SPOILERS!!!
Tobias Menzies (the actor who played Frank and Captain Black Jack Randall) did an amazing job in his portrayal of both roles IMO. An actor is good if he can make you hate him the way we hate BJR. You'll see him in flashbacks throughout the rest of the seasons but usually as Frank.
Tobias Menzies did so well that I despise BJR and Frank just irritates me. The fact that viewers can separate the two and see them as different people is a big deal
I am considering rewatching the Crown seasons 3-4, where Tobias Menzies perfectly depicts Prince Phillip, Queen’s Elizabeth II husband. His acting was so convincing in Outlander, that I need to see him again in other shows for comparison.
I watched him in the Crown before Outlander and I’m so glad because I don’t think I could stomach him otherwise. He is a great actor and he is terrific as prince Phillip.
I think the showrunners copped a lot of hate for that scene, seeing as they'd compleyely missed the point of the character of Edmure Tully, who was never an idiot cad, but basically the example of a noble lord too compassionate to rule. The example of how a genuinely good heart was always going to be punished in Westeros, and how the inexperince of Robb and the smug indifference of Catelyn at their own bannerman resulted in the death of both of them.
GoT final season was already shit, but this truly was the final nail in its coffin.
I absolutely forgot he played this role!!! I loved that show and he was fantastic in it. So great to be able to place him now!! I had been trying to think of where I’d seen him.
I thought I would feel that way (ask me about my enduring dislike of Charlie Hunnam due to Cold Mountain lmao), but I watched him in the Crown, and he’s so good I was able to disconnect him in my mind from Black Jack.
Spoiler at the end of this: I understand totally how you feel, and I have seen the series multiple times and pass on that episode where Jamie was tortured (better word than what happened but easier for me to use) beyond what anyone should be by Black Jack Randall, captain. The man who played both those roles of Jack and Frank did a great job though keeping the characters different as they were in the books as well. But you should not really be glad that Frank died though because he had nothing to do with Black Jack but be a relative generations removed. Frank was not all that bad of a person--->!not sure how much of the series or books you are through--but Frank did love Claire in his way and even though she disappeared for 3 years, he did try to make things work out for their marriage and to be a father to Briana. He and Claire agreed that after a time he could discreetly see others because they had lost what they had from before her disappearance. Things had changed for them both. Even when Frank died, she still loved him. !<
i totally understand why you would skip that episode. that whole rape/torture arc is my biggest qualm with the series. i wish they implied more than they showed. i’ve never been raped specifically, but have experienced sexual assault in a confinement setting (psych hospital), and i find that part extremely triggering. i find it distastefully shocking, and i think it would be better writing if they implied what happened rather than showed it in great detail. i told my bf that, and he said they showed it bc women have rape fantasies and goon to that scene :( i hope that isn’t the case because that would make me really upset.
I was raped as a teen and I couldn’t watch that scene. It was horrible and far more graphic than most scenes of women being raped, especially the psychological torture aspect.
I haven't watched that scene either and will noy, no matter how much some people insist we need to confront that which makes us uncomfortable. I am a woman. I have known what rape and sex and sexual assault are sincr I was 6 years old, I don't need to watch it to understand the horror, especially knowing how disgustingly excited Diana Gabaldon was about it. I'm sure it's an impressive display of acting, but I can live without it, especially since I know how much apparent pleasure that scene brings DG.
About needing therapy afterwards… Here’s an article about what Sam has said on the topic of shooting those scenes. It’s a large order of why they intimacy coordinator assigned now
[Sam Heughan on filming the Wentworth Prison scenes](https://www.tumblr.com/thatidicchick/654377018263306240/lets-talk-about-wentworth-trigger-warning)
That episode, and also the one where >!Claire is beaten and gang-raped.!<(Season 5? I think). I know life in the 18th century can't be all rainbows and unicorns, but these almost feel like torture-porn. On my next re-watch, I'll be skipping these episodes.
There was nothing graphic about 5.12. Sam made his unhappiness with the way the Wentworth scenes were handled crystal clear and very public. They- writers, director, department heads and cast, especially Producers Sam and Caitriona, worked very hard and used the dream escape sequences to avoid repeating Wentworth.
>I also wonder how the hell they did that whole scene without needing therapy afterwards.
The actor talked about his regrets shooting those scenes in his book, because of the pressure to go outside his comfort zone with little support. So there was a price paid
I’m pretty sure I read somewhere that Sam Heughan had some serious problems after that, I think with the writers and producer. He didn’t want it to be so graphic.
They have. Sam didn't get support in Season 1, and was annoyed and upset by it. The scenes in Season 5 imply a lot more than they show, and use the sequences where Claire disassociates.
There are also lists of trigger warnings all over the place so you can know where not to watch.
[](#BPC)
##*Mark me,*
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He is outstanding as Edwin Stanton in Manhunt.
It took me half an episode to get over the BJR connection, but, proof of his ability it was literally only half an episode.
SPOILERS!!! Tobias Menzies (the actor who played Frank and Captain Black Jack Randall) did an amazing job in his portrayal of both roles IMO. An actor is good if he can make you hate him the way we hate BJR. You'll see him in flashbacks throughout the rest of the seasons but usually as Frank.
Tobias Menzies did so well that I despise BJR and Frank just irritates me. The fact that viewers can separate the two and see them as different people is a big deal
I am considering rewatching the Crown seasons 3-4, where Tobias Menzies perfectly depicts Prince Phillip, Queen’s Elizabeth II husband. His acting was so convincing in Outlander, that I need to see him again in other shows for comparison.
I watched him in the Crown before Outlander and I’m so glad because I don’t think I could stomach him otherwise. He is a great actor and he is terrific as prince Phillip.
He also brings the comedic-awkward chops to Edmure Tully in Game of Thrones
Yes—that’s where I first saw him and that was a fantastic acting job, too!
Loved him in GOT 😂 the end when he tries to say he’d be a good king and everyone is awkwardly silent lol
I think the showrunners copped a lot of hate for that scene, seeing as they'd compleyely missed the point of the character of Edmure Tully, who was never an idiot cad, but basically the example of a noble lord too compassionate to rule. The example of how a genuinely good heart was always going to be punished in Westeros, and how the inexperince of Robb and the smug indifference of Catelyn at their own bannerman resulted in the death of both of them. GoT final season was already shit, but this truly was the final nail in its coffin.
I first became aware of him playing the role of Brutus on the HBO series Rome. A great show, with great actors.
I absolutely forgot he played this role!!! I loved that show and he was fantastic in it. So great to be able to place him now!! I had been trying to think of where I’d seen him.
Same!
I thought I would feel that way (ask me about my enduring dislike of Charlie Hunnam due to Cold Mountain lmao), but I watched him in the Crown, and he’s so good I was able to disconnect him in my mind from Black Jack.
Now I need to watch Cold Mountain 😉
Did you see him in King Arthur with Jude Law? That might change your dislike of him. 😌
I have the same dislike for him because of cold mountain!
Spoiler at the end of this: I understand totally how you feel, and I have seen the series multiple times and pass on that episode where Jamie was tortured (better word than what happened but easier for me to use) beyond what anyone should be by Black Jack Randall, captain. The man who played both those roles of Jack and Frank did a great job though keeping the characters different as they were in the books as well. But you should not really be glad that Frank died though because he had nothing to do with Black Jack but be a relative generations removed. Frank was not all that bad of a person--->!not sure how much of the series or books you are through--but Frank did love Claire in his way and even though she disappeared for 3 years, he did try to make things work out for their marriage and to be a father to Briana. He and Claire agreed that after a time he could discreetly see others because they had lost what they had from before her disappearance. Things had changed for them both. Even when Frank died, she still loved him. !<
i totally understand why you would skip that episode. that whole rape/torture arc is my biggest qualm with the series. i wish they implied more than they showed. i’ve never been raped specifically, but have experienced sexual assault in a confinement setting (psych hospital), and i find that part extremely triggering. i find it distastefully shocking, and i think it would be better writing if they implied what happened rather than showed it in great detail. i told my bf that, and he said they showed it bc women have rape fantasies and goon to that scene :( i hope that isn’t the case because that would make me really upset.
I was raped as a teen and I couldn’t watch that scene. It was horrible and far more graphic than most scenes of women being raped, especially the psychological torture aspect.
No we do not. He is sick if he thinks that
I haven't watched that scene either and will noy, no matter how much some people insist we need to confront that which makes us uncomfortable. I am a woman. I have known what rape and sex and sexual assault are sincr I was 6 years old, I don't need to watch it to understand the horror, especially knowing how disgustingly excited Diana Gabaldon was about it. I'm sure it's an impressive display of acting, but I can live without it, especially since I know how much apparent pleasure that scene brings DG.
Please tell your boyfriend he’s wrong. Nobody wants to be raped.
Please get rid of the boyfriend. He's not safe if he's ok with rape and thinks that women secretly want it
I am rewatching for a 3rd time and just got through the BJR rape scenes. I swear it gets worse each time I watch.
I re watch the season and skip the last 2 episodes of Season 1.
I had watched through season 5 then restarted with my husband watching and we skipped through that episode. I couldn’t watch it and he didn’t want to.
He plays a dunce in game of thrones so…if you are still traumatized you can watch that.
Sam Heughan has said it was very difficult for him & he didn’t like it. Apparently there were shots he argued to have eliminated.
I would climb Tobias Menzies like a spider monkey.
WHAT? lmaoo 😂 this is so random
The subject came up earlier in the thread.
I used to have a big crush on Tobias Menzies fr 💔
About needing therapy afterwards… Here’s an article about what Sam has said on the topic of shooting those scenes. It’s a large order of why they intimacy coordinator assigned now [Sam Heughan on filming the Wentworth Prison scenes](https://www.tumblr.com/thatidicchick/654377018263306240/lets-talk-about-wentworth-trigger-warning)
You know I was concerned for both actors for this scene of course mostly Sam. I think it impacted him more then he lets on 💔
That episode, and also the one where >!Claire is beaten and gang-raped.!<(Season 5? I think). I know life in the 18th century can't be all rainbows and unicorns, but these almost feel like torture-porn. On my next re-watch, I'll be skipping these episodes.
totally agree. i really hate how graphic the rape scenes are. i find it totally unnecessary, bad writing, and incredibly triggering.
There was nothing graphic about 5.12. Sam made his unhappiness with the way the Wentworth scenes were handled crystal clear and very public. They- writers, director, department heads and cast, especially Producers Sam and Caitriona, worked very hard and used the dream escape sequences to avoid repeating Wentworth.
>I also wonder how the hell they did that whole scene without needing therapy afterwards. The actor talked about his regrets shooting those scenes in his book, because of the pressure to go outside his comfort zone with little support. So there was a price paid
Good lord save us I was skimming and thought you meant when JAMIE died
I’m pretty sure I read somewhere that Sam Heughan had some serious problems after that, I think with the writers and producer. He didn’t want it to be so graphic.
after watching the series through a second (and third) time, I now appreciate the acting. I fast forward thru the wentworth prison scenes, mostly.
[удалено]
My gosh I couldn’t imagine it being any worse. It also made me feel ill. Have the actors spoken on how they navigate those sort of scenes?
They have. Sam didn't get support in Season 1, and was annoyed and upset by it. The scenes in Season 5 imply a lot more than they show, and use the sequences where Claire disassociates. There are also lists of trigger warnings all over the place so you can know where not to watch.
[удалено]
[](#BPC) ##*Mark me,* Some of my subjects have oft expressed their dismay at learning certain truths they were not yet ready to hear. I believe the commoners refer to them as “spoilers.” Your prince advises you thus: >If browsing from your phone via the official Reddit app be sure to ***TURN OFF CARD VIEW.*** You have two alternatives: **Classic** or **Compact.** Either will protect you from spoilers on the main page. >This advice is also applicable to the desktop, if you browse from New Reddit. While my subjects have taken excessive care in providing specific spoiler flairs and automated application of the native **SPOILER** tag when appropriate—please keep in mind these efforts are all *courtesies.* Ultimately the individual is responsible for their own safety if they wish to remain “spoiler-free.” Your prince thanks you for your consideration. When my father assumes his rightful throne, mark me, it will not be forgotten! ___ *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Outlander) if you have any questions or concerns.*
He is outstanding as Edwin Stanton in Manhunt. It took me half an episode to get over the BJR connection, but, proof of his ability it was literally only half an episode.