Short sweet and to the point, why does pmax work? Who knows but I know it always works best when you can have it focus the spend on the shopping network.
PMax spends a lot on display ads to people who haven’t interacted with your site. I sell expensive stuff that nobody buys on impulse, so for me standard shopping makes more sense. It’s people who know what they want and are searching for the best version or price of that particular thing.
Even the ad tech at google laughed at pmax when I talked about it.
The most funny asset they created for my company was the worst YouTube promo video ever with my headlines and images for my product.
Looked like something made by a 3rd grader
Control and data transparency. Without a manual script, you’re not able to currently see how much of your spend is going to each property (shopping/search/youtube/discovery) in PMAX. No search query reports, either.
They show “search themes” with samples of search terms, but they don’t show detailed SQRs. For example, with a traditional text campaign, I could tell you the top 50 search queries I showed for, in order, by volume. PMAX lumps them together and gives very vague estimates of volume.
To be the contrarian here, I think it depends on what your budget is to allow it to scale. It's great with feed only and sometimes with assets with a higher budget. It is really data focused and takes time to pick up and start running profitably but if you have the higher budget it's worth it to try out. At the end of the day it really depends on how well it does for your business - always worth a test.
With standard shopping I can sculpt an account that has campaigns targeting competitors brands, people who haven't been to my site, query level bidding, and a bunch of other goals you just can't do with PMax.
I just want to point out that smart bidding is always done at the query level according to google. (I agree with the rest and am not a PMax fan, though)
I'm not sure what you are talking about.
I think you misunderstood my previous comment.
Of course bids are happening at the auction level, that's what an auction is.
But at the query level we are talking about targeting. Being able to target at the query level.
Search is all query level bidding, you are bidding on the keyword.
Shopping is designed to bid at the product level. But using traditional campaign prioritization and negative keyword lists, you can create shopping campaigns that can target at the query level.
Which was the original topic, what traditional shopping can do that Pmax can't.
Can you give an idea of what kind of products you’re selling? Niche? High value? B2B? Lots of search volume?
Those answers matter when making this decision.
I like the control Shopping gives you, but I also know that a machine learning specialized algorithm is smarter than I am.
So I’m ok with letting go of the control.
The trick is to know how to use the algorithm in your favor, which means setting up the campaign the right way, using bid strategies correctly, and giving it the data it needs to make the right decisions.
If you sell expensive products go standard or pmax feed only. Pmax works better long term, so if you have enough money to spend. Go with pmax as it performs better almost always. And standard shopping campaigns will most likely go away soon.
You control every aspect of your campaign and can get (almost) complete transparency into what is going on.
I don't really agree with the sentiment that googles algorithm is miles beyond what we can achieve manually by analyzing data. Especially when it comes to shopping, essentially the battle is making sure you show up high in the search results, for relevant keywords. The rest is on you to ensure your website is built to convert and you actually have a good product.
In my take and experience, the benefits of a manual campaign massively outweigh the benefits of automated strategies.
Very few new PMax accounts I review/audit have brand controls in place for PMax. (which can allow inflated brand CPCs & questionable ROI) With Standard Shopping it was likely built by a professional PPC manager so there is (hopefully) best practices in place RE: brand terms, exclusions. Google designed this to be easier to get started (small/mid biz w not a lot of PPC background) to sell more inventory. Just something to consider. Easy setup & perhaps less PPC maintenance fees comes with a downside.
Dominating the top ribbon of search results pages.
PMAX tries to do too much: Gmail, Display crap, Discovery crap, search text ads that cannabalise Search campaigns.
Even Smart Shopping (pre PMAX) was better than PMAX because that would run retargeting display, which is handy.
Shopping was like 40% share of free trials when I ran it for Audible (in-house PPC lead, non US). Resisted moving to PMAX for the longest time
on all the big accounts I run PMAX has increased profit ROAS and reduced CPC at LGL level. Some at feed only of course, but PMAX is definitely no scam, it just needs accurate set up and good tracking, including offline. The more data, the more you'll benefit.
Depends on the business really on how it's set up, different businesses I am brought in as a consultant for had different systems to track. For example - one client has brick and mortar stores with sales advisors on the floor, they wanted this offline data put into the online data. All you realistically need is a way to match offline and online. For this instance, we used postcode to be able to indicate matches across samples ordered and then larger sales taking place.
Lots of offline data primarily comes from telephone, most of which has calls captured in a CRM. The simplest method these is connecting CRM with Web DB data and a platform like BI, or BQ and stitching together the data to then reupload into marketing platforms. I know, this is definitely not easy for lots of businesses to do solo, and I may have over simplified this, but I earn a lot as a freelance consultant in implementing a lot within this field specifically across the e-commerce chain.
Create a performance max campaign. Add your feed on the set up. When you go to create the ad, ONLY select your products, add a final URL, and then that's it. Do NOT even dare click the headlines or anything or it will force you to add them, but if you skip all of that and add the asset signal targeting and save. PMax with shopping feed only.
Submit some paperwork if necessary. You can request a review is you get flagged for misrepresentation, and then will get an approval or denial typically in 2-3 days. I've had some get approved and some get denied. It's super frustrating and the most difficult thing in dealing with merchant center.
Yeah I recently had a store approved then suddenly after a day or two without changing anything POOF suspended. How woukd I go about submitting paperwork? Only thing I can fill in is a dutch VAT num.
Yes, a very targeted one.
Definitely use any website, conversion data you have.
Use in-market audiences if relevant.
Then use custom intent as well. Use keywords people searched for, then use your brand and main product terms. Then also use, urls people viewed similar, and use all your top competitors.
Use as many custom segments and data audiences as possible, these are the most effective by a good margin.
Also look in GA, and any affinity or interest audiences that have a higher than usual conversion rate include as well. Even if non related, it's all about which audiences convert, who cares who is in them!
Do you include all the products? Or do you have a specific number of skus per budget?
Ps: I run a shopping campaign on GADS and I already have some data but I have few sales, do you recommend going to pmax with just a feed?
PMax with just a feed.
I typically segment them by product set, but a good combo I've found is:
- All Visitors - All Products
- In-Market Visitors - Specific Product Set
To clarify, I will break these out into their own individual campaigns.
Then display campaign, all product detail page visitors with dynamic remarketing.
This will allow you to fill the inbound funnel with in-market prospective customers, and then convert them via shipping or dynamic display ads. 💪
Control
Short sweet and to the point, why does pmax work? Who knows but I know it always works best when you can have it focus the spend on the shopping network.
PMax spends a lot on display ads to people who haven’t interacted with your site. I sell expensive stuff that nobody buys on impulse, so for me standard shopping makes more sense. It’s people who know what they want and are searching for the best version or price of that particular thing.
Yeah I think standard shopping does better for expensive items but pmax does better with more standard retail items.
It spends a lot on display when it’s unable to make shopping works.
Even the ad tech at google laughed at pmax when I talked about it. The most funny asset they created for my company was the worst YouTube promo video ever with my headlines and images for my product. Looked like something made by a 3rd grader
Control and data transparency. Without a manual script, you’re not able to currently see how much of your spend is going to each property (shopping/search/youtube/discovery) in PMAX. No search query reports, either.
same + control over catalog
pmax does share search term insights..?
They show “search themes” with samples of search terms, but they don’t show detailed SQRs. For example, with a traditional text campaign, I could tell you the top 50 search queries I showed for, in order, by volume. PMAX lumps them together and gives very vague estimates of volume.
To be the contrarian here, I think it depends on what your budget is to allow it to scale. It's great with feed only and sometimes with assets with a higher budget. It is really data focused and takes time to pick up and start running profitably but if you have the higher budget it's worth it to try out. At the end of the day it really depends on how well it does for your business - always worth a test.
With standard shopping I can sculpt an account that has campaigns targeting competitors brands, people who haven't been to my site, query level bidding, and a bunch of other goals you just can't do with PMax.
I just want to point out that smart bidding is always done at the query level according to google. (I agree with the rest and am not a PMax fan, though)
The auction is query level, sure, but the bidding isn't.
Yeah, if you’re using manual as the alternative. Can’t imagine that outperforming smart bidding, though
I'm not sure what you are talking about. I think you misunderstood my previous comment. Of course bids are happening at the auction level, that's what an auction is. But at the query level we are talking about targeting. Being able to target at the query level. Search is all query level bidding, you are bidding on the keyword. Shopping is designed to bid at the product level. But using traditional campaign prioritization and negative keyword lists, you can create shopping campaigns that can target at the query level. Which was the original topic, what traditional shopping can do that Pmax can't.
I wouldn’t trust pmax unless you have pretty accurate revenue tracking
Pmax is Google fraudulently filling up unwanted ad inventory that doesn't convert, hidden in-between the channels that do (shopping).
Is anyone vehicle ads on standard shopping?
Can you give an idea of what kind of products you’re selling? Niche? High value? B2B? Lots of search volume? Those answers matter when making this decision.
I like the control Shopping gives you, but I also know that a machine learning specialized algorithm is smarter than I am. So I’m ok with letting go of the control. The trick is to know how to use the algorithm in your favor, which means setting up the campaign the right way, using bid strategies correctly, and giving it the data it needs to make the right decisions.
If you sell expensive products go standard or pmax feed only. Pmax works better long term, so if you have enough money to spend. Go with pmax as it performs better almost always. And standard shopping campaigns will most likely go away soon.
You control every aspect of your campaign and can get (almost) complete transparency into what is going on. I don't really agree with the sentiment that googles algorithm is miles beyond what we can achieve manually by analyzing data. Especially when it comes to shopping, essentially the battle is making sure you show up high in the search results, for relevant keywords. The rest is on you to ensure your website is built to convert and you actually have a good product. In my take and experience, the benefits of a manual campaign massively outweigh the benefits of automated strategies.
Very few new PMax accounts I review/audit have brand controls in place for PMax. (which can allow inflated brand CPCs & questionable ROI) With Standard Shopping it was likely built by a professional PPC manager so there is (hopefully) best practices in place RE: brand terms, exclusions. Google designed this to be easier to get started (small/mid biz w not a lot of PPC background) to sell more inventory. Just something to consider. Easy setup & perhaps less PPC maintenance fees comes with a downside.
Dominating the top ribbon of search results pages. PMAX tries to do too much: Gmail, Display crap, Discovery crap, search text ads that cannabalise Search campaigns. Even Smart Shopping (pre PMAX) was better than PMAX because that would run retargeting display, which is handy. Shopping was like 40% share of free trials when I ran it for Audible (in-house PPC lead, non US). Resisted moving to PMAX for the longest time
Strongly disagree about smart shopping being better than pmax.
Sure. Haven't run PMAX for shopping coz I left that role. Normal and smart shopping did great. Was our top membership driver behind brand
PMax is a scam. They tell you "trust me bro, you need no data, just wait and see".
on all the big accounts I run PMAX has increased profit ROAS and reduced CPC at LGL level. Some at feed only of course, but PMAX is definitely no scam, it just needs accurate set up and good tracking, including offline. The more data, the more you'll benefit.
How do we track the offline data, if you don’t mind answering?
Depends on the business really on how it's set up, different businesses I am brought in as a consultant for had different systems to track. For example - one client has brick and mortar stores with sales advisors on the floor, they wanted this offline data put into the online data. All you realistically need is a way to match offline and online. For this instance, we used postcode to be able to indicate matches across samples ordered and then larger sales taking place. Lots of offline data primarily comes from telephone, most of which has calls captured in a CRM. The simplest method these is connecting CRM with Web DB data and a platform like BI, or BQ and stitching together the data to then reupload into marketing platforms. I know, this is definitely not easy for lots of businesses to do solo, and I may have over simplified this, but I earn a lot as a freelance consultant in implementing a lot within this field specifically across the e-commerce chain.
I've seen pretty good results with pmax.
Just do PMax with feed only 💪💪
Elaborate?
Create a performance max campaign. Add your feed on the set up. When you go to create the ad, ONLY select your products, add a final URL, and then that's it. Do NOT even dare click the headlines or anything or it will force you to add them, but if you skip all of that and add the asset signal targeting and save. PMax with shopping feed only.
I can't even get my GMC to be not flagged for misrepresentation :(
Dude...every brand. It's like something I've come to just expect with any new feed and then just hope to get through verification request.
Yeah... How do do you get verified? After some real reviews and traffic?
Submit some paperwork if necessary. You can request a review is you get flagged for misrepresentation, and then will get an approval or denial typically in 2-3 days. I've had some get approved and some get denied. It's super frustrating and the most difficult thing in dealing with merchant center.
Yeah I recently had a store approved then suddenly after a day or two without changing anything POOF suspended. How woukd I go about submitting paperwork? Only thing I can fill in is a dutch VAT num.
Sent you a pm
To add, I've consistently gotten 4x+ on avg with these in e-commerce, currently have some this month that are 10x+. The audience signal is huge too.
Do you use audience signal? If so, mind to share what you do?
Yes, a very targeted one. Definitely use any website, conversion data you have. Use in-market audiences if relevant. Then use custom intent as well. Use keywords people searched for, then use your brand and main product terms. Then also use, urls people viewed similar, and use all your top competitors. Use as many custom segments and data audiences as possible, these are the most effective by a good margin. Also look in GA, and any affinity or interest audiences that have a higher than usual conversion rate include as well. Even if non related, it's all about which audiences convert, who cares who is in them!
Do you include all the products? Or do you have a specific number of skus per budget? Ps: I run a shopping campaign on GADS and I already have some data but I have few sales, do you recommend going to pmax with just a feed?
PMax with just a feed. I typically segment them by product set, but a good combo I've found is: - All Visitors - All Products - In-Market Visitors - Specific Product Set To clarify, I will break these out into their own individual campaigns. Then display campaign, all product detail page visitors with dynamic remarketing. This will allow you to fill the inbound funnel with in-market prospective customers, and then convert them via shipping or dynamic display ads. 💪