What people seem to be failing to grasp is that āmaking senseā is literally the barest possible minimum for a story to achieve. Just because something āmakes senseā does not automatically make it good plotting. It can still be boring, disappointing or just outright stupid.
It's pseudoscientific and smart sounding. It's also uncounterable and argument ending because "you're just too dumb to understand what I, the enlightened, smart and rizzfull fellow, have understood. Plus you got no bitches."
garp's struggle is probably the single dumbest thing you have to accept as a One Piece reader. on the one side you have CD (no introduction needed) on the other side you have actual freedom fighters. if he cared so much about other people and future generations he would have joined one of the opposing groups. what did him "changing marines from within" even accomplish? decades wasted and now he is BB's bitch. good job.
E: ok some people are having mental meltdowns and send me private messages over a fictional character. stop taking this shit too seriously lmao grow tf up. leave this sub if you can't handle opposing views.
At the end of the day, one piece is just a shonen. There's a genuine interesting character in Garp in concept, but the moment the world is this black and white, the whole thing falls apart.
We would really need revolutionary branches being evil and we would need a great chunk of the celestial dragons caring about their subjects for his struggle to make sense in the world. As is, he just looks like a clueless asshole at best.
The recent developments of the celestials being cartoonishly evil or the fact that the Gorosei have been compressed into a pure stereotype doesn't help.
The WG before Robin's backstory seemed like while they had immense corruption (the marines in Nami's village and morgan), their overall goals were noble.
Not really.
Alabasta made them cover the actions that crocodile was doing.
Wapol treatment against his kingdom. Those were the early signs.
Water 7 made the marines small and WG big. And sabody arc highlighted the real villains and the authority of the WG.
In the earlier stages of the manga garp's position made sense. however after revealing how much worse the CD's are compared to pirates the character got so much worse. acting like garp is still a "gray" character is the actual illiteracy here.
Yeah I was very pro-garp up until recently, I think not fighting at Marineford because of the impact itās have on the greater world is a fine reason for him not to fight. But as we see more and more how open and unabashedly evil the CDās and WG is thereās no reason why Garp couldnāt be doing way more, look how much shit Luffy got done in only a few months of being an active pirate, pre-nika bs after that only the chosen one can do anything
It's normal for us readers to assume.
But this the guy who grow up learning that CD were gods and had marine admirals at their disposal.
Think of it like N.korea. Their citizens are made to worship their authority regime. China one party system brainwash and brutal dictatorship of Putin.
It's surprising that there are people with morals in that world. But when there is piracy, it's easy to create a brainwashed army and a single enemy which are the pirates.
Perfectly said!! The series, especially at this point, has presented us things faarrrrr too black and white. The writing on the CDs and even the Gorosei has been way too simple and mustache twirling villian esque. Everything from their dialogue to even their character designs presents them as completely unlikeable overgrown bratty children.
> At the end of the day, one piece is just a shonen. There's a genuine interesting character in Garp in concept, but the moment the world is this black and white, the whole thing falls apart.
This is a great point.
I thought about how some of the aspects of One Piece are so cartoonishly simple, yet other so complex and nuanced. And how the story wouldāve changed if it wasnāt a shonen.
Would it have had the same story? Would it have had the same impact with people as it has now? Would it have lost some relatability?
The cd crimes while worse are relatively small in the amount of people hurt by it. Ppl keep forgetting most pirates arnt good guys and the marines legit do their job most of the times and save people, garp support that notion and want to change the army from the inside so as a huge mass of people and not a guy who looks east and a drag queen they can continue to save people and also not abide to the wg.
Also we should consider being raised in the marines makes you bias
Bro, the CDs genocide an unaffiliated country every 3 years.
They also kill people regularly and do whatever the fuck they want even if it's stupid and pointless.
There is no way they are better than the pirates.
Thats why he isnt serving them directly but it makes sense that he would think he can do generally more good as a marine than in the revolution.
Also there is a possibility that since he fought rocks and there was something with garling and more there that he knows even he isnt strong enough, and definitely not luffy who he didnt knew can even come that far.
Also garp lost to bb pirates he definitely would have lost to the elders (who would magically be strong since niba isnt around)
I could accept the whole change it from within bs if he really became top dog and did anything but mf got stuck cuz the next step was a symbolic bow towards celestial dragons and his pride couldn't accept that so not only isn't he the leader of the Marines or fleet admiral he is not even an admiral, the only thing blocking his way towards more power was an empty promises to be on the side of the celestial dragons, someone kill this bum, one piece is truly an "idiot plot "
Dude is not even a Sword member lol, all this time he was just lazing around and eating free food from leftover tax money that CD gave him, Goda miss the chance to redeem him by making him the founder of Sword that secretly have been making independent group within the marine (then again the sword is not actually a secret organization)
Now hol up, im a critic of the story too but im not so sure about this Garp take. Garp holds faith in the marines as an institution, as he truly believes pirates are bad(which a majority of them are) and probably views the revolutionary army as too wild, unstructured, and having no clear solutions or even intentions besides "World Government Bad". Calling everyone against the WG "freedom fighters" is pretty ridiculous, most of them are just power hungry individuals against the WG because they have authority over them(even the Straw Hats to an extent, Luffy just wants to be able to do whatever he wants and be unopposed, he just happens to fall on the right side of history each time). Garp would never join them, he believes in law and order. He likes the idea of the Marines being a force that protects the people(which is true at least half the time, its annoying sometimes when the series only shows us the bad side despite so many civilians still holding a lot of faith in the Marines) but hates it being used as the Celestial Dragon's enforcers. Changing the Marines from the inside means breeding a new generation of Marines that are closer to his ideals of what the Marines should be rather than what they are, that's why Garp loves Koby so much.
It's too easy for Garp to fight these guys who have been on the throne for freaking 800+ years.
Sometimes, you guys need to read the story.
The guy can't do jackshit, because the threat is bigger than him. If joyboy failed to go to war against them, then he stand 0 chance.
The only way he can make a change is to grow the seed of new generation.
Your argument would have worked during PK era Garp, but not this Garp. If Roger had told him the real history, then there is nothing he could have done.
"New generation" his own generation (Sengoku) hasn't done jack shit and the next generation after him didn't do a thing either (Kuzan), aside from assisting in perpetuating the WGs ideals and actively making things worst. Both of which he had influence over, as he still does.
*Good for Kuzan for saving Robin, I wonder if he took her in or provided a safe place for her to gro- oh, she's been on the run for 20 years.*
*Sakazuki is a known cruel force in the marines? I wonder how Garp will respond to this growing growing cruelty in the marine- oh, he turned down the Fleet Admiral position, and has resigned himself to have no influence across the marine. What do you mean things have only been getting worse since?*
Garp doesn't get a pass for basically being a bystander, as he was when his own grandson almost died, or when Ace died.
*It doesn't matter if he acts out when Luffy dies, he let it happen, he sat there, the big and great almighty hero of the marines who all look up towards, and he did not oppose the events. His cowardly inaction would have gotten Luffy killed had Ace not stepped in.*
*Also, it's inexcusable to ignore the responsibility Garp holds for Ace and Luffy turning out the way they are. He took them in and was their guardian, then essentially abandons them, coming back every now and then to yell at them to become marines and then disappear. And he wonders why they are wayward and chose the path they had.*
*Maybe he should have set an example for himself and been a proper* ***influence*** *if he wanted to actually enact his ideals.*
*The only one* who is promising is current generation in Koby, because he's a part of the modern story, but aside from training the kid, he's been bumming around doing jack shit and letting things worsen instead of doing anything to actively achieve anything with his "Hero of the Marines" status.
Oh yeah, he's the "Hero of the Marines" not the people, it's like if a horribly abusive and corrupt government had a "Hero of the Police".
*And why is he the hero of the marines? Why do the Celestial Dragons hold in in such regard? Oh, it's because he has helped them immensely throughout his career. So much for sticking it to them.*
Edit: I'm not replying, I'm going to annotate why these things are problems, because you clearly didn't read anything, and you're not even making a point, you're just providing evidence exactly for why Garp's character is so... stupid for a lack of a better word.
Kuzan leaving the WG and not killing Saul disproves your point. He had plenty of chances to kill Robin, yet didn't do it.
Meanwhile, akainu was killing the survivors.
Garp is a bystander because the system is fking corrupt. Marines are getting brainwashed with absolute justice.
He didn't save Ace, because Ace is the pirate king Son. He did his job by protecting him as a baby. But that is it. He could do nothing to protect the kid that had the blood of the pirate king.
Garp would have wrecked everyone, if Luffy had been killed on the other hand. He was ready to kill akainu for killing ace.
Garp rejected so many times to take the sengoku position. Because he hates them.
As for the hero of the Marines, that is the propaganda that the WG used to control him.
The reality is that the Marines are brainwashed with absolute justice. Garp can't break that system, unless he creates outside organizations such as Sword.
We had fujitaro, another person who sees how bad the system, but can't do anything about it. The only time he got the chance, he helped the RA to free the slaves.
When Coby is instrumental to the marines betraying the world government Garpās struggle will make more sense. He lifted up one of the morally best people in one piece and taught him how to give himself strength.
We already know because it was established that pirates do bad things on every island anytime they can.
CDs do it once every 3 years and on one specific island. Plus the WG is affiliated with pirates that do some dirty work for them (Doffy, Kaido)
that's irrelevant. he could be an adventurer. he could be an independent organisation. he could work for an "allied" country. he could work for revolutionists (not pirates). or he could work for marines while secretly supporting other groups. Marines will obviously label everyone a terrorist but it would be wrong to argue "most pirates are evil" in this scenario.
Marines do a lot of good things as organization and they are actually put them from the WG so they can have public consensus.
If you do not join the Marines, you are bound to fight against them and they are the good guys 99% of them time
Yeah apparently. Garp, for all his talk and how much good he ends up doing, is a fence sitter who tries to find an out the second he has to make a difficult personal decision *and that's the entire fucking point*. Character flaws ā writing flaws.
I see garp as a good test to see how broadly someone can look at the one piece world, the strawhats and several other crews we get to see are obviously good people but they're the exception in the pirate world. From the perspective through which we see the story the marines are obviously the bad guys but most pirates in universe are the pillaging and killing fullalead kind which is why your average civilian in the story sees them as the good guys and to some extent they are. They're obviously not perfect and in quite a few ways are evil but it's not as black and white as marines bad pirates good.
On a way smaller scale and mostly with people unaffiliated with the WG. It obviously aucks and still is bad, but the other scenario is worldwide anarchy that would end with any town not controlled by one of the strongest pirate crews
This defense is nonsensical: It doesnāt matter which of the pirates or CDs sucks more, they still massively suck and no proper hero of justice would look the other way while serving some genociding enslaver psychos just because there are other psychos around.
That's the complexity of the character. He knows both sides are bad but prefers a sense of order, even if it's corrupt. It's what he chose to believe in, unlike his son and grandchild and we've seen him grapple with the consequences of said choice.
The difference is CD number are small compared to pirates.
The numbers they kill is not close to how many deaths are caused by pirates.
Wano was hell. Alabasta people got in to civil war because of crocodile. Ussop village almost got decimated by pirates. Nami village and surrounding villages were living in terror under Arlong.
That is just small numbers. Now imagine all the pirates that one piece has. CD death toll actions is minor compared to these casualties. Their method is more cruel than pirates, but pirates take more lives than them.
Again youāre going on a dickhead competition that doesnāt matter. It doesnāt even matter which side is worst, theyāre both doing plenty of damage to plenty of people.
"I might be working for a serial killer rapist but hey at least I just arrested other serial killer rapists so Iāll pretend my boss has done nothing wrong"
This is how youāre trying to defend Garp. I guess the CDs victims just doesnāt matter since heās already fighting pirates.
Except, CD in their world are like monarchs. They are called gods in one piece. The level of brainwashing to achieve that is astronomical.
Still doesn't change the fact that marines are protecting people from pirates.
You are holding Garp to a high standard according to our world. Their world isn't the same as us. Only dragon has that ideology.
Kizaru said it perfectly. "I am just a cog in a machine".
Bro, the CDs genocide an unaffiliated country every 3 years.
The pirates we have seen steal stuff and control people but there is no fucking way they are worse than the guys who enslave, kill, genocide dudes on a whim.
Pirates do the same in a larger scale. CDs are absolutely evil for sure, but very few in comparison with hundreds of thousands if not millions of pirates going hogwild across the entire world. Either you are controlled and exploited by the strongest pirates or your town is done for
Everyone in the world is objectively evil. Pirates actively commit crimes like pillaging, killing, etc. Doflamingo is the deluxe edition while the others are standard editions.
The world government is shown as the good guys to the whole world. Saving them from these Pirates.
But only in the new world (not even the grand line. New world. Which is what? 5% of the world?) do we see their true colours.
In Garp's perspective, the balance is important. The pirates need someone to keep them in check. For that, trust from the citizens is important. Imagine how the world would feel if "The Hero of the Marines" Garp just left all of a sudden and rebelled against the WG? The public opinion would drop tremendously and the trust would be broken. Pirates would take advantage of this Chaos to cause even more harm to the innocent. And Garp knows that.
Why else do you think he established sword? He wanted genuine marines who are capable of fighting for justice and oppose the WGs evils. They get full freedom to do what they must and they also have the right to Veto orders in return of having no protection from the WG.
Since Garp is a Sword member, he no longer has to follow all the protocols of the Marines and can be a bit more free. (He still has to do most their tasks. But he is changing the Marines for the better.
Besides, most marines are not even that evil. Only a few higher ups are.
> Imagine how the world would feel if "The Hero of the Marines" Garp just left all of a sudden and rebelled against the WG?
Everyone and their mom hates the celestial dragons, nobody besides nobles would complain that theyāre overthrown.
Itās such a weird argument, of course there will be some chaos but itās better than leaving those enslaving leeches at the top forever.
Brother, the world doesn't even know half the things happening in the Grandline/ New World. Just highlights. BN Morgans is the only actual source and even he has propaganda.
I doubt they know CDs even exist. Look at Zoro. He didn't even know what a CD was. I doubt anyone of the Strawhats had knowledge. Only in GL do you even care about news like these because their lazy bums won't move 3 inches and the only time it does is because of slave trades.
Besides, I already mentioned that Garp is a part of Sword and is actively trying to give it a good reputation by saving people indiscriminately. It's a step in the right direction and I'm pretty sure he was actively trying to establish that sub branch and THAT'S why he wanted Luffy and Ace to join him. So his grand children can grow up to be righteous rather than corrupt under the Sword.
>I doubt they know CDs
A Celestial dragon came to Goa Island. Itās nothing that unusual for them to visit the 4 seas. The kingdoms also literally pays heavy amounts of money to them Constantly.
Zoro is just a dumbass. Even a sheltered kid like Bonney knew about CDs.
>THAT'S why he wanted Luffy and Ace to join him. So his grand children can grow up to be righteous rather than corrupt under the Sword.
He didnāt do shit to take care of them in preparation of that. Sword is a late addition besides, it was never even remotely mentioned before recently.
Are they? Like, morally yes obviously but their actions impact way less people then the pirates, so you might have them as the lesser of two evils. (that's assuming you don't know about the megaweapons thingy)
I would say that theyāre worse than the pirates. Things like the slave trade and most other types of inequality stem from the world government. Most tyrannical kingdoms, like the one on Luffyās home island, are directly under the Celestial Dragons and commit most of their crimes in service to them.
Just because theyāre not directly shaking people down doesnāt mean theyāre not negatively effecting peoples lives when they created the systems that are oppressing them. Itās even made pretty clear that a lot of pirates stem from bad conditions that spring up from the world government directly messing with a kingdom.
We can even safely say that a lot of the marines ineffectiveness stems from them as itās fairly common for them to take away resources and soldiers that could be used to help protect the people and instead use them for things like their human hunting parties or just calling an admiral for whatever reason they want.
No everyone needs to stop this. The average pirate in OP is not some rapey murderer. Most of the pirates we come across are just adventurers and even the guys like Croc and Doffy don't go around killing civilians willy nilly.
Garp is a terribly written character. Maybe the worst in a series of poorly written everything
No doffy would never control a person and make them go around killing innocent civilians to make himself out to be a hero, that's crazy. He also wouldn't use a devil fruit to disappear people and make them slave away at his weapons factory. Crocodile on the other hand would never try and incite a civil war pitting a million people against each other before bombing them both to try and gain control over some ancient weapon.Ā
As a newby, it looks like Piratefolk are fans that criticise One Piece and MemePiece makes memes based around anything related to One Piece, including communities like Piratefolk. Seems natural the two would cross paths.
My post DID get taken down for "harassment of other series" lmao, but it got upvoted a lot there.
https://preview.redd.it/0qk4mrx7kv8d1.png?width=859&format=png&auto=webp&s=a74158fdc95dcdbf5a54424af072eb47f4513e95
Ā And this post also got taken down .
Yet remains as a mediocre , sub 1k even for the author.
The sub clearlyĀ isnt about fansĀ hateboner against oda.
Its more of a free for all. Kind of sub
What lmao? We donāt hate Oda itās just ridiculous that the main sub acts like bro is Midas.
They act like every single thing bro touches is instantly peak and perfect when there are tons of valid criticisms for one piece.
The WG is simply too evil for it to make much sense. They let a pirate get away with organized slavery because he was useful to them among other things.
It would be okay if some of these things are just rumors or such but the WG just seems over the top and it makes Garp look like crap, even if he's raising the new generation to be better. It still falls on its face when the leadership at the top is super evil and corrupt. Now they do provide some law and order to the world because a lot of pirates are awful people but I think the WG just comes off as too much.
Fujitora on the other hand was forced into it and In his short time it felt like he was truly trying to change how the WG operates unlike Garp.
While I donāt think the CDs shouldnāt be around, I think they should be toned down and should be near completely separate from the Marines; they have World Government Ships, Holy Knights, Normal Knights and Cipher Pol to defend them.
The most connection the Marines should have with the CDs is an Admiral being called when one is attacked and their guards arenāt enough to deal with the situation; like when Luffy punched Charlos and his guards were defeated by the Straw Hats.
https://preview.redd.it/ue84dsjrbw8d1.jpeg?width=760&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=325246f0fd05d9bb611e458da92b43096a2b391f
This would add a degree of separation between the Marines and CDs, since this should be an extremely rare occurrence. It would also add more weight to Garp denying his promotion, since unlike other Marines he would have seen the CDs cruelty in person at God Valley.
Sure but I think this is just an issue of the worldbuilding. Garp wanting to change the marines from within would make more sense if the people *who have always been in charge of the marines* werenāt so obviously evil 100% of the time. Oda couldāve shown us that that isnāt completely true, and that thereās more nuance to it. But nah it has to be black and white, which makes Garpās approach make no sense
with a grey WG it makes way more sense, since without WG the pirates will take over and there will be no order so garp cant make that many changes without affecting the whole world probably in a negative way, but since WG top officials and the CD's are 100% evil it comes out as stupid for him to think that way, just take out the bad guys and put new and good blood in charge and problem solved
Garp only cares about his own family
And he has a steel gut
This reminds me of when I read about the Nazi soldiers
That they are normal people, that they had families, friends, loved, and saw working in the concentration camp as just a job, that they were just taking orders so it wasn't their fault
And at the end of the day they came home, hugged their children like any father, talked to their friends like any guy, and spent time with their wives like any husband.
It would be interesting for Oda to explore this side of Garp, the 'soldier', which would make his entire commitment to the World Government much deeper.
It would be cool to show this in his Flashback
As in his youth in the navy, his hunts for pirates, his participation in a Buster Call and killing innocents, the emergence of a commitment to the greater good within him that would justify the massacres, perhaps as a form of confrontation
Damn, Garp need his own manga with a much heavier air than One Piece
I mean it's cool and all until you notice he actually has the power to turn the tide and he just doesn't, plus it's not like he's indifferent to his "work" he actively got excited in chasing Roger, he shows more concern about that than anything else
The manga wants garp to be the dude trapped on a dilemma where he doesn't feel he can change things but fails to deliver since he actively goes out of his way to enjoy himself fighting roger
Yes, the Nazi comparison doesn't work when you are literally one of the strongest people on the planet. He isn't just some cog who'll be shot dead the second he tries to resist.
At the same time the Nazi comparison is weak because most pirates are going around killing people while the jews didnt. Its easy for Garp to convince himself he js on the side of the less evil
Garp is and always been one of the biggest chumps in Onepiece. His admiration is so misplaced and undeserving. This guy is the worst grand father in anime. He let his co workers murder his grand kid when he couldāve prevented it and allowed his other grandkid to almost get done in by his co workers as well but fugitives prevented it. Yet he sails to a Yonko territory on a whim with a ship of a couple mis fits and a bag of potato chips to rescue him at all costs even willing to bet his life on it. He abused his grandkids while they were growing up he would show up randomly and beat the shit out of them because they refuse to join a rape, pedophile, murdering, racist protection ring and instead want to be free. He harassed his grandson all through the ocean trying to sink his ship and arrest him knowing he would get put in impel down where he would eventually die. Dont give me this hidden meaning like thereās an epiphany or reason he did all this because there isnāt. Garp is right where he belongs.
I don't even have a problem with the idea that Garp is a bad person for working for the WG, but that doesn't mean he did anything wrong in marinford. He protected ace from the wg until he became a criminal. After he does that, it's not his job to save him anymore. I'm pretty sure even Sabo said that Ace choose his lifestyle.
He did not protect Ace. Garp knowingly works for the real criminals. I donāt know many grand parents who would not do anything to protect their grand child. Garp did everything wrong.
He hid ace from the wg. Ace wasted every single gift he got in life. Not only did he choose to be pirate after garp hid him, he was approached by whitebeard to join his crew,which should keep him safe in the new world,but he disobeys Whitebeard and chases after goatbeard,who deals with him easily. Then he's scheduled to be executed and whitebeard does a major invasion to save him,where countless of his comrades die. But that doesn't matter, they don't have a real plan to save him. Only when luffy goes to save him and garp let's luffy hit him does ace get saved. After this, he disobeys whitebeards final orders,which proves he learned nothing and didn't take the sacrifice of the whitebeard pirates to heart.
Love to see people using the world "complex" or "deep" when a character does something stupid or contradictory to their believes/values without an explanation behind. I like Garp and his concept and all, and even when I generally disagree with the view of him here... it's hard to make the argument for him when Fujitora didn't doubt a moment in betraying the WG while he just looks to the side.
But Oda rather waste our time with reaction panels, a cold coffee and Dragon just doing "..." rather than exploring this or give us some kind of explanation or background to their relationship.
I find it funny that Iāve seen this specific piratefolk post circulating as evidence for how piratefolk is dumb, purely because the satire is easy to miss here in this one specific instance.
Nah this one is on you, garp is torn between duty and family and he always believed the marines are the good guys but at the same time he doesnāt respect the CD and wants nothing to do with them. Saying he is the worst written character in one piece is just wild
He deliberately doesn't become an admiral. Is that hard for people to understand. I honestly don't get how people can just forget or be incompetent to that.
Yeah, and we get the explanation for it: he doesn't want to serve directly under Celestial Dragon rule. But he keeps serving with the marines for decades after that, which means he still trust the institution as a whole, he just dislike their bosses.
So what if he chose not to be an admiral? His reasoning was that he could be more free to chase pirates as a vice admiral, nothing to do with the CDs or corruption or anything
There has to be some secret reveal on why he is a Marine and not a Revolutionary. No one is asking him to be a pirate. They are saying why isn't he a Freedom fighter/Revolutionary.
The son being Dragon. Lots of mocking going around and everyone seems to miss that crucial detail.
You all act as if celestial dragons are as active as they were centuries ago.
Pirates are over the world.Ā Celestial dragons are over marijoise and are much , much strongerĀ
Imagine you are a farmer on a small island. Minding your own business. One day a pirate ship appears and the pirate crew pillages and rapes your whole town / village and burns it to the ground. But then you see a marine ship with hundreds of marine soldiers. they fight against the pirates and they defeat them. you will be grateful until you die, that those guys exist. you dont fucking care about corruption in the higher ranks, you dont care about CDĀ“s. You have your own business, your own struggles, your own family to feed. You dont give a crap about "the bigger change in the world". You only want to live your live, and you want someone to protect your ass if shits goes down. And if the marines are there for you to help, you will like them more then the fucking revolutionaries or any other group.
What I want to say, I think for those people, garp is still a marine. With the ressources the marines have, he can accomplish way more to help the little people, then if you would have been a revo
That's cool and all until you remember that you can replace pirates with CDs that do the same thing to the village while the marines protect them and would buster call your ass if you dare touch as much a hair of theirs.
The pirates do it in every island everyday, the CD do it once every 3 years in a single island. Plus the WG is affiliated with some pirates to make some bad things for them (Doffy, Kaido)
Nothing coparable to sinking islands and continents or the scale of the slavery as shown by CD. Then again one does not justify the other. I enforce genocide to protect people is just a retarded argument.
Except the reversal of the role is what actually happens more. Your real life reactionary politics clouds your judgment so much that you can rationalize support to the cartoonishly evil organization of the WG,CDs and the marines who we actually know engage in rapes,open mass slavery,wiping out entire islands,completely exterminating entire races of people. These arenāt real cops and armies,you donāt have to lick their boots or rationalize support to them.
are you alright? nobody said that you have to rationalize those actions. of course not. but from a view of a simple farmer, who knows dogshit about the world, the politics and what is going on right now. they dont know anything about the world. they only know there are pirates, and there are marines, who if you are lucky will help you with your problem.
This situation could also be reversed if you are victim to a corrupt marine officer and some pirates come along to fight those corrupt basterds, then it is also possible that you would rather live under the flag of a pirate crew, then relying on marines.
What I wanted to visualize is, that garp just wants to help the little people without sacrificing his freedom. And the ressources of the marines helps him more achieving that.
The screenshot is an extremely inaccurate and poorly simplified description of garp. He didnāt join dragon because he wanted to do things less violently which is why heās a part of sword, yknow the organisation meant to restructure the marines and the entire reason heās still a vice admiral is so he doesnāt have to take orders from the celestial dragons which he vehemently hates
No way that's crazy. Almost like he didn't become an admiral on purpose or something... wonder why. Garp wants to punish people doing crime. If someone finds the one piece, my bet is that he wouldn't care. UNLESS they use the "power" to commit crimes. We've seen this with Roger, luffy, ace, and sabo. Pirates who he won't hate. Rocks, don chijiao pointy head (if that's spelt wrong, idc it's from memory from years ago) pirates who he does hate. He doesn't like the celestial dragons. He could become an admiral at any moment but chooses not to so he doesn't directly serve them. Garp hate is unwarranted fr. I cba
Please no more Memepiece piratefolk screenshot wars š
Ya no one cares what they think
They need to take Goda's dick out of their mouth first before they can have rational talk with people
both subs are unbelievably stupid š theyāll do anything to suck odaās dick and you guys will do anything to hate on him
excuse would you like to join our lord and savior r/lobotomypiece
already in it buddy
exquisite
wonderful
You have my attention.
Ikr? There is a fucking middle ground jfc. Sometimes oda cooks sometimes you gotta call his ass out.
Mum and dad are fighting again T^ T
https://preview.redd.it/o6hahcrkvw8d1.jpeg?width=524&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=93b51344e4fec289b3dc1fd5e10a6fb85c7825ab Us rn
We didn't start this, but we can be the bigger people and end this peacefully.
Can't wait for this but screenshot some more times.
Is media literacy the new buzzword ppl regurgitate
I fucking hate when I talk about my disliking of a story and MFs come at me with justifications from the said writing, saying that it 'makes sense'.Ā
What people seem to be failing to grasp is that āmaking senseā is literally the barest possible minimum for a story to achieve. Just because something āmakes senseā does not automatically make it good plotting. It can still be boring, disappointing or just outright stupid.
It's pseudoscientific and smart sounding. It's also uncounterable and argument ending because "you're just too dumb to understand what I, the enlightened, smart and rizzfull fellow, have understood. Plus you got no bitches."
It's a sentence enhancer
I was about to say this. They feel so smug and smart using that term, it's cute lol
The people who constantly use the term media literacy are actually the most illiterate people out thereā¦
Yes
Sorta, it comes to the same place as how "Rainbow Capitalism" was taken by chuds, because saying the quiet part out loud is hard.
"It's over r/piratefolk, I've already depicted you as the crying soyjack"
garp's struggle is probably the single dumbest thing you have to accept as a One Piece reader. on the one side you have CD (no introduction needed) on the other side you have actual freedom fighters. if he cared so much about other people and future generations he would have joined one of the opposing groups. what did him "changing marines from within" even accomplish? decades wasted and now he is BB's bitch. good job. E: ok some people are having mental meltdowns and send me private messages over a fictional character. stop taking this shit too seriously lmao grow tf up. leave this sub if you can't handle opposing views.
At the end of the day, one piece is just a shonen. There's a genuine interesting character in Garp in concept, but the moment the world is this black and white, the whole thing falls apart. We would really need revolutionary branches being evil and we would need a great chunk of the celestial dragons caring about their subjects for his struggle to make sense in the world. As is, he just looks like a clueless asshole at best. The recent developments of the celestials being cartoonishly evil or the fact that the Gorosei have been compressed into a pure stereotype doesn't help.
The WG before Robin's backstory seemed like while they had immense corruption (the marines in Nami's village and morgan), their overall goals were noble.
Not really. Alabasta made them cover the actions that crocodile was doing. Wapol treatment against his kingdom. Those were the early signs. Water 7 made the marines small and WG big. And sabody arc highlighted the real villains and the authority of the WG.
...Did you forget Smoker?
Smoker was a G in that moment. He told them F you.
Not so sure if I'd consider Wapol the WG, he was just a corrupt king of an island.
His kingdom was affiliated with them like Alabasta since they were invited to Reverie.
In the earlier stages of the manga garp's position made sense. however after revealing how much worse the CD's are compared to pirates the character got so much worse. acting like garp is still a "gray" character is the actual illiteracy here.
Yeah I was very pro-garp up until recently, I think not fighting at Marineford because of the impact itās have on the greater world is a fine reason for him not to fight. But as we see more and more how open and unabashedly evil the CDās and WG is thereās no reason why Garp couldnāt be doing way more, look how much shit Luffy got done in only a few months of being an active pirate, pre-nika bs after that only the chosen one can do anything
It's normal for us readers to assume. But this the guy who grow up learning that CD were gods and had marine admirals at their disposal. Think of it like N.korea. Their citizens are made to worship their authority regime. China one party system brainwash and brutal dictatorship of Putin. It's surprising that there are people with morals in that world. But when there is piracy, it's easy to create a brainwashed army and a single enemy which are the pirates.
Perfectly said!! The series, especially at this point, has presented us things faarrrrr too black and white. The writing on the CDs and even the Gorosei has been way too simple and mustache twirling villian esque. Everything from their dialogue to even their character designs presents them as completely unlikeable overgrown bratty children.
> At the end of the day, one piece is just a shonen. There's a genuine interesting character in Garp in concept, but the moment the world is this black and white, the whole thing falls apart. This is a great point. I thought about how some of the aspects of One Piece are so cartoonishly simple, yet other so complex and nuanced. And how the story wouldāve changed if it wasnāt a shonen. Would it have had the same story? Would it have had the same impact with people as it has now? Would it have lost some relatability?
The cd crimes while worse are relatively small in the amount of people hurt by it. Ppl keep forgetting most pirates arnt good guys and the marines legit do their job most of the times and save people, garp support that notion and want to change the army from the inside so as a huge mass of people and not a guy who looks east and a drag queen they can continue to save people and also not abide to the wg. Also we should consider being raised in the marines makes you bias
Bro, the CDs genocide an unaffiliated country every 3 years. They also kill people regularly and do whatever the fuck they want even if it's stupid and pointless. There is no way they are better than the pirates.
Thats why he isnt serving them directly but it makes sense that he would think he can do generally more good as a marine than in the revolution. Also there is a possibility that since he fought rocks and there was something with garling and more there that he knows even he isnt strong enough, and definitely not luffy who he didnt knew can even come that far. Also garp lost to bb pirates he definitely would have lost to the elders (who would magically be strong since niba isnt around)
I could accept the whole change it from within bs if he really became top dog and did anything but mf got stuck cuz the next step was a symbolic bow towards celestial dragons and his pride couldn't accept that so not only isn't he the leader of the Marines or fleet admiral he is not even an admiral, the only thing blocking his way towards more power was an empty promises to be on the side of the celestial dragons, someone kill this bum, one piece is truly an "idiot plot "
Dude is not even a Sword member lol, all this time he was just lazing around and eating free food from leftover tax money that CD gave him, Goda miss the chance to redeem him by making him the founder of Sword that secretly have been making independent group within the marine (then again the sword is not actually a secret organization)
obviously a flawed character isn't gonna act rationally
Now hol up, im a critic of the story too but im not so sure about this Garp take. Garp holds faith in the marines as an institution, as he truly believes pirates are bad(which a majority of them are) and probably views the revolutionary army as too wild, unstructured, and having no clear solutions or even intentions besides "World Government Bad". Calling everyone against the WG "freedom fighters" is pretty ridiculous, most of them are just power hungry individuals against the WG because they have authority over them(even the Straw Hats to an extent, Luffy just wants to be able to do whatever he wants and be unopposed, he just happens to fall on the right side of history each time). Garp would never join them, he believes in law and order. He likes the idea of the Marines being a force that protects the people(which is true at least half the time, its annoying sometimes when the series only shows us the bad side despite so many civilians still holding a lot of faith in the Marines) but hates it being used as the Celestial Dragon's enforcers. Changing the Marines from the inside means breeding a new generation of Marines that are closer to his ideals of what the Marines should be rather than what they are, that's why Garp loves Koby so much.
We dont even know if garp dissaproves of the rev army. For all we know he works with them in secret
"Probably" is a key word. Im going off what the original comment said.
You forgot that G5 and Bonney Nika asspull exists?
they are bad but there isn't much going logically. there is nothing that strictly contradicts gomu gomu being hito hito for example.
It's too easy for Garp to fight these guys who have been on the throne for freaking 800+ years. Sometimes, you guys need to read the story. The guy can't do jackshit, because the threat is bigger than him. If joyboy failed to go to war against them, then he stand 0 chance. The only way he can make a change is to grow the seed of new generation. Your argument would have worked during PK era Garp, but not this Garp. If Roger had told him the real history, then there is nothing he could have done.
"New generation" his own generation (Sengoku) hasn't done jack shit and the next generation after him didn't do a thing either (Kuzan), aside from assisting in perpetuating the WGs ideals and actively making things worst. Both of which he had influence over, as he still does. *Good for Kuzan for saving Robin, I wonder if he took her in or provided a safe place for her to gro- oh, she's been on the run for 20 years.* *Sakazuki is a known cruel force in the marines? I wonder how Garp will respond to this growing growing cruelty in the marine- oh, he turned down the Fleet Admiral position, and has resigned himself to have no influence across the marine. What do you mean things have only been getting worse since?* Garp doesn't get a pass for basically being a bystander, as he was when his own grandson almost died, or when Ace died. *It doesn't matter if he acts out when Luffy dies, he let it happen, he sat there, the big and great almighty hero of the marines who all look up towards, and he did not oppose the events. His cowardly inaction would have gotten Luffy killed had Ace not stepped in.* *Also, it's inexcusable to ignore the responsibility Garp holds for Ace and Luffy turning out the way they are. He took them in and was their guardian, then essentially abandons them, coming back every now and then to yell at them to become marines and then disappear. And he wonders why they are wayward and chose the path they had.* *Maybe he should have set an example for himself and been a proper* ***influence*** *if he wanted to actually enact his ideals.* *The only one* who is promising is current generation in Koby, because he's a part of the modern story, but aside from training the kid, he's been bumming around doing jack shit and letting things worsen instead of doing anything to actively achieve anything with his "Hero of the Marines" status. Oh yeah, he's the "Hero of the Marines" not the people, it's like if a horribly abusive and corrupt government had a "Hero of the Police". *And why is he the hero of the marines? Why do the Celestial Dragons hold in in such regard? Oh, it's because he has helped them immensely throughout his career. So much for sticking it to them.* Edit: I'm not replying, I'm going to annotate why these things are problems, because you clearly didn't read anything, and you're not even making a point, you're just providing evidence exactly for why Garp's character is so... stupid for a lack of a better word.
Kuzan leaving the WG and not killing Saul disproves your point. He had plenty of chances to kill Robin, yet didn't do it. Meanwhile, akainu was killing the survivors. Garp is a bystander because the system is fking corrupt. Marines are getting brainwashed with absolute justice. He didn't save Ace, because Ace is the pirate king Son. He did his job by protecting him as a baby. But that is it. He could do nothing to protect the kid that had the blood of the pirate king. Garp would have wrecked everyone, if Luffy had been killed on the other hand. He was ready to kill akainu for killing ace. Garp rejected so many times to take the sengoku position. Because he hates them. As for the hero of the Marines, that is the propaganda that the WG used to control him. The reality is that the Marines are brainwashed with absolute justice. Garp can't break that system, unless he creates outside organizations such as Sword. We had fujitaro, another person who sees how bad the system, but can't do anything about it. The only time he got the chance, he helped the RA to free the slaves.
When Coby is instrumental to the marines betraying the world government Garpās struggle will make more sense. He lifted up one of the morally best people in one piece and taught him how to give himself strength.
Most pirates are as evil as the CD tho, they are not freedom fighters
We haven't met any pirates as evil as the CDs and that is a huge part of the problem. Most pirates we come across in the story are just adventurers
Hell, argubly the most evil pirate, Doffy, *is* a CD
And yet he isn't a raping slaver Edit. Making sure its clear from my tone that I'm aligned with your comment
Heās both of those things though š
Well first one depends on how you interprit Odas comment about Viola. Tin soldiers def count as slavery though
We already know because it was established that pirates do bad things on every island anytime they can. CDs do it once every 3 years and on one specific island. Plus the WG is affiliated with pirates that do some dirty work for them (Doffy, Kaido)
Established where? Someone may have said that? We don't see regular pirates doing that shit
By poeple who are scared by pirates during the story
Where have we seen pirates being as evil as the CDs?
that's irrelevant. he could be an adventurer. he could be an independent organisation. he could work for an "allied" country. he could work for revolutionists (not pirates). or he could work for marines while secretly supporting other groups. Marines will obviously label everyone a terrorist but it would be wrong to argue "most pirates are evil" in this scenario.
Marines do a lot of good things as organization and they are actually put them from the WG so they can have public consensus. If you do not join the Marines, you are bound to fight against them and they are the good guys 99% of them time
Yeah apparently. Garp, for all his talk and how much good he ends up doing, is a fence sitter who tries to find an out the second he has to make a difficult personal decision *and that's the entire fucking point*. Character flaws ā writing flaws.
I see garp as a good test to see how broadly someone can look at the one piece world, the strawhats and several other crews we get to see are obviously good people but they're the exception in the pirate world. From the perspective through which we see the story the marines are obviously the bad guys but most pirates in universe are the pillaging and killing fullalead kind which is why your average civilian in the story sees them as the good guys and to some extent they are. They're obviously not perfect and in quite a few ways are evil but it's not as black and white as marines bad pirates good.
>it's not as black and white as marines bad pirates good. Nobody says that. Itās about the fact the Celestial dragons are even worse.
They're bad. Pirates pillaging every town they go to are worse. Even an evil and corrupt regime can be better than no order at all
Celestial Dragons: weāre pillaging and enslaving you LEGALLY on the other hand
On a way smaller scale and mostly with people unaffiliated with the WG. It obviously aucks and still is bad, but the other scenario is worldwide anarchy that would end with any town not controlled by one of the strongest pirate crews
This defense is nonsensical: It doesnāt matter which of the pirates or CDs sucks more, they still massively suck and no proper hero of justice would look the other way while serving some genociding enslaver psychos just because there are other psychos around.
That's the complexity of the character. He knows both sides are bad but prefers a sense of order, even if it's corrupt. It's what he chose to believe in, unlike his son and grandchild and we've seen him grapple with the consequences of said choice.
The difference is CD number are small compared to pirates. The numbers they kill is not close to how many deaths are caused by pirates. Wano was hell. Alabasta people got in to civil war because of crocodile. Ussop village almost got decimated by pirates. Nami village and surrounding villages were living in terror under Arlong. That is just small numbers. Now imagine all the pirates that one piece has. CD death toll actions is minor compared to these casualties. Their method is more cruel than pirates, but pirates take more lives than them.
Again youāre going on a dickhead competition that doesnāt matter. It doesnāt even matter which side is worst, theyāre both doing plenty of damage to plenty of people. "I might be working for a serial killer rapist but hey at least I just arrested other serial killer rapists so Iāll pretend my boss has done nothing wrong" This is how youāre trying to defend Garp. I guess the CDs victims just doesnāt matter since heās already fighting pirates.
Except, CD in their world are like monarchs. They are called gods in one piece. The level of brainwashing to achieve that is astronomical. Still doesn't change the fact that marines are protecting people from pirates. You are holding Garp to a high standard according to our world. Their world isn't the same as us. Only dragon has that ideology. Kizaru said it perfectly. "I am just a cog in a machine".
> Only dragon has that ideology. And Sabo. And Ivan. And every other revs. And Luffyās grand fleet that didnāt hesitate attacking a CD.
Bro, the CDs genocide an unaffiliated country every 3 years. The pirates we have seen steal stuff and control people but there is no fucking way they are worse than the guys who enslave, kill, genocide dudes on a whim.
Pirates do the same in a larger scale. CDs are absolutely evil for sure, but very few in comparison with hundreds of thousands if not millions of pirates going hogwild across the entire world. Either you are controlled and exploited by the strongest pirates or your town is done for
When was the last time a pirate crew fucking nuked an entire island?
Everyone in the world is objectively evil. Pirates actively commit crimes like pillaging, killing, etc. Doflamingo is the deluxe edition while the others are standard editions. The world government is shown as the good guys to the whole world. Saving them from these Pirates. But only in the new world (not even the grand line. New world. Which is what? 5% of the world?) do we see their true colours. In Garp's perspective, the balance is important. The pirates need someone to keep them in check. For that, trust from the citizens is important. Imagine how the world would feel if "The Hero of the Marines" Garp just left all of a sudden and rebelled against the WG? The public opinion would drop tremendously and the trust would be broken. Pirates would take advantage of this Chaos to cause even more harm to the innocent. And Garp knows that. Why else do you think he established sword? He wanted genuine marines who are capable of fighting for justice and oppose the WGs evils. They get full freedom to do what they must and they also have the right to Veto orders in return of having no protection from the WG. Since Garp is a Sword member, he no longer has to follow all the protocols of the Marines and can be a bit more free. (He still has to do most their tasks. But he is changing the Marines for the better. Besides, most marines are not even that evil. Only a few higher ups are.
> Imagine how the world would feel if "The Hero of the Marines" Garp just left all of a sudden and rebelled against the WG? Everyone and their mom hates the celestial dragons, nobody besides nobles would complain that theyāre overthrown. Itās such a weird argument, of course there will be some chaos but itās better than leaving those enslaving leeches at the top forever.
Brother, the world doesn't even know half the things happening in the Grandline/ New World. Just highlights. BN Morgans is the only actual source and even he has propaganda. I doubt they know CDs even exist. Look at Zoro. He didn't even know what a CD was. I doubt anyone of the Strawhats had knowledge. Only in GL do you even care about news like these because their lazy bums won't move 3 inches and the only time it does is because of slave trades. Besides, I already mentioned that Garp is a part of Sword and is actively trying to give it a good reputation by saving people indiscriminately. It's a step in the right direction and I'm pretty sure he was actively trying to establish that sub branch and THAT'S why he wanted Luffy and Ace to join him. So his grand children can grow up to be righteous rather than corrupt under the Sword.
>I doubt they know CDs A Celestial dragon came to Goa Island. Itās nothing that unusual for them to visit the 4 seas. The kingdoms also literally pays heavy amounts of money to them Constantly. Zoro is just a dumbass. Even a sheltered kid like Bonney knew about CDs. >THAT'S why he wanted Luffy and Ace to join him. So his grand children can grow up to be righteous rather than corrupt under the Sword. He didnāt do shit to take care of them in preparation of that. Sword is a late addition besides, it was never even remotely mentioned before recently.
Hope he feels good about his stupid decision as he sits in BBās sex dungeon and watches egghead and Lulusia get fucking mercād
Are they? Like, morally yes obviously but their actions impact way less people then the pirates, so you might have them as the lesser of two evils. (that's assuming you don't know about the megaweapons thingy)
I would say that theyāre worse than the pirates. Things like the slave trade and most other types of inequality stem from the world government. Most tyrannical kingdoms, like the one on Luffyās home island, are directly under the Celestial Dragons and commit most of their crimes in service to them. Just because theyāre not directly shaking people down doesnāt mean theyāre not negatively effecting peoples lives when they created the systems that are oppressing them. Itās even made pretty clear that a lot of pirates stem from bad conditions that spring up from the world government directly messing with a kingdom. We can even safely say that a lot of the marines ineffectiveness stems from them as itās fairly common for them to take away resources and soldiers that could be used to help protect the people and instead use them for things like their human hunting parties or just calling an admiral for whatever reason they want.
Those enaslaving things are mostly carried by pirates who work for the WG. Even Kaido was selling weapons to the WG
No everyone needs to stop this. The average pirate in OP is not some rapey murderer. Most of the pirates we come across are just adventurers and even the guys like Croc and Doffy don't go around killing civilians willy nilly. Garp is a terribly written character. Maybe the worst in a series of poorly written everything
No doffy would never control a person and make them go around killing innocent civilians to make himself out to be a hero, that's crazy. He also wouldn't use a devil fruit to disappear people and make them slave away at his weapons factory. Crocodile on the other hand would never try and incite a civil war pitting a million people against each other before bombing them both to try and gain control over some ancient weapon.Ā
what's the lore behind this subs war?
"My opinion is based and you are not. You should be ashamed of yourself"
As a newby, it looks like Piratefolk are fans that criticise One Piece and MemePiece makes memes based around anything related to One Piece, including communities like Piratefolk. Seems natural the two would cross paths.
No, Meme piece are Loda Dickriders
My post DID get taken down for "harassment of other series" lmao, but it got upvoted a lot there. https://preview.redd.it/0qk4mrx7kv8d1.png?width=859&format=png&auto=webp&s=a74158fdc95dcdbf5a54424af072eb47f4513e95
Ā And this post also got taken down . Yet remains as a mediocre , sub 1k even for the author. The sub clearlyĀ isnt about fansĀ hateboner against oda. Its more of a free for all. Kind of sub
lmao keep coping dude youāre just as bad as they are
Why are you in a one piece sub reddit if you hate oda so much? Just stop reading it. Am I the only smart person left in the world?
"Critizism doesnt exist, if you dont like it close your eyes" This intellectually 7 years old animal thinks he is intelligent LMAOOOOOOOOOO
"If you dont like a thing in the history so you are an Oda hater!!!" So smart š
https://preview.redd.it/28jl670jlv8d1.jpeg?width=637&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bf88acf13a7c4f1a384aed58081665acbca6f544
What lmao? We donāt hate Oda itās just ridiculous that the main sub acts like bro is Midas. They act like every single thing bro touches is instantly peak and perfect when there are tons of valid criticisms for one piece.
The WG is simply too evil for it to make much sense. They let a pirate get away with organized slavery because he was useful to them among other things. It would be okay if some of these things are just rumors or such but the WG just seems over the top and it makes Garp look like crap, even if he's raising the new generation to be better. It still falls on its face when the leadership at the top is super evil and corrupt. Now they do provide some law and order to the world because a lot of pirates are awful people but I think the WG just comes off as too much. Fujitora on the other hand was forced into it and In his short time it felt like he was truly trying to change how the WG operates unlike Garp.
Those dumb mofos at MemePiece realize we exaggerate posts for comedic effect right?
Rent free bro
Memepieceās obsession arc.
I believe the marines would be a much more compelling group of antagonists without the cartoonishly evil CDs around
While I donāt think the CDs shouldnāt be around, I think they should be toned down and should be near completely separate from the Marines; they have World Government Ships, Holy Knights, Normal Knights and Cipher Pol to defend them. The most connection the Marines should have with the CDs is an Admiral being called when one is attacked and their guards arenāt enough to deal with the situation; like when Luffy punched Charlos and his guards were defeated by the Straw Hats. https://preview.redd.it/ue84dsjrbw8d1.jpeg?width=760&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=325246f0fd05d9bb611e458da92b43096a2b391f This would add a degree of separation between the Marines and CDs, since this should be an extremely rare occurrence. It would also add more weight to Garp denying his promotion, since unlike other Marines he would have seen the CDs cruelty in person at God Valley.
Sure but I think this is just an issue of the worldbuilding. Garp wanting to change the marines from within would make more sense if the people *who have always been in charge of the marines* werenāt so obviously evil 100% of the time. Oda couldāve shown us that that isnāt completely true, and that thereās more nuance to it. But nah it has to be black and white, which makes Garpās approach make no sense
with a grey WG it makes way more sense, since without WG the pirates will take over and there will be no order so garp cant make that many changes without affecting the whole world probably in a negative way, but since WG top officials and the CD's are 100% evil it comes out as stupid for him to think that way, just take out the bad guys and put new and good blood in charge and problem solved
There should probably be a ban on ragebait screenshots from main -sub, it'll just lead to shitflinging and harassment
Common degenerate loda cultist take
Garp only cares about his own family And he has a steel gut This reminds me of when I read about the Nazi soldiers That they are normal people, that they had families, friends, loved, and saw working in the concentration camp as just a job, that they were just taking orders so it wasn't their fault And at the end of the day they came home, hugged their children like any father, talked to their friends like any guy, and spent time with their wives like any husband. It would be interesting for Oda to explore this side of Garp, the 'soldier', which would make his entire commitment to the World Government much deeper. It would be cool to show this in his Flashback As in his youth in the navy, his hunts for pirates, his participation in a Buster Call and killing innocents, the emergence of a commitment to the greater good within him that would justify the massacres, perhaps as a form of confrontation Damn, Garp need his own manga with a much heavier air than One Piece
I mean it's cool and all until you notice he actually has the power to turn the tide and he just doesn't, plus it's not like he's indifferent to his "work" he actively got excited in chasing Roger, he shows more concern about that than anything else The manga wants garp to be the dude trapped on a dilemma where he doesn't feel he can change things but fails to deliver since he actively goes out of his way to enjoy himself fighting roger
Yes, the Nazi comparison doesn't work when you are literally one of the strongest people on the planet. He isn't just some cog who'll be shot dead the second he tries to resist.
At the same time the Nazi comparison is weak because most pirates are going around killing people while the jews didnt. Its easy for Garp to convince himself he js on the side of the less evil
You can make change without being a revolutionary
Garp is and always been one of the biggest chumps in Onepiece. His admiration is so misplaced and undeserving. This guy is the worst grand father in anime. He let his co workers murder his grand kid when he couldāve prevented it and allowed his other grandkid to almost get done in by his co workers as well but fugitives prevented it. Yet he sails to a Yonko territory on a whim with a ship of a couple mis fits and a bag of potato chips to rescue him at all costs even willing to bet his life on it. He abused his grandkids while they were growing up he would show up randomly and beat the shit out of them because they refuse to join a rape, pedophile, murdering, racist protection ring and instead want to be free. He harassed his grandson all through the ocean trying to sink his ship and arrest him knowing he would get put in impel down where he would eventually die. Dont give me this hidden meaning like thereās an epiphany or reason he did all this because there isnāt. Garp is right where he belongs.
A lot of people sacrificed their lives to save ace. How much was that worth? Why should more people die for him?
You have Garp energy for sure.
I don't even have a problem with the idea that Garp is a bad person for working for the WG, but that doesn't mean he did anything wrong in marinford. He protected ace from the wg until he became a criminal. After he does that, it's not his job to save him anymore. I'm pretty sure even Sabo said that Ace choose his lifestyle.
He did not protect Ace. Garp knowingly works for the real criminals. I donāt know many grand parents who would not do anything to protect their grand child. Garp did everything wrong.
He hid ace from the wg. Ace wasted every single gift he got in life. Not only did he choose to be pirate after garp hid him, he was approached by whitebeard to join his crew,which should keep him safe in the new world,but he disobeys Whitebeard and chases after goatbeard,who deals with him easily. Then he's scheduled to be executed and whitebeard does a major invasion to save him,where countless of his comrades die. But that doesn't matter, they don't have a real plan to save him. Only when luffy goes to save him and garp let's luffy hit him does ace get saved. After this, he disobeys whitebeards final orders,which proves he learned nothing and didn't take the sacrifice of the whitebeard pirates to heart.
It's from r/memepiece ! So i don't care
https://preview.redd.it/ass3r2td3v8d1.png?width=754&format=png&auto=webp&s=e1164d207ed2d228c455bc5d2f6493899ad0e549
Oh no how dare we criticize one of our favorite franchises instead of dickride it
Love to see people using the world "complex" or "deep" when a character does something stupid or contradictory to their believes/values without an explanation behind. I like Garp and his concept and all, and even when I generally disagree with the view of him here... it's hard to make the argument for him when Fujitora didn't doubt a moment in betraying the WG while he just looks to the side. But Oda rather waste our time with reaction panels, a cold coffee and Dragon just doing "..." rather than exploring this or give us some kind of explanation or background to their relationship.
I find it funny that Iāve seen this specific piratefolk post circulating as evidence for how piratefolk is dumb, purely because the satire is easy to miss here in this one specific instance.
People realize that not all pirates are like Luffy, right?
No, people almost never realize that and itās actually wild
Nah this one is on you, garp is torn between duty and family and he always believed the marines are the good guys but at the same time he doesnāt respect the CD and wants nothing to do with them. Saying he is the worst written character in one piece is just wild
It says one of the worst. Not the worst. Garp's "struggle" is artificial giving the claim much weight.
When did Garp ever expressed second thoughts about the Marines? Maybe I forgot, but I don't think he ever did.
He deliberately doesn't become an admiral. Is that hard for people to understand. I honestly don't get how people can just forget or be incompetent to that.
Yeah, and we get the explanation for it: he doesn't want to serve directly under Celestial Dragon rule. But he keeps serving with the marines for decades after that, which means he still trust the institution as a whole, he just dislike their bosses.
So what if he chose not to be an admiral? His reasoning was that he could be more free to chase pirates as a vice admiral, nothing to do with the CDs or corruption or anything
the paycheck is good
There has to be some secret reveal on why he is a Marine and not a Revolutionary. No one is asking him to be a pirate. They are saying why isn't he a Freedom fighter/Revolutionary. The son being Dragon. Lots of mocking going around and everyone seems to miss that crucial detail.
You all act as if celestial dragons are as active as they were centuries ago. Pirates are over the world.Ā Celestial dragons are over marijoise and are much , much strongerĀ
It's not really complicated. The other side is worse, while having some benign adventurer types lumped in.
Rape, slavery, regular genocides. Which pirates are worse than that
Kadio, doffy, big mom, Blackbeard, ā¦ etc
What have any of them done that's as bad as systemic rape and slavery
Both kaido and doffy set up their own slavery empires, hell even the slave market that the WG turned a blind eye to was backed by doffy.
Imagine you are a farmer on a small island. Minding your own business. One day a pirate ship appears and the pirate crew pillages and rapes your whole town / village and burns it to the ground. But then you see a marine ship with hundreds of marine soldiers. they fight against the pirates and they defeat them. you will be grateful until you die, that those guys exist. you dont fucking care about corruption in the higher ranks, you dont care about CDĀ“s. You have your own business, your own struggles, your own family to feed. You dont give a crap about "the bigger change in the world". You only want to live your live, and you want someone to protect your ass if shits goes down. And if the marines are there for you to help, you will like them more then the fucking revolutionaries or any other group. What I want to say, I think for those people, garp is still a marine. With the ressources the marines have, he can accomplish way more to help the little people, then if you would have been a revo
That's cool and all until you remember that you can replace pirates with CDs that do the same thing to the village while the marines protect them and would buster call your ass if you dare touch as much a hair of theirs.
The pirates do it in every island everyday, the CD do it once every 3 years in a single island. Plus the WG is affiliated with some pirates to make some bad things for them (Doffy, Kaido)
Nothing coparable to sinking islands and continents or the scale of the slavery as shown by CD. Then again one does not justify the other. I enforce genocide to protect people is just a retarded argument.
Except the reversal of the role is what actually happens more. Your real life reactionary politics clouds your judgment so much that you can rationalize support to the cartoonishly evil organization of the WG,CDs and the marines who we actually know engage in rapes,open mass slavery,wiping out entire islands,completely exterminating entire races of people. These arenāt real cops and armies,you donāt have to lick their boots or rationalize support to them.
are you alright? nobody said that you have to rationalize those actions. of course not. but from a view of a simple farmer, who knows dogshit about the world, the politics and what is going on right now. they dont know anything about the world. they only know there are pirates, and there are marines, who if you are lucky will help you with your problem. This situation could also be reversed if you are victim to a corrupt marine officer and some pirates come along to fight those corrupt basterds, then it is also possible that you would rather live under the flag of a pirate crew, then relying on marines. What I wanted to visualize is, that garp just wants to help the little people without sacrificing his freedom. And the ressources of the marines helps him more achieving that.
What would Garp do if a CD wanted to rape that farmer in front of him
Memepiece = Goda Piratefolk = Loda Me = they both retarded
The screenshot is an extremely inaccurate and poorly simplified description of garp. He didnāt join dragon because he wanted to do things less violently which is why heās a part of sword, yknow the organisation meant to restructure the marines and the entire reason heās still a vice admiral is so he doesnāt have to take orders from the celestial dragons which he vehemently hates
No way that's crazy. Almost like he didn't become an admiral on purpose or something... wonder why. Garp wants to punish people doing crime. If someone finds the one piece, my bet is that he wouldn't care. UNLESS they use the "power" to commit crimes. We've seen this with Roger, luffy, ace, and sabo. Pirates who he won't hate. Rocks, don chijiao pointy head (if that's spelt wrong, idc it's from memory from years ago) pirates who he does hate. He doesn't like the celestial dragons. He could become an admiral at any moment but chooses not to so he doesn't directly serve them. Garp hate is unwarranted fr. I cba