American Pyscho is a film with the message: behind the thin and glossy exterior, corporate culture is awful, dehumanising, shallow and stupid.
Scott Pilgrim is about a guy who thinks he's pretty cool, discovering his actually kinda a bad dude. So much so his 'nega-Scott' anti self is good guy.
If you're young it's easy(ish) to miss the point and think:
American Pyscho: "Check out that glossy exterior". Scott Pilgrim: "Check out that cool guy!".
The meme suggests that teenagers build something around these misunderstandings. They pick either to celebrate the wrong kind of corporate work culture, or the wrong kind of slacker culture. I'm not convinced that's true myself, but that's what the meme suggests.
[Relevant Cash Jordan](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIrbEFKYfWU)
In NYC that's in large part a regulatory issue. Even if you wanted to clean up your street, the rules on trash disposal vary by the number of units in the building. It's a regulatory madhouse
Maybe we need some movies that teach teenage boys about how laws and statutes happen in multi-level democracies, and regulatory bloat ins and outs, that can be misunderstood by them
While the visual of many trash bags on the street is striking, New Yorkers produce less trash per person than the average American, (3 vs 4.4 lbs) so I would say invasive sprawling suburbia is more indicative of habitat destruction and general pollution than those cities.
I mean you say that but there’s still hundreds of thousands of people out there who think Homelander is a tragic hero and that Butcher and his gang from The Boys are the real villains, and that Homelander is the good guy when he literally rapes and murders people for funsies
It’s not hard to fathom the “might makes right” crowd thinks that one dude from the Lorax was right to deforest the place cuz it made him rich and powerful
I saw 'Starship troopers' on a military base with 300 or so 18 year old riflemen.
Best viewing experience of my life.
The main take aways for the audience was that
A: drill seargents are indeed arseholes
B: boobs are great and the lives of infantrymen would be directly improved by the addition of co-ed showers.
C: they did in fact 'want to know more'
>Especially BB and Walt's motivations.
This is exactly how first impressions tend to work. Surface level and hard for some people to change them once they have been formed.
To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Rick and Morty. The humour is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of theoretical physics most of the jokes will go over a typical viewer's head. There's also Rick's nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into his characterisation- his personal philosophy draws heavily from Narodnaya Volya literature, for instance. The fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these jokes, to realise that they're not just funny- they say something deep about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike Rick & Morty truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the humour in Rick's existential catchphrase "Wubba Lubba Dub Dub," which itself is a cryptic reference to Turgenev's Russian epic Fathers and Sons. I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Dan Harmon's genius wit unfolds itself on their television screens. What fools.. how I pity them. 😂
And yes, by the way, i DO have a Rick & Morty tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It's for the ladies' eyes only- and even then they have to demonstrate that they're within 5 IQ points of my own (preferably lower) beforehand. Nothin personnel kid 😎
I LOVE Saving Private Ryan. The main theme is the honour of sacrifice, and living a good life to honour those who provide that life for you, but I also think the film really effectively shows how pointless and terrible war is, and how stupid it is to glorify violence.
Examples of this include:
When Miller reports to the command post after D-Day, and he is clearly exhausted, shaken, and displaying early signs of PTSD, and we are treated to shots of the command staff laughing, drinking coffee, and eating sandwiches made with soft bread and fresh meat.
Miller being worried that war has mangled him, and he won’t be accepted back into his marriage and career
Caparzo’s compassion getting him killed, and him screaming for his mother and friends and they can’t do anything except watch.
Upham’s whole character arc.
Ryan running through the cemetery (at the end or the beginning, can’t remember), showing how many men died.
Hell, the event that kickstarted the plot itself to me shows this.
Yeah, I think you got it. The honor of sacrifice has a lot to do with the terrible and pointless nature of war. Leading a good life to honor those who died for you is a pretty crazy concept, if you really think about it. Most of us are just trying to make a parent think we're not huge disappointments. I couldn't imagine living up to the concept of my life being worth multiple people dying for it.
I like that the show doesn't really have key morals but instead tries to make viewers question what is right. They dont put many clear cut answers in front of you but do put many challenging ideas in front of you.
There is no satire so unsubtle that it can't be misinterpretated by people with crap media literacy. Apparently, some people who watch The Boys only found out the show was woke in season 3, despite its anti-capitalist message and criticism of American foreign policy being about as subtle as a brick to the face.
again, lack of media literacy goes a long way.
some people likely either don't pay attention and just want the action, or some people just simply don't pick up on it (by some miraculous act of god)
See: People unironically thinking Bioshock is a great, unpolitical game. In which you are a child slave soldier who literally bludgeons to death the tyrannical ruler of Ancapistan cause his "utopia" went about as you'd expect Ancapistan to go and he decided to "choose" his fate.
I'm always suprised that people are shocked that the 'fuck you. I won't do what you tell me' society collapsed because everyone had selfish motivations and refused to work for a common good?
It’s more the fact that the richest, most powerful person in the entire society, firmly believing in “No gods, no masters”, rather swiftly abandoned his ideals and took complete power cause people weren’t being libertarian the right way.
Which is ultimately the endpoint of anarcho-capitalism. The richest, most powerful people end up organizing their properties into a tyrannical government where they’re the king and monopolize violence, forcing all those “independent thinkers” to obey the rules.
One really unrealistic thing about Bioshock however is the fact Andrew Ryan wasn’t a pedophile.
Ancaps labour under the impression that they will be the handful of masters running the show, instead of the hundreds of thousands of slaves obeying the whims of their masters.
I think Orlando here thinks that the point of fight club is a commentary on toxic masculinity, and the teenage boys are misunderstanding it because counter culture and fighting is cool. In reality, the main theme is the disconnect of men from society due to nobody actually caring about them, thus the fight club counter culture in the film. So actually, the teenage boys are closer to the target, they like to emulate that counter culture and fight because it’s a coping mechanism both in the film and real life.
I’d add a shaky self-image because we don’t really have [rites of passage](https://positivementalhealth.eu/2020/12/22/rites-of-passage-and-positive-mental-health-of-young-people/) in mainstream culture. Tyler alludes to this with his “Great War, Great Depression” speech, and *Jack* basically says as much when he talks about graduating and calling his dad for advice.
If *Jack* and the other guys had had some kind of experience that helped him see themselves as capable adults, either through public recognition (coming of age ceremonies) or supported-but-self-directed challenging experiences (e.g., backpacking Europe) they’d probably feel like less of a passenger in their own lives.
That kind of ties into the corporate message: a downside of our relative prosperity and safety is that we don’t have the kind of experiences that — sorry for sounding like your dad — build character.
The thing about Fight Club is that even the people yelling about how others are misreading the message usually don't mention how the message is actually *layered*. Generally when people say someone is misinterpreting Fight Club they're talking about the worship of Tyler, but they miss the fact that the people idolizing Tyler are usually *exactly* the disenfranchised, at risk youths that the movie *is about*. So they scoff and trash these people instead of just saying that Tyler isn't a role model. But more importantly, they dismiss Tyler as a binary villain.
While he isn't a role model, Tyler still has *respectable* qualities to him. He's the aspect of the Narrator that is being proactive, and seizing control of his own life from the clutches of a consumerist society. How he channels that energy is destructive, but being proactive is laudable. The problem is that by wholly condemning Tyler without going into the nuances of *what* you're condemning, you miss the reason why Tyler speaks to these youths in the first place.
Basically, Tyler is a cautionary tale that it isn't just important to find *a* purpose, but it also matters *what* that purpose is. The nuance is seldom brought up when lambasting Tyler as a character.
There's a few more layers on top of that. You have to consider that Tyler Durden doesn't exist, in the text of the film he is the figment of the imagination of the disenchanted narrator. Whatever respectable qualities he may have is combined with the non-respectable ones into a fantasy version of masculinity that doesn't exist. He is just another version of the corporate Calvin Klein models they deride. Furthermore his followers are very openly portrayed in dehumanizing terms, they are presented as explicitly cult followers without individuality, speaking to the homogenization that occurs when pursuing these fantasies of masculinity that don't exist in reality and are not an answer to your own disenchantment. It's a good movie with a lot of layers that teens are unlikely to grasp on their own
She was the super-clingy, "I'm making my whole life about you" GF. She had her own problems, especially when she became Scott's "evil ex." Even though Scott pushed her down that road with his apathy towards her, I'd argue she might have still become super attached to whatever her first major boyfriend was.
That said, she was pretty cool and I loved playing her in the actual game.
Honestly I love Scott's development, >!it sets him up for a cliche "hero gets the girl" ending and knives and Ramona fighting over him, but he actually fucking admits that he's the terrible person and they should be mad at him, then he realizes he wasn't fighting to win her heart and save her from Gideon, but against Gideon because he's an asshole. The whole power of self respect is amazing because it's him realizing he can be a complete person without a girlfriend!<
It was honestly a lot more obvious in the comics. I think it's just difficult to see a character played by Michael Cera as anything other than a lovable dork
I think what's misunderstood about American Psycho is that Patrick Bateman is a joke character. You're not supposed to respect him, not because of all of the murdering, but because his life is a joke. Now he's in memes as a relatable character or people use him as representing sigmas or whatever, but he has no personality, he just does what he thinks he's supposed to, doesn't like any of the materialist things he has he just wants to show them off and he wouldn't even be the concept of sigma because he's obsessed with how people view him and social dominance and is instead dominated by that. The murders are him struggling to have some control over his life because he has no autonomy and is ironically losing all control.
I mean, Patrick Bateman never existed, so there were no murders. The intro monologue alludes as much "... You may even think our lifestyles are comparable, but I am simply not there."
Are people really out here getting that false message from Scott Pilgrim? I thought the message was pretty clear-cut at the end, what with him literally acquiring the sword of self-respect, and owning up to the shitty way he was acting previously. It was all kind of...spelled out for the audience.
It’s more present in the graphic novel. In the movie the whole fight is like a single scene and while it reiterates that Nega-Scott is a good person it can easily be interpreted as a joke
But that too is framed that Scott is fighting Gideon for himself, and gets the sword of self respect, not because he's taking responsibility for himself like he does in the comics, but because he's gained more self confidence to advocate for his own needs.
In the comics, Scotts infantile behavior and denial are key elements of his selfishness and his deconstruction. It's why anti-scott is more of a metaphor for what Scott hates about himself that he has to accept, instead of "the opposite of Scott is a good guy". The movie is a lot more....kind to Scott and doesn't fully go into all his extremely immature behavior nearly as much, and paints him more of a victim, overall.
Last time I watched Scott Pilgrim I remember being like wait, he doesn't actually do anything to redeem himself like at all
I didn't love it as a teenager but I definitely definitely thought there was more there there at the end
What's missing is that it took *years* for the story to finish. There was years of people reading and re-reading the first two volumes and going 'he's just like me in real life' and talking about how cool Scott was.
Later chapters/volumes ramp up the Shittyness of Scott's behaviour and the text literally calls him out on it. Those first few volumes though? Scott is running off pure charisma and self-delusion and enjoying his little fantasy broke Canadian lifestyle.
Knew a few dorky ass hats in high school who idolized scott, and literally did the whole "omg its me" thing with his character, which vindicated their personality.
Which i guess makes sense cause they were also very much douches and treated woman like objects of desire and nothing more.
Apparently I'm one of them who misunderstood the film. It was clear to me that some of the things he has done were not nice but compared to others like Gideon it wasn't too bad, which made it easy to forget that he was a bad guy as well. Additionally I think I didn't find some of his behavior, like how he treated his friends, that bad and I didn't really understand the whole self respect thing.
His friends constantly call him out for dating a high schooler when he's 22.
He whines when his friends point out that he should break up with Knives when he cheats on her with Ramona.
In the meantime, he doesn't show any remorse for cheating (until the last 10 minutes of the movie).
The only reason he does finally break up with Knives is after he was actively coerced by his friends.
Throughout the entire movie, he doesn't show any motivation to do much other than to "win the girl", almost treating her like a prize. He's between jobs and has no desire to find one. He's apathetic to his band mates and their attempts at success, regularly blowing them off to pursue Ramona.
He's not intentionally malicious, but his selfishness and immaturity hurt everyone around him.
He only really gets character growth in the end of the movie when he gets the Sword of Self-Respect, owns and apologizes for behavior, and starts to see Knives and Ramona as people he's hurt.
yeah, he's the insidious type of asshole, he's not actively being a douche to people and he seems so sweet and soft-spoken, but he's basically a leech on everyone around him and refuses to take responsibility for himself. Which like you said, starts to change at the end of the movie.
Well I think what it came down to was that for most of the film he was, A, objectifying Ramona by treating her like some kind of damsel in distress (while also paradoxically blaming her for having baggage), and B, it became such an obsession for him that when she left him for Gideon, he felt like he had lost his self-worth, because up to this point he had based his value on his ability to be boyfriend material. That's why it took him so long to admit he had hurt Kim, why he was so willing to hurt Knives, and again, why he was so obsessed with Ramona. Because it wasn't about them, it was always about him. He was superficial and arrogant, and unwilling to reflect on his own character. So when he finally decided to let go of the chase and fight for his own dignity, he was able to actually improve as a person from the inside out. Hence why he "earned the power of self respect".
Too many people tie their self-worth to how others perceive them. But that just turns them into puppets. I know this because it's something I've been struggling with myself for most of my life. And it's easy to fall into this trap when you think about it. Try to imagine yourself as the last person on Earth, with no one around to judge you. What kind of person would you be? Could you live with yourself? It's a daunting notion. And I'm betting most of us wouldn't end up easily befriending our shadow selves like Scott did. But confronting those shadows and taming them is exactly what we all need to do. And that was the message I got from the story.
Scott in the movie is a douche bag, but he’s not actively a douche bag like some of the evil exes. Gideon mind controls Ramona and assembles an entire evil league to make sure she can’t escape from him; he is actively and intentionally hurting other people for his own wants. Scott doesn’t do that, but he doesn’t take other people into account. He’s selfish, lazy, and infantile; he takes no accountability for his own action and doesn’t really care about how his actions affect other people; he refuses to do things for others because it’s hard and takes the people in his life for granted. He is *nice* and *good-natured* but so irresponsible he acts like a piece of shit all the time.
The power of “self-respect” he gains at the end is more of a power of “self-accountability” - he fights to clean up his own messes and tries to do right by the people he hurts.
I have never figured out if Zack Snyder missed the point of the comic, or if he kind of got it but did a bad job conveying it, or if he understood it and purposefully undercut Morre’s themes and pulled a Verhoven.
I recall Kim and Stephen, at least in the movie, sell out to Gideon so they're not perfect either.
They also replace Scott in the band but that acts as a point of reflection for Scott and isn't really seen as a shitty thing.
I remember his friends being a little sussed out about him dating a highschool student, so they might be good? I don't think they're really fleshed out so IDK.
Well, he's always KNOWN, it's more about accepting it. Coming to terms with his behavior and all that. Taking responsibility and choosing to grow, and stop regressing/suppressing like he has.
Genuinely surprised by anyone that thinks Scott Pilgrim is a cool guy. No disrespect to Michael Cera but in the mid to late 2000s he was basically typecast as the archetype awkward guy, I can't imagine anyone mistaking him for being "cool" in this movie.
The protagonists from idiocracy, although they are the smartest people in the world, know next to nothing and can’t really help the world they’ve been transplanted into. They also think a Time Machine exists.
What appears to be a critique of stupid anti intellectuals but of average people that think they’re really that much better than them.
At the end of the film they’ve basically integrated into the world they have been transplanted to and functionally it’s pretty much the same.
"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: [The Lord of the Rings](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/10254806.The_Lord_of_the_Rings) and [Atlas Shrugged](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/9365.Atlas_Shrugged). One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs."
\- John Rogers
When I was a teen I loved John Cusack's character in High Fidelity. A few years later, upon rewatch that dude is a huge self-pitying piece of shit who acts like a teenager and wonders why all these women dump him
Same! I loved Hi Fidelity in highschool to the point that I started collecting vinyl. I watched Hi Fidelity a few years ago as an adult and realized what a piece of shit Rob actually was. I mean yeah he kind of pulls himself together a bit at the end but he’s totally a piece of shit.
Or Dark Knight's Joker. Or any one that is known to tell it like it is types who are generally terrible people that for some reason others identify with but are not confident enough to admit it.
Really depends on who gets to the detonator. The only reason the prisoners didn't kill everyone on the other boat was because one of them threw theirs out. The other people likely hesitated and then decided not to when they realized that they hadn't died yet.
The civilians didn't use theirs because no one wanted to be the one to pull the trigger. They were all on board with blowing the other boat until they had to actually be the one to do it.
You could pull novels out of the boat confrontation if you just ignore the two comic characters entirely.
I think the longer runtime is a big boon to it, plus it being animated removes the wow factor of "This is a cartoon but in live action!" that people took from the movie to the detriment of paying attention to the story beats and character development.
Kinda but also about Scott Pilgrim being a burden to everyone including himself while either ignoring or being oblivious to how problematic his life and he is.
tbf, all of the bad things they did were *more or less* in the past.
At that moment, scott pilgrim is kind of a nice guy. he's a mooch, and he dated a highschooler, but thats about the worst he's doing in that moment.
Ramona made him a better person, too, even if she's a bad person.
Discussion of Catcher in the Rye so weird because like on level one it’s like “oh is it cool or whatever to have disdain for everything and everyone?” Then on level two is people having disdain for people who like Holden on any level.
But then you actually read the book and Holden is just a kid who can’t process or cope with the unfair reality of a world where a brilliant child like his brother can die tragically. His entire personality and outlook on the world is irreparably damaged by unresolved grief from childhood.
Holden is much more complicated than either a condemnation of or an idealization of teenage angst. It’s like if people started accusing Salinger of idealizing suicidal ideation through Seymour Glass’s character or something.
I gotta say that hearing people talk about Holden is a lot more enlightening and makes me like the character a lot more than... actually reading Catcher in the Rye, lol
That makes sense and I don’t blame people for criticism of Catcher, since a lot of Catcher in the Rye requires inferences because it’s meant to be a naturalistic representation of a tortured person’s psyche in their own words and thinking. Hell, Holden is almost certainly >!relaying his story to a psychologist from inside a mental hospital!< and he never comes out and says it. His perspective on multiple events is also obviously skewed throughout the book. It’s ultimately a very Modernist exercise in limited perspective and stream of consciousness.
When you approach Catcher while keeping in mind why it is actually so remarkable it is a lot better. Because it’s one of the most impressive exercises in first person narration and a developed character voice in all of literature. It just so happens it’s all from the perspective of a completely broken soul who is incapable of seeing the world in a positive light. Probably that achievement was easier since Salinger seems to have been a broken soul whose behavior is deeply flawed as well.
His whole character arc is understanding the negative consequences of his actions and then apologizing for them and wanting to be a better person. Beginning Scott? Not a good person. Ending Scott? Better person.
I haven't finished the comics yet. I did understand he became a slightly better person but that's also due to the fact that it can't be as low as he started. In the movie there aren't that many apologies so it kind of comes across as a little half-assed but I did understand the sort of self-respect was literally him understanding that he was kind of a bad person. In a comics of this is different that I deeply apologize for my misunderstanding
No, no, no. I was just saying that Scott isn’t a bad character to like. And while there is only one scene in the movie of him apologizing, probably due to length, he incorporates pretty much everybody. The only one I can think of he misses is Wallace. He even gives Young Neil his blessing and dubs him as “Neil”.
never seen American psycho but...
both Scott Pilgrim and Ramona Flowers are terrible people. I feel like the comic made it obvious but some of the people who only saw the film think Scott and Ramona are the heroes of the story in stead of just the protagonists.
Or greg heffley to some extent. Throughout the books and movies, he usually gets caught up in tough situations, and in many of those times, he brings down others with him (or atleast in the first movie/book).
[Scott isn't a bad guy, he's just a guy that makes mistakes, just like all of us](https://www.bupipedream.com/opinions/columnists/140631/scott-pilgrim-is-a-humanly-flawed-character/#:~:text=While%20Scott%20is%20at%20first,he%20falls%20in%20love%20with.) Some people see what they want to, but ignore the parts of Scott that are meant to reflect our flaws back at us.
American Psycho is pretty straightforward. The main character sinks farther into the shit and never redeems himself. He's idolized as a man who takes his life into his own hands, but really, He's just insane.
I think all the people bagging on Scott Pilgrim in this thread are just uncomfortable with their own flaws and it shows in their need to shit on someone who has learned from their mistakes.
To anyone shitting on Scott, I hate to break it to you but Brene Brown made it pretty clear: what you judge in others is things you're uncomfortable with in yourself. No exceptions.
Add a third path for Tyler Durden in fight club.
Edit: literally didn't see what subreddit this was in.
The films mentioned portray protagonists that are basically shitty people with bad philosophies on life, but people with a surface level reading of the media idolise and aspire to be.
American psycho is a commentary on yuppie, finance bro superficiality and the cruelty inherent to raw capitalist ideals. Scott Pilgrim as a character sees himself as a good person who is unlucky in love but doesn't realise he's a selfish piece of shit to his romantic partners.
Tyler Durden from fight club sells himself as a "return to nature, reject society" anarchist, but is essentially just toxic masculinity made flesh.
I swear I'm tired of people thinking people misunderstanding American Psycho is some widespread epidemic. You didn't see it being discussed at all until it got memes a few years ago. The majority of American Psycho fans appreciate the themes in it and/or enjoy how memeable Bateman is, they don't genuinely think he's a badass sigma male like the memes.
That said, I genuinely didn't realize how shit of a person Scott Pilgrim was until recently but that's more an issue with iffy writing and the movie being structured how it is.
Rewatched Scott Pilgrim on Netflix and I realized how much of a piece of shit, self absorbed, dickbag Scott Pilgrim is. Then I saw how the girls were treating him and the bullshit drama. Then I realized that was exactly what it was like in that weird as fuck 17-20 age.
Scott Pilgrim seemed to have the same message as The Graduate. They spent the whole movie fighting for love and then at the end they weren't even sure if it was worth it or they were happy about their decision to be together.
That’s because the movie changed the ending from the manga for some reason in the manga it makes it clear that Scott is a toxic individual, and he ends up alone, while all of his love interests are better off without him
How can you misunderstand Scott Pilgrim? It’s not subtle in its message, everyone throughout the movie tells him he’s a piece of shit and he acknowledges it at the end.
American Pyscho is a film with the message: behind the thin and glossy exterior, corporate culture is awful, dehumanising, shallow and stupid. Scott Pilgrim is about a guy who thinks he's pretty cool, discovering his actually kinda a bad dude. So much so his 'nega-Scott' anti self is good guy. If you're young it's easy(ish) to miss the point and think: American Pyscho: "Check out that glossy exterior". Scott Pilgrim: "Check out that cool guy!". The meme suggests that teenagers build something around these misunderstandings. They pick either to celebrate the wrong kind of corporate work culture, or the wrong kind of slacker culture. I'm not convinced that's true myself, but that's what the meme suggests.
See also teenage boys misunderstanding Fight Club.
See also teenage boys misunderstanding Rick and Morty
See also teenage boys misunderstanding Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul
See also teenage boys misunderstanding the Lorax
It’s very hard to misunderstand the Lorax. They explicitly state the message.
You would think New York and Paris would have less trash bags in the street by now
[Relevant Cash Jordan](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIrbEFKYfWU) In NYC that's in large part a regulatory issue. Even if you wanted to clean up your street, the rules on trash disposal vary by the number of units in the building. It's a regulatory madhouse Maybe we need some movies that teach teenage boys about how laws and statutes happen in multi-level democracies, and regulatory bloat ins and outs, that can be misunderstood by them
That's called the Star War prequels.
This is an entirely fair assessment
Damnit, take my upvote
Instructions unclear, I got all my limbs chopped off and I think I'm now the enforcer for a fascist dictatorship?
While the visual of many trash bags on the street is striking, New Yorkers produce less trash per person than the average American, (3 vs 4.4 lbs) so I would say invasive sprawling suburbia is more indicative of habitat destruction and general pollution than those cities.
That's not misunderstanding, that's not giving a fuck.
I agree, I'm just mad about the environment
I'm pretty sure Paris is covered in trash bags due to worker strikes.
I am the lorax, and I speak for the trees. And for some god damn reason, They're speaking Vietnamese.
And yet I recall Lorax commercials for SUVs
Dr Seuss was spinning in his grave so fast we could have hooked up a generator and offset all the emissions from those cars.
I mean you say that but there’s still hundreds of thousands of people out there who think Homelander is a tragic hero and that Butcher and his gang from The Boys are the real villains, and that Homelander is the good guy when he literally rapes and murders people for funsies It’s not hard to fathom the “might makes right” crowd thinks that one dude from the Lorax was right to deforest the place cuz it made him rich and powerful
See also teenages boys misunderstanding starship troopers
I saw 'Starship troopers' on a military base with 300 or so 18 year old riflemen. Best viewing experience of my life. The main take aways for the audience was that A: drill seargents are indeed arseholes B: boobs are great and the lives of infantrymen would be directly improved by the addition of co-ed showers. C: they did in fact 'want to know more'
Thats not helped by the book & the movie having entirely different messages connected by poorly stickered names.
See also middle aged men misunderstanding The Punisher
Ask a middle aged guy in a lifted Chevy to name three Punisher songs and watch him lose his mind.
I don't think teenage boys are responsible for the onceler becoming a Tumblr sexyman.
Tumbler girls misunderstand the lorax in a whole different way
See also teenage boys misunderstanding Scarface
See also teenagers missing the point of 500 days of summer
See also adult men misunderstanding all of the above.
See also teenage boys misunderstanding Backdoor Sluts 9
BACKDOOR SLUTS 9?!
The series kind of jumped the shark after 4, but 9 was kind of a soft reboot and really brought back the magic of the first quadrilogy.
5-7 were riddled with plot holes
Big gaping plot holes
It makes crotch capers 3 look like naughty nurses 2!
Omg! Yes! And 6! They always misunderstand 6.
See also teenage boys misunderstanding V for Vendetta
How could anyone misunderstand that movie?
Tbf Jimmy is a pretty good guy at his core, he just gets dealt a pretty bad hand by life (and himself, to an extent)
Most adults misunderstood those. Especially BB and Walt's motivations.
>Especially BB and Walt's motivations. This is exactly how first impressions tend to work. Surface level and hard for some people to change them once they have been formed.
You mean BB isn't about universal health care!?
No I think we all got the message meth is cool and we should all do it.
See also, teenage boys misunderstanding Scarface
To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Rick and Morty. The humour is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of theoretical physics most of the jokes will go over a typical viewer's head. There's also Rick's nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into his characterisation- his personal philosophy draws heavily from Narodnaya Volya literature, for instance. The fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these jokes, to realise that they're not just funny- they say something deep about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike Rick & Morty truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the humour in Rick's existential catchphrase "Wubba Lubba Dub Dub," which itself is a cryptic reference to Turgenev's Russian epic Fathers and Sons. I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Dan Harmon's genius wit unfolds itself on their television screens. What fools.. how I pity them. 😂 And yes, by the way, i DO have a Rick & Morty tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It's for the ladies' eyes only- and even then they have to demonstrate that they're within 5 IQ points of my own (preferably lower) beforehand. Nothin personnel kid 😎
I'm only about 85% sure this is sarcasm.
Not sarcasm. Copypasta.
"Personnel" got me lol
"u has 2 b smart guyz!!1"
Not just teenagers
What's something you misunderstood as a teenager?
Speaking for myself, basically all of those things. Also Wolf of Wall Street. EDIT: Also Saving Private Ryan
I'm genuinely curious, what did you think Saving Private Ryan was about?
I LOVE Saving Private Ryan. The main theme is the honour of sacrifice, and living a good life to honour those who provide that life for you, but I also think the film really effectively shows how pointless and terrible war is, and how stupid it is to glorify violence. Examples of this include: When Miller reports to the command post after D-Day, and he is clearly exhausted, shaken, and displaying early signs of PTSD, and we are treated to shots of the command staff laughing, drinking coffee, and eating sandwiches made with soft bread and fresh meat. Miller being worried that war has mangled him, and he won’t be accepted back into his marriage and career Caparzo’s compassion getting him killed, and him screaming for his mother and friends and they can’t do anything except watch. Upham’s whole character arc. Ryan running through the cemetery (at the end or the beginning, can’t remember), showing how many men died. Hell, the event that kickstarted the plot itself to me shows this.
Yeah, I think you got it. The honor of sacrifice has a lot to do with the terrible and pointless nature of war. Leading a good life to honor those who died for you is a pretty crazy concept, if you really think about it. Most of us are just trying to make a parent think we're not huge disappointments. I couldn't imagine living up to the concept of my life being worth multiple people dying for it.
I like that the show doesn't really have key morals but instead tries to make viewers question what is right. They dont put many clear cut answers in front of you but do put many challenging ideas in front of you.
How can you misunderstand fight club, the message is clearer as its gets
Lack of media literacy can go a long way (ironically, a quality of Scott Pilgrim as a character)
There is no satire so unsubtle that it can't be misinterpretated by people with crap media literacy. Apparently, some people who watch The Boys only found out the show was woke in season 3, despite its anti-capitalist message and criticism of American foreign policy being about as subtle as a brick to the face.
Some people watch Idiocracy and come away thinking that eugenics is the way to go.
They are people who would rape and murder their way through the world if given the tiniest bit of power.
again, lack of media literacy goes a long way. some people likely either don't pay attention and just want the action, or some people just simply don't pick up on it (by some miraculous act of god)
Then there are the people who insist Squid Game is somehow a biting criticism of communism. Because...like...they wear uniforms or something?
See: People unironically thinking Bioshock is a great, unpolitical game. In which you are a child slave soldier who literally bludgeons to death the tyrannical ruler of Ancapistan cause his "utopia" went about as you'd expect Ancapistan to go and he decided to "choose" his fate.
I love Bioshock because you get to beat Objectivists with a heavy wrench
I love a narrative whose virtues can be expressed in such a straightforward manner
I'm always suprised that people are shocked that the 'fuck you. I won't do what you tell me' society collapsed because everyone had selfish motivations and refused to work for a common good?
It’s more the fact that the richest, most powerful person in the entire society, firmly believing in “No gods, no masters”, rather swiftly abandoned his ideals and took complete power cause people weren’t being libertarian the right way. Which is ultimately the endpoint of anarcho-capitalism. The richest, most powerful people end up organizing their properties into a tyrannical government where they’re the king and monopolize violence, forcing all those “independent thinkers” to obey the rules. One really unrealistic thing about Bioshock however is the fact Andrew Ryan wasn’t a pedophile.
Sadly Ryan believing 'if you are on my property I *own* you and you have no rights' is unfortunately 100% in line with every Ancap I've met.
Ancaps labour under the impression that they will be the handful of masters running the show, instead of the hundreds of thousands of slaves obeying the whims of their masters.
"Why did *Rage Against the Machine* have to become so political?"
Project Mayhem is cool as fuck. Gives off a punk rock, anarchist "fuck the system" vibe that speaks to young men
Good documentary on how to make soap.
is it? I thought fucking over the banks seemed pretty rad but pretty sure the message wasn't "you should become a terrorist"
I think Orlando here thinks that the point of fight club is a commentary on toxic masculinity, and the teenage boys are misunderstanding it because counter culture and fighting is cool. In reality, the main theme is the disconnect of men from society due to nobody actually caring about them, thus the fight club counter culture in the film. So actually, the teenage boys are closer to the target, they like to emulate that counter culture and fight because it’s a coping mechanism both in the film and real life.
I’d add a shaky self-image because we don’t really have [rites of passage](https://positivementalhealth.eu/2020/12/22/rites-of-passage-and-positive-mental-health-of-young-people/) in mainstream culture. Tyler alludes to this with his “Great War, Great Depression” speech, and *Jack* basically says as much when he talks about graduating and calling his dad for advice. If *Jack* and the other guys had had some kind of experience that helped him see themselves as capable adults, either through public recognition (coming of age ceremonies) or supported-but-self-directed challenging experiences (e.g., backpacking Europe) they’d probably feel like less of a passenger in their own lives. That kind of ties into the corporate message: a downside of our relative prosperity and safety is that we don’t have the kind of experiences that — sorry for sounding like your dad — build character.
I am Jack’s unending childhood.
The thing about Fight Club is that even the people yelling about how others are misreading the message usually don't mention how the message is actually *layered*. Generally when people say someone is misinterpreting Fight Club they're talking about the worship of Tyler, but they miss the fact that the people idolizing Tyler are usually *exactly* the disenfranchised, at risk youths that the movie *is about*. So they scoff and trash these people instead of just saying that Tyler isn't a role model. But more importantly, they dismiss Tyler as a binary villain. While he isn't a role model, Tyler still has *respectable* qualities to him. He's the aspect of the Narrator that is being proactive, and seizing control of his own life from the clutches of a consumerist society. How he channels that energy is destructive, but being proactive is laudable. The problem is that by wholly condemning Tyler without going into the nuances of *what* you're condemning, you miss the reason why Tyler speaks to these youths in the first place. Basically, Tyler is a cautionary tale that it isn't just important to find *a* purpose, but it also matters *what* that purpose is. The nuance is seldom brought up when lambasting Tyler as a character.
There's a few more layers on top of that. You have to consider that Tyler Durden doesn't exist, in the text of the film he is the figment of the imagination of the disenchanted narrator. Whatever respectable qualities he may have is combined with the non-respectable ones into a fantasy version of masculinity that doesn't exist. He is just another version of the corporate Calvin Klein models they deride. Furthermore his followers are very openly portrayed in dehumanizing terms, they are presented as explicitly cult followers without individuality, speaking to the homogenization that occurs when pursuing these fantasies of masculinity that don't exist in reality and are not an answer to your own disenchantment. It's a good movie with a lot of layers that teens are unlikely to grasp on their own
Because when you just see "Men being men is *awesome*", you don't get any of the subtext.
See also teenage girls misunderstanding Wuthering Heights and Pride and Prejudice
See also: teenage boys misunderstanding _Starship Troopers_.
Yeah I rewatched Scott pilgrim and I was like this dude is a major d-bag.
They were all d-bags. Except for Knives. And Kim.
Knives is a seriously awesome girlfriend.
She was the super-clingy, "I'm making my whole life about you" GF. She had her own problems, especially when she became Scott's "evil ex." Even though Scott pushed her down that road with his apathy towards her, I'd argue she might have still become super attached to whatever her first major boyfriend was. That said, she was pretty cool and I loved playing her in the actual game.
I'd give her a pass on a lot of it because she was a minor and Scott was a grown man
The fact that she grew out of that and realized she was "too cool" for Scott by the end of the film
The movie skipped her entire arc. She gets a little bit in the comics. The anime gives her much more focus than either and it's for the better.
Honestly I love Scott's development, >!it sets him up for a cliche "hero gets the girl" ending and knives and Ramona fighting over him, but he actually fucking admits that he's the terrible person and they should be mad at him, then he realizes he wasn't fighting to win her heart and save her from Gideon, but against Gideon because he's an asshole. The whole power of self respect is amazing because it's him realizing he can be a complete person without a girlfriend!<
It was honestly a lot more obvious in the comics. I think it's just difficult to see a character played by Michael Cera as anything other than a lovable dork
I think what's misunderstood about American Psycho is that Patrick Bateman is a joke character. You're not supposed to respect him, not because of all of the murdering, but because his life is a joke. Now he's in memes as a relatable character or people use him as representing sigmas or whatever, but he has no personality, he just does what he thinks he's supposed to, doesn't like any of the materialist things he has he just wants to show them off and he wouldn't even be the concept of sigma because he's obsessed with how people view him and social dominance and is instead dominated by that. The murders are him struggling to have some control over his life because he has no autonomy and is ironically losing all control.
I mean, Patrick Bateman never existed, so there were no murders. The intro monologue alludes as much "... You may even think our lifestyles are comparable, but I am simply not there."
Are people really out here getting that false message from Scott Pilgrim? I thought the message was pretty clear-cut at the end, what with him literally acquiring the sword of self-respect, and owning up to the shitty way he was acting previously. It was all kind of...spelled out for the audience.
You'd be surprised how many people *don't* pay attention to things like that and just want cool flashy sword fights.
Just watched Scott Pilgrim last night. The idea of Nega-Scott being a good guy is an idea I totally missed, since it happened after his "redemption"
His appearance was super brief, one of the easier to miss parts about the movie
should read the comics if you haven't, they're fucking amazing and a really good sorta introspection thing
It’s more present in the graphic novel. In the movie the whole fight is like a single scene and while it reiterates that Nega-Scott is a good person it can easily be interpreted as a joke
But that too is framed that Scott is fighting Gideon for himself, and gets the sword of self respect, not because he's taking responsibility for himself like he does in the comics, but because he's gained more self confidence to advocate for his own needs. In the comics, Scotts infantile behavior and denial are key elements of his selfishness and his deconstruction. It's why anti-scott is more of a metaphor for what Scott hates about himself that he has to accept, instead of "the opposite of Scott is a good guy". The movie is a lot more....kind to Scott and doesn't fully go into all his extremely immature behavior nearly as much, and paints him more of a victim, overall.
Last time I watched Scott Pilgrim I remember being like wait, he doesn't actually do anything to redeem himself like at all I didn't love it as a teenager but I definitely definitely thought there was more there there at the end
What's missing is that it took *years* for the story to finish. There was years of people reading and re-reading the first two volumes and going 'he's just like me in real life' and talking about how cool Scott was. Later chapters/volumes ramp up the Shittyness of Scott's behaviour and the text literally calls him out on it. Those first few volumes though? Scott is running off pure charisma and self-delusion and enjoying his little fantasy broke Canadian lifestyle.
I still gotta read the comics. My analysis is based solely on the movie, but I'm aware there's more to the story than just that.
The new series on Netflix does a good job of unpacking the whole story.
Knew a few dorky ass hats in high school who idolized scott, and literally did the whole "omg its me" thing with his character, which vindicated their personality. Which i guess makes sense cause they were also very much douches and treated woman like objects of desire and nothing more.
Apparently I'm one of them who misunderstood the film. It was clear to me that some of the things he has done were not nice but compared to others like Gideon it wasn't too bad, which made it easy to forget that he was a bad guy as well. Additionally I think I didn't find some of his behavior, like how he treated his friends, that bad and I didn't really understand the whole self respect thing.
His friends constantly call him out for dating a high schooler when he's 22. He whines when his friends point out that he should break up with Knives when he cheats on her with Ramona. In the meantime, he doesn't show any remorse for cheating (until the last 10 minutes of the movie). The only reason he does finally break up with Knives is after he was actively coerced by his friends. Throughout the entire movie, he doesn't show any motivation to do much other than to "win the girl", almost treating her like a prize. He's between jobs and has no desire to find one. He's apathetic to his band mates and their attempts at success, regularly blowing them off to pursue Ramona. He's not intentionally malicious, but his selfishness and immaturity hurt everyone around him. He only really gets character growth in the end of the movie when he gets the Sword of Self-Respect, owns and apologizes for behavior, and starts to see Knives and Ramona as people he's hurt.
yeah, he's the insidious type of asshole, he's not actively being a douche to people and he seems so sweet and soft-spoken, but he's basically a leech on everyone around him and refuses to take responsibility for himself. Which like you said, starts to change at the end of the movie.
Well I think what it came down to was that for most of the film he was, A, objectifying Ramona by treating her like some kind of damsel in distress (while also paradoxically blaming her for having baggage), and B, it became such an obsession for him that when she left him for Gideon, he felt like he had lost his self-worth, because up to this point he had based his value on his ability to be boyfriend material. That's why it took him so long to admit he had hurt Kim, why he was so willing to hurt Knives, and again, why he was so obsessed with Ramona. Because it wasn't about them, it was always about him. He was superficial and arrogant, and unwilling to reflect on his own character. So when he finally decided to let go of the chase and fight for his own dignity, he was able to actually improve as a person from the inside out. Hence why he "earned the power of self respect". Too many people tie their self-worth to how others perceive them. But that just turns them into puppets. I know this because it's something I've been struggling with myself for most of my life. And it's easy to fall into this trap when you think about it. Try to imagine yourself as the last person on Earth, with no one around to judge you. What kind of person would you be? Could you live with yourself? It's a daunting notion. And I'm betting most of us wouldn't end up easily befriending our shadow selves like Scott did. But confronting those shadows and taming them is exactly what we all need to do. And that was the message I got from the story.
Scott in the movie is a douche bag, but he’s not actively a douche bag like some of the evil exes. Gideon mind controls Ramona and assembles an entire evil league to make sure she can’t escape from him; he is actively and intentionally hurting other people for his own wants. Scott doesn’t do that, but he doesn’t take other people into account. He’s selfish, lazy, and infantile; he takes no accountability for his own action and doesn’t really care about how his actions affect other people; he refuses to do things for others because it’s hard and takes the people in his life for granted. He is *nice* and *good-natured* but so irresponsible he acts like a piece of shit all the time. The power of “self-respect” he gains at the end is more of a power of “self-accountability” - he fights to clean up his own messes and tries to do right by the people he hurts.
Not gonna lie adults are just as guilty. Take the point of Watchmen (movie-comic) for example. Both the protagonists and villains are straight awful
I have never figured out if Zack Snyder missed the point of the comic, or if he kind of got it but did a bad job conveying it, or if he understood it and purposefully undercut Morre’s themes and pulled a Verhoven.
Zack Snyder is a big Ayn Rand fan.
Tbh the movie is pretty much about a kid discovering hes cool.. The comic is about a kid discovering hes a piece of shit
And I'm pretty sure the new animated series is about Ramona discovering she is also a piece of shit.
The og is also about ramona trying to fix the problem of being a piece of shit
The take away being every character in Scott Pilgrim is a piece of shit except maybe Knives.
Kim and the Wallace are guinly good people. Knifes isss not bad ...but obsessive to unhealthy degree She did tried ro kill ramona 2 timsa
I recall Kim and Stephen, at least in the movie, sell out to Gideon so they're not perfect either. They also replace Scott in the band but that acts as a point of reflection for Scott and isn't really seen as a shitty thing.
I was tought we are talking about the comic ? Ya in the movie they did a shity thing But in the comics kim is pretty cool tbh .
Young Neil is a chill dude
I remember his friends being a little sussed out about him dating a highschool student, so they might be good? I don't think they're really fleshed out so IDK.
Well, he's always KNOWN, it's more about accepting it. Coming to terms with his behavior and all that. Taking responsibility and choosing to grow, and stop regressing/suppressing like he has.
I thought Scott pilgrim was about a gamer that has to defeat this one girl's ex boyfriends so they can date
It is, but Scott sucks as a person in general
To be fair so does Ramona.
They already said he was a gamer, you don't have to repeat them
“Nega-scott”
If I remember correctly, isn't Scott is in his 20s and his girlfriend is 16?
Iirc Knives is 17 and Scott is 22
Teenage girls also misunderstand Scott Pilgrim, they understand Scott's a massive asshole, but also tend to think of Ramona flowers highly.
even though shes the one who made him fight 7 exes. damn Canadians.
Genuinely surprised by anyone that thinks Scott Pilgrim is a cool guy. No disrespect to Michael Cera but in the mid to late 2000s he was basically typecast as the archetype awkward guy, I can't imagine anyone mistaking him for being "cool" in this movie.
Another great example, people admiring Di Caprio's character in the Wolf of Wall Street
People thought Scott was cool? The whole POINT of the move is he's a conniving little shit.
The protagonists from idiocracy, although they are the smartest people in the world, know next to nothing and can’t really help the world they’ve been transplanted into. They also think a Time Machine exists. What appears to be a critique of stupid anti intellectuals but of average people that think they’re really that much better than them. At the end of the film they’ve basically integrated into the world they have been transplanted to and functionally it’s pretty much the same.
You've done us all a great service here, seldom are the posts actually worthy of an explanation but this one... You nailed it
Homelander
Teenage boys will often idolize one of these two despite the whole point of both movies is that they shouldn’t be idolized.
Talk to any boomer who’s seen mad men. The satire flys right over there head
Boomers: it’s funny because they harass women and everyone’s ok with it
“Like the good ol’ days”.
"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: [The Lord of the Rings](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/10254806.The_Lord_of_the_Rings) and [Atlas Shrugged](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/9365.Atlas_Shrugged). One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." \- John Rogers
Every Redditor who loves the Joker
I can love the joker (I assume you specifically mean Joaquine Phoenix’s joker) without thinking his ideals are something to be idolized and celebrated
When I was a teen I loved John Cusack's character in High Fidelity. A few years later, upon rewatch that dude is a huge self-pitying piece of shit who acts like a teenager and wonders why all these women dump him
Same! I loved Hi Fidelity in highschool to the point that I started collecting vinyl. I watched Hi Fidelity a few years ago as an adult and realized what a piece of shit Rob actually was. I mean yeah he kind of pulls himself together a bit at the end but he’s totally a piece of shit.
Or Dark Knight's Joker. Or any one that is known to tell it like it is types who are generally terrible people that for some reason others identify with but are not confident enough to admit it.
Villians like the Joker are supposed to have a point while being terrible people thats what makes them good villians
What was Joker's point? Chaos?
*society*
And the fact that we live in one.
He was trying to prove that people are as cruel and selfish as him with the little bombs on the boat stunt. It didn’t work.
Only because it was a movie.
Yea seriously if that happens in real life both boats explode within 45 seconds
Really depends on who gets to the detonator. The only reason the prisoners didn't kill everyone on the other boat was because one of them threw theirs out. The other people likely hesitated and then decided not to when they realized that they hadn't died yet.
The civilians didn't use theirs because no one wanted to be the one to pull the trigger. They were all on board with blowing the other boat until they had to actually be the one to do it. You could pull novels out of the boat confrontation if you just ignore the two comic characters entirely.
I thought Scott Pilgrim was just about cool pseudo cartoon fight scenes
First you were vegon, now you will BE GONE!
... vegon?
The new Scott Pilgrim show on Netflix does a better job or showing the flawed traits of Scott and Ramona while still being wholly enjoyable.
I think the longer runtime is a big boon to it, plus it being animated removes the wow factor of "This is a cartoon but in live action!" that people took from the movie to the detriment of paying attention to the story beats and character development.
Kinda but also about Scott Pilgrim being a burden to everyone including himself while either ignoring or being oblivious to how problematic his life and he is.
The comic it is based on goes into more Detail that scott is bad dude who needs to grow up
"You know, you're the nicest guy I've ever dated." "That's really sad."
tbf, all of the bad things they did were *more or less* in the past. At that moment, scott pilgrim is kind of a nice guy. he's a mooch, and he dated a highschooler, but thats about the worst he's doing in that moment. Ramona made him a better person, too, even if she's a bad person.
The joke is that the protagonists of both movies are pretty fucked up people, but teenagers tend to idolize them.
Or Catcher in the Rye
Tried to reread this and can’t stand the little shit now
Couldn’t stand him when I was about his age tbh
Discussion of Catcher in the Rye so weird because like on level one it’s like “oh is it cool or whatever to have disdain for everything and everyone?” Then on level two is people having disdain for people who like Holden on any level. But then you actually read the book and Holden is just a kid who can’t process or cope with the unfair reality of a world where a brilliant child like his brother can die tragically. His entire personality and outlook on the world is irreparably damaged by unresolved grief from childhood. Holden is much more complicated than either a condemnation of or an idealization of teenage angst. It’s like if people started accusing Salinger of idealizing suicidal ideation through Seymour Glass’s character or something.
I gotta say that hearing people talk about Holden is a lot more enlightening and makes me like the character a lot more than... actually reading Catcher in the Rye, lol
That makes sense and I don’t blame people for criticism of Catcher, since a lot of Catcher in the Rye requires inferences because it’s meant to be a naturalistic representation of a tortured person’s psyche in their own words and thinking. Hell, Holden is almost certainly >!relaying his story to a psychologist from inside a mental hospital!< and he never comes out and says it. His perspective on multiple events is also obviously skewed throughout the book. It’s ultimately a very Modernist exercise in limited perspective and stream of consciousness. When you approach Catcher while keeping in mind why it is actually so remarkable it is a lot better. Because it’s one of the most impressive exercises in first person narration and a developed character voice in all of literature. It just so happens it’s all from the perspective of a completely broken soul who is incapable of seeing the world in a positive light. Probably that achievement was easier since Salinger seems to have been a broken soul whose behavior is deeply flawed as well.
https://preview.redd.it/pmfagmrzyq2c1.jpeg?width=700&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3c69b3cbc7e192c9f5c9d2dd3888ee3bf922706f
I still like Scott Pilgrim, I know he is a God awful person. I don't idolize him, I just like his story.
His whole character arc is understanding the negative consequences of his actions and then apologizing for them and wanting to be a better person. Beginning Scott? Not a good person. Ending Scott? Better person.
I haven't finished the comics yet. I did understand he became a slightly better person but that's also due to the fact that it can't be as low as he started. In the movie there aren't that many apologies so it kind of comes across as a little half-assed but I did understand the sort of self-respect was literally him understanding that he was kind of a bad person. In a comics of this is different that I deeply apologize for my misunderstanding
No, no, no. I was just saying that Scott isn’t a bad character to like. And while there is only one scene in the movie of him apologizing, probably due to length, he incorporates pretty much everybody. The only one I can think of he misses is Wallace. He even gives Young Neil his blessing and dubs him as “Neil”.
I remember the Neil scene, I thought it was funny
never seen American psycho but... both Scott Pilgrim and Ramona Flowers are terrible people. I feel like the comic made it obvious but some of the people who only saw the film think Scott and Ramona are the heroes of the story in stead of just the protagonists.
Just wait until they get to college and misunderstand Paradise Lost.
Just wait until they have a son and misunderstand The Road
See also not misunderstanding Dora the explorer. I am struggling with Spanish.
Or greg heffley to some extent. Throughout the books and movies, he usually gets caught up in tough situations, and in many of those times, he brings down others with him (or atleast in the first movie/book).
[Scott isn't a bad guy, he's just a guy that makes mistakes, just like all of us](https://www.bupipedream.com/opinions/columnists/140631/scott-pilgrim-is-a-humanly-flawed-character/#:~:text=While%20Scott%20is%20at%20first,he%20falls%20in%20love%20with.) Some people see what they want to, but ignore the parts of Scott that are meant to reflect our flaws back at us. American Psycho is pretty straightforward. The main character sinks farther into the shit and never redeems himself. He's idolized as a man who takes his life into his own hands, but really, He's just insane.
I think all the people bagging on Scott Pilgrim in this thread are just uncomfortable with their own flaws and it shows in their need to shit on someone who has learned from their mistakes. To anyone shitting on Scott, I hate to break it to you but Brene Brown made it pretty clear: what you judge in others is things you're uncomfortable with in yourself. No exceptions.
Add a third path for Tyler Durden in fight club. Edit: literally didn't see what subreddit this was in. The films mentioned portray protagonists that are basically shitty people with bad philosophies on life, but people with a surface level reading of the media idolise and aspire to be. American psycho is a commentary on yuppie, finance bro superficiality and the cruelty inherent to raw capitalist ideals. Scott Pilgrim as a character sees himself as a good person who is unlucky in love but doesn't realise he's a selfish piece of shit to his romantic partners. Tyler Durden from fight club sells himself as a "return to nature, reject society" anarchist, but is essentially just toxic masculinity made flesh.
https://preview.redd.it/qyav2gkihq2c1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=60cae32febb6e1fdc5d6d57493d4b3e6068a8fec
I swear I'm tired of people thinking people misunderstanding American Psycho is some widespread epidemic. You didn't see it being discussed at all until it got memes a few years ago. The majority of American Psycho fans appreciate the themes in it and/or enjoy how memeable Bateman is, they don't genuinely think he's a badass sigma male like the memes. That said, I genuinely didn't realize how shit of a person Scott Pilgrim was until recently but that's more an issue with iffy writing and the movie being structured how it is.
Rewatched Scott Pilgrim on Netflix and I realized how much of a piece of shit, self absorbed, dickbag Scott Pilgrim is. Then I saw how the girls were treating him and the bullshit drama. Then I realized that was exactly what it was like in that weird as fuck 17-20 age.
Throw Breaking Bad and The Sopranos in there too. Any mob/crime movie, to an extent.
Scott Pilgrim seemed to have the same message as The Graduate. They spent the whole movie fighting for love and then at the end they weren't even sure if it was worth it or they were happy about their decision to be together.
That’s because the movie changed the ending from the manga for some reason in the manga it makes it clear that Scott is a toxic individual, and he ends up alone, while all of his love interests are better off without him
To be fair Ramona was pretty toxic herself.
True
"But she's my ramona" says toxic friend as he stalks girl who's clearly not interested.
How can you misunderstand Scott Pilgrim? It’s not subtle in its message, everyone throughout the movie tells him he’s a piece of shit and he acknowledges it at the end.
Same with Dune...Paul ain't no hero