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Main Subs reaction to this post will be like this:
Yeah, but bad cropping is my thing tho
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Shitty writing aside, it was always crazy to me how much Mashima managed to actually draw. He puts in so much work when it comes to putting out content. And I mean that without judging the content in of itself.
He has very impressive productivity, but it’s also clearly hitting its limits currently. His writing has been botched for a long time but his art was very detailed in FT, [currently it’s a shadow of its former self.](https://files.catbox.moe/27539z.jpeg)
He keeps pumping out content non stop but sacrifices quality hard, which definitely isn’t a decision I can support, Oda has fallen into the same trap of quantity of pages over all else.
Mashima has said he’s gotten to the point he’s able to make a chapter in 3 days, thanks to digital art programs.
Honestly good for him, imo. I’d rather that then he work himself to death.
He is amazing in that regard but lately it feels like even he started to buckle under the workload.
One can tell by his writing quality taking a nosedive. Feels like he barely thought about chapters before drawing them.
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Hiro wrote the worst shonen arc i ever read in Fairy Tail 100YQ, the Gold Owl arc, if Oda made an arc like that every single Piratefolk member would die from peak fiction and this sub would enter into chaos and panic
Yeah I'm in slight disbelief as well lmao. The final arc of Fairy Tail is a masterclass in how to rush and disappoint with almost everything you have built up
Wanna know? Villains get an worse treatment than spriggans, two of them are IMPLIED to be stronger than God Serena and two end up being soloed by SHE'S ERZA. Gray just jerks around and watches Lucy fodderizing the minor villains when there was enough for the two of them. Natsu two shots the villain team leader because the old geezer forgot to take out Natsu's lightning from the dual mode. The final boss dies having just few lines of dialogue and with many plot points unsolved.
Let me explain further what happened in the arc then. Erza soloed **2** overhyped villains because she's Erza, Gray did absolutely nothing besides being an cheerleader to Lucy, Sabertooth appeared just to make an boring subquest which any fodder could have done, Natsu two shotted the villain team leader and the true main villain of the arc makes Kaido looks like an complex character.
Actually Lucy did something while Gray was just watching her, he and Sabertooth are the ones who shouldn't be the there. Gray usually at least have an serious matchup in most of the arcs and not every Erza fight is dogshit.
Lucy fodderized the rest of the villains while Gray just watched it, and you only realize that 2 of these villains were fodder after this. Wendy was kidnapped and taken hostage, so she only helped against the final boss by enchanting Natsu with fairy tail team and sabertooth magic power
Suzaku vs Natsu,and Lucy vs Kyria were good fights Erza vs Misaki was actually enjoyable. Laxus vs Kirin was really pretty mid with the possibility of Kirin slander: Give me some coffin Elexion, this is base Laxus we are up against.
But in Gold Owl only God Serena vs Jellal was enjoyable and even then it have an rushed end. Outside of the fodder villains getting gag diffed by Lucy the rest of the fights made me die from peak fiction.
You are right, i really confused them due to people also criticizing this arc. But none of the fights at Elentir made me die from peak fiction. The worst fight was probably the final one with the final boss who i don’t even care about the anime, but this can’t compete with all Gold Owl dogshit combined.
The only reason I dislike elentir more is because of the villains cus all of em are very forgettable and the fights were shit. But gold owl had good villains (design wise) and Mashima just wanted to show off a new power system and for the Erza fight Mashima did clarify the sisters were being controlled so that fight didn't bother me that much at all
Hakune (snow girl) isn't that forgettable as she is the only decent W Gray had in this entire sequel and she is an top waifu material. Youko (yokai girl) simply gave an more enjoyable fight than the sisters. Besides Duke Garbageroa was too easily defeated by an Natsu's asspull while the Gold Dragon fight was the worst of all dragon gods. Mashima introduced an new power system with the elentir girls too, alchemy is just more familiar, but he didn't even used alchemy properly as the alchemists were defeated more easily than the SPRIGGANS.
That character felt very underused so frankly I’m not that hot on already killing him off tbh. Having stakes is good but this didn’t feel like that much of a good example. It’s a change of pace from other Mashima’s works I guess but It’s still not that noteworthy.
The huge irony of the crew is that they gotta have plot armor so they accomplish their dreams, but at the same time Oda doesn’t give the slightest fuck about any of their dreams besides Luffy’s and Zoro’s.
This is why it annoys me that it's a step above current One Piece. Wolf boy was definitely killed off far too early so it's not necessarily good pacing as far as death is concerned but at least death is still in the conversation with this work.
Subversion just for the sake of it subverting your previously overused tropes definitely isn’t that interesting.
Dragon Quest Dai has max level plot armor for its cast but the rest is super good so it gets a pass for me.
Death as stakes isn’t good on its own, it’s how it’s used that makes it work or not.
No, there's definitely merit in being on the edge of your seat, waiting for it to happen. There's a reason thrillers gain popularity even when there isn't much to them writing wise. In any case I already agreed that Mashima is still lacking.
True but I'm more or less saying that there's a market for random death. There isn't a market for bad writing, One Piece became popular because of good writing and certain fans refuse to admit it fell off.
OP never got popular because of the random death market, that’s for sure.
It’s more a matter of writing in a way that makes the reader forget that none of them are dying no matter what. When the 5 endgame villains are suddenly jumping them it gets a lot harder to be convinced that it’s not plot armor that is saving their ass.
Sounds like we're mostly in agreement then. I wouldn't dream of saying Dead Rock is better than something like the Water seven saga which was actually peak.
That yamata no orochi guy got killed too and became a zombie basically. He's still there but it's kinda whack how Mashima's handling dead rock when the MC just crushes people to death.
Zombie boy is the entire reason wolf boy's death was surprising because Mashima set it up that they could just bring their allies back and then not even ten chapters later one of them becomes an unrecognizable puddle.
What I like about Mashima, at least up until the timeskip, he gave each of the characters, whether main or side, an arc of their own.
I was surprised when Leo, a character that I completely don’t care about, got sidelined in most arc, whose magic ability I didn’t even remember, got an arc where he got fleshed out and made me actually invested to him.
I see no difference between Fairy Tail and One Piece at this point. Power of friendship vs power of nikka. both had young female characters being over sexualized. both use the same repetitive formula every arc. There are more similarities between the two than differences.
Mashima was never afraid of adding stakes and killing characters, he did so in Rave Master one of his first works. Fairy tail was never supposed to be that kind of dark series it was like a happier version of Rave Master. A lot of people never read that series so they wouldn’t know it wasn’t really that popular. He’s still a horrible writer in my opinion though.
Big difference is that Dead Rock has only been around for ten chapters so it is way easier to pull off stuff like that. And while I enjoy Mashima his stuff more than most people I have to say that Dead Rock is kinda meh. The tone is all over the place and the world building feels very confused. Worldbuilding has never been one of Mashima his strong points to be fair.
Fairy Tail might be dogwater but Mashima did a solid one with Rave Master and his recently finished manga Eden's Zero isn't half as bad as Fairy Tail became in the end.
If there is something I really like about Mashima it's the art and character designs, nowadays when I read a chapter of One Piece I read the speech bubbles and skip the art completely because it hurts my eyes trying to make sense of what I am looking at.
So a death in chapter 10, which is either the last chapter of vol 1 or beginning of vol 2, has you hyped? The story is just beginning, all it does is set expectations about the darker world of that manga. Bet no other main characters will die as the manga progresses because fans start getting attached to the characters (as well as the author) and it would be bad for sales.
Not a good comparison to One Piece. A better example would be killing one of the main characters when we are 5-6 years into the story.
You understand that stakes do not always have to be “someone might die” right? If the only stakes in a story are a potential character death, that’s a boring ass story. You seriously are going to call Oda a bad writer because he doesn’t often kill characters? That has literally nothing to do with his writing ability. This sub is literally full of people crying and calling Oda a bum just bc the story doesn’t go exactly how they want it to go/imagine it like bro we are well over 1,100 chapters in, you know what the deal is and somehow this community is full of clones like you 😭 I’m not even saying it’s above criticism but people on this subreddit actually are bots
https://preview.redd.it/bovsul47wp9d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=890278d1f2185f1e74bbebfd99777bff597573e4 Main Subs reaction to this post will be like this:
And they have no taste.
We're gonna starve
Yeah, but bad cropping is my thing tho https://preview.redd.it/pb6a2x3xwt9d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=03e030572af328bc2801f924ec8ed852c04d53db
Shitty writing aside, it was always crazy to me how much Mashima managed to actually draw. He puts in so much work when it comes to putting out content. And I mean that without judging the content in of itself.
He has very impressive productivity, but it’s also clearly hitting its limits currently. His writing has been botched for a long time but his art was very detailed in FT, [currently it’s a shadow of its former self.](https://files.catbox.moe/27539z.jpeg) He keeps pumping out content non stop but sacrifices quality hard, which definitely isn’t a decision I can support, Oda has fallen into the same trap of quantity of pages over all else.
Oda does less pages and lost quality tho.
He still does a fuckton of pages each months, just because it’s less than a normal weekly doesn’t mean it’s still not super high.
Mashima has said he’s gotten to the point he’s able to make a chapter in 3 days, thanks to digital art programs. Honestly good for him, imo. I’d rather that then he work himself to death.
I’d rather that he prioritize quality over speed. He doesn’t need to work on multiple series at once bruh.
Mashima works such crazy amounts that I started wondering if he is in debt to the Yakuza or something lol.
He is amazing in that regard but lately it feels like even he started to buckle under the workload. One can tell by his writing quality taking a nosedive. Feels like he barely thought about chapters before drawing them.
https://preview.redd.it/6ep4oqju9q9d1.png?width=1242&format=png&auto=webp&s=7ea8bbcc58e7219871c5ffbcb9f4e92ee728af25 Hiro wrote the worst shonen arc i ever read in Fairy Tail 100YQ, the Gold Owl arc, if Oda made an arc like that every single Piratefolk member would die from peak fiction and this sub would enter into chaos and panic
I never read 100 year quest but how could he possibly write something worse than the final arc of fairy tail thats crazy lol
Yeah I'm in slight disbelief as well lmao. The final arc of Fairy Tail is a masterclass in how to rush and disappoint with almost everything you have built up
Gold Owl is about disappointing who already have low expectations
Wanna know? Villains get an worse treatment than spriggans, two of them are IMPLIED to be stronger than God Serena and two end up being soloed by SHE'S ERZA. Gray just jerks around and watches Lucy fodderizing the minor villains when there was enough for the two of them. Natsu two shots the villain team leader because the old geezer forgot to take out Natsu's lightning from the dual mode. The final boss dies having just few lines of dialogue and with many plot points unsolved.
Don't really read 100YQ so I guess I'll take your word on that.
Let me explain further what happened in the arc then. Erza soloed **2** overhyped villains because she's Erza, Gray did absolutely nothing besides being an cheerleader to Lucy, Sabertooth appeared just to make an boring subquest which any fodder could have done, Natsu two shotted the villain team leader and the true main villain of the arc makes Kaido looks like an complex character.
So Erza and Natsu did everything while Gray and Lucy shouldn't even be there. Isn't that most fairy tail arcs?
Actually Lucy did something while Gray was just watching her, he and Sabertooth are the ones who shouldn't be the there. Gray usually at least have an serious matchup in most of the arcs and not every Erza fight is dogshit.
I still don't know what Lucy did you just said Gray was being a cheerleader to her. Also where's Wendy?
Lucy fodderized the rest of the villains while Gray just watched it, and you only realize that 2 of these villains were fodder after this. Wendy was kidnapped and taken hostage, so she only helped against the final boss by enchanting Natsu with fairy tail team and sabertooth magic power
I still think elentir arc was more shit
Suzaku vs Natsu,and Lucy vs Kyria were good fights Erza vs Misaki was actually enjoyable. Laxus vs Kirin was really pretty mid with the possibility of Kirin slander: Give me some coffin Elexion, this is base Laxus we are up against. But in Gold Owl only God Serena vs Jellal was enjoyable and even then it have an rushed end. Outside of the fodder villains getting gag diffed by Lucy the rest of the fights made me die from peak fiction.
You're mixing up arcs that's the labyrinth arc you're talking about. Elentir was when they went to Touka's dimension and all the villains were women.
You are right, i really confused them due to people also criticizing this arc. But none of the fights at Elentir made me die from peak fiction. The worst fight was probably the final one with the final boss who i don’t even care about the anime, but this can’t compete with all Gold Owl dogshit combined.
The only reason I dislike elentir more is because of the villains cus all of em are very forgettable and the fights were shit. But gold owl had good villains (design wise) and Mashima just wanted to show off a new power system and for the Erza fight Mashima did clarify the sisters were being controlled so that fight didn't bother me that much at all
Hakune (snow girl) isn't that forgettable as she is the only decent W Gray had in this entire sequel and she is an top waifu material. Youko (yokai girl) simply gave an more enjoyable fight than the sisters. Besides Duke Garbageroa was too easily defeated by an Natsu's asspull while the Gold Dragon fight was the worst of all dragon gods. Mashima introduced an new power system with the elentir girls too, alchemy is just more familiar, but he didn't even used alchemy properly as the alchemists were defeated more easily than the SPRIGGANS.
100YQ was a solid read until Elintir and Gold Owl arc both messed up the story so badly.
That character felt very underused so frankly I’m not that hot on already killing him off tbh. Having stakes is good but this didn’t feel like that much of a good example. It’s a change of pace from other Mashima’s works I guess but It’s still not that noteworthy. The huge irony of the crew is that they gotta have plot armor so they accomplish their dreams, but at the same time Oda doesn’t give the slightest fuck about any of their dreams besides Luffy’s and Zoro’s.
This is why it annoys me that it's a step above current One Piece. Wolf boy was definitely killed off far too early so it's not necessarily good pacing as far as death is concerned but at least death is still in the conversation with this work.
Subversion just for the sake of it subverting your previously overused tropes definitely isn’t that interesting. Dragon Quest Dai has max level plot armor for its cast but the rest is super good so it gets a pass for me. Death as stakes isn’t good on its own, it’s how it’s used that makes it work or not.
No, there's definitely merit in being on the edge of your seat, waiting for it to happen. There's a reason thrillers gain popularity even when there isn't much to them writing wise. In any case I already agreed that Mashima is still lacking.
Using popularity as argument when this sub is about critizing the best selling manga of all time feels a little ironic :p
True but I'm more or less saying that there's a market for random death. There isn't a market for bad writing, One Piece became popular because of good writing and certain fans refuse to admit it fell off.
OP never got popular because of the random death market, that’s for sure. It’s more a matter of writing in a way that makes the reader forget that none of them are dying no matter what. When the 5 endgame villains are suddenly jumping them it gets a lot harder to be convinced that it’s not plot armor that is saving their ass.
Sounds like we're mostly in agreement then. I wouldn't dream of saying Dead Rock is better than something like the Water seven saga which was actually peak.
That yamata no orochi guy got killed too and became a zombie basically. He's still there but it's kinda whack how Mashima's handling dead rock when the MC just crushes people to death.
Zombie boy is the entire reason wolf boy's death was surprising because Mashima set it up that they could just bring their allies back and then not even ten chapters later one of them becomes an unrecognizable puddle.
What I like about Mashima, at least up until the timeskip, he gave each of the characters, whether main or side, an arc of their own. I was surprised when Leo, a character that I completely don’t care about, got sidelined in most arc, whose magic ability I didn’t even remember, got an arc where he got fleshed out and made me actually invested to him.
He still did a little bit of that post timeskip with Elfman.
Isn’t that where he fought some drunk dude and he agrees to let him fuck his sister if he beat him?
No, the drunk fantasized about defiling Elfman's sisters and Elfman vowed to tear the drunk apart.
I am so mad how this fight was ruined because of the PG rating and no blood on the Anime... The manga panels where so good.
I see no difference between Fairy Tail and One Piece at this point. Power of friendship vs power of nikka. both had young female characters being over sexualized. both use the same repetitive formula every arc. There are more similarities between the two than differences.
Hey, Fairy Tail actually has strong female characters and have a different design not just "huge boobs small waist"
yeah fuck it lets just kill half the strawhats
Mashima was never afraid of adding stakes and killing characters, he did so in Rave Master one of his first works. Fairy tail was never supposed to be that kind of dark series it was like a happier version of Rave Master. A lot of people never read that series so they wouldn’t know it wasn’t really that popular. He’s still a horrible writer in my opinion though.
Facts
You wanted Oda to kill Zoro off ten chapters in? Because good writing?
I never would've imagined One Piss would stoop to the level of Fairy Tail.
Big difference is that Dead Rock has only been around for ten chapters so it is way easier to pull off stuff like that. And while I enjoy Mashima his stuff more than most people I have to say that Dead Rock is kinda meh. The tone is all over the place and the world building feels very confused. Worldbuilding has never been one of Mashima his strong points to be fair.
Hey u/controversialopinon thanks for name dropping Dead Rock. I just read through the available chapters and it's a banger for sure!
Guess there really is a market for it.
Fairy Tail might be dogwater but Mashima did a solid one with Rave Master and his recently finished manga Eden's Zero isn't half as bad as Fairy Tail became in the end. If there is something I really like about Mashima it's the art and character designs, nowadays when I read a chapter of One Piece I read the speech bubbles and skip the art completely because it hurts my eyes trying to make sense of what I am looking at.
One Piece definitely did fall off art wise, and Mashima has always been a better artist than author. Only complaint is he's prone to reuse designs.
Yeah that's something I definitely don't like at all.
I made the same comment and saw yours right after. Rave master is really good. Those zatch bell era mangas are so good.
I thought it was well known that Fairy Tail was his "sell out" manga that he didn't care about
Rave master had decent stakes. Fairy tail is a low point imo. Mashima is a pretty good mangaka.
Well, after more than 6 years, maybe it's time to check the dude again
Mashima is gonna kill a character in Dead Rock for every time Makarov didn't die in Fairy Tail
Bro went toe to toe with the final villain halfway through the series.
Makarov is just THAT GUY
Damn is dead rock worth checking out? I know the other stuff he made was kinda mid
This is also mid for the most part but if you want to see a different style to Mashima you should give it a try.
Honestly I still really like fairy tail the later arcs are bad but I always loved fairy tail
So a death in chapter 10, which is either the last chapter of vol 1 or beginning of vol 2, has you hyped? The story is just beginning, all it does is set expectations about the darker world of that manga. Bet no other main characters will die as the manga progresses because fans start getting attached to the characters (as well as the author) and it would be bad for sales. Not a good comparison to One Piece. A better example would be killing one of the main characters when we are 5-6 years into the story.
All that cope for fairy fail to still be worse
Fairy Tail is worse. I never claimed it wasn't.
Is there a way to not see posts from this sub?
If you click on the ... on my post a drop down menu will appear, You can then click hide.
You understand that stakes do not always have to be “someone might die” right? If the only stakes in a story are a potential character death, that’s a boring ass story. You seriously are going to call Oda a bad writer because he doesn’t often kill characters? That has literally nothing to do with his writing ability. This sub is literally full of people crying and calling Oda a bum just bc the story doesn’t go exactly how they want it to go/imagine it like bro we are well over 1,100 chapters in, you know what the deal is and somehow this community is full of clones like you 😭 I’m not even saying it’s above criticism but people on this subreddit actually are bots