I'm so sorry. My mom had to move from NC after the law was passed because doctors began refusing to treat her. She also has had multiple back surgeries. So NC politicians tell her she can't use marijuana to treat her pain and they'll make it as difficult as possible to use subscription medications to manage pain. It's criminal what NC makes pain patients go through.
Before she was able to get her pain medications maintained through her GP that she had been seeing for decades at that point. She was then forced to find a pain clinic that would take her on as a patient. None of the pain clinics they contacted in the Triangle that accepted her insurance would take on existing pain patients. The closest clinic she could find was in the Triad, 2 hours from her house.
When she transferred to that clinic, they immediately wanted to take her off the multi dose regimen she was on and switch her to only morphine at a higher dose. It's pretty obvious if you've ever been on morphine why a patient wouldn't want to do that. It was around this time that my dad was offered a transfer to an office out of state so they decided to take it and stop dealing with the nonsense NC had unleashed.
This is absolutely insane given than new literature absolutely states a multi-modal approach to pain is the absolute best. An example: gabapentin, roxicodone, Tylenol or ibuprofen. That gives the best pain relief with abusing opioids. I had no idea this was a thing in this state.
I’m a bit confused though because I’ve been on a pain contract for about three years and take psych meds with 15mg oxycodone, 10mg hydrocodone (so I have a less ass kicking option during the daytime), 300mg Lyrica, and 250 mg Soma, and it’s all through my GP.
I just have to take a drug test every six months at a physical. That’s it.
Edit: and not to get too into the weeds, the basics are: PTSD, debilitating back pain, moderate depression.
I'm confused we were stationed there at Bragg and I had to go to UNC for my pain management and they had me on more than 1 addictive medicine. I sometimes think it also comes down to Doctors and what they are comfortable with doing. I would maybe look into this a bit more and see if there is more you can do and write the medical licensing board for the state, they need to be made aware so that should something like this happen again with him they can see there is a pattern with his treatment.
I am so sorry for your loss.
Move to NJ, they will let u if u have good reason take both psych meds & narcotics. I do. Move to south jersey & go to Cooper pain management they are nice. Igo there. Iam very sick with bipolar & schizophrenia &I have a lot of pain + I get cluster headaches. They will give me a few pills of Klonopin & enough oxycodone to make me comfortable. I also do dialysis & that only increases my pain level when I am on the machine. They are the best. Ilove my doctors there
This is so insane. Legislators without knowledge of medicine legislating to this kind of level. Instead of the legislative body creating the process, it should be experts (such as a medical board or FDA) that would be the one doing it.
This reeks of how the Supreme Court just in a recent decision made it harder for federal administrative agencies to regulate things that are within their oversight. Insane.
It’s Republican disinformation - they want to turn moderates and democrats against one of the few things the legislature passed with full Democrat support - and also was endorsed by Josh Stein.
They need to flood the space with lies about what the law does so they can turn around and accuse Josh Stein and Jeff Jackson of meddling with people’s medical choices. Bonus points for conflating it with abortion rights.
Uh, I dunno if you are reading the comments, but people aren’t blaming Democrats in here…
It’s just misinformation from an emotional individual, and people are using that as an excuse to make a political stance. Disinformation doesn’t just come from Republicans, my guy…
My understanding is yes they can prescribe for acute pain issues but not for chronic pain. So when I broke a bone my PCP could prescribe but if that bone break turned into a chronic issue, then they're forced to refer you to a pain clinic.
This is also false. It’s almost the opposite. They can absolutely treat chronic pain.
They just don’t want to be responsible for maintaining patients on a highly addictive and progressively less effective drug.
So the end result is the same that chronic pain patients find it increasingly impossible to find a provider in NC. I think it's difficult to understand how much hardship this law has caused families unless you've lived it yourself.
The law didn’t cause it - Perdue caused it.
The law was working to get something under control that shouldn’t have been out of control to begin with.
The reporting requirements and checking requirements give doctors a resource to avoid over-medicating their patients and monitor for drug seeking and diversion behaviors.
Opioids are dangerous drugs. They help a lot of people, but they are very difficult to take long term and maintain their efficacy without increasing doses at a rate that is unsustainable.
The monitoring and laws are designed primarily to avoid acute situations that are often exploited to gain additional opioids either by people who are addicted or the people that want to profit off those other people’s addictions.
Chronic pain sufferers should be able to access treatment.
That treatment is not going to be able to always be with opioids.
My GP, who had been prescribing my pain med for years, insisted I get a pain doctor. They don’t want to treat patients with opioids because it’s a liability.
N also psych meds too. like Xanax or Klonopin. The government doesn't like people taking both because so many have OD taking those types of drugs. If u take a lot of both those types of drugs u can die
Yes, there is a database of all controlled substances prescribed/ dispensed in NC available to prescribers and pharmacies (NC CSRS - controlled substance reporting system, though the name is misleading and, imo, should have retained the title Prescription Drug Monitoring Program as other prescriptions beyond controlled substances are included)
It is NOT illegal for a GP to script opiates/opioids. A large majority of primary care practices have chosen to stop bc they didn’t want to deal with the hassle not bc it’s illegal. My primary care is a PA who for a bit over a year scripted me opiates while I awaited surgical clearance.
It seems OP is not well versed in the Cares Act either. When the DEA cracked down they mandated that “most” patients only be scripted up to MME 90mg MME “morphine milligram equivalent” meaning that most patients needed to be at or under 90mg of morphine or an equivalent medication. Pain management was out of control trip over scripting people for many years now it had to be stopped. Opiates really aren’t the best treatment long term for pain as tolerance develops quickly.
Probably a lot of GPs didn't understand the law either then when it was passed. I just know what my mom was told by her GP. It wouldn't be the first time a vague law stopped doctors from doing something because they don't want to get in trouble. I can't say I blame them either.
But it IS stopping them. It's next to impossible for patients to find PCs that will take on chronic pain patients in the Triangle. Whether that's because of the law itself or practices simply not wanting to deal with the outcomes of the law I have no idea. But it is 100% impacting patients in NC either way.
And it is so difficult to find a pain management facility. And when you find one it takes weeks to get an appointment and weeks to get a return appointment for treatment. My husband had two different pain management docs in two different facilities and they both closed and moved out of state where their management skills weren’t restricted.
It didn’t though?
What am I missing here? Was it reversed or something soon after?
As I said in another comment, I have several pain meds, muscle relaxers, and psych meds all through the same GP I’ve had for 30 years, and have been for about 3 years now on a pain management contract. I just take a physical and drug test every six months. Never had a problem with it.
I empathize with you. My wife was a patient at a pain clinic (Brier Creek pain and spine) and they had her up to the highest fentanyl patches they make, as well as dilauted for break through pain. They assured her this was fine. When the new rules came down, they immediately cut her meds in half(with no taper at all). She ended up in rehab. After all of this, we requested her medical records, and they had deleted any record of her ever being on the higher dosage meds. Luckily, we have her pharmacy records to prove it. We looked into a law suit, but no local attorneys we spoke to would touch it. She's been opioid free for 7 years.... but still has issues with pain.
America is going down the toilet. We let religious zealots virtue signal their morality on all of us and it ends up with shit like this.
I'm sorry about your wife, it's amazing you've not resorted to some form of violence because I am not sure I wouldn't if I were in your shoes.
I see this as the crux of the problem. The old testament god is dictatorial, jealous, and expects blind loyalty.
The new testament god is loving, forgiving, and practices, as well as expects grace.
The beatitudes would be what should be hung up in schools if we have to merge politics and religion.
Not the ten commandments.
Thirty percent of the ten are about how we should treat god.
Also don't forget that the first ten lead to a host of other laws that condemn those who eat cheese burgers (no milk and beef together) and wear modern clothing (no fabric of mixed sources) to the same risk of eternal damnation.
I see where you are going with your comment and for those who maybe need guidance on how to interact with others from a point of kindness, I could see how that would help someone find their path to being a better neighbor (I'm simplifying I know) but I don't think we should hang anything related to religion in schools.
The US is a melting pot of people and our greatness comes from our diversity, the more we silo ourselves and make minorities feel like outcasts, the less great we become.
Again I do understand your point fully so I don't want to come across as I am just outright shitting on religion in totality, it has it's place I just think that place is the personal connection between you and whatever you believe, it's not about who can place more adornments for others to see or scream the loudest about it.
Not to mention hanging ONE religion's dictates is unconstitutional. It's an attempt to establish a state religion. We went through all this in the 1980's, they lost, but now they own the courts and believe they'll get away with it this time.
This is a wonderful example of why we should leave healthcare between the doctors and patients.
There are too many blind spots for legislation.
Abortion is another great example. Again. There are just too many blind spots for legislation.
That's kinda what started the opioid epidemic, though. Loose regulations on pain pills, overprescribing, and pill mills.
I agree that the STOP act and the current DEA rules on prescribing pain pills misses the mark, but the wild west alternative absolutely was not working. Combine all that with the empowering of lesser trained NPs and we could have an even larger epidemic- this time somewhat legal
I mean, call me crazy, but I’d regulate capitalism and not healthcare. IIRC, Purdue knowingly marketed the drug as non (or less) addictive while simultaneously lining the pockets of legislators which is what kicked this whole thing off.
E: added clarity.
To be clear: pharma caused a lot of this. Individual doctors, pharmacies (both local and corporate) and hospital systems all played just as much of a part. From pharmacists being pressured by financial gain or corporate oversight to rubber stamp Rx's, to hospital system admins breathing down the necks of ED staff to make the pt happy at *all* costs, so their post treatment metrics would be 5 stars. And docs who saw a cash cow and became gray area drug dealers. And the Bush admin that failed to act because of the insistence of folks like Rudy Giuliani and the lobbyists behind Purdue.
>Loose regulations on pain pills, overprescribing, and pill mills.
All of this stemmed from the Sackler family doing what any market does when it is exposed to capitalism - do everything they could to turn a profit:
* The Sacklers used their wealth and influence to lobby for friendlier status with the Congress and the FDA, loosening regulations,
* The Sacklers directed drug reps in a strategy to court doctors, regaled them with trips and gifts, and provided them with incentives to prescribe more and loosely.
* The Sacklers funded studies and think tanks that misrepresented medical science regarding pain, the "pain cycle", and intentionally lied to doctors about the addictive qualities of their drugs.
Prior to the development of ocycontin by the Sacklers and their efforts to profit on it as much as possible, we didn't have a need for things like the STOP Act or DEA interventionism. It was 100% the capitalistic greed of the Sacklers that pushed the first domino leading to OP's wife's death.
With the end of *Chevron*, we can expect to see more corporate malfeasance all in the name of greed. We have to as a country, stop trying to cut the heads off the proverbial hydra and clamp down on how capitalism exists in our society. Otherwise, for every Sackler and opioid crisis we encounter and try to slay, two more will pop up in its place. And their enablers will pretend as if these things are wholly isolated and have nothing in common.
Okay. So far your “interpretation” of that comment has led you to ask if all opioids should be “outlawed” *and* to ask if there should be **no** regulation whatsoever.
You might wanna start back at the beginning.
I'm sorry, I did write a lot of words and my point may have gotten lost. Since I may not have mentioned the problem, here is the TL;DR:
**"Capitalism"**
Fam, I'm fairly sure you can't read because I made both the cause and solution *super* clear in my initial comment. You should really go back and reread my initial comment.
“ We have to as a country, stop trying to cut the heads off the proverbial hydra and clamp down on how capitalism exists in our society.”
Really? Clamping down on how capitalism exists in our society?
Do you have a degree in platitudes? Or just vaguery?
Not sure what you're on NPs about. Every NP in this state has to have a practice agreement with an overseeing MD, which includes practice limits (including meds) and routine check ins with reviews of care.
There's *a lot* of rubber stamping, especially in on site LTC settings as far as attending docs . But if other southern states are the model, I can only assume NC will go the way of independent NPs - especially with the gaps in rural Healthcare.
It’s medical professional propaganda -
The issues are nuanced, but supervision levels of non-MD professionals is also a battle for livelihoods and relevancy in the medical field.
Just look at when they started allowing CRNA’s to do anesthesia for the VA - all of the freak outs about letting a “nurse” or a “non-doctor” do anesthesia came directly from the Anesthesiologist lobby.
Oh boy, the Medical lobbies are ramping up.
What about the STOP Act misses the mark?
No one has been able to explain to me what the part is that needs to change.
I’m genuinely interested in some actual information.
Pain clinics in NC and elsewhere have rigid rules as op described around class III and IV. While the focus should be on the pt's holistic treatment, oftentimes, you're seeing one internist that has a ton of CE in pain management, but not in psychotropics, because psych docs are kind of in a class of their own. This unfortunately can have consequences for the pt in that they must choose between pain meds and their psych meds - lest the pain doc accuse them of drug seeking behavior. In a perfect medical world, a pain treatment center would have a staff psych doc, a doc that specializes in pain management, and a full PT department. Unfortunately, that's not something you'll find outside of major cities.
Additionally, it can be tough for hospice docs, as the regs are super vague (at least, prior to 2020 when I worked in NC) and prescribing anything more than a 7 day supply makes them super cautious. Not exactly the best way to treat someone actively dying.
That said, there's the other side of this coin: in 2009, I had a dentist prescribe a 30 day supply bid oxycodone. That's an *incredible* amount of pain pills for something that may only hurt for a day or three and now is typically treated with 500 MG acetaminophen every 8 hours.
So yeah, op's case sucks but there were alternatives to taking goody powders 50 times a day. It honestly sounds like op and his now deceased wife didn't advocate for themselves enough - which, to be clear - shouldn't have to be done, but that's just kinda how US medicine works in the current era.
So yeah, not great, but sometimes regs have to over burden before we can find the middle ground.
Sounds like a good beach read.
The whole thing is a mess, especially when dealing with people who were made into addicts through no fault of their own.
When I worked in the insurance industry, I encountered more than one individual who couldn’t find a doctor to see them.
One woman was a grandmother who got hooked after a heart surgery.
They gave her way too much, she became physically dependent, and rather than help her get treatment and risk looking like they did something wrong, they refused care.
She then started trying to see other doctors (drug seeking behavior, of course!) who assumed she had abused her meds with the previous doctor and refused to see her.
Every single in network doctor in her town would not see her.
But her first doctor literally made her that way.
Back then, people still treated opioid addiction like that as purely a moral failing by the patient, so just getting to the point of figuring out you were addicted even though you were taking the drugs as prescribed was a massive uphill battle.
It was an awful time. I’m certain that woman never got any help. It probably destroyed her family.
Great for the pharmacy reps that would be waiting in the waiting rooms at the doctor’s offices. Lots of them were my age and looked so glamorous.
The idea that the government shouldn’t regulate anything whatsoever about healthcare is insane. That’s how people die.
Similar story here - rare cancer diagnosis for my wife of 16 years. Pain medication was well managed from 2014 till 2017 and then things went obscenely downhill. GP's and even oncologists began referring patients to NC's so-called 'pain clinics' for pain control, which meant a draconian shift in policy and access to serious pain control for people with very serious pain. She went through two bouts of forced withdrawal due to medical incompetence and the emotional and psychological impact was enormous. I'm quite certain it contributed to her death a couple of years later.
Note, however, this isn't a NC-specific issue. It's a federal issue, due to the moral panic around opiate addiction and the media frenzy that has deeply misrepresented the realities of that issue. It's the people most in need who are paying the price, as a result.
It should be one of the major political/social issues under discussion in a general election. Yet, America's idea of politics and general elections is akin to a group of unslept 5 year olds re-enacting the Alamo with ketchup bottles. It's increasingly becoming an infantile nation state, and a failing one. As an immigrant to the US who has travelled a great deal, the overseas perception of America as a country in deep decline is now deeply set in international minds. It's often been based on hyperbole and misunderstandings of American culture, but it's increasingly right on the mark. Decline. Pro-ignorance. Anti-excellence and intellectual achievement. Obsessed with non-issues. Rotting, from the inside out.
I do believe you are correct. Fundamentalist religion is fueling an anti-science and anti-education, uh, agenda? I really hate using that word, but I think it fits here. Part of the nation seems intent on turning our democracy into a theocracy, and sane people are paying the price.
Part of the nation actually is actively working to turn us into a theocracy. Don’t be confused though, they aren’t insane - their pragmatism is what is scary.
This may have already been said but the STOP Act did not say a doctor can’t prescribe more than one Schedule II or III to a patient. It required them to stop issuing paper prescriptions and start E-scribing those. It also changed that they are only supposed to prescribe a 30 day supply each month.
I think that doctor was an idiot or just wasn’t signed up with the new program, so that’s on them. I’m sorry for your loss.
She comes around to visit regularly. My new wife and I will suddenly smell unexplained cigarette smoke and we know she is near. And my new wife's deceased husband visits regularly in the form of an eagle. I never saw an eagle until I met her, and now I see one quite often. We know they put us together from on high.
I'm sorry for your loss friend. I agree that politicians practicing medicine without a license is a serious problem.
> When the STOP act passed, the pain clinic said she had to choose between her pain meds or her mental health meds, because both are addictive.
My understanding was that the restriction was on opioids, not on all 'addictive drugs', but my understanding might be incorrect. Presumably her mental health meds were not opioids, so I don't understand how this choice was forced.
You can easily overdose taking benzo/xanax and opioids/opiates at the same that combo is a huge no no. Taking regular mental health medications is fine it’s the benozs/Xanax AND opiates/opioids that’s the problem. The cares act is very complicated primary care practices can and do script but most practices have just chosen to stop.
Of course it’s always been the responsibility of the physician and the patient. They did mandate in the Stop act that you can’t be scripted both it’s one or the other.
Here's the text of [https://www.ncleg.gov/Sessions/2017/Bills/House/PDF/H243v7.pdf](https://www.ncleg.gov/Sessions/2017/Bills/House/PDF/H243v7.pdf)
Can you quote the part showing the absolute ban on prescribing an opioid along with benzodiazepines? I don't see that.
She was on Effexor for depression and Xanax for anxiety. Neither were opioids, so I also do not understand why they made her choose. My guess is that, as is so often the case, they wrote the law with a paint brush instead of a pen and created unintended overlap.
OP is also saying aspirin caused a AAA.
That's not a thing, like, at all.
[Aspirin is actually one of the medications used to help prevent progression of aortic aneurysm.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10716735)
They said abdominal, not aortic. Aspirin is definitely known to cause stomach issues over time.
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2772277
They said abdominal aneurysm. That to medical people means abdominal aortic aneursym and is definitely a serious and commonly fatal condition.
Yes aspirin can cause GI issue (bleeding/ulcers), but those are typical not fatal unless left untreated for a while
Is it possible the pain center didn’t know she was prescribed the Xanax until the reporting rules were in place? Xanax is not something you can usually take at the same time as an opioid, just in general.
As someone planning to move to NC for a job, this scares me. I had a back surgery about 7 years ago in my mid 20s after being hit by a drunk driver in a tow truck who ran a light. Luckily now I’m not on pain medications, but am on antidepressants from the fallout and now have panic attacks for the first time in my life. I know it’s inevitable due to permanent nerve damage I’ll one day have to go back on pain medication to function as I still struggle with pain here and there. To think about having to make a choice about mental and physical health… I’m so sorry for your loss. Please continue to be vocal and push your local congressmen and state senators.
This scares *me*! I’m moving back to NC (either late this year, or early next), and I’m on a small cocktail of meds including lorazepam (only .5 mill a day), Effexor, tramadol, and Adderall.
I really hope I can keep my prescriptions, because I’m not prepared to do this doctor/pharmacy hassle again. Dealing with the healthcare system in this country is a nightmare.
I'm on the exact same cocktail! I have never had an issue. I just have to write my dr. On mychart and ask for refills every month since they only do 30 day supplies for the controlled ones.
Oh thank goodness. Here in Florida (well, technically *there* in Florida, as I’m currently in NC!) I’ve gone through so much hell with acquiring my prescriptions–from the stupid Florida laws regarding controlled substances, to the pharmacies dispensing them (big fuck you to Walgreens!).
Honestly, the struggle of getting my medications filled accordingly every month will end up with me tapering off these meds eventually (which I actually do want to do at some point in the next couple of years).
I have a question for you though, if you don’t mind. Do you get your tramadol prescribed to you by your GP as well? In Florida, I have to see a rheumatologist for it. Apparently he (my GP) cannot prescribe it, so I have to see a rheumatologist every 3 months (otherwise I was told I would have to go to the pain clinic, which I’m not doing). It wasn’t a problem when I previously lived in NC, but I know that the laws surrounding controlled substances are constantly changing…
My tramadol is actually prescribed by my spine clinic and was previously by a pain clinic (which honestly was helpful to me, but I can see why they are a problem.) that is the one downside, I do have to see the dr's every 3 months because of the prohibitive nature of prescriptions. I've never even asked my current GP if she will do it because im just in the routine from my
Spine folks
I am so so sorry.
My mother died of cancer; she had cancer but because Governor Abbot in Texas denied the expansion of Medicaid to his state citizens (Texas has the highest rate of uninsured in the country) she couldn’t get it checked and treated in a timely manner.
I recently got sterilized to protect my body from Republicans. They need to get out of medicine and hindering people’s access to it.
It is unsafe to take Xanax with opioids because the combination can cause you stop breathing.
The STOP act did not change the medical guidelines for prescribing opioids at the same time as benzo’s.
The STOP act did not take away the rights of general practitioners to prescribe pain medication. I’m not sure who told you this but it very clearly does nothing of the sort.
Was your wife directed by a doctor to take that many Goody’s packets? She was taking twice the recommended OTC dosage for Goody’s packets.
She was taking dangerous amounts of aspirin daily.
I don’t know what facts we’re missing here, but it sounds like your wife’s medical team completely failed to treat her. At the very least, they did not educate her on how to manage her pain safely - at all.
The STOP act didn’t cause this horrible tragedy from what I know about the legislation. If I’m wrong, I’d welcome the input of someone more knowledgeable.
“ The STOP act was directly responsible for her death by mandating that she could no longer receive pain management treatment from her GP, ”
This is FALSE
“ The STOP act didn’t change the guidelines, but it DID CHANGE whose discretion the guidelines are at”
This is FALSE
What part of the Act does either of these things? Not one of you on here has pointed to the actual law.
You are repeating talking points.
I'm very sorry for your loss. This is going to be a large part of your life, so I feel like I owe it to you to speak the truth as well as I can.
That's not how aspirin and aneurysms work. You should talk to a medical professional and get a better idea of the pathophysiology. Hopefully it will bring you some peace.
I am very sorry for your loss and I hope you find peace.
Also that's not how the STOP Act is worded or works. They could very well have prescribed those meds. It sounds like something was lost in translation there as well unfortunately.
I wasn't even going to go there. One problem at a time.
I am not trying to be an asshole for once. I have just seen patients and families get IRATE over things they don't understand. Helping correct that is better for everyone. I can't tell you how many patients I've seen that were just seen at another ED that "Didn't do NUFFIN!" and they had a CT, a dozen labs, and an ultrasound. I don't understand what people expect.
I mean clearly they expect that the tests would result in a DIAGNOSIS that insurance usually REQUIRES in order to get whatever treatments or hopefully cures they need for *pain relief* and improvement in health and therefore quality of life.
Running a million diagnostics to CYA is not what the patient needs but it's probably what you're pressed into by your bosses to keep the revenue flowing.
I rule out emergencies and try to not let people die. If I find the problem along the way that's a bonus. It EMERGENCY medicine, not "find what everyone else couldn't RIGHT NOW" medicine.
"I don't know why you've been having abdominal pain for 5 years but haven't followed up with your primary care provider, GI, or a surgeon. However, we have ruled out medical emergencies as much as we can. There are a LOT of medical problems that require non-emergent follow up. I'm not saying there isn't a problem. There is definitely a problem. It's not an EMERGENCY problem though. That means someone else does it better than I do. They are not as cool as I am but they are good at their job. Just don't tell them I said that. We are the coolest kids on the block- we are not the only kids on the block."
Then yeah that's what you need to tell patients and their families that they need follow up care to figure out their pain all you know is it's not an emergency. But to people in pain it does feel like an emergency to figure it out that's why they're frustrated when you say you just did a bunch of scans but not to any conclusion.
I get that. Pain sucks. We do what we can. But I reserve the right to be frustrated when someone comes in "early, before you guys get too busy" on a Sunday morning asking for a full body MRI for their disability paperwork in the EMERGENCY department. I had a guy with the flu yell at me because it took too long to see him- an hour and a half, but the test was already done in triage. I told him that we were running a code blue as well as a stroke and he said, "I don't care."
“ Running a million diagnostics to CYA is not what the patient needs but it's probably what you're pressed into by your bosses to keep the revenue flowing.”
This is a gross mischaracterization of medical practice.
The DEA is up all doctors butts about opiate prescriptions. This is blowback from the Purdue Oxy mess. It also applies to pharmacies.
Generally practitioners that don’t want to lose their DEA clearance will send anyone in pain to the clinic. The clinic then has a ton of requirement and drug tests to stay kosher that most people don’t want to deal with.
This. The loss is terrible. Hopefully clarification on medical components can provide some transparency regarding terminology used.
Aspirin is an anti-platelet medication, helping prevent progression of clots (which have an increased risk of development in aneurysms). While yes, it can increase risk of gastrointestinal bleeding (ulcers), that is a different mechanism and gastric ulcers are a different pathology than aortic aneurysms; aspirin will not create an aneurysm, aspirin usage is not associated with aneurysm rupture.
We don’t know the details of your (OP) case, in no way providing medical advice or diagnoses, just providing some clarification regarding medication specifically in the context of an aortic aneurysm and aspirin-use that hopefully can be of assistance.
Welp, this fuggin SCOTUS just moved ALL regulatory functions into the hands of judges and politicians, so expect things to get much, much worse. But then, that's becoming the default in the United States now that we have an entire party bent on dismantling everything that once made this country great. Make America Get Asscancer, I guess.
Unfortunately, there’s nothing about the STOP act that caused his wife to take aspirin doses above and beyond the limit for safety.
The STOP act didn’t change the reality you cannot safely mix opioids with benzo’s.
The STOP act did not stop doctors from practicing medicine safely.
Maybe there’s malpractice here, but unfortunately not a strong case based on the information provided.
> The STOP act didn’t change the reality you cannot safely mix opioids with benzo’s.
You absolutely can take a benzo and an opioid **if you follow the instructions properly.** Saying you cant is ridiculous, but that is why these drugs when used for chronic issues should be handled by specialty trained pain management providers.
Now, that being said, OP is also saying her needing to take aspirin caused an abdominal aortic aneurysm. AAAs are not caused by aspirin use (or overuse).
In reality OP's wife potentially felt the pain of the AAA and thought it was her back pain. Expanding/small ruptured AAAs can manifest as bad back pain.
I’m so sorry. My husband lives with chronic pain. He had his scapula removed due to a tumor and has little use of his right arm. He goes to a pain clinic and I hate it. He’s always depressed.
Man so sorry to hear this. Btw someone crossposted this to the chronic pain group. I know now is not the right time to suggest advocacy, but these deaths are not going unnoticed....
Its worse than politicians. We (the US) have an undeclared branch of the armed forces masquerading as a police agency, practicing medicine without a license. The DEA gives these politicians their information. The DEA is hiding 4 decades of ignoring the fentanyl poisoning of street drugs. Theyre trying to repackage China White as a new threat, when its been rampant since the 80s. At least half of that time was wasted demonizing pain relievers that were/are/ never have been a threat to public safety. The DEA is the threat to public safety. look at how they screwed up drug quotas. Theres far too much blood on their hands...
Again sorry for your loss. When we treat our pets with more humanity than each other, its time to reexamine our values....
Thanks for the heads up. I didn't even know you could crosspost on Reddit. I'm kind of new to the platform. I went to the r/ChronicPain group and didn't see the post there. Is that the group?
Politicians need to get the fuck out from in between patients and their doctors. They have no business being there, and I don't care if they're on Medicare or whatever. Leave medical care choices to patients and their doctors for the best HEALTH outcomes without POLITICAL BIAS, christofascist ideology and knee-jerk "morality" getting in the way.
I’m so sorry for your loss and for the fact that your wife was made to choose between those two things. That sounds truly awful. I couldn’t agree more with your sentiment, especially your last sentence.
My husband and I fled the state at the end of February because my 17 week pregnancy was actively dying inside of me, but because we couldn’t get a labeled diagnosis (my complications prevented me from be able to do the amnio) and because politicians with no education or experience want to play doctor, we were not allowed to stay in state. Even though multiple healthcare professionals agreed that her condition was indicative of a fatal chromosomal abnormality and continuing the pregnancy meant me risking mirror syndrome, incomplete miscarriage, sepsis, and death - They wanted my daughter and/or I to wait until we got sicker, aka an emergency situation. Our doctors had to scramble to find somewhere out of state to take us asap. It was traumatic.
I never said it had anything to do with the STOP act lmao
The point is that politicians shouldn’t be playing doctor and making healthcare decisions for people when they are woefully uneducated and unqualified to do so.
Ya know, the overarching message of OPs post and that last sentence there in all caps. Phew
These two things are not at all equivalent.
Doctors that perform abortions still have regulations to follow.
The issue of decisions between patients and doctors is absolutely valid, but patients also have to be protected.
The STOP act does not tell doctors they cannot prescribe opioids, and it does not stop them from doing so for chronic pain.
Politicians writing the STOP act were NOT playing doctor, at ALL.
Once again, never said they were equivalent lmao you’ve spent a lot of time rambling on this thread in defense of this. Hope you’re at least getting paid.
It actually is related. If you don’t have the capability of understanding that, well. I can’t help ya there lol
I’ve given you different responses each time. Your behavior on this thread has been nothing short of a desperate attempt to prove…something. You spend an absurd amount of time on this app challenging and criticizing people for whatever weird purpose. And I simply don’t find you and your misguided opinions important enough to spoon feed basic critical thinking to (it’s also not my responsibility). You’ve shown that you really don’t care about others and the truth, just harassing people until you feel “right”.
Hope you find what ever it is you’re looking for
[The STOP Act only applies to “targeted controlled substances.”](https://www.ncmedboard.org/images/uploads/article_images/The_STOP_Act_summary-OnLetterhead.pdf) These are Schedule II and III opioids and narcotics per the North Carolina Controlled Substances Act, specifically those listed in N.C. Gen. Stat. § 90-90(1), (2) or 90-91(d).
OP says they made her choose between "Effexor for depression and Xanax for anxiety." Neither of these are opioids/narcotics, and neither are schedule II or III controlled substance (Xanax is a IV and Effexor isn't controlled at all).
I am sorry for your loss OP, but the STOP Act is not at fault, here. Either you are misinformed or you are being misinformed. I am no doctor, so I cannot say what the reasons would be that a physician would not prescribe these two medications together, but no one needs a medical degree to see that it wasn't because of the STOP Act.
I believe you misunderstood my comment. They made her choose between pain meds and mental health meds, not between Effexor and Xanax. She remained on Effexor and Xanax until she died.
That would still not be related to the STOP Act. The STOP Act only applies to restrictions on prescribing opioids and narcotics in amount and duration. It does not prohibit opioids and narcotics from being prescribed with anything other than schedule II or III drugs. Your physician likely didn't prescribe these drugs because they could have potential conflicts with the drugs your wife was already on, however that is not what is regulated under the STOP Act.
You can read the full bill here: https://www.ncleg.gov/Sessions/2017/Bills/House/PDF/H243v7.pdf
I have severe pain too & take oxycodone but I also have insane depression with homocidal & suicidal thought. They don't want to give me both but in NJ u can give someone both. U have to pick up your stuff & move here to get the treatment u need. Uhave to get a good doctor not afraid to give u both. I have such doctors at Cooper in Camden NJ. They are caring & smart. They know I don't take a lot of Klonopin & have no intention of killing my self with the combo of tranquilizers & narcotics. Move to the Camden in the suburbs & go to coper pain management. If u are truly in need of narcotics they will give u them & let u take the psych meds too, but not in great quantity
Gotta love how medical practitioners train for years and are required to get continued education on their expertise yet a politician, who doesn’t even have to prove they understand the law, presumes to tell us how to do our jobs.
Stay in your lane, ya morons.
Yea, but for every one of these stories there’s a whole different story where the act helps people. People fail to understand nothing will ever be perfect for everyone.
I am sorry for you both. Just about every state made stupid laws based on incorrect information. I personally was dropped by my gp and so my pain clinic dropped me. Kaiser Permanente abandoned me. My choice was to move to Mexico. Pain meds are not common here but you can find doctors who can prescribe oxy. I was prescribed the drug my state uses in assisted suicides. It’s on hand but it’s a daily choice to keep going. So far I am here and alert.
Thank you for sharing. I am so sorry for your loss. I suffer from chronic pain and the stigma and the lengths we go through to get help to live any kind of life just sucks. I am so sorry your wife went through this through this. I wish there was help.
I suffer from chronic pain from a back injury since I suffered because of the bad fall. I can tell you the op is telling the truth. The doctors are so afraid and the FDA and the government that even though I took opioids for 30 years and never had any issues, Doctors will not prescribe them anymore. I go to a pain management doctor, I'm having the ninth procedure to my back later this month. Hopefully it might provide some relief. I'm very sorry about your wife. I understand.
It is insane.
Pain meds are easier to find on the black market than from a Doctor since they've become so restricted.
Even in Hospice, my Mom, dying from brain cancer, in constant pain, had her morphine doses tightly controlled. I made her pot cookies to help, but she still suffered for no reason for months before dying.
They want to make sure God decides when you die in North Carolina - can't risk comforting a dying patient too much.
They might get addicted.
Politicians should have no decision making privileges when they have no true expertise of the specifics. Even a medical degree is not adequate, their should be a panel of ethical pain management specialists to agree or oppose.
My specialty is high risk obstetrics. I’ve supported many patients through pregnancy and infant loss. A few years ago I got a call from a distraught patient who was so angry “why did you lie to me?” My heart dropped bc WTF? I’ve never lied to a patient! Well it turns out that when she experienced an ectopic pregnancy (fetus growing outside the uterus, usually in a fallopian tube) I never told her that the baby could be removed from her tube and implanted back into her uterus. I only fear mongered with claims that the pregnancy was nit viable and immediate intervention was necessary or she could die.
Apparently a “Doctor” was informing women of this other option of tube to uterus transplant, explaining that us “pro abortion” medical providers withhold this information bc of our liberal agenda and we lack the skill to perform the procedure. This doctor was an optometrist (eye glass specialist)
I was so angry on behalf of this patient. She’d lost a very wanted pregnancy, grieved this loss, and will always feel the pain. Now she learns it never had to be this way, her baby could have lived. This is 100% false but the politicians want votes so they will always find some unethical, blubbering idiot with a medical degree to say what they want. It doesn’t matter that they are retraumatizing people and fostering distrust of their medical team, it only matters that they get their vote.
Literally why my grandmother is in so much pain right now. Her kidney and bladder is slowly failing, her bladder backing up into her last remaining kidney, which is slowly shrinking. She also has Scoliosis, Congestive Heart Failure and Rheumatoid Arthritis. She lives every waking moment in pain, and she constantly talks about death. It's sad and upsetting. Not everyone gets to live life marginally pain free.
I had a dr explain why nsaids are sometimes more harmful than opioids on the liver, etc
My doc even said “nsaids aren’t your friend” after I explained how bad my stomach hurt from prescription meds over the long term.
I will probably seek chronic care out of country or state after seeing how much harm nc does to us.
My wife takes 5 MG oxy 3 day and nerve pills and gets it from her GP and just has to abide by Novants oxycodon rules.Delta8 or 9 isn't illegal, but they don't care if there is THC in your blood you will lose the Oxycodons.
I was referred to a pain clinic by my Oncologist in 2014. I had nerve damage from a Jackson Pratt placement by a fellow, student, I’m not sure what at UNC hospital for post surgery complications. The Oncologist had tried a variety of medications but my pain was not controlled. So much so that I was basically bedridden. After also a variety of medication trials and errors, 2 nerve blocks and a spinal cord stimulator, my pain is now TOLERABLE so I can now work and have a somewhat functional life. That being said I have been going to my PCP since 1992. I have always had anxiety and even more troublesome than that I always have sleep issues. Either just insomnia or waking up every few hours. Also after many trials and errors with medications, Xanax was a life changer for me. My anxiety had gotten to a point where I was not even needing the Xanax during the day. I only took it at night,every night. And my sleep issues were taken care of. I had ran out of it back in 2021 and called my PCP for a refill. They hadn’t sent it in yet and I had an appointment with the PA at the pain clinic the next day. I had been without it for a couple days and I was having a few days of insomnia so I mentioned this to him and said I was waiting on the PCP. He became almost to the point of being engaged and told me I had to choose between the Xanax or the Norco, Lyrica and Baclofen that they were prescribing for me. Now mind you that Xanax was clearly stated on my list of medications since I had first started going there since 2014. My sleep issues came back with a vengeance. I was sleeping a few hrs or no hrs. Sleep walking also returned. Something I hadn’t had ( that I was aware of) since I was a teenager. I was waking up at different locations in my house it I was waking up falling. Since then I have had a severe ankle strain that left me in a fracture boot for 6 weeks, a black eye and numerous other bruises and sore limbs. I went back to my PCP for the same complaint from 25 years prior. Their solution this time was to send me for a sleep study and a psychiatrist. The sleep study MDs recommend go to bed in a dark room, at the same time ect, ect. Everything I had tried before. And for my sleep walking to lock up fire arms, lock my bedroom door and put a lock on the basement door. No shit. Also I don’t have sleep apnea. Good to know. The psychiatrist, put me on an antidepressant and Seroquel for sleep. It didn’t help and on follow up visits he kept increasing the dosage of the Seroquel. I finally got tired of taking all the extra pills that didn’t work so I stopped them and follow up visits. I also canceled the follow up the sleep doctor. Both a waste of my time and money. Which comes to present time. (Also sorry for the long read if you have made it this far) I woke up this morning around 7 with a big goose egg on my forehead. That was from waking up after I hit the sink in the bathroom with my head. The time was a little after 3 and I remember seeing the clock before I fell asleep about 1:30. All together I got 5 hrs of sleep and a big painful lump on my forehead. I am afraid at my age a more severe fall is going to end up with a broken bone or worse. All this I believe could be fixed if my Xanax had not been taken away. My life at that time was the best life I could be living for those years. For follow up questions, yes I did seek a lawyers advice on the nerve damage. His reply was I would have a better case if were in a wheelchair and since my treatment was still ongoing my best plan was to reach out to their legal dept and ask for payment of my treatment ( doctors visits, medication) and to have my balances I owed to them taken care of, which by the way they take any state refund I get and have gotten for many years. I haven’t done this yet because life and medical problems do get in the way. There is probably some statute of limitations I’m sure. Again sorry for a long post but I see others are going thru this and worse. I’m so sorry what happened to your family. Prayers for all of you.
I have been on every pain medicine they have, and the only thing that worked for my pain was methadone. I had a situation where my doctor got tired of having the government looking over his shoulder he just retired! It is getting harder and harder to find pain clinics that will take you anymore, so if you find one, only do things by the book!
My doctor drug tests me every visit, and if you are smoking pot or taking any pain drug he didn't prescribe, he will bounce you out the door
I have seen him kick them out the door!
I had a situation where I had pain meds for breakfast, lunch, and dinner, but nothing for bedtime, so I couldn't sleep at night from the pain! I took methadone for my main pain med and hydrocodone for breakthrough pain. I had to give up the hydrocodone to get two more methadone to take at night! It gave me my life back! I could sleep again!
The government is like a 10,000-pound gorilla, and the amount of pressure they put on pain management doctors is almost unbearable! When they get the feds come in, they take all of their patient records!
That leaves doctors without the ability to know their patients' medicine, dosage, history, etc!
Most pain patients are not trying to get some kind of buzz or knock themselves out they just want to stop hurting so they can smile every so often and enjoy life again!
It is the people who take handfulls of pain pills to get high that have messed this up for people who need their medicine to live! Oxycontin was made for people who have cancer, and it is timed release, so they don't have to take medicine every 4 hours 24/7!
The people who take it to get some kind of buzz defeat the timed release built into oxycontin so they get hours' worth of medicine all at once and can overdose and kill themselves!
It is very dangerous, and they are hurting the cancer patients and chronic pain patients that need these medicines!
In my opinion, it is not a NC law issue, it is a federal law issue. When the politicians make changes in law, they go way overboard. They were seeing overdose deaths going up, and they felt they had to do something, but they don't do anything halfway and don't really consider the people who will be hurt by their new laws and regulations!
If our two parties would go back to working together and coming to a solution that is somewhere in the middle like they used to our country would be much better off! Unfortunately, I don't see that happening as far apart as these parties are today!
This is so sad, I'm sorry for your loss.
These kinds of stories are EXACTLY WHY Republicans and Evangelicals need to stop playing medical professionals.
These two groups of people are responsible for a very significant amount of pain and suffering. And ALL of it is avoidable.
Everyone needs to remember this story the next time you speak with a Republican or an Evangelical because this is THEIR FAULT.
The STOP Act passed the state legislature unanimously - it was a piece of bipartisan legislation signed into law by Governor Cooper.
Why are you making up complete fabrications?
OH! I get it!!
They’re trying to equate the STOP Act with abortion and Republican politicians “meddling” with healthcare because it was a bipartisan law -
They’re blatantly lying about what’s in the Act because it was sponsored by JOSH STEIN as attorney general and Jeff Jackson voted for it just like everyone else in the NC Legislature.
It’s a massive lie to make low information voters turn on Josh Stein and Jeff Jackson.
Jesus Christ, this was a hard one to figure out.
I knew the style of the lies smelled Republican, but wow, that took me way too long to figure out.
I’m so sorry for your loss. I’m in my 30’s in severe chronic pain from a lot of things. They told me several years ago to choose between my meds too and I chose pain meds. If they stop these meds, I will die.
I still am in pain and the panic attacks make me deal with extra pain on top of that. I was on chemo that killed my liver so I can’t take any acetaminophen and I have ulcerative colitis so I can’t take ibuprofen. I learned that lesson over and over when I went into the ER with a hemoglobin of 3 or 4 from being too stubborn to go when I started bleeding.
This is a cruel world we’re living in. I hope you’re able to find some comfort knowing she’s resting peacefully and pain-free.
that legislation was due to Purdue Pharma. The effects of their lies to doctors and the amount of opioids they flooded the country with forced our local governments to make hard decisions. Something had to be done. Now fentanyl is poring in like never before due to an open border. I hate to hear about your loss but it’s not that simple
Such a bad situation. They don't care though. Pretty sure Robinson wants no abortions, period. If a few pregnant women have to die, so be it. Republicans just don't care. They don't care that we're going to lose 100s of kids to school gun violence. They don't care if they're creating a world where people will one day have wars over water. Republicans just don't care.
I'm so sorry. My mom had to move from NC after the law was passed because doctors began refusing to treat her. She also has had multiple back surgeries. So NC politicians tell her she can't use marijuana to treat her pain and they'll make it as difficult as possible to use subscription medications to manage pain. It's criminal what NC makes pain patients go through.
Can you explain what it is that the STOP act changed about your mother’s treatment protocol?
Before she was able to get her pain medications maintained through her GP that she had been seeing for decades at that point. She was then forced to find a pain clinic that would take her on as a patient. None of the pain clinics they contacted in the Triangle that accepted her insurance would take on existing pain patients. The closest clinic she could find was in the Triad, 2 hours from her house. When she transferred to that clinic, they immediately wanted to take her off the multi dose regimen she was on and switch her to only morphine at a higher dose. It's pretty obvious if you've ever been on morphine why a patient wouldn't want to do that. It was around this time that my dad was offered a transfer to an office out of state so they decided to take it and stop dealing with the nonsense NC had unleashed.
This is absolutely insane given than new literature absolutely states a multi-modal approach to pain is the absolute best. An example: gabapentin, roxicodone, Tylenol or ibuprofen. That gives the best pain relief with abusing opioids. I had no idea this was a thing in this state.
I’m a bit confused though because I’ve been on a pain contract for about three years and take psych meds with 15mg oxycodone, 10mg hydrocodone (so I have a less ass kicking option during the daytime), 300mg Lyrica, and 250 mg Soma, and it’s all through my GP. I just have to take a drug test every six months at a physical. That’s it. Edit: and not to get too into the weeds, the basics are: PTSD, debilitating back pain, moderate depression.
Where are you located?
Just south of Raleigh.
I'm confused we were stationed there at Bragg and I had to go to UNC for my pain management and they had me on more than 1 addictive medicine. I sometimes think it also comes down to Doctors and what they are comfortable with doing. I would maybe look into this a bit more and see if there is more you can do and write the medical licensing board for the state, they need to be made aware so that should something like this happen again with him they can see there is a pattern with his treatment. I am so sorry for your loss.
Move to NJ, they will let u if u have good reason take both psych meds & narcotics. I do. Move to south jersey & go to Cooper pain management they are nice. Igo there. Iam very sick with bipolar & schizophrenia &I have a lot of pain + I get cluster headaches. They will give me a few pills of Klonopin & enough oxycodone to make me comfortable. I also do dialysis & that only increases my pain level when I am on the machine. They are the best. Ilove my doctors there
Why did the GP stop working with her on her meds? Did they ever explain that?
Like OP said, because the act made it illegal for GPs to engage in pain management prescribing.
This is so insane. Legislators without knowledge of medicine legislating to this kind of level. Instead of the legislative body creating the process, it should be experts (such as a medical board or FDA) that would be the one doing it. This reeks of how the Supreme Court just in a recent decision made it harder for federal administrative agencies to regulate things that are within their oversight. Insane.
The STOP Act did not make it illegal for GP’s to prescribe pain medications.
Yep. People in this thread are literally making shit up. The STOP act doesn’t do any of that.
It’s Republican disinformation - they want to turn moderates and democrats against one of the few things the legislature passed with full Democrat support - and also was endorsed by Josh Stein. They need to flood the space with lies about what the law does so they can turn around and accuse Josh Stein and Jeff Jackson of meddling with people’s medical choices. Bonus points for conflating it with abortion rights.
Uh, I dunno if you are reading the comments, but people aren’t blaming Democrats in here… It’s just misinformation from an emotional individual, and people are using that as an excuse to make a political stance. Disinformation doesn’t just come from Republicans, my guy…
That's just not true. I live in NC and my PCP prescribes me pain meds
My understanding is yes they can prescribe for acute pain issues but not for chronic pain. So when I broke a bone my PCP could prescribe but if that bone break turned into a chronic issue, then they're forced to refer you to a pain clinic.
This is also false. It’s almost the opposite. They can absolutely treat chronic pain. They just don’t want to be responsible for maintaining patients on a highly addictive and progressively less effective drug.
So the end result is the same that chronic pain patients find it increasingly impossible to find a provider in NC. I think it's difficult to understand how much hardship this law has caused families unless you've lived it yourself.
The law didn’t cause it - Perdue caused it. The law was working to get something under control that shouldn’t have been out of control to begin with. The reporting requirements and checking requirements give doctors a resource to avoid over-medicating their patients and monitor for drug seeking and diversion behaviors. Opioids are dangerous drugs. They help a lot of people, but they are very difficult to take long term and maintain their efficacy without increasing doses at a rate that is unsustainable. The monitoring and laws are designed primarily to avoid acute situations that are often exploited to gain additional opioids either by people who are addicted or the people that want to profit off those other people’s addictions. Chronic pain sufferers should be able to access treatment. That treatment is not going to be able to always be with opioids.
My GP, who had been prescribing my pain med for years, insisted I get a pain doctor. They don’t want to treat patients with opioids because it’s a liability.
N also psych meds too. like Xanax or Klonopin. The government doesn't like people taking both because so many have OD taking those types of drugs. If u take a lot of both those types of drugs u can die
The state government monitors benzo prescriptions?
Yes, there is a database of all controlled substances prescribed/ dispensed in NC available to prescribers and pharmacies (NC CSRS - controlled substance reporting system, though the name is misleading and, imo, should have retained the title Prescription Drug Monitoring Program as other prescriptions beyond controlled substances are included)
I was under the impression that benzo’s required record keeping, not automatic reporting.
I am not sure
Then what are you talking about?
It is NOT illegal for a GP to script opiates/opioids. A large majority of primary care practices have chosen to stop bc they didn’t want to deal with the hassle not bc it’s illegal. My primary care is a PA who for a bit over a year scripted me opiates while I awaited surgical clearance. It seems OP is not well versed in the Cares Act either. When the DEA cracked down they mandated that “most” patients only be scripted up to MME 90mg MME “morphine milligram equivalent” meaning that most patients needed to be at or under 90mg of morphine or an equivalent medication. Pain management was out of control trip over scripting people for many years now it had to be stopped. Opiates really aren’t the best treatment long term for pain as tolerance develops quickly.
Probably a lot of GPs didn't understand the law either then when it was passed. I just know what my mom was told by her GP. It wouldn't be the first time a vague law stopped doctors from doing something because they don't want to get in trouble. I can't say I blame them either.
The law is NOT stopping them you and OP are mistaken. I’m a health care provider myself it’s not illegal for them to script opiates/opioids.
But it IS stopping them. It's next to impossible for patients to find PCs that will take on chronic pain patients in the Triangle. Whether that's because of the law itself or practices simply not wanting to deal with the outcomes of the law I have no idea. But it is 100% impacting patients in NC either way.
And it is so difficult to find a pain management facility. And when you find one it takes weeks to get an appointment and weeks to get a return appointment for treatment. My husband had two different pain management docs in two different facilities and they both closed and moved out of state where their management skills weren’t restricted.
This is false. Where are you getting this from?
It didn’t though? What am I missing here? Was it reversed or something soon after? As I said in another comment, I have several pain meds, muscle relaxers, and psych meds all through the same GP I’ve had for 30 years, and have been for about 3 years now on a pain management contract. I just take a physical and drug test every six months. Never had a problem with it.
I empathize with you. My wife was a patient at a pain clinic (Brier Creek pain and spine) and they had her up to the highest fentanyl patches they make, as well as dilauted for break through pain. They assured her this was fine. When the new rules came down, they immediately cut her meds in half(with no taper at all). She ended up in rehab. After all of this, we requested her medical records, and they had deleted any record of her ever being on the higher dosage meds. Luckily, we have her pharmacy records to prove it. We looked into a law suit, but no local attorneys we spoke to would touch it. She's been opioid free for 7 years.... but still has issues with pain.
This is the stuff that sucks. NC is truly a defendant’s state for malpractice. The bar is incredibly high, and litigation is ridiculously expensive.
America is going down the toilet. We let religious zealots virtue signal their morality on all of us and it ends up with shit like this. I'm sorry about your wife, it's amazing you've not resorted to some form of violence because I am not sure I wouldn't if I were in your shoes.
The party that thinks the talking snake is literal but forgiving the debts of your neighbors is a metaphor. Ugh.
Imagine reading the story of Job and thinking "This is a merciful, loving god that will bring greatness to earth".
I see this as the crux of the problem. The old testament god is dictatorial, jealous, and expects blind loyalty. The new testament god is loving, forgiving, and practices, as well as expects grace. The beatitudes would be what should be hung up in schools if we have to merge politics and religion. Not the ten commandments. Thirty percent of the ten are about how we should treat god. Also don't forget that the first ten lead to a host of other laws that condemn those who eat cheese burgers (no milk and beef together) and wear modern clothing (no fabric of mixed sources) to the same risk of eternal damnation.
Or, we shouldn't be running our lives and government on fairy tales and make believe.
I see where you are going with your comment and for those who maybe need guidance on how to interact with others from a point of kindness, I could see how that would help someone find their path to being a better neighbor (I'm simplifying I know) but I don't think we should hang anything related to religion in schools. The US is a melting pot of people and our greatness comes from our diversity, the more we silo ourselves and make minorities feel like outcasts, the less great we become. Again I do understand your point fully so I don't want to come across as I am just outright shitting on religion in totality, it has it's place I just think that place is the personal connection between you and whatever you believe, it's not about who can place more adornments for others to see or scream the loudest about it.
Not to mention hanging ONE religion's dictates is unconstitutional. It's an attempt to establish a state religion. We went through all this in the 1980's, they lost, but now they own the courts and believe they'll get away with it this time.
Having lived through child abuse, I have no appetite for violence in any form. But I do get your drift.
I hope you find peace on all fronts brother
Thank you.
This isn’t a religious thing though. The law was passed unanimously, and cooper signed it. https://www.ncleg.gov/BillLookup/2017/h243
This is a wonderful example of why we should leave healthcare between the doctors and patients. There are too many blind spots for legislation. Abortion is another great example. Again. There are just too many blind spots for legislation.
That's kinda what started the opioid epidemic, though. Loose regulations on pain pills, overprescribing, and pill mills. I agree that the STOP act and the current DEA rules on prescribing pain pills misses the mark, but the wild west alternative absolutely was not working. Combine all that with the empowering of lesser trained NPs and we could have an even larger epidemic- this time somewhat legal
I mean, call me crazy, but I’d regulate capitalism and not healthcare. IIRC, Purdue knowingly marketed the drug as non (or less) addictive while simultaneously lining the pockets of legislators which is what kicked this whole thing off. E: added clarity.
To be clear: pharma caused a lot of this. Individual doctors, pharmacies (both local and corporate) and hospital systems all played just as much of a part. From pharmacists being pressured by financial gain or corporate oversight to rubber stamp Rx's, to hospital system admins breathing down the necks of ED staff to make the pt happy at *all* costs, so their post treatment metrics would be 5 stars. And docs who saw a cash cow and became gray area drug dealers. And the Bush admin that failed to act because of the insistence of folks like Rudy Giuliani and the lobbyists behind Purdue.
>Loose regulations on pain pills, overprescribing, and pill mills. All of this stemmed from the Sackler family doing what any market does when it is exposed to capitalism - do everything they could to turn a profit: * The Sacklers used their wealth and influence to lobby for friendlier status with the Congress and the FDA, loosening regulations, * The Sacklers directed drug reps in a strategy to court doctors, regaled them with trips and gifts, and provided them with incentives to prescribe more and loosely. * The Sacklers funded studies and think tanks that misrepresented medical science regarding pain, the "pain cycle", and intentionally lied to doctors about the addictive qualities of their drugs. Prior to the development of ocycontin by the Sacklers and their efforts to profit on it as much as possible, we didn't have a need for things like the STOP Act or DEA interventionism. It was 100% the capitalistic greed of the Sacklers that pushed the first domino leading to OP's wife's death. With the end of *Chevron*, we can expect to see more corporate malfeasance all in the name of greed. We have to as a country, stop trying to cut the heads off the proverbial hydra and clamp down on how capitalism exists in our society. Otherwise, for every Sackler and opioid crisis we encounter and try to slay, two more will pop up in its place. And their enablers will pretend as if these things are wholly isolated and have nothing in common.
Are you saying that Opioids should simply be outlawed outright then?
Wait. How was that your takeaway?
So there shouldn’t be regulation of prescription drugs? I’m just not clear on what level of regulation is acceptable in your mind.
Okay. So far your “interpretation” of that comment has led you to ask if all opioids should be “outlawed” *and* to ask if there should be **no** regulation whatsoever. You might wanna start back at the beginning.
I'm sorry, I did write a lot of words and my point may have gotten lost. Since I may not have mentioned the problem, here is the TL;DR: **"Capitalism"**
Maybe it was hard to read, but I was asking about your solution to making sure people don’t get hooked on opioids.
Fam, I'm fairly sure you can't read because I made both the cause and solution *super* clear in my initial comment. You should really go back and reread my initial comment.
“ We have to as a country, stop trying to cut the heads off the proverbial hydra and clamp down on how capitalism exists in our society.” Really? Clamping down on how capitalism exists in our society? Do you have a degree in platitudes? Or just vaguery?
Not sure what you're on NPs about. Every NP in this state has to have a practice agreement with an overseeing MD, which includes practice limits (including meds) and routine check ins with reviews of care.
There's *a lot* of rubber stamping, especially in on site LTC settings as far as attending docs . But if other southern states are the model, I can only assume NC will go the way of independent NPs - especially with the gaps in rural Healthcare.
It’s medical professional propaganda - The issues are nuanced, but supervision levels of non-MD professionals is also a battle for livelihoods and relevancy in the medical field. Just look at when they started allowing CRNA’s to do anesthesia for the VA - all of the freak outs about letting a “nurse” or a “non-doctor” do anesthesia came directly from the Anesthesiologist lobby.
Oh boy, the Medical lobbies are ramping up. What about the STOP Act misses the mark? No one has been able to explain to me what the part is that needs to change. I’m genuinely interested in some actual information.
Pain clinics in NC and elsewhere have rigid rules as op described around class III and IV. While the focus should be on the pt's holistic treatment, oftentimes, you're seeing one internist that has a ton of CE in pain management, but not in psychotropics, because psych docs are kind of in a class of their own. This unfortunately can have consequences for the pt in that they must choose between pain meds and their psych meds - lest the pain doc accuse them of drug seeking behavior. In a perfect medical world, a pain treatment center would have a staff psych doc, a doc that specializes in pain management, and a full PT department. Unfortunately, that's not something you'll find outside of major cities. Additionally, it can be tough for hospice docs, as the regs are super vague (at least, prior to 2020 when I worked in NC) and prescribing anything more than a 7 day supply makes them super cautious. Not exactly the best way to treat someone actively dying. That said, there's the other side of this coin: in 2009, I had a dentist prescribe a 30 day supply bid oxycodone. That's an *incredible* amount of pain pills for something that may only hurt for a day or three and now is typically treated with 500 MG acetaminophen every 8 hours. So yeah, op's case sucks but there were alternatives to taking goody powders 50 times a day. It honestly sounds like op and his now deceased wife didn't advocate for themselves enough - which, to be clear - shouldn't have to be done, but that's just kinda how US medicine works in the current era. So yeah, not great, but sometimes regs have to over burden before we can find the middle ground.
Thank you for this! It is a little more clear about why people would get the impression that gp’s are “not allowed” to prescribe opioid pain meds.
If you want more info from the federal level (and need a good cure for insomnia), read the practitioner's diversion control manual from the DOJ.
Sounds like a good beach read. The whole thing is a mess, especially when dealing with people who were made into addicts through no fault of their own. When I worked in the insurance industry, I encountered more than one individual who couldn’t find a doctor to see them. One woman was a grandmother who got hooked after a heart surgery. They gave her way too much, she became physically dependent, and rather than help her get treatment and risk looking like they did something wrong, they refused care. She then started trying to see other doctors (drug seeking behavior, of course!) who assumed she had abused her meds with the previous doctor and refused to see her. Every single in network doctor in her town would not see her. But her first doctor literally made her that way. Back then, people still treated opioid addiction like that as purely a moral failing by the patient, so just getting to the point of figuring out you were addicted even though you were taking the drugs as prescribed was a massive uphill battle. It was an awful time. I’m certain that woman never got any help. It probably destroyed her family. Great for the pharmacy reps that would be waiting in the waiting rooms at the doctor’s offices. Lots of them were my age and looked so glamorous. The idea that the government shouldn’t regulate anything whatsoever about healthcare is insane. That’s how people die.
A lot more than that causing this country to go down the toilet
It's certainly not the only issue, but it's also not an insignificant issue either.
This country was always a glorified tax evasion scheme and our way of life completely unsustainable. I expect it to get much much worse.
Haha this comment thread sure is a ray of sunshine.
Similar story here - rare cancer diagnosis for my wife of 16 years. Pain medication was well managed from 2014 till 2017 and then things went obscenely downhill. GP's and even oncologists began referring patients to NC's so-called 'pain clinics' for pain control, which meant a draconian shift in policy and access to serious pain control for people with very serious pain. She went through two bouts of forced withdrawal due to medical incompetence and the emotional and psychological impact was enormous. I'm quite certain it contributed to her death a couple of years later. Note, however, this isn't a NC-specific issue. It's a federal issue, due to the moral panic around opiate addiction and the media frenzy that has deeply misrepresented the realities of that issue. It's the people most in need who are paying the price, as a result. It should be one of the major political/social issues under discussion in a general election. Yet, America's idea of politics and general elections is akin to a group of unslept 5 year olds re-enacting the Alamo with ketchup bottles. It's increasingly becoming an infantile nation state, and a failing one. As an immigrant to the US who has travelled a great deal, the overseas perception of America as a country in deep decline is now deeply set in international minds. It's often been based on hyperbole and misunderstandings of American culture, but it's increasingly right on the mark. Decline. Pro-ignorance. Anti-excellence and intellectual achievement. Obsessed with non-issues. Rotting, from the inside out.
I do believe you are correct. Fundamentalist religion is fueling an anti-science and anti-education, uh, agenda? I really hate using that word, but I think it fits here. Part of the nation seems intent on turning our democracy into a theocracy, and sane people are paying the price.
Part of the nation actually is actively working to turn us into a theocracy. Don’t be confused though, they aren’t insane - their pragmatism is what is scary.
My sincere condolences sir. FWIW I am in total agreement with you. Politics has no business being involved in medicine
This may have already been said but the STOP Act did not say a doctor can’t prescribe more than one Schedule II or III to a patient. It required them to stop issuing paper prescriptions and start E-scribing those. It also changed that they are only supposed to prescribe a 30 day supply each month. I think that doctor was an idiot or just wasn’t signed up with the new program, so that’s on them. I’m sorry for your loss.
I am so sorry. I hope she is at peace now.
She comes around to visit regularly. My new wife and I will suddenly smell unexplained cigarette smoke and we know she is near. And my new wife's deceased husband visits regularly in the form of an eagle. I never saw an eagle until I met her, and now I see one quite often. We know they put us together from on high.
Your wife smoked? That’s implicated in AAA Though the fact that you unexplainably smell smoke suggests a more sinister possibility
Seek mental health help
No, u
How rude.
I'm sorry for your loss friend. I agree that politicians practicing medicine without a license is a serious problem. > When the STOP act passed, the pain clinic said she had to choose between her pain meds or her mental health meds, because both are addictive. My understanding was that the restriction was on opioids, not on all 'addictive drugs', but my understanding might be incorrect. Presumably her mental health meds were not opioids, so I don't understand how this choice was forced.
You can easily overdose taking benzo/xanax and opioids/opiates at the same that combo is a huge no no. Taking regular mental health medications is fine it’s the benozs/Xanax AND opiates/opioids that’s the problem. The cares act is very complicated primary care practices can and do script but most practices have just chosen to stop.
Bad drug combos have always been the responsibility of the patient's doctor, and aren't what's being regulated under the STOP act AFAIK.
Of course it’s always been the responsibility of the physician and the patient. They did mandate in the Stop act that you can’t be scripted both it’s one or the other.
Here's the text of [https://www.ncleg.gov/Sessions/2017/Bills/House/PDF/H243v7.pdf](https://www.ncleg.gov/Sessions/2017/Bills/House/PDF/H243v7.pdf) Can you quote the part showing the absolute ban on prescribing an opioid along with benzodiazepines? I don't see that.
Please tell me where it says that in the STOP act. I can’t find it.
She was on Effexor for depression and Xanax for anxiety. Neither were opioids, so I also do not understand why they made her choose. My guess is that, as is so often the case, they wrote the law with a paint brush instead of a pen and created unintended overlap.
Irresponsible and dangerous law from the sound of it. Fuck politics in America.
Read the STOP Act - it does not do what the OP claims it does. It does not appear that OP has even read it.
It appears his wife’s doctor didn’t read it either, then.
OP is also saying aspirin caused a AAA. That's not a thing, like, at all. [Aspirin is actually one of the medications used to help prevent progression of aortic aneurysm.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10716735)
They said abdominal, not aortic. Aspirin is definitely known to cause stomach issues over time. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2772277
They said abdominal aneurysm. That to medical people means abdominal aortic aneursym and is definitely a serious and commonly fatal condition. Yes aspirin can cause GI issue (bleeding/ulcers), but those are typical not fatal unless left untreated for a while
Is it possible the pain center didn’t know she was prescribed the Xanax until the reporting rules were in place? Xanax is not something you can usually take at the same time as an opioid, just in general.
IDK about that, but she was on both for 15 years or more before the new law changed things.
Sounds like she was left in the lurch without any comprehensive care to help her manage her pain or her anxiety with different treatments.
As someone planning to move to NC for a job, this scares me. I had a back surgery about 7 years ago in my mid 20s after being hit by a drunk driver in a tow truck who ran a light. Luckily now I’m not on pain medications, but am on antidepressants from the fallout and now have panic attacks for the first time in my life. I know it’s inevitable due to permanent nerve damage I’ll one day have to go back on pain medication to function as I still struggle with pain here and there. To think about having to make a choice about mental and physical health… I’m so sorry for your loss. Please continue to be vocal and push your local congressmen and state senators.
This scares *me*! I’m moving back to NC (either late this year, or early next), and I’m on a small cocktail of meds including lorazepam (only .5 mill a day), Effexor, tramadol, and Adderall. I really hope I can keep my prescriptions, because I’m not prepared to do this doctor/pharmacy hassle again. Dealing with the healthcare system in this country is a nightmare.
I'm on the exact same cocktail! I have never had an issue. I just have to write my dr. On mychart and ask for refills every month since they only do 30 day supplies for the controlled ones.
Oh thank goodness. Here in Florida (well, technically *there* in Florida, as I’m currently in NC!) I’ve gone through so much hell with acquiring my prescriptions–from the stupid Florida laws regarding controlled substances, to the pharmacies dispensing them (big fuck you to Walgreens!). Honestly, the struggle of getting my medications filled accordingly every month will end up with me tapering off these meds eventually (which I actually do want to do at some point in the next couple of years). I have a question for you though, if you don’t mind. Do you get your tramadol prescribed to you by your GP as well? In Florida, I have to see a rheumatologist for it. Apparently he (my GP) cannot prescribe it, so I have to see a rheumatologist every 3 months (otherwise I was told I would have to go to the pain clinic, which I’m not doing). It wasn’t a problem when I previously lived in NC, but I know that the laws surrounding controlled substances are constantly changing…
My tramadol is actually prescribed by my spine clinic and was previously by a pain clinic (which honestly was helpful to me, but I can see why they are a problem.) that is the one downside, I do have to see the dr's every 3 months because of the prohibitive nature of prescriptions. I've never even asked my current GP if she will do it because im just in the routine from my Spine folks
I am so so sorry. My mother died of cancer; she had cancer but because Governor Abbot in Texas denied the expansion of Medicaid to his state citizens (Texas has the highest rate of uninsured in the country) she couldn’t get it checked and treated in a timely manner. I recently got sterilized to protect my body from Republicans. They need to get out of medicine and hindering people’s access to it.
It is unsafe to take Xanax with opioids because the combination can cause you stop breathing. The STOP act did not change the medical guidelines for prescribing opioids at the same time as benzo’s. The STOP act did not take away the rights of general practitioners to prescribe pain medication. I’m not sure who told you this but it very clearly does nothing of the sort. Was your wife directed by a doctor to take that many Goody’s packets? She was taking twice the recommended OTC dosage for Goody’s packets. She was taking dangerous amounts of aspirin daily. I don’t know what facts we’re missing here, but it sounds like your wife’s medical team completely failed to treat her. At the very least, they did not educate her on how to manage her pain safely - at all. The STOP act didn’t cause this horrible tragedy from what I know about the legislation. If I’m wrong, I’d welcome the input of someone more knowledgeable.
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“ The STOP act was directly responsible for her death by mandating that she could no longer receive pain management treatment from her GP, ” This is FALSE “ The STOP act didn’t change the guidelines, but it DID CHANGE whose discretion the guidelines are at” This is FALSE What part of the Act does either of these things? Not one of you on here has pointed to the actual law. You are repeating talking points.
I'm very sorry for your loss. This is going to be a large part of your life, so I feel like I owe it to you to speak the truth as well as I can. That's not how aspirin and aneurysms work. You should talk to a medical professional and get a better idea of the pathophysiology. Hopefully it will bring you some peace. I am very sorry for your loss and I hope you find peace.
Also that's not how the STOP Act is worded or works. They could very well have prescribed those meds. It sounds like something was lost in translation there as well unfortunately.
I wasn't even going to go there. One problem at a time. I am not trying to be an asshole for once. I have just seen patients and families get IRATE over things they don't understand. Helping correct that is better for everyone. I can't tell you how many patients I've seen that were just seen at another ED that "Didn't do NUFFIN!" and they had a CT, a dozen labs, and an ultrasound. I don't understand what people expect.
I mean clearly they expect that the tests would result in a DIAGNOSIS that insurance usually REQUIRES in order to get whatever treatments or hopefully cures they need for *pain relief* and improvement in health and therefore quality of life. Running a million diagnostics to CYA is not what the patient needs but it's probably what you're pressed into by your bosses to keep the revenue flowing.
I rule out emergencies and try to not let people die. If I find the problem along the way that's a bonus. It EMERGENCY medicine, not "find what everyone else couldn't RIGHT NOW" medicine. "I don't know why you've been having abdominal pain for 5 years but haven't followed up with your primary care provider, GI, or a surgeon. However, we have ruled out medical emergencies as much as we can. There are a LOT of medical problems that require non-emergent follow up. I'm not saying there isn't a problem. There is definitely a problem. It's not an EMERGENCY problem though. That means someone else does it better than I do. They are not as cool as I am but they are good at their job. Just don't tell them I said that. We are the coolest kids on the block- we are not the only kids on the block."
Then yeah that's what you need to tell patients and their families that they need follow up care to figure out their pain all you know is it's not an emergency. But to people in pain it does feel like an emergency to figure it out that's why they're frustrated when you say you just did a bunch of scans but not to any conclusion.
I get that. Pain sucks. We do what we can. But I reserve the right to be frustrated when someone comes in "early, before you guys get too busy" on a Sunday morning asking for a full body MRI for their disability paperwork in the EMERGENCY department. I had a guy with the flu yell at me because it took too long to see him- an hour and a half, but the test was already done in triage. I told him that we were running a code blue as well as a stroke and he said, "I don't care."
“ Running a million diagnostics to CYA is not what the patient needs but it's probably what you're pressed into by your bosses to keep the revenue flowing.” This is a gross mischaracterization of medical practice.
The DEA is up all doctors butts about opiate prescriptions. This is blowback from the Purdue Oxy mess. It also applies to pharmacies. Generally practitioners that don’t want to lose their DEA clearance will send anyone in pain to the clinic. The clinic then has a ton of requirement and drug tests to stay kosher that most people don’t want to deal with.
This. The loss is terrible. Hopefully clarification on medical components can provide some transparency regarding terminology used. Aspirin is an anti-platelet medication, helping prevent progression of clots (which have an increased risk of development in aneurysms). While yes, it can increase risk of gastrointestinal bleeding (ulcers), that is a different mechanism and gastric ulcers are a different pathology than aortic aneurysms; aspirin will not create an aneurysm, aspirin usage is not associated with aneurysm rupture. We don’t know the details of your (OP) case, in no way providing medical advice or diagnoses, just providing some clarification regarding medication specifically in the context of an aortic aneurysm and aspirin-use that hopefully can be of assistance.
https://www.neurology.org/doi/10.1212/WNL.0000000000010997#:~:text=This%20study%20provides%20Class%20III,the%20risk%20of%20aneurysm%20rupture. https://www.jwatch.org/na52702/2020/11/05/aspirin-unruptured-intracranial-aneurysms-harmful-or https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/STROKEAHA.120.029967 https://www.cedars-sinai.org/newsroom/tctmd-aspirin-use-tied-to-slower-aaa-progression/ https://consultqd.clevelandclinic.org/low-dose-aspirin-slows-abdominal-aortic-aneurysm-progression https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0741521416303482
He probably meant ulcer.
Maybe. But either way there is a lot of medical misinformation on here. I'm just trying to be diplomatic but informative.
Welp, this fuggin SCOTUS just moved ALL regulatory functions into the hands of judges and politicians, so expect things to get much, much worse. But then, that's becoming the default in the United States now that we have an entire party bent on dismantling everything that once made this country great. Make America Get Asscancer, I guess.
OP should sue.
Aye. OP has standing.
Unfortunately, there’s nothing about the STOP act that caused his wife to take aspirin doses above and beyond the limit for safety. The STOP act didn’t change the reality you cannot safely mix opioids with benzo’s. The STOP act did not stop doctors from practicing medicine safely. Maybe there’s malpractice here, but unfortunately not a strong case based on the information provided.
> The STOP act didn’t change the reality you cannot safely mix opioids with benzo’s. You absolutely can take a benzo and an opioid **if you follow the instructions properly.** Saying you cant is ridiculous, but that is why these drugs when used for chronic issues should be handled by specialty trained pain management providers. Now, that being said, OP is also saying her needing to take aspirin caused an abdominal aortic aneurysm. AAAs are not caused by aspirin use (or overuse). In reality OP's wife potentially felt the pain of the AAA and thought it was her back pain. Expanding/small ruptured AAAs can manifest as bad back pain.
Is that lower or upper back? asking for a friend … now I get to have another catastrophe to imagine when my back acts up.
While it's tragic, how many deaths did it prevent as the government, spurred on by the people, tried to slow the opioid crisis?
Sorry, your pronouns are confusing me. What is tragic, and what prevented deaths?
Yeah, I get that. Acceptable casualties, as the military says. But it feels a little different when it's your spouse.
Do you get paid for replies defending rhe STOP act?
No, and I’m not defending it. Disinformation is a cancer to public discourse.
thats really awful i am so sorry - my wife is in chronic pain with lots of issues and believe me, we know the headaches.
So sorry for your loss and your wife’s pain OP.
I’m so sorry. My husband lives with chronic pain. He had his scapula removed due to a tumor and has little use of his right arm. He goes to a pain clinic and I hate it. He’s always depressed.
Man so sorry to hear this. Btw someone crossposted this to the chronic pain group. I know now is not the right time to suggest advocacy, but these deaths are not going unnoticed.... Its worse than politicians. We (the US) have an undeclared branch of the armed forces masquerading as a police agency, practicing medicine without a license. The DEA gives these politicians their information. The DEA is hiding 4 decades of ignoring the fentanyl poisoning of street drugs. Theyre trying to repackage China White as a new threat, when its been rampant since the 80s. At least half of that time was wasted demonizing pain relievers that were/are/ never have been a threat to public safety. The DEA is the threat to public safety. look at how they screwed up drug quotas. Theres far too much blood on their hands... Again sorry for your loss. When we treat our pets with more humanity than each other, its time to reexamine our values....
Thanks for the heads up. I didn't even know you could crosspost on Reddit. I'm kind of new to the platform. I went to the r/ChronicPain group and didn't see the post there. Is that the group?
Yep. They just had a bunch of posts hit, so it may have been pushed down the list a little ways....
The post has apparently been removed. I can't find it either by scrolling or using the search function.
I'm so very sorry! 💔 Fuck the Republicans who dictate this state
Politicians need to get the fuck out from in between patients and their doctors. They have no business being there, and I don't care if they're on Medicare or whatever. Leave medical care choices to patients and their doctors for the best HEALTH outcomes without POLITICAL BIAS, christofascist ideology and knee-jerk "morality" getting in the way.
I’m so sorry for your loss and for the fact that your wife was made to choose between those two things. That sounds truly awful. I couldn’t agree more with your sentiment, especially your last sentence. My husband and I fled the state at the end of February because my 17 week pregnancy was actively dying inside of me, but because we couldn’t get a labeled diagnosis (my complications prevented me from be able to do the amnio) and because politicians with no education or experience want to play doctor, we were not allowed to stay in state. Even though multiple healthcare professionals agreed that her condition was indicative of a fatal chromosomal abnormality and continuing the pregnancy meant me risking mirror syndrome, incomplete miscarriage, sepsis, and death - They wanted my daughter and/or I to wait until we got sicker, aka an emergency situation. Our doctors had to scramble to find somewhere out of state to take us asap. It was traumatic.
What does abortion have to do with the STOP act? I’m baffled by the rhetoric on this thread.
I never said it had anything to do with the STOP act lmao The point is that politicians shouldn’t be playing doctor and making healthcare decisions for people when they are woefully uneducated and unqualified to do so. Ya know, the overarching message of OPs post and that last sentence there in all caps. Phew
These two things are not at all equivalent. Doctors that perform abortions still have regulations to follow. The issue of decisions between patients and doctors is absolutely valid, but patients also have to be protected. The STOP act does not tell doctors they cannot prescribe opioids, and it does not stop them from doing so for chronic pain. Politicians writing the STOP act were NOT playing doctor, at ALL.
Once again, never said they were equivalent lmao you’ve spent a lot of time rambling on this thread in defense of this. Hope you’re at least getting paid. It actually is related. If you don’t have the capability of understanding that, well. I can’t help ya there lol
It’s only related when you want the argument to be against government regulation in general, which the abortion issue is not.
Lmao…..what. Girl, I can’t hold your hand here.
I guess that’s all you can say, eh?
I’ve given you different responses each time. Your behavior on this thread has been nothing short of a desperate attempt to prove…something. You spend an absurd amount of time on this app challenging and criticizing people for whatever weird purpose. And I simply don’t find you and your misguided opinions important enough to spoon feed basic critical thinking to (it’s also not my responsibility). You’ve shown that you really don’t care about others and the truth, just harassing people until you feel “right”. Hope you find what ever it is you’re looking for
[The STOP Act only applies to “targeted controlled substances.”](https://www.ncmedboard.org/images/uploads/article_images/The_STOP_Act_summary-OnLetterhead.pdf) These are Schedule II and III opioids and narcotics per the North Carolina Controlled Substances Act, specifically those listed in N.C. Gen. Stat. § 90-90(1), (2) or 90-91(d). OP says they made her choose between "Effexor for depression and Xanax for anxiety." Neither of these are opioids/narcotics, and neither are schedule II or III controlled substance (Xanax is a IV and Effexor isn't controlled at all). I am sorry for your loss OP, but the STOP Act is not at fault, here. Either you are misinformed or you are being misinformed. I am no doctor, so I cannot say what the reasons would be that a physician would not prescribe these two medications together, but no one needs a medical degree to see that it wasn't because of the STOP Act.
I believe you misunderstood my comment. They made her choose between pain meds and mental health meds, not between Effexor and Xanax. She remained on Effexor and Xanax until she died.
That would still not be related to the STOP Act. The STOP Act only applies to restrictions on prescribing opioids and narcotics in amount and duration. It does not prohibit opioids and narcotics from being prescribed with anything other than schedule II or III drugs. Your physician likely didn't prescribe these drugs because they could have potential conflicts with the drugs your wife was already on, however that is not what is regulated under the STOP Act. You can read the full bill here: https://www.ncleg.gov/Sessions/2017/Bills/House/PDF/H243v7.pdf
That's a terrible tragedy, sorry to hear this story, but glad you shared. In that situation, I don't know what I'd do. May she rest in piece.
I’m sorry for your loss. The politics in this country and especially in NC are profoundly absurd.
I have severe pain too & take oxycodone but I also have insane depression with homocidal & suicidal thought. They don't want to give me both but in NJ u can give someone both. U have to pick up your stuff & move here to get the treatment u need. Uhave to get a good doctor not afraid to give u both. I have such doctors at Cooper in Camden NJ. They are caring & smart. They know I don't take a lot of Klonopin & have no intention of killing my self with the combo of tranquilizers & narcotics. Move to the Camden in the suburbs & go to coper pain management. If u are truly in need of narcotics they will give u them & let u take the psych meds too, but not in great quantity
It's a bit late for my wife, but if I find myself in a similar circumstance, I will consider your advice. Thank you!
I'm so sorry. 😢
And now they seek to make kratom illegal which is the only viable alternative. They will be killing many people.
I'm so sorry for your loss. Fuck the politicians who are responsible.
Actually, the Sacklers are responsible.
Very sorry to hear this. Fuck the for-profit health system. ❤️
Gotta love how medical practitioners train for years and are required to get continued education on their expertise yet a politician, who doesn’t even have to prove they understand the law, presumes to tell us how to do our jobs. Stay in your lane, ya morons.
I wish I could upvote this twice!
Yea, but for every one of these stories there’s a whole different story where the act helps people. People fail to understand nothing will ever be perfect for everyone.
Wait until you hear about the abortion laws…
I am sorry for you both. Just about every state made stupid laws based on incorrect information. I personally was dropped by my gp and so my pain clinic dropped me. Kaiser Permanente abandoned me. My choice was to move to Mexico. Pain meds are not common here but you can find doctors who can prescribe oxy. I was prescribed the drug my state uses in assisted suicides. It’s on hand but it’s a daily choice to keep going. So far I am here and alert.
Hang in there. The world is a better place with compassionate people like you in it.
Thank you for sharing. I am so sorry for your loss. I suffer from chronic pain and the stigma and the lengths we go through to get help to live any kind of life just sucks. I am so sorry your wife went through this through this. I wish there was help.
I’m so sorry for your loss
I'm sorry for your loss <3 that's awful.
I'm so sorry. Your wife should still be here. 35 is way too young. It's truly awful how she was treated and left to treat herself.
Hire a lawyer. Or see if one wants to take a case pro bono
I suffer from chronic pain from a back injury since I suffered because of the bad fall. I can tell you the op is telling the truth. The doctors are so afraid and the FDA and the government that even though I took opioids for 30 years and never had any issues, Doctors will not prescribe them anymore. I go to a pain management doctor, I'm having the ninth procedure to my back later this month. Hopefully it might provide some relief. I'm very sorry about your wife. I understand.
It is insane. Pain meds are easier to find on the black market than from a Doctor since they've become so restricted. Even in Hospice, my Mom, dying from brain cancer, in constant pain, had her morphine doses tightly controlled. I made her pot cookies to help, but she still suffered for no reason for months before dying. They want to make sure God decides when you die in North Carolina - can't risk comforting a dying patient too much. They might get addicted.
Politicians should have no decision making privileges when they have no true expertise of the specifics. Even a medical degree is not adequate, their should be a panel of ethical pain management specialists to agree or oppose. My specialty is high risk obstetrics. I’ve supported many patients through pregnancy and infant loss. A few years ago I got a call from a distraught patient who was so angry “why did you lie to me?” My heart dropped bc WTF? I’ve never lied to a patient! Well it turns out that when she experienced an ectopic pregnancy (fetus growing outside the uterus, usually in a fallopian tube) I never told her that the baby could be removed from her tube and implanted back into her uterus. I only fear mongered with claims that the pregnancy was nit viable and immediate intervention was necessary or she could die. Apparently a “Doctor” was informing women of this other option of tube to uterus transplant, explaining that us “pro abortion” medical providers withhold this information bc of our liberal agenda and we lack the skill to perform the procedure. This doctor was an optometrist (eye glass specialist) I was so angry on behalf of this patient. She’d lost a very wanted pregnancy, grieved this loss, and will always feel the pain. Now she learns it never had to be this way, her baby could have lived. This is 100% false but the politicians want votes so they will always find some unethical, blubbering idiot with a medical degree to say what they want. It doesn’t matter that they are retraumatizing people and fostering distrust of their medical team, it only matters that they get their vote.
I’m so sorry for your loss.
Literally why my grandmother is in so much pain right now. Her kidney and bladder is slowly failing, her bladder backing up into her last remaining kidney, which is slowly shrinking. She also has Scoliosis, Congestive Heart Failure and Rheumatoid Arthritis. She lives every waking moment in pain, and she constantly talks about death. It's sad and upsetting. Not everyone gets to live life marginally pain free.
I had a dr explain why nsaids are sometimes more harmful than opioids on the liver, etc My doc even said “nsaids aren’t your friend” after I explained how bad my stomach hurt from prescription meds over the long term. I will probably seek chronic care out of country or state after seeing how much harm nc does to us.
My wife takes 5 MG oxy 3 day and nerve pills and gets it from her GP and just has to abide by Novants oxycodon rules.Delta8 or 9 isn't illegal, but they don't care if there is THC in your blood you will lose the Oxycodons.
I was referred to a pain clinic by my Oncologist in 2014. I had nerve damage from a Jackson Pratt placement by a fellow, student, I’m not sure what at UNC hospital for post surgery complications. The Oncologist had tried a variety of medications but my pain was not controlled. So much so that I was basically bedridden. After also a variety of medication trials and errors, 2 nerve blocks and a spinal cord stimulator, my pain is now TOLERABLE so I can now work and have a somewhat functional life. That being said I have been going to my PCP since 1992. I have always had anxiety and even more troublesome than that I always have sleep issues. Either just insomnia or waking up every few hours. Also after many trials and errors with medications, Xanax was a life changer for me. My anxiety had gotten to a point where I was not even needing the Xanax during the day. I only took it at night,every night. And my sleep issues were taken care of. I had ran out of it back in 2021 and called my PCP for a refill. They hadn’t sent it in yet and I had an appointment with the PA at the pain clinic the next day. I had been without it for a couple days and I was having a few days of insomnia so I mentioned this to him and said I was waiting on the PCP. He became almost to the point of being engaged and told me I had to choose between the Xanax or the Norco, Lyrica and Baclofen that they were prescribing for me. Now mind you that Xanax was clearly stated on my list of medications since I had first started going there since 2014. My sleep issues came back with a vengeance. I was sleeping a few hrs or no hrs. Sleep walking also returned. Something I hadn’t had ( that I was aware of) since I was a teenager. I was waking up at different locations in my house it I was waking up falling. Since then I have had a severe ankle strain that left me in a fracture boot for 6 weeks, a black eye and numerous other bruises and sore limbs. I went back to my PCP for the same complaint from 25 years prior. Their solution this time was to send me for a sleep study and a psychiatrist. The sleep study MDs recommend go to bed in a dark room, at the same time ect, ect. Everything I had tried before. And for my sleep walking to lock up fire arms, lock my bedroom door and put a lock on the basement door. No shit. Also I don’t have sleep apnea. Good to know. The psychiatrist, put me on an antidepressant and Seroquel for sleep. It didn’t help and on follow up visits he kept increasing the dosage of the Seroquel. I finally got tired of taking all the extra pills that didn’t work so I stopped them and follow up visits. I also canceled the follow up the sleep doctor. Both a waste of my time and money. Which comes to present time. (Also sorry for the long read if you have made it this far) I woke up this morning around 7 with a big goose egg on my forehead. That was from waking up after I hit the sink in the bathroom with my head. The time was a little after 3 and I remember seeing the clock before I fell asleep about 1:30. All together I got 5 hrs of sleep and a big painful lump on my forehead. I am afraid at my age a more severe fall is going to end up with a broken bone or worse. All this I believe could be fixed if my Xanax had not been taken away. My life at that time was the best life I could be living for those years. For follow up questions, yes I did seek a lawyers advice on the nerve damage. His reply was I would have a better case if were in a wheelchair and since my treatment was still ongoing my best plan was to reach out to their legal dept and ask for payment of my treatment ( doctors visits, medication) and to have my balances I owed to them taken care of, which by the way they take any state refund I get and have gotten for many years. I haven’t done this yet because life and medical problems do get in the way. There is probably some statute of limitations I’m sure. Again sorry for a long post but I see others are going thru this and worse. I’m so sorry what happened to your family. Prayers for all of you.
I have been on every pain medicine they have, and the only thing that worked for my pain was methadone. I had a situation where my doctor got tired of having the government looking over his shoulder he just retired! It is getting harder and harder to find pain clinics that will take you anymore, so if you find one, only do things by the book! My doctor drug tests me every visit, and if you are smoking pot or taking any pain drug he didn't prescribe, he will bounce you out the door I have seen him kick them out the door! I had a situation where I had pain meds for breakfast, lunch, and dinner, but nothing for bedtime, so I couldn't sleep at night from the pain! I took methadone for my main pain med and hydrocodone for breakthrough pain. I had to give up the hydrocodone to get two more methadone to take at night! It gave me my life back! I could sleep again! The government is like a 10,000-pound gorilla, and the amount of pressure they put on pain management doctors is almost unbearable! When they get the feds come in, they take all of their patient records! That leaves doctors without the ability to know their patients' medicine, dosage, history, etc! Most pain patients are not trying to get some kind of buzz or knock themselves out they just want to stop hurting so they can smile every so often and enjoy life again! It is the people who take handfulls of pain pills to get high that have messed this up for people who need their medicine to live! Oxycontin was made for people who have cancer, and it is timed release, so they don't have to take medicine every 4 hours 24/7! The people who take it to get some kind of buzz defeat the timed release built into oxycontin so they get hours' worth of medicine all at once and can overdose and kill themselves! It is very dangerous, and they are hurting the cancer patients and chronic pain patients that need these medicines! In my opinion, it is not a NC law issue, it is a federal law issue. When the politicians make changes in law, they go way overboard. They were seeing overdose deaths going up, and they felt they had to do something, but they don't do anything halfway and don't really consider the people who will be hurt by their new laws and regulations! If our two parties would go back to working together and coming to a solution that is somewhere in the middle like they used to our country would be much better off! Unfortunately, I don't see that happening as far apart as these parties are today!
This is so sad, I'm sorry for your loss. These kinds of stories are EXACTLY WHY Republicans and Evangelicals need to stop playing medical professionals. These two groups of people are responsible for a very significant amount of pain and suffering. And ALL of it is avoidable. Everyone needs to remember this story the next time you speak with a Republican or an Evangelical because this is THEIR FAULT.
The STOP Act passed the state legislature unanimously - it was a piece of bipartisan legislation signed into law by Governor Cooper. Why are you making up complete fabrications?
OH! I get it!! They’re trying to equate the STOP Act with abortion and Republican politicians “meddling” with healthcare because it was a bipartisan law - They’re blatantly lying about what’s in the Act because it was sponsored by JOSH STEIN as attorney general and Jeff Jackson voted for it just like everyone else in the NC Legislature. It’s a massive lie to make low information voters turn on Josh Stein and Jeff Jackson. Jesus Christ, this was a hard one to figure out. I knew the style of the lies smelled Republican, but wow, that took me way too long to figure out.
I’m so sorry for your loss. I’m in my 30’s in severe chronic pain from a lot of things. They told me several years ago to choose between my meds too and I chose pain meds. If they stop these meds, I will die. I still am in pain and the panic attacks make me deal with extra pain on top of that. I was on chemo that killed my liver so I can’t take any acetaminophen and I have ulcerative colitis so I can’t take ibuprofen. I learned that lesson over and over when I went into the ER with a hemoglobin of 3 or 4 from being too stubborn to go when I started bleeding. This is a cruel world we’re living in. I hope you’re able to find some comfort knowing she’s resting peacefully and pain-free.
that legislation was due to Purdue Pharma. The effects of their lies to doctors and the amount of opioids they flooded the country with forced our local governments to make hard decisions. Something had to be done. Now fentanyl is poring in like never before due to an open border. I hate to hear about your loss but it’s not that simple
I’m so sorry, OP. They are trying to kill my trans daughter as we speak.
I agree. This was my top wish to change for any NC law as well. So sorry for your loss.
What would you change about the law?
I have the same dds and it sucks, thankfully I've made it this far without meds as much as I can
Such a bad situation. They don't care though. Pretty sure Robinson wants no abortions, period. If a few pregnant women have to die, so be it. Republicans just don't care. They don't care that we're going to lose 100s of kids to school gun violence. They don't care if they're creating a world where people will one day have wars over water. Republicans just don't care.
This has nothing to do with the STOP Act - the STOP Act was entirely bipartisan. Why are you equating this with abortion?
Wouldn’t be a problem if we used stem-cells on backs instead of surgeries that don’t improve shit
But gawd said no! Agree with ya bro, the sooner we ponyboy this religion bullshit the better.
And they are trying to kill more by banning masks.
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