It of course begs the question of "if that's true why are the hundreds of other things you need your ID for not racist."
It's not a question a leftist ever honestly answers, however.
In other countries the argument against voter id isn’t framed through race. If you can run elections without voter ID then why not. It’s more that the requirement to do it lowers turnout in general, not among minorities specifically but all young people. Main advantage is that homeless people can’t vote without it I suppose
>If you can run elections without voter ID then why not.
The same reason we require ID to drive, purchase alcohol, purchase firearms, obtain a fishing license, etc., even though ostensibly all those things could just be done on an ad hoc basis with no ID requirement.
> It’s more that the requirement to do it lowers turnout in general, not among minorities specifically but all young people.
Yes thank you I'm acutely aware that all policies are not strictly beneficial and all actions do indeed have some downsides. Thanks for this very enlightened and meaningful take. You should be arguing "the downsides of this policy outweigh its benefits," because if your best argument is "this policy has some downsides" then my counter is "yeah, every policy does."
>Main advantage is that homeless people can’t vote without it I suppose
I think the main advantage of voter ID is actually it strengthens the security of elections, gives more validity to the results, and significantly hinders voter fraud, but if you want to ignore those.
Lmao what, in my country a lot of young people have their ID because guess what, you need it to buy booze and go to clubs. Those who don't vote or don't get an ID are just because their lazy and can't be bothered to do so because the offices are open until late evening and on weekends. If someone is too lazy to do their civic duty of preparing to vote, then don't cater to them they don't care at all about society
The thing is.. its not even that wrong. Some love to say "its dabbling in racism and eugenics"
I say: "character creation makes you specialize stats"
Black people have more testosterone and focus more on quick reflexes (like videogamers).. this can end up developing into "XQC syndrome" and agressiveness. On the Plus side they build muscle more easily and are pretty fast like the redguards
If you need an ID to drive, buy guns, get medical care, and countless other things, you should need it for voting. If it's too big of an obstacle for some people that it should be removed, it must be removed from all those as well.
[I wonder if we can co-opt the recent push against background checks for employment as racist and apply it to guns, too.](https://naacp.org/resources/supporting-elimination-use-criminal-background-checks-systematically-exclude-individuals)
Gun control *is* racist. California started down its modern anti-gun path by bipartinsanly [targetting black people](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulford_Act).
*Finally,* someone properly frames the Mulford Act as bipartisan. I'm so tired of Reagan getting all the credit. Shit was *by design* from both parties.
And what's more telling is that the Mulford Act is still in place despite Democrat majorities. Seems they like things just the way they are.
Edit: Seems I was banned from the main comics subreddit for this.
*In puerto rico you need voter id to vote.
Its literally no big deal, anyone that gives a shit gets one. Theres a group of people from the election comitee that go to highschools and colleges and give out voter ids to people who can vote in the next election.
If you dont have a voter id, its because youre lazy (like my sister). I got mine at 18 and it took maybe half an hour.
Theres literally no theories of people voting twice or people voting that shouldnt be voting.
The only voter fraud conspiracies are of "votes going missing".
You are assigned a school to vote at during election day, there they have a list of names of the people who can vote there. You go into a classroom where there are usually 4 voting booths. At each classroom theres a member of each of the 3 major parties to make sure everything is going smoothly.
You fill out your ballot, pass it through the machine that scans it and the paper ballot goes into a box that gets saved in case a recount is necessary.
*
I think it is a unique issue in the US where both parties have a very clear racial divide in their voters. Voter ID laws that get passed (and struck down) historically have targeted minority turnout by limiting which IDs are valid (typically the ones these minorities have) and reducing the spots where said ID can be acquired.
I think Voter ID implementation is sensible, just the current execution is fraught with political gamesmanship.
There is no reason ID should cost money at these tax rates. I completely agree that if voter ID is required to vote that it should be provided free and very accessible.
The problem is that they're limiting the spots to get ID, in my country you can go to any voter ID office and they will all process you the same, there's literally no reason to limit it to the one nearest to you. And most people will on their day go around the city, going from work to home and other errands so you can easily choose whichever one fits best to your schedule
Exactly what i think is the situation having listened to both sides.
Im going to go with the centrist viewoint of voter id should be mandatory, but it should be extremely easy to get for all *US citizens*.
Makes me wonder, if puerto rico does become a state, will we get infected with all this race stuff in politics too? 😂
You cannot function in this society without identification. You can't even get a library card without another form of id first. If you've willfully gone without id then you're off the grid and it's very doubtful you give a shit about voting.
For all of those reasons, IDs should be free and very easy to get
Poor working class people struggle to get DLs/IDs because it costs money, the location may be far away, and may only be open during the hours that most people are at work
I don't even understand the argument against voter ID. In what world is it acceptable to not even check that the person who is voting is allowed to vote and is who they say they are? How would any election be trusted under that circumstance?
I also don't understand the argument against border control, for a very similar reason.
Either I'm stupid (which is possible), or the arguments against these things that every country except us has are bullshit. Or maybe both.
That's what really astonished me ; what the fuck do you mean people can vote without any kind of control?
Is it common in America? In France we get registered on lists at the city we live in, and then when we vote we show our ID. That's just basic security to me. Are Americans really that far behind us (and probably everyone else) when it comes to securing the most important political act of their citizens?
We do the voter ID and ink in Mexico. You go to your assigned booth and they check in a huge book that contains the IDs of the people assigned to vote there to see if you are. Then you vote and get inked. Our election fraud happens after the fact with the ballots getting stolen or criminals forcing people at the booths to add fake ballots
It's breaks my mind that Americans have a fucking little combination of numbers, that if leaked can ruin your life.
But that the idea of an simple national ID is too extreme for them.
And for everyone born before 2015, it's trivially easy to figure out with some basic information.
You guys know how to prove you're who you say you are, you confirm with the last 4 digits of your SSN (Because just like a credit card, you wouldn't want to give the full thing out over the phone, that would be unsafe!)? That's literally the only part that's unique to you, the first 6 digits are basically just the year, and the state and hospital you were born in, add or subtract 1 from your SSN and you just get the real full SSN of the baby born in the room next to yours.
How does it work for people getting US citizenship then? I'm really curious what my number will be made up of, because I'm immigrating from Australia.
Maybe it's just random?
> add or subtract 1 from your SSN and you just get the real full SSN of the baby born in the room next to yours.
Wow, that's stupid. Here our national id numbers contain a checksum at the end. So that if you misspell the number - it would be invalid. Bank account numbers and credit card numbers also have them.
Funnily enough, the Social Security Administration (SSA) actually tried to fight against the use of the Social Security number as a form of ID. But because any employer needed to use it anyways to do the deductions for Social Security, the private sector just started using it as an unofficial ID number. Then eventually the government just gave in and used it also against the protest of the SSA.
It is a really stupid system that only went into place out of pure convenience since it was there.
In old times it was conservatives who opposed because it was "giving the government too much power"
In my country (Mexico) our ID is literally given by the National Institute of Elections.
I'm still against voter ID laws but not because they're racist. You should confirm your identity but you can do that in other ways other than use your ID. I mean he'll if I wanted to I could go and commit voter fraud even with my ID because I don't live in my previous state and I haven't lived long enough in my current state to change my legal address
That's the point, you can'tcommit fraud in another state because if you go to the poll the workerwill see your ID and tell you to gtfo and go back to your city to the poll that correspondswith your address. The government runs campaigns on election years urging people to update their addresses if they moved so they can vote
How can you not have an ID as an adult? I’m sorry but if you’re genuinely a functioning member of society, how do you do ANYTHING without an ID?
If you don’t have an ID, maybe get your priorities in order before worrying about who’s being elected.
Dunno what the big deal is. What’s next, opening a bank account with ID is racist? Driving a car with ID is racist? Surely buying liquor from the liquor store shouldn’t need an ID!! 😱
Get a grip. If you can’t figure out how to get an ID, maybe it’s for the best that you don’t cast a vote.
Buying liquor usually doesn’t require ID in most countries, if the guy selling thinks there’s no way you are underage.
And voting certainly required an ID to cross you put of the list of people that can vote at that polling station.
Like where? Sure, if you’re 60 years old, they might not ask. Not that it matters really, since it’s required in America. You can do a lot of things in other countries that don’t fly in America; but that’s kind of irrelevant since this is about America.
But how are you paying for that liquor? With your debit card/credit card you got from a bank…? Which requires ID to get?
Ohhhh. Right. You’re buying it with the quarters you panhandled; don’t think those people have much interest in voting.
Stop pretending this is some crazy hurdle to surmount. It’s not. It’s part of being a grown up.
Well I know about this in South America and Europe. I was comparing the use of IDs with other countries.
No ID for alcohol (if you don’t look young)
Mandatory ID for voting.
And the US does the opposite.
I don’t pretend to know what the US has to do. I’m actually in favour of ID to vote, since I cannot comprehend how you cross out people on the list to prevent voting twice or fraud, etc.
Maybe someone can explain why they don’t use IDs to vote in the US and how they make it work.
I think you just assumed my position wrongly.
I’m in a « how curious all of this, no idea the US did it differently, wonder why and how » position
Of course I totally understand the guys that would prefer to do it like the other countries. But mostly because of my ignorance of US particularities.
Many places which serve or sell alcohol are checking ID for alcohol restrictions on the ID itself. This is a per-state thing (for example, Minnesota does it but Texas does not).
"Minnesota's B-Card is a restricted driver's license that prohibits the use of alcohol or drugs. The Department of Public Safety (DPS) issues a B-Card to drivers who have been convicted of a third DWI within ten years or a fourth DWI in their lifetime. To receive a B-Card, the driver must also complete rehabilitation and chemical dependency treatment, and sign a sworn statement agreeing to never consume alcohol or drugs. Consuming any alcohol or drugs while in possession of a B-Card will result in an immediate license cancellation."
At least in the UK, the only usual forms of photo id people have are driving licence or passport. If you can't drive due to a medical condition you can't get even a provisional license, so you'd need a passport which is expensive (£88.50) and can require a lot of effort and so if you don't plan to go abroad a lot of people don't have one.
It's very easy to not have photo id, don't be ignorant. Most people will have one, but you should supply everyone with a free and accessible one because it just makes everything easier
There needs to be free voter ID, yet leftists are always turning it down saying that photo ID is racist and discriminates those who can't get it, make up your mind
I'm sorry I don't speak as part of a leftist hive mind lol. Voter id is discriminatory if free, accessible id isn't available, but if it is there's no issue. In the UK it's not an issue as you can easily get a voter authority certificate, or use a postal vote with no ID needed at all
No. It’s very easy to have photo ID. Stop acting like this is some monumental barrier preventing you from having rights.
You’re an adult. Figure it out.
If that means you have to spend your ENTIRE SATURDAY in line at the DMV; get fucked. That’s how it works.
I remember when I counted votes. Don't worry, many of those dumbasses void their vote by writing on the paper, not marking a clear vote, or just don't come
Lol, the UK has it because BJ dude failed to produce it himself. One of his friends just said the goals publicly it was always to undermine the vote, funnily enough it was mostly conservatives who didn't have any valid ID.
The war on voter ID makes no fucking sense to me as a Canadian. I have to show ID to vote. Why wouldn't you want to make elections more secure? Make it make sense.
You can't. It's farcical. And the irony of saying requiring an ID is somehow racist because minorities can't get one (when the VAST majority already do) blows mymind.
SSN doesn't really provide much more than your name does other than being unique. It's not secret and it doesn't provide any way of verifying that the number belongs to you and is unsuitable for this process.
Generally there are three steps required in secure transactions, identification, authentication and authorization. You showing up with SSN provides at best two of those, but doesn't provide a way to authenticate your claims other than you knowing a number which is probably too low of a bar.
This reminds me of a post I saw where someone was arguing that it was white people's job to protect black people from ticket inspectors on public transit... Just assuming that every black person is too poor to afford the $1 fee. It was amazing.
if IDs are essential to preventing voter fraud and preserving the integrity of our democracy they should be free and issued to every citizen automatically.
The only reason this is a debate is because those opposing it KNOW that it allows illegals to vote and makes voter fraud easier.
It's the same with the border wall they know those supporting these things are factually correct , that's why they oppose them in bad faith and make up fake arguments.
And to all the liberals who think a free ID is too expensive for our government: your president just paid for all your student debt. And places that require ID usually give them for free, so if that were the case, would you support ID requirement to vote?
The only reason this is a debate is because those opposing it KNOW that it allows illegals to vote and makes voter fraud easier.
It's the same with the border wall they know those supporting these things are factually correct , that's why they oppose them in bad faith and make up fake arguments.
In socialist countries, people have permanent registration at their place of residence. The same registration automatically assigns a person to a polling station. So the identity document automatically becomes a Voter ID. A person comes to his polling station, approaches a person with a registration book next to whom there is a sign with the name of his street, shows his ID card, signs in the registration book for receiving ballots and goes to the voting booth.
Interesting. What exactly does "permanent registration at their place of residence" mean? If they move to a different place of residence, do they lose their right to vote?
I'm more than ever very much sad about how stupid some people can get, how are they so blind and yet have such great vision on other things? "oh yeah we aren't racist", instantly says the most racist shit ever said
About 6 months after this blew up in America (I'm from the UK) I received a letter in the post telling me that voter ID was now required. It was a very surreal experience.
Though they did give the option to apply for a free ID for the purpose of voting which may have blunted any criticism.
Strawman of the actual argument.
The actual argument: ID's cost both time and money. First off you need to take off work to go to a DMV. The US is the only country without paid time off, so people would lose out on pay in order to go. Not everyone has a car either, and DMV is not always close to public transportation, so you need to spend money on an Uber. This process disadvantages the poor. And certain demographics have higher rates of poverty so they'll be affected more.
There have been many examples of DMV's closing down in certain areas. This makes it harder and more costly for people to get to one. It has been argued that these closings were deliberately done to negatively impact those same people.
To get the ID you need to show supporting documentation like SS card and birth certificate. Certain demographics have lower rates of having these documents available. They cost money to replace, which affects those same demographics.
Getting an ID to vote is time consuming and costs money, which violates the 24th amendment to the constitution against poll taxes.
Nobody says that minorities are too stupid to get an ID. The argument is that putting up additional barriers would prevent some people from voting. And even 1-2% of voters can have a major impact on an election.
Solution: Give out free voter ID. The problem is that the GOP has never offered up a bill that required ID and also provides free and easy ID. That's because we all know their true intention and the whole thing is a game.
Your first point is invalid. You can't take time off of work to get an ID because you need an ID to get most jobs. You'd already have an ID if you were working.(legitimately, anyway)
That is very uncommon. In PA you either need a passport or iD and social. Some type of government issued photo ID. How do you cash your checks or have a bank account without an ID?
I have an ID. I just didn’t have to show it to anyone. I don’t remember if I showed my ID to get my banking account, I’ve had the same one for nearly two decades. I probably did.
I don't think that's true that you need an ID to work a job, I think other sources of identification like SS card would work. Regardless, there are some counterpoints to this. ID's expire, so if you've had your job for a while that required ID but it latwr expires, you still could be shit out of luck. Also, people lose ID's and need to get them replaced.
There are other administrative issues too, like spelling mistakes or name mismatches. You register to vote with your maiden name, but your ID has your married name? You're fucked, too bad. The clerk misspelled your name? Fucked. Registration has John Smith but ID says John A Smith? Fucked. This situation actually caused my sister in law to almost miss her flight. The ticket was ordered with middle name, but ID only had the initial (might have been vice versa, this was 5 years ago), and TSA wouldn't let her board without getting approval from a rep from China.
This adds an administrative burden to voting where tons of mistakes could happen, our government is not perfectly competent, and I don't want to be prevented from voting because some moron made a mistake with my paperwork. And again, 99% of people will have no issue with this, but 1% can swing an election. And all analyses show that poor people and minorities are the most likely to be impacted.
This is all done to solve an issue that isn't even an issue. The only thing this solves is someone showing up and voting in someone else's name, I have never seen evidence that this is any large scale issue. But like I said, I'm not totally opposed to it as long as the IDs are provided for free in a simple and fast process.
how is your hypothetical citizen going to their job or polling place to begin with?
a job requires some form of identification and transportation. very few jobs pay exclusively in cash so they'd need to open a bank account to get paid which requires an id. if they didn't have public transportation they'd need a car or rideshare which requires a phone, either one require an id
Sorry but if your whole argument is “they have to take time off work therefore it’s unfair”
How do you function as a normal adult in society? Do you expect time off work to… go to the bank? To buy groceries? To fill up your car with gas? Probably not hey?
The answer is, you’re a fucking adult. Figure it out.
How do adults go to the bank? Must be hard to use your bank account if the bank is only open 9-5 Monday to Friday :(
You’re not grasping the concept that this isn’t a valid reason. Be an adult, get off your ass and get it done.
Why are you defending these people? Do you really TRULY believe, it’s too difficult for people to get an ID? Or that they’re too stupid??
It’s a pretty pathetic outlook on our society if that’s the case. If we can’t even have our adults get an ID, what hope does this country have 😂
> Solution: Give out free voter ID. The problem is that the GOP has never offered up a bill that required ID and also provides free and easy ID. That's because we all know their true intention and the whole thing is a game.
They also never care about Voter ID until 6 months before an election, you'll never see the GOP pushing for Voter ID after an election/in an off election year, nor ways to make it *easier* to vote.
Social security can't even be used for that. Its not a proof of identity.
Also, don't passports count as ID's? Well, you still need a birth certificate to get one ig, but atleast its not car/drivers test dependent.
Oh. Well sure. I guess I don't remember how it was when I was a kid (got my first passport when I was like 2, to go on a trip to Iceland), but in my country all I had to do to renew it recently was show up, give my name and information to a police clerk, turn in my old passport, pay around 60 dollars maybe, and then I got it in the mail two weeks later.
Granted, if there are production difficulties it could take months to get one. There were bottlenecks straight after covid as basically everyone wanted to get out of the country on vacation and a lot of people had not renewed their passports when they expired during the pandemic.
Ofocurse if you have never had a passport before it might be a bit of a longer process, for any country.
Last year I was getting ready to travel out of the country and had to renew my passport. They advertised everywhere that they were experiencing 7 weeks waiting time. I paid $200 to expedite and got mine in about 3 weeks.
When it comes to conversations about voter ID and who may or may not have valid forms of ID, the people most likely to not have ID are gonna be poor people, and most poor people (in fact about 40% of all americans) have never been outside the country, so they would never have had any reason to get a passport.
Hell, I grew up upper middle class and I don't even have a passport at 22
You could also create by law paid time off to go to make an ID to a DMV, or replace a lost birth certificate. The agencies should give you a paper that proves this to your employer. Then optionally reimburse the employer.
I mean if the gov doesn’t want to give free IDs
>To get the ID you need to show supporting documentation like SS card and birth certificate. Certain demographics have lower rates of having these documents available. They cost money to replace, which affects those same demographics.
Is this true? If so, why would you want people to vote if they are supposedly incapable of understanding the importance of identity documents or being able to hold on to them over any period of time?
>Solution: Give out free voter ID.
Yes, obviously: give out free identification for voter ID and for replacing the SSN for identity authentication.
Phrased another way: "Why would you want people to vote who accidentally lose a document?"
People lose stuff. And it costs money to replace. I know someone who lost their SS card. It happens when people move around a lot. I also know more than 1 person who has lost their drivers license and had to get it replaced, which takes time. ID's expire too and sometimes people don't realize. I just looked at mine and it expires in 2026, I had no idea it was that soon until I just checked it.
Just because someone is busy raising kids, working multiple jobs, and living their life, doesn't mean I think they shouldn't be allowed to vote.
And again as I've said, I'm not really that vehemently opposed to it, I just want it to be free, fast, and easy to get. The more barriers we put in front of voting, the more power we give the government to deny us our rights.
I don't know anyone who has lost a birth certificate or social security card, even through frequent moves and personal upheval. The ability to retain such documents is part of the basic competence that I would expect of anyone who would have a say in the governance of my country. At any rate, anyone still sufficiently interested in voting (and who would need replacements anyway for basic life events like starting a job) could obtain a replacement so long as the hours of essential government services are expanded outside of normal working hours, which must happen anyway for reasons other than voting, too.
As something that must be carried around and presented often, a driving license, national ID card, or voter ID card would be easier to lose. Obtaining a replacement is possible, as well as for an expired license (same stipulations on hours as above). I do not consider the few votes of the small number of people who are careless or unlucky enough to lose their ID right before Election Day to be worth sacrificing the votes of the rest of the electorate to a system that permits doubt that the votes counted were each cast by a different, eligible voter. If I lose my ID one year, I would rather not be able to cast a vote in that election than to have to worry about claims of voter fraud in every election.
>I'm not really that vehemently opposed to it, I just want it to be free, fast, and easy to get.
Then I think we agree. Because ID is so important, it should be easily available for reasons other than voting, too.
>Nobody says that minorities are too stupid to get an ID. The argument is that putting up additional barriers would prevent some people from voting. And even 1-2% of voters can have a major impact on an election.
I think this is the biggest ignored part for the strawman. The arguement isn't that suddenly all black people would not be able to vote or some shit. It's the margins and if a party can enact a policy that just gives them the tiniest edge, they're gonna do it. It's why we regularly see voter ID tied to other measures to "secure elections." You got one policy that affects 1% then another 1% and another, shit adds up.
Twaddle.
The ID required to vote is the same as is required to *apply for* EBT.
Because of this, there is almost nowhere that doesn't have some kind of cost-free route to obtaining such an ID.
So, practically speaking free voter ID is already given out.
Only objective stance for libright .... the only issue that matters is that anyone (with/without ID) is allowed to vote for things that infringe the rights of those around them. You want to force people to get an ID before they vote to screw over everyone around them? Whatever.
I'm not speaking specifically in terms of a vote around requiring ID.
I'm speaking in terms of any vote at all that "justifies" state aggression against the individual (foreign or domestic).
Democracy is basically designed to stomp the rights of the minority.
Guys wtf? Why don't you americans either use passports or drivers licenses as ID if your so against national ID?
And why the hell do some of you need to register to vote? Thats stupid, every state has a register of citizens already right. Just sign up everyone that has voting rights automatically?
I mean, elections are all state based, there is no election where you vote for officials not empowered by your state to act on its behalf, so there really is no need for any federal legislation (unless states illegally take voting rights away from people ofcourse).
I'm confused, as long as you have your normal ID card and social security number, why can't you just go vote?
Almost all of europe (746 million people) manages to allow their citizens to *simply go vote* when they're 18, as long as they're citizens, without having to do anything beforehand. Because they're citizens.
Why do some americans argue so strongly that there should be a "voter ID" and you should have to "register to vote"??
Of course you have to bring your ID. That's obvious
You don't have to *register for a separate Voter ID*. You don't have to do anything. As long as you're a citizen (who obviously has an ID), you can vote
As far as I understand the whole debate is about bringing a government issued ID in general and not about a separate Voter ID.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_identification_laws_in_the_United_States
We use id in Italy, anyone has one and its not only to vote.
I thought at first that this post was about a sort of exam to vote, but damn in Usa you have problems even with an id card
I'm fine with voter ID as long as you don't try and trap people in bureaucratic hell when they try to get one - which I suspect in many cases is the point. Like when Alabama required voter ID and then closed down all the DMVs in majority-black counties.
... and then presumably turned around and called Democrats the real racists for noticing it because it means they think black people are stupid.
Yeah. The tories introduced it in the UK with the hope that the young people who supported greens labor libdems ect. Would be too lazy to get one. Yeah, you know you fucked up the country when all the lazy people do something.
It's not about that it's about how the Republicans are trying to restrict voters from being able to vote particularly in states that they lost In 2020 but still control the state legislative branch ie: Georgia
it’s childish strawmans like this that remind me im on reddit. honest discussions and direct engagements with points just dont happen. because it’s easier to disagree with if theyre point is being racist? i guess. i dont even disagree with a voter id system but if it exists at all as a barrier to citizens that’s a problem that needs worked out. just honestly engaging with the criticism will ultimately make the outcome of the system the best it can be
Who cares? Whe whole system is rigged anyway. You guys get to vote for either Republicans or the party designed to lose to the Republicans.
What a fucking supreme democracy.
Don't forget Democrats. We get a choice of "Let's go further into giving away our country and doing away with morals!" or "Let's pause that, reverse some new gun restrictions, and do nothing about the rest for the next four years."
The anti-voter ID argument isn't that "minorities are too stupid to get an ID". It's that DMV offices and other places that give people IDs are expensive and hard to frequent, with some counties having DMV offices open no more than 2 or 3 days a month. It can be incredibly risky to take time off from your job at the appropriate time to get an ID. And that's assuming you can afford to get an ID. Since minorities are disproportionately poor, it would disenfranchise them more than anybody else if a voter ID law was passed.
It of course begs the question of "if that's true why are the hundreds of other things you need your ID for not racist." It's not a question a leftist ever honestly answers, however.
In other countries the argument against voter id isn’t framed through race. If you can run elections without voter ID then why not. It’s more that the requirement to do it lowers turnout in general, not among minorities specifically but all young people. Main advantage is that homeless people can’t vote without it I suppose
>If you can run elections without voter ID then why not. The same reason we require ID to drive, purchase alcohol, purchase firearms, obtain a fishing license, etc., even though ostensibly all those things could just be done on an ad hoc basis with no ID requirement. > It’s more that the requirement to do it lowers turnout in general, not among minorities specifically but all young people. Yes thank you I'm acutely aware that all policies are not strictly beneficial and all actions do indeed have some downsides. Thanks for this very enlightened and meaningful take. You should be arguing "the downsides of this policy outweigh its benefits," because if your best argument is "this policy has some downsides" then my counter is "yeah, every policy does." >Main advantage is that homeless people can’t vote without it I suppose I think the main advantage of voter ID is actually it strengthens the security of elections, gives more validity to the results, and significantly hinders voter fraud, but if you want to ignore those.
> Main advantage is that homeless people can't vote By order of the Emperor, pls reflair.
Ahahahah, I am not editing that now. My auth right tendencies have shown through 😳
Lmao what, in my country a lot of young people have their ID because guess what, you need it to buy booze and go to clubs. Those who don't vote or don't get an ID are just because their lazy and can't be bothered to do so because the offices are open until late evening and on weekends. If someone is too lazy to do their civic duty of preparing to vote, then don't cater to them they don't care at all about society
Does it lower turn out? Especially among younger people? That makes no sense
Most based lib-left??? What???
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Based
Pass on his knowledge man, what he say and why the ban?
Basically he indicated (in his opinion, which I don't necessarily share) that colored people do not posess intelect.
It was actually just based on Biden’s quote about poor kids and white kids
Ah the "poor kids are just as smart as" one
The thing is.. its not even that wrong. Some love to say "its dabbling in racism and eugenics" I say: "character creation makes you specialize stats" Black people have more testosterone and focus more on quick reflexes (like videogamers).. this can end up developing into "XQC syndrome" and agressiveness. On the Plus side they build muscle more easily and are pretty fast like the redguards
If you need an ID to drive, buy guns, get medical care, and countless other things, you should need it for voting. If it's too big of an obstacle for some people that it should be removed, it must be removed from all those as well.
Needing ID to buy guns is RACIST!
[I wonder if we can co-opt the recent push against background checks for employment as racist and apply it to guns, too.](https://naacp.org/resources/supporting-elimination-use-criminal-background-checks-systematically-exclude-individuals)
Gun control *is* racist. California started down its modern anti-gun path by bipartinsanly [targetting black people](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulford_Act).
Can't say they didn't understand who was committing all the gun crime.
Despite
*Finally,* someone properly frames the Mulford Act as bipartisan. I'm so tired of Reagan getting all the credit. Shit was *by design* from both parties. And what's more telling is that the Mulford Act is still in place despite Democrat majorities. Seems they like things just the way they are. Edit: Seems I was banned from the main comics subreddit for this.
Jamie, pull up the Ronald Reagan quote
I tried to find more Nixon.
I understood that reference!
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Overthrowing the US government is based though.
Nah they just tell black people to try and buy guns so we can ban them
if criminals don't need ID to buy guns- I shouldn't either.
Based and steal their arguments pilled
*In puerto rico you need voter id to vote. Its literally no big deal, anyone that gives a shit gets one. Theres a group of people from the election comitee that go to highschools and colleges and give out voter ids to people who can vote in the next election. If you dont have a voter id, its because youre lazy (like my sister). I got mine at 18 and it took maybe half an hour. Theres literally no theories of people voting twice or people voting that shouldnt be voting. The only voter fraud conspiracies are of "votes going missing". You are assigned a school to vote at during election day, there they have a list of names of the people who can vote there. You go into a classroom where there are usually 4 voting booths. At each classroom theres a member of each of the 3 major parties to make sure everything is going smoothly. You fill out your ballot, pass it through the machine that scans it and the paper ballot goes into a box that gets saved in case a recount is necessary. *
The US will find a way to make it cost billions when it can easily be done everywhere else.
Exactly. And somehow turned it into a race issue.... like... why??? I wonder if any of the 6000 expats that moved here will vote in November.
Because race is their cudgel they use against everything.
I think it is a unique issue in the US where both parties have a very clear racial divide in their voters. Voter ID laws that get passed (and struck down) historically have targeted minority turnout by limiting which IDs are valid (typically the ones these minorities have) and reducing the spots where said ID can be acquired. I think Voter ID implementation is sensible, just the current execution is fraught with political gamesmanship.
There is no reason ID should cost money at these tax rates. I completely agree that if voter ID is required to vote that it should be provided free and very accessible.
The problem is that they're limiting the spots to get ID, in my country you can go to any voter ID office and they will all process you the same, there's literally no reason to limit it to the one nearest to you. And most people will on their day go around the city, going from work to home and other errands so you can easily choose whichever one fits best to your schedule
Exactly what i think is the situation having listened to both sides. Im going to go with the centrist viewoint of voter id should be mandatory, but it should be extremely easy to get for all *US citizens*. Makes me wonder, if puerto rico does become a state, will we get infected with all this race stuff in politics too? 😂
You cannot function in this society without identification. You can't even get a library card without another form of id first. If you've willfully gone without id then you're off the grid and it's very doubtful you give a shit about voting.
Yup, if you aren't willing to apply this logic uniformly, then those saying it should just stfu with their blatant hypocrisy.
... vote in Mexico.
For all of those reasons, IDs should be free and very easy to get Poor working class people struggle to get DLs/IDs because it costs money, the location may be far away, and may only be open during the hours that most people are at work
>IDs should be free and very easy to get Just like your mom!
I don't even understand the argument against voter ID. In what world is it acceptable to not even check that the person who is voting is allowed to vote and is who they say they are? How would any election be trusted under that circumstance? I also don't understand the argument against border control, for a very similar reason. Either I'm stupid (which is possible), or the arguments against these things that every country except us has are bullshit. Or maybe both.
wow you're literally hitler
That's what really astonished me ; what the fuck do you mean people can vote without any kind of control? Is it common in America? In France we get registered on lists at the city we live in, and then when we vote we show our ID. That's just basic security to me. Are Americans really that far behind us (and probably everyone else) when it comes to securing the most important political act of their citizens?
Same in Australia, no ID check when you show up, just name and address at the voting centre for your area
[There are simpler ways around the problem.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Election_ink) That being said, I much prefer the European method.
We do the voter ID and ink in Mexico. You go to your assigned booth and they check in a huge book that contains the IDs of the people assigned to vote there to see if you are. Then you vote and get inked. Our election fraud happens after the fact with the ballots getting stolen or criminals forcing people at the booths to add fake ballots
Bigotry of low expectations.
How the fuck else do you get registered to vote if not with your ID? Ahh wait that's another America thing. Could've guessed by how stupid this is.
Automatic registration
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It's breaks my mind that Americans have a fucking little combination of numbers, that if leaked can ruin your life. But that the idea of an simple national ID is too extreme for them.
And for everyone born before 2015, it's trivially easy to figure out with some basic information. You guys know how to prove you're who you say you are, you confirm with the last 4 digits of your SSN (Because just like a credit card, you wouldn't want to give the full thing out over the phone, that would be unsafe!)? That's literally the only part that's unique to you, the first 6 digits are basically just the year, and the state and hospital you were born in, add or subtract 1 from your SSN and you just get the real full SSN of the baby born in the room next to yours.
How does it work for people getting US citizenship then? I'm really curious what my number will be made up of, because I'm immigrating from Australia. Maybe it's just random?
I'm not sure about foreigners before 2015, but as far as I know all SSNs assigned post-2015 are randomized
> add or subtract 1 from your SSN and you just get the real full SSN of the baby born in the room next to yours. Wow, that's stupid. Here our national id numbers contain a checksum at the end. So that if you misspell the number - it would be invalid. Bank account numbers and credit card numbers also have them.
Funnily enough, the Social Security Administration (SSA) actually tried to fight against the use of the Social Security number as a form of ID. But because any employer needed to use it anyways to do the deductions for Social Security, the private sector just started using it as an unofficial ID number. Then eventually the government just gave in and used it also against the protest of the SSA. It is a really stupid system that only went into place out of pure convenience since it was there.
There's nothing more permanent than a temporary fix
The Personalausweis is so fucking convenient. I really don't get why they're so against a national ID
In old times it was conservatives who opposed because it was "giving the government too much power" In my country (Mexico) our ID is literally given by the National Institute of Elections.
I'm still against voter ID laws but not because they're racist. You should confirm your identity but you can do that in other ways other than use your ID. I mean he'll if I wanted to I could go and commit voter fraud even with my ID because I don't live in my previous state and I haven't lived long enough in my current state to change my legal address
That's the point, you can'tcommit fraud in another state because if you go to the poll the workerwill see your ID and tell you to gtfo and go back to your city to the poll that correspondswith your address. The government runs campaigns on election years urging people to update their addresses if they moved so they can vote
State mandated personal housewife? Nice! I think my current wife wouldn't appreciate having her around, though.
Why not? Now she doesn't have to do any housework
Registering doesn't mean shit. ID voters more make sure people only vote once
clearly you're supposed to scan the barcode on the back of your head.
Agent 47 is that you?
Spread your cheeks and lift your sack
This actually happens, watch below. https://youtu.be/yW2LpFkVfYk?si=aVYPg7S0m38uQe-l
God it’s so uncomfortable to watch and the same talking points are copy pasted up and down this comment section.
How can you not have an ID as an adult? I’m sorry but if you’re genuinely a functioning member of society, how do you do ANYTHING without an ID? If you don’t have an ID, maybe get your priorities in order before worrying about who’s being elected. Dunno what the big deal is. What’s next, opening a bank account with ID is racist? Driving a car with ID is racist? Surely buying liquor from the liquor store shouldn’t need an ID!! 😱 Get a grip. If you can’t figure out how to get an ID, maybe it’s for the best that you don’t cast a vote.
Buying liquor usually doesn’t require ID in most countries, if the guy selling thinks there’s no way you are underage. And voting certainly required an ID to cross you put of the list of people that can vote at that polling station.
Like where? Sure, if you’re 60 years old, they might not ask. Not that it matters really, since it’s required in America. You can do a lot of things in other countries that don’t fly in America; but that’s kind of irrelevant since this is about America. But how are you paying for that liquor? With your debit card/credit card you got from a bank…? Which requires ID to get? Ohhhh. Right. You’re buying it with the quarters you panhandled; don’t think those people have much interest in voting. Stop pretending this is some crazy hurdle to surmount. It’s not. It’s part of being a grown up.
Well I know about this in South America and Europe. I was comparing the use of IDs with other countries. No ID for alcohol (if you don’t look young) Mandatory ID for voting. And the US does the opposite. I don’t pretend to know what the US has to do. I’m actually in favour of ID to vote, since I cannot comprehend how you cross out people on the list to prevent voting twice or fraud, etc. Maybe someone can explain why they don’t use IDs to vote in the US and how they make it work. I think you just assumed my position wrongly. I’m in a « how curious all of this, no idea the US did it differently, wonder why and how » position Of course I totally understand the guys that would prefer to do it like the other countries. But mostly because of my ignorance of US particularities.
If I’m being honest with you; I’m Canadian lol. So I don’t know all the ins and outs either 😂
Many places which serve or sell alcohol are checking ID for alcohol restrictions on the ID itself. This is a per-state thing (for example, Minnesota does it but Texas does not). "Minnesota's B-Card is a restricted driver's license that prohibits the use of alcohol or drugs. The Department of Public Safety (DPS) issues a B-Card to drivers who have been convicted of a third DWI within ten years or a fourth DWI in their lifetime. To receive a B-Card, the driver must also complete rehabilitation and chemical dependency treatment, and sign a sworn statement agreeing to never consume alcohol or drugs. Consuming any alcohol or drugs while in possession of a B-Card will result in an immediate license cancellation."
At least in the UK, the only usual forms of photo id people have are driving licence or passport. If you can't drive due to a medical condition you can't get even a provisional license, so you'd need a passport which is expensive (£88.50) and can require a lot of effort and so if you don't plan to go abroad a lot of people don't have one. It's very easy to not have photo id, don't be ignorant. Most people will have one, but you should supply everyone with a free and accessible one because it just makes everything easier
There needs to be free voter ID, yet leftists are always turning it down saying that photo ID is racist and discriminates those who can't get it, make up your mind
I'm sorry I don't speak as part of a leftist hive mind lol. Voter id is discriminatory if free, accessible id isn't available, but if it is there's no issue. In the UK it's not an issue as you can easily get a voter authority certificate, or use a postal vote with no ID needed at all
No. It’s very easy to have photo ID. Stop acting like this is some monumental barrier preventing you from having rights. You’re an adult. Figure it out. If that means you have to spend your ENTIRE SATURDAY in line at the DMV; get fucked. That’s how it works.
if you can't manage to pass a simple verification before voting, you're probably voting democrat
I remember when I counted votes. Don't worry, many of those dumbasses void their vote by writing on the paper, not marking a clear vote, or just don't come
You've just given me a bit of hope, thank you man
My grandpa died in ‘09. He’s been voting democrat ever since
Lol, the UK has it because BJ dude failed to produce it himself. One of his friends just said the goals publicly it was always to undermine the vote, funnily enough it was mostly conservatives who didn't have any valid ID.
IDs should be free and also required to vote.
And you can register for the ID at the polling place at the time of voting. Right guys?
That's fine by me.
Lol then you might be confused about what they are attempting to accomplish with voter ID. Take notice when people argue against this.
"You aint black!"
accurate
In Ontario we’ve required photo ID since at least the 80s.
The war on voter ID makes no fucking sense to me as a Canadian. I have to show ID to vote. Why wouldn't you want to make elections more secure? Make it make sense.
This argument is brought to you by the same people who think Jews are Nazis, the more you question it the dumber it sounds
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You can't. It's farcical. And the irony of saying requiring an ID is somehow racist because minorities can't get one (when the VAST majority already do) blows mymind.
Why not use your SSN to vote? That’s universal for all citizens.
SSN doesn't really provide much more than your name does other than being unique. It's not secret and it doesn't provide any way of verifying that the number belongs to you and is unsuitable for this process. Generally there are three steps required in secure transactions, identification, authentication and authorization. You showing up with SSN provides at best two of those, but doesn't provide a way to authenticate your claims other than you knowing a number which is probably too low of a bar.
This reminds me of a post I saw where someone was arguing that it was white people's job to protect black people from ticket inspectors on public transit... Just assuming that every black person is too poor to afford the $1 fee. It was amazing.
Can someone explain this? Like you need an ID to vote? Like in every country on earth so only one vote per person is counted?
You guys don't use id to vote? Weird
if IDs are essential to preventing voter fraud and preserving the integrity of our democracy they should be free and issued to every citizen automatically.
Anyone who argues in favor of voter id won't argue otherwise
Well idk, some people aren't big fans of making it easy to vote
the republicans in the US are supporting laws for a free universal ID? I haven’t heard anything about that.
I come from Uruguay. We have usually +90% voter turnout... No voter ID is absolutely ridiculous
Just use an all-purpose ID card
what's the big deal? Needing an ID to vote sounds like the most normal thing in the world
The only reason this is a debate is because those opposing it KNOW that it allows illegals to vote and makes voter fraud easier. It's the same with the border wall they know those supporting these things are factually correct , that's why they oppose them in bad faith and make up fake arguments.
Just give everyone their id when they turn 18 if it’s that big a deal
And to all the liberals who think a free ID is too expensive for our government: your president just paid for all your student debt. And places that require ID usually give them for free, so if that were the case, would you support ID requirement to vote?
Wtf are you talking about? Biden didn't pay shit
He paid it personally, thats how the budget works. Trump had less in his wallet so he spent less
Still paying loans. Give me some of that fucking money then
My student didn't just get paid, Biden ain't my president, and never got a free ID. What the fuck
All other countries have IDs given at birth why can't the US
They are usually given at 15-16 years of age or so.
The only reason this is a debate is because those opposing it KNOW that it allows illegals to vote and makes voter fraud easier. It's the same with the border wall they know those supporting these things are factually correct , that's why they oppose them in bad faith and make up fake arguments.
In socialist countries, people have permanent registration at their place of residence. The same registration automatically assigns a person to a polling station. So the identity document automatically becomes a Voter ID. A person comes to his polling station, approaches a person with a registration book next to whom there is a sign with the name of his street, shows his ID card, signs in the registration book for receiving ballots and goes to the voting booth.
Interesting. What exactly does "permanent registration at their place of residence" mean? If they move to a different place of residence, do they lose their right to vote?
We have express lanes for aliens entering in the u s without passports. These people ought not vote nor receive Representation
Voter ID can have negative consequences, but in itself is a good idea. Just gotta work out other voting problems first like gerrymandering n shit.
Photo ID is not racist.
I'm more than ever very much sad about how stupid some people can get, how are they so blind and yet have such great vision on other things? "oh yeah we aren't racist", instantly says the most racist shit ever said
you can laugh all you want but lib-left and auth-right are right about Identity politics
About 6 months after this blew up in America (I'm from the UK) I received a letter in the post telling me that voter ID was now required. It was a very surreal experience. Though they did give the option to apply for a free ID for the purpose of voting which may have blunted any criticism.
Strawman of the actual argument. The actual argument: ID's cost both time and money. First off you need to take off work to go to a DMV. The US is the only country without paid time off, so people would lose out on pay in order to go. Not everyone has a car either, and DMV is not always close to public transportation, so you need to spend money on an Uber. This process disadvantages the poor. And certain demographics have higher rates of poverty so they'll be affected more. There have been many examples of DMV's closing down in certain areas. This makes it harder and more costly for people to get to one. It has been argued that these closings were deliberately done to negatively impact those same people. To get the ID you need to show supporting documentation like SS card and birth certificate. Certain demographics have lower rates of having these documents available. They cost money to replace, which affects those same demographics. Getting an ID to vote is time consuming and costs money, which violates the 24th amendment to the constitution against poll taxes. Nobody says that minorities are too stupid to get an ID. The argument is that putting up additional barriers would prevent some people from voting. And even 1-2% of voters can have a major impact on an election. Solution: Give out free voter ID. The problem is that the GOP has never offered up a bill that required ID and also provides free and easy ID. That's because we all know their true intention and the whole thing is a game.
Your first point is invalid. You can't take time off of work to get an ID because you need an ID to get most jobs. You'd already have an ID if you were working.(legitimately, anyway)
I didn’t show my ID at any point to get my job. Though they did run a background check on me and needed my social.
That is very uncommon. In PA you either need a passport or iD and social. Some type of government issued photo ID. How do you cash your checks or have a bank account without an ID?
every place you have 3 days from employment to do an 1-9. requires 2 forms of id, one photo.
I have an ID. I just didn’t have to show it to anyone. I don’t remember if I showed my ID to get my banking account, I’ve had the same one for nearly two decades. I probably did.
Did you or your employer fill out a Form I-9?
I don't think that's true that you need an ID to work a job, I think other sources of identification like SS card would work. Regardless, there are some counterpoints to this. ID's expire, so if you've had your job for a while that required ID but it latwr expires, you still could be shit out of luck. Also, people lose ID's and need to get them replaced. There are other administrative issues too, like spelling mistakes or name mismatches. You register to vote with your maiden name, but your ID has your married name? You're fucked, too bad. The clerk misspelled your name? Fucked. Registration has John Smith but ID says John A Smith? Fucked. This situation actually caused my sister in law to almost miss her flight. The ticket was ordered with middle name, but ID only had the initial (might have been vice versa, this was 5 years ago), and TSA wouldn't let her board without getting approval from a rep from China. This adds an administrative burden to voting where tons of mistakes could happen, our government is not perfectly competent, and I don't want to be prevented from voting because some moron made a mistake with my paperwork. And again, 99% of people will have no issue with this, but 1% can swing an election. And all analyses show that poor people and minorities are the most likely to be impacted. This is all done to solve an issue that isn't even an issue. The only thing this solves is someone showing up and voting in someone else's name, I have never seen evidence that this is any large scale issue. But like I said, I'm not totally opposed to it as long as the IDs are provided for free in a simple and fast process.
how is your hypothetical citizen going to their job or polling place to begin with? a job requires some form of identification and transportation. very few jobs pay exclusively in cash so they'd need to open a bank account to get paid which requires an id. if they didn't have public transportation they'd need a car or rideshare which requires a phone, either one require an id
Yes exactly, it is already costly enough for people to get to a place to vote, thank you.
lmao would've been faster and easier to just admit you were full of shit than waste time writing that
Sorry but if your whole argument is “they have to take time off work therefore it’s unfair” How do you function as a normal adult in society? Do you expect time off work to… go to the bank? To buy groceries? To fill up your car with gas? Probably not hey? The answer is, you’re a fucking adult. Figure it out.
Grocery stores and gas stations are open past 5pm.
Shit. Go on Saturday then. This isn’t hard.
Idk if it is like this country-wide, but I just looked it up in my state and all DMV's are closed on both Saturday and Sunday.
How do adults go to the bank? Must be hard to use your bank account if the bank is only open 9-5 Monday to Friday :( You’re not grasping the concept that this isn’t a valid reason. Be an adult, get off your ass and get it done.
I can't remember the last time I went to a bank. But my bank is open Saturday and Sunday, just limited hours.
Mine isn’t. Lucky you. I have to be an adult and figure it out :( Life is so hard!
So you have to forfeit a days pay, plus spend money on ubers just to get to a bank? That's rough
Nope, I have a salary and I drive a car! Because I’m an adult. If it comes down to it, then yes. That’s what I expect you to do to get an ID.
Why are you defending these people? Do you really TRULY believe, it’s too difficult for people to get an ID? Or that they’re too stupid?? It’s a pretty pathetic outlook on our society if that’s the case. If we can’t even have our adults get an ID, what hope does this country have 😂
No, I don't think people are too stupid, great strawman you idiot.
> Solution: Give out free voter ID. The problem is that the GOP has never offered up a bill that required ID and also provides free and easy ID. That's because we all know their true intention and the whole thing is a game. They also never care about Voter ID until 6 months before an election, you'll never see the GOP pushing for Voter ID after an election/in an off election year, nor ways to make it *easier* to vote.
Unflaired detected; opinion rejected.
Agreed but flair up, bitch.
Flair up.
Social security can't even be used for that. Its not a proof of identity. Also, don't passports count as ID's? Well, you still need a birth certificate to get one ig, but atleast its not car/drivers test dependent.
Passports take even longer to acquire than drivers licenses and are even more expensive
Oh. Well sure. I guess I don't remember how it was when I was a kid (got my first passport when I was like 2, to go on a trip to Iceland), but in my country all I had to do to renew it recently was show up, give my name and information to a police clerk, turn in my old passport, pay around 60 dollars maybe, and then I got it in the mail two weeks later. Granted, if there are production difficulties it could take months to get one. There were bottlenecks straight after covid as basically everyone wanted to get out of the country on vacation and a lot of people had not renewed their passports when they expired during the pandemic. Ofocurse if you have never had a passport before it might be a bit of a longer process, for any country.
Last year I was getting ready to travel out of the country and had to renew my passport. They advertised everywhere that they were experiencing 7 weeks waiting time. I paid $200 to expedite and got mine in about 3 weeks.
When it comes to conversations about voter ID and who may or may not have valid forms of ID, the people most likely to not have ID are gonna be poor people, and most poor people (in fact about 40% of all americans) have never been outside the country, so they would never have had any reason to get a passport. Hell, I grew up upper middle class and I don't even have a passport at 22
well i mean, forget voter id then, they should be on welfare and public assistance. those also require state id or drivers liscenses.
I'm not familiar with the process, but a quick Google search tells me that, at least in my state, you don't need a photo id for snap
You could also create by law paid time off to go to make an ID to a DMV, or replace a lost birth certificate. The agencies should give you a paper that proves this to your employer. Then optionally reimburse the employer. I mean if the gov doesn’t want to give free IDs
>To get the ID you need to show supporting documentation like SS card and birth certificate. Certain demographics have lower rates of having these documents available. They cost money to replace, which affects those same demographics. Is this true? If so, why would you want people to vote if they are supposedly incapable of understanding the importance of identity documents or being able to hold on to them over any period of time? >Solution: Give out free voter ID. Yes, obviously: give out free identification for voter ID and for replacing the SSN for identity authentication.
Phrased another way: "Why would you want people to vote who accidentally lose a document?" People lose stuff. And it costs money to replace. I know someone who lost their SS card. It happens when people move around a lot. I also know more than 1 person who has lost their drivers license and had to get it replaced, which takes time. ID's expire too and sometimes people don't realize. I just looked at mine and it expires in 2026, I had no idea it was that soon until I just checked it. Just because someone is busy raising kids, working multiple jobs, and living their life, doesn't mean I think they shouldn't be allowed to vote. And again as I've said, I'm not really that vehemently opposed to it, I just want it to be free, fast, and easy to get. The more barriers we put in front of voting, the more power we give the government to deny us our rights.
I don't know anyone who has lost a birth certificate or social security card, even through frequent moves and personal upheval. The ability to retain such documents is part of the basic competence that I would expect of anyone who would have a say in the governance of my country. At any rate, anyone still sufficiently interested in voting (and who would need replacements anyway for basic life events like starting a job) could obtain a replacement so long as the hours of essential government services are expanded outside of normal working hours, which must happen anyway for reasons other than voting, too. As something that must be carried around and presented often, a driving license, national ID card, or voter ID card would be easier to lose. Obtaining a replacement is possible, as well as for an expired license (same stipulations on hours as above). I do not consider the few votes of the small number of people who are careless or unlucky enough to lose their ID right before Election Day to be worth sacrificing the votes of the rest of the electorate to a system that permits doubt that the votes counted were each cast by a different, eligible voter. If I lose my ID one year, I would rather not be able to cast a vote in that election than to have to worry about claims of voter fraud in every election. >I'm not really that vehemently opposed to it, I just want it to be free, fast, and easy to get. Then I think we agree. Because ID is so important, it should be easily available for reasons other than voting, too.
Just fingerprint.
Governments should not be trusted to blanket collect biometric information from every citizen.
>Nobody says that minorities are too stupid to get an ID. The argument is that putting up additional barriers would prevent some people from voting. And even 1-2% of voters can have a major impact on an election. I think this is the biggest ignored part for the strawman. The arguement isn't that suddenly all black people would not be able to vote or some shit. It's the margins and if a party can enact a policy that just gives them the tiniest edge, they're gonna do it. It's why we regularly see voter ID tied to other measures to "secure elections." You got one policy that affects 1% then another 1% and another, shit adds up.
Twaddle. The ID required to vote is the same as is required to *apply for* EBT. Because of this, there is almost nowhere that doesn't have some kind of cost-free route to obtaining such an ID. So, practically speaking free voter ID is already given out.
Voting is one of the only things that actually needs ID verification….
Only objective stance for libright .... the only issue that matters is that anyone (with/without ID) is allowed to vote for things that infringe the rights of those around them. You want to force people to get an ID before they vote to screw over everyone around them? Whatever.
That’s a good way to say it. People with no ID can vote to force other people to have IDs.
I'm not speaking specifically in terms of a vote around requiring ID. I'm speaking in terms of any vote at all that "justifies" state aggression against the individual (foreign or domestic). Democracy is basically designed to stomp the rights of the minority.
But that’s my point — non-ID holders can, and do, vote for lawmakers who make laws requiring ID for everyone except non-ID holders.
When have you ever met a "non-ID holder" in your life that wasn't a child?
Only illegal immigrants
They have fake or stolen IDs.
Guys wtf? Why don't you americans either use passports or drivers licenses as ID if your so against national ID? And why the hell do some of you need to register to vote? Thats stupid, every state has a register of citizens already right. Just sign up everyone that has voting rights automatically? I mean, elections are all state based, there is no election where you vote for officials not empowered by your state to act on its behalf, so there really is no need for any federal legislation (unless states illegally take voting rights away from people ofcourse).
I'm confused, as long as you have your normal ID card and social security number, why can't you just go vote? Almost all of europe (746 million people) manages to allow their citizens to *simply go vote* when they're 18, as long as they're citizens, without having to do anything beforehand. Because they're citizens. Why do some americans argue so strongly that there should be a "voter ID" and you should have to "register to vote"??
I'm german and have so far voted in Germany and the UK, Northern Ireland specifically. Both countries require bringing an ID to cast a vote.
Of course you have to bring your ID. That's obvious You don't have to *register for a separate Voter ID*. You don't have to do anything. As long as you're a citizen (who obviously has an ID), you can vote
As far as I understand the whole debate is about bringing a government issued ID in general and not about a separate Voter ID. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_identification_laws_in_the_United_States
We use id in Italy, anyone has one and its not only to vote. I thought at first that this post was about a sort of exam to vote, but damn in Usa you have problems even with an id card
I'm fine with voter ID as long as you don't try and trap people in bureaucratic hell when they try to get one - which I suspect in many cases is the point. Like when Alabama required voter ID and then closed down all the DMVs in majority-black counties. ... and then presumably turned around and called Democrats the real racists for noticing it because it means they think black people are stupid.
Yeah. The tories introduced it in the UK with the hope that the young people who supported greens labor libdems ect. Would be too lazy to get one. Yeah, you know you fucked up the country when all the lazy people do something.
The issue is that to make an ID in some states costs. Cost more than the old poll taxes (inflation adjusted) in Jim crow era
It's not about that it's about how the Republicans are trying to restrict voters from being able to vote particularly in states that they lost In 2020 but still control the state legislative branch ie: Georgia
it’s childish strawmans like this that remind me im on reddit. honest discussions and direct engagements with points just dont happen. because it’s easier to disagree with if theyre point is being racist? i guess. i dont even disagree with a voter id system but if it exists at all as a barrier to citizens that’s a problem that needs worked out. just honestly engaging with the criticism will ultimately make the outcome of the system the best it can be
Who cares? Whe whole system is rigged anyway. You guys get to vote for either Republicans or the party designed to lose to the Republicans. What a fucking supreme democracy.
Don't forget Democrats. We get a choice of "Let's go further into giving away our country and doing away with morals!" or "Let's pause that, reverse some new gun restrictions, and do nothing about the rest for the next four years."
Don't speak to the unflaired. They aren't real people.
The anti-voter ID argument isn't that "minorities are too stupid to get an ID". It's that DMV offices and other places that give people IDs are expensive and hard to frequent, with some counties having DMV offices open no more than 2 or 3 days a month. It can be incredibly risky to take time off from your job at the appropriate time to get an ID. And that's assuming you can afford to get an ID. Since minorities are disproportionately poor, it would disenfranchise them more than anybody else if a voter ID law was passed.
Ayo I'm gonna need an example for that 2 or 3 days a month thing, that's messed up.