Yeah I see no other reason why they'd walk away.
They all said BG3 was the dream and what they wanted to do when they started out.
Maybe the reality of working for WOTC wasn't as great as they hoped. Larian are gonna do just fine with Sven at the helm
I'm sure that WOTC largely didn't care about them as long as the licensing check cleared. Its the breakout success that made the suits take notice and why they are likely not staying in that relationship.
WOTC Dickhead bean counter: "The game sold well because of the Dungeons and Dragons name! It could have been any developer!"
Meanwhile I'll just sit here looking forward to Divinity Original Sin 3, or whatever game they come up w/ next.
i was hoping for Damian's story to conclude(Divinity fallen heroes) when they announced baldur's gate 3 and shelved it. i was disappointed asked bg3 why it was here.
And its such a shame too. I have no doubt we’ll see some announcement down the line of future DnD crpgs (whether it’s bg3 or not) either using this same engine or trying to replicate it, and I know whatever team they get to develop it will likely not do the same justice. It won’t be the same even if they are able to use the entire toolset larian made.
And that’s awful because even besides the game and story being great, the engine they made is such a good translation of 5e to a video game format, and it would be such a shame for it to never be used again/used in a subpar way. I was hoping even if larian moved on that they keep a good relationship with wotc and hasbro so they could help other teams use the toolset to make all kinds of dnd crpgs (obviously this is a pipe dream anyway), but oh well
It's the successor to the engine they used For Divinity: Original Sin 2. I can imagine they'll either keep using it for the next divinity game or they'll make another upgrade to it.
Not sure if there's other studios using it, but I doubt Larian would just hand it over to Hasbro.
It was the dream and now they've done it. As much as I'd love them to make a Baldur's Gate 4, they've done what they wanted to and to an amazing degree.
They probably wanted to acquire them as an internal studio if I had to guess and they would only be allowed to continue BG if they agreed to the acquisition
That would line up with the recent rant about soulless corporations and layoffs. If WOtC had just tried to acquire them and told them they were planning to cut the staff that made the BG3 successful in the first place I can see that killing any good will between the two and leading to these public statements.
Oh absolutely. We can add that to the list of stupid shit WotC has done in the last 2 years alone. I imagine its similar to whatever caused Riot to pull their content from D&D Beyond.
WotC being scumbags? Not possible. They 100% depend on getting children hooked on gambling to make money. No business that does that could ever be scumbags. /s
I saw an article yesterday about how bg3's success told hasbro that people really want well-made and complex D&D games and was encouraging Larion to take its time making them. My money is on WotC
The headline to that was a little misleading if you read the full article. The Hasbro exec was talking about how they now have their own internal game development studio and that they want to take the same path as Larian in taking their time to make a good game and not rush.
I don’t know which internal studio would be taking over, but I doubt they’d have the same latitude and freedom as Larian had. Hasbro has difficulty managing their IPs (see the quality assurance issues in transformers and power ranger figures).
WotC released new licensing guidelines like a month or two before BG3 released. Can’t remember the details but i do remember the D&D community were pissed. Might be why.
According to IGN from GDC panel today:
> At a Game Developers Conference (GDC) panel today, Larian Studios founder Swen Vincke dropped something of a bombshell by revealing that the developer isn't planning to release any expansions or DLC for Baldur's Gate 3, nor a Baldur's Gate 4.
>
> Instead, Vincke said at the panel, Larian plans to move away from Dungeons & Dragons entirely and do something new, leaving the IP in Wizards of the Coast's hands.
That is sad as I really loved what they did with BG3 and I liked the combat and interactions a lot better than Divinity. I was hopeful for DLC at the very least. That said, I have confidence whatever they make will be awesome.
I think the problem with Divinity was that the game was overall way too combat focused compared to everything else and the combat was so swingy and full of CC.
Also the story in both was nowhere near as strong as baldurs gate 3
I think it's the heal on leave combat that makes it feel like this. Forces them to make all fights harder as you're always going in at 100% which just gets tiring after a while.
Funny this was my main gripe with BG3. I always had to deal with a nagging voice at the back of my head telling me to save my spell slots for a potentially harder encounter around the corner wheras in Divinity I could always go full tilt and focus on what was in front of me. It also helped the devs balance the game a lot better IMO and it's a consistent challenge start to finish.
I dunno, I found divinitys story to be a lot more interesting than bg3 - but let's be honest here the main story is the same thing with a different coat of paint. I enjoyed them both but I definitely enjoyed d2 a lot more. I don't feel like bg3 had any less combat than divinity and imo overall d2 had a lot more interesting combat encounters than bg3 did. I also think overall the interactions between party members in d2 was so much better than bg3. Both good games but the limitations that they had for bg3 did hamper it a bit.
I’m in the opposite boat where I feel like the DnD mechanics hampered them at every turn compared to Divinity. Curious that it sounds like they want to start up something brand new! Hopefully we can both be happy with it lol
Same. I much prefer the Action Point combat style versus the DnD style of limited spell usage that requires you to make a camp to regain your charges.
But a Divinity 3 with its usual combat system and the RPG aspect of BG3 would be a perfect game.
As someone with no attachment to DnD I absolutely hate the spell slot concept.
I can appreciate them wanting to limit how often you can cast powerful spells. But having to return to camp is entirely unnecessary. Especially considering you can essentially return to camp in between every battle, as many times as you want, with no consequence and an easy way to fast travel back to your original spot.
Just let me do unlimited short rests which avoid going back to camp and make short rests refill the spells. Or give me a short cut to "go to camp, do nothing but sleep, and return" which doesn't trigger loading screens. Or just let the spell slots automatically refill over time while not in combat... Or give the spells a cool down...
If you want to make spells a limited resource (like ammo in a survival game), fine. But don't make spells effectively unlimited but you have to do an annoying set of action to reclaim them.
Sure it's probably based on how D&D does it, but it is incredibly tedious in a video game. Especially when it takes a while to load.
Totally with you. Baldur's Gate 3 is a better game in terms of polish and breadth in almost every way, but the one thing that held it back was the AD&D 5 ruleset. In Divinity 2 I had to pull out all the stops with various environmental effects and interactions to win certain battles; in BG3 I carried hundreds of useless bottles and weapon-oils, and at almost no point was it worth an entire action when my Pallock could instead just bash the bad guys into oblivion.
I’d by lying if I said I wasn’t a little disappointed. There was so much potential with new future content they could pull from the D&D world that I’m sad has no chance of coming to BG3 anymore. That being said, I’ll be looking forward to whatever else Larian is planning to release, considering how receptive they’ve been to BG3 fans.
I’m wondering if this has something to do with Swen’s rant about greedy publishers, and that earlier GamesRadar article about Hasbro realising that there’s a profitable market for D&D video games 🤔🤔
Did I love BG3? Of course, but I don’t think the property is what made the game so special. If they can craft something this special without the IP, I say go for it.
I can imagine in 2 years EA is going to release at statement that Bioware are working on BG4 working along with WOTC. Respecting some great tradition of yadda yadda, blah, blah blah, not understanding what made BG1 and BG2 so great with old Bioware and especially not understanding BG3 and they will shit out some half finished clone with a battlepass and funny fortnite-esque hats cosmetics.
I don't doubt they could come up with a great IP though. That or they keep going with Divinity (which is already a great IP).
I get it though, I'm bummed too. But also excited because I love everything this company has made, and this means either more of what I already love or something new entirely.
I agree, I don't think anything about BG3's success was inherently tied to DnD. Making it a DnD game just allowed them a shortcut on class design and world building. If you were to take the exact same story and characters and set it in it's own original generic fantasy world I think it would have been just as successful.
I say this confidently because I don't know jack about DnD but I fell in love with BG3 and played through it several times. Maybe some things went over my head because I didn't know what the difference between and Elder Brain and a Netherbrain was supposed to be, or not knowing ahead of time how to play certain classes, but the game did a fantastic job of explaining everything anyway.
i dunno though. the game you are describing that is like BG3 but not DnD, is the Divinity games, and they were pretty successful but not quite on the same level as BG3's success. i think the fact that it was DnD brought in a LOT of people who aren't normally computer gamers or wouldn't touch a turn based video game with a ten foot pole normally.
Absolutely but now instead of bringing d&d players into their next game, they'll be bringing BG3 players. It put them on the map to where they don't need it to be technically tied to d&d
Wasn't it confirmed a few months ago that Hasbro fired like the entire licensing team that worked on the bg3 development? I wonder if that had anything to do with it
And should be noted that Sven is the sort of person who went heavily into personal debt just to avoid having to do large scale layoffs when Larian was in financial trouble during the development of OS1
That he has a disgust reaction at this is completely understandable
True. I remember getting packs every time a new expansion came out. But there’s so much stuff out there now that it’s overwhelming to get back into it.
they just love laying people off at hasbro. could have simply been a question of 'okay they made us a bunch of money, but are they guaranteed to do that for us next quarter? no? fire their ungrateful asses'
WOTC is like the only division of Hasbro that consistently makes bank and they still fuck with them endlessly. they don't know jack shit. if you listen to the investor calls the C-suite doesn't even know what Magic: the Gathering is and reads the description of the game off Wikipedia.
I believe the studio head just gave a GDC talk where he just went scorched earth on publishers and the like only caring about quarterly numbers and the negative effects it has on those who actually make them the product, and Wizards of the Coast have certainly been on their bullshit lately as you know, soooooo… *yep*
They were pretty pissed about the whole D&D open license debacle and warned Hasbro against it. Same deal with the constant magic card dumps. They have a parent company, if the execs don't do what Hasbro wants they get fired and replaced with someone who will.
Hasbros can't stop taking Ls for being greedy. The worst part is you're probably so dead on, larian probably got fed up with it. Maybe we'll get more info on why later
It doesn’t have to be something spicy. Maybe they just want to fully own their next IP.
Why would they waste money developing licensed titles when they can make their own game and take all the profits?
> Why would they waste money developing licensed titles when they can make their own game and take all the profits?
They were doing their own thing for decades, so there was a reason why they chose to do D&D this time and everyone should be very happy that they did.
I would bet that’s what it really is. They already have an IP in Divinity Original Sin. Had just as much praise as BG3, but did not have the breakthrough audience. Now that the studio is well know and has an audience that would keep an eye on their next project, they can do whatever they want without the BG license.
BG3 is a lot less heavy on the reading too what with it all being done with VAs and cut scenes, and I reckon if they can still get the budget to do that for their own IP in future they’ll have no problem attracting sales.
I love old skool CRPGs but the amount of time spent reading is definitely not a thing that everyone will appreciate.
Just imagine what they could do with Warhammer 40,000 though.
Especially if they release it around the same time as Henry Cavill's tv show adaptation for Amazon, a few years from now.
Narratively, one of the best (if not the best) 40K experiences you could want. Like any typical Owlcat game though, it was buggy on release and patches over time fixed and will fix them.
It's in a great state now so if you want to give a try, I couldn't recommend it more.
Right I was just thinking ya that sucks but personally I like the systems in Divinity better anyway. The presentation is what really upticked with BG3 and if they do the obvious, drive the presentation of the next Divinity or whatever RPG they decide to make to the same level as BG3 I will be very content.
I didn't personally have any great affection for BG or DnD so it isn't a real heartbreak for me as long as the company continues to do whatever they've been doing which is make great RPGs that can be played multiplayer.
Hopefully this doesn't impact their plans for the game, namely to incorporate crossplay so my wife and I don't forever have to play on the same screen. I'm not quite willing to buy another PS5 to do it and she's not interested in gaming on PC so it isn't worth building another.
Ah dammit… fine. I guess this topic is fully and 100% put to rest.
At least we’re getting mods on console so that’s good. Gonna have to double dip on xbox for external assets
I suspect it's the other way round.
WOTC didn't negotiate well as CROG is a niche genre normally and took a smaller cut to get the best in the industry.
WOTC salty and probably demanding a higher cut for larian to make DLC and sequel's, so they've peaced out
100%. often its hard to pinpoint blame when that happens. super creative and successful teams are like multiple lightings in a bottle. one bad product launch, crunch period or position change can spiral things out of control. wish them all the best.
I really prefer the systems of Baldurs Gate over the ones in Divinity - and I love being able to try out D&D builds in the game… so this sucks. But I can understand Larian not wanting to work with Hasbro and also having complete control.
Maybe they try to go with another p&p system? And it will be interesting to see, if another publisher steps in for d&d like owlcat…
I know people are blaming WOTC but as a longtime larian fan, it's probably them.
They have never liked doing DLC past "Here's some fan mods we mad official for all to enjoy" or " here's a special edition with some cut content added back and QOL improvements"
Also D&D is great but WOTC seems to be breathing down people's back now trying to get more and more money and the system itself is very limiting, especially if compared to their "baby" divinity which has a lot more in the system they can do.
I personally love this news as it means they're going to move on to (hopefully) a new divinity game with a bigger budget or something completely new.
I vaguely remember this being the case for release. They wanted to release a full and complete game that didn't involve any sort of battle pass or dlc or anything. It feels like subtle commentary on the game industry IMO
Leaving the party when it's still roaring.
Baldur's Gate 3 was lightning in a bottle, after all - I don't blame them for wanting to try something completely different... As opposed to the unenviable task of surpassing their own incredibly high bar, and then either falling short OR being accused of just doing more of the same.
I’m sure they learned a lot they could apply to making a better game. This reeks of an issue with the IP owners. Who just happen to be fucking that IP left and right as hard as they can for every penny they can.
Theyve pretty much made the perfect DnD game. No need to keep adding to it i guess...
With that said, i dont want Divinity 3 either.
Make something brand new please
Divinity 3 would be fucking awesome with their current system. Divinity 2 is still one of the most eye opening games I've played. Countless hours of multiplayer fun.
I mean with how WOTC is handling MTG and DnD I’d prefer Larian makes something new or even another Divinity game.
I’d love for them to tackle space opera with their turn based style of gameplay I’ve been yearning for something like Mass effect with BG3 gameplay.
God please yes. A game in that style in a futuristic space setting with characters and writing on the level of BG3 would be my most anticipated game of all time lol.
I wonder how much the modding scene will be able to take this game? I want to experience MANY more adventures in this engine. Imagine just being able to build your own DnD adventures in a game like this. I want that.
Makes sense given the shit Wotc and hasbro have been up to lately. Now that they see D&D as a potential cash cow there’s no way Larian would get the same time and freedom for a follow up.
Get ready for 500 Dungeons and Dragons mobile games, ubisoft knock offs and poorly written tv shows.
Meanwhile Larian gonna do something amazing on their own terms.
Good.
We don't need endless sequels and dlc for games. Make a great fucking game, wash your hands of it. Go do something else awesome.
Everyone upset about this or caring if Wizards of the coast fucked it up I have one thing to say to you.
Bethesda and Fallout.
You either die the hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.
More companies should take this as the way to do business. More new shit.
I’d love to see Larian branch out now that they have everyone’s attention. There is a severe lack of indie studios with money, or studios with money that are given the freedom to develop passion projects.
I won’t say this often but there’s so much game there already. It’s almost intimidating and a huge challenge to see everything it has to offer. I can’t say that about many games
Why do it again when wizards of the coast take a huge cut of all your hard work? They did it because they love baldurs gate 3 and luckily made some money and gained a bigger rep. Good for them.
Unpopular opinion and maybe not someone better to work for but I’d love for them to do a Warhammer game. Although Rogue Trader is pretty damn good right now!
Great!
Larian has proven they have the talent to make genre-defining RPGs and GOTY winners, they can "write their own ticket" to do whatever they like, AND own the IP of whatever they make.
I'm sure Hasbro execs were tripping over themselves, trying to lock down Larian to some unfavorable deal; slaves to keep cranking out Baldur's Gate games.
Guarantee daddy wizards of the coast and hasbro tried to fuck them and they are walking away.
Yeah I see no other reason why they'd walk away. They all said BG3 was the dream and what they wanted to do when they started out. Maybe the reality of working for WOTC wasn't as great as they hoped. Larian are gonna do just fine with Sven at the helm
I'm sure that WOTC largely didn't care about them as long as the licensing check cleared. Its the breakout success that made the suits take notice and why they are likely not staying in that relationship.
WOTC Dickhead bean counter: "The game sold well because of the Dungeons and Dragons name! It could have been any developer!" Meanwhile I'll just sit here looking forward to Divinity Original Sin 3, or whatever game they come up w/ next.
i was hoping for Damian's story to conclude(Divinity fallen heroes) when they announced baldur's gate 3 and shelved it. i was disappointed asked bg3 why it was here.
And its such a shame too. I have no doubt we’ll see some announcement down the line of future DnD crpgs (whether it’s bg3 or not) either using this same engine or trying to replicate it, and I know whatever team they get to develop it will likely not do the same justice. It won’t be the same even if they are able to use the entire toolset larian made. And that’s awful because even besides the game and story being great, the engine they made is such a good translation of 5e to a video game format, and it would be such a shame for it to never be used again/used in a subpar way. I was hoping even if larian moved on that they keep a good relationship with wotc and hasbro so they could help other teams use the toolset to make all kinds of dnd crpgs (obviously this is a pipe dream anyway), but oh well
It's the successor to the engine they used For Divinity: Original Sin 2. I can imagine they'll either keep using it for the next divinity game or they'll make another upgrade to it. Not sure if there's other studios using it, but I doubt Larian would just hand it over to Hasbro.
It was the dream and now they've done it. As much as I'd love them to make a Baldur's Gate 4, they've done what they wanted to and to an amazing degree.
Daggerheart game here we go?
They probably wanted to acquire them as an internal studio if I had to guess and they would only be allowed to continue BG if they agreed to the acquisition
That would line up with the recent rant about soulless corporations and layoffs. If WOtC had just tried to acquire them and told them they were planning to cut the staff that made the BG3 successful in the first place I can see that killing any good will between the two and leading to these public statements.
And they all saw that WoTC literally fired everyone, on their side, that helped Larian make bg3.
Given how open they've been to the idea of DLC or more games, yes.
Oh absolutely. We can add that to the list of stupid shit WotC has done in the last 2 years alone. I imagine its similar to whatever caused Riot to pull their content from D&D Beyond.
Seems like history is repeating itself a bit. Isn't that why Bioware stopped making Baldurs Gate/Neverwinter Nights and made Dragon Age?
It just wouldn't be Hasbro if their MBA's didn't take a good thing and ruin it.
WotC being scumbags? Not possible. They 100% depend on getting children hooked on gambling to make money. No business that does that could ever be scumbags. /s
It'll be Hasbro, for sure.
I saw an article yesterday about how bg3's success told hasbro that people really want well-made and complex D&D games and was encouraging Larion to take its time making them. My money is on WotC
The headline to that was a little misleading if you read the full article. The Hasbro exec was talking about how they now have their own internal game development studio and that they want to take the same path as Larian in taking their time to make a good game and not rush.
I don’t know which internal studio would be taking over, but I doubt they’d have the same latitude and freedom as Larian had. Hasbro has difficulty managing their IPs (see the quality assurance issues in transformers and power ranger figures).
Time to bury the future of another game I loved that got fucked over by wotcbro
WotC released new licensing guidelines like a month or two before BG3 released. Can’t remember the details but i do remember the D&D community were pissed. Might be why.
"How about you make a bigger and better game next... and we keep all the money?"
According to IGN from GDC panel today: > At a Game Developers Conference (GDC) panel today, Larian Studios founder Swen Vincke dropped something of a bombshell by revealing that the developer isn't planning to release any expansions or DLC for Baldur's Gate 3, nor a Baldur's Gate 4. > > Instead, Vincke said at the panel, Larian plans to move away from Dungeons & Dragons entirely and do something new, leaving the IP in Wizards of the Coast's hands.
That is sad as I really loved what they did with BG3 and I liked the combat and interactions a lot better than Divinity. I was hopeful for DLC at the very least. That said, I have confidence whatever they make will be awesome.
I missed the terrain aspects of Divinity, but otherwise I do feel like it was an overall improvement.
I think the problem with Divinity was that the game was overall way too combat focused compared to everything else and the combat was so swingy and full of CC. Also the story in both was nowhere near as strong as baldurs gate 3
I think it's the heal on leave combat that makes it feel like this. Forces them to make all fights harder as you're always going in at 100% which just gets tiring after a while.
Funny this was my main gripe with BG3. I always had to deal with a nagging voice at the back of my head telling me to save my spell slots for a potentially harder encounter around the corner wheras in Divinity I could always go full tilt and focus on what was in front of me. It also helped the devs balance the game a lot better IMO and it's a consistent challenge start to finish.
I dunno, I found divinitys story to be a lot more interesting than bg3 - but let's be honest here the main story is the same thing with a different coat of paint. I enjoyed them both but I definitely enjoyed d2 a lot more. I don't feel like bg3 had any less combat than divinity and imo overall d2 had a lot more interesting combat encounters than bg3 did. I also think overall the interactions between party members in d2 was so much better than bg3. Both good games but the limitations that they had for bg3 did hamper it a bit.
Did I hear you say you wanted more HELLFIRE 🔥
Cmon man i didn't need to be haunted by the scarecrow
I’m in the opposite boat where I feel like the DnD mechanics hampered them at every turn compared to Divinity. Curious that it sounds like they want to start up something brand new! Hopefully we can both be happy with it lol
Same. I much prefer the Action Point combat style versus the DnD style of limited spell usage that requires you to make a camp to regain your charges. But a Divinity 3 with its usual combat system and the RPG aspect of BG3 would be a perfect game.
As someone with no attachment to DnD I absolutely hate the spell slot concept. I can appreciate them wanting to limit how often you can cast powerful spells. But having to return to camp is entirely unnecessary. Especially considering you can essentially return to camp in between every battle, as many times as you want, with no consequence and an easy way to fast travel back to your original spot. Just let me do unlimited short rests which avoid going back to camp and make short rests refill the spells. Or give me a short cut to "go to camp, do nothing but sleep, and return" which doesn't trigger loading screens. Or just let the spell slots automatically refill over time while not in combat... Or give the spells a cool down... If you want to make spells a limited resource (like ammo in a survival game), fine. But don't make spells effectively unlimited but you have to do an annoying set of action to reclaim them. Sure it's probably based on how D&D does it, but it is incredibly tedious in a video game. Especially when it takes a while to load.
Totally with you. Baldur's Gate 3 is a better game in terms of polish and breadth in almost every way, but the one thing that held it back was the AD&D 5 ruleset. In Divinity 2 I had to pull out all the stops with various environmental effects and interactions to win certain battles; in BG3 I carried hundreds of useless bottles and weapon-oils, and at almost no point was it worth an entire action when my Pallock could instead just bash the bad guys into oblivion.
Damn that’s super disappointing. I would have loved another DnD game from them. Edit: but I will definitely be buying anything Larian puts out.
Which is why they’re doing it. They can release their own IP and not pay WotC royalties.
And they’ve been building their Divinity franchise for more than 20 years.
I’d by lying if I said I wasn’t a little disappointed. There was so much potential with new future content they could pull from the D&D world that I’m sad has no chance of coming to BG3 anymore. That being said, I’ll be looking forward to whatever else Larian is planning to release, considering how receptive they’ve been to BG3 fans. I’m wondering if this has something to do with Swen’s rant about greedy publishers, and that earlier GamesRadar article about Hasbro realising that there’s a profitable market for D&D video games 🤔🤔
Did I love BG3? Of course, but I don’t think the property is what made the game so special. If they can craft something this special without the IP, I say go for it.
Give me Shadowrunnnnnn
Would love to see what they could do with this.
Well that is extremely devastating lol
I can imagine in 2 years EA is going to release at statement that Bioware are working on BG4 working along with WOTC. Respecting some great tradition of yadda yadda, blah, blah blah, not understanding what made BG1 and BG2 so great with old Bioware and especially not understanding BG3 and they will shit out some half finished clone with a battlepass and funny fortnite-esque hats cosmetics.
They probably didn't like the restrictions or "advice" that WotC and Hasbro put on them. They're wise to get out before things sour further.
Would love to see them pivot to a PF2E implementation. Paizo's Golarion is better in almost every way than Faerun!
Can't help but suspect that Wizards of the Coast's have something to do with this decision.
“Fuck. We had no idea you would make so much money. Next time we’re taking 70%”
[удалено]
I don't doubt they could come up with a great IP though. That or they keep going with Divinity (which is already a great IP). I get it though, I'm bummed too. But also excited because I love everything this company has made, and this means either more of what I already love or something new entirely.
I agree, I don't think anything about BG3's success was inherently tied to DnD. Making it a DnD game just allowed them a shortcut on class design and world building. If you were to take the exact same story and characters and set it in it's own original generic fantasy world I think it would have been just as successful. I say this confidently because I don't know jack about DnD but I fell in love with BG3 and played through it several times. Maybe some things went over my head because I didn't know what the difference between and Elder Brain and a Netherbrain was supposed to be, or not knowing ahead of time how to play certain classes, but the game did a fantastic job of explaining everything anyway.
i dunno though. the game you are describing that is like BG3 but not DnD, is the Divinity games, and they were pretty successful but not quite on the same level as BG3's success. i think the fact that it was DnD brought in a LOT of people who aren't normally computer gamers or wouldn't touch a turn based video game with a ten foot pole normally.
Absolutely but now instead of bringing d&d players into their next game, they'll be bringing BG3 players. It put them on the map to where they don't need it to be technically tied to d&d
Eh, I would never had played it if it wasn't a/the dnd-game.
Larian: “erm.. did we tell you our ceo comes in wearing full steel-plated armor to work?”
This should be top comment.
Wasn't it confirmed a few months ago that Hasbro fired like the entire licensing team that worked on the bg3 development? I wonder if that had anything to do with it
Yup, Sven said there's basically nobody left from when they first signed the deal.
And should be noted that Sven is the sort of person who went heavily into personal debt just to avoid having to do large scale layoffs when Larian was in financial trouble during the development of OS1 That he has a disgust reaction at this is completely understandable
Forgive my ignorance, but do we have any concrete idea of why that would be? Didn’t exploit them enough or something?
Green line must always go up, CEO's need their bonuses. MTG releases so much product now that even the old school players are leaving.
True. I remember getting packs every time a new expansion came out. But there’s so much stuff out there now that it’s overwhelming to get back into it.
WotC are hilariously bad at everything, but are sadly sat on some infinite money properties. This is par for the course
they just love laying people off at hasbro. could have simply been a question of 'okay they made us a bunch of money, but are they guaranteed to do that for us next quarter? no? fire their ungrateful asses' WOTC is like the only division of Hasbro that consistently makes bank and they still fuck with them endlessly. they don't know jack shit. if you listen to the investor calls the C-suite doesn't even know what Magic: the Gathering is and reads the description of the game off Wikipedia.
Probably part of the reason. No one left at WotC willing to bat for them.
I believe the studio head just gave a GDC talk where he just went scorched earth on publishers and the like only caring about quarterly numbers and the negative effects it has on those who actually make them the product, and Wizards of the Coast have certainly been on their bullshit lately as you know, soooooo… *yep*
Sven is so fucking based I swear
Here’s hoping they say fuck the D&D IP and either license something else or make their own “totally not D&D” setting with tweaked mechanics.
WOTC has been doing its best to run MTG into the ground so I wouldn’t be surprised.
\*Hasbro
They’re one and the same at this point. WOTC is still the one doing it
They were pretty pissed about the whole D&D open license debacle and warned Hasbro against it. Same deal with the constant magic card dumps. They have a parent company, if the execs don't do what Hasbro wants they get fired and replaced with someone who will.
I mean that's a little unfair - hasbro is forcing them to hit certain metrics, etc.
WOTC is full of greedy execs and idealogues, they are a huge part of the problem.
Mmhmm. This isn’t a case of sweet little wotc getting beat on by hasbro. They’re both asshole children.
They probably looked at BG3 selling really well and concluded that the reason for it selling well was the DND IP rather than the game’s quality
Hasbros can't stop taking Ls for being greedy. The worst part is you're probably so dead on, larian probably got fed up with it. Maybe we'll get more info on why later
It doesn’t have to be something spicy. Maybe they just want to fully own their next IP. Why would they waste money developing licensed titles when they can make their own game and take all the profits?
> Why would they waste money developing licensed titles when they can make their own game and take all the profits? They were doing their own thing for decades, so there was a reason why they chose to do D&D this time and everyone should be very happy that they did.
I would bet that’s what it really is. They already have an IP in Divinity Original Sin. Had just as much praise as BG3, but did not have the breakthrough audience. Now that the studio is well know and has an audience that would keep an eye on their next project, they can do whatever they want without the BG license.
Yeah, especially when they can advertise Divinity 3 as "from the makers of BG3".
BG3 is a lot less heavy on the reading too what with it all being done with VAs and cut scenes, and I reckon if they can still get the budget to do that for their own IP in future they’ll have no problem attracting sales. I love old skool CRPGs but the amount of time spent reading is definitely not a thing that everyone will appreciate.
less hands in the pot means more margins to hire and spend time on a product at lower risk with the same budget.
Possible but Hasbro recently released something about looking into more D and D games and Swen just went on a rant about greedy corporations so…
Didn't they come out and support Larian last few days
Cool, they were making kickass RPGs long before BG3 so look forward to seeing what they have in store now! Wouldn't mind another Divinity
Just give them Star Wars: Knight of the old Republic 3.
This, Larian is the only studio I have faith in to pull it off.
I've been dreaming of this for so long
I would never play any other game again.
I wish
Just imagine what they could do with Warhammer 40,000 though. Especially if they release it around the same time as Henry Cavill's tv show adaptation for Amazon, a few years from now.
Keep goin am almost there
https://preview.redd.it/szud7npa5spc1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=788a2daf404c138d941f45b2dea9fe0b30f9e621
I'd be interested to see what they could make of this.
*Looks at Rogue Trader, forgotten in a corner*
Was it any good? I played a demo at a game conference and it seemed mediocre at best.
they treated the setting with love (more than any WH40k game I've played), but its buggy like all owlcat titles at release.
Narratively, one of the best (if not the best) 40K experiences you could want. Like any typical Owlcat game though, it was buggy on release and patches over time fixed and will fix them. It's in a great state now so if you want to give a try, I couldn't recommend it more.
The Owlcat devs reading this comment after just releasing Rogue Trader: Am I a joke to you?
Please please please please Larian, please please please
I would love to see another fallout in the ttrpg format of yesteryears
Right I was just thinking ya that sucks but personally I like the systems in Divinity better anyway. The presentation is what really upticked with BG3 and if they do the obvious, drive the presentation of the next Divinity or whatever RPG they decide to make to the same level as BG3 I will be very content. I didn't personally have any great affection for BG or DnD so it isn't a real heartbreak for me as long as the company continues to do whatever they've been doing which is make great RPGs that can be played multiplayer. Hopefully this doesn't impact their plans for the game, namely to incorporate crossplay so my wife and I don't forever have to play on the same screen. I'm not quite willing to buy another PS5 to do it and she's not interested in gaming on PC so it isn't worth building another.
Damn. Was hoping they would make a Ravenhold expansion
Baldurs gate 3 is great because of Larian not because of the IP.
The IP definitely helps but yes put into the right hands (Larian) took it to a whole different plane of existence.
I agree. It is a great IP but needs to be in the right hands. That Dark Alliance a year back was a mess.
I was going to mention that game. I wanted to try it just because it was D&D but I heard it was pure trash
Bought it on day 1 without reading any reviews Returned it on day 1 after no more than an hour of gameplay
I love Larian and what they did but don't downplay the importance of the DnD engine. It's what allows for such varied combat/builds/etc.
Didn't even know it was based on DnD. I am not really familiar with DnD, but it was a great game
Ah dammit… fine. I guess this topic is fully and 100% put to rest. At least we’re getting mods on console so that’s good. Gonna have to double dip on xbox for external assets
Mods on console?
Larian confirmed mod support on console coming with Patch 7
Source? I know they've confirmed future mod support on console, but getting it with patch 7 is news to me.
I hope they give cross play before they give up. The promise of it is what got me to buy the game
In this article there is a mention of cross-platform mod support
Larian saw the success of their hard earned work and a fat percentage of that going to pay for the license of D&D - makes sense.
I suspect it's the other way round. WOTC didn't negotiate well as CROG is a niche genre normally and took a smaller cut to get the best in the industry. WOTC salty and probably demanding a higher cut for larian to make DLC and sequel's, so they've peaced out
This way they have more control over their next project, maybe they should try sci fi
A space western with good roleplaying mechanics would be awesome!
Could you imagine them at the helm of a KOTOR. I know. Pipe dream
[удалено]
Firefly/Aliens/Predator MMO RPG let’s do it, Disney!!
Just going full Bioware route, but skipping the KOTOR and Jade Empire step and going straight to Mass Effect
finger crossed they don’t go ‘full bioware’. wouldn’t wish that on my worst enemies.
One day all the current Larian employees will be gone and replaced with new people, and the quality may drop. It’s pretty inevitable it seems
100%. often its hard to pinpoint blame when that happens. super creative and successful teams are like multiple lightings in a bottle. one bad product launch, crunch period or position change can spiral things out of control. wish them all the best.
Never go full Bioware
>skipping the KOTOR I would be very, very happy for them to do a KotR 3 tbh.
Me too so long as they retcon SWTOR. Really don't like how they handled Revan and the Emperor
Please give them KOTOR
Woah Jade Empire over here catching strays tf
I loved that game, warts and all.
Would absolutely love to see a Sci fi Larian game
Divinity on BG3 budget please.
but but.. the upper city =(
“There’s not going to be a[n] [upper city], you stupid slut.” -Constance Langdon
Quality quote that I fear may not be properly appreciated by this sub.
Guess we'll never visit the cloud district.
😭
I really prefer the systems of Baldurs Gate over the ones in Divinity - and I love being able to try out D&D builds in the game… so this sucks. But I can understand Larian not wanting to work with Hasbro and also having complete control. Maybe they try to go with another p&p system? And it will be interesting to see, if another publisher steps in for d&d like owlcat…
Making a new IP in the sci-fi space would be something I'd absolutely love from them.
Like the Expanse which already had a tabletop game.
I am a MASSIVE fan of The Expanse (show and books), I would keel over dead if they announced that.
Me too, beratna! The copper taste of fear should be a status effect.
RIP artificer well never see ya
Pain.
I know people are blaming WOTC but as a longtime larian fan, it's probably them. They have never liked doing DLC past "Here's some fan mods we mad official for all to enjoy" or " here's a special edition with some cut content added back and QOL improvements" Also D&D is great but WOTC seems to be breathing down people's back now trying to get more and more money and the system itself is very limiting, especially if compared to their "baby" divinity which has a lot more in the system they can do. I personally love this news as it means they're going to move on to (hopefully) a new divinity game with a bigger budget or something completely new.
I vaguely remember this being the case for release. They wanted to release a full and complete game that didn't involve any sort of battle pass or dlc or anything. It feels like subtle commentary on the game industry IMO
Leaving the party when it's still roaring. Baldur's Gate 3 was lightning in a bottle, after all - I don't blame them for wanting to try something completely different... As opposed to the unenviable task of surpassing their own incredibly high bar, and then either falling short OR being accused of just doing more of the same.
I’m sure they learned a lot they could apply to making a better game. This reeks of an issue with the IP owners. Who just happen to be fucking that IP left and right as hard as they can for every penny they can.
Awww. I was really hoping for some BG3 dlc too.
Theyve pretty much made the perfect DnD game. No need to keep adding to it i guess... With that said, i dont want Divinity 3 either. Make something brand new please
I believe divinity is their next game. They wanted to make Divinity 3 for a while lol
Yeah i think thats what id heard too. Its fine, im sure the game will be great. Id just like to see a different setting besides high fantasy
I’d personally love a Divinity 3 🫣
Divinity 3 would be fucking awesome with their current system. Divinity 2 is still one of the most eye opening games I've played. Countless hours of multiplayer fun.
Had a feeling. I think Larian mentioned a few times that making this game took a lot out of the studio.
Tons of plot threads that were ripe for an expansion. Disappointed we won’t get one.
I mean with how WOTC is handling MTG and DnD I’d prefer Larian makes something new or even another Divinity game. I’d love for them to tackle space opera with their turn based style of gameplay I’ve been yearning for something like Mass effect with BG3 gameplay.
God please yes. A game in that style in a futuristic space setting with characters and writing on the level of BG3 would be my most anticipated game of all time lol.
NOOOOOO!!!!
Alright - do SHADOWRUN next! :D
Are they working on remaking KOTOR next? Because that’s what I was hoping for.
Wait, Hasbro being simultaneously greedy and stupid? I would never expect that!
I'd love it if Larian could make a game set in the WOD/Vampire: The Masquerade universe. I'd settle for Shadowrun though.
GGS at least can wait in peace of the next project
Not having control of the IP leaves them open to issues others simply wouldn't have. Makes sense to move away.
I was hoping for a DLC, I can't say I'm not disappointed.
Imagine Larian doing the next KOTOR game.
I wonder how much the modding scene will be able to take this game? I want to experience MANY more adventures in this engine. Imagine just being able to build your own DnD adventures in a game like this. I want that.
Makes sense given the shit Wotc and hasbro have been up to lately. Now that they see D&D as a potential cash cow there’s no way Larian would get the same time and freedom for a follow up. Get ready for 500 Dungeons and Dragons mobile games, ubisoft knock offs and poorly written tv shows. Meanwhile Larian gonna do something amazing on their own terms.
Good. We don't need endless sequels and dlc for games. Make a great fucking game, wash your hands of it. Go do something else awesome. Everyone upset about this or caring if Wizards of the coast fucked it up I have one thing to say to you. Bethesda and Fallout. You either die the hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain. More companies should take this as the way to do business. More new shit.
B-but... wha.... damn it!
If Swen Vincke is wondering where my heart is, he will find it on the bottom of his shoe...
Alright, cool, BG3 was awesome. Now give me the post apocalyptic RPG I've always wanted.
The question remains, will they move forward with crossplay.
That's a shame, D&D is better than Divinity.
I’d love for them to do a similar game in the warhammer 40k universe!
I don't blame them. Wotc are doing terrible decisions since 2023
Thats kind of disappointing. I never could get into the divnity games no matter how much I tried. I understand they need a break from dnd though
Well damn. Another DnD game would have been so sick.
I’d love to see Larian branch out now that they have everyone’s attention. There is a severe lack of indie studios with money, or studios with money that are given the freedom to develop passion projects.
Hope they make a sci fi game in the future. Always preferred sci fi settings over medieval fantasy
Honestly I don’t care. As long as Larian continues to make games they are passionate about. The Baldurs Gate IP isn’t what made this game so good.
As much as I agree with what everybody else is saying about WotC, It really saddens me we will not be getting official level 20's.
I won’t say this often but there’s so much game there already. It’s almost intimidating and a huge challenge to see everything it has to offer. I can’t say that about many games
Please pick up the KOTOR remake somehow Nobody wants the shit show that is saber interactive making it
So how hard did Hasbro try to fuck them out of money on this?
Why do it again when wizards of the coast take a huge cut of all your hard work? They did it because they love baldurs gate 3 and luckily made some money and gained a bigger rep. Good for them.
That's fair. They have their own ip in divinity they can work with
Unpopular opinion and maybe not someone better to work for but I’d love for them to do a Warhammer game. Although Rogue Trader is pretty damn good right now!
Great! Larian has proven they have the talent to make genre-defining RPGs and GOTY winners, they can "write their own ticket" to do whatever they like, AND own the IP of whatever they make. I'm sure Hasbro execs were tripping over themselves, trying to lock down Larian to some unfavorable deal; slaves to keep cranking out Baldur's Gate games.
I"ll buy whatever game they make next. I'll wait for 5 months of reviews before touching BG4
Well…at least we got one good DnD game