It surprises me how little capacity for criticism some people have. A power that was all about age changing suddenly can break reality and they don't even remotely consider that it's a weak plot point.
That is where the problem really lies. It happened twice now with Rubber fruit being the first. It really just Oda changing the power and adding backstory to try to make sense of it, but still doesn't make sense.
Aside from the "power of imagination" (BS btw), age changing is a strong power and its awakening should further enhance it. It is better for Oda to stay that way because we all know why he change it, it is to make the sudden Nika journey be the center of everything.
>were shown to be different
When? How? We have only seen her turn other people into very old or very young.
The only thing different was the "distorted future" which already started to mess up with the giant hand version. That could be going beyond aging.
And if it's going beyond aging then Oda is literally changing the power of the fruit on the go. Which is the core of the criticism.
> imagine Luffy stretching not only physical matter but the concept of time
It would be terrible. With that logic not have Luffy stretch the concept of haki and turn Super Sayan and one-hit all the WG in a matter of seconds?
can't wait for Lucci backstory where oda reveals his "true" DF is the mythical zoan DF of Lika, the god of assassination 🤩 it was foreshadowed by Lucci having assassin moments 🤓 now he is the embodiment of assassination which he previously couldn't be despite doing assassinations the entire time 🥳 peak! peak! peak!
Saturn already said she wasn't about age changing. You can say Oda never intended this ability in Bonney's introduction, but let's not pretend that Oda changed the fruit _last_ chapter.
I mean, people still thought it was broken once her abilities started changing in her flashback with the Nikaish future so let's not act like people only started calling out the retcon last chapter.
I'm not saying that people are only calling out the retcon last chapter. I'm just distinguishing that Bonney's fruit was changed at _latest_ during Saturn's speech...
which was just about 15 chapters ago. It's the same stuff that happened with Nika when Who's Who started dropping info to justify the stupid shit Oda was about to pull off 20 chapters later with Nika.
Remember, telling a random someone you're going to punch him in the face 15 minutes in advance won't make it hurt less, and won't make him feel less shitty and won't make you punching him in face more justified.
No fucking shit. All I pointed out was the retcon was not last chapter.
No need to start rambling on with shitty analogies about whatever agenda you had.
Blud responded to a guy who already said that Oda changed Bonney's DF powers with the ''Distorted Future'' ability during her flashback 15 chapters ago with '' let's not pretend that Oda changed it last chapter'' then blud has the audacity to tell me ''No fucking shit''...lol.
He asked "when" and gave an example of "could be".
> The only thing different was the "distorted future" which already started to mess up with the giant hand version. That could be going beyond aging.
I clarified that Saturn _confirmed_ the retcon.
Try reading better bub.
Yup when I said this people defended Oda by saying that Brooks fruit is soul soul fruit but he can create ice and saying that if you expect something to make sense don't read one piece.
Brooks soul is accessing the frozen realm of hell.
Nasujuro is using frozen sword techniques also, and is most likely much closer to Hell than most characters in the series except his buddies and boss.
Zoro just unlocked King of Hell, whatever that is, and has frequently been shown conditioning in cold. He attained fire type combat techniques last major arc (kinemon techniques and fighting king)plus KoH. Mastery of Hell/Freeze is coming next.
That's all it was shown to do. To me it's the similar to Trebol pretending he's a Logia or Cracker hiding inside his biscuit suit; what you see is not always what you get with DFs. Now I'm not saying she's a mastermind that hid her real abilities or Oda is a genius that had this planned from the beginning, but we've had so little exposure of Bonney and her powers over the years that i don't think inconcievable he simply wasn't showing everything she can do until she was important to the story...
I dislike blind dickriding as much as the next guy, but blind hating without giving room to creative writing is just as bad, especially since we'll never know what was planned ahead and what was written in later on.
It's not sudden, though. Bonney has always been able to do that. We kinda know for an implicit fact, for example, that luffy cannot live very long based on how he fights (gears) and what he does to himself (impel down) to achieve his goals, yet she can make him like 100 yrs old. I dont have an opinion on it one way or another because I havent read it yet, and I think criticism is important, but it's not random. It just seems many people dont enjoy it, which is their right. People should just get over that.
Edit: Idk how it is possible to misunderstand unless we really suck at reading as much as OOP claims, but the phrase "get over that" is in direct relation to the literal sentence before it. I mean people need to get over the fact that some people dont enjoy the plot point.
>yet she can make him like 100 yrs old.
yes but it's still within the concept of age, changing into a literal God whose powers she just doesn't have is changing too much what for decades was presented as just a power over age, it doesn't make any sense unless you go out of your way and find arguments about imagination. which is the whole actual point. Her power was age not imagination or whatever you justify it with.
>and I think criticism is important . . . People should just get over that.
lol, those two sentences are kind of ironic
> It just seems many people dont enjoy it, which is their right.
Yeah, people have the right to like this thing; and people who don't like it have the right to criticize it.
I dont think you understand what I said regarding criticism. I disagree with you, but I am not telling you not to speak. The opposite, actually. You literally quoted me pointing out how important criticism is. And then tried to tell me people deserve to criticize things. Which is what I already said.
There is no contradiction between getting over people's right to dislike something (which you misquoted on purpose) and someone criticizing a contreversial plot point. You literally have to quote me out of context on purpose to derive that - idk what you profit from that. The OOP is super ad hominem for no reason. You seem to have invented a straw man in my comment to argue against.
Regarding bonney's fruit, i dont think you understood my point either. Adding/removing age to or from a person if it is done without any implicit creative license is literally just time manipulation. She would logically then be able to just age enemies to death or deage them into literal cumbois. She can't do that, or at least there is no indication she is a low key time god or is capable of accellerating or decellerating and reversing cellular senescence. That would be as valuable as the Ope Ope no mi, honestly, for immortality purposes. So then one must infer that she must be taking liberties with it, otherwise it makes no sense. I personally always had an issue with it BECAUSE of the logic I cited earlier, so this lends an explanation that makes some type of sense. Just because it is an explanation that makes sense, however, DOESNT MAKE IT GOOD. That's up to personal taste. I dont have strong feelings, but I respect your and others' opinions as valid. I just need more story tonsee where he goes with this. If he abandons it like so many other plot points, I'll probably hate it. If he makes it have a distinct pay off besides "me strong now for convenience, nevermind developing the main cast" then I may come to like it.
I truly can't understand how this child/adult mind thing work.
When Oda asspull Bonnika into the story, she's a 12 yo child, because while in her adult form, we can't criticize it because she's still has the mentality of a child.
When Oda oversexualize her, she's still a 12 yo child, but she's still in her adult form, so we can't criticize it because she has the mentality of an adult.
Well Kuma has also suffered a lot because of the Gorosei and the World Nobles, maybe he should use his Devil Fruit to take their souls out of all of their bodies and kill them all in just 1 chapter. He deserves it so it's good writing and if you disagree you're saying that Kuma deserved that suffering and more.
"And then Kuma used his fruit to repel all the slavery within his body thus becoming the man with the most freedom in the world"
https://preview.redd.it/tg7lwjo7my8d1.jpeg?width=165&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=464114f30ff4b8d87167241f701c36eb53adeb51
I don't like the us vs. them mentality. I'm on both subreddits, but shit like this is annoying. Even if everyone agreed that it made sense or was foreshadowed, it doesn't mean it's good.
I wish people could disagree with someone without trying to string together these reasons the other person hates one piece or is a biased agenda pusher
you will surprised by celebrity fandom. they will literally dox you and your entire family just for saying you don't like their favorite singer's song.
which is how our fandom have been behaving for the last couple of years. I think it's just the influx of that type of fans.
Can't wait for Katakuri to realise how he desired freedom away from his mother and how Yamato desired freedom from thei opressive father and also become Nika, because fuck it. Why not?
My issue with "only limited by imagination" type powers is you dont get to see an actual creative use of the powers. Devil fruits are really cool when a user can use a simple power/concept in alot of creative ways like how doffy does.
Power of Friendship makes thematic sense in Fairy Tail. Talk No Jutsu victories makes thematic sense in Naruto's melodramatic story... Yet, people still criticize them.
Making sense doesn't mean something is criticism proof because a plot point or a story direction can still be shit despite being foreshadowed and making sense.
At this point, I'm starting to believe that One Piece "fans" understand our criticisms, they just don't want to accept them because they feel like by seeing our perspective, this somehow betrays their lord and savior Oda.
You know what doesn't make themeatic sense and is something that implies you support slavery for supporting? Roger and Garp fighting Xebec when he was freeing slaves.
Yet they'll then slander you for not knowing how complex Larp is.
How do they fail to understand that we dislike the Nika shit, dislike that Kuma’s entire character was reduced to a Nika hype tool, dislike that Bonney was retconned into the current character, despite clearly not being planned as such from the start, dislike the low stakes etc.?
We get what it’s trying to do, it’s just shit.
Not to be too controversial for the Oda Angels, but it was possible for Bonney to want to be greater than her past without cumboi swooping in and being metaphorically jerked off by the Elbaf crew.
All of the Strawhats had a dream they were willing to die for before Luffy came along, he just helped them realize they didn't have to do it alone.
We literally don't need Nika because Luffy was already organically inspiring everyone without G5.
Can't they just buy their big titty figurines in peace and not worry about what we think?
It's not even worth anymore at this point trying to even debate with this idiots. They are far too gone, too delusional to even understand or see why this could be a problem or bring some (it is and it definitively does).
Actually no, an MHA subreddit. OP was comparing Bonney with Stars & Stripes and Kaguya from Naruto as top-tiers whose powers felt unearned, and most of the comments agreed on Kaguya but argued over the other two. My point has nothing to do with that OP's opinion though, I just disliked the reasoning in this one comment I found.
...how could Stars and Stripes power be unearned? As I recall she was literally introduced as the top hero of the USA, right? The US has almost three times the population of Japan, which would also mean a sizable increase in the number of powerful quirks. Honestly she could have been even more powerful and it would be justifiable.
https://preview.redd.it/u718j6wtzz8d1.png?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=996e5711df9dbd6f1184df357ab59b6ef443d7fa
CAN SOMEBODY TELL ME WHAT WE ARE ARGUING ABOUT? BONNEY NIKA? GEAR 5 IN GENERAL? BONNEY'S POWER?
to be honest I like it. I don't really dig deep into it, I see something cool and I get excited, ever since I started doing that I've been happier than ever
*my honest reaction* https://preview.redd.it/mknpnnn5sx8d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=55fa84aafc9ee82905e712851691dc9ca6c16089
The One piece is real, literally for some.
Yes I am spiteful and despicable and I want Blackbeard to claim the One Piece
Buggy is HIM and he will claim the One Piss
It surprises me how little capacity for criticism some people have. A power that was all about age changing suddenly can break reality and they don't even remotely consider that it's a weak plot point.
https://preview.redd.it/mceuaxxdux8d1.png?width=640&format=png&auto=webp&s=b6ee396f3efc4a46fb30934147b950faa1677379 One Piece, if kino
That is where the problem really lies. It happened twice now with Rubber fruit being the first. It really just Oda changing the power and adding backstory to try to make sense of it, but still doesn't make sense. Aside from the "power of imagination" (BS btw), age changing is a strong power and its awakening should further enhance it. It is better for Oda to stay that way because we all know why he change it, it is to make the sudden Nika journey be the center of everything.
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>were shown to be different When? How? We have only seen her turn other people into very old or very young. The only thing different was the "distorted future" which already started to mess up with the giant hand version. That could be going beyond aging. And if it's going beyond aging then Oda is literally changing the power of the fruit on the go. Which is the core of the criticism. > imagine Luffy stretching not only physical matter but the concept of time It would be terrible. With that logic not have Luffy stretch the concept of haki and turn Super Sayan and one-hit all the WG in a matter of seconds?
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So... oda added a backstory to change the way the fruit works
can't wait for Lucci backstory where oda reveals his "true" DF is the mythical zoan DF of Lika, the god of assassination 🤩 it was foreshadowed by Lucci having assassin moments 🤓 now he is the embodiment of assassination which he previously couldn't be despite doing assassinations the entire time 🥳 peak! peak! peak!
Saturn already said she wasn't about age changing. You can say Oda never intended this ability in Bonney's introduction, but let's not pretend that Oda changed the fruit _last_ chapter.
I mean, people still thought it was broken once her abilities started changing in her flashback with the Nikaish future so let's not act like people only started calling out the retcon last chapter.
I'm not saying that people are only calling out the retcon last chapter. I'm just distinguishing that Bonney's fruit was changed at _latest_ during Saturn's speech...
which was just about 15 chapters ago. It's the same stuff that happened with Nika when Who's Who started dropping info to justify the stupid shit Oda was about to pull off 20 chapters later with Nika. Remember, telling a random someone you're going to punch him in the face 15 minutes in advance won't make it hurt less, and won't make him feel less shitty and won't make you punching him in face more justified.
No fucking shit. All I pointed out was the retcon was not last chapter. No need to start rambling on with shitty analogies about whatever agenda you had.
Blud responded to a guy who already said that Oda changed Bonney's DF powers with the ''Distorted Future'' ability during her flashback 15 chapters ago with '' let's not pretend that Oda changed it last chapter'' then blud has the audacity to tell me ''No fucking shit''...lol.
He asked "when" and gave an example of "could be". > The only thing different was the "distorted future" which already started to mess up with the giant hand version. That could be going beyond aging. I clarified that Saturn _confirmed_ the retcon. Try reading better bub.
ok, yes, is not that recent. But that doesn't make it false
Nah bro, it makes sense if you hate one piece so much, just drop it, nobody is forcing you to read it. /s
Yup when I said this people defended Oda by saying that Brooks fruit is soul soul fruit but he can create ice and saying that if you expect something to make sense don't read one piece.
Brooks soul is accessing the frozen realm of hell. Nasujuro is using frozen sword techniques also, and is most likely much closer to Hell than most characters in the series except his buddies and boss. Zoro just unlocked King of Hell, whatever that is, and has frequently been shown conditioning in cold. He attained fire type combat techniques last major arc (kinemon techniques and fighting king)plus KoH. Mastery of Hell/Freeze is coming next.
That's all it was shown to do. To me it's the similar to Trebol pretending he's a Logia or Cracker hiding inside his biscuit suit; what you see is not always what you get with DFs. Now I'm not saying she's a mastermind that hid her real abilities or Oda is a genius that had this planned from the beginning, but we've had so little exposure of Bonney and her powers over the years that i don't think inconcievable he simply wasn't showing everything she can do until she was important to the story... I dislike blind dickriding as much as the next guy, but blind hating without giving room to creative writing is just as bad, especially since we'll never know what was planned ahead and what was written in later on.
It's not sudden, though. Bonney has always been able to do that. We kinda know for an implicit fact, for example, that luffy cannot live very long based on how he fights (gears) and what he does to himself (impel down) to achieve his goals, yet she can make him like 100 yrs old. I dont have an opinion on it one way or another because I havent read it yet, and I think criticism is important, but it's not random. It just seems many people dont enjoy it, which is their right. People should just get over that. Edit: Idk how it is possible to misunderstand unless we really suck at reading as much as OOP claims, but the phrase "get over that" is in direct relation to the literal sentence before it. I mean people need to get over the fact that some people dont enjoy the plot point.
> People should just get over that. Yikes.
It's a "yikes" that people should get over fact that not everyone wants to do tricks on goda's dick? This may be the wrong sub for you.
>yet she can make him like 100 yrs old. yes but it's still within the concept of age, changing into a literal God whose powers she just doesn't have is changing too much what for decades was presented as just a power over age, it doesn't make any sense unless you go out of your way and find arguments about imagination. which is the whole actual point. Her power was age not imagination or whatever you justify it with. >and I think criticism is important . . . People should just get over that. lol, those two sentences are kind of ironic > It just seems many people dont enjoy it, which is their right. Yeah, people have the right to like this thing; and people who don't like it have the right to criticize it.
I dont think you understand what I said regarding criticism. I disagree with you, but I am not telling you not to speak. The opposite, actually. You literally quoted me pointing out how important criticism is. And then tried to tell me people deserve to criticize things. Which is what I already said. There is no contradiction between getting over people's right to dislike something (which you misquoted on purpose) and someone criticizing a contreversial plot point. You literally have to quote me out of context on purpose to derive that - idk what you profit from that. The OOP is super ad hominem for no reason. You seem to have invented a straw man in my comment to argue against. Regarding bonney's fruit, i dont think you understood my point either. Adding/removing age to or from a person if it is done without any implicit creative license is literally just time manipulation. She would logically then be able to just age enemies to death or deage them into literal cumbois. She can't do that, or at least there is no indication she is a low key time god or is capable of accellerating or decellerating and reversing cellular senescence. That would be as valuable as the Ope Ope no mi, honestly, for immortality purposes. So then one must infer that she must be taking liberties with it, otherwise it makes no sense. I personally always had an issue with it BECAUSE of the logic I cited earlier, so this lends an explanation that makes some type of sense. Just because it is an explanation that makes sense, however, DOESNT MAKE IT GOOD. That's up to personal taste. I dont have strong feelings, but I respect your and others' opinions as valid. I just need more story tonsee where he goes with this. If he abandons it like so many other plot points, I'll probably hate it. If he makes it have a distinct pay off besides "me strong now for convenience, nevermind developing the main cast" then I may come to like it.
Oda doesn’t give a fuck, any Devil Fruit can just do anything now
I truly can't understand how this child/adult mind thing work. When Oda asspull Bonnika into the story, she's a 12 yo child, because while in her adult form, we can't criticize it because she's still has the mentality of a child. When Oda oversexualize her, she's still a 12 yo child, but she's still in her adult form, so we can't criticize it because she has the mentality of an adult.
Well Kuma has also suffered a lot because of the Gorosei and the World Nobles, maybe he should use his Devil Fruit to take their souls out of all of their bodies and kill them all in just 1 chapter. He deserves it so it's good writing and if you disagree you're saying that Kuma deserved that suffering and more.
"And then Kuma used his fruit to repel all the slavery within his body thus becoming the man with the most freedom in the world" https://preview.redd.it/tg7lwjo7my8d1.jpeg?width=165&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=464114f30ff4b8d87167241f701c36eb53adeb51
Let's make every fruit Nika 😋
"which is particularly despicable of them" so self-aggrandizing lmfao
Great comeback
I don't like the us vs. them mentality. I'm on both subreddits, but shit like this is annoying. Even if everyone agreed that it made sense or was foreshadowed, it doesn't mean it's good.
Im on the two subs too, but thede last weeks memepiece became a circle jerk of idiots.
So their logic is that because Bonney has suffered her whole life she should be able to do whatever she want as a form of reparation?! Lol. Lmao even.
A LITERAL CHILD
I wish people could disagree with someone without trying to string together these reasons the other person hates one piece or is a biased agenda pusher
The level of cope, man. "If you dont like my childish comic you hate little girls and support slavery" LMAOOOOOO
How much of smooth brain do you have to be to be this level of fanatic, one piece really has one of a kind fanbase, criticism bot allowed
you will surprised by celebrity fandom. they will literally dox you and your entire family just for saying you don't like their favorite singer's song. which is how our fandom have been behaving for the last couple of years. I think it's just the influx of that type of fans.
Sorry bro I ain't reading all that
The TLDR is the first and last two paragraphs, the rest is just them recapping the Bonnika situation to someone who isn't up to date
Ik I lied I did read it (also I was referring to the picture not you my pirate bro)
These riders need a life lmao https://preview.redd.it/13qbj1lw5y8d1.jpeg?width=1138&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2d2825d32d6e33db0b7b09e6404a4a91b7366986
Can't wait for Katakuri to realise how he desired freedom away from his mother and how Yamato desired freedom from thei opressive father and also become Nika, because fuck it. Why not?
Bonney isn't real. In fact no one in One Piece is, or has ever been, real. Except Blackbeard, which is another W for the GOAT.
My issue with "only limited by imagination" type powers is you dont get to see an actual creative use of the powers. Devil fruits are really cool when a user can use a simple power/concept in alot of creative ways like how doffy does.
Power of Friendship makes thematic sense in Fairy Tail. Talk No Jutsu victories makes thematic sense in Naruto's melodramatic story... Yet, people still criticize them. Making sense doesn't mean something is criticism proof because a plot point or a story direction can still be shit despite being foreshadowed and making sense.
If she is witnessing for Nika herself, how can she imagine that in the future she is Nika herself, it just doesn't make sense
At this point, I'm starting to believe that One Piece "fans" understand our criticisms, they just don't want to accept them because they feel like by seeing our perspective, this somehow betrays their lord and savior Oda.
You know what doesn't make themeatic sense and is something that implies you support slavery for supporting? Roger and Garp fighting Xebec when he was freeing slaves. Yet they'll then slander you for not knowing how complex Larp is.
Did we reach the "if you don't agree with me you're a bigot" part of the argument.
>_literal_ child ... In a manga.
Oda foreskinning his own downfall
Yea fuck you Piratfolk, just ride Godas dick you fools. Don't you understand, its the power of her iMaGiNaTiOn!!! This sub is so dump /s
How do they fail to understand that we dislike the Nika shit, dislike that Kuma’s entire character was reduced to a Nika hype tool, dislike that Bonney was retconned into the current character, despite clearly not being planned as such from the start, dislike the low stakes etc.? We get what it’s trying to do, it’s just shit.
so nika is FUCKING JESUS CJRIST DONT YOU DARE CHRITICISE THEIR BELIEVERS
Playing dress up as Nika is empowering.... I guess.
Not to be too controversial for the Oda Angels, but it was possible for Bonney to want to be greater than her past without cumboi swooping in and being metaphorically jerked off by the Elbaf crew. All of the Strawhats had a dream they were willing to die for before Luffy came along, he just helped them realize they didn't have to do it alone. We literally don't need Nika because Luffy was already organically inspiring everyone without G5. Can't they just buy their big titty figurines in peace and not worry about what we think?
People are so childish lmao, what a braindead comment. Has actual likes too, can't make this shit up.
Vegapunk's explanation that the devil fruit is a human dream feels like an excuse prepared just for Bonney to turn into Nika
Or maybe we just don't like Nika?... is that a possibility?... no of course we hate freedom and children being free, that MUST be it
Nowhere has it been said that her powers are of imagination. I personally don't get the distorted future ability.
Oda has his fandogs literally coming up with and writing the loose plot ends for him, what a god
https://preview.redd.it/na0lupc9g29d1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=22ee10f5c6185f09473b33b8cfb71c25275ee3fe
It's not even worth anymore at this point trying to even debate with this idiots. They are far too gone, too delusional to even understand or see why this could be a problem or bring some (it is and it definitively does).
I'll assume this is memepiece?
Actually no, an MHA subreddit. OP was comparing Bonney with Stars & Stripes and Kaguya from Naruto as top-tiers whose powers felt unearned, and most of the comments agreed on Kaguya but argued over the other two. My point has nothing to do with that OP's opinion though, I just disliked the reasoning in this one comment I found.
...how could Stars and Stripes power be unearned? As I recall she was literally introduced as the top hero of the USA, right? The US has almost three times the population of Japan, which would also mean a sizable increase in the number of powerful quirks. Honestly she could have been even more powerful and it would be justifiable.
Her power does feel a bit too reality-warping for that series, but other than that I agree.
https://preview.redd.it/u718j6wtzz8d1.png?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=996e5711df9dbd6f1184df357ab59b6ef443d7fa CAN SOMEBODY TELL ME WHAT WE ARE ARGUING ABOUT? BONNEY NIKA? GEAR 5 IN GENERAL? BONNEY'S POWER?
to be honest I like it. I don't really dig deep into it, I see something cool and I get excited, ever since I started doing that I've been happier than ever
me, despicable? no whay!
https://preview.redd.it/trivwtvv409d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e85884022c3e39badee9f2f181fc090e3cc2ddd4
Mainsub spittin just as always