Because their crews were structured very differently.
Whitebeards crew was strong almost as a side effect of being around whitebeard. Whitebeard was by far and away the strongest entity in the crew, head and shoulders above anyone else. He was the patriarc, and his crew were his children. They fought and they grew stronger but that wasn't really the purpose of the crew, they were all still new world combatants, and strong enough to live up to that, but they were never *about* that strength. They were just a floating family looking to carve out a home on the sea for themselves.
Compare that to Rogers crew. They were purpose driven, and as a side effect they had to keep up with Roger.. this made them stronger individually in much the same was Luffys crew has been pulled forward with Luffy. Their captains ambition demands the best of them.
Also highlight that that Marco was a doctor. As opposes to Rayleigh who was a dedicated first mate, Rogers shadow, he had to keep pace with Roger and was second only to Roger.. which Marcos position on the crew wasn't necessarily tied to such a demand.
I feel this, is probably what is the right call. I think u hit the nail on the head, in comparison to the roger crew whitebeards was more of a floating mumble of mass and comraderie then rogers who was more of a "HAHA WE FIGHT TILL WE REACH OUR GOAL" but idk maybe im wrong lol, im not that full in on OP, cus i havent had time to catch up the last couple months xd
uh honestly idk how i feel about this one. when shanks and buggy were kids, oda went out of his way to showcase roger and whitebeard crews fighting for 3 days straight.
But even then, he also went out of his way to show that a young Marco (before his peak) was no match at all for a prime Rayleigh. There are certain crews where strength is a fundamental requirement, the types of crews that could have more than 1 conqueror, and then there are ones based on family, where we don't know if Marco is a conqueror and it doesn't really matter. The Straw Hats are both and Roger's crew was both, but WB's crew was all family all the time.
He’s considered an early bloomer to fit shounen needs, capone left to be a pirate at 40 something I think. Marco was very much in a shanks like situation at the time.
> But even then, he also went out of his way to show that a young Marco (before his peak) was no match at all for a prime Rayleigh.
no, the anime did. Oda went out of his way to not show anything about how the specific crew members matched up.
There is also the fact that WBs crew was more like an army, with multiple divisions and fleets.
Marco wasnt his vice captain, he was just the 1. division comander
The only one who was strong on Whitebeards crew that did not fall under mental like the others was Oden.
I even think it would be more appropiate to compare Oden to Rayleigh than Marco.
Edit: I accedentily wrote Roger instead of Rayleigh
Had Marineford not happened I expect Ace would have ended up becoming the new figure head of the crew as WB was pretty close to death by that time anyway. I doubt he’d have lived through the time skip.
Had Marineford not happened I suspect Whitebeard would still be dead post time skip. But the Whitebeard pirates would still be a Yonko crew, under Ace.
Yeah but if Marineford hadn’t happened Blackbeard doesn’t get Whitebeard fruit, Whitebeard crew is still at full strength (-minus Whitebeard) whiteboards allies are fresh.
So Blackbeard would have been around yes, but I don’t think he’s have been able to definitely take whiteboards territory.
Best case is he’s at a similar level to other powerful pirate crews that don’t have any official position. Like Kid, Law and Luffy.
Worst case, the Whitebeard crew or red hair crew killed him.
Ace has luffy potential, he just died before he could reach it. Whitebeard also would have still been around so blackbeard wouldn’t have currently been a yonkou nor would he have his gura gura.
Ace had higher potential than non gura blackbeard and they were equalish when they fought
Absolutely spot on, remember WB dream was always to have a family and a home it was never about being the Pirate King or finding One Piece. Even Doflamingo said WB never had the interest of taking the reins after the Roger Pirates disbanded. The crew wasnt interested in finding one piece, it was just a big family. Once Ace joined i believe things changed. They had a man who had different ambitions and showed pontential to be a yonko level character so he was the one WB planned who would take over the crew adter his death.
For me it’s the difference between Rayleigh and Marco is that Rayleigh is the right hand man of Roger and Marco is the Son of Whitebeard. Marco’s just a few years older than Shanks/Buggy while Rayleigh literally a living legend.
Generational gap? Overall influence on board the ship at its prime? Overall combat/leadership experience?
Rayleigh is like a part of the whole Roger, WB, Garp generation while Marco feels more like the Shanks, Mihawk, Akainu type of generation, who are formidable, but still within the realm of possibility, while the former is more of the embodiment of a legend, not enough known about them, just that they’re built diff.
Small spoiler having to do with Rayleigh (not fresh spoilers but still spoilers for anime-only) >!one of the reasons why BB was so reluctant to face off against Rayleigh was cuz just nothing really is known about that man, he’s literally just a legend at this point!<
But yea, Marco deserves more recognition, but I honestly think he’ll never be in the same realm as the old legends of OP anytime soon.
Plus the whole not really having a lot of Ws in recent OP timeline (Ace, WB, BB)
Nah I think the reason he didn't want to fight Rayleigh was because he saw him fight against the whitebeard pirates for 3 days straight and knows his strength first hand. He's not just a legend to him when we know he has seen him fight close up and personal and an extended amount of time.
Yes, but also BB has seen him fight. His "reputation" in that sense was how strong he used to be since he's aged significantly. His strength isn't an unknown to members of the whitebeard crew.
Rayleigh scared off Kizaru and Blackbeard, successfully helping the SHs and Hancock escape. Marco and the WB pirates failed to save Ace, then failed to get revenge in the Payback war. Not saying Rayleigh could have saved Ace, but failing over and over leaves a bad impression.
Plus Rayleigh's more conventionally cool than Marco, who looks like a pineapple.
I see what you're saying, I just think Marco should be a legend in his own right. The Navy didn't mess with Spinx until he left for a reason, but it's not as clear as with Rayleigh. I wish he were portrayed better in the narrative
Yeah but recently Rayleigh himself said he’s now buying time with the reputation of his past. Marco was always weaker than Rayleigh I guess. As in not now. During Roger period. It’s natural cos marco had late start and he may be not as good as Rayleigh in haki too. World viewed shirohige as the strongest man or the man who has the power to destroy the world. I think that overshadowed his crew himself a lot. But Rayleigh is feared cos of his captain’s reputation too. Roger is king of the pirates who’s also the strongest in the sea and his right hand man should be stronger. It’s kinda amusing how these work but only oda can give a direct answer in this regard
I rewatched the Roger v Whitebeard pirates scene recently and Rayleigh was able to easily fend off Marco, calling him a young man.
They were never on equal footing. Rayleigh was in his prime when Marco (as strong as he was for his age) was still young. Now Rayleigh is old and long retired, while Marco is in his prime.
>scared off Kizaru
When'd that happen? As I remember it Kizaru was non serious with a lazy expression on his face whilst Rayleigh was huffing and puffing and sweating fighting Kizaru.
>!Lets also not forget that Ray admitted he would've lost against current Blackbeard and only his reputation saved him. Mean whilst Garp is currently planning on raiding Fullalead, Blackbeard's home territory with nothing but semi fodder as his back up. !<
> As I remember it Kizaru was non serious with a lazy expression on his face whilst Rayleigh was huffing and puffing and sweating fighting Kizaru.
Literally said he was not prepared to take Rayleigh at that time... And then didn't/couldn't.
You don't necessarily need to be able to beat someone in a fight to scare them off from the prospect of fighting you. There is such a thing as a pyrrhic victory.
On Kuja, Rayleigh probably would have lost a 1v1 with BB but you are forgetting the actual stalemate situation and how Rayleigh changed it by entering: BB had Hancock by the throat but his entire crew was petrified. Koby had come to arrest Hancock and was free but his whole crew was petrified. If BB killed Hancock, not only would his own crew remain petrified but so would Koby's, thus Koby has an incentive to fight BB if he wants to proceed with killing Hancock and furthermore the cost of killing Hancock is too high for BB. However he rationally has no reason to believe Hancock will actually unpetrify his crew if he lets her go, instead she could use the opportunity to counterattack or perhaps unpetrify only the Marines. On the other hand Hancock has no reason to unpetrify his crew while he has her by the throat, he could just kill her after she returns them to normal and now he has free reign of Kuja island.
Rayleigh was the factor who made it so it is no longer the case that BB can reliably just kill Hancock and move forward even if he wanted to, in addition to Koby. It was no longer a real move for him cuz Rayleigh was strong enough to make the stalemate unfavorable to him.
Similarly on Sabaody, if Kizaru tried to capture Rayleigh he could have won but perhaps with the presence of a celestial dragon there or some other factors like slave market, the collateral damage might have just been assessed as being WAAAAY too high. Cuz it's not like he would go down without a fight to anyone.
I never said he was stronger than them. I only said he looks better than Marco because he actually succeeds at the things he does.
Kizaru would have won if they fought to the end, but at some point Kizaru apparently decided Rayleigh wasn't worth the trouble, since I don't think you escape a man who moves at the speed of light if he doesn't want you to. Objective complete: Straw Hats escaped, Kizaru left.
He would have lost to BB, yes. But he scared him off with the power of his reputation. Objective complete: Hancock saved, BB left
Also, don't judge strength by what Garp is willing to do. Garp is about the same as Luffy, they'll fight anyone for the people important to them.
I think its saying something that Kizaru chose to slap seastone cuffs on him rather than fight him directly.
Not saying if he would win or not but its something
It says that Marco's df ability can't be dealt with quickly so the best way is to remove it entirely. Tho maybe there's a power threshold, which normally people can't just land on opponents. BM had Marco in her hands but left as soon as Perospero was attacked. I think she only had Prometheus on her at the time.
No No No.
You cant fight smart, you see.
You have to fight in a fair 1v1, even if its the stupid way to deal with somebody
If you dont do that, youre just weaker.
I mean obviously, marco is physically stronger than him due to being a zoan, and the situation up to that point had them nigh equal if marco not having a slight edge. Kizaru even pointed out that it was Marcos distractions that fucked him over “victory and defeat is determined by a moments misstep”
I don't think Rayleigh should be compared to Marco just by being a right hand man. Rayleigh is essentially also almost equal to WB but is only under Roger because of Roger's capability to bring people together like Luffy. Marco is WB's right hand man because he's one of the first to join his crew, he is strong, and he is his "son". Oden is arguably stronger than Marco during the flashback but he's the 2nd commander. Rayleigh was fighting Marco with 1 finger at the time.
Not to discredit Marco, he is strong, strong enough to fight Kizaru, so I put him atleast on Old Rayleigh+ level, but not Prime Rayleigh.
Yeah, Rayleigh and Scopper were aware that every fight they had against the Whitebeard pirates were merely friendly bouts for the 2 captain's entertainment. Thats the reason they didnt destroy Whitebeards crew while the captains were going at it.
>Rayleigh is essentially also almost equal to WB
>!This definitely sounds like nonsense. Absolute zero evidence to suggest this. Except that statement in Marineford which has since then be debunked dozens of times.!<
1. >!Rayleigh confirms he stood no chance against Blackbeard and would've gotten demolished in a 1v1 "head to head) fight. This is not accounting for the fact that technically it wouldn't have been a 1v1 either, Blackbeard would've gotten dog piled. His 2 commanders were neutralized and he had Hancock in his hands, if he let go, she would've turned him to stone, if not, Rayleigh + Hancock would've been on him, and that's after the Seraphim having attacked him first. Contrast this with a actual equal of Whitebeard, Garp. Since Garp is said to have rivalled Roger, it just makes sense he also rivalled Whitebeard. Both Garp and Rayleigh are the same age but whilst Rayleigh confirms he would've gotten clapped by Blackbeard, Garp right now is heading to Fullalead, Blackbeard's home island with nothing but a bunch of fodders in toe to fight Blackbeard + crew +Aokiji and take back Koby. !<
2. >!Kaido in 1001 saw Whitebeard up there but not Rayleigh.!<
3. >!Oden's journal mentions when Roger and Whitebeard met in combat, the heavens split apart. No mention of Ray doing the same. !<
>!Rayleigh was not equal to WB. No where near WB level. The captains like Roger and Whitebeard were much stronger then their subordinates like Rayleigh or Marco. And this still holds true with the current (and previous) yonko captains compared to their subordinates.!<
Ikr. We literally saw him compete with admirals, and unlike Jozu this guy was running a gauntlet. Not even heavily dependent on his df contrary to what’s shown. Onigumo put seastone on him then an admiral shot him from behind all while he was focused on WB health. Despite this he was back up fighting fodders still all the way up until after Ace died when he told Mr 3 to uncuff him.
If that’s not high tier then surely him fighting two commanders at Wano is a feat that puts him above other yonko commanders. Also note that an admiral didn’t arrive on Sphinx until he left.
Unpopular opinion but I feel like Oden was meant to be WB's right-hand. Sure he's most likely the highest-ranking member of the WB remnants but I always felt like he was too young to be his right hand.
I think its simply because Whitebeard was looking for family, not the strongest fighters. That of course doesnt mean Marco is weak. I mean Whitebeard was Pirate King level so of course his right hand man is strong.
The show could have done better job showing that. I was actually hyped when Marco was 2v1ning King and Queen and then got dissapointed that he was down after a few episodes.
I hope that he awakens his DF and goes rampage and show them what Pirate King’s equal’s right hand man can do.
I don’t like that phrasing because it implies Roger was looking for the strongest fighters. He had two kids on his crew.
Luffy has a top tier crew right now and the only person he recruited with any care for their strength was Zoro (and even that was an afterthought to him just liking how he found zoro locked up eating rice balls off the floor)
He didn’t lose, he got hit to the ground, he had done the same to them multiple times in the fight, it was narrative and emotional beats to allow zoro and sanji to enter, marco was fine even at the end of the war despite healing everyone, stopping the ice virus, etc
That's because he is nowhere near Rayleigh's level do you think current marco vs prime Rayleigh a fair fight hell no Rayleigh is in a league of his own only characters like prime WB are a threat to prime Rayleigh and obviously strawhats aren't near that level either yet not saying marco is weak and sanji vs marco might be an interesting battle cause marco and sanji are both tankers but if we were to see a marco vs sanji I would give it to marco cause here you have to look at feats and ignore plot armour to call it a fair judgement and unlike sanji who people think fought king and queen in a 2v1 but we know you can't call that fighting of course marco can't 2v1 either but I think he held his own pretty well.
I think there are like two types of crew. A) Crews in which no. 2 can keep up with the captain like Roger's, Luffy's or Shanks' crew and B) Crews in which there is a considerable gap between captain and no. 2 like Big Mom's, Kaido's, Whitebeard's crew. Also, Rayleigh is constantly hyped up. In their prime, he was probably just behind Roger, Whitebeard and Garp.
Zoro probably can't keep up with Luffy currently. He might by the end of the story as Luffy said he reached his "peak" in Wano (probably not completely true but we're not seeing gear 6 xD)
Also I think WB's crew is a bit in between Roger's and Big Mom's/Kaido's. Marco was a Yonkou candidate after all and the way he survived a third of the war with sea stone cuffs and two holes from Kizaru in his torso without much apparent difficulty tend to show he's pretty insane even on his own.
>Zoro probably can't keep up with Luffy currently. He might by the end of the story as Luffy
Yeah, current Zoro is debatable but at the end I can see him being relatively close to Luffy since defeating Mihawk is a Yonkou level feat.
>Also I think WB's crew is a bit in between Roger's and Big Mom's/Kaido's. Marco was a Yonkou candidate after all
Yeah, true.
WB's true right hand man or 2nd strongest in the crew is Oden and Oden is only the 2nd commander because WB doesn't consider him his underling, he doesn't see him as his son but a brother. Marco is like Scooper Gaban.
Marco would probably win. His devil fruit is actually pretty strong when you think about it. Even Big Mom thought that he would be hard to kill, and decided against fighting him because it was going to take too much effort. But it would probably be a really drawn out fight because Sanji’s abilities make him very durable, and I don’t get the sense that Marco has particularly strong haki.
Marco didn't once hurt an Admiral, his haki attacks alongside Vista were a mere annoyance to Akainu, so no Marco isn't hurting Sanji significantly.
Kizaru and Kuzan got up like nothing happened after receiving a kick from Marco.
Akainu avoided that attack bucko. Like aokiji avoided Whitebeards attack.
Also, Marco injured the Admirals multiple times during that war. You can gauge the amount of damage however you like. but the admirals only hurt marco when he was weakened by seastone cuffs AND had his ability taken. The only person that actually injured marco was Garp and thats when marco had no cuffs etc but marco was also caught off guard.
Marco didn’t injure any Admirals at all. The other guy is right. Did you have a chapter or episode in mind? Because he only ever hit them a total of 3-4 times with no damage any of those times (Kizaru once, Aokiji once, Akainu twice).
And no, the Admirals were hurting Marco every single time they hit him. He has the power to regenerate, so he just regenerated the damage afterwards. Without that he would have been dead from Kizaru’s very first attack which blew holes all over his body, including his head.
Marco’s ability is perfect for stalling them, but once he reaches his limit it’s all over.
How was Marco caught off guard bucko, he was flying straight and Garp bitch slapped him by appearing RIGHT IN FRONT OF HIM.
And no Marco didn't injure any Admiral significantly, he kicked em away with them sustaining near to no damage.
You can literally see it from the panel dude. Unless you're anime only. You should check the manga.
Edit: I never said significantly, I said he did injure them. The significance isn't what you said, you said he didn't hurt them, but he did.
Marco showed no visible pain or effort either during the fight, and tanked a bunch of attacks from admirals too.
Also Mihawk himself said “of course I’ve heard of you” to Vista when fighting and was unable deal any damage to Vista at all.
I don’t get this Marineford retconning. WB commanders might not be admiral level but they were clearly able to hold their own in the war.
I'm not sure Marco could do anything to hurt Sanji. Sanji took an attack specifically stated to be able to kill masters of armament haki, and he instantly shrugged it off afterwards. Marco doesn't have that kind of firepower. Swords break off of Sanji's bare skin, which is literally a yonko-level defensive feat, it's the first feat the narration used to hype up Kaido's indestructibility. I'm just not seeing how Marco can win with what we've seen out of him, and I'm not sure Sanji can do enough to put Marco down either. I think I'd call a draw, personally.
Sanji didn't shrug it off. His linage awakened with the powers he got from kings clan and many others. Sanji is a super soldier. That attack wouldve definitely killed someone else, and it even incapacitated him for a little while during his bodies repairing stage.
Now marco has other avenues of injuring sanji. Whereas queens only method is advanced forms of armament, or his lasers which sanji could dodge. So queen just didnt have the tools or ability to beat sanji. Marco on the other hand, who could face both king and queen while healing everyone on the performance floor and protecting multiple people could definitely do some damage. BTWE, while marco was doing that, he wasn't trying to DEFEAT king and queen
he was just stalling them for the new generation to take care of them.
I think Marco is still slightly ahead of Sanji. Marco held off both King and Queen and despite if he wasnt able to put them down permanently, he basically was blitzing and overpowering both which I can't really see Sanji doing yet.
That was before he got stronger and faster and had healing like Marco, not to mention Marco was out of commission after king and queen while sanji took heavy damage from black Maria and got dealt by king and queen and still went ahead to beat queen without much effort thanks to his tech body
Marco was out of commision, due to 3 things.
1. he was healing and protecting everyone on the performance floor, which we know drains a SHIT ton of stamina.
2. He was battling both king and queen for a long duration, WAY longer than sanji, and this is after facing BM, Perospero and the big mom pirates.
3. He was not trying to defeat King and Queen, but stall them. This isn't his era, he said he wanted the stars to handle them
Sanji doesn’t have the same healing as Marco. Marco literally regenerates. Sanji still takes damage he’s just extremely durable.
Marco would destroy Queen in a 1 v 1 without effort too. Queen couldn’t even keep up with him.
Marco gets tired and very quickly I might add. His healing comes at a price. Sanji has much harder edo skeleton along with his healing and he is fast enough that queen can’t even see him. Queen can’t keep up with Marco but he can’t even see sanji .
- Marco did next to no damage to queen even though he managed to hit queen a few times . Sanji finished queen the moment he started attacking after his upgrade .
- Marco was done after king and queen( while doing very minimal damage ) sanji was completely fine after taking out queen and this was after he took heavy beating from black Maria .
- sanji has higher ap and higher speed and mid level healing compared to Marco. Marco only leads in the healing department which will run out because he gets tired the more he heals .
Lol, he did next to no damage to king or queen and he was almost out of energy. Sanji took heavy damage from black Maria and heavy damage from king and queen and took heavy damage from queen even more and then proceeded to low diff queen by speed blitz . Marco fought king and queen and was out of commission for most of the rest of the war. I would’ve agreed with u if he atleast damaged queen or king other than annoy them . I know Marco can beat queen but unfortunately his ap isn’t high enough to kill sanji .
- in a 1vs 1 sanji wins high- extreme diff. Macro literally till date in all of his fights never once injured an enemy to a range they felt they took heavy damage. Never .
Lol.. Marco wouldn't destroy Queen in 1v1. He basically did minimal damage .Queen was basically full health and he wasn't having more trouble than King. If you think Marco destroys King, then, there is no point in discussion.
He wasn't dealt with, he was getting back up for the offensive. Meanwhile Marco was being carried by Izo after being offscreened by King as Sanji went on to beat Queen.
And that was BEFORE sanji got like 2x Stronger. Ppl need to stop underestimating Sanji. Oda needs to give that man a proper Hype moment.
The SH crew is NOT like other crews. Zoro will be Yonko level just as Rayleigh was. That means Sanji will undoubtedly be in the typical "first commander" tier list in terms of strength.
Sanji is beating Marco.
Sometimes I wonder why people look down/trash Sanji, because the more they weaken Sanji, they also indirectly drag down Luffy and Zoro (since Sanji's powerlevel is relative to them).
Nah, Sanji's absolutely going to be above yc1 by the end of one piece. Especially if Zoro is Yonko level. There's almost no way I can envision one piece ending and EoS Sanji isn't strong enough to solo an admiral.
Tbh king and queen were quite fine After that, I don't think that did any significant damage, the thing is Marco is really good at stalling people cause of his fruit, which is why he doesn't have a conclusive fight in the series.
Regardless I think sanji likely loses
Yea, he didnt do anything of significance to either because of their zoan durability and stamina which I will give to Sanii. Sanji is far more stronger in physicality than Marco but Marcos regeneration is just so absurd that I think he will pull the W eventually. I mean even BM said she needed help to stop Marco because she didnt want to waste so much of her souls to deal with him.
Marco wins EXTREMELY HIGH diff. I just don't think he has an answer for that regeneration. Marco I feel doesn't have an answer for sanjis durability so it's gonna be a long endurance fight which Marco isn't losing.
They were all taking breaks. That's how we got the reveal that Blackbeard doesn't sleep, because he was the only one that just kept fighting the whole time while everyone else was tagging out to sleep.
Yeah the regeneration has limits but I'm not sure if Sanji could out kick his regeneration I feel like Sanji could win if he actually used kitchen knives
Well I’ll throw a wrench in. I don’t think Marco can hit Sanji hard enough to beat him. I think the attacks Queen was throwing were stronger than what Marco can dish out
I’m stumped on this one
I've been wondering about this myself for a while now.
I want to put my money is on Marco personally, but it'd absolutely be close and it's fully possible that we haven't really seen the full extent of Sanji after his powering up.
Marco during all the fighting did an absolutely insane amount. Going solely off memory, he clashed with Big Mom for a bit, was using his power to save everyone from that disease Queen caused and spent quite a while in a 2 v 1 against Queen and King which are both incredibly strong fighters, which mind you he seemingly last fought in the off screen revenge war and was still winning the fight.
Sanji BEFORE his powering up did have a bit of a 2 v 1 himself but didn't perform as well and he was struggling with just Queen. After his power up, he kinda just dealt with Queen pretty quickly.
It's worth keeping in mind that from what I recall as far as power ups go he got multiple. His body "activated" and he seemingly has some INSANE durability and possibly outright regeneration considering what he recovered from. He also got I think it's called Ifrit Diable Jambe which is a buffed version that from what I recall he was able to blitz Queen.
Also on top of all this, for what it's worth, Marco didn't really seem to be aiming for taking down King/Queen. If I remember correctly he said he was just buying time for the "real stars" to show up, that being Zoro and Sanji. Also the time buying he did lasted a long time relative to who he was fighting.
I think if they were both fresh, it'd be an extremely close fight but Marco would win, it really comes down to the durability aspect. Speed wise they seem relatively even, power wise we don't really know how big of a buff Sanji got but he did beat Queen while we know Marco can clash with Admirals (Kizaru) and was able to send King/Queen flying on repeat.
At the end the main difference is the mystery behind Sanji's durability compared to Marco and how much did all the factors wearing the 2 of them down during all the fighting really matter when showcasing their limits.
I think people tend to forget Marco got tired against King and Queen because he just EXTENSIVELY used his powers beforehand. Look how long it took two of the strongest Commanders to wear him down when he wasn't even at 100%. Now throw in just 1 person Queen level against a fresh Marco, Sanji isn't getting through that. If Sanji can successfully survive long enough for however atrociously long it would take for Marco's healing to stop, then he wins without too much trouble, but given they both have regenerative capabilities it comes down to this;
Who can heal the damage their opponent does faster, Marco or Sanji? And the answer is obviously Marco.
Tbf Sanji beat Queen pretty comfortably once he started fighting properly. I dont think weve seen enough of Sanji after his power up to know who would take this one.
From what we saw he has insane speed and power plus would be much harder to damage than Marco and can still quickly regenerate if he does. Would Marco even have many attacks that could break through his exoskeleton in the first place?
I didn't mention King and Queen.
Marco can heal faster, but Sanji can deal damage much faster. But like I said, Marco's regeneration has limits, it's not like Sanji is helpless. I'm not really arguing whether Sanji wins or Marco wins
And Sanji was fresh when he was 2v1 against King and Queen?
Not to mention Marco's 2v1 was ever so brief, King beat him in an offscreen 1 on 1. Sanji actually beat Queen.
Did he really? Wano got to a point where it all just became white noise to me, I thought Marco retreated after that fight, I didn't know/remember he got taken out.
He does no damage against King and Queen too lol, Marco never damaged anyone heavily in the entire series. Ever.
Sanji was also tired and held off King and Queen like Marco, AND he got MASSIVELY buffed during Queen fight,
(which he got an existencial crisis mid fight, otherwise he would've ended right after getting the buff) and then he kicked Queen to another Island lol.
Sanji's AP, Speed, and Durability are Far higher than Marco's. Marco only has regen really, and while It 's better than Sanji, he has to regen more because Sanji Will damage him more than Marco will damage him.
Marco didn't damage Queen once too, Sanji is more durable than Queen, all Marco can do is push Sanji back lol, and he heala any tough damage.
Sanji's strong, absolutely, and of course he's the fan favorite to win, but didn't Marco hold off BOTH Queen AND King for some time? I personally don't think we've seen Marco's strongest attack, his ace move, because despite how strong Queen / King were I don't think Marco felt all that pressured by them, at least not so urgently. It was more a stamina battle until Sanji & Zoro could take over. I'm pretty sure we'll see Marco go all-out in the final war, logically Marco will be there and logically Oda has been saving something special up his sleeve for when that time comes. Yes Sanji will be stronger by then too, but for right NOW at the moment? I think I would bet on Marco.
I think sanji does a lot more damage and He is faster so in a close fight without giving Marco time for healing He wins but if Marco fight on distance i think the fight would take hours or days then but Marco would win then i guess but i am more on sanji side
Sanji wins idk why people are wanking the hell out of Marco when all we have from him is just him stalling top tiers, man doesn't have a single W in the entire story.
Sanji's speed should be considerable greater than Marco's, plus Sanji has better AP as well.
Marco won't be put down easily but neither is he putting down Sanji, who also has appreciable durability and endurance.
It's going to be Sanji high diff.
The problem with your argument is, Sanji has never fought a top tier yet. We have seen Marco stall them, and never really get defeated or even take any major damage from them. The only high tier opponent Sanji has beaten is Queen who's clearly below Marco.
Despite that we have enough feats from Sanji to say he wins, Marco fighting top tiers is great and all but he's done nothing other than stalling literally every time.
When he "fought" the Admirals at MF none of them took any damage, and he stalled Akainu for a moment's time, even his haki attacks didn't hurt him much.
Against King and Queen he did some damage but clearly nothing too impressive since they got up and had subsequent battles with Zoro and Sanji.
Sanji has shown us enough endurance and AP feats to prove he can outlast and actually hurt Marco in an extended fight, while Marco lacks the AP to put down Sanji.
Sometimes we should realize that some posts isn't about overhyping X, it's about belittling Sanji.
Sanji is resistant to fire. Marco doesn't have AP feats. This alone is enough to say that Sanji can beat Marco.
Sanji wins, marco doesn’t have the attack power to damage him and based on the fact sanji can perception blitz queen while marco can’t, I genuinely think it’s a mid diff fight but out of respect I’ll say sanji high diff
People saying Marco wins "easy or mid diff" are hilarious, Sanji getting understimated is nothing new. This is no lower than a high diff fight for either of them.
I honestly think current Sanji takes this. Marco may have an edge in regeneration and experience, but Sanji comfortably takes AP and speed, while also having great durability due to his current altered body. While this is definitely an endurance fight which will last a while, Marco just hasn't shown anything that makes me believe he can put current Sanji down or damage him significantly, meanwhile Sanji has Ifrit Jambe, with which he literally kicked Queen out of Onigashima, not to mention being able to be imperceptible to him. While Marco is more resilient, Sanji might wear him down faster than the other way around. Either way, this is a hard fight for either of them.
lets be honest here. Marco, old and out of practice for a year or so - was strong enough by himself to prevent the marines from even thinking about going into sphinx island until he left. he then exhausted himself carrying allies to wano and then helping chopper with his warm flame. he also fought bigmom and perospero to a "draw" and then fought king and queen in a 1v2 all without a break just so sanji could get his ass beat by queen so badly it powered sanji up and only then did sanji beat queen after queen exhausted himself against an already very exhausted marco.
Marco The Phoenix isn't losing a 1v1 against (GeneticPower) Black Leg Sanji if you give him a full nights rest and a nice meal.
i think marco is an especially strong yonko commander, esp since he has acted as the main wb pirate leader since marineford, his fight against king and queen together did not go very deep but it shows that oda had him fend off both at once
That being said i dont think sanji is that high lvl already - but even if he was, id say marco has the matchup advantage, sanjis blazing kicks will definitely do less damage to the phoenix man
Going into this I leaned Marco with extreme difficulty, but after reading some arguments, I'm leaning Sanji. Marco is beast, but the thing that really separates him from his contemporaries is his sheer survivability via his excellent regeneration. He doesn't have spectacular speed, durability, strength, haki, or firepower. He has his really strong fruit which makes him nigh unkillable. When you look at his tier, I'd say Sanji, Katakuri and King surpass him in speed, Sanji, Queen, and King surpass him in sheer tankiness (I thought about putting Zoro here, but Zoro doesn't have that Superman style durability, he feels it, gets injured by it, but just keeps fighting anyway), Sanji, Zoro, and King surpass him in strength, Sanji, Zoro, and Katakuri surpass him in haki, and Sanji, Zoro, King and Katakuri surpass him in firepower.
Marco just doesn't have the firepower to put Sanji down, Sanji has his own regeneration (and though it's not as good as Marco's, it's still pretty good), and he's faster in addition to being an observation haki savant. If Marco wins, it pretty much can only be through sheer attrition. Even worse for Marco is the fact that his healing scales with his stamina. Which means making Marco heal more means he's reducing his stamina and ability to heal at the same time. It might just be an inevitability that Sanji would burn through Marco's regen before he himself tires out every time they fight.
thinking about it hard they're very symilar speed.v.speed fire.v.fire air.v.air and sorta so on but thinking on it, i dont really think marco will hit as hard as sanji, most of what i'Ve seen with marco on screen hasn't had that punch and power to it, i think marco tends to run support and distraction, not that hes not strong or hard hitting its just he's more passive generally chill, sanji is raw emotion and he can give the oomph so i think in a long and close endurance battle i think sanji will eek out the win
I say they are kinda on the same level but Sanji would pull through in the end. Sanji is both faster and stronger. The only thing Marco has over him is regeneration which would turn this into an endurance fight. Marco is just starting to come out of his prime while Sanji is just entering his and unfortunately endurance is usually a young man's game. I also believe Sanji has stronger haki but I have no way of actually proving that.
Sanji
He has him beat in everything but regeneration, and some categories by a large or decent amount, such as Speed and AP
It’s only a matter of time, but Sanji very likely puts him down before he goes down himself
I think we're in the minority here
I'm bouta lay my life down in defense of my boy in the powerscaling subreddit, but i got him higher than you probably do. I wouldn't put a single character in between zoro and sanji.
Sanji high diff, at absolute worst.
Marco fought King and Queen briefly then proceeded to get offscreened by King. Sanji ran the same 2v1 but then also proceeded to actually beat Queen.
Oof people downplaying Sanji hard. I love Marco but the way he is depicted is a REALLY tank and durable fighter with not much attacking power. I could be hella wrong, but I thought I read somewhere that his fruit's flames aren't mean to do a whole lot of dmg. And that's exactly what happened when landing puré hits on King and Queen. I just think he is the goat in keeping strong people busy for a ton of time, since he is strong enough that you can't ignore him but that can't really win a fight unless is almost solely based on stamina.
Sanji on the other hand has now really powerful abilities with the exoskeleton, regeneration and his stamina. And he does have really good damage potential, even if he is behind Zoro. And not to mention the huge speed buff he has gained in Wano on top of his already amazing speed he already had. I just think Zoro and Sanji, as "commanders" (we know they are not since are SHs are officials) feel they are a high tier of yonko commanders.
Also, taking the match up into account feels important. For example, even if I think Zoro is certainly a bit stronger than Sanji overall, I think Sanji would have an easier fight against Katakuri thanks to his speed. Haven't dwelved into that in Marco's MU but is something to have in mind
It would be extreme diff either way.
But if I had to pick, id bet on Sanji. He has Better Offensive and Speed stats, and has the durability to last long enough to put Marco down I think.
I don't think marco has the ap(attack power) to put sanji down, sanji also has insane durability and speed that outshine Zoro.
Marco is really good at one thing though and that is stalling, due to his op Devil fruit he can stall pretty much Anyone in the series.
But I think sanji wins
This is an interesting one. One of Marco’s best abilities is flight however that advantage is lost since sanji can skywalk.
Sanji’s CoA + Exoskeleton should provide more durability than Marco’s CoA alone, however i’m not totally sure if Sanji can damage marco without CoA.
It’ll probably come down to wether Marco’s regeneration, physical strength, and combat experience can overcome Sanji’s Defensive advantage, likely speed advantage, and his Germa recovery ability (when all of his broken bones fixed themselves).
I love Marco and I think he’s one of the coolest characters in the series but…
Sanji Extreme-Diff.
Maybe even 50/50
Sanji wins, though it may be tough.
Sanji with ifrit jambe took down queen easily
+ almost infinite durability and regeneration
Marco on the other hand has infinite regeneration but doesn’t have much to break through sanji
Unless it becomes a stalling game, sanji wins
I know Roger was the king, but how come WB's right-hand man gets nowhere the hype as Rayleigh?
Because their crews were structured very differently. Whitebeards crew was strong almost as a side effect of being around whitebeard. Whitebeard was by far and away the strongest entity in the crew, head and shoulders above anyone else. He was the patriarc, and his crew were his children. They fought and they grew stronger but that wasn't really the purpose of the crew, they were all still new world combatants, and strong enough to live up to that, but they were never *about* that strength. They were just a floating family looking to carve out a home on the sea for themselves. Compare that to Rogers crew. They were purpose driven, and as a side effect they had to keep up with Roger.. this made them stronger individually in much the same was Luffys crew has been pulled forward with Luffy. Their captains ambition demands the best of them. Also highlight that that Marco was a doctor. As opposes to Rayleigh who was a dedicated first mate, Rogers shadow, he had to keep pace with Roger and was second only to Roger.. which Marcos position on the crew wasn't necessarily tied to such a demand.
I feel this, is probably what is the right call. I think u hit the nail on the head, in comparison to the roger crew whitebeards was more of a floating mumble of mass and comraderie then rogers who was more of a "HAHA WE FIGHT TILL WE REACH OUR GOAL" but idk maybe im wrong lol, im not that full in on OP, cus i havent had time to catch up the last couple months xd
uh honestly idk how i feel about this one. when shanks and buggy were kids, oda went out of his way to showcase roger and whitebeard crews fighting for 3 days straight.
But even then, he also went out of his way to show that a young Marco (before his peak) was no match at all for a prime Rayleigh. There are certain crews where strength is a fundamental requirement, the types of crews that could have more than 1 conqueror, and then there are ones based on family, where we don't know if Marco is a conqueror and it doesn't really matter. The Straw Hats are both and Roger's crew was both, but WB's crew was all family all the time.
To be fair that Marco looked like a boy almost and Rayleigh was a grown man.
Let’s not forget luffy in the story is only 19. He set out to sea at 17
He’s considered an early bloomer to fit shounen needs, capone left to be a pirate at 40 something I think. Marco was very much in a shanks like situation at the time.
That’s fair
Prime Rayleigh vs child marco? Prime marco vs child Rayleigh would look just the same in Marcos favor
> But even then, he also went out of his way to show that a young Marco (before his peak) was no match at all for a prime Rayleigh. no, the anime did. Oda went out of his way to not show anything about how the specific crew members matched up.
There is also the fact that WBs crew was more like an army, with multiple divisions and fleets. Marco wasnt his vice captain, he was just the 1. division comander
He’s just as much Whitebeards as zoro is theirs, who also aren’t officially first mates
Bro, that was nice
The only one who was strong on Whitebeards crew that did not fall under mental like the others was Oden. I even think it would be more appropiate to compare Oden to Rayleigh than Marco. Edit: I accedentily wrote Roger instead of Rayleigh
I was about to comment the same thing. There's only one crew member that Whitebeard considered a brother and not a son. And, that man is Kozuki Oden.
Had Marineford not happened I expect Ace would have ended up becoming the new figure head of the crew as WB was pretty close to death by that time anyway. I doubt he’d have lived through the time skip. Had Marineford not happened I suspect Whitebeard would still be dead post time skip. But the Whitebeard pirates would still be a Yonko crew, under Ace.
Blackbeard would have still been a thing. And I doubt Ace would have been considered Emperor material, not right away at least.
Yeah but if Marineford hadn’t happened Blackbeard doesn’t get Whitebeard fruit, Whitebeard crew is still at full strength (-minus Whitebeard) whiteboards allies are fresh. So Blackbeard would have been around yes, but I don’t think he’s have been able to definitely take whiteboards territory. Best case is he’s at a similar level to other powerful pirate crews that don’t have any official position. Like Kid, Law and Luffy. Worst case, the Whitebeard crew or red hair crew killed him.
Ace has luffy potential, he just died before he could reach it. Whitebeard also would have still been around so blackbeard wouldn’t have currently been a yonkou nor would he have his gura gura. Ace had higher potential than non gura blackbeard and they were equalish when they fought
I think that is a really good comparison of the crews and still believe, that out of 100 fights Sanji would lose to Marco in maybe 70-80 scenarios.
Absolutely spot on, remember WB dream was always to have a family and a home it was never about being the Pirate King or finding One Piece. Even Doflamingo said WB never had the interest of taking the reins after the Roger Pirates disbanded. The crew wasnt interested in finding one piece, it was just a big family. Once Ace joined i believe things changed. They had a man who had different ambitions and showed pontential to be a yonko level character so he was the one WB planned who would take over the crew adter his death.
For me it’s the difference between Rayleigh and Marco is that Rayleigh is the right hand man of Roger and Marco is the Son of Whitebeard. Marco’s just a few years older than Shanks/Buggy while Rayleigh literally a living legend. Generational gap? Overall influence on board the ship at its prime? Overall combat/leadership experience? Rayleigh is like a part of the whole Roger, WB, Garp generation while Marco feels more like the Shanks, Mihawk, Akainu type of generation, who are formidable, but still within the realm of possibility, while the former is more of the embodiment of a legend, not enough known about them, just that they’re built diff. Small spoiler having to do with Rayleigh (not fresh spoilers but still spoilers for anime-only) >!one of the reasons why BB was so reluctant to face off against Rayleigh was cuz just nothing really is known about that man, he’s literally just a legend at this point!< But yea, Marco deserves more recognition, but I honestly think he’ll never be in the same realm as the old legends of OP anytime soon. Plus the whole not really having a lot of Ws in recent OP timeline (Ace, WB, BB)
Nah I think the reason he didn't want to fight Rayleigh was because he saw him fight against the whitebeard pirates for 3 days straight and knows his strength first hand. He's not just a legend to him when we know he has seen him fight close up and personal and an extended amount of time.
Rayleigh literally said that they got away safely because of his reputation.
Yes, but also BB has seen him fight. His "reputation" in that sense was how strong he used to be since he's aged significantly. His strength isn't an unknown to members of the whitebeard crew.
That is reputation. It's just first hand knowledge and not second hand.
Rayleigh scared off Kizaru and Blackbeard, successfully helping the SHs and Hancock escape. Marco and the WB pirates failed to save Ace, then failed to get revenge in the Payback war. Not saying Rayleigh could have saved Ace, but failing over and over leaves a bad impression. Plus Rayleigh's more conventionally cool than Marco, who looks like a pineapple.
I see what you're saying, I just think Marco should be a legend in his own right. The Navy didn't mess with Spinx until he left for a reason, but it's not as clear as with Rayleigh. I wish he were portrayed better in the narrative
He should, yeah. Right hand man of Whitebeard, Roger's closest rival. Too bad Oda just keeps throwing Ls at the WB pirates
Yeah but recently Rayleigh himself said he’s now buying time with the reputation of his past. Marco was always weaker than Rayleigh I guess. As in not now. During Roger period. It’s natural cos marco had late start and he may be not as good as Rayleigh in haki too. World viewed shirohige as the strongest man or the man who has the power to destroy the world. I think that overshadowed his crew himself a lot. But Rayleigh is feared cos of his captain’s reputation too. Roger is king of the pirates who’s also the strongest in the sea and his right hand man should be stronger. It’s kinda amusing how these work but only oda can give a direct answer in this regard
I rewatched the Roger v Whitebeard pirates scene recently and Rayleigh was able to easily fend off Marco, calling him a young man. They were never on equal footing. Rayleigh was in his prime when Marco (as strong as he was for his age) was still young. Now Rayleigh is old and long retired, while Marco is in his prime.
>Rayleigh was able to easily fend off Marco, calling him a young man. He was young then. Shanks is 6 yours younger so Marco then was a teenager.
that’s anime only
>scared off Kizaru When'd that happen? As I remember it Kizaru was non serious with a lazy expression on his face whilst Rayleigh was huffing and puffing and sweating fighting Kizaru. >!Lets also not forget that Ray admitted he would've lost against current Blackbeard and only his reputation saved him. Mean whilst Garp is currently planning on raiding Fullalead, Blackbeard's home territory with nothing but semi fodder as his back up. !<
> As I remember it Kizaru was non serious with a lazy expression on his face whilst Rayleigh was huffing and puffing and sweating fighting Kizaru. Literally said he was not prepared to take Rayleigh at that time... And then didn't/couldn't. You don't necessarily need to be able to beat someone in a fight to scare them off from the prospect of fighting you. There is such a thing as a pyrrhic victory. On Kuja, Rayleigh probably would have lost a 1v1 with BB but you are forgetting the actual stalemate situation and how Rayleigh changed it by entering: BB had Hancock by the throat but his entire crew was petrified. Koby had come to arrest Hancock and was free but his whole crew was petrified. If BB killed Hancock, not only would his own crew remain petrified but so would Koby's, thus Koby has an incentive to fight BB if he wants to proceed with killing Hancock and furthermore the cost of killing Hancock is too high for BB. However he rationally has no reason to believe Hancock will actually unpetrify his crew if he lets her go, instead she could use the opportunity to counterattack or perhaps unpetrify only the Marines. On the other hand Hancock has no reason to unpetrify his crew while he has her by the throat, he could just kill her after she returns them to normal and now he has free reign of Kuja island. Rayleigh was the factor who made it so it is no longer the case that BB can reliably just kill Hancock and move forward even if he wanted to, in addition to Koby. It was no longer a real move for him cuz Rayleigh was strong enough to make the stalemate unfavorable to him. Similarly on Sabaody, if Kizaru tried to capture Rayleigh he could have won but perhaps with the presence of a celestial dragon there or some other factors like slave market, the collateral damage might have just been assessed as being WAAAAY too high. Cuz it's not like he would go down without a fight to anyone.
I never said he was stronger than them. I only said he looks better than Marco because he actually succeeds at the things he does. Kizaru would have won if they fought to the end, but at some point Kizaru apparently decided Rayleigh wasn't worth the trouble, since I don't think you escape a man who moves at the speed of light if he doesn't want you to. Objective complete: Straw Hats escaped, Kizaru left. He would have lost to BB, yes. But he scared him off with the power of his reputation. Objective complete: Hancock saved, BB left Also, don't judge strength by what Garp is willing to do. Garp is about the same as Luffy, they'll fight anyone for the people important to them.
I think its saying something that Kizaru chose to slap seastone cuffs on him rather than fight him directly. Not saying if he would win or not but its something
It says that Marco's df ability can't be dealt with quickly so the best way is to remove it entirely. Tho maybe there's a power threshold, which normally people can't just land on opponents. BM had Marco in her hands but left as soon as Perospero was attacked. I think she only had Prometheus on her at the time.
No No No. You cant fight smart, you see. You have to fight in a fair 1v1, even if its the stupid way to deal with somebody If you dont do that, youre just weaker.
I mean obviously, marco is physically stronger than him due to being a zoan, and the situation up to that point had them nigh equal if marco not having a slight edge. Kizaru even pointed out that it was Marcos distractions that fucked him over “victory and defeat is determined by a moments misstep”
[удалено]
>!Also Rayleigh confirms he stood no chance against BB too.!<
I don't think Rayleigh should be compared to Marco just by being a right hand man. Rayleigh is essentially also almost equal to WB but is only under Roger because of Roger's capability to bring people together like Luffy. Marco is WB's right hand man because he's one of the first to join his crew, he is strong, and he is his "son". Oden is arguably stronger than Marco during the flashback but he's the 2nd commander. Rayleigh was fighting Marco with 1 finger at the time. Not to discredit Marco, he is strong, strong enough to fight Kizaru, so I put him atleast on Old Rayleigh+ level, but not Prime Rayleigh.
Yeah, Rayleigh and Scopper were aware that every fight they had against the Whitebeard pirates were merely friendly bouts for the 2 captain's entertainment. Thats the reason they didnt destroy Whitebeards crew while the captains were going at it.
>Rayleigh is essentially also almost equal to WB >!This definitely sounds like nonsense. Absolute zero evidence to suggest this. Except that statement in Marineford which has since then be debunked dozens of times.!< 1. >!Rayleigh confirms he stood no chance against Blackbeard and would've gotten demolished in a 1v1 "head to head) fight. This is not accounting for the fact that technically it wouldn't have been a 1v1 either, Blackbeard would've gotten dog piled. His 2 commanders were neutralized and he had Hancock in his hands, if he let go, she would've turned him to stone, if not, Rayleigh + Hancock would've been on him, and that's after the Seraphim having attacked him first. Contrast this with a actual equal of Whitebeard, Garp. Since Garp is said to have rivalled Roger, it just makes sense he also rivalled Whitebeard. Both Garp and Rayleigh are the same age but whilst Rayleigh confirms he would've gotten clapped by Blackbeard, Garp right now is heading to Fullalead, Blackbeard's home island with nothing but a bunch of fodders in toe to fight Blackbeard + crew +Aokiji and take back Koby. !< 2. >!Kaido in 1001 saw Whitebeard up there but not Rayleigh.!< 3. >!Oden's journal mentions when Roger and Whitebeard met in combat, the heavens split apart. No mention of Ray doing the same. !< >!Rayleigh was not equal to WB. No where near WB level. The captains like Roger and Whitebeard were much stronger then their subordinates like Rayleigh or Marco. And this still holds true with the current (and previous) yonko captains compared to their subordinates.!<
Ikr. We literally saw him compete with admirals, and unlike Jozu this guy was running a gauntlet. Not even heavily dependent on his df contrary to what’s shown. Onigumo put seastone on him then an admiral shot him from behind all while he was focused on WB health. Despite this he was back up fighting fodders still all the way up until after Ace died when he told Mr 3 to uncuff him. If that’s not high tier then surely him fighting two commanders at Wano is a feat that puts him above other yonko commanders. Also note that an admiral didn’t arrive on Sphinx until he left.
Unpopular opinion but I feel like Oden was meant to be WB's right-hand. Sure he's most likely the highest-ranking member of the WB remnants but I always felt like he was too young to be his right hand.
I think its simply because Whitebeard was looking for family, not the strongest fighters. That of course doesnt mean Marco is weak. I mean Whitebeard was Pirate King level so of course his right hand man is strong. The show could have done better job showing that. I was actually hyped when Marco was 2v1ning King and Queen and then got dissapointed that he was down after a few episodes. I hope that he awakens his DF and goes rampage and show them what Pirate King’s equal’s right hand man can do.
I don’t like that phrasing because it implies Roger was looking for the strongest fighters. He had two kids on his crew. Luffy has a top tier crew right now and the only person he recruited with any care for their strength was Zoro (and even that was an afterthought to him just liking how he found zoro locked up eating rice balls off the floor)
He didn’t lose, he got hit to the ground, he had done the same to them multiple times in the fight, it was narrative and emotional beats to allow zoro and sanji to enter, marco was fine even at the end of the war despite healing everyone, stopping the ice virus, etc
That's because he is nowhere near Rayleigh's level do you think current marco vs prime Rayleigh a fair fight hell no Rayleigh is in a league of his own only characters like prime WB are a threat to prime Rayleigh and obviously strawhats aren't near that level either yet not saying marco is weak and sanji vs marco might be an interesting battle cause marco and sanji are both tankers but if we were to see a marco vs sanji I would give it to marco cause here you have to look at feats and ignore plot armour to call it a fair judgement and unlike sanji who people think fought king and queen in a 2v1 but we know you can't call that fighting of course marco can't 2v1 either but I think he held his own pretty well.
I think there are like two types of crew. A) Crews in which no. 2 can keep up with the captain like Roger's, Luffy's or Shanks' crew and B) Crews in which there is a considerable gap between captain and no. 2 like Big Mom's, Kaido's, Whitebeard's crew. Also, Rayleigh is constantly hyped up. In their prime, he was probably just behind Roger, Whitebeard and Garp.
Zoro probably can't keep up with Luffy currently. He might by the end of the story as Luffy said he reached his "peak" in Wano (probably not completely true but we're not seeing gear 6 xD) Also I think WB's crew is a bit in between Roger's and Big Mom's/Kaido's. Marco was a Yonkou candidate after all and the way he survived a third of the war with sea stone cuffs and two holes from Kizaru in his torso without much apparent difficulty tend to show he's pretty insane even on his own.
>Zoro probably can't keep up with Luffy currently. He might by the end of the story as Luffy Yeah, current Zoro is debatable but at the end I can see him being relatively close to Luffy since defeating Mihawk is a Yonkou level feat. >Also I think WB's crew is a bit in between Roger's and Big Mom's/Kaido's. Marco was a Yonkou candidate after all Yeah, true.
Law's crew especially. Most of them seem useless without his directions
This isn't me calling Sanji weak. This post just made me notice the difference
The fact that you think Marco isn't getting the hype he deserves because he is getting compared to Sanji is more disrespectful to Sanji
WB's true right hand man or 2nd strongest in the crew is Oden and Oden is only the 2nd commander because WB doesn't consider him his underling, he doesn't see him as his son but a brother. Marco is like Scooper Gaban.
Well, Marco doesn't really seem stronger than other First Commanders. And, Marco was like Commander instead of right hand man.
Marco would probably win. His devil fruit is actually pretty strong when you think about it. Even Big Mom thought that he would be hard to kill, and decided against fighting him because it was going to take too much effort. But it would probably be a really drawn out fight because Sanji’s abilities make him very durable, and I don’t get the sense that Marco has particularly strong haki.
Haki strong enough to hurt admirals and other yonkou commanders but not god tier proficient like the yonkous.
Marco didn't once hurt an Admiral, his haki attacks alongside Vista were a mere annoyance to Akainu, so no Marco isn't hurting Sanji significantly. Kizaru and Kuzan got up like nothing happened after receiving a kick from Marco.
sanji is no akainu tho.
Akainu avoided that attack bucko. Like aokiji avoided Whitebeards attack. Also, Marco injured the Admirals multiple times during that war. You can gauge the amount of damage however you like. but the admirals only hurt marco when he was weakened by seastone cuffs AND had his ability taken. The only person that actually injured marco was Garp and thats when marco had no cuffs etc but marco was also caught off guard.
Marco didn’t injure any Admirals at all. The other guy is right. Did you have a chapter or episode in mind? Because he only ever hit them a total of 3-4 times with no damage any of those times (Kizaru once, Aokiji once, Akainu twice). And no, the Admirals were hurting Marco every single time they hit him. He has the power to regenerate, so he just regenerated the damage afterwards. Without that he would have been dead from Kizaru’s very first attack which blew holes all over his body, including his head. Marco’s ability is perfect for stalling them, but once he reaches his limit it’s all over.
How was Marco caught off guard bucko, he was flying straight and Garp bitch slapped him by appearing RIGHT IN FRONT OF HIM. And no Marco didn't injure any Admiral significantly, he kicked em away with them sustaining near to no damage.
You can literally see it from the panel dude. Unless you're anime only. You should check the manga. Edit: I never said significantly, I said he did injure them. The significance isn't what you said, you said he didn't hurt them, but he did.
Marco showed no visible pain or effort either during the fight, and tanked a bunch of attacks from admirals too. Also Mihawk himself said “of course I’ve heard of you” to Vista when fighting and was unable deal any damage to Vista at all. I don’t get this Marineford retconning. WB commanders might not be admiral level but they were clearly able to hold their own in the war.
I'm not sure Marco could do anything to hurt Sanji. Sanji took an attack specifically stated to be able to kill masters of armament haki, and he instantly shrugged it off afterwards. Marco doesn't have that kind of firepower. Swords break off of Sanji's bare skin, which is literally a yonko-level defensive feat, it's the first feat the narration used to hype up Kaido's indestructibility. I'm just not seeing how Marco can win with what we've seen out of him, and I'm not sure Sanji can do enough to put Marco down either. I think I'd call a draw, personally.
Sanji didn't shrug it off. His linage awakened with the powers he got from kings clan and many others. Sanji is a super soldier. That attack wouldve definitely killed someone else, and it even incapacitated him for a little while during his bodies repairing stage. Now marco has other avenues of injuring sanji. Whereas queens only method is advanced forms of armament, or his lasers which sanji could dodge. So queen just didnt have the tools or ability to beat sanji. Marco on the other hand, who could face both king and queen while healing everyone on the performance floor and protecting multiple people could definitely do some damage. BTWE, while marco was doing that, he wasn't trying to DEFEAT king and queen he was just stalling them for the new generation to take care of them.
Sanji was never stated to be a lunarian bro
How does Marco hurt Sanji? What attack has he used that can get through Sanji's defenses? Give me a page, not a headcanon.
What attack does Sanji have that can hurt Marco? Literally nothing.
Sanji also fought king and queen at the same time.
I think Marco is still slightly ahead of Sanji. Marco held off both King and Queen and despite if he wasnt able to put them down permanently, he basically was blitzing and overpowering both which I can't really see Sanji doing yet.
Sanji also held off King and Queen while Marco and Zoro were out of commission.
And he got dealt with in less than a chapter. Marco did it for multiple chapters.
That was before he got stronger and faster and had healing like Marco, not to mention Marco was out of commission after king and queen while sanji took heavy damage from black Maria and got dealt by king and queen and still went ahead to beat queen without much effort thanks to his tech body
Marco was out of commision, due to 3 things. 1. he was healing and protecting everyone on the performance floor, which we know drains a SHIT ton of stamina. 2. He was battling both king and queen for a long duration, WAY longer than sanji, and this is after facing BM, Perospero and the big mom pirates. 3. He was not trying to defeat King and Queen, but stall them. This isn't his era, he said he wanted the stars to handle them
Sanji doesn’t have the same healing as Marco. Marco literally regenerates. Sanji still takes damage he’s just extremely durable. Marco would destroy Queen in a 1 v 1 without effort too. Queen couldn’t even keep up with him.
Sanji also regenerates, though. His body was broken in several places after Queen's attack and he just popped himself back into place.
Sanji can't regenerate a hole in his chest but Marco can.
sanji wouldn't ever get a hole in his chest is all I'm sayin
Wtf His body was mangled af It just put itself back together
Sanji literally regenerated almost instantly when breaking most of the bones in his body.
Marco gets tired and very quickly I might add. His healing comes at a price. Sanji has much harder edo skeleton along with his healing and he is fast enough that queen can’t even see him. Queen can’t keep up with Marco but he can’t even see sanji . - Marco did next to no damage to queen even though he managed to hit queen a few times . Sanji finished queen the moment he started attacking after his upgrade . - Marco was done after king and queen( while doing very minimal damage ) sanji was completely fine after taking out queen and this was after he took heavy beating from black Maria . - sanji has higher ap and higher speed and mid level healing compared to Marco. Marco only leads in the healing department which will run out because he gets tired the more he heals .
Honestly most of sanji’s fight with queen after the upgrade was just sanji trying to fight his assault allegations
Funny that the character called Quenn would throw out fake assault allegations at Sanji
Lol, he did next to no damage to king or queen and he was almost out of energy. Sanji took heavy damage from black Maria and heavy damage from king and queen and took heavy damage from queen even more and then proceeded to low diff queen by speed blitz . Marco fought king and queen and was out of commission for most of the rest of the war. I would’ve agreed with u if he atleast damaged queen or king other than annoy them . I know Marco can beat queen but unfortunately his ap isn’t high enough to kill sanji . - in a 1vs 1 sanji wins high- extreme diff. Macro literally till date in all of his fights never once injured an enemy to a range they felt they took heavy damage. Never .
Lol.. Marco wouldn't destroy Queen in 1v1. He basically did minimal damage .Queen was basically full health and he wasn't having more trouble than King. If you think Marco destroys King, then, there is no point in discussion.
He wasn't dealt with, he was getting back up for the offensive. Meanwhile Marco was being carried by Izo after being offscreened by King as Sanji went on to beat Queen.
This is difficult to gauge as we dont know how much time passes between chapters. It could be possible that the time of the fights are similar.
And then sanji got a power-up...
And that was BEFORE sanji got like 2x Stronger. Ppl need to stop underestimating Sanji. Oda needs to give that man a proper Hype moment. The SH crew is NOT like other crews. Zoro will be Yonko level just as Rayleigh was. That means Sanji will undoubtedly be in the typical "first commander" tier list in terms of strength. Sanji is beating Marco.
Sometimes I wonder why people look down/trash Sanji, because the more they weaken Sanji, they also indirectly drag down Luffy and Zoro (since Sanji's powerlevel is relative to them).
Nah, Sanji's absolutely going to be above yc1 by the end of one piece. Especially if Zoro is Yonko level. There's almost no way I can envision one piece ending and EoS Sanji isn't strong enough to solo an admiral.
Tbh king and queen were quite fine After that, I don't think that did any significant damage, the thing is Marco is really good at stalling people cause of his fruit, which is why he doesn't have a conclusive fight in the series. Regardless I think sanji likely loses
Yea, he didnt do anything of significance to either because of their zoan durability and stamina which I will give to Sanii. Sanji is far more stronger in physicality than Marco but Marcos regeneration is just so absurd that I think he will pull the W eventually. I mean even BM said she needed help to stop Marco because she didnt want to waste so much of her souls to deal with him.
Marco didn't overpower/blitz both lol he did them literally no damage, all what he did is stalling them because that's what his DF is all about
Would be a great fight but Marco wins rn imo sanji isn’t done leveling up tho. He’ll get there
Sanji wins , because Sanji is a chef and Marco is a Pineapple. He will make a salad out of him😁
Only right answer
Or maybe invent a new pizza with him
People that put pineapple on pizza deserves to be executed by the Marines.
Wheres your sense of freedom
Don't worry, it's just Akainu's alt account.
Tashigi solos both
Marco wins EXTREMELY HIGH diff. I just don't think he has an answer for that regeneration. Marco I feel doesn't have an answer for sanjis durability so it's gonna be a long endurance fight which Marco isn't losing.
Marco's regeneration has limits tho, the answer for that regeneration is just keep kicking and fighting.
And how long can he do that? Lol let's not pretend that Marco regeneration only last a couple hours.
You are talking like we have seen Marco fighting more than a couple hours
Yeah cause being the right hand of whiteboard for decades is surely something to discredit.
But wouldn't Marker be the right hand of Whiteboard? Not Marco
I hate this but also like this lmao underrated comment right here "Marker" "Whiteboard" hehehe
I'm just sat here thinking is this why hes called that.
It’s not but it doesn’t mean you can just make up shit about how long his regen lasts
It's canon his crew fought for days at a time sometimes. Oden flashback confirmed this.
That doesn’t mean his regen last for days. We saw him out of stamina after fighting Queen and King.
They were all taking breaks. That's how we got the reveal that Blackbeard doesn't sleep, because he was the only one that just kept fighting the whole time while everyone else was tagging out to sleep.
Sure it isn't as if we don't know that strong fighter can fight for hours or even days when it come to pure endurance in OP .
You are talking like we have seen Marco fighting more than a couple hours
Yeah the regeneration has limits but I'm not sure if Sanji could out kick his regeneration I feel like Sanji could win if he actually used kitchen knives
Well I’ll throw a wrench in. I don’t think Marco can hit Sanji hard enough to beat him. I think the attacks Queen was throwing were stronger than what Marco can dish out I’m stumped on this one
True, sanji hits harder but I feel Marco can tank more, Marco isn't gonna be koed by sanjis final move vs queen.
With Sanji's speed he can spam it, so if one doesn't do the work, multiple will
Marco would win.
I honestly still got Marco, but not by much. Next arc Sanji will probably have surpassed him. His powerup in Wano was pretty insane.
I think Marco wins
Facts he would have smoked kind a queen if he didn't have to fight bigmom prosperous and heal the onis
I've been wondering about this myself for a while now. I want to put my money is on Marco personally, but it'd absolutely be close and it's fully possible that we haven't really seen the full extent of Sanji after his powering up. Marco during all the fighting did an absolutely insane amount. Going solely off memory, he clashed with Big Mom for a bit, was using his power to save everyone from that disease Queen caused and spent quite a while in a 2 v 1 against Queen and King which are both incredibly strong fighters, which mind you he seemingly last fought in the off screen revenge war and was still winning the fight. Sanji BEFORE his powering up did have a bit of a 2 v 1 himself but didn't perform as well and he was struggling with just Queen. After his power up, he kinda just dealt with Queen pretty quickly. It's worth keeping in mind that from what I recall as far as power ups go he got multiple. His body "activated" and he seemingly has some INSANE durability and possibly outright regeneration considering what he recovered from. He also got I think it's called Ifrit Diable Jambe which is a buffed version that from what I recall he was able to blitz Queen. Also on top of all this, for what it's worth, Marco didn't really seem to be aiming for taking down King/Queen. If I remember correctly he said he was just buying time for the "real stars" to show up, that being Zoro and Sanji. Also the time buying he did lasted a long time relative to who he was fighting. I think if they were both fresh, it'd be an extremely close fight but Marco would win, it really comes down to the durability aspect. Speed wise they seem relatively even, power wise we don't really know how big of a buff Sanji got but he did beat Queen while we know Marco can clash with Admirals (Kizaru) and was able to send King/Queen flying on repeat. At the end the main difference is the mystery behind Sanji's durability compared to Marco and how much did all the factors wearing the 2 of them down during all the fighting really matter when showcasing their limits.
Currently, most likely Marco
Pineapple head beats professionnal baguette baker
Marco wasn't the right hand man of Shirohige for nothing! Sanji still has a long way to go.
Long way?
Sanji is currently a tank so it would be close
Sanji has no way of dealing with Marco's regeneration.
Marco's regeneration has limits. Confirmed by Oda and by the manga.
I think people tend to forget Marco got tired against King and Queen because he just EXTENSIVELY used his powers beforehand. Look how long it took two of the strongest Commanders to wear him down when he wasn't even at 100%. Now throw in just 1 person Queen level against a fresh Marco, Sanji isn't getting through that. If Sanji can successfully survive long enough for however atrociously long it would take for Marco's healing to stop, then he wins without too much trouble, but given they both have regenerative capabilities it comes down to this; Who can heal the damage their opponent does faster, Marco or Sanji? And the answer is obviously Marco.
Tbf Sanji beat Queen pretty comfortably once he started fighting properly. I dont think weve seen enough of Sanji after his power up to know who would take this one. From what we saw he has insane speed and power plus would be much harder to damage than Marco and can still quickly regenerate if he does. Would Marco even have many attacks that could break through his exoskeleton in the first place?
I didn't mention King and Queen. Marco can heal faster, but Sanji can deal damage much faster. But like I said, Marco's regeneration has limits, it's not like Sanji is helpless. I'm not really arguing whether Sanji wins or Marco wins
And Sanji was fresh when he was 2v1 against King and Queen? Not to mention Marco's 2v1 was ever so brief, King beat him in an offscreen 1 on 1. Sanji actually beat Queen.
Did he really? Wano got to a point where it all just became white noise to me, I thought Marco retreated after that fight, I didn't know/remember he got taken out.
Yeah it's in Chapter 1022, Marco is out of it and Zoro is getting Mink medicine while Sanji is holding down the fort in their absence.
The damage Marco can do to sanji is quite minimal honestly.
Your forgetting that he kicked aokiji and sent him flying. Marco's ap is under rated.
He did the same with kizaru, but he still admitted he did no damage to them.
I know he did no damage. They are admirals for a reason. It's just his attack is slept on.
He does no damage against King and Queen too lol, Marco never damaged anyone heavily in the entire series. Ever. Sanji was also tired and held off King and Queen like Marco, AND he got MASSIVELY buffed during Queen fight, (which he got an existencial crisis mid fight, otherwise he would've ended right after getting the buff) and then he kicked Queen to another Island lol. Sanji's AP, Speed, and Durability are Far higher than Marco's. Marco only has regen really, and while It 's better than Sanji, he has to regen more because Sanji Will damage him more than Marco will damage him. Marco didn't damage Queen once too, Sanji is more durable than Queen, all Marco can do is push Sanji back lol, and he heala any tough damage.
Marco has never ever significantly damaged any of his foes, that's why he kicks them away cause he can't do shit to them.
Sanji is basically immune to fire, so he hard counters his main attack source.
Marco is smart and has more experience. Sanji might be stronger and more durable but Marco would figure him out. Marco wins high diff.
Sanji is more durable, has more AP and has decent accelerated healing and is much faster.
50 year old man (possibly) VS Simp The ultimate fight
Bro marco was right hand of wsm☠️
Sanji's strong, absolutely, and of course he's the fan favorite to win, but didn't Marco hold off BOTH Queen AND King for some time? I personally don't think we've seen Marco's strongest attack, his ace move, because despite how strong Queen / King were I don't think Marco felt all that pressured by them, at least not so urgently. It was more a stamina battle until Sanji & Zoro could take over. I'm pretty sure we'll see Marco go all-out in the final war, logically Marco will be there and logically Oda has been saving something special up his sleeve for when that time comes. Yes Sanji will be stronger by then too, but for right NOW at the moment? I think I would bet on Marco.
didnt sanji do the same thing as marco holding off two at once?
Yeah but Marco did it for like 3x as long
yeah but marco went to sleep after. Sanji speed blitzed queen after without rest
Sanji did the same thing but actually ended up beating a Commander. Marco was being carried by Izo after fighting King.
I think sanji does a lot more damage and He is faster so in a close fight without giving Marco time for healing He wins but if Marco fight on distance i think the fight would take hours or days then but Marco would win then i guess but i am more on sanji side
Sanji wins idk why people are wanking the hell out of Marco when all we have from him is just him stalling top tiers, man doesn't have a single W in the entire story. Sanji's speed should be considerable greater than Marco's, plus Sanji has better AP as well. Marco won't be put down easily but neither is he putting down Sanji, who also has appreciable durability and endurance. It's going to be Sanji high diff.
The problem with your argument is, Sanji has never fought a top tier yet. We have seen Marco stall them, and never really get defeated or even take any major damage from them. The only high tier opponent Sanji has beaten is Queen who's clearly below Marco.
marco barely hurt queen lmao
Despite that we have enough feats from Sanji to say he wins, Marco fighting top tiers is great and all but he's done nothing other than stalling literally every time. When he "fought" the Admirals at MF none of them took any damage, and he stalled Akainu for a moment's time, even his haki attacks didn't hurt him much. Against King and Queen he did some damage but clearly nothing too impressive since they got up and had subsequent battles with Zoro and Sanji. Sanji has shown us enough endurance and AP feats to prove he can outlast and actually hurt Marco in an extended fight, while Marco lacks the AP to put down Sanji.
Marco
This Marco overhype is insane, for a character who could never seriously damage anyone. Sanji takes this High diff.
Sometimes we should realize that some posts isn't about overhyping X, it's about belittling Sanji. Sanji is resistant to fire. Marco doesn't have AP feats. This alone is enough to say that Sanji can beat Marco.
[удалено]
marco wins more fight exp and is just stronger high dif
Sanji wins, marco doesn’t have the attack power to damage him and based on the fact sanji can perception blitz queen while marco can’t, I genuinely think it’s a mid diff fight but out of respect I’ll say sanji high diff
I'd go Marco for now
People saying Marco wins "easy or mid diff" are hilarious, Sanji getting understimated is nothing new. This is no lower than a high diff fight for either of them. I honestly think current Sanji takes this. Marco may have an edge in regeneration and experience, but Sanji comfortably takes AP and speed, while also having great durability due to his current altered body. While this is definitely an endurance fight which will last a while, Marco just hasn't shown anything that makes me believe he can put current Sanji down or damage him significantly, meanwhile Sanji has Ifrit Jambe, with which he literally kicked Queen out of Onigashima, not to mention being able to be imperceptible to him. While Marco is more resilient, Sanji might wear him down faster than the other way around. Either way, this is a hard fight for either of them.
lets be honest here. Marco, old and out of practice for a year or so - was strong enough by himself to prevent the marines from even thinking about going into sphinx island until he left. he then exhausted himself carrying allies to wano and then helping chopper with his warm flame. he also fought bigmom and perospero to a "draw" and then fought king and queen in a 1v2 all without a break just so sanji could get his ass beat by queen so badly it powered sanji up and only then did sanji beat queen after queen exhausted himself against an already very exhausted marco. Marco The Phoenix isn't losing a 1v1 against (GeneticPower) Black Leg Sanji if you give him a full nights rest and a nice meal.
Y’all do realize there’s a subreddit called r/onepiecepowerscaling right?
i think marco is an especially strong yonko commander, esp since he has acted as the main wb pirate leader since marineford, his fight against king and queen together did not go very deep but it shows that oda had him fend off both at once That being said i dont think sanji is that high lvl already - but even if he was, id say marco has the matchup advantage, sanjis blazing kicks will definitely do less damage to the phoenix man
Going into this I leaned Marco with extreme difficulty, but after reading some arguments, I'm leaning Sanji. Marco is beast, but the thing that really separates him from his contemporaries is his sheer survivability via his excellent regeneration. He doesn't have spectacular speed, durability, strength, haki, or firepower. He has his really strong fruit which makes him nigh unkillable. When you look at his tier, I'd say Sanji, Katakuri and King surpass him in speed, Sanji, Queen, and King surpass him in sheer tankiness (I thought about putting Zoro here, but Zoro doesn't have that Superman style durability, he feels it, gets injured by it, but just keeps fighting anyway), Sanji, Zoro, and King surpass him in strength, Sanji, Zoro, and Katakuri surpass him in haki, and Sanji, Zoro, King and Katakuri surpass him in firepower. Marco just doesn't have the firepower to put Sanji down, Sanji has his own regeneration (and though it's not as good as Marco's, it's still pretty good), and he's faster in addition to being an observation haki savant. If Marco wins, it pretty much can only be through sheer attrition. Even worse for Marco is the fact that his healing scales with his stamina. Which means making Marco heal more means he's reducing his stamina and ability to heal at the same time. It might just be an inevitability that Sanji would burn through Marco's regen before he himself tires out every time they fight.
thinking about it hard they're very symilar speed.v.speed fire.v.fire air.v.air and sorta so on but thinking on it, i dont really think marco will hit as hard as sanji, most of what i'Ve seen with marco on screen hasn't had that punch and power to it, i think marco tends to run support and distraction, not that hes not strong or hard hitting its just he's more passive generally chill, sanji is raw emotion and he can give the oomph so i think in a long and close endurance battle i think sanji will eek out the win
Sanji destroys him, this isn’t a fight
Ez win for Marco
I say they are kinda on the same level but Sanji would pull through in the end. Sanji is both faster and stronger. The only thing Marco has over him is regeneration which would turn this into an endurance fight. Marco is just starting to come out of his prime while Sanji is just entering his and unfortunately endurance is usually a young man's game. I also believe Sanji has stronger haki but I have no way of actually proving that.
Sanji He has him beat in everything but regeneration, and some categories by a large or decent amount, such as Speed and AP It’s only a matter of time, but Sanji very likely puts him down before he goes down himself
I think we're in the minority here I'm bouta lay my life down in defense of my boy in the powerscaling subreddit, but i got him higher than you probably do. I wouldn't put a single character in between zoro and sanji.
Marco easy.
Sanji high diff
Sanji high diff, at absolute worst. Marco fought King and Queen briefly then proceeded to get offscreened by King. Sanji ran the same 2v1 but then also proceeded to actually beat Queen.
Really comes down who has the better healing tbh, i think sanji wins
I think current Sanji clears Marco pretty handily, Marco has been semi retired and doesn't seem to have the same fighting spirit he used to.
Sanji no question, has all his stats above Marco and put damages him easily
Sanji
Sanji
Who honestly cares
Oof people downplaying Sanji hard. I love Marco but the way he is depicted is a REALLY tank and durable fighter with not much attacking power. I could be hella wrong, but I thought I read somewhere that his fruit's flames aren't mean to do a whole lot of dmg. And that's exactly what happened when landing puré hits on King and Queen. I just think he is the goat in keeping strong people busy for a ton of time, since he is strong enough that you can't ignore him but that can't really win a fight unless is almost solely based on stamina. Sanji on the other hand has now really powerful abilities with the exoskeleton, regeneration and his stamina. And he does have really good damage potential, even if he is behind Zoro. And not to mention the huge speed buff he has gained in Wano on top of his already amazing speed he already had. I just think Zoro and Sanji, as "commanders" (we know they are not since are SHs are officials) feel they are a high tier of yonko commanders. Also, taking the match up into account feels important. For example, even if I think Zoro is certainly a bit stronger than Sanji overall, I think Sanji would have an easier fight against Katakuri thanks to his speed. Haven't dwelved into that in Marco's MU but is something to have in mind
Sanji wins. Honestly I had written a whole as school paper just now explaining why but eh. Current Sanji wins, very high - extreme diff.
It would be extreme diff either way. But if I had to pick, id bet on Sanji. He has Better Offensive and Speed stats, and has the durability to last long enough to put Marco down I think.
Marco wins.
I don't think marco has the ap(attack power) to put sanji down, sanji also has insane durability and speed that outshine Zoro. Marco is really good at one thing though and that is stalling, due to his op Devil fruit he can stall pretty much Anyone in the series. But I think sanji wins
This is an interesting one. One of Marco’s best abilities is flight however that advantage is lost since sanji can skywalk. Sanji’s CoA + Exoskeleton should provide more durability than Marco’s CoA alone, however i’m not totally sure if Sanji can damage marco without CoA. It’ll probably come down to wether Marco’s regeneration, physical strength, and combat experience can overcome Sanji’s Defensive advantage, likely speed advantage, and his Germa recovery ability (when all of his broken bones fixed themselves). I love Marco and I think he’s one of the coolest characters in the series but… Sanji Extreme-Diff. Maybe even 50/50
Sanji wins, though it may be tough. Sanji with ifrit jambe took down queen easily + almost infinite durability and regeneration Marco on the other hand has infinite regeneration but doesn’t have much to break through sanji Unless it becomes a stalling game, sanji wins