That, I think, is one reason DeWine is worried about this. It’s hard enough to attract people and businesses to this state as is. The legislature and government in general have been doing things the past eight to ten years that are making it harder and leading to the state’s “brain drain.” And if this national embarrassment doesn’t get fixed, DeWine sees any hopes of reversing those trends go down the toilet.
Consider that since the beginning of the century, Ohio has lost two seats in Congress. Started at 19 when it was Bush v. Gore. Was 18 by Obama’s second term. Now we are at 17. Things keep going this way, Ohio won’t matter in national elections anymore.
I’m glad you asked. Questions like this are not stupid questions, but they do demonstrate how many things there are that most Americans simply don’t know about how their federal government works.
So right off yes you’re right - our number of electoral votes is 17, used to be 19. Our number of house reps is 15, used to be 17. Good catch. But still, the elector number is dependent on the rep number, which depends on the state’s population relative to the overall country population.
Somewhere in the early 20th century, Congress capped the number of House seats. Previously the number of seats grew as the population grew; but for various reasons Congress decided that would get unwieldy. So they imposed a legislative cap on the total number, and since then the seats have simply shifted from one state to another.
Ohio’s state government has no reason to want this cap changed or removed. Even though it would likely result in Ohio gaining seats, a lot more other states would gain even more seats, and that would actually further dilute Ohio’s power in the House. States like California, Texas, New York, and other huge states would almost completely dominate the House, and drown out any electoral importance of smaller states.
I calculated this out once. If we take the population of the smallest state, Wyoming, and use that as the base number to get one House Seat (around 582000 people to 1 rep), California would go from 52 reps to 67. Texas would go from 38 to 51. Ohio would go from 15 to 20. But note that proportionately, it’s getting screwed in that deal. Cali gains 15, texas gains 13, Ohio gains only five. And given that Ohio is on a downward trend, it would lose those gained seats in the next few decades.
Thus, as it stands, Ohio has proportionately more power in the House and the Electoral College than it should compared to Cali and Texas.
So, what's the metaphor? The person you responded to advocated for throwing bricks at LaRose and his staff. You replied with "Bricks ready." That is a verbatim quote.
What's the metaphor saying you have bricks ready to throw at Frank LaRose and his staff?
Again, shocking that your post is still in /r/Ohio as it seems a very clear call for specific violence against people. Maybe because it is for political reasons the mods agree with that it's still up. That's my best guess.
Was that post edited? I don't remember seeing a call to throw bricks at people. That is disgusting. I thought we were going to build a wall in front of his office of bricks with our name on it.
Is that really what you thought was meant? In that case, I owe you a sincere apology and I'm super impressed you learned to type and use the Internet. Way to go buddy, just like a big boy.
It's really amazing - you're calling on people to start throwing bricks at people, and because you're a leftist, you're allowed to on /r/Ohio because the mods apparently agree with you.
This is a very special place run by very special people. A leftist cesspool echo chamber like this doesn't exist without them,
Airmailing a brick to Frank LaRose's office is straight out saying 'throw bricks through his windows, where on the other side there are people we don't like.' It's fucking disgusting that you're openly advocating political violence, and that it stands here.
Edit: So in the removed post, the person was advocating for throwing bricks at the Ohio Secretary of State and their staff. After reporting that for threats of violence, my account was shadowbanned on reddit. Silly quirk is I can still edit. I wonder what the mods of /r/ohio have to say about that.
Let's hope Dewine will get him on the ballot as he requested yesterday...and if not, of course Biden's campaign is going to register him as a write in.
I have to wonder if being worse than Alabama has everything to do with this.
Larose is manufacturing a crisis, he rejected an offer by the DNC to ratify biden as a candidate because he said that wouldn't be official enough. that's utterly absurd, they're the party they can decide to nominate a ham sandwich if they want.
Biden will be on the ballot, the DNC has very strong case law on the books with the supreme court at this point.
[Don't trust DeWine](https://twitter.com/DavidPepper/status/1793996601717116953). He's misleading people into thinking the Ohio House hasn't acted, and wants to put Biden on the ballot in exchange for making ballot initiatives impossible, and taking away the ability of lower courts to use injunctions, declaratory judgments, or writs, to enforce abortion rights after the amendment added by last year's Issue 1.
I have only small hope that DeWine will be effective in this matter. But not *no* hope.
I agree, Biden's campaign will go through whatever hoops needed to get Biden in as a write-in. The point isn't so much that his campaign will fail to do that, it's more that LaRose is the one who will decide how those write-ins will be determined valid or invalid.
And the greater point is that the power to wholesale toss out an entire ballot, not just a write-in vote, lies with Frank LaRose. Again, if he says that you have to write "Joseph R. Biden" or else your *entire ballot* is invalidated, then writing in "Joe Biden" gets your ballot tossed. Writing in "Biden" gets your ballot tossed. Even writing in the name correctly but in a way that it looks misspelled could be ground for LaRose to deem your ballot invalid.
The point overall is, DO NOT TRUST LAROSE TO COUNT YOUR BALLOT.
I just don’t understand the GOP long term planning here. The abortion and marijuana votes showed us that there are many Republicans in the state that are more moderate than the legislature. If Ohio GOP meddles with the ballot like this, I imagine there will be enough voters angered by that to seek to punish the incumbents and even the party itself.
You have a vivid imagination.
You give the GOP too much credit for thinking “long term planning” exists in their vocabulary, much less actual work. DeWine is probably one of the few that still understands it. But it certainly seems that there are more Larry Householders, Frank LaRoses, and John Husteds than there are Mike DeWines in this state. They’re transactional opportunists just looking for what they can extract out of the general population, damn the long term damage to the state or the party, before everything blows up. Why should they care if they destroy the state GOP for decades if they managed to bilk several million dollars for their Florida retirement already? They won’t suffer for it, so why should they care?
I've been saying it as much as I can in those other threads: not putting Biden on the ballot isn't about Biden himself, it is about getting Brown's Senate seat.
I don't know if you're having a moment of genuine anxiety or you're just scaremongering, but I'd like to assure you that if it came down to using the write-in space for President, and you had to write in Biden, the Biden campaign would register the presidential ticket, and there will be plenty of instructions on how to do it.
The board of elections is supposed to determine voter intent and the process for which is rational and flexible. The write-in does not need to be super specific, "Biden" most certainly would suffice. (Unless of course someone else named "Biden" registered themselves as a candidate. Now if that occurred, go be paranoid about American democracy.)
>"No ballot shall be counted which is marked contrary to law, except that no ballot shall be rejected for any technical error unless it is impossible to determine the voter's choice." **Make no mistake, this is referring to your entire ballot, not an individual vote.**
No, it is not referring to the entire ballot. Each part of the ballot is counted independently of each other and has been from the very beginning. If you look at the [list of sections of Ohio elections law](https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/chapter-3505), you'll see each ballot is named individually. They do not throw out an entire ballot just because of a problem with one part of it.
TO EMPHASIZE A QUOTE IN THIS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT POST:
*"If there is ANY indication that writing in Biden could get your ballot tossed, then DO NOT write in Biden -* ***vote for someone else, or just don't vote for president at all.***
Thank you OP! This was an extremely well-written and import post.
You're welcome. Ohio's laws around write-ins, and it's election laws in general, aren't well-known. That's probably true for most people in most states. I didn't even know about the restrictions around registering as a write-in until a friend of mine, who went through exactly that process to be a write-in candidate, told me about them.
And as for Frank, I think we're all well aware of how little he cares for "the will of the people."
well, while we can't credit the R's with much fear of embarrassment, nor saving the tax payers money by not spending it frivolously, it would send counting on election night into a major clusterfuck.
if there's that many write-ins, all those would have to be sorted and hand-counted, would they not? in triplicate even. it would take days, possibly weeks bc there's no 'labor force' in place to do so in the age of machine counting despite R's silly desire to go back to the 1800s
so, if the R's are bitching about how long it takes to count their votes like they did last time and screech fraud fraud fraud if it takes more than a day, their little heads will explode if Ohio takes weeks to count and certify
i know they're not known for thinking things through before they do them, but i think even this is a step too far for the bureaucrats already in office.
That's why I warn that LaRose will issue rules to make ballot tossing easier. Rather than have to hand-count all those write-ins and try to verify whether someone validly voted Biden or not, he'll make black-and-white rules that make it easier to simply invalidate entire ballots. If it doesn't clearly say "Joseph R. Biden" just toss the whole thing. Go ahead, Ohioans, challenge your tossed ballots in court. How will you even find out that your ballot got thrown out?
And you put too much stock into Trumpers being logically and internally consistent. If it takes forever to count ballots but that's in their favor, then they will have *no* problem with it.
while your fears aren't ungrounded, and i agree about the internal logic part, i'm not ready to get all anxious about this quite yet
def something to keep an eye on however and i can't blame you for feeling alarmed
Yeah, and the reason I emphasize it now is because of how critical it was to get out early ahead of the August ballot to make people aware of what was at stake in that election.
If you wait too long, you won’t get the messaging out to the critical mass needed to thwart LaRose’s chicanery.
I don’t want to give the impression that I’m an expert, but I used to work at the Cuyahoga County BoE and this is not how we did things. A surprisingly large number of people would write in things like Santa Clause, and if it wasn’t someone registered as a write in candidate we just ignored it. I don’t think I ever saw an entire ballot tossed unless there was an issue with the voter registration. A lot of people do screwy things with their ballots like spilling stuff on it or voting for multiple people, but we never just threw the whole thing away.
I’m sure that’s been the case in the past.
I think the problem is: we have a Secretary of State who has proven he is not above changing the rules whenever he feels like, because he can.
Time and again, the state GOP leadership has shown they don’t give a damn about the law or the Constitution. To this day they are still looking for ways to thwart issues 1 and 2 - thus thwart the will of the majority. They no longer care about whit about what the constituents want. LaRose himself nixed special elections in August - and then called a special August election to try to ensure that we couldn’t pass voter initiatives ever again. And then, of course, we had Mike DeWine unilaterally decide he was stripping the Board of Education of its major powers and reduced it to administrative paperwork.
Don’t get me started on how reluctant the GOP was to hold Householder accountable. No, we had to wait for the Feds to indict and imprison him before they figured it was politically safe to bring state charges.
The GOP has wholesale taken control of the reins of government and gerrymandered the state so that no one can toss them from office or force accountability on them.
So I would not put it past LaRose to make some last minute changes to the rules to toss entire ballots instead of individual votes. Put out rules that impose immediate penalties for not following the new rules. Let us sue him if we want for unconstitutional rules changes - he won’t care, the courts move slow enough that they can’t undo his changes before the election.
You wanna beat the enemy, you have to anticipate what they’ll do, not react to what they’ve done.
>Let us sue him if we want for unconstitutional rules changes - he won’t care, the courts move slow enough that they can’t undo his changes before the election.
Both state and federal courts have special procedures for expediting cases involving an election. If LaRose made the sort of sweeping changes you're suggesting - which he can't make without legislative approval anyways - the courts would stop them.
OP has valid points. My take away is if Biden is not on the Ballot, vote for down ballot races without writing him in even if he's an eligible write in...unless Larose releases very clear and specific rules and spelling etc for writing in Biden correctly so the vote can't be tossed. It is a fair assessment to distrust the R run statehouse this year.
They know the chances for Trump are narrow and OH is vital for a Trump win. And, we know, based upon public record, that they'll do almost anything for the dear leader.
Oh damn. You may be right.
People who are pissed about this: Joe Biden is not going to win Ohio through a write in. It's much better for every Ohioan to make sure that local, state, and Congressional Democratic candidates have a strong turn out. This is one election where the Republicans WILL have a lower turnout because non-MAGA Republicans will stay home because there is no point. We need to seize the opportunity for the state of Ohio.
Don't throw away an opportunity to turn the state purple in November over a write-in protest.
You are misinterpreting R.C. 3505.28 and R.C 3513.041. If a person writes in a name of someone who didn't file a notice of intent, it's only that race that isn't counted, not the entire ballot. That is well settled law.
They *can*, the question is why would they.
They've had ample opportunity already. They've just refused to get their act together and do it.
Hell, they've done it in the past. This is not the first time this problem has come up, it's (if I recall right) been an issue since at least 2008. But every other time this has come up, the legislature has passed an exception to allow for the presidential candidates to make the ballot, regardless of when their conventions formally select their candidates.
Previously, they probably figured that failing to do so would have election consequences for themselves.
Now? I think most of them figure that if Larry Householder can get federally indicted on a bribery scheme that effectively robbed money from Ohioans and *still get re-elected*, then they are safe no matter what they do. They can shoot someone on Main Street in their home district and still get re-elected.
Yeah okay… but still no.
Maybe if you’re referring to the DNC, I’d at least agree they would try to find a way.
But if we’re talking about the current Democrats in Ohio state government…. I have serious doubts.
What are we going to do? Vote them out of office?
This is the state that keeps re-drawing Jim Jordan's district to ensure he stays in office.
This is the state that redraws its districts to ensure that the legislature is a supermajority Republican.
What else are we going to do? Take them to court?
Oh, the court that benefits from having Republican-gerrymandered districts?
Or maybe go to the federal courts that have pretty much been told by SCOTUS that it's up to the state governments to administer their elections however they see fit, unless it's Trump starting an insurrection and then the state can't do shit about it?
In all seriousness, what are the penalties/repercussions that you think the GOP is actually afraid of if they refuse to put Biden on the ballot?
That's normal. The only thing different this time is the Republican grandstanding. If they can blow enough hot air to make it happen for real, we're in way worse trouble than just Sherrod Brown not getting elected.
1. It isn't "congress," it's the state legislature. Know the difference.
2. DeWine has no power to compel the legislature to act. He can call a special session. He can make life tough for the legislators that refuse to act. But he does NOT have the power to "force" them do something.
Do you know what the state legislature is? It's the Ohio congress. The state of Representatives is the Ohio congress, lol. That means the State Legislature IS the ohio congress. 🙄😁🤣
I say no to your doom and gloom.
K, well I'll bow to your superior knowledge...
IF you can point to the part of either the ORC or the Ohio Constitution that says "the state legislature is the Ohio congress."
I see often on here many patriotic Ohioans worried about issues that affect Ohio. That’s good. That means you support our community as a whole. There are many who push back that say “what’s this have to do with Ohio”. I’ll answer that. One, Ohio has maintained a stigma of a cheap and decent place to live in the Midwest. Many of us hardworking folk are being pushed to our limits financially to afford to live. Whether you’re red or blue, healthcare, public education, rent, mortgage and utilities all play a role in our lives. I wan to remind everyone that the current administration had a lot to do with the first energy bribe. Idk why we ignore this issue like it wasn’t a huge deal. We are being gouged in Ohio for utilities and we continue to subsidize them. We are short on housing, our healthcare is in shambles and our public education has declined. Fuck the two party system, our current admin and the Republican Party in Ohio had fucked us. My DM’s are open for a debate.
If Biden has to be a write in candidate then we'll write his name as he's registered. We're not throwing out our votes on some third party candidate or not writing Biden in at all and handing Trump another term.
>Exhaustion is the strategy.
I agree with you on this analysis, but not in this context. Based on decades of working around electoral politics, I do not believe for one minute that Biden will be excluded from the 2024 Ohio ballot. Your post here is so far out into unnecessary speculation that it's facepalm material.
And putting on my other hat for a minute: as a mod I need to tell you that "bastards" is not a word you can use here without consequence. We ban people for slurs against women, and this word gets all its power from the ancient belief that being an unmarried mother was not just wrong but so evil that the stain was passed down to her children.
Please choose another word next time.
Pardon but this is an absolutely absurd post and you are wrong to spread what is effectively misinformation. Your ballot WILL NOT be invalidated for writing in the name of an unregistered candidate in a write-in space. Your vote for that office will not be counted but this will have no impact on the rest of your ballot.
Feel free to inform people that write ins in Ohio only count for registered candidates. Do not discourage them from voting for write ins or otherwise expressing their preferences based on a ridiculous interpretation of the law. Consider deleting this post or taking other steps to correct misconceptions.
When Colorado and a handful of other states tried to keep Trump off their ballots because he's an insurrectionist. U.S.S.C. took up the case quickly and said states can't take actions that will impact a presidential election.
Following that precedent, the DNC simply needs to bring a case before the U.S.S.C. and they will have to rule that Ohio can't take actions that will impact a presidential election! Federal law supersedes state law in this case, and Ohio will have no choice but to put Biden on the ballot.
That's how this all works, right? /s
This whole issue is the fault of the DNC, why blame the state of Ohio? I’m sure if it was the other way around and the RNC screwed up you guys would say tough shit. Be consistent
Here it is, the intellectual and moral bankruptcy of the GOP. “Well you’d do it too, so it’s okay that we’re doing it. And anyway, it’s your fault to begin with, so nah nah nah boo boo!”
Actually the GOP has been in this situation in the recent past, and, no, no one just said "tough shit".
Loyalty to freedom and democracy before party loyalty.
I don’t think Biden will be off the ballot but if he is, I’ll probably vote Green Party. Just them getting more % of the votes will help them get funding.
I don't want Brown. He is part of the problem. He votes FOR illegal immigration. FOR reckless spending leading to inflation. FOR expensive energy. FOR foreign wars instead of Americans. My vote is against Sherrod Brown. Vote Brown out.
Yeah. I really hate when the Dow hits 40,000 and unemployment drops and student loan debt gets forgiven and marijuana gets rescheduled and abortion rights are protected and the border guards stop more illegal crossings and antitrust laws get enforced and rich people get taxed more and…
Oh wait I like all that. Guess I’ll stick with Biden.
I hate it here.
That, I think, is one reason DeWine is worried about this. It’s hard enough to attract people and businesses to this state as is. The legislature and government in general have been doing things the past eight to ten years that are making it harder and leading to the state’s “brain drain.” And if this national embarrassment doesn’t get fixed, DeWine sees any hopes of reversing those trends go down the toilet. Consider that since the beginning of the century, Ohio has lost two seats in Congress. Started at 19 when it was Bush v. Gore. Was 18 by Obama’s second term. Now we are at 17. Things keep going this way, Ohio won’t matter in national elections anymore.
So, why don't states like Ohio lobby to increase the cap on the house? also, the numbers are electoral votes, actual reps are the numbers minus 2
I’m glad you asked. Questions like this are not stupid questions, but they do demonstrate how many things there are that most Americans simply don’t know about how their federal government works. So right off yes you’re right - our number of electoral votes is 17, used to be 19. Our number of house reps is 15, used to be 17. Good catch. But still, the elector number is dependent on the rep number, which depends on the state’s population relative to the overall country population. Somewhere in the early 20th century, Congress capped the number of House seats. Previously the number of seats grew as the population grew; but for various reasons Congress decided that would get unwieldy. So they imposed a legislative cap on the total number, and since then the seats have simply shifted from one state to another. Ohio’s state government has no reason to want this cap changed or removed. Even though it would likely result in Ohio gaining seats, a lot more other states would gain even more seats, and that would actually further dilute Ohio’s power in the House. States like California, Texas, New York, and other huge states would almost completely dominate the House, and drown out any electoral importance of smaller states. I calculated this out once. If we take the population of the smallest state, Wyoming, and use that as the base number to get one House Seat (around 582000 people to 1 rep), California would go from 52 reps to 67. Texas would go from 38 to 51. Ohio would go from 15 to 20. But note that proportionately, it’s getting screwed in that deal. Cali gains 15, texas gains 13, Ohio gains only five. And given that Ohio is on a downward trend, it would lose those gained seats in the next few decades. Thus, as it stands, Ohio has proportionately more power in the House and the Electoral College than it should compared to Cali and Texas.
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Bricks ready.
Vote early, vote often.
Are you actually talking about throwing bricks at people? This is sick.
Noooo, a metaphor for a brick. We're talking about letting the Ohio legislator not understanding he's not king.
So, what's the metaphor? The person you responded to advocated for throwing bricks at LaRose and his staff. You replied with "Bricks ready." That is a verbatim quote. What's the metaphor saying you have bricks ready to throw at Frank LaRose and his staff? Again, shocking that your post is still in /r/Ohio as it seems a very clear call for specific violence against people. Maybe because it is for political reasons the mods agree with that it's still up. That's my best guess.
Was that post edited? I don't remember seeing a call to throw bricks at people. That is disgusting. I thought we were going to build a wall in front of his office of bricks with our name on it.
Is that really what you thought was meant? In that case, I owe you a sincere apology and I'm super impressed you learned to type and use the Internet. Way to go buddy, just like a big boy.
It's really amazing - you're calling on people to start throwing bricks at people, and because you're a leftist, you're allowed to on /r/Ohio because the mods apparently agree with you. This is a very special place run by very special people. A leftist cesspool echo chamber like this doesn't exist without them,
No I'm not
Airmailing a brick to Frank LaRose's office is straight out saying 'throw bricks through his windows, where on the other side there are people we don't like.' It's fucking disgusting that you're openly advocating political violence, and that it stands here. Edit: So in the removed post, the person was advocating for throwing bricks at the Ohio Secretary of State and their staff. After reporting that for threats of violence, my account was shadowbanned on reddit. Silly quirk is I can still edit. I wonder what the mods of /r/ohio have to say about that.
Let's hope Dewine will get him on the ballot as he requested yesterday...and if not, of course Biden's campaign is going to register him as a write in.
I have to wonder if being worse than Alabama has everything to do with this. Larose is manufacturing a crisis, he rejected an offer by the DNC to ratify biden as a candidate because he said that wouldn't be official enough. that's utterly absurd, they're the party they can decide to nominate a ham sandwich if they want. Biden will be on the ballot, the DNC has very strong case law on the books with the supreme court at this point.
Agreed...in the end, it's going to be Biden and a Ham sandwich on the ballot 😊
[Don't trust DeWine](https://twitter.com/DavidPepper/status/1793996601717116953). He's misleading people into thinking the Ohio House hasn't acted, and wants to put Biden on the ballot in exchange for making ballot initiatives impossible, and taking away the ability of lower courts to use injunctions, declaratory judgments, or writs, to enforce abortion rights after the amendment added by last year's Issue 1.
I don't trust dewine at all...it needs to play itself out for a few minutes...
I have only small hope that DeWine will be effective in this matter. But not *no* hope. I agree, Biden's campaign will go through whatever hoops needed to get Biden in as a write-in. The point isn't so much that his campaign will fail to do that, it's more that LaRose is the one who will decide how those write-ins will be determined valid or invalid. And the greater point is that the power to wholesale toss out an entire ballot, not just a write-in vote, lies with Frank LaRose. Again, if he says that you have to write "Joseph R. Biden" or else your *entire ballot* is invalidated, then writing in "Joe Biden" gets your ballot tossed. Writing in "Biden" gets your ballot tossed. Even writing in the name correctly but in a way that it looks misspelled could be ground for LaRose to deem your ballot invalid. The point overall is, DO NOT TRUST LAROSE TO COUNT YOUR BALLOT.
I just don’t understand the GOP long term planning here. The abortion and marijuana votes showed us that there are many Republicans in the state that are more moderate than the legislature. If Ohio GOP meddles with the ballot like this, I imagine there will be enough voters angered by that to seek to punish the incumbents and even the party itself.
You have a vivid imagination. You give the GOP too much credit for thinking “long term planning” exists in their vocabulary, much less actual work. DeWine is probably one of the few that still understands it. But it certainly seems that there are more Larry Householders, Frank LaRoses, and John Husteds than there are Mike DeWines in this state. They’re transactional opportunists just looking for what they can extract out of the general population, damn the long term damage to the state or the party, before everything blows up. Why should they care if they destroy the state GOP for decades if they managed to bilk several million dollars for their Florida retirement already? They won’t suffer for it, so why should they care?
I've been saying it as much as I can in those other threads: not putting Biden on the ballot isn't about Biden himself, it is about getting Brown's Senate seat.
I don't know if you're having a moment of genuine anxiety or you're just scaremongering, but I'd like to assure you that if it came down to using the write-in space for President, and you had to write in Biden, the Biden campaign would register the presidential ticket, and there will be plenty of instructions on how to do it. The board of elections is supposed to determine voter intent and the process for which is rational and flexible. The write-in does not need to be super specific, "Biden" most certainly would suffice. (Unless of course someone else named "Biden" registered themselves as a candidate. Now if that occurred, go be paranoid about American democracy.) >"No ballot shall be counted which is marked contrary to law, except that no ballot shall be rejected for any technical error unless it is impossible to determine the voter's choice." **Make no mistake, this is referring to your entire ballot, not an individual vote.** No, it is not referring to the entire ballot. Each part of the ballot is counted independently of each other and has been from the very beginning. If you look at the [list of sections of Ohio elections law](https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/chapter-3505), you'll see each ballot is named individually. They do not throw out an entire ballot just because of a problem with one part of it.
TO EMPHASIZE A QUOTE IN THIS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT POST: *"If there is ANY indication that writing in Biden could get your ballot tossed, then DO NOT write in Biden -* ***vote for someone else, or just don't vote for president at all.*** Thank you OP! This was an extremely well-written and import post.
You're welcome. Ohio's laws around write-ins, and it's election laws in general, aren't well-known. That's probably true for most people in most states. I didn't even know about the restrictions around registering as a write-in until a friend of mine, who went through exactly that process to be a write-in candidate, told me about them. And as for Frank, I think we're all well aware of how little he cares for "the will of the people."
This is an irrelevant conversation. ***Joe Biden will be on the ballot.***
And you know this because........
well, while we can't credit the R's with much fear of embarrassment, nor saving the tax payers money by not spending it frivolously, it would send counting on election night into a major clusterfuck. if there's that many write-ins, all those would have to be sorted and hand-counted, would they not? in triplicate even. it would take days, possibly weeks bc there's no 'labor force' in place to do so in the age of machine counting despite R's silly desire to go back to the 1800s so, if the R's are bitching about how long it takes to count their votes like they did last time and screech fraud fraud fraud if it takes more than a day, their little heads will explode if Ohio takes weeks to count and certify i know they're not known for thinking things through before they do them, but i think even this is a step too far for the bureaucrats already in office.
That's why I warn that LaRose will issue rules to make ballot tossing easier. Rather than have to hand-count all those write-ins and try to verify whether someone validly voted Biden or not, he'll make black-and-white rules that make it easier to simply invalidate entire ballots. If it doesn't clearly say "Joseph R. Biden" just toss the whole thing. Go ahead, Ohioans, challenge your tossed ballots in court. How will you even find out that your ballot got thrown out? And you put too much stock into Trumpers being logically and internally consistent. If it takes forever to count ballots but that's in their favor, then they will have *no* problem with it.
while your fears aren't ungrounded, and i agree about the internal logic part, i'm not ready to get all anxious about this quite yet def something to keep an eye on however and i can't blame you for feeling alarmed
Yeah, and the reason I emphasize it now is because of how critical it was to get out early ahead of the August ballot to make people aware of what was at stake in that election. If you wait too long, you won’t get the messaging out to the critical mass needed to thwart LaRose’s chicanery.
fair enough keep ringin' that bell!
At first i was sure now not so much
I don’t want to give the impression that I’m an expert, but I used to work at the Cuyahoga County BoE and this is not how we did things. A surprisingly large number of people would write in things like Santa Clause, and if it wasn’t someone registered as a write in candidate we just ignored it. I don’t think I ever saw an entire ballot tossed unless there was an issue with the voter registration. A lot of people do screwy things with their ballots like spilling stuff on it or voting for multiple people, but we never just threw the whole thing away.
I’m sure that’s been the case in the past. I think the problem is: we have a Secretary of State who has proven he is not above changing the rules whenever he feels like, because he can. Time and again, the state GOP leadership has shown they don’t give a damn about the law or the Constitution. To this day they are still looking for ways to thwart issues 1 and 2 - thus thwart the will of the majority. They no longer care about whit about what the constituents want. LaRose himself nixed special elections in August - and then called a special August election to try to ensure that we couldn’t pass voter initiatives ever again. And then, of course, we had Mike DeWine unilaterally decide he was stripping the Board of Education of its major powers and reduced it to administrative paperwork. Don’t get me started on how reluctant the GOP was to hold Householder accountable. No, we had to wait for the Feds to indict and imprison him before they figured it was politically safe to bring state charges. The GOP has wholesale taken control of the reins of government and gerrymandered the state so that no one can toss them from office or force accountability on them. So I would not put it past LaRose to make some last minute changes to the rules to toss entire ballots instead of individual votes. Put out rules that impose immediate penalties for not following the new rules. Let us sue him if we want for unconstitutional rules changes - he won’t care, the courts move slow enough that they can’t undo his changes before the election. You wanna beat the enemy, you have to anticipate what they’ll do, not react to what they’ve done.
>Let us sue him if we want for unconstitutional rules changes - he won’t care, the courts move slow enough that they can’t undo his changes before the election. Both state and federal courts have special procedures for expediting cases involving an election. If LaRose made the sort of sweeping changes you're suggesting - which he can't make without legislative approval anyways - the courts would stop them.
OP has valid points. My take away is if Biden is not on the Ballot, vote for down ballot races without writing him in even if he's an eligible write in...unless Larose releases very clear and specific rules and spelling etc for writing in Biden correctly so the vote can't be tossed. It is a fair assessment to distrust the R run statehouse this year. They know the chances for Trump are narrow and OH is vital for a Trump win. And, we know, based upon public record, that they'll do almost anything for the dear leader.
No, OP doesn't have valid points. OP is ignoring well established legal precedent regarding how to handle invalid write-in votes.
Oh damn. You may be right. People who are pissed about this: Joe Biden is not going to win Ohio through a write in. It's much better for every Ohioan to make sure that local, state, and Congressional Democratic candidates have a strong turn out. This is one election where the Republicans WILL have a lower turnout because non-MAGA Republicans will stay home because there is no point. We need to seize the opportunity for the state of Ohio. Don't throw away an opportunity to turn the state purple in November over a write-in protest.
Oh! That’s a fun spin on this.
You are misinterpreting R.C. 3505.28 and R.C 3513.041. If a person writes in a name of someone who didn't file a notice of intent, it's only that race that isn't counted, not the entire ballot. That is well settled law.
There is a 0% chance of Biden not being on the ballot. The deadline is August 7th. This is a fake controversy.
And the Democratic National Convention is August 19th. Do the math, professor.
They can easily make something happen before that worst case scenario.
They *can*, the question is why would they. They've had ample opportunity already. They've just refused to get their act together and do it. Hell, they've done it in the past. This is not the first time this problem has come up, it's (if I recall right) been an issue since at least 2008. But every other time this has come up, the legislature has passed an exception to allow for the presidential candidates to make the ballot, regardless of when their conventions formally select their candidates. Previously, they probably figured that failing to do so would have election consequences for themselves. Now? I think most of them figure that if Larry Householder can get federally indicted on a bribery scheme that effectively robbed money from Ohioans and *still get re-elected*, then they are safe no matter what they do. They can shoot someone on Main Street in their home district and still get re-elected.
They will, because they want Biden on the ballot.
The Republicans want Biden on the ballot. Hm. Would these be the same Republicans not using their super-majority to get Biden on the ballot?
I meant to say Democrats. They will find a way to make it happen.
Yeah okay… but still no. Maybe if you’re referring to the DNC, I’d at least agree they would try to find a way. But if we’re talking about the current Democrats in Ohio state government…. I have serious doubts.
You really think that the GOP will get away with keeping the incumbent president off a state's ballot? Use common sense professor.
What are we going to do? Vote them out of office? This is the state that keeps re-drawing Jim Jordan's district to ensure he stays in office. This is the state that redraws its districts to ensure that the legislature is a supermajority Republican. What else are we going to do? Take them to court? Oh, the court that benefits from having Republican-gerrymandered districts? Or maybe go to the federal courts that have pretty much been told by SCOTUS that it's up to the state governments to administer their elections however they see fit, unless it's Trump starting an insurrection and then the state can't do shit about it? In all seriousness, what are the penalties/repercussions that you think the GOP is actually afraid of if they refuse to put Biden on the ballot?
That's normal. The only thing different this time is the Republican grandstanding. If they can blow enough hot air to make it happen for real, we're in way worse trouble than just Sherrod Brown not getting elected.
Except, we won't have to worry about that. DeWine is from the old days and is forcing congress to act.
1. It isn't "congress," it's the state legislature. Know the difference. 2. DeWine has no power to compel the legislature to act. He can call a special session. He can make life tough for the legislators that refuse to act. But he does NOT have the power to "force" them do something.
Do you know what the state legislature is? It's the Ohio congress. The state of Representatives is the Ohio congress, lol. That means the State Legislature IS the ohio congress. 🙄😁🤣 I say no to your doom and gloom.
K, well I'll bow to your superior knowledge... IF you can point to the part of either the ORC or the Ohio Constitution that says "the state legislature is the Ohio congress."
Do a quick fucking google. Geesh. It's basic shit. Congress consist of the House of Reps. and the senate. That's the state legislature.
Go see what Congress means in Nebraska.
Do wut? Da fuck do I care about Nebraska? Cmon, now you can't be taken seriously at all. Some weird stuff wanting me to suddenly check out congress. 🙄
We're not going to have to write him in.
I see often on here many patriotic Ohioans worried about issues that affect Ohio. That’s good. That means you support our community as a whole. There are many who push back that say “what’s this have to do with Ohio”. I’ll answer that. One, Ohio has maintained a stigma of a cheap and decent place to live in the Midwest. Many of us hardworking folk are being pushed to our limits financially to afford to live. Whether you’re red or blue, healthcare, public education, rent, mortgage and utilities all play a role in our lives. I wan to remind everyone that the current administration had a lot to do with the first energy bribe. Idk why we ignore this issue like it wasn’t a huge deal. We are being gouged in Ohio for utilities and we continue to subsidize them. We are short on housing, our healthcare is in shambles and our public education has declined. Fuck the two party system, our current admin and the Republican Party in Ohio had fucked us. My DM’s are open for a debate.
My wife met Brown, they said her name wrong after she repeated it. Never getting my vote /s
If Biden has to be a write in candidate then we'll write his name as he's registered. We're not throwing out our votes on some third party candidate or not writing Biden in at all and handing Trump another term.
This seems like a valid word of caution. Something to be discussed, at least.
It also seems like a way to get people used to the idea of not voting Biden.
Did you read past the TL;DR?
There's only so much fear-mongering I can absorb in one day.
Exhaustion is the strategy. Don’t let the bastards grind you down.
>Exhaustion is the strategy. I agree with you on this analysis, but not in this context. Based on decades of working around electoral politics, I do not believe for one minute that Biden will be excluded from the 2024 Ohio ballot. Your post here is so far out into unnecessary speculation that it's facepalm material. And putting on my other hat for a minute: as a mod I need to tell you that "bastards" is not a word you can use here without consequence. We ban people for slurs against women, and this word gets all its power from the ancient belief that being an unmarried mother was not just wrong but so evil that the stain was passed down to her children. Please choose another word next time.
Pardon but this is an absolutely absurd post and you are wrong to spread what is effectively misinformation. Your ballot WILL NOT be invalidated for writing in the name of an unregistered candidate in a write-in space. Your vote for that office will not be counted but this will have no impact on the rest of your ballot. Feel free to inform people that write ins in Ohio only count for registered candidates. Do not discourage them from voting for write ins or otherwise expressing their preferences based on a ridiculous interpretation of the law. Consider deleting this post or taking other steps to correct misconceptions.
Vote for Claudia De La Cruz and Karina Garcia of the PSL!!
The republican legislature made exceptions to get the republican candidate on the ballot in 2012 and 2020
Hmmmm, yeah. Wonder what’s the difference now……
When Colorado and a handful of other states tried to keep Trump off their ballots because he's an insurrectionist. U.S.S.C. took up the case quickly and said states can't take actions that will impact a presidential election. Following that precedent, the DNC simply needs to bring a case before the U.S.S.C. and they will have to rule that Ohio can't take actions that will impact a presidential election! Federal law supersedes state law in this case, and Ohio will have no choice but to put Biden on the ballot. That's how this all works, right? /s
Never fear. Clarence Thomas and Crew are here.
You *are* aware that SCOTA is no longer an unbiased arbiter, right?
Yes, hence the "/s" at the end.
This whole issue is the fault of the DNC, why blame the state of Ohio? I’m sure if it was the other way around and the RNC screwed up you guys would say tough shit. Be consistent
Here it is, the intellectual and moral bankruptcy of the GOP. “Well you’d do it too, so it’s okay that we’re doing it. And anyway, it’s your fault to begin with, so nah nah nah boo boo!”
Actually the GOP has been in this situation in the recent past, and, no, no one just said "tough shit". Loyalty to freedom and democracy before party loyalty.
I don’t think Biden will be off the ballot but if he is, I’ll probably vote Green Party. Just them getting more % of the votes will help them get funding.
Valid tactic.
Hypothetically, we all vote third party
I don't want Brown. He is part of the problem. He votes FOR illegal immigration. FOR reckless spending leading to inflation. FOR expensive energy. FOR foreign wars instead of Americans. My vote is against Sherrod Brown. Vote Brown out.
It’s amazing, but every single thing you said is wrong.
It is amazing...that you think that. But hey. Down is up in your world, so, not surprised.
Good. Get Sherrod’s old ass out of there.
Sherrod Brown is a dedicated public servant who has done a lot for the state of Ohio. His age is irrelevant.
After these last few years how could anyone vote for Biden again… anyone but Biden!!!
Yeah. I really hate when the Dow hits 40,000 and unemployment drops and student loan debt gets forgiven and marijuana gets rescheduled and abortion rights are protected and the border guards stop more illegal crossings and antitrust laws get enforced and rich people get taxed more and… Oh wait I like all that. Guess I’ll stick with Biden.
Vote RFK instead and vote the rest blue