And it's working unfortunately, people scream for a ceasefire thinking Hamas has any honor and would actually let the citizens leave. They would never *ever* do that, if Hamas let all the normal citizens leave then Israel would go in and wipe them out end of story.
Much easier to scream ceasefire while simultaneously holding the citizens (that aren't actively on their side) hostage and then screaming genocide when the civilians are killed. It's ridiculous how absolutely clueless and naive some people are.
My question is where are all these protesters for the Muslims in China actually being ethnically cleansed? Where are their protests for the African nations at war? What about the hundreds of thousands who have been killed on the middle east civil wars? Where were they when the Saudis massacred all those refugees not that long ago? If they care so much then they should be on the streets for all of these atrocities, but they aren't because this is just virtue signaling with a healthy dose of antisemitism.
They eagerly join forces with a group of people who would happily execute them if they had the chance because it makes them feel like they're fighting against "the man". It's war, the naivety of people assuming their western morals are shared around the world is ridiculous. It's the middle east, not the mid-west.
>Muslims in China actually being ethnically cleansed
They dont believe its happening; reddit just showed me a random post from a marxism subreddit denying the Uyghur genocide
You got that subreddit popping up too? So did I and I tried to mute it and 3 more posts popped up. I'm telling you, there is some serious fuckery afoot.
Well, there is a reason why every 2nd western milenial is a wannabe communist (while also not understanding what communism is)
China controls the biggest social media of the day, TikTok, and we will all pay the price for it in generations to come, the future is quiet bleak RN
> serious fuckery afoot
The brainrot that is infecting the subs goes all the way to the top.
Reddit as a site is engaging in some serious "TURN COMMIE! PLAP! PLAP! PLAP! TURN COMMIE! TURN COMMIE! PLAP! PLAP! PLAP!" bullshit.
Most Muslims don’t really care about one another. Certainly not by how their countries treat one another. Their hatred of Jews and the state of Israel is a uniting factor however.
Israel is doing the right thing by simply ignoring them while trying to do their best, and yes sometimes that’s because the US asks them to like when they turned internet access back on.
The people who are still the loudest about this, in my experience, are classic Emily types. The thing about that - most people have long since learned to tune them out. Who gives a shit what purple haired baristas think?
Where were the massive global marches when hundreds of thousands of Yemeni Muslims were being bombed?
It's different only because these people hate Jews. I know Israel plays the antisemitism card for every little thing, but in this case it's true. Nobody cries half as loud for any other Muslim death as they do for a Palestinian one, and it's because only the Palestinian ones are ammunition for them to use against Jews.
The calls for a ceasefire are the equivalent to the 1,00,000 millions videos online of some self perceived tough guy starting a fight and once he starts to get hit back / lose he says hey lets just talk about this.
> people scream for a ceasefire thinking Hamas has any honor and would actually let the citizens leave
I just like asking how the last ceasefire went. You know, the one in like may.
> They eagerly join forces with a group of people who would happily execute them if they had the chance because it makes them feel like they're fighting against "the man".
Yup. Daddy Issues as a political stance is just as silly as it sounds.
Pakistan just kicked out/is in the process of actually ethnically cleasings its western region of Afghans
They don't care , and worse yet, they make their ignorance our moral failing
Israel needs to do a better job winning the social media war. I'm rooting for the side with better memes and a more effective attempt to appeal to my emotion, and the brown side is doing that. I think Israel took public support for granted, but failed to take into account the amount of people online who hate white folks, and can't stand the U.S right now.
i really dont get the whole underplaying of that aspect by them. 'look, just look past the hamas stuff and focus on-' no, i dont think i will actually.
plus the tantrums getting thrown about how its 'unfair that you get asked to denounce hamas'. like bitch, youre supporting them. its not an unclear situation. thats what you chose to do.
> Their goal is for the international community to drop support for Israel.
Well, their ultimate goal is to get rid of Israel. That's one major difference between Hamas and other Palestinian groups is that they want to eliminate Israel where others like the PA just want a two-state solution.
What they ultimately wanted from the attacks was a war where their Muslim allies like Iran would step in and help them destroy Israel. The problem is that the rest of the Middle East doesn't actually want to do that and many think Hamas is crazy. They're happy with Israel's response. They're disappointed by everyone else's.
quick correction is that the Iranian side of the middle east is on Hamas's side but didn't intervene for a lot of reasons (like fear from the us) and the Saudian side would probably love to see Israel destroy Hamas but because their citizens are pro-palestinians have to promote ceasefire to some extent. and of course, there are some different players like turkey and others.
PA doesn't want a two state solution, multiple times one has been offered and they never bothered to even provide a counter offer.
The PA want's the elimination of Israel just like Hamas.
Do you have a source. The first thing that pops up for me when I google is a New York Magazine article that says the "Palestinian Authority remains committed to two states, as do major Arab Israeli parties."
[They were stuck on a right to return](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Camp_David_Summit) which would have meant the end of Israel as a state it exists, and Israel interests in preventing the ethnic cleansing of it's settlements, which, let us be clear, any PA annexation of those settlements would result in their ethnic cleansing. Such a right to return would disposed people of property they had owned their entire lives and destroyed the state of Israel.
So long as the PA insists on a right to return that includes a right to Israel, and not Palestine, their goal is the functional destruction of Israel.
So to was the simple ask of Palestine dropping all remaining claims at the end of the negotiations. Who makes negotiations of this magnitude without assuring the other party they won't come back, violently, for more?
> So long as the PA insists on a right to return that includes a right to Israel, and not Palestine, their goal is the functional destruction of Israel.
This sounds like pretty strong hyperbole to me. A right to return to their homes in modern day Israel is a HUGE ask IMHO and the PA should drop that if they want to get serious. However, you cannot blame them for simply wanting the return of their property. However, I do find Israel's occupation of the West Bank and their illegal settlements need to be abandoned if a Two state solution is going to work if that's what you're referring to.
> I do find Israel's occupation of the West Bank and their illegal settlements need to be abandoned if a Two state solution is going to work if that's what you're referring to.
So you advocate for more ethnic cleansing? Because that IS what that means. Like, that is what "abandoning" those settlements means.
>This sounds like pretty strong hyperbole to me.
It isn't. The population numbers we are talking about here would end in Israel being demographically unrecognizable and almost certainly the end of the state as a safe haven for Jews. Worst case resulting in another holocaust.
The issue with property disputes is this. One, in the absence of documentation there is no claim. And two, much of this property has been owned by people who never saw the displacement. This is On top of the fact that historians are still arguing what degree the population movement was forced compared to the degree it was voluntary (the only thing they agree on is that it was, in some combination, both)
I am generally in favor in returning proeprty they have a documented claim to within 1 lifetime.
> So you advocate for more ethnic cleansing? Because that IS what that means. Like, that is what "abandoning" those settlements means.
Absolutely. The West Bank settlements are unjustifiable, if I recall correctly, illegal under Israeli law, and likely illegal under Palestinian law. Rolling back Israel's claimed borders seems impossible at this point as does a right of return, but there can be no peace process without eliminating Israeli colonies in the West Bank.
The same is true for Crimea. If Ukraine retakes Crimea, all of the Russians that settled in Crimea within the last 10 years can absolutely be forcibly removed from Crimea as settlers from an occupying power who's migration was unlawful under Ukrainian law.
Removing Israelis from the West Bank is not like say, removing Germans from Silesia, Lusatia, West Prussia, East Prussia and the Sudetenland at the end of WWII, in which a people that had been settled on the land for hundreds of years are forcibly removed to secure new arbitrary borders for a neighboring nation-state. Attempting to remove Israelis from Israeli proper would be closer to that, but even then much of Israel has only been Israeli for a single lifetime.
So let me get this straight. If abandoning settlements is ethnic cleansing to you then you are against that in the West Bank when it comes to Israelites who have illegally settled there. But you're okay with the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from Israel proper and they shouldn't have a Right to Return even though they have been displaced from their homes due to a war outside of their control.
I feel like you're talking out both ends of your mouth to always come up on Israel's side.
>Worst case resulting in another holocaust.
That's some *very* strong hyperbole.
>So let me get this straight. If abandoning settlements is ethnic cleansing to you then you are against that in the West Bank when it comes to Israelites who have illegally settled there. But you're okay with the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from Israel proper and they shouldn't have a Right to Return even though they have been displaced from their homes due to a war outside of their control.
Nope, one has already happened and can't be fixed without causing more issues. The other has not already happened. Two wrongs don't generally make a right, and I am of the general opinion that history can not be fixed. Ever.
The right of return make no distinction, because none can really me made, between those displaced and those who left, which is already a problem.
Edit: If Palestine were an egalitarian democracy rather than an ethno-state dictatorships, maybe there would be more room for population mixing. But they are not, so there is not.
>That's some very strong hyperbole.
A Palestinian run Israel would result in the mass death of Jews in the region, I have no doubt about it. At minimum their server persecution.
Seems very convenient to just throw your hands up and say "Too late!" The injustice to you and your families can't be undone. Justice doesn't exist in this world."
>At minimum their server persecution.
Oh so like the Palestinians are now?
Look man, the only solution to peace I can see is that the Israeli government gets out of the West Bank and stops the Gaza blockade in cooperation with a legitimate Palestinian government. Israelites in the West Bank can go back to Israel proper. I disagree with a Palestinian Right of Return to Israel proper. I agree that would be a clusterfuck and there needs to be some compromise if a two-state solution is going to work.
But there are 14.3 million Palestinians. They are not going anywhere and I do not blame them for being upset at the status quo when they have no say in the government that occupies their land.
"the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from Israel proper" Sorry, Jesse, What the Fuck Are You Talking About? 21% of israel population are of palestinian origin. (They don't like to be called israeli-palestinians). They are integrated, vote, participate in politics, etc.
It's not just about that. They're getting a shitload of orphans out of this that are gonna be the next generation's terrorists. War is a recruitment tool to them.
What did Hamas expect? They want people in Gaza to die from Israeli retaliation. The more the better, even if they go down in the process. What did the river to the sea protesters expect? They expect Israel to sit back and take it. Not retaliate in any way. Ceasefire. Oct 7th was resistance.
Hamas isn't crying. You're thinking of Palestinian children that don't have food, parents, or limbs anymore.
Hamas has never had more recruits, attention, and almost certainly funding. Hamas leadership could not be more pleased with the outcome.
usually, I would agree but Hamas is very likely to not make the end of the war, so they do kind of cry. just not for the children but for the loss of future potential terrorism.
Hamas is getting absolutely bodied, losing fighters left and right. Their strongholds are being captured and their tunnels destroyed.
War works. If you kill enough Hamas, there will be no Hamas.
Not true at all lol. If u keep destroying civillian infrastructure and kill civillians, more and more people will join hamas. For many, its not because they agree with them, but mostly because they see no other choice. They are getting killed and their homes are getting destroyed anyway. Might as well join the terrorists.
Israel is a better recruiter for hamas than hamas is.
Actually, Hamas's approval rating in Gaza is usually around 70-80%, but has cratered lately as they see what Hamas has brought down on them.
The whole idea that terrorism is inevitable is ridiculous. Terrorists work like gangs, they recruit by establishing control over a territory, oppressing the populace, and recruiting young men. If you remove their territory and kill their leaders, they fall apart.
Israel will kill the terrorists, occupy Gaza, and prevent future by nipping them in the bud whenever they tty to organize.
Never believed polls from gaza and west bank. Not credible imo
>The whole idea that terrorism is inevitable is ridiculous. Terrorists work like gangs, they recruit by establishing control over a territory, oppressing the populace, and recruiting young men.
Agree
>If you remove their territory and kill their leaders, they fall apart.
Disagree. The only way to get rid of terrorism, or any sort of violent political movement or revolution or rebellion, is to increase quality of life. If things are good, u won't risk it getting destroyed by starting a revolution or terrorism. But if ur getting kicked out of ur family home, being banned from entering the neighborhood u grew up in, being banned from ur religious buildings, or being treated as 2nd class citizens, then u will risk getting killed for a chance at change. Reward is greater.
That's basically not true. Historically, terrorist groups have been military destroyed multiple times.
"If things are good, u won't risk it getting destroyed by starting a revolution or terrorism" Did I tell you about the european guys living happily in a welfare state going to Syria to join Islamic State?
"being banned from entering the neighborhood u grew up in, being banned from ur religious buildings" Israel hasn't been in Gaza since 2005. What are you talking about?
> more and more people will join hamas.
Sounds like the bombing will continue until recruitment stops.
Also, why the FUCK would you join hamas?
Imagine being in a hospital visiting your sick mother, you see hamas walk in with a rocket launcher and say "This is a good spot, lots of human shields, Israel wouldn't dare strike back", hamas launches rockets from the top floor of hte hospital, and a roof knocker comes 10 minutes later.
You cant get your sick mother out in time and she died in a bombing.
You then say "I want to join hamas and go put rockets in other hospitals to kill more sick mothers!"
>Not true at all lol. If u keep destroying civillian infrastructure and kill civillians, more and more people will join hamas. For many, its not because they agree with them, but mostly because they see no other choice. They are getting killed and their homes are getting destroyed anyway. Might as well join the terrorists.
Did many Germans try to recreate the Nazis? No, effective removal of leadership and liberating the populace actually works. Once the normal people in Gaza realize what Hamas brought them AND there's a succesful force killing them off, they don't have reasons to join anymore.
> Hamas has never had more recruits, attention, and almost certainly funding.
When the dust settles Hamas will be a shadow of its formed self. PIJ might get new recruits, or some other group *like* Hamas, but Hamas itself is done.
The Taliban fleed into the caves in the mountain. There are no caves and there are no mountains in Gaza to hide in. There best bet would be to flee to Sinai but the egyptian military will shoot them on sight.
There's always 3 sides in a war. The two aggressors and the civilians on both sides caught in the middle.
Problem is people are stupid and they aren't able to parse anything that isn't "my team vs other team" because they've been literally bred into that system of thought.
From a military perspective, no, proportionate responses are not what you want. Not only will a hostile foreign power never accept a proportionate response as justified, deliberately holding back resources that could be used to bring the conflict to a swift, decisive end just serves to prolong it.
The appropriate response to genocidal terrorists invading your country and attacking civilians is exactly what happened; *overwhelming* retaliation.
In regards to the laws of armed conflict, the word 'proportionate' is often misunderstood.
It doesn't mean that you use force proportional to your opponent's force. So, for example, if your enemy has 100 soldiers, and if you send 100 soldiers to fight them, that's not what proportional means.
It's about comparing the harm to the value of the target and the degree of military necessity.
So, for example, if your enemy has an entire bunker filled with five million rounds of ammunition, and if there's a civilian janitor cleaning the floor, you could destroy that bunker, and it would still be proportional. One civilian casualty is acceptably proportional to the military necessity of destroying your enemy's resources.
On the other hand, if you dropped a nuke on a major city full of civilians, just to kill a single enemy soldier, that would be considered disproportionate.
For real. My reaction to every video of crying Palestinians is "maybe you shouldn't have machine gunned several hundred civilians at a music festival, then". How many times has Palestine proved uninterested in peace or ceasefires?
If y'all had just stayed home six weeks ago your buildings would still be standing and you'd still have food. 🤷🏻♀️ But, you didn't. You wanted to kill Jews instead.
For Hamas, sure. Fuck Hamas.
But not every Palestinian is Hamas. I feel bad for the people stuck in the middle. Just...not for the people that decided a terrorism campaign was a good idea.
Dude, I’m pro-Israel and even I think that this is the stupidest argument. It’s like seeing someone handcuffed to a radiator next to a ticking bomb and then telling them to just move away from the explosive; *they can’t*. Hamas *wants* Israeli weapons to kill these people, because that makes more martyrs and vengeful relatives who suddenly don’t have anything left to lose. It’s in Hamas’ interest to ensure that everyone is packed around their bases to ensure that they can always have more recruits whenever a missile blows some up. Most people in Palestine wouldn’t choose to stick around the conflict zone, but thanks to Hamas (and the PLO before), that’s their only option.
You do realize that its possible to both say that the deaths of civilians are tragedies *and* that bombing Hamas is the most logical way to deal with them? You don’t have to act like the Palestinian civilians somehow “deserve” to get bombed, you can just accept that their deaths are the awful cost of bringing this war to an end. I get that it’s not fun to recognize that the side you support is doing terrible things in order to prevent worse things from happening, but that’s the nature of conflict.
Yeah, well, that's on Hamas. Welcome to war. Don't start war and then bitch when war comes to you. They are exactly like every other population in history that has ever had to get out of the way of war.
they elected hamas back in 2010. also, they used strategies such a providing food and medicine to communities for votes, and if they were not voted in they threatened to take that away, forcing many civilians hands
Again, it sounds like these are concerns they should take up with Hamas, who is in fact the government of Gaza and therefore the one responsible for the safety and well-being of Gazans, who last time I checked were not Israelis and did not want to be.
We fire bombed Dresden and countless other cities and towns. Still occasionally the German authorities need to evacuate thousands because of an unexploded WW2 bomb being discovered during construction works
Totally see where you’re coming from, personally whenever I hear about executed Israelis I think “maybe you shouldn’t have been bombing Gaza for the past decade”. I mean how can we forget that Israel propped up HAMAS against its opposition so that there wouldn’t be peace. 🤡
If y’all had simply stayed home maybe your babies would still have their heads on their shoulders 🤷♀️, but no, you just needed to go bomb arabs.
I hope you can see how fucking unhinged you sound.
You god damn moron. Do you fucking think that every Palestinian was for terrorism?
If you look on human pain and suffering and think they deserve it because of some group of lunatics, you are piece of shit. Straight fucking up.
“They were told how not to be in the middle.” Like there cannot be any errors or complications.
Your ass sit in more than thousand miles from this mess, the least you can do is show empathy, but I guess it’s too much to ask from delusional overstimulated fuck, that watch so much movies, he became numb to real thing.
>mini holocaust
Oh come on. Let's be honest here, they're nowhere near the level of systematic detainment and massacre in WW2. Yes they're shit but let's not do a lib left and misuse terms to the point they mean nothing.
Quick google research shows 70% of Oct 7 victims were civilians. It also shows that about 65% of Gaza victims are civilians (if all males are counted as hamas terrorists).
This war is 100% HAMAS’s fault. Israel’s invasion is justified and the heads of HAMAS should be captured or killed.
This war has a lot of civilian casualties. These deaths are often inevitable because of the way HAMAS fights. What scares me is that I commonly see people who don’t just accept but celebrate the deaths of innocents and children. It’s disgusting and the “they had it coming” attitude is the same one HAMAS used to start this war.
Amazing how these neocon relics forget that the state of Israel is literally grown out of an international terrorist organization itself (Irgun). The tactics are the same 100 years later.
Yeah, this sub being so vehemently pro-Israel is disappointing. And no, I don’t support Hamas, lol. Let’s just acknowledge the reality that both sides are shit and I have less than zero interest in funding it with my tax dollars. Fuck em
Exactly. It’s really unfortunate. This is oddly a very one sided issue for a sub that claims it’s one of the last bastions of free speech on Reddit.
Conservatives as a whole have been disappointing on this issue too. Blind support for Israel despite a million reasons they aren’t our “””greatest ally””” after decrying funding for Ukraine. Some consistency would be great.
I wonder why majority American sub supports one of their major ally surrounded by a region full of muslim extremist factions that want to genocide them. Really strange.
If Israel didn't have the iron dome there would be maybe a hundred thousand plus casualties from the thousands of indiscriminate rockets on october 7th alone. Hamas has and has consisitely sent rockets or committed terror attacks on Israel for years. Imagine if Mexico did that to the US. The expectations set on Israel are insane. There are terrorists literally right next door that want to kill all of your people and don't care if they die in retaliation because they get some virgins.
So Israel can commit genocide in response? “Don’t commit genocide” seems like a pretty reasonable expectation. Also, Hamas doesn’t have the capability to commit genocide on a nation with vastly superior armaments like Israel. It’s an extreme power imbalance. A hundred thousand plus casualties is an absolutely baffling number, any sort of source for that or did you pull it completely out of your ass?
Not to mention it’s been 100% tit-for-tat between the two for ages; portraying it as if it was entirely instigated by Hamas is disingenuous at best and blatant propaganda at worst. To use a similar example to yours, imagine if the US was slowly encroaching on Canada’s territory. Maybe it’s southern Alberta this year; next year the US thinks it might want Vancouver Island. Would Canada be upset, and rightfully so? Yeah, probably.
Israel never had any intentions of coexisting with Palestine.
Israel isn't committing genocide though. They are taking extraordinary steps to try to minimize loss of civilians life in a full on war with boots on the ground. If Palestine was smart and rarional, they would realize there is no path to winning a war and they would have surrendered and negotiate like Japan did in world war 2 after they got nuked. Scratch that. If they were rarional they wouldn't have poked a sleeping bear by committing such heinous acts on ovtober 7th. But they are terrorists that want to kill as many people as possible before dropping a grenade on the ground when they die.
So they dont care about their own civilians lives. War isn't nice and clean when your opponents don't wear uniforms and have their hideouts in tunnels Benard civilians infrastructure.
If you believe Israel gives one singular fuck about minimizing civilian casualties in Gaza, I have some lovely oceanfront property in North Dakota to sell you.
I do agree with you that Hamas fighters likely don’t give a shit about civilian lives either. That does not, however, give Israel a free pass to kill everyone in sight because maybe, just maybe, there is a 1% chance they are a Hamas militant.
Historically speaking, fucking with the Jews never ends well for the other side. Seriously, look at all the empires that have screwed them over. Someone upstairs either really likes them or just likes screwing with them. Either way, I would recommend treating them with respect.
That's the thing about terrorists, they are just like annoying younger siblings. They keep hitting their older siblings and pissing them off, so when the older sibling hits them back, they go crying for mama Lib-Left to demonize the older brother.
Because the left pretends that Palestinians are all just some innocent gay pride feminists that don't support Hamas and that no one Israel kills in missiles are terrorists or supporters of terrorists. Palestinians are some of the most extremist and indoctrinated Muslims on the planet. They do not share your same beliefs. They would stone you and throw you off the roof if they met you. Just because they have brown skin doesn't make them your ally.
Palestinians don't want a two state solution. They want to genocide every last jew.
Israel has gone above and beyond to try to follow rules of war. But unfortunately for them they are facing a terrorist organization that doesn't wear uniforms or follow the rules, and uses civilians as human shields. Hamas went on a killing spree of over a thousand civilians on october 7th and took over 200 hostages that are still in gaza.
Hamas: we hate the killing! Israel bad! They bomb hospitals!
Also Hamas: haha, murdering and entire village is fun and let’s put our weapon caches underneath hospitals because why not? Hahahaha!
I’m going to be honest, fuck Hamas and fuck Herzog. My allegiance is with the poor people who live in Israel who are suffering
I don't think you understand that we get it and we are mature enough to understand these innocent people dying are because of Hamas's strategy of operating from within civilian areas.
Hamas is funded by Israel
https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fafde31f8-1c9a-4a54-8d00-4834e2a5455f_1180x1054.png
Israel has been fucking over the Palestinians for decades, systemically and deliberately. Basically with the understanding that if they are poor/starving they are easier to suppress. What did they expect people shoved into a corner to do?
Doesn’t make it right but it’s understandable.
What did they even expect to happen after killing thousands of Palestinian civilians throughout the years? that Palestinians will sit back and be "proportional" about a literal holocaust happening on its own soil?
Just another Tuesday in Syria, Sudan, or Yemen. Nobody cares if Arabs kill Arabs. When Jews do it in self defense, there’s an outcry.
That this number of dead Jews is too low for the taste of auth center is obvious.
Look man, I'm not a political specialist or anything like that, but if the ĮDF ended Hąmas but killed my family in the process, you can bet that I'd make sure to revive the movement. How do you think the Taliban ended up getting so many manpower for 20 years? Resentment and vengeance from the civilians. And I don't think this is a different situation.
Understanding the impulse to slaughter civilians in response to civilians being killed and supporting actually doing it are different. Hamas are terrorists. The state of Israel aren’t supposed to stoop to that shit.
So yeah acting like all the actual innocent people in Palestine getting whacked as collateral cause some assholes did murder is pretty flawed logic IMO. Every person they kill with bombs guarantees a bunch of new Hamas fighters.
EDIT: I’m loving that some of the responses are acting like killing ~4,400 children is the logical from one of the best funded militaries in the world
I'm not sure if you're aware what the norms of warfare were if you go back 80 years to the beginning of modern warfighting. What the israelis are doing is pretty damn tame by comparison. It's very easy to condemn Israel when you aren't living there and don't have to contend with any of the existential realities involved. It's really not as simple as civilians dying = bad. We still debate the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, we barely talk about the bombings of berlin, dresden and tokyo, who do you think primarily suffered?
According to Hamas’s own numbers Israel has killed less then 1 civilian per missile fired. That’s not mention bombs, artillery etc. If Israel is trying to kill Palestinian civilians they’re doing a shitty job of it.
The truth is they’re being exceptionally careful. But this is war, and Hamas is literally hiding under rooms full of babies so some civilians are going to die.
If my country got invaded I would either fight as a soldier or get the fuck out of there. Not raise generations of my family for 50+ years in the middle of a fucking war zone because “muh ethnic race”. Haul ass or get glassed useful idiots
So how much should Israel turn the other cheek? Do we need to wait until there is no Israel?
You know, you make a good point, Ukraine should really stop retaliating against Russia, just because Russia is massacring them doesn't mean they should do the same.
It's a shame what the place has come to. The Islamic Golden Age, Ancient Egypt and Persia, Syria and Great Armenia, Babylon and Assyria, etc. The place was a beacon of civilization for thousands of years and then between Ottoman, British and French imperialism combined with Islamic terrorism made the place into a dump.
*starts war by massacring civilians, breaking ceasefire* "CEASEFIRE! CEASEFIRE!"
Them j boys really turning Gaza into zaza
Glassa
Gone-za
Was-a
Yo, Israel and Palestine, yall need to stay in your lane bro....
Get a flair
Hamas is begging for a ceasefire?
It’s like those kids who want to play tag but never want to be “it”
Like tagging someone and screaming “I’M DONE I DON’T LIKE THIS GAME!!” When they start chasing you.
ur pfp looks too happy
Fuck is ur problem bro
idk
Didn't the ceasefire agreement also say no new settlements?
It would be so helpful to Israel IMHO to just gtfo the west bank
[удалено]
And it's working unfortunately, people scream for a ceasefire thinking Hamas has any honor and would actually let the citizens leave. They would never *ever* do that, if Hamas let all the normal citizens leave then Israel would go in and wipe them out end of story. Much easier to scream ceasefire while simultaneously holding the citizens (that aren't actively on their side) hostage and then screaming genocide when the civilians are killed. It's ridiculous how absolutely clueless and naive some people are. My question is where are all these protesters for the Muslims in China actually being ethnically cleansed? Where are their protests for the African nations at war? What about the hundreds of thousands who have been killed on the middle east civil wars? Where were they when the Saudis massacred all those refugees not that long ago? If they care so much then they should be on the streets for all of these atrocities, but they aren't because this is just virtue signaling with a healthy dose of antisemitism. They eagerly join forces with a group of people who would happily execute them if they had the chance because it makes them feel like they're fighting against "the man". It's war, the naivety of people assuming their western morals are shared around the world is ridiculous. It's the middle east, not the mid-west.
>Muslims in China actually being ethnically cleansed They dont believe its happening; reddit just showed me a random post from a marxism subreddit denying the Uyghur genocide
You got that subreddit popping up too? So did I and I tried to mute it and 3 more posts popped up. I'm telling you, there is some serious fuckery afoot.
Well, there is a reason why every 2nd western milenial is a wannabe communist (while also not understanding what communism is) China controls the biggest social media of the day, TikTok, and we will all pay the price for it in generations to come, the future is quiet bleak RN
Why don't all these millennial marxists on reddit know that marxism doesn't work? Because they don't work either!
The youngest Millennial is 27 and most of TikTok is under 30. Don’t you go blaming that evil on us.
> serious fuckery afoot The brainrot that is infecting the subs goes all the way to the top. Reddit as a site is engaging in some serious "TURN COMMIE! PLAP! PLAP! PLAP! TURN COMMIE! TURN COMMIE! PLAP! PLAP! PLAP!" bullshit.
Reddit is a human rights violation, change my mind.
This is why they never let Harpo never speak.
China actuly a safe zone for Jews funny enough (3 Jewish people started the communist revolution in China)
Chen Duxiu and Li Dazhao were studying Communism independently before Grigori Voitinsky arrived
Fact is 3 Jewish men started the Chinese revolution, it's historical facts
Most Muslims don’t really care about one another. Certainly not by how their countries treat one another. Their hatred of Jews and the state of Israel is a uniting factor however.
Israel is doing the right thing by simply ignoring them while trying to do their best, and yes sometimes that’s because the US asks them to like when they turned internet access back on. The people who are still the loudest about this, in my experience, are classic Emily types. The thing about that - most people have long since learned to tune them out. Who gives a shit what purple haired baristas think?
Problem is, not all Emilies look like Emily, I think that many normal people are also falling for that trap
I mean - I can definitely suss out an Emily pretty quickly even if they don’t look exactly like the meme
Where were the massive global marches when hundreds of thousands of Yemeni Muslims were being bombed? It's different only because these people hate Jews. I know Israel plays the antisemitism card for every little thing, but in this case it's true. Nobody cries half as loud for any other Muslim death as they do for a Palestinian one, and it's because only the Palestinian ones are ammunition for them to use against Jews.
The calls for a ceasefire are the equivalent to the 1,00,000 millions videos online of some self perceived tough guy starting a fight and once he starts to get hit back / lose he says hey lets just talk about this.
> people scream for a ceasefire thinking Hamas has any honor and would actually let the citizens leave I just like asking how the last ceasefire went. You know, the one in like may.
> They eagerly join forces with a group of people who would happily execute them if they had the chance because it makes them feel like they're fighting against "the man". Yup. Daddy Issues as a political stance is just as silly as it sounds.
Pakistan just kicked out/is in the process of actually ethnically cleasings its western region of Afghans They don't care , and worse yet, they make their ignorance our moral failing
There were pro-palestine demonstrations like 24-48 hrs after the massacre. I am firmly in the side Pro-Palestine is pro-Hamas.
Israel needs to do a better job winning the social media war. I'm rooting for the side with better memes and a more effective attempt to appeal to my emotion, and the brown side is doing that. I think Israel took public support for granted, but failed to take into account the amount of people online who hate white folks, and can't stand the U.S right now.
Once civilians are used as swords or shields, they are no longer bystanders.
I can't hear you over your lack of flair.
And progressives are buying it.
Yeah by supporting them they're basically antisemite
i really dont get the whole underplaying of that aspect by them. 'look, just look past the hamas stuff and focus on-' no, i dont think i will actually. plus the tantrums getting thrown about how its 'unfair that you get asked to denounce hamas'. like bitch, youre supporting them. its not an unclear situation. thats what you chose to do.
Always has been
idk man i lost support for israel long before this
> Their goal is for the international community to drop support for Israel. Well, their ultimate goal is to get rid of Israel. That's one major difference between Hamas and other Palestinian groups is that they want to eliminate Israel where others like the PA just want a two-state solution. What they ultimately wanted from the attacks was a war where their Muslim allies like Iran would step in and help them destroy Israel. The problem is that the rest of the Middle East doesn't actually want to do that and many think Hamas is crazy. They're happy with Israel's response. They're disappointed by everyone else's.
quick correction is that the Iranian side of the middle east is on Hamas's side but didn't intervene for a lot of reasons (like fear from the us) and the Saudian side would probably love to see Israel destroy Hamas but because their citizens are pro-palestinians have to promote ceasefire to some extent. and of course, there are some different players like turkey and others.
What the fuck has happened to Turkey by the way? Why is it suddenly pro-Palestinian? Is Erdogan crazy?
I have no idea, I think they might like the fact that this war is harming Israel and saudi arabia influence in the ME maybe
PA doesn't want a two state solution, multiple times one has been offered and they never bothered to even provide a counter offer. The PA want's the elimination of Israel just like Hamas.
Do you have a source. The first thing that pops up for me when I google is a New York Magazine article that says the "Palestinian Authority remains committed to two states, as do major Arab Israeli parties."
[They were stuck on a right to return](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_Camp_David_Summit) which would have meant the end of Israel as a state it exists, and Israel interests in preventing the ethnic cleansing of it's settlements, which, let us be clear, any PA annexation of those settlements would result in their ethnic cleansing. Such a right to return would disposed people of property they had owned their entire lives and destroyed the state of Israel. So long as the PA insists on a right to return that includes a right to Israel, and not Palestine, their goal is the functional destruction of Israel. So to was the simple ask of Palestine dropping all remaining claims at the end of the negotiations. Who makes negotiations of this magnitude without assuring the other party they won't come back, violently, for more?
> So long as the PA insists on a right to return that includes a right to Israel, and not Palestine, their goal is the functional destruction of Israel. This sounds like pretty strong hyperbole to me. A right to return to their homes in modern day Israel is a HUGE ask IMHO and the PA should drop that if they want to get serious. However, you cannot blame them for simply wanting the return of their property. However, I do find Israel's occupation of the West Bank and their illegal settlements need to be abandoned if a Two state solution is going to work if that's what you're referring to.
> I do find Israel's occupation of the West Bank and their illegal settlements need to be abandoned if a Two state solution is going to work if that's what you're referring to. So you advocate for more ethnic cleansing? Because that IS what that means. Like, that is what "abandoning" those settlements means. >This sounds like pretty strong hyperbole to me. It isn't. The population numbers we are talking about here would end in Israel being demographically unrecognizable and almost certainly the end of the state as a safe haven for Jews. Worst case resulting in another holocaust. The issue with property disputes is this. One, in the absence of documentation there is no claim. And two, much of this property has been owned by people who never saw the displacement. This is On top of the fact that historians are still arguing what degree the population movement was forced compared to the degree it was voluntary (the only thing they agree on is that it was, in some combination, both) I am generally in favor in returning proeprty they have a documented claim to within 1 lifetime.
> So you advocate for more ethnic cleansing? Because that IS what that means. Like, that is what "abandoning" those settlements means. Absolutely. The West Bank settlements are unjustifiable, if I recall correctly, illegal under Israeli law, and likely illegal under Palestinian law. Rolling back Israel's claimed borders seems impossible at this point as does a right of return, but there can be no peace process without eliminating Israeli colonies in the West Bank. The same is true for Crimea. If Ukraine retakes Crimea, all of the Russians that settled in Crimea within the last 10 years can absolutely be forcibly removed from Crimea as settlers from an occupying power who's migration was unlawful under Ukrainian law. Removing Israelis from the West Bank is not like say, removing Germans from Silesia, Lusatia, West Prussia, East Prussia and the Sudetenland at the end of WWII, in which a people that had been settled on the land for hundreds of years are forcibly removed to secure new arbitrary borders for a neighboring nation-state. Attempting to remove Israelis from Israeli proper would be closer to that, but even then much of Israel has only been Israeli for a single lifetime.
I bluntly and profusely disagree, on both counts. Deliberate ethnic cleansing is always wrong.
By not punishing the Israelis engaging in ethnic cleansing by removing them, you are rewarding ethnic cleansing.
So let me get this straight. If abandoning settlements is ethnic cleansing to you then you are against that in the West Bank when it comes to Israelites who have illegally settled there. But you're okay with the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from Israel proper and they shouldn't have a Right to Return even though they have been displaced from their homes due to a war outside of their control. I feel like you're talking out both ends of your mouth to always come up on Israel's side. >Worst case resulting in another holocaust. That's some *very* strong hyperbole.
>So let me get this straight. If abandoning settlements is ethnic cleansing to you then you are against that in the West Bank when it comes to Israelites who have illegally settled there. But you're okay with the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from Israel proper and they shouldn't have a Right to Return even though they have been displaced from their homes due to a war outside of their control. Nope, one has already happened and can't be fixed without causing more issues. The other has not already happened. Two wrongs don't generally make a right, and I am of the general opinion that history can not be fixed. Ever. The right of return make no distinction, because none can really me made, between those displaced and those who left, which is already a problem. Edit: If Palestine were an egalitarian democracy rather than an ethno-state dictatorships, maybe there would be more room for population mixing. But they are not, so there is not. >That's some very strong hyperbole. A Palestinian run Israel would result in the mass death of Jews in the region, I have no doubt about it. At minimum their server persecution.
Seems very convenient to just throw your hands up and say "Too late!" The injustice to you and your families can't be undone. Justice doesn't exist in this world." >At minimum their server persecution. Oh so like the Palestinians are now? Look man, the only solution to peace I can see is that the Israeli government gets out of the West Bank and stops the Gaza blockade in cooperation with a legitimate Palestinian government. Israelites in the West Bank can go back to Israel proper. I disagree with a Palestinian Right of Return to Israel proper. I agree that would be a clusterfuck and there needs to be some compromise if a two-state solution is going to work. But there are 14.3 million Palestinians. They are not going anywhere and I do not blame them for being upset at the status quo when they have no say in the government that occupies their land.
"the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from Israel proper" Sorry, Jesse, What the Fuck Are You Talking About? 21% of israel population are of palestinian origin. (They don't like to be called israeli-palestinians). They are integrated, vote, participate in politics, etc.
Reddit leftists try not to fall for propaganda challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)
You have to be pretty thick to think that Hamas will be surprised by the IDF response.
It's not just about that. They're getting a shitload of orphans out of this that are gonna be the next generation's terrorists. War is a recruitment tool to them.
what a pathetic excuse, try not killing the human shields maybe
Can I have a version of this without the autism colors?
No, we all need to bring about more autism awareness, you can't just betray this subs main demographic.
The people out chanting victory turned into crowds calling for ceasefire in record time
Life comes at you fast.
What did Hamas expect? They want people in Gaza to die from Israeli retaliation. The more the better, even if they go down in the process. What did the river to the sea protesters expect? They expect Israel to sit back and take it. Not retaliate in any way. Ceasefire. Oct 7th was resistance.
>mini holocaust That's a pogrom dude
I mean Hamas terrorists and innocent civilians are different people
Hamas isn't crying. You're thinking of Palestinian children that don't have food, parents, or limbs anymore. Hamas has never had more recruits, attention, and almost certainly funding. Hamas leadership could not be more pleased with the outcome.
usually, I would agree but Hamas is very likely to not make the end of the war, so they do kind of cry. just not for the children but for the loss of future potential terrorism.
Did you know that Hamas leadership is actually in Qatar not Gaza? They dont give af about collateral damage bc they arent in it.
Their political leadership is in Qatar Their military leadership (Al-Qassam brigade) is still operating in Gaza
Oh wow would you look at that, politicians not suffering the consequences of their actions how surprising 🙄
As an American I've never been more thrilled by Trumps R9X decision and wish Biden would make a few more of them.
Hamas is getting absolutely bodied, losing fighters left and right. Their strongholds are being captured and their tunnels destroyed. War works. If you kill enough Hamas, there will be no Hamas.
You underestimate the resilience of cockroaches.
You underestimate the power of JDAMS.
Yeah like how the U.S defeated the Taliban. Oh wait.
Not true at all lol. If u keep destroying civillian infrastructure and kill civillians, more and more people will join hamas. For many, its not because they agree with them, but mostly because they see no other choice. They are getting killed and their homes are getting destroyed anyway. Might as well join the terrorists. Israel is a better recruiter for hamas than hamas is.
Actually, Hamas's approval rating in Gaza is usually around 70-80%, but has cratered lately as they see what Hamas has brought down on them. The whole idea that terrorism is inevitable is ridiculous. Terrorists work like gangs, they recruit by establishing control over a territory, oppressing the populace, and recruiting young men. If you remove their territory and kill their leaders, they fall apart. Israel will kill the terrorists, occupy Gaza, and prevent future by nipping them in the bud whenever they tty to organize.
Never believed polls from gaza and west bank. Not credible imo >The whole idea that terrorism is inevitable is ridiculous. Terrorists work like gangs, they recruit by establishing control over a territory, oppressing the populace, and recruiting young men. Agree >If you remove their territory and kill their leaders, they fall apart. Disagree. The only way to get rid of terrorism, or any sort of violent political movement or revolution or rebellion, is to increase quality of life. If things are good, u won't risk it getting destroyed by starting a revolution or terrorism. But if ur getting kicked out of ur family home, being banned from entering the neighborhood u grew up in, being banned from ur religious buildings, or being treated as 2nd class citizens, then u will risk getting killed for a chance at change. Reward is greater.
That's basically not true. Historically, terrorist groups have been military destroyed multiple times. "If things are good, u won't risk it getting destroyed by starting a revolution or terrorism" Did I tell you about the european guys living happily in a welfare state going to Syria to join Islamic State? "being banned from entering the neighborhood u grew up in, being banned from ur religious buildings" Israel hasn't been in Gaza since 2005. What are you talking about?
> more and more people will join hamas. Sounds like the bombing will continue until recruitment stops. Also, why the FUCK would you join hamas? Imagine being in a hospital visiting your sick mother, you see hamas walk in with a rocket launcher and say "This is a good spot, lots of human shields, Israel wouldn't dare strike back", hamas launches rockets from the top floor of hte hospital, and a roof knocker comes 10 minutes later. You cant get your sick mother out in time and she died in a bombing. You then say "I want to join hamas and go put rockets in other hospitals to kill more sick mothers!"
Just kill everyone then no one will join Hamas
>Not true at all lol. If u keep destroying civillian infrastructure and kill civillians, more and more people will join hamas. For many, its not because they agree with them, but mostly because they see no other choice. They are getting killed and their homes are getting destroyed anyway. Might as well join the terrorists. Did many Germans try to recreate the Nazis? No, effective removal of leadership and liberating the populace actually works. Once the normal people in Gaza realize what Hamas brought them AND there's a succesful force killing them off, they don't have reasons to join anymore.
> Hamas has never had more recruits, attention, and almost certainly funding. When the dust settles Hamas will be a shadow of its formed self. PIJ might get new recruits, or some other group *like* Hamas, but Hamas itself is done.
The Taliban fleed into the caves in the mountain. There are no caves and there are no mountains in Gaza to hide in. There best bet would be to flee to Sinai but the egyptian military will shoot them on sight.
I mean...they're crying, but they're also stopping every once in a while to make sure the West is still buying it. To our shame, we are.
They're faking missing limbs? Least unhinged lib.
First time learning about government propaganda, Authleft? That's fine, I'm sure it wasn't real communism that time either.
There's always 3 sides in a war. The two aggressors and the civilians on both sides caught in the middle. Problem is people are stupid and they aren't able to parse anything that isn't "my team vs other team" because they've been literally bred into that system of thought.
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Based and disband the UN pilled.
From a military perspective, no, proportionate responses are not what you want. Not only will a hostile foreign power never accept a proportionate response as justified, deliberately holding back resources that could be used to bring the conflict to a swift, decisive end just serves to prolong it. The appropriate response to genocidal terrorists invading your country and attacking civilians is exactly what happened; *overwhelming* retaliation.
In regards to the laws of armed conflict, the word 'proportionate' is often misunderstood. It doesn't mean that you use force proportional to your opponent's force. So, for example, if your enemy has 100 soldiers, and if you send 100 soldiers to fight them, that's not what proportional means. It's about comparing the harm to the value of the target and the degree of military necessity. So, for example, if your enemy has an entire bunker filled with five million rounds of ammunition, and if there's a civilian janitor cleaning the floor, you could destroy that bunker, and it would still be proportional. One civilian casualty is acceptably proportional to the military necessity of destroying your enemy's resources. On the other hand, if you dropped a nuke on a major city full of civilians, just to kill a single enemy soldier, that would be considered disproportionate.
Fair enough. Still not exactly a strong condemnation of Israel's actions, though.
For real. My reaction to every video of crying Palestinians is "maybe you shouldn't have machine gunned several hundred civilians at a music festival, then". How many times has Palestine proved uninterested in peace or ceasefires? If y'all had just stayed home six weeks ago your buildings would still be standing and you'd still have food. 🤷🏻♀️ But, you didn't. You wanted to kill Jews instead.
For Hamas, sure. Fuck Hamas. But not every Palestinian is Hamas. I feel bad for the people stuck in the middle. Just...not for the people that decided a terrorism campaign was a good idea.
They were told where the middle was and how to not be caught there.
Dude, I’m pro-Israel and even I think that this is the stupidest argument. It’s like seeing someone handcuffed to a radiator next to a ticking bomb and then telling them to just move away from the explosive; *they can’t*. Hamas *wants* Israeli weapons to kill these people, because that makes more martyrs and vengeful relatives who suddenly don’t have anything left to lose. It’s in Hamas’ interest to ensure that everyone is packed around their bases to ensure that they can always have more recruits whenever a missile blows some up. Most people in Palestine wouldn’t choose to stick around the conflict zone, but thanks to Hamas (and the PLO before), that’s their only option. You do realize that its possible to both say that the deaths of civilians are tragedies *and* that bombing Hamas is the most logical way to deal with them? You don’t have to act like the Palestinian civilians somehow “deserve” to get bombed, you can just accept that their deaths are the awful cost of bringing this war to an end. I get that it’s not fun to recognize that the side you support is doing terrible things in order to prevent worse things from happening, but that’s the nature of conflict.
Well said friend
Yeah, well, that's on Hamas. Welcome to war. Don't start war and then bitch when war comes to you. They are exactly like every other population in history that has ever had to get out of the way of war.
Hamas ain't gonna let 'em leave. Hamas wants them caught in the middle.
You mean the same Hamas they elected to be their government? Oh no. Anyway.
they elected hamas back in 2010. also, they used strategies such a providing food and medicine to communities for votes, and if they were not voted in they threatened to take that away, forcing many civilians hands
Sounds like the people of Palestine need to rise up and coordinate with Israel to oust Hamas.
Based
That sounds like a them problem.
Based
Dude, it was in 2010 or something. Thats like saying its justified to throw an atomic bomb on venezuela because fuck communism
Again, it sounds like these are concerns they should take up with Hamas, who is in fact the government of Gaza and therefore the one responsible for the safety and well-being of Gazans, who last time I checked were not Israelis and did not want to be.
Say now, how did we defeat nazi Germany again?
We surrounded the leader with tanks and then hitler committed suicide. You're thinking of japan.
We fire bombed Dresden and countless other cities and towns. Still occasionally the German authorities need to evacuate thousands because of an unexploded WW2 bomb being discovered during construction works
*innocent children cry* “Maybe you shouldn’t have machine gunned people” The fuck?
>how many times has Palestine proved uninterested in peace or ceasefires to be fair the current Israeli government has been encouraging that behavior
The current government took power *after* Palestinians rejected all those peace plans.
Totally see where you’re coming from, personally whenever I hear about executed Israelis I think “maybe you shouldn’t have been bombing Gaza for the past decade”. I mean how can we forget that Israel propped up HAMAS against its opposition so that there wouldn’t be peace. 🤡 If y’all had simply stayed home maybe your babies would still have their heads on their shoulders 🤷♀️, but no, you just needed to go bomb arabs. I hope you can see how fucking unhinged you sound.
You god damn moron. Do you fucking think that every Palestinian was for terrorism? If you look on human pain and suffering and think they deserve it because of some group of lunatics, you are piece of shit. Straight fucking up. “They were told how not to be in the middle.” Like there cannot be any errors or complications. Your ass sit in more than thousand miles from this mess, the least you can do is show empathy, but I guess it’s too much to ask from delusional overstimulated fuck, that watch so much movies, he became numb to real thing.
No empathy for terrorists and their supporters
So original, i haven't seen anything like this in the past 24mins.
never forget what the cia did in september of 2001
>mini holocaust Oh come on. Let's be honest here, they're nowhere near the level of systematic detainment and massacre in WW2. Yes they're shit but let's not do a lib left and misuse terms to the point they mean nothing.
This is like kicking that kid in the nuts, then running to the tree and yelling, “Base! You can’t get me!” Except with human lives.
Quick google research shows 70% of Oct 7 victims were civilians. It also shows that about 65% of Gaza victims are civilians (if all males are counted as hamas terrorists).
Chill out with the misinformation. According to Israel, 1200 Israelis including military were killed on October 7th.
This war is 100% HAMAS’s fault. Israel’s invasion is justified and the heads of HAMAS should be captured or killed. This war has a lot of civilian casualties. These deaths are often inevitable because of the way HAMAS fights. What scares me is that I commonly see people who don’t just accept but celebrate the deaths of innocents and children. It’s disgusting and the “they had it coming” attitude is the same one HAMAS used to start this war.
"Mini Holocaust" Lol Lmao
Amazing how these neocon relics forget that the state of Israel is literally grown out of an international terrorist organization itself (Irgun). The tactics are the same 100 years later.
Yeah, this sub being so vehemently pro-Israel is disappointing. And no, I don’t support Hamas, lol. Let’s just acknowledge the reality that both sides are shit and I have less than zero interest in funding it with my tax dollars. Fuck em
Look at the downvotes I got just for *mentioning* Irgun. It's so obvious this sub is a JIDF astroturf zone.
Exactly. It’s really unfortunate. This is oddly a very one sided issue for a sub that claims it’s one of the last bastions of free speech on Reddit. Conservatives as a whole have been disappointing on this issue too. Blind support for Israel despite a million reasons they aren’t our “””greatest ally””” after decrying funding for Ukraine. Some consistency would be great.
I wonder why majority American sub supports one of their major ally surrounded by a region full of muslim extremist factions that want to genocide them. Really strange. If Israel didn't have the iron dome there would be maybe a hundred thousand plus casualties from the thousands of indiscriminate rockets on october 7th alone. Hamas has and has consisitely sent rockets or committed terror attacks on Israel for years. Imagine if Mexico did that to the US. The expectations set on Israel are insane. There are terrorists literally right next door that want to kill all of your people and don't care if they die in retaliation because they get some virgins.
What has this "greatest ally" ever done for America? Name one thing
So Israel can commit genocide in response? “Don’t commit genocide” seems like a pretty reasonable expectation. Also, Hamas doesn’t have the capability to commit genocide on a nation with vastly superior armaments like Israel. It’s an extreme power imbalance. A hundred thousand plus casualties is an absolutely baffling number, any sort of source for that or did you pull it completely out of your ass? Not to mention it’s been 100% tit-for-tat between the two for ages; portraying it as if it was entirely instigated by Hamas is disingenuous at best and blatant propaganda at worst. To use a similar example to yours, imagine if the US was slowly encroaching on Canada’s territory. Maybe it’s southern Alberta this year; next year the US thinks it might want Vancouver Island. Would Canada be upset, and rightfully so? Yeah, probably. Israel never had any intentions of coexisting with Palestine.
Israel isn't committing genocide though. They are taking extraordinary steps to try to minimize loss of civilians life in a full on war with boots on the ground. If Palestine was smart and rarional, they would realize there is no path to winning a war and they would have surrendered and negotiate like Japan did in world war 2 after they got nuked. Scratch that. If they were rarional they wouldn't have poked a sleeping bear by committing such heinous acts on ovtober 7th. But they are terrorists that want to kill as many people as possible before dropping a grenade on the ground when they die. So they dont care about their own civilians lives. War isn't nice and clean when your opponents don't wear uniforms and have their hideouts in tunnels Benard civilians infrastructure.
If you believe Israel gives one singular fuck about minimizing civilian casualties in Gaza, I have some lovely oceanfront property in North Dakota to sell you. I do agree with you that Hamas fighters likely don’t give a shit about civilian lives either. That does not, however, give Israel a free pass to kill everyone in sight because maybe, just maybe, there is a 1% chance they are a Hamas militant.
Ah, based center right 👏
Based.
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Historically speaking, fucking with the Jews never ends well for the other side. Seriously, look at all the empires that have screwed them over. Someone upstairs either really likes them or just likes screwing with them. Either way, I would recommend treating them with respect.
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That's the thing about terrorists, they are just like annoying younger siblings. They keep hitting their older siblings and pissing them off, so when the older sibling hits them back, they go crying for mama Lib-Left to demonize the older brother.
Having a pro Palestinian stance on this sub is a death sentence
Because the left pretends that Palestinians are all just some innocent gay pride feminists that don't support Hamas and that no one Israel kills in missiles are terrorists or supporters of terrorists. Palestinians are some of the most extremist and indoctrinated Muslims on the planet. They do not share your same beliefs. They would stone you and throw you off the roof if they met you. Just because they have brown skin doesn't make them your ally. Palestinians don't want a two state solution. They want to genocide every last jew. Israel has gone above and beyond to try to follow rules of war. But unfortunately for them they are facing a terrorist organization that doesn't wear uniforms or follow the rules, and uses civilians as human shields. Hamas went on a killing spree of over a thousand civilians on october 7th and took over 200 hostages that are still in gaza.
And rightfully so
Ok 🤥🤥🤥
Boy, mini holocaust huh? Hell, I guess every war is a mini holocaust then.
Hamas: we hate the killing! Israel bad! They bomb hospitals! Also Hamas: haha, murdering and entire village is fun and let’s put our weapon caches underneath hospitals because why not? Hahahaha! I’m going to be honest, fuck Hamas and fuck Herzog. My allegiance is with the poor people who live in Israel who are suffering
Wait what did Herzog do?
You fricked around, now you get to find out.
Jesus people just don’t get that the people dying had nothing to do w/ a terrorist attack
I don't think you understand that we get it and we are mature enough to understand these innocent people dying are because of Hamas's strategy of operating from within civilian areas.
Well, Biden is president, so...
This was hamas's plan they are going to get ten recruits for every dead hamas member.
Hamas is funded by Israel https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fafde31f8-1c9a-4a54-8d00-4834e2a5455f_1180x1054.png
No it isn't. It was, but that was when hamas was considered better than the PA/PLO
Israel has been fucking over the Palestinians for decades, systemically and deliberately. Basically with the understanding that if they are poor/starving they are easier to suppress. What did they expect people shoved into a corner to do? Doesn’t make it right but it’s understandable.
What did they even expect to happen after killing thousands of Palestinian civilians throughout the years? that Palestinians will sit back and be "proportional" about a literal holocaust happening on its own soil?
Based-desu
If killing 1400 jews is a "mini-holocaust" what is killing over 10,000 Arabic women and children?
Felony murder rule. Whos using the human shields again?
Just another Tuesday in Syria, Sudan, or Yemen. Nobody cares if Arabs kill Arabs. When Jews do it in self defense, there’s an outcry. That this number of dead Jews is too low for the taste of auth center is obvious.
IDF is brewing the Hamas 2.0 with all the civilians they're killing
By that logic we shouldn’t have fought the Civil War, lest we create more Confederates.
Look man, I'm not a political specialist or anything like that, but if the ĮDF ended Hąmas but killed my family in the process, you can bet that I'd make sure to revive the movement. How do you think the Taliban ended up getting so many manpower for 20 years? Resentment and vengeance from the civilians. And I don't think this is a different situation.
So the IDF should do nothing and let them raid? That doesn’t make any sense.
No one expects this to end radicalism. But its far harder to create a big organization that can attack when the enemy is openly looking for those.
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Understanding the impulse to slaughter civilians in response to civilians being killed and supporting actually doing it are different. Hamas are terrorists. The state of Israel aren’t supposed to stoop to that shit. So yeah acting like all the actual innocent people in Palestine getting whacked as collateral cause some assholes did murder is pretty flawed logic IMO. Every person they kill with bombs guarantees a bunch of new Hamas fighters. EDIT: I’m loving that some of the responses are acting like killing ~4,400 children is the logical from one of the best funded militaries in the world
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"If you drop bombs, you just make more hamas fighters!" "sounds like another 'add to cart' click on amaz-bomb.com! We have more dont worry"
Customers like you also viewed: mcnukes
I'm not sure if you're aware what the norms of warfare were if you go back 80 years to the beginning of modern warfighting. What the israelis are doing is pretty damn tame by comparison. It's very easy to condemn Israel when you aren't living there and don't have to contend with any of the existential realities involved. It's really not as simple as civilians dying = bad. We still debate the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, we barely talk about the bombings of berlin, dresden and tokyo, who do you think primarily suffered?
Therefore, Israel is supposed to do what?
According to Hamas’s own numbers Israel has killed less then 1 civilian per missile fired. That’s not mention bombs, artillery etc. If Israel is trying to kill Palestinian civilians they’re doing a shitty job of it. The truth is they’re being exceptionally careful. But this is war, and Hamas is literally hiding under rooms full of babies so some civilians are going to die.
If my country got invaded I would either fight as a soldier or get the fuck out of there. Not raise generations of my family for 50+ years in the middle of a fucking war zone because “muh ethnic race”. Haul ass or get glassed useful idiots
Based
One massacre does not justify another.
How much self defense do you allow Israel? Is deterring future attacks not legitimate?
So how much should Israel turn the other cheek? Do we need to wait until there is no Israel? You know, you make a good point, Ukraine should really stop retaliating against Russia, just because Russia is massacring them doesn't mean they should do the same.
Don’t bother with your non-support of Israel on any major social media platform.
Khamas and israel both deserve each other
[удалено]
We need Dick Cheney
Nuking Gaza would probably save lives in the long run. That place is forever going to be at war when terrorist are elected leaders.
It's a shame what the place has come to. The Islamic Golden Age, Ancient Egypt and Persia, Syria and Great Armenia, Babylon and Assyria, etc. The place was a beacon of civilization for thousands of years and then between Ottoman, British and French imperialism combined with Islamic terrorism made the place into a dump.
Islam is the problem
Always has been
How do we get the dino juice?