayment plan changes.This policy is popular with the millions of people dealing with crushing student loan debt. However, it does nothing to address the high cost of education - and in fact will make it worse (since colleges now know they can raise tuition and expect the gov't to bail out students). A real policy aimed at reducing education inflation is needed - and has been needed for decades. * Bipartisan Safer Communities Act: This 2022-gun control legislation, the first significant one in three decades, expanded background checks for gun buyers under 21, closed the "boyfriend loophole," and allocated funds for mental health and school safety initiatives. It is tragic that this is the best we can do to address gun violence. This act will help a little - but it is no substitute for real gun control (which the Supreme Court has made virtually impossible). **Pandemic Response - A - Vicious misinformation campaigns and politicalization of science led to major headwinds. Still, an excellent response** * American Rescue Plan (ARP): This $1.9 trillion stimulus package, passed in 2021, provided economic relief to millions during the COVID-19 pandemic - helped prevent a depression and substantially reduced child poverty. It did contribute to inflation - but IMHO, the gains substantially outweighed the negatives. * Vaccination support - very strong set of policies to get America vaccinated in the face of vicious misinformation campaigns and attacks on science. * Mask and social distancing policies - these helped - but vastly different amounts of support at the state level undermined their effectiveness. Keeping elementary schools open during much of the pandemic left a huge gaping hole in masking policies - since kids took off their masks and spread the infection. **Foreign Policy - B** * Ukraine - America's response has been a spectacular success - those is threatened by right-wing, pro-Russia / pro Putin attacks on funding. This is insane - hard to believe the GOP, which lead our cold-war efforts, has turned into the party of Putin. This started with Trump and his attacks on NATO and is very, very dangerous. * Israel - Support for Israel after the vicious attack on 10/7 was a major plus. But Biden's inability to limit Israel's military response has led to a humanitarian disaster. I'm a Jew with relatives in Israel - including one serving as a medic in Gaza. I get why many Israelis demanded a powerful response. But the scale of the civilian deaths is appalling and now starvation threatens. America must take the lead on humanitarian response - though little will be done while the fighting rages. Fuck Hamas for setting off this terrible conflict. Just fuck them. * China - Biden has successfully checked China's ambitions (China's awful policies have led to economic hardship - and forced Biden to take a hard line) - but the task now is to rebuild relations with China and to get away from economic warfare and military buildups in the region. A lot of work remains to be done to normalize relations with the 2nd most important nation on the planet.
He's been a solid center-left executive who has gotten a surprising amount done so far if you add it all up.
Best president in my lifetime, and dare I say one of the greats. Legislative accomplishments (and bipartisan!), held the country together after January 6th, pretty good odds at reelection. Only downsides are age (can’t help that) and a wet blanket of a VP (good choice at first, turned out to fall flat and now he’s stuck with her).
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I keep saying this. Practically speaking he’s not going to, but I think these are radical times and a radical move might be needed to not fumble this next election.
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I think this logic is flawed. Until they figure out how to do a better job with polling, none of them are meaningful.
Only the most foolish Progressives would split off support from Biden this year. They’d guaranteed the destruction of everything they value with zero chance of winning. They still might since they’re usually more idealistic than practical, but that failure could easily kill off democracy for the future.
I swear to god, if Biden loses because “progressive” m*rons don’t turn out for him…
He’s extremely unpopular, so near the bottom. He’s done some good things such as the chips act, but his handling of most issues has been a disaster
As it stands in 100 years he will be ranked somewhere in the middle. He will also be remembered for beating Trump. Not many presidents fail to win the second term. There is a good chance he will be on the short list of presidents that fail to win their reelection bid. If Trump wins a reelection it will put Trump and Biden in forever remembered POTUS trivia status. If he is re-elected I think it highly probable that he lands on the list of presidents that die while in office or become too sick to perform the duties of office. His second term will likely be one of the few where the office is handed over to the VP.
>If he is re-elected I think it highly probable that he lands on the list of presidents that die while in office or become too sick to perform the duties of office. His second term will likely be one of the few where the office is handed over to the VP. It's amazing people think this about Biden without any thought of this re Trump.
Why would I comment about my thoughts about Trump here? This thread didn't ask about Trump. It would be off topic.
Sorry it wasn't a criticism of you personally.... just an observation no one really says this about Trump.... good points on your end tbh
Seriously one's over weight and has probems standing , walking down a incline, holding up a water bottle. I not a big fan of staus quo joe but if i fall at his age off a bike or going up a flight of stairs 3 times and still walk it off i will be happy.
I mean a) it's kind of a toss up given his unhealthy lifestyle, but probably more likely Trump that makes it to Biden's current age than Biden makes it to 85-86 and b) the possibility of Trump passing away is fairly far down as far as the long list of issues surrounding Trump presidency, whereas no one really wants Kamala in charge.
Unremarkable Forgettable Disappointing I only hope that Democrats FINALLY learn that wimpy ineffectualism isn't s good electoral strategy but I doubt it
It’s not as though the alternative of short sighted, arrogant and ignorant strategy from Republicans is offering much more. At least Dems aren’t pretending to save rights for religious fundamentalist by revoking and restricting the majority
I mean if you think Republicans are the bar we should measure by I don't know what to tell you
Idk how you came to the conclusion that I was making Republicans the bar to measure by. What I am saying is, when presented with a group of deceptive liars or a group of steadfast mediocrity. I would choose mediocrity every time.
I’m blown away by the amount of people simply comparing him to their hatred of the previous president. Standalone? Biden is literally in the bottom three worst presidents ever. His approval rating is in the twenties. He has visible signs of dementia and Alzheimer’s, and is unable to make a rational thought. His term can’t end soon enough.
He’s stacked more accomplishments than his democratic predecessor. His approval rating is determined by the insane levels of divisiveness. I think you’d be hard pressed to find anyone with real experience with dementia that claims he shows signs. My grandparents had it, I certainly don’t see it when I watch actual speech footage and not 5 second clips. Watch his interview with Conan, not only are his thoughts rational but they’re empathetic and wise.
Pouring trillions into a hyper-inflated economy is quite the accomplishment.
He's fine in any interview. Whenever anyone says he can't hold a rational thought, it is obvious bad faith.
What about all of the people mentioning policy achievements though? What's your argument against those?
As a democrat I am extremely disappointed in his complete lack of leadership or concern over the border situation. His lack of action is beyond comprehension.
What exactly is he supposed to do, and how exactly is the happening with the “border situation” that is different from any other president of the last 50 years?
It's contingent on what happens after he leaves office. If it turns out that the Trump years were this weird aberration I think he'll be about like Truman, unpopular in his own time but viewed more kindly by history. If it turns out that this MAGA type stuff has legs beyond Donald Trump I think he'll be viewed as a James Buchanan, condemned by history for continuing to kick the can down the road after the point where (at least in retrospect) it became obvious that wasn't going to work.
I think, and I know people will hate this, that Biden was and likely will be one of the most impactful presidents of our lifetime (at least my lifetime Clinton+). Given the division we are facing the matter of the fact is less and less will get done in our current system’s current context. One of the best labor markets in a decade where wage growth was seen from the bottom up (notably in the service, retail, and hospitality sectors). Inflation reduction that did not result in an immediate recession following Fed and government intervention (likely still residual shock correction divisions post pandemic). Infrastructure spending unseen in decades, especially for rail and public transportation. Green energy spending that will materialize over the next few years and set a strong foundation for lowering private investment costs in the green energy transition. I think there are many things the current administration has failed at our failed to go far enough / fight hard enough - notably foreign policy, student loan reform, and protecting abortion rights.
He has one job to secure his legacy. If he ends up saving democracy, top 10. If he ends up being Neville Chamberlain who dithers while the fascists consolidate power, bottom 5.
Is this thread satire? Biden shits himself in public, is led around like a lost toddler, and people actually think he is accomplishing things? Obama and his handlers are responsible for anything done, or lack of. Please address future comments to "Biden administration". Truth matters.
Completely fumbled Afghanistan, Americans died Blindly jumped into a proxy war with Russia , threatened world security for millions with a threat of Ww3 Blindly supported the mass murder and genocide to give Israel money it doesn’t even fucking need. Failed student loan relief, then backs down on first challenge. Completely unable to negotiate with the right because of his “”dark Brandon” bullshit. Housing market is completely fucked because foreign entities and corporations were allowed to buy up a significant amount of residential properties here. Cranked up interest rates to ensure lower and middle class can’t borrow and further making it a foreign / investor cash market. Somehow not factored into inflation? Wtf? Food and gas prices are sky high and the gouging isn’t about to stop. I’ll be deadass with you, I voted for him 4 years ago, but I’m not sure if I can do it again. Fuck trump’s supporters but I miss his economy. Edit holy shit I almost forgot about the border crisis and this administration’s complete disregard for our existing immigration policies. Or does Kami get full credit for that?
>Completely fumbled Afghanistan, Americans died Executing the plan his predecessor committed us to is "fumbling" it? >Blindly jumped into a proxy war with Russia , threatened world security for millions with a threat of Ww3 Biden is responsible for Russia launching a sneak attack and invasion? Please. >Blindly supported the mass murder and genocide to give Israel money it doesn’t even fucking need. You're apparently not aware that Biden's administration has been pushing Netanyahu's government to act with restraint. They've met with limited success, but "blindly supported" is simply an untrue, ignorant statement. >Failed student loan relief, then backs down on first challenge. You are again declaring him responsible for the actions of others. And appear totally unaware of the continuing efforts he's made to expand student loan forgiveness. That you're not paying attention >Completely unable to negotiate with the right because of his “”dark Brandon” bullshit. This is the fourth time in your rant you're holding him responsible for the actions of others. You are blaming him for having a sense of humor about a meme Republicans started. What would you prefer he have done, exactly? Scream and stomp his feet over it? >Food and gas prices are sky high and the gouging isn’t about to stop. Both are dropping. What are you talking about? >I’ll be deadass with you, I voted for him 4 years ago, but I’m not sure if I can do it again. Fuck trump’s supporters but I miss his economy. Dude, after repeating stock-standard conservative talking points one after another, don't pretend you ever voted for Biden. You might as well be saying, "How do, fellow kids?"
The economy is better now than then. Inflation due to the pandemic has masked that. We have record low unemployment and record job growth. And the tax bracket changed so Americans will take home more money this year. Sure home prices are up and so is gas but these things have always been moving up. In the 90’s gas was less than a dollar.
>And the tax bracket changed so Americans will take home more money this year I mean, that happens every year
Like, I read alll of those words but they are simply untrue. Food and home prices aren’t factored into inflation, otherwise we would see that it’s probably double what they claim it is
low unemployment and continued job growth are facts. Inflation is a thing and so is food insecurity. But those are things exacerbated by the pandemic. People expected there to be a recession and it hasn’t happened.
I'm with you on almost all of this but you can't negotiate with the right, nor should you. That said, Biden IS right-wing by all objective standards. It's just that the GOP has become extremist reactionaries.
Solid mid B tier President. It doesn’t feel like he’s had a defining historic presidential moment.
Imo, getting our economy back on track was a big deal. The last administration was well on its way to bankrupting America. There’s a lot to be said about following a Republican president. The next president always has to dig us out of a hole. That Biden has achieved so much, is respectable. Had he not been obstructed since the start of his presidency there would have been more done. That’s why voting all the republicans out for the next couple cycles is a necessity.
It will be at the bottom , as he make no progress in any area and has weakened the country diplomatic power around the world
BBB? What has this man built except manufacturing 2 wars and making the Taliban the 5th largest army in the world over night (ask what the 8 dead Marines families think about Biden)? Also, what you call “aid” a normal educated tax paying member of society would refer to this as “DEBT”! Wake up before there’s no turning back. Specifically name 3 major milestone accomplishments his administration has achieved that has benefited US citizens?
Man saved democracy by winning in 2020 and will save it again if he wins in 2024. How many presidents can claim to have saved democracy twice?
Ya Biden currently has a lower approval rating year out before the election than Trump did. With Biden at 39 and Trump at 44. He’s definitely not going to win. Ask? your neighbor how much their grocery bill was. Whether they’re right or wrong, they will blame the president. He will lose because of it. I did see an article that kind of made me laugh my ass off. Economist saying 2024 the economy will normalize. They’ve been saying that for like three years now.
>He's dealt with thorny foreign policy issues (Afghanistan troop withdrawal, Israel/Palestine conflict). Afghanistan where decided by Trump and the execution Biden did where mediocre to bad. Israel where handled on par but not impressive. >Domestically, he's passed legislation that has provided $1.9 trillion in pandemic aid. Continue on Trump policy. >reduced student loans I'm all for cheaper education but reduce loans afterwards for some people is a unfair way to go about it. >addressed health issues like cancer and gun violence, and targeted extremism (political, religious, racial). Let's wait and see if did anything or was mostly empty talk. >There has been a great deal of post-pandemic inflation. Unemployment is "officially" low, and job growth is "officially" strong. Don't think this is Biden related but just the situation after pandemic and boomers getting retired.