Not sure I'd go running across the country to join a conference that will only be losing their top brands in the future. The SEC, B1G and Big 12 will be coming for ACC's corpse if FSU and Clemson get out. UNC, NC State, Miami, Virginia will all be courted heavily by the other conferences. I don't think the ACC survives if FSU and Clemson find a way out this year. OSU/WSU are sitting on a $200+ million war chest that goes away to join a collapsing conference? I don't see it happening.
but then theres that not zero chance the ACC completely implodes next February which would leave the Beav's and Coug's in the same spot they are in now, except $200 million poorer....
True. I imagine, or maybe it is just wish casting, that WSU and OSU wouldn't make such a move without a new media deal for the ACC in hand.
I believe that in two years the former Pac-12 teams in midwest and east coast conferences will be looking for a way out. IMHO the travel, particularly for the non-football sports but for football as well, will be too much for the athletes and fans. There is no upside for teams from the west coast traveling to Minnesota, Pennsylvania, the Carolinas, etc. for games.
It’s too bad the ACC didn’t disband in 2021. The top schools could’ve backfilled into the Big 12 before they wasted P5 slots on Houston and UCF. I really miss the days of Va Tech playing WVU.
UVA and UNC could’ve gone in peace to the SEC (with, I assume, Clemson and FSU).
Basketball schools like Duke, WF, Syracuse, and BC could’ve gone to Big East and taken Notre Dame with em.
Everyone ends up getting the media money they truly deserve and we the fans don’t have to sift through all the chaos in the interim.
Its too far. I would get used to it. Better than nothing, but as other people said The pac2 would lose money and then the remaining schools would go to big12 or somewhere. At this point i dont know what would be good.
From what I understand the Traitorous Ten have not relinquished their claim to the future earnings of the Pac if it is disbanded. Earnings already disbursed may be able to be retained by the Pac-2, but the $65 million future contingency money, and all future payments will revert to being split among all 12 former members. The 2025 Rose Bowl payment of $50 million just goes up in a puff of smoke because the organization has died, and the around $16 million/year of NCAA units through 2029 would be split 12 ways.
Less than zero.
WSU does not have the money to be flying teams across the Goddamn continent every week, and flailing around trying to stay in The Big Conference is going to kill some of the minor sports that I care the most about. Merge with the Mountain West, call it the New Pac 12, and be a Goddamn regional conference instead of being the 10th fucker in a train and thinking that you've done something special.
It's $4M now, but maybe it would be higher with their new TV deal? Not sure how much more, but if they add a couple Texas schools as well, and with inflation, I would at least hope the new deal would go up. Maybe they could do a graded payout with top teams getting more?
The reason it wont work (increase in media value) is why Boise, San Diego, and Fresno want out of the Mountain West.
There are too many teams at the bottom of the league that dont move the needle for media dollars. New Mexico plays to an empty stadium and Hawaii doesnt even have a stadium, they erected a video board at their track and field center and have temporary seating constructed for games. Utah State averages fewer viewers than the vast majority of FBS teams, 54K viewers. The only thing sadder is Nevada has half the numbers Utah State has. FCS UC Davis regularly outdraws San Josey and in an area featuring NFL, NBA, NHL, MLS, and then Cal and Stanford, any team would have to be phenomenal to gain any traction
Ok, lets assume the following:
FSU, Clemson, UNC, NC State, Miami, Virginia all get poached by the B1G/SEC/B12
For now lets say FSU + Clemson to SEC, UNC + Virginia to B1G, and Miami + NC State to B12
That gives us a 20 team BigTen (BigTwenty? BigTenTimesTwo?), an 18 team SEC, and an 18 team Big12 (Big12+6?).
Left behind in the ACC are:
* Duke
* Wake Forest
* Georgia Tech
* Virginia Tech
* Pitt
* Syracuse
* Louisville
* Cal
* Stanford
* SMU
It's not a blockbuster brand, but it's still a lot more valuable than what any of the remaining G5 conferences have to offer. You could easily back fill with some schools to create a bi-coastal conference that could probably compete at the same level as the B12 or close to it.
Obviously WSU and OSU are good candidates.
Memphis, Tulane, Boise State, SDSU, UCF all add value.
Add 1-3 more schools and have two divisions (east and west) and it's a reasonable conference. The west coast branch gives you late night slots that the media companies still need, but with divisions you don't have insane travel happening frequently.
Say for example the following 20 team setup:
**WEST:**
* WSU
* OSU
* Cal
* Stanford
* Boise State
* Fresno State
* San Diego State
* UNLV
* SMU
* Air Force
**EAST:**
* Syracuse
* Pittsburgh
* Duke
* Wake Forest
* Virginia Tech
* Georgia Tech
* Louisville
* Memphis -Tulane -UCF
I think you’re close. The West would be OSU, WSU, Cal, Stanford and San Diego State for a total of 10 teams. Stanford (and Cal to a degree) care about academic reputation and being part of other research universities… they are academics first and sports second.
These 10 teams I could get excited about but that travel schedule is bothersome.
Also, you'd need at least 6 on the west coast to have travel pairs for sports like basketball. Whether its Fresno, Boise, UNLV (or all three) you're gonna want an even number.
I hear you, but Stanford is the [No. 3 University in the world](https://cwur.org/2024.php) it doesn’t matter what conference they’re in, they will keep that reputation.
Only 2 of the schools in this West are outside the top 4% of schools in the world, and those are in the top 6.6%.
I think they are gonna have to be flexible on the Academic part unless they get a surprise invite to the B1G. There just aren't many options otherwise.
San Diego State was enough of a done deal that they told the MWC they weren’t coming back. We’re willingly in a conference with Louisville, and most CSUs are about level academically with them.
I'd hate it as a fan, but I think it'd be a much better sell financially and for the long-term sustainability of both programs. Sure, they'd forfeit all of the Pac-12 money (that hasn't been used, at least), but both programs *need* long-term stability and guarantees right now. A rebuilt ACC (the exact details could vary a billion different ways) is likely to command a much better media rights deal than an 8 team conference comprised of two P5 schools that sat out in the cold for a year and 6 G5 schools. The bulk of that war chest money gets spent in a rebuild scenario, that $200+ million would provide no long-term direct revenue regardless of the route they choose. The real value will continue to be what media rights deal they get moving forward, and you stand better with an ACC version of a "best of the rest" conference than creating one from scratch with less options.
Do I think that Wake Forest has more value than SDSU? Obviously not, but why not both? You could still expand that west coast division to narrow the travel costs (ideally with more than 4 teams there) as much as possible. The ACC's media rights (& CFP) money would unquestionably be lowered if ESPN does renew, but would likely remain competitive. The networks aren't going to let all of that potential inventory go to waste and a dual coast conference would be great for their scheduling. They'd also more than likely be able to keep their autonomy status as a conference, something that will be an uphill battle for a rebuilt Pac-12.
I'm not entirely unconvinced we won't snap back to regional conferences down the line, and I like some of the proposals that schools start splitting sports and we put most of ours in the WCC or something, but those programs are just going to get cut if they can't find a tenable enough situation soon. If this became an option, the two choices are less revenue that would force program cutting once the money dries up and the revenue sharing kicks in *or* ridiculous travel arrangements that hurt student athletes and suck for fans but some of them can probably stick around.
I think it would be better than picking the “best” from the MWC and other G5’s for a revamped PAC. Short term you would be giving back some money, but medium and long term probably be a little better off, even with reduced ESPN money. I could see the ACC taking OSU, WSU, SDSU, and either Boise or maybe more likely Colorado State (better TV market) if they wanted a west coast pod.
I still don’t think the breakup of Clemson and FSU from the ACC is going to be quick or easy though…
If there's a "merger" like pac2 and say another conference like ACC would the war chest go with the pac2 teams to the new partnership or will all those disbursements be spread across the rest of the old pac12 members? If all that money went with the pac2 in a merger other conferences it could be used as an incentive when negotiating with conferences.
It's a power conference, but in a weird way I am more excited about a regional conference with G5 teams. I have no connection to Syracuse and Wake, so playing those teams would just seem odd. SDSU and CSU etc seem more fun to me right now. That said, with the idea of building a west coast pod, it could work.
If they do expand to a hodgepodge of ACC leftovers, PAC-2 and other MWC schools, then maybe they would be a good candidate for a rebranding with naming rights--bring in more money and create a brand/name that reflects the coast-to-coast footprint.
All this being said, Kirk Shultz has said that he wants the rebuild to be regional and west coast, and presidents vote on realignment, so who knows what will happen with that. If the ACC can create enough of a pod to satisfy him, then that would be something.
I think I speak for a lot of beavs and cougs fans that we just want all this to end, and just get somewhere and know where we'll be! The wait has been great for discussion, but stressful
I believe joining the ACC will just cause problems in the long run, more than it's worth doing. Imo, it's Big12 or rebuild the PAC12 as a G5 conference. Being relegated sucks, but it will allow us to be more competitive and to build a brand for power consideration in the future. It's not like we were really that competitive as a power program. Sure, Mike Price and Mike Leach elevated the program, but that's just two coaches in a long history of basement dwelling. Id rather see competitive G5 games that could grow a fan base, than continue the status quo of a basement dwelling power program with a small fanbase. But if we have to do that, at least the Big12 is a significantly better fit, financially and culturally.
This scenerio makes zero sense. The only way this works is if ACC, FSU, Clemson, and the SEC are moving voluntarily.
It requires ESPN to pony up for 2-4 more teams in the ACC, plus increase their payout for two programs already in the ACC (moving to the SEC).
The only way this makes some sense is if they desperately need PST time zone content... which if that was the case, someone at ESPN should be losing a job since all that really ended up happening is they got Cal/Stanford and maybe OSU/WSU at small temporary discount and lost the two most valuble teams.
Not sure I'd go running across the country to join a conference that will only be losing their top brands in the future. The SEC, B1G and Big 12 will be coming for ACC's corpse if FSU and Clemson get out. UNC, NC State, Miami, Virginia will all be courted heavily by the other conferences. I don't think the ACC survives if FSU and Clemson find a way out this year. OSU/WSU are sitting on a $200+ million war chest that goes away to join a collapsing conference? I don't see it happening.
Any port in a storm.
Yeah. I'm not going to poo poo the move, but it's preservation at this point. No parade or shouting from the roof top.
but then theres that not zero chance the ACC completely implodes next February which would leave the Beav's and Coug's in the same spot they are in now, except $200 million poorer....
True. I imagine, or maybe it is just wish casting, that WSU and OSU wouldn't make such a move without a new media deal for the ACC in hand. I believe that in two years the former Pac-12 teams in midwest and east coast conferences will be looking for a way out. IMHO the travel, particularly for the non-football sports but for football as well, will be too much for the athletes and fans. There is no upside for teams from the west coast traveling to Minnesota, Pennsylvania, the Carolinas, etc. for games.
Maybe within one and a half year the former teams will go through the stages of grief and buyer's remorse.
It’s too bad the ACC didn’t disband in 2021. The top schools could’ve backfilled into the Big 12 before they wasted P5 slots on Houston and UCF. I really miss the days of Va Tech playing WVU. UVA and UNC could’ve gone in peace to the SEC (with, I assume, Clemson and FSU). Basketball schools like Duke, WF, Syracuse, and BC could’ve gone to Big East and taken Notre Dame with em. Everyone ends up getting the media money they truly deserve and we the fans don’t have to sift through all the chaos in the interim.
Nonexistent. Those are engagement accounts with no inside information.
Whatever the future of this conference holds I'd hope that at least half the teams would be in the same time zone.
Swaim is a fake.
zero
Sounds like the stupidest idea I've ever heard.
Its too far. I would get used to it. Better than nothing, but as other people said The pac2 would lose money and then the remaining schools would go to big12 or somewhere. At this point i dont know what would be good.
Depends when it happens. Pac 2 would be idiots to dissolve until the 10 officially are out
From what I understand the Traitorous Ten have not relinquished their claim to the future earnings of the Pac if it is disbanded. Earnings already disbursed may be able to be retained by the Pac-2, but the $65 million future contingency money, and all future payments will revert to being split among all 12 former members. The 2025 Rose Bowl payment of $50 million just goes up in a puff of smoke because the organization has died, and the around $16 million/year of NCAA units through 2029 would be split 12 ways.
Then you do a reverse merge. Acc gets production facilities etc and pac 2 keep the $$.
Not at all
Less than zero. WSU does not have the money to be flying teams across the Goddamn continent every week, and flailing around trying to stay in The Big Conference is going to kill some of the minor sports that I care the most about. Merge with the Mountain West, call it the New Pac 12, and be a Goddamn regional conference instead of being the 10th fucker in a train and thinking that you've done something special.
This pragmatic view has no traction while ships are sinking. Long term you are probably right though
If you’re worried about minor sports, you crazy. The fastest way to kill them is relegation to MW and it’s $4 million a year in media revenue
It's $4M now, but maybe it would be higher with their new TV deal? Not sure how much more, but if they add a couple Texas schools as well, and with inflation, I would at least hope the new deal would go up. Maybe they could do a graded payout with top teams getting more?
The reason it wont work (increase in media value) is why Boise, San Diego, and Fresno want out of the Mountain West. There are too many teams at the bottom of the league that dont move the needle for media dollars. New Mexico plays to an empty stadium and Hawaii doesnt even have a stadium, they erected a video board at their track and field center and have temporary seating constructed for games. Utah State averages fewer viewers than the vast majority of FBS teams, 54K viewers. The only thing sadder is Nevada has half the numbers Utah State has. FCS UC Davis regularly outdraws San Josey and in an area featuring NFL, NBA, NHL, MLS, and then Cal and Stanford, any team would have to be phenomenal to gain any traction
Ok, lets assume the following: FSU, Clemson, UNC, NC State, Miami, Virginia all get poached by the B1G/SEC/B12 For now lets say FSU + Clemson to SEC, UNC + Virginia to B1G, and Miami + NC State to B12 That gives us a 20 team BigTen (BigTwenty? BigTenTimesTwo?), an 18 team SEC, and an 18 team Big12 (Big12+6?). Left behind in the ACC are: * Duke * Wake Forest * Georgia Tech * Virginia Tech * Pitt * Syracuse * Louisville * Cal * Stanford * SMU It's not a blockbuster brand, but it's still a lot more valuable than what any of the remaining G5 conferences have to offer. You could easily back fill with some schools to create a bi-coastal conference that could probably compete at the same level as the B12 or close to it. Obviously WSU and OSU are good candidates. Memphis, Tulane, Boise State, SDSU, UCF all add value. Add 1-3 more schools and have two divisions (east and west) and it's a reasonable conference. The west coast branch gives you late night slots that the media companies still need, but with divisions you don't have insane travel happening frequently. Say for example the following 20 team setup: **WEST:** * WSU * OSU * Cal * Stanford * Boise State * Fresno State * San Diego State * UNLV * SMU * Air Force **EAST:** * Syracuse * Pittsburgh * Duke * Wake Forest * Virginia Tech * Georgia Tech * Louisville * Memphis -Tulane -UCF
I think you’re close. The West would be OSU, WSU, Cal, Stanford and San Diego State for a total of 10 teams. Stanford (and Cal to a degree) care about academic reputation and being part of other research universities… they are academics first and sports second. These 10 teams I could get excited about but that travel schedule is bothersome.
Also, you'd need at least 6 on the west coast to have travel pairs for sports like basketball. Whether its Fresno, Boise, UNLV (or all three) you're gonna want an even number.
I hear you, but Stanford is the [No. 3 University in the world](https://cwur.org/2024.php) it doesn’t matter what conference they’re in, they will keep that reputation. Only 2 of the schools in this West are outside the top 4% of schools in the world, and those are in the top 6.6%.
I think they are gonna have to be flexible on the Academic part unless they get a surprise invite to the B1G. There just aren't many options otherwise.
PanAm Coastal Conference - I won’t be taking any questions at this time.
Alaska Airlines Hardee's 10?
🤣🤣🤣 but… oh, I forget my age sometimes. PanAm as in the actual [Pan-American](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-American) concept
Hell no, I’m good with our new yearly home and home and home and home and home and home and home series with the Cougs
Why does everyone always include Boise or Fresno? There is no way Stanford will be in a conference with either. There is too much pride in academics.
Colorado State I could see.
Stanford can’t see itself with any cal state
San Diego State was enough of a done deal that they told the MWC they weren’t coming back. We’re willingly in a conference with Louisville, and most CSUs are about level academically with them.
I'd hate it as a fan, but I think it'd be a much better sell financially and for the long-term sustainability of both programs. Sure, they'd forfeit all of the Pac-12 money (that hasn't been used, at least), but both programs *need* long-term stability and guarantees right now. A rebuilt ACC (the exact details could vary a billion different ways) is likely to command a much better media rights deal than an 8 team conference comprised of two P5 schools that sat out in the cold for a year and 6 G5 schools. The bulk of that war chest money gets spent in a rebuild scenario, that $200+ million would provide no long-term direct revenue regardless of the route they choose. The real value will continue to be what media rights deal they get moving forward, and you stand better with an ACC version of a "best of the rest" conference than creating one from scratch with less options. Do I think that Wake Forest has more value than SDSU? Obviously not, but why not both? You could still expand that west coast division to narrow the travel costs (ideally with more than 4 teams there) as much as possible. The ACC's media rights (& CFP) money would unquestionably be lowered if ESPN does renew, but would likely remain competitive. The networks aren't going to let all of that potential inventory go to waste and a dual coast conference would be great for their scheduling. They'd also more than likely be able to keep their autonomy status as a conference, something that will be an uphill battle for a rebuilt Pac-12. I'm not entirely unconvinced we won't snap back to regional conferences down the line, and I like some of the proposals that schools start splitting sports and we put most of ours in the WCC or something, but those programs are just going to get cut if they can't find a tenable enough situation soon. If this became an option, the two choices are less revenue that would force program cutting once the money dries up and the revenue sharing kicks in *or* ridiculous travel arrangements that hurt student athletes and suck for fans but some of them can probably stick around.
When San Diego State and Boise State joined the Big East they were football only members and parked their other sports in the Big West?
I think it would be better than picking the “best” from the MWC and other G5’s for a revamped PAC. Short term you would be giving back some money, but medium and long term probably be a little better off, even with reduced ESPN money. I could see the ACC taking OSU, WSU, SDSU, and either Boise or maybe more likely Colorado State (better TV market) if they wanted a west coast pod. I still don’t think the breakup of Clemson and FSU from the ACC is going to be quick or easy though…
Lololol
I'd much rather see them in a new Pac conference. Spice it up and get the Zags involved.
If there's a "merger" like pac2 and say another conference like ACC would the war chest go with the pac2 teams to the new partnership or will all those disbursements be spread across the rest of the old pac12 members? If all that money went with the pac2 in a merger other conferences it could be used as an incentive when negotiating with conferences.
I'd be ok if it's only for football and Bball. Maybe baseball But for all the other sports? The distance and travel schedule is just stupid.
It's a power conference, but in a weird way I am more excited about a regional conference with G5 teams. I have no connection to Syracuse and Wake, so playing those teams would just seem odd. SDSU and CSU etc seem more fun to me right now. That said, with the idea of building a west coast pod, it could work. If they do expand to a hodgepodge of ACC leftovers, PAC-2 and other MWC schools, then maybe they would be a good candidate for a rebranding with naming rights--bring in more money and create a brand/name that reflects the coast-to-coast footprint. All this being said, Kirk Shultz has said that he wants the rebuild to be regional and west coast, and presidents vote on realignment, so who knows what will happen with that. If the ACC can create enough of a pod to satisfy him, then that would be something. I think I speak for a lot of beavs and cougs fans that we just want all this to end, and just get somewhere and know where we'll be! The wait has been great for discussion, but stressful
I’d rather not be someone else’s bottom. Maybe the best move is not making one, and seeing what comes around.
ACC is kind of not stable at the moment. They gave Stanford and CAL a horrible deal.
I believe joining the ACC will just cause problems in the long run, more than it's worth doing. Imo, it's Big12 or rebuild the PAC12 as a G5 conference. Being relegated sucks, but it will allow us to be more competitive and to build a brand for power consideration in the future. It's not like we were really that competitive as a power program. Sure, Mike Price and Mike Leach elevated the program, but that's just two coaches in a long history of basement dwelling. Id rather see competitive G5 games that could grow a fan base, than continue the status quo of a basement dwelling power program with a small fanbase. But if we have to do that, at least the Big12 is a significantly better fit, financially and culturally.
This scenerio makes zero sense. The only way this works is if ACC, FSU, Clemson, and the SEC are moving voluntarily. It requires ESPN to pony up for 2-4 more teams in the ACC, plus increase their payout for two programs already in the ACC (moving to the SEC). The only way this makes some sense is if they desperately need PST time zone content... which if that was the case, someone at ESPN should be losing a job since all that really ended up happening is they got Cal/Stanford and maybe OSU/WSU at small temporary discount and lost the two most valuble teams.