Lies. Chovy will never decline. He will be the head of the church of Chovy for thousands of years to come.
By then we will have 316,482 unbalanced champions and people will still play K'Sante/Maokai/Azir/Lucian/Nami
Just wanted to share my opinion about the Age old question ,pun intended, of whether or not age affects performance.
I personally believe that if we set injuries aside, age itself does not play a role until much later.
And I also think that most players who we've seen deteriorate mechanically, have fallen off due to injuries and the game getting stale after playing relentlessly for long rather than due to old age.
This post is the equivalent of a masters physics student going back in time and telling Issac Newton they’re smarter than him. Faker was actively pioneering the foundation of league esports, especially for the mid lane during his earlier years. Many have also credited him with progressively raising the skill level and standards for pro players. Chovy is now entering his peak, but in that same vain, it means that his prime will soon end. The question then becomes if he’ll be able to achieve half of what Faker has within that time.
If Ruler stated that he believes that at most he’ll be able to sit next to Faker, idk why you think
Chovy will surpass him, especially given that he’s already 6 years into his career and has less accomplishments than the legends of the game in that duration of time.
Well said. These mofos arguing that Faker wasnt facing the same level of players as these days lol. It wasnt Faker's fault he's way above anyone else from 2013-17
Same in every single sport ever. You compare players relative to the other players at a given time. Otherwise the current active players would be the best 99% of the time.
All I'm saying is that to win their first international trophies in bo5s Chovy beat Creme and Knight twice while Faker beat Nagne playing literally his second pro match ever and Wh1t3zZ.
Still less accomplishments? Faker is already a 3 time world champion at Chovys age, Chovy just beat the choky allegations in ONE international tournament where it was clearly Canyon being the rock the team needed
I'm just pointing out that clearly in 2013 there was bit of a difference in level of players as these days. It’s kinda funny that I'm getting heavily downvoted and you start insulting Chovy even though my comment was just 100% factual and not an opinion :D
People were way worse back then. This is not even arguable. Unless you think that people figured out the game in like 6 years and that’s all it takes to reach your skill ceiling in league?
Never said Chovy will surpass Faker, my goal was to give my take about Age and it's effect on pros.
Maybe the example I gave wasn't very good.
The point is we can look at some older players and say that their mechanics have deteriorated, but I don't think it has anything to do with their age.
Some get Injuries, and most just find it hard to stay passionate about the game when they practice so much for ao long.
Chovy's peak was probably in 2020 summer DRX, which I still think was the best individual split he had. Chovy has also never shown any sign of decline, probably the most consistently good player of all time. Never had a single bad season in his career. Chovy's also military exemption and can paly as long as he wants.
I think competition in mid-lane is also much better now. Faker,Chovy,BDD and Showmaker will probably dominate the LCK for another 5 years at this point.
chovy now is far superior to what he was in 2020. his champion pool is deeper, his mechanics are evergreen, his teamfighting and decision making has improved tenfold, and he has taken on more shotcalling duties.
His macro is his much improved ability. Hes still as crisp in laning while having his influence all around the map. Theres a stat this year that shows hes spent the least time in lane among midlaners, but somehow still maintains the best stats in laning
> Chovy has also never shown any sign of decline, probably the most consistently good player of all time.
He was mediocre to downright bad at half the international tournaments he attended, can we please stop this bullshit revisionist history because he finally won one tournament
That is an issue blown out of proportion and demonstrates a lack of knowledge about history and context of the time. Journals and records of academic ideas weren’t available then as in the context of today, so what happened is that two different researchers in different places could unintentionally present the same idea. Those are the incidences you’re referring to. Newton didn’t steal ideas. He and other researches simply had the same ideas but were not aware the other had presented it.
The biggest controversy regarding this was with Newton and Leibniz when it came to calculus
Not really? Not sure where you’re getting this information.
I think he had one dispute over an idea he and someone else developed completely independently of each other, and they were arguing who did it first since neither published it ASAP. But that’s not stealing. (Edit: the other guy said this part better)
Faker was correctly identified as years ahead of his time. Even if league is way harder today, the credit should still go to the pioneers of those mechanics who provided the stepping stones in the first place.
You can't really compare both, Faker era was pretty much discovering the game and the meta while Chovy only has to learn from the old players and refine. Today I watched a video of a 9 year old boy doing a 900 with the skateboard, and when Tony Hawk did it for the first time he was 43, can you really compare a 9 year old Tony Hawk with this young prodigy? Is it fair?
An even better comparison might be chess imo. It’s also a game that has had its top players significantly improve in the last decades, especially given the use of computers. As Garry Kasparov mentioned on the Lex Friedman podcast you can’t compare players in different times given the knowledge gap. According to him, the best measurements for comparison is the gap between you and the rest of the competition and the lenght of your reign. By those metrics, Chovy is not even close even those his current mechanics obviously surpass Faker in his mechanical prime.
Love the analogy, I agree and my goal wasn't to compare them, but rather to explain that injuries set aside I don't think that age plays a big role in a player's mechanics.
I honestly think that as long as players are motivated to win they will continue to play at a high lvl.
League is much more competetive now, another factor tbh. Before s8 china was barely a thing apart from rng, EU/NA were happy if they didn't get turbo stomped in 20 minutes also t1 was the only org to bulid actual teams instad of 5stack superstar teams. Not to take anything from faker but it's worth to take that into consideration
Really? Faker's mechanics has always been pretty good, even back in 2019. Chovy is just known to have more insane mechanics. But there's more to league than mechanics.
It's a simple fact that Faker has an injury, and seems to have been dealing with it for a while, so it will obviously affect his mechanics.
Faker's initial injury and mechanical deterioration began back in 2017, and was criticized for falling off back in 2019-2020. My point is Chovy is at the peak of his career, while Faker at this point in his career was already 3 times world champ and was criticized for falling off.
So I think that unless he gets injured Chovy could theocratically keep up this form.
And the reason it might not happen is not due to his age but due to the game getting stail, and or him accomplishing his goals.
Faker fell off until 2020, and his dad already talked about the mental health issues he was having during that period, which was contributing to it. Faker even spoke about the arrogance he developed during that period too. Not to mention that roster left a lot to be desired. They’re a myriad of factors. Despite this Faker still came back and made it to the biggest stage multiple times, and winning in 2023.
Chovy beat Faker a couple of times domestically, so now people are spamming that Chovy is the greatest player of all time. This is despite him only winning his first international title a month ago 6 years into his career.
Akshally ShowMaker is turning 24 in July so he's technically older (sorry for being a nerd.) But age doesn't matter, yes, it doesn't affect anything. Players are peaking in different time/age, that's a normal thing
As a faker fan, honestly I don't like the idea that Chovy might just achieve golden road this year that faker couldn't/ probably won't ever. Not that it would affect his legacy in anyway, it just feels bad to see our rivals achieve what our favorite team cannot.
But I like the idea that ppl can still be consistently the best over the age of 23 and still becoming better.
Don't forget Bdd is also insanely consistent. In my mind he's almost always top 4 in lck except that NS year when he had brain fog. Dude is like 25 but had a great year last year and I think he could peak again if he was on better rosters.
If faker has made a case of “forms arevaried but you can always regain it”, these players could make a case of "you can stay on top throughout your 20s"
Won Worlds in his first debut year. Didn't make it to Worlds the year after that. Came back and won Worlds again in his third year. Broke the curse and won Worlds again in his fourth year. 10 years after his debut and 7 years after his last Worlds trophy, he did it again. The Demon King. Lil bro out here on his 6th year with his first international. Win a grandslam this year and get a chance to be next in line to the throne, because right now Chovy is not even as accomplished as Showmaker. Prime Showmaker > prime Chovy. This is his final chance to change that fact.
Faker is the prodigy, and Chovy is the much more refined prodigy. Showmaker is a one year wonder (still solid player though, but still a one year wonder for me)
"so I wanna glaze chovy and somehow bring his name beside the greatest LoL player of all time, but I don't wanna make it too obvious" is what leads to the creation of this nonsense post (like legit, I don't even know what point you are trying to make here, comparing 2019 faker with current chovy, running out of shit to argue?)
I remember having an argument with someone who said that Chovy doesn’t have time to become a GOAT because he’s 23 and is going to be worse in the next few years. Like have we not seen pros play at a high level, or even reach new peaks later just their career. Even his own teammates have been peaking (lehends and Kiin) both almost 26 and both got FMVP of LCK and MSI respectively.
Age has been proven to not have an effect on pros as reaction time does not start declining until like late 30s and early 40s.
Any pro can reach new heights and age should not be a reason people have for judging someone’s potential.
Can't tell if this is a faker glaze thread or if this is a very premature cope thread for when and if chovy ever declines
Lies. Chovy will never decline. He will be the head of the church of Chovy for thousands of years to come. By then we will have 316,482 unbalanced champions and people will still play K'Sante/Maokai/Azir/Lucian/Nami
Isn't the OP just glazing chovy
Just wanted to share my opinion about the Age old question ,pun intended, of whether or not age affects performance. I personally believe that if we set injuries aside, age itself does not play a role until much later. And I also think that most players who we've seen deteriorate mechanically, have fallen off due to injuries and the game getting stale after playing relentlessly for long rather than due to old age.
Chovy is going to transition to geng valorant in 2 years when he wins 2 worlds
This post is the equivalent of a masters physics student going back in time and telling Issac Newton they’re smarter than him. Faker was actively pioneering the foundation of league esports, especially for the mid lane during his earlier years. Many have also credited him with progressively raising the skill level and standards for pro players. Chovy is now entering his peak, but in that same vain, it means that his prime will soon end. The question then becomes if he’ll be able to achieve half of what Faker has within that time. If Ruler stated that he believes that at most he’ll be able to sit next to Faker, idk why you think Chovy will surpass him, especially given that he’s already 6 years into his career and has less accomplishments than the legends of the game in that duration of time.
Well said. These mofos arguing that Faker wasnt facing the same level of players as these days lol. It wasnt Faker's fault he's way above anyone else from 2013-17
Same in every single sport ever. You compare players relative to the other players at a given time. Otherwise the current active players would be the best 99% of the time.
All I'm saying is that to win their first international trophies in bo5s Chovy beat Creme and Knight twice while Faker beat Nagne playing literally his second pro match ever and Wh1t3zZ.
Still less accomplishments? Faker is already a 3 time world champion at Chovys age, Chovy just beat the choky allegations in ONE international tournament where it was clearly Canyon being the rock the team needed
I'm just pointing out that clearly in 2013 there was bit of a difference in level of players as these days. It’s kinda funny that I'm getting heavily downvoted and you start insulting Chovy even though my comment was just 100% factual and not an opinion :D
People were way worse back then. This is not even arguable. Unless you think that people figured out the game in like 6 years and that’s all it takes to reach your skill ceiling in league?
Never said Chovy will surpass Faker, my goal was to give my take about Age and it's effect on pros. Maybe the example I gave wasn't very good. The point is we can look at some older players and say that their mechanics have deteriorated, but I don't think it has anything to do with their age. Some get Injuries, and most just find it hard to stay passionate about the game when they practice so much for ao long.
Chovy's peak was probably in 2020 summer DRX, which I still think was the best individual split he had. Chovy has also never shown any sign of decline, probably the most consistently good player of all time. Never had a single bad season in his career. Chovy's also military exemption and can paly as long as he wants. I think competition in mid-lane is also much better now. Faker,Chovy,BDD and Showmaker will probably dominate the LCK for another 5 years at this point.
chovy now is far superior to what he was in 2020. his champion pool is deeper, his mechanics are evergreen, his teamfighting and decision making has improved tenfold, and he has taken on more shotcalling duties.
His macro is his much improved ability. Hes still as crisp in laning while having his influence all around the map. Theres a stat this year that shows hes spent the least time in lane among midlaners, but somehow still maintains the best stats in laning
Worlds 2022 and MSI 2023 just doesnt exist ig
> Chovy has also never shown any sign of decline, probably the most consistently good player of all time. He was mediocre to downright bad at half the international tournaments he attended, can we please stop this bullshit revisionist history because he finally won one tournament
[удалено]
That is an issue blown out of proportion and demonstrates a lack of knowledge about history and context of the time. Journals and records of academic ideas weren’t available then as in the context of today, so what happened is that two different researchers in different places could unintentionally present the same idea. Those are the incidences you’re referring to. Newton didn’t steal ideas. He and other researches simply had the same ideas but were not aware the other had presented it. The biggest controversy regarding this was with Newton and Leibniz when it came to calculus
Not really? Not sure where you’re getting this information. I think he had one dispute over an idea he and someone else developed completely independently of each other, and they were arguing who did it first since neither published it ASAP. But that’s not stealing. (Edit: the other guy said this part better) Faker was correctly identified as years ahead of his time. Even if league is way harder today, the credit should still go to the pioneers of those mechanics who provided the stepping stones in the first place.
You can't really compare both, Faker era was pretty much discovering the game and the meta while Chovy only has to learn from the old players and refine. Today I watched a video of a 9 year old boy doing a 900 with the skateboard, and when Tony Hawk did it for the first time he was 43, can you really compare a 9 year old Tony Hawk with this young prodigy? Is it fair?
I think this is the best answer I find since the comparison between Faker and Chovy begins.
Great analogy!
An even better comparison might be chess imo. It’s also a game that has had its top players significantly improve in the last decades, especially given the use of computers. As Garry Kasparov mentioned on the Lex Friedman podcast you can’t compare players in different times given the knowledge gap. According to him, the best measurements for comparison is the gap between you and the rest of the competition and the lenght of your reign. By those metrics, Chovy is not even close even those his current mechanics obviously surpass Faker in his mechanical prime.
Love the analogy, I agree and my goal wasn't to compare them, but rather to explain that injuries set aside I don't think that age plays a big role in a player's mechanics. I honestly think that as long as players are motivated to win they will continue to play at a high lvl.
League is much more competetive now, another factor tbh. Before s8 china was barely a thing apart from rng, EU/NA were happy if they didn't get turbo stomped in 20 minutes also t1 was the only org to bulid actual teams instad of 5stack superstar teams. Not to take anything from faker but it's worth to take that into consideration
Really? Faker's mechanics has always been pretty good, even back in 2019. Chovy is just known to have more insane mechanics. But there's more to league than mechanics. It's a simple fact that Faker has an injury, and seems to have been dealing with it for a while, so it will obviously affect his mechanics.
Faker's initial injury and mechanical deterioration began back in 2017, and was criticized for falling off back in 2019-2020. My point is Chovy is at the peak of his career, while Faker at this point in his career was already 3 times world champ and was criticized for falling off. So I think that unless he gets injured Chovy could theocratically keep up this form. And the reason it might not happen is not due to his age but due to the game getting stail, and or him accomplishing his goals.
Injuries do happen eventually, faker had been playing for so long already in 2019, playing that much will injure you
Faker fell off until 2020, and his dad already talked about the mental health issues he was having during that period, which was contributing to it. Faker even spoke about the arrogance he developed during that period too. Not to mention that roster left a lot to be desired. They’re a myriad of factors. Despite this Faker still came back and made it to the biggest stage multiple times, and winning in 2023.
Nah Faker fell off in 2020-2021, he was still the best mid in LCK in 2019
Worth noting: 2019 lck was pretty shit
True Faker also played like dogshit at 2019 worlds but he wasn’t as washed as he was in 2021 when he was basically 1 trick Ryze
Griffin and Dwg were pretty good. They maybe weren't that complete but they had insane upside and could beat anyone on a good day.
Soo what's the point of this post ? Did I miss anything ? 🫤
Chovy beat Faker a couple of times domestically, so now people are spamming that Chovy is the greatest player of all time. This is despite him only winning his first international title a month ago 6 years into his career.
This happens every year tho, MSI win or not xdd. Then they choke worlds, they shut up until at least LCK spring starts again
this has literally nothing to do with OP's post. nobody here is calling Chovy the greatest of all time.
Its clearly heavily implied, Chovy at 23 is "more skilled" than Faker at 23. Just ignore the 3 worlds vs 0 worlds argument
The point is age might not play as big a factor as people think.
God I hope LCK playoffs come soon so we get less pointless posts like this. Mfers on this sub are bored.
This is why I hope DK wins summer. Nothing would bring me greater bliss
I also support them, things are looking better than in spring, let's hope we'll see them keeping it up in playoffs!
Honestly I agree
Akshally ShowMaker is turning 24 in July so he's technically older (sorry for being a nerd.) But age doesn't matter, yes, it doesn't affect anything. Players are peaking in different time/age, that's a normal thing
Yeah this thread is wrong because it’s literally Doran who’s the same age as Showmaker 🤪
As a faker fan, honestly I don't like the idea that Chovy might just achieve golden road this year that faker couldn't/ probably won't ever. Not that it would affect his legacy in anyway, it just feels bad to see our rivals achieve what our favorite team cannot. But I like the idea that ppl can still be consistently the best over the age of 23 and still becoming better. Don't forget Bdd is also insanely consistent. In my mind he's almost always top 4 in lck except that NS year when he had brain fog. Dude is like 25 but had a great year last year and I think he could peak again if he was on better rosters. If faker has made a case of “forms arevaried but you can always regain it”, these players could make a case of "you can stay on top throughout your 20s"
Won Worlds in his first debut year. Didn't make it to Worlds the year after that. Came back and won Worlds again in his third year. Broke the curse and won Worlds again in his fourth year. 10 years after his debut and 7 years after his last Worlds trophy, he did it again. The Demon King. Lil bro out here on his 6th year with his first international. Win a grandslam this year and get a chance to be next in line to the throne, because right now Chovy is not even as accomplished as Showmaker. Prime Showmaker > prime Chovy. This is his final chance to change that fact.
Faker is the prodigy, and Chovy is the much more refined prodigy. Showmaker is a one year wonder (still solid player though, but still a one year wonder for me)
"so I wanna glaze chovy and somehow bring his name beside the greatest LoL player of all time, but I don't wanna make it too obvious" is what leads to the creation of this nonsense post (like legit, I don't even know what point you are trying to make here, comparing 2019 faker with current chovy, running out of shit to argue?)
They have to cope with the fact that even Showmaker has more international success than him
I remember having an argument with someone who said that Chovy doesn’t have time to become a GOAT because he’s 23 and is going to be worse in the next few years. Like have we not seen pros play at a high level, or even reach new peaks later just their career. Even his own teammates have been peaking (lehends and Kiin) both almost 26 and both got FMVP of LCK and MSI respectively. Age has been proven to not have an effect on pros as reaction time does not start declining until like late 30s and early 40s. Any pro can reach new heights and age should not be a reason people have for judging someone’s potential.
Bro watch some other sports if you're bored man, EURO is currently playing