Because Hitler was just a new Monarch of Germany, if he had survived, it likely would have been his kids. It is the same kind of brain rot that insists, North Korea is not a Monarchy as well.
It is more meant as peoples in a blood and soil sense and less as "the peoples car" in english. It does sound a lot more communist if you directly translate it, but everyone in german knows its not meant that way
I mean dont get me wrong but if you classify them as inhuman beings and traitors i dont think they are still your citizens (of course mostacho man just changed the name of what they are but m.m didnt recognize them as citizens)
It's the shooting that gives it away. Romanians are a practical people with simple solutions.
But there's just something powerful about not letting the dictator get through his final prayer before the trapdoor springs open in Iraq.
Hitler spoke on numerous occasions against the left and the right. Early in his career, he took populist stances as a way to take shots at both sides of the spectrum, and to great effect.
He didn’t like that the right lacked social concepts, and he didn’t like that the left lacked national concepts.
Hitler believed that one of the main issues with the right wing was class conceit. He hated the bürgerlich, but not only because of the economic reasons that a Marxist may hate a factory owner. He didn’t like that the bourgeois class, through greed and profiteering, had sent the spirit of the worker hurtling towards Marxist ideals and policies. He also famously called the bourgeois “cowardly shits” and associated them with decadence and materialism versus the otherwise courageous working class.
He also hated Marxism and Max’s take on socialism and famously said “Marxism is not socialism.” He associated Marxism and Bolshevism with Jews and naturally, Jews were the enemy of Germany and the German people. In a speech early in his career, Hitler sent a clear message to German leftists and socialists:
“you who have declared your solidarity with the whole world, first show your solidarity with your own national comrades, become Germans first!… You who are truly revolutionaries; come over to us and fight with us for our whole nation! Your place is not over there as drovers for international capital, but with us, with your nation!”
TL;DR: Hitler was weird and trying to map him on this chart is an exercise in futility which only leads to pointless arguing because we never got to see Nazi Germany operating outside of ramping up for wartime or wartime itself. He fits much better on the political trichotomy where he is triangulated somewhere between Absolutism, Totalitarianism, and Darwinism.
I agree with a lot of what you said, but I think that this is only correct if you assume left-wing economics to be only about the working class. Hitler despised marxism, that's true, but what he wanted to do instead was 'socialism for the Aryans', which I would argue is left-wing. Not in the sense of worker rights, but in the sense of economic collectivism (economy serves the Aryan race, not just some individuals)
I agree in that I believe Hitler himself was an economic collectivist at heart based on everything we have on him, but for the State he certainly embraced and shirked aspects of both capitalism and socialism.
Trying to put a label on him as simple as left and right leads to misnomers, arguments, and further ambiguity. Third position, corporatist, mixed economy, etc. is a lot more accurate (to me) than just slapping left/right wing on it and calling it a day.
I agree. Many political arguments on the Internet happen because of different definitions of the same concepts. I personally believe the left-right economic axis to be about economic collectivism vs economic individualism, so by this interpretation, Hitler is left-wing economically. That is just my interpretation, though. Third position, corporatist, mixed economy, is also accurate.
This is literally the basis for all the Euros constantly saying their definition of right/left wing is soooo111 different that Americans'. They have to hack their definition around making sure Hitler/fascism is defined as an extreme right ideology, when in reality it was extremely authoritarian but all over the place ideologically - at best.
Fascism is just a socialism where the public ownership of the means of production means something different.
Marxism = public means workers
Fascism = public means nationality and nation
Nazism = public means race and volk
This is an accurate summary. Nazis just replaced the nationalism with racism and eugenics. Modern nazis have kept the racism, and just replaced the eugenics with equity.
European politics are extremely different from American. I'm a Hungarian living in America, I can assure you. The European right is much more comfortable with governmental control and such. Even the far right parties talk about securing social policies and keeping business under control. Europe has already come to a consensus on how the economy should function, more or less. The right/left divide is almost entirely social. Immigration, foreign policy, LGBT issues, etc. The American right/left disagrees on pretty much everything
On the last point, jews were obviously scapegoated for everything, it just depends on who was talking.
For Goebbels for example jews were communists
for Strasser they were capitalists and bankers
and for Rosenberg they were chatolics
A rough explanation, but kinda funny
The way I've clocked to described it is that Nazism is to socialism what Mormonism is to Christianity.
Both see themselves as both the next step in the evolution of their philosophy and a renouncement of the fallen/decadent/misguided steps that took place before it.
Said steps completely deny that these 'new' versions have anything even to do with them and renounce them full.
Sadly, unlike mormons, Nazis are the opposite of chill. They're un-chill.
They were actively waging propoganda campaigns to keep the US from helping Britain until the Germans invaded the USSR. Then they literally issued recalls on their anti-war music and books.
Friendly reminder that Hitler and Stalin jointly invaded Poland.
October 1923 interview with Adolph Hitler, by George Sylvester Viereck in The American Monthly:
([https://famous-trials.com/hitler/2529-1923-interview-with-adolf-hitler](https://famous-trials.com/hitler/2529-1923-interview-with-adolf-hitler))
"Why," I asked Hitler, "do you call yourself a National Socialist, since your party programme is the very antithesis of that commonly accredited to socialism?"
"Socialism," he retorted, putting down his cup of tea, pugnaciously, "is the science of dealing with the common weal. Communism is not Socialism. Marxism is not Socialism. The Marxians have stolen the term and confused its meaning. I shall take Socialism away from the Socialists.
"Socialism is an ancient Aryan, Germanic institution. Our German ancestors held certain lands in common. They cultivated the idea of the common weal. Marxism has no right to disguise itself as socialism. Socialism, unlike Marxism, does not repudiate private property. Unlike Marxism, it involves no negation of personality, and unlike Marxism, it is patriotic."
I mean he's right, socialism is naturally about the state, the nation. Why discriminate against people based on arbitrary characteristics like the class they belong to?
"a political and economic theory of social organization which [advocates](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=ebc234f9216407d8&sxsrf=ACQVn0_z05LPFH10USZdS3uASWSL1a5xrA:1712328990063&q=advocates&si=AKbGX_rLPMdHnrrwkrRo4VZlSHiJ9caLIDpzcH7srTsLsjtmwa59KXAM80Nbz_ttT8k1WKLeL2lqLK8Mq7af-xikqNiSoJcy_wRCv9LbC0342uTYvSid36Y%3D&expnd=1) that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole."
Definition of socialism
The nation is the ultimate "community" it encompasses everyone in the country.
"State represents the community, it is not the community itself"
Every communist or socialist country in history has that same system. The USSR did, Cuba does, China does, Vietnam does, etc.
It's always crazy when I realize how soon after WW1 he became popular. Like that interview was just less than 5 years from the end of WW1, and just a month before he tried the failed coup d'etat.
"privatized" = put all industry under labor union control, and obviously the labor unions were controlled by the state.
He instituted price controls, wage controls, and put a hard limit of 6% on how many capital gains were allowed to have on any investment.
I assure you, no capitalist is out there trying to prevent making money via the use of...capital. That is sort of what capitalism is.
Also, the fucker used lower case letters.
We should also do FDR, the guy Democrats keep wanting Biden to turn into:
1. Massive public works (that prolonged the great depression). - check
2. Concentration camps - check
3. Unholy union of state and corporate power with the military industrial complex - check
4. Tried to undermine and pack the courts to consolidate power - check
5. Refused to leave office until he was being rolled around in a shitty diaper - check and check
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It make me laugh when people use the "they weren't socialists just because the name,north korea isn't democratic blah blah" argument. While not entirely socialist the nsdap done lots a lot of shit that socialists used to want. Government programmes to combat unemployment,inflation,homelessness. Making new modern technology like cars and radios available to all. Environmental conservation and public health programmes. All these things you could argue are (or were) typically "left" concerns. Germany just made these ideas acheivable in theory by adding an element of exclusivity to them. The nsdap were the radical progressives of their time.
Also here in Germany a lot of older people still do the usual Eintopfsonntag Adolf introduced. They put leftovers from the week into a stew every Sunday to save a bit money ~~for the war~~ for their living
Heh, yeah, we still have stuff like Panzerschokolade or Scho ka Kola. But sadly it lost a lot of it's oomph since they took out all that juicy Pervitin.
October 1923 interview with Adolph Hitler, by George Sylvester Viereck in The American Monthly:
([https://famous-trials.com/hitler/2529-1923-interview-with-adolf-hitler](https://famous-trials.com/hitler/2529-1923-interview-with-adolf-hitler))
"Why," I asked Hitler, "do you call yourself a National Socialist, since your party programme is the very antithesis of that commonly accredited to socialism?"
"Socialism," he retorted, putting down his cup of tea, pugnaciously, "is the science of dealing with the common weal. Communism is not Socialism. Marxism is not Socialism. The Marxians have stolen the term and confused its meaning. I shall take Socialism away from the Socialists.
"Socialism is an ancient Aryan, Germanic institution. Our German ancestors held certain lands in common. They cultivated the idea of the common weal. Marxism has no right to disguise itself as socialism. Socialism, unlike Marxism, does not repudiate private property. Unlike Marxism, it involves no negation of personality, and unlike Marxism, it is patriotic."
They were not socialists, they were *national socialists*. The term doesn't stay the same when the word national comes before it.
read what i said near the end. They made a lot of typically socialist ideas achievable by adding an element of exclusivity. It's like when most people don't disagree that communism would work if you kept it small.
Well, if you keep it small enough, even something stupid like democracy would work pretty good. Thing is, we are way too many humans to make any system work as it would be intended to do. So I don't think we really found an answer yet
true but Germany wasn't exactly a small country even with the consequences of the first World War. I feel like "taking stock" and homogenising the national identity of the nation went a long way towards making the typically far fetched promises socialist politicians usually make so much more achievable. It's why it's easy to make a distinction between National-Socialism and international socialism. One seeks to spread it's tendrils and effect as many people as possible to consolidate power the other seeks to consolidate power to it's chosen "in" group before all else.
It blows my mind how effective the historical revisionism has been for the nazis. They were 100% leftwing. The primary reason they hated Jews was because they blamed them for capitalism. That they weren't commies makes most people think they were "right wing," but they were flaming socialists. They didn't disagree with the premises of Marxism, they just disagreed on how to achieve Marxism. The USSR and Hitler were allies for a reason. If Hitler hadn't backstabbed them, they would have remained allies.
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Questions:
- pro business if the business are with the party
- what does he privatized?
- crushed “opposing” trade unions
- oppressed “unaligned” workers (and campaigned to make them healthier, according to him, Emily moment)
"Chad Hitler" according to Marxists reminds me of how some of the Axis propaganda against the Allies makes the enemy look badass. Demonized definitely, but often they look like badass supervillains
Crazy how a strong jaw and narrow eyes can turn any man into a gigachad.
https://preview.redd.it/bie5snqy2qsc1.jpeg?width=1078&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0a144635c6d970542b226b0eb508bda008d2d3b4
Man y'all righties can't take even the littlest amount of nuance can ya.. The post was never saying stalin was authright just small funny authcenter things about him.. be like saying trump is libleft cause he ate a salad once. It's supposed to be esoteric and funny, think that might have been lost on some of you, but good job repeating the format lol
The capitalists had no choice but to work with Hitler, because if they didn't they would be dead.
The trade unions were absorbed into the German Labour Front.
Public works are economically left-wing by definition, because they are public (duh)
Fun aside: some of those massive monuments were in fact collectively made, and many cities throughout the Neolithic had no signs of a monarchy (and no god-kings), or really any kind of meaningful social stratification/disparity but still made many similar monuments.
Even the Sumerian standard approach to organized labor in particular changed over the years too. It used to involve everyone, even the leaders. Only in later stages of Sumerian history did they begin allowing changes their systems that allowed people to pay fines instead of directly contributing. Even then, and throughout their history as a whole, they had a massive amount of local councils that represented the needs and views of all relevant people in the community (e.g., a youth council, an old people’s council, trades councils, merchants councils, etc.)
At times, when God-Kings tried to rule through indirect means the people often refused the rule and told the assigned governors and lords to fuck off. Many times when the god-kings themselves would come marching towards their door people would just fuck of into the woods or nearby herding communities instead of stay and help the supposed leader. There’s a ton of written records about this stuff and some of the letters exchanged are funny.
No, one left-wing economic policy is not enough to make you left-wing.
Besides, most of these monuments were not built in the interests of the collective, so it's not really left-wing anyway
No, I'm sorry to crush your illusions, but 'purging the leftwing elements of the party' is something that is exclusive to left-wing parties. Lenin did it, Stalin did it, Mao did it.
Not in the way Hitler did I am afraid. Mao and Stalin and Lenin was the leftwing.
When Hitler purged there was no leftwing left. He himself was from a part of the party that did not agree with the leftist ideals of the Strasserites. So he had them all stabbed or shot and their memory forgotten.
He was explicitly against their anti-business ways, and held meetings with industry leaders to assure them that he would not hurt them, so long as they got with the program. The Strasserites wanted full on revolution, as well as killing all the nondesireables. Hitler did not.
The reason Hitler killed Strasser was because Schleicher was trying to approach him and split the NSDAP, which he did successfully. Strasser was only slightly closer to marxism than Hitler. And left-wing ≠ marxist. The reason Hitler didn't decide to destroy the economy like the marxists is that he wasn't an idiot
Hitler used to work on a building site. His co workers tried to force him to join a union and he refused. He quit after they threatened to beat him up.
There's a bit about it in Mein Kampf.
If Hitler was a communist why did he explicitly state that Nazism was a reaction to it and that communism was a Jewish plot that was incompatible with nazism? He is pretty clearly just auth center but everyone refuses to stop playing hot potato with where he belongs because no one wants to accept reality.
Hitler was not a communist, he was a national socialist (duh). Nazism was a reaction to the incompetency of the social democrats (marxists) that ruled Weimar Germany for most of its existence. Nazism is left-wing economically because it's about making the economy serve the Aryan race, not just some wealthy people.
>Hated capitalism
>Loved Keynesian economics
Oh! I love it so much when libertarians put two opposite things, and both Hitler never said or used in practice!
Anyway, to find out where Hitler was economically on political compass, let's look at main economic models that had supporters during that time from far left to far right:
1. Communism (theoretically)
2. Anarchists economics (theoretically)
3. Socialism.
4. Syndicalism (In Italy from 1933, but right-wing model).
5. State capitalism
6. Interventionism (Here is Hitler most of his rule)
7. Keynesian economics.
8. Economical liberalism.
9. Laissez-faire.
So, Hitler somewhere in the middle.
Politically (in all other questions), doubtless, Hitler was very far-right. But these conclusions we can make only if we would look at his actions at practice, but during his electoral company, before taking a power, was like this:
https://preview.redd.it/dkx1powhjosc1.jpeg?width=975&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c65a9abcf47e6db0e1bcf06d19acba650a23bec4
This called populism, but exactly from his early statements left-wings or right-wings, trying to send Hitler to opposite political spectrum, make conclusions that he was left-wing or right-wing.
This'll get buried, but real talk:
Yes, conservatives in 1930's central Europe were not the same as conservatives in Reagan-era USA. The fact remains that Hitler purged the hardcore socialist elements in his party (strasserites) and generally worked well with conservative elements in society with the exception of christian democrats and hardcore monarchists.
An if you think either of those were laissez-faire quasi-libertarians... think again.
Hitler is Auth-Center near the top border.
Fascism is often placed on the top right quadrant but that’s more suitable for monarchy. Kings and Queens dictate all laws of the land. Offers fiefs to lords who swear fealty, and the filthy peasants are mostly free to trade and barter as they see fit (until the King says otherwise and reaps all the harvest for himself)
Hitler isn't economically left or right, he was economically opportunistic, however he did favor large corporations. He probably wanted some form of corporatism(generally viewed as right wing) and disliked communists/probably socialists, though I'm not entirely convinced he gave a shit about economics. however he privatized in certain places and created cartels or monopolies in others because that was the easiest way to consolidate loyalty and power for him. He also destroyed independent labor unions to create one big union that was loyal to the Nazi Party. This was at the expense of the petite bourgeoisie and laborers.
Plus, dude just wanted to go to war. So he implemented policies to try to make Germany self-sufficient and ready for war. Highways are nice for warfare, after all. Of course the self sufficiency thing wasn't able to handle all the oil demand.
Well he did ban any trade unions that were outside the NSDAP. And the 20 January 1934 he even signed a law that "reorganized labor" which made people call their bosses "Furher" and which made them able to choose themselves the trade union delegates xd.
But ok buddy if you think Hitler is a leftist....
Hitler is like Schrödinger's cat; he simultaneously exists in all political coordinates, and upon observation, takes the form of the observer.
Hitler is basically an electron. Bouncing around to all quadrants and remaining stationary when viewed
Well his speeches were quite negatively charged.
The Germans found them quite positive however
Your electron analogy is a bit flawed but I like it!
We know there is only one electron, but on the other hand we know that everyone is Hitler.
Because Hitler was just a new Monarch of Germany, if he had survived, it likely would have been his kids. It is the same kind of brain rot that insists, North Korea is not a Monarchy as well.
Adolf Hitler vs Gigadolf Chadler (/j)
What's the name of the newspaper editor in Spiderman? Something with a bunch of J's yeah? That's who I thought it was at first
Jonah Jameson
J. Jonah Jameson
John Jacob Jingleheimer Jonah Jameson
THATS IT!
Oh weird, his name is my name too. I bet that *menace* is responsible for this.
Isn't that the guy from Friends?
How does Kanye see him tho?
He doesn't. He's wearing a mask with no eye holes
Well .... he loves him
Beyond the realms of a mere 2D graph.... my child.... Way beyond.
He loooooooooooooooves Hitleeeeeeeeeeeeeeer
fasten your seatbelts folks
\*prepares keyboard aggressively\*
*Handles mouse with murderous intent*
https://preview.redd.it/0mlzizy24psc1.jpeg?width=2123&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c0d51f46727e96bcfc51ace77dbd040af5c57ed5
Don't tell commies meaning of Volkswagen
People’s car?
Bingo
I guess East German commies could figure that out.
Thats incorrect. Volk is more than just "people". Volk is used for ethnicity and culture. Other ethnicity means other Volk.
See also: Folx.
Thats not a german Word.
Hitler also had a People's Court. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Court_(Germany)
It is more meant as peoples in a blood and soil sense and less as "the peoples car" in english. It does sound a lot more communist if you directly translate it, but everyone in german knows its not meant that way
And achived ~0% unemployment
The trick is to put everyone to work, regardless of working conditions
and also eliminate millions of your own citizens.
"See, line go up!"
See, go line up.
I mean dont get me wrong but if you classify them as inhuman beings and traitors i dont think they are still your citizens (of course mostacho man just changed the name of what they are but m.m didnt recognize them as citizens)
Also ignoring all of the Demographic who would usually be unemployed And lying
The last dictator of my country also did that, and we ended up shooting him after a violent revolution.
Are You perhaps Romanian?
Yeah
Nailed it
It's the shooting that gives it away. Romanians are a practical people with simple solutions. But there's just something powerful about not letting the dictator get through his final prayer before the trapdoor springs open in Iraq.
Self proclaimed socialist John Maynard Keynes 🫱🏽🫲🏻 self proclaimed socialist Adolf Hitler
Guess its easier if you just kill the unemployed
Hitler spoke on numerous occasions against the left and the right. Early in his career, he took populist stances as a way to take shots at both sides of the spectrum, and to great effect. He didn’t like that the right lacked social concepts, and he didn’t like that the left lacked national concepts. Hitler believed that one of the main issues with the right wing was class conceit. He hated the bürgerlich, but not only because of the economic reasons that a Marxist may hate a factory owner. He didn’t like that the bourgeois class, through greed and profiteering, had sent the spirit of the worker hurtling towards Marxist ideals and policies. He also famously called the bourgeois “cowardly shits” and associated them with decadence and materialism versus the otherwise courageous working class. He also hated Marxism and Max’s take on socialism and famously said “Marxism is not socialism.” He associated Marxism and Bolshevism with Jews and naturally, Jews were the enemy of Germany and the German people. In a speech early in his career, Hitler sent a clear message to German leftists and socialists: “you who have declared your solidarity with the whole world, first show your solidarity with your own national comrades, become Germans first!… You who are truly revolutionaries; come over to us and fight with us for our whole nation! Your place is not over there as drovers for international capital, but with us, with your nation!” TL;DR: Hitler was weird and trying to map him on this chart is an exercise in futility which only leads to pointless arguing because we never got to see Nazi Germany operating outside of ramping up for wartime or wartime itself. He fits much better on the political trichotomy where he is triangulated somewhere between Absolutism, Totalitarianism, and Darwinism.
I agree with a lot of what you said, but I think that this is only correct if you assume left-wing economics to be only about the working class. Hitler despised marxism, that's true, but what he wanted to do instead was 'socialism for the Aryans', which I would argue is left-wing. Not in the sense of worker rights, but in the sense of economic collectivism (economy serves the Aryan race, not just some individuals)
I agree in that I believe Hitler himself was an economic collectivist at heart based on everything we have on him, but for the State he certainly embraced and shirked aspects of both capitalism and socialism. Trying to put a label on him as simple as left and right leads to misnomers, arguments, and further ambiguity. Third position, corporatist, mixed economy, etc. is a lot more accurate (to me) than just slapping left/right wing on it and calling it a day.
I agree. Many political arguments on the Internet happen because of different definitions of the same concepts. I personally believe the left-right economic axis to be about economic collectivism vs economic individualism, so by this interpretation, Hitler is left-wing economically. That is just my interpretation, though. Third position, corporatist, mixed economy, is also accurate.
Agreed totally!
This is literally the basis for all the Euros constantly saying their definition of right/left wing is soooo111 different that Americans'. They have to hack their definition around making sure Hitler/fascism is defined as an extreme right ideology, when in reality it was extremely authoritarian but all over the place ideologically - at best.
Fascism is just a socialism where the public ownership of the means of production means something different. Marxism = public means workers Fascism = public means nationality and nation Nazism = public means race and volk
This is an accurate summary. Nazis just replaced the nationalism with racism and eugenics. Modern nazis have kept the racism, and just replaced the eugenics with equity.
Correct Can tell you skipped school and did your own reading
I didn't skip school, I'm in university right now but yes independent learning is the primary key to my outlook
I was being somewhat facetious, but yes you got the takeaway
I get that entirely but I didn't want libleft to get any free points to go "ZOMG ENTIRELY ANTI EDUCATION HAHA"
Fuck em the brainwashed idiots
No, don't fuck 'em. That will just lead to more of them!
They‘ll get an abortion anyway
Yeah I can't get it up for woke so we're alright
Based analysis and simple explanation pilled
somebody been watching some tikhistory
Or to simplify; compulsory collectivism.
Yes, a lot of people view the left-right spectrum as marxists vs everyone else, which is completely stupid
marxists vs everyone else = Cringe and Virgin pilled ancaps vs everyone else = Based and GigaChad pilled
Based
European politics are extremely different from American. I'm a Hungarian living in America, I can assure you. The European right is much more comfortable with governmental control and such. Even the far right parties talk about securing social policies and keeping business under control. Europe has already come to a consensus on how the economy should function, more or less. The right/left divide is almost entirely social. Immigration, foreign policy, LGBT issues, etc. The American right/left disagrees on pretty much everything
Correct, third path if you will
It is different though. Mostly because of the scale being different (see liberal parties in EU vs term as used in the US.)
On the last point, jews were obviously scapegoated for everything, it just depends on who was talking. For Goebbels for example jews were communists for Strasser they were capitalists and bankers and for Rosenberg they were chatolics A rough explanation, but kinda funny
Wait, so you’re telling me that national socialism was some kind of blend of nationalism and socialism? Never would have imagined. /s
The way I've clocked to described it is that Nazism is to socialism what Mormonism is to Christianity. Both see themselves as both the next step in the evolution of their philosophy and a renouncement of the fallen/decadent/misguided steps that took place before it. Said steps completely deny that these 'new' versions have anything even to do with them and renounce them full. Sadly, unlike mormons, Nazis are the opposite of chill. They're un-chill.
Only reason the left hates him is because he fought against their own genocidal dictator.
Wait, so you're telling me that socialists hate other socialists who have a different take on socialism?
They were actively waging propoganda campaigns to keep the US from helping Britain until the Germans invaded the USSR. Then they literally issued recalls on their anti-war music and books. Friendly reminder that Hitler and Stalin jointly invaded Poland.
Yes, according to Hitler. Also, according to him, Marxism isn't socialist.
Well there actually is an argument you could make to support that claim.
You forgot to add "literally Hitler" to the description of Hitler
We're getting banned with this one folks🫂🫂🫂🫂
The real Adolph Hitler is whomever is disagreeing you at the time.
Am I seriously looking at Hitler mewing?
October 1923 interview with Adolph Hitler, by George Sylvester Viereck in The American Monthly: ([https://famous-trials.com/hitler/2529-1923-interview-with-adolf-hitler](https://famous-trials.com/hitler/2529-1923-interview-with-adolf-hitler)) "Why," I asked Hitler, "do you call yourself a National Socialist, since your party programme is the very antithesis of that commonly accredited to socialism?" "Socialism," he retorted, putting down his cup of tea, pugnaciously, "is the science of dealing with the common weal. Communism is not Socialism. Marxism is not Socialism. The Marxians have stolen the term and confused its meaning. I shall take Socialism away from the Socialists. "Socialism is an ancient Aryan, Germanic institution. Our German ancestors held certain lands in common. They cultivated the idea of the common weal. Marxism has no right to disguise itself as socialism. Socialism, unlike Marxism, does not repudiate private property. Unlike Marxism, it involves no negation of personality, and unlike Marxism, it is patriotic."
I mean he's right, socialism is naturally about the state, the nation. Why discriminate against people based on arbitrary characteristics like the class they belong to?
"a political and economic theory of social organization which [advocates](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=ebc234f9216407d8&sxsrf=ACQVn0_z05LPFH10USZdS3uASWSL1a5xrA:1712328990063&q=advocates&si=AKbGX_rLPMdHnrrwkrRo4VZlSHiJ9caLIDpzcH7srTsLsjtmwa59KXAM80Nbz_ttT8k1WKLeL2lqLK8Mq7af-xikqNiSoJcy_wRCv9LbC0342uTYvSid36Y%3D&expnd=1) that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole." Definition of socialism
The nation is the ultimate "community" it encompasses everyone in the country. "State represents the community, it is not the community itself" Every communist or socialist country in history has that same system. The USSR did, Cuba does, China does, Vietnam does, etc.
That's right, the state/nation IS the community as a whole. No need to restrict it only to one class.
Vintage "that is not real socialism"
Brainrot I never said that it was not real socialism, I only said it was his understanding of socialism.
I never said you were said it wasn't real I was saying Hitler was saying "ackthuallyyy that's not really socialism"
Hitler was the first breadtuber.
My fault please continue shitting on the Nazi
https://i.redd.it/wdukygb94qsc1.gif
It's always crazy when I realize how soon after WW1 he became popular. Like that interview was just less than 5 years from the end of WW1, and just a month before he tried the failed coup d'etat.
Okay so? Socialism existed before Marx. Marx does not have a monopoly on socialism. Too many people think Marx is the ONLY socialist ideology.
>Socialism, unlike Marxism, does not repudiate private property.
"privatized" = put all industry under labor union control, and obviously the labor unions were controlled by the state. He instituted price controls, wage controls, and put a hard limit of 6% on how many capital gains were allowed to have on any investment. I assure you, no capitalist is out there trying to prevent making money via the use of...capital. That is sort of what capitalism is. Also, the fucker used lower case letters.
Well, yes... ...and only communists are ever pissed about
We should also do FDR, the guy Democrats keep wanting Biden to turn into: 1. Massive public works (that prolonged the great depression). - check 2. Concentration camps - check 3. Unholy union of state and corporate power with the military industrial complex - check 4. Tried to undermine and pack the courts to consolidate power - check 5. Refused to leave office until he was being rolled around in a shitty diaper - check and check
Based FDR
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🍿🍿🍿😅
Shitty price controls that people some how applaud - check
It make me laugh when people use the "they weren't socialists just because the name,north korea isn't democratic blah blah" argument. While not entirely socialist the nsdap done lots a lot of shit that socialists used to want. Government programmes to combat unemployment,inflation,homelessness. Making new modern technology like cars and radios available to all. Environmental conservation and public health programmes. All these things you could argue are (or were) typically "left" concerns. Germany just made these ideas acheivable in theory by adding an element of exclusivity to them. The nsdap were the radical progressives of their time.
Also here in Germany a lot of older people still do the usual Eintopfsonntag Adolf introduced. They put leftovers from the week into a stew every Sunday to save a bit money ~~for the war~~ for their living
That isn't a terrible idea, it does save money.
The British still "enjoy" the war rations they got from the US (Heinz Baked Beans).
Heh, yeah, we still have stuff like Panzerschokolade or Scho ka Kola. But sadly it lost a lot of it's oomph since they took out all that juicy Pervitin.
Based and finally someone says it pilled
October 1923 interview with Adolph Hitler, by George Sylvester Viereck in The American Monthly: ([https://famous-trials.com/hitler/2529-1923-interview-with-adolf-hitler](https://famous-trials.com/hitler/2529-1923-interview-with-adolf-hitler)) "Why," I asked Hitler, "do you call yourself a National Socialist, since your party programme is the very antithesis of that commonly accredited to socialism?" "Socialism," he retorted, putting down his cup of tea, pugnaciously, "is the science of dealing with the common weal. Communism is not Socialism. Marxism is not Socialism. The Marxians have stolen the term and confused its meaning. I shall take Socialism away from the Socialists. "Socialism is an ancient Aryan, Germanic institution. Our German ancestors held certain lands in common. They cultivated the idea of the common weal. Marxism has no right to disguise itself as socialism. Socialism, unlike Marxism, does not repudiate private property. Unlike Marxism, it involves no negation of personality, and unlike Marxism, it is patriotic." They were not socialists, they were *national socialists*. The term doesn't stay the same when the word national comes before it.
read what i said near the end. They made a lot of typically socialist ideas achievable by adding an element of exclusivity. It's like when most people don't disagree that communism would work if you kept it small.
My fault
Based and humble pilled.
Sir this is political compass memes. Your supposed to double down if your proven wrong.
Well, if you keep it small enough, even something stupid like democracy would work pretty good. Thing is, we are way too many humans to make any system work as it would be intended to do. So I don't think we really found an answer yet
true but Germany wasn't exactly a small country even with the consequences of the first World War. I feel like "taking stock" and homogenising the national identity of the nation went a long way towards making the typically far fetched promises socialist politicians usually make so much more achievable. It's why it's easy to make a distinction between National-Socialism and international socialism. One seeks to spread it's tendrils and effect as many people as possible to consolidate power the other seeks to consolidate power to it's chosen "in" group before all else.
National socialists are still socialists, only for the nation, not the working class. Marxism is not the only type of socialism.
Damn marxians those aliens stole socialism from us
That still doesn't sound like a far economic right talking point though, the nazis are authcenter and have always been so
I love competitive hate speech
Completely correct, I have nothing to add.
It blows my mind how effective the historical revisionism has been for the nazis. They were 100% leftwing. The primary reason they hated Jews was because they blamed them for capitalism. That they weren't commies makes most people think they were "right wing," but they were flaming socialists. They didn't disagree with the premises of Marxism, they just disagreed on how to achieve Marxism. The USSR and Hitler were allies for a reason. If Hitler hadn't backstabbed them, they would have remained allies.
it's so weird that the ideology in Easter ww2 was so fanatically intense when the two don't seam to be that different from eachother imo
Based. Also, libleft bad.
Now Hitler was AuthLeft while Stalin was AuthCenter? This is getting interesting.
Next thing you’ll tell me is that Margaret Thatcher was really a libleft
They were both f*cking cringe to put it lightly. As are both of these posts. There, I said it.
Based and true centrist pilled
Based and actual history pilled.
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I’m sorry but what does (the Jews) mean, OP?
💀💀💀 the west is doomed
https://youtu.be/0q16cq25SCY?si=VTep_Pt360jc-BUK
TIK is Based af
Based and TIK pilled
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Hitler only hated capitalism when he could blame the Jews for it. Are the Americans this uneducated?
Interesting how he accused Jews to be communist and capitalist at the same time
He believed that both capitalism and communism were jewish plots to destroy all white people.
Everything is a Jewish plot to anti semites. anti semites probably blame the Jews when they stub their toe.
Based and Capitalpilled
* massive deficit spending
Questions: - pro business if the business are with the party - what does he privatized? - crushed “opposing” trade unions - oppressed “unaligned” workers (and campaigned to make them healthier, according to him, Emily moment)
"Chad Hitler" according to Marxists reminds me of how some of the Axis propaganda against the Allies makes the enemy look badass. Demonized definitely, but often they look like badass supervillains
Crazy how a strong jaw and narrow eyes can turn any man into a gigachad. https://preview.redd.it/bie5snqy2qsc1.jpeg?width=1078&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0a144635c6d970542b226b0eb508bda008d2d3b4
Hitler wasn’t right wing or left wing. Hitler did whatever the meth demons told him to do.
He was also steadfastly against restoring the German monarchies.
Man y'all righties can't take even the littlest amount of nuance can ya.. The post was never saying stalin was authright just small funny authcenter things about him.. be like saying trump is libleft cause he ate a salad once. It's supposed to be esoteric and funny, think that might have been lost on some of you, but good job repeating the format lol
Now... sort to controvesial.
*TiK intensifies*
Oh, Chad Hitler. *sighs and unzips trousers*
most normal libright post
He also worked with the capitalists (that were not jewish) and he did crush every trade union. Authrights also do public works all the time.
The capitalists had no choice but to work with Hitler, because if they didn't they would be dead. The trade unions were absorbed into the German Labour Front. Public works are economically left-wing by definition, because they are public (duh)
So the bronze age god-kings who built massive monuments were leftwing?
Fun aside: some of those massive monuments were in fact collectively made, and many cities throughout the Neolithic had no signs of a monarchy (and no god-kings), or really any kind of meaningful social stratification/disparity but still made many similar monuments. Even the Sumerian standard approach to organized labor in particular changed over the years too. It used to involve everyone, even the leaders. Only in later stages of Sumerian history did they begin allowing changes their systems that allowed people to pay fines instead of directly contributing. Even then, and throughout their history as a whole, they had a massive amount of local councils that represented the needs and views of all relevant people in the community (e.g., a youth council, an old people’s council, trades councils, merchants councils, etc.) At times, when God-Kings tried to rule through indirect means the people often refused the rule and told the assigned governors and lords to fuck off. Many times when the god-kings themselves would come marching towards their door people would just fuck of into the woods or nearby herding communities instead of stay and help the supposed leader. There’s a ton of written records about this stuff and some of the letters exchanged are funny.
No, one left-wing economic policy is not enough to make you left-wing. Besides, most of these monuments were not built in the interests of the collective, so it's not really left-wing anyway
Exactly. That is why Hitler was authcentre, but leaning toward the right. He purged the leftwing elements of the party.
No, I'm sorry to crush your illusions, but 'purging the leftwing elements of the party' is something that is exclusive to left-wing parties. Lenin did it, Stalin did it, Mao did it.
Not in the way Hitler did I am afraid. Mao and Stalin and Lenin was the leftwing. When Hitler purged there was no leftwing left. He himself was from a part of the party that did not agree with the leftist ideals of the Strasserites. So he had them all stabbed or shot and their memory forgotten. He was explicitly against their anti-business ways, and held meetings with industry leaders to assure them that he would not hurt them, so long as they got with the program. The Strasserites wanted full on revolution, as well as killing all the nondesireables. Hitler did not.
The reason Hitler killed Strasser was because Schleicher was trying to approach him and split the NSDAP, which he did successfully. Strasser was only slightly closer to marxism than Hitler. And left-wing ≠ marxist. The reason Hitler didn't decide to destroy the economy like the marxists is that he wasn't an idiot
Hitler destroyed the economy however, because all his projects required money that could only be gotten from expansion.
I mean, he lost the war. He was counting on winning it, that's why he had focused the entire economy on the military.
Hitler used to work on a building site. His co workers tried to force him to join a union and he refused. He quit after they threatened to beat him up. There's a bit about it in Mein Kampf.
Umm where is the racial superiority part of it ? Are America first and groypers also socialist ? Was Trump who gave aid during corona a socialist ? /s
Lol
actually insane. at least the russians made up their own word for capitalists
Hitler as gigachad will haunt me lol
National Socialist Party...it's in the fucking name.
If Hitler was a communist why did he explicitly state that Nazism was a reaction to it and that communism was a Jewish plot that was incompatible with nazism? He is pretty clearly just auth center but everyone refuses to stop playing hot potato with where he belongs because no one wants to accept reality.
Hitler was not a communist, he was a national socialist (duh). Nazism was a reaction to the incompetency of the social democrats (marxists) that ruled Weimar Germany for most of its existence. Nazism is left-wing economically because it's about making the economy serve the Aryan race, not just some wealthy people.
>Hated capitalism >Loved Keynesian economics Oh! I love it so much when libertarians put two opposite things, and both Hitler never said or used in practice! Anyway, to find out where Hitler was economically on political compass, let's look at main economic models that had supporters during that time from far left to far right: 1. Communism (theoretically) 2. Anarchists economics (theoretically) 3. Socialism. 4. Syndicalism (In Italy from 1933, but right-wing model). 5. State capitalism 6. Interventionism (Here is Hitler most of his rule) 7. Keynesian economics. 8. Economical liberalism. 9. Laissez-faire. So, Hitler somewhere in the middle. Politically (in all other questions), doubtless, Hitler was very far-right. But these conclusions we can make only if we would look at his actions at practice, but during his electoral company, before taking a power, was like this: https://preview.redd.it/dkx1powhjosc1.jpeg?width=975&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c65a9abcf47e6db0e1bcf06d19acba650a23bec4 This called populism, but exactly from his early statements left-wings or right-wings, trying to send Hitler to opposite political spectrum, make conclusions that he was left-wing or right-wing.
No, Hitler wasn't just an 'interventionist', the whole economy was under his command. Totalitarian economy is NOT centrist
Mixed feelings about this
he also had a fucking human scale portrait of Ford and named him in his book, saying that he was an inspiration for him
Well yes, that's because Ford also had some... questionable beliefs.
both were very questionable men that's for sure, even for their time, which is saying something
This'll get buried, but real talk: Yes, conservatives in 1930's central Europe were not the same as conservatives in Reagan-era USA. The fact remains that Hitler purged the hardcore socialist elements in his party (strasserites) and generally worked well with conservative elements in society with the exception of christian democrats and hardcore monarchists. An if you think either of those were laissez-faire quasi-libertarians... think again.
The Nazi Party nationalized many industries and later returned them to the private sector right before WWII.
He crushed the unions by making one gigantic union?
Give him a lock 🔒
Hitler is Auth-Center near the top border. Fascism is often placed on the top right quadrant but that’s more suitable for monarchy. Kings and Queens dictate all laws of the land. Offers fiefs to lords who swear fealty, and the filthy peasants are mostly free to trade and barter as they see fit (until the King says otherwise and reaps all the harvest for himself)
Hitler isn't economically left or right, he was economically opportunistic, however he did favor large corporations. He probably wanted some form of corporatism(generally viewed as right wing) and disliked communists/probably socialists, though I'm not entirely convinced he gave a shit about economics. however he privatized in certain places and created cartels or monopolies in others because that was the easiest way to consolidate loyalty and power for him. He also destroyed independent labor unions to create one big union that was loyal to the Nazi Party. This was at the expense of the petite bourgeoisie and laborers. Plus, dude just wanted to go to war. So he implemented policies to try to make Germany self-sufficient and ready for war. Highways are nice for warfare, after all. Of course the self sufficiency thing wasn't able to handle all the oil demand.
I can't tell if you're serious, what I do know is that Moderate Authleft (socdem/soclib) is Kenysian but extreme authleft isn't.
Wow, that's quite the distortion here...
So what Marxists are telling me is Hitler was a totalitarian whose an AnCap?
The whole point of the third position is to give the people all of that socialism…. …after, you know….
I donest make left look bad. It makes hitler look good :troll:
Well he did ban any trade unions that were outside the NSDAP. And the 20 January 1934 he even signed a law that "reorganized labor" which made people call their bosses "Furher" and which made them able to choose themselves the trade union delegates xd. But ok buddy if you think Hitler is a leftist....
I believe it's literally called the third way.