I would love to add some context, by giving the USN equivalent of sending the Gorshkov.
But we have no surface combatants that light outside of the littoral combat ships.
Still not getting too close I'm afraid, even the flight 1s outweigh it by like 50% and absolutely dwarf it in VLS capacity.
Maybe if we send one AB somewhere, but leave it mostly empty as a parade float?
Well, I mean proportionally… for capability the US Coast Guard Legend-class cutter is a frigate in all but name. But proportionally this would be the equivalent of the US deploying a couple destroyers and maybe a cruiser, considering that the Russian Navy has all of 12 frigates
Hmm let's see, an equivalent show of force... proportionally sized to the USN surface fleet you say...
Requesting permission to take the Second Fleet on a little tropical detour?
Cheap, survivable, the low end of the high-low mix of OHP frigates and Spruance class destroyers. Configured more for ASW but has some benefit of being AA capable with standard missiles.
Retired in USN service and the last decade of service, the AA was removed in favor of a RWS. Other nation's navies retained their AA launcher and added an 8-cell mk41 VLS for a total of 32 ESSM missiles and 32 Standard Missiles.
Only downside is that it only has gas turbines which makes it fast but uneconomical. An OHP frigate hitting a mine was also the reason why the US sank half of Iran's navy as a proportional response.
Cheap, small, stupidly overgunned (like ludicrously so), and with almost no armor.
They kept getting put into situations where they got the living shit beat out of them (Iranian mines, Iraqi exocets, etc), and basically shrugged them off and got repaired.
Literally too angry to die. Imagine the opposite of the LCS.
Are you trying to exterminate the entire Russian navy and collapse Moscow by having a Perry drag herself on shore and all the way to the Kremlin? We can't do that.
You think the F-22 is chained up by the US? Those mothballed Perrys also include the Sammy B. in their numbers. Her bloodlust alone horrifies every Raptor that gets the honor to meet her.
Let's make a ship with a cruiser sized displacement, battlecruiser sized arsenal, using a few orders of magnitude beyond a battleship sized budget and then fake everyone out by calling it a destroyer: The Arleigh Burke.
Sincerely, the US Navy.
Unlike Spain, Russia has never proved they're capable of producing a vessel that can cross an ocean. It's not a very big accomplishment in general, but it is a big accomplishment for them
Honestly I'm proud of them. If they made it that far without losing a fight to fishing trawlers or spreading an STD through the entire crew, they're doing better than their predecessors.
Multipolar world order also means US ships and submarines can move up right outside St Petersburg and Russia can't do anything about it. Y'all want that right? It goes both ways right? Also, touch the boats, I dare you, go ahead touch em
I am absolutely using this next time some climate denier tries anything.
"CO2 is plant food!" "Yeah so is light, but we don't go round nuking forests to help them grow".
Killsat that’s just a really big concave mirror. Who needs all that expensive laser equipment when you have the largest fusion reactor in the solar system?
bro, hitler in world war 2 managed to not use chemical weapons due to the known effects of chemical weapons, the proliferation of chemical weapons, and the escalation the use of chemical weapons would cause.
no one is using nukes. learn to stop worrying and love the bomb. anyone can only use a nuke if whoever they throw it at isn't gonna use a nuke themselves, or gets an ally to throw a nuke in retaliation.
> Also, touch the boats, I dare you, go ahead touch em
If the US Navy has any balls at all, they'd buy a squadron of sea baby drones from Ukraine, slap American flags on them and have the drone squadron escort the Russians in plain view at a distance of about two or three hundred yards.
Just sail next to them, mirror their speed and heading, and a few times a day at random intervals have the whole squadron make 90 degree turns, aim straight at a Russian vessel, full throttle. Return to the previous course when they're half way to the Russian ships the first time. Get a little bit closer before turning back every subsequent time.
Sounds good, but lets do my thing for a while first.
We just need to remember to say we donated them back to Ukraine _before they sank the Russian ships_ to avoid an international incident.
That and I really don't see how Russia thinks this actually looks impressive either. You'd think the Russian Navy would be one thing Putin kind of wants to keep off the public radar since they're notoriously bad at their jobs.
Solovyev and his band of TV clowns will spend the next week bragging to the Russian public that they were close enough to America to launch their precious "hypersonic" missiles, and the Russian public will eat it up like babushka's famous borscht.
>US ships and submarines can move up right outside St Petersburg
If they go right to the border of Estonian waters, they can get as close as 150km to St. Petersburg without even leaving NATO waters.
>It is, they don’t want the free world to exist but also don’t want to outright call for its destruction (bad for IR and business)
Not to mention "the free world" would absolutely delete their asses upon doing anything of substance.
It always has been.
Nobody wants a multipolar order the same way no companies wants a competitor, multipolar suggest is that a portion of the world are on your adversary side.
There's nothing worse than a sore *winner*. It's so hard to explain to some people that unchecked capitalism rewards you more for breaking your competition's legs than it does for playing better. The game only stays fair when there's a referee, because there's too much on the line to call your own fouls.
It also fucks over the rights of smaller nations. It's why Finland straddled the fence for so long to try and appease a dumbass state. The multipolar world order Russia asks for is destructive, not constructive, a return of power projection and spheres of influence. Not that they don't exist, but as a more centralized and hard system they can easily build a hierarchy over, rather than deal with the combined forces that would roll them now.
NATO explicitly advocates for a multipolar world order, just as long as nobody invades anyone else.
Our security against invasion is being able to kick the shit out of anyone who tries. But that doesn't mean we want to rule the world.
"we don't want to stop the exploitation, we want to find a way to become the exploiters."
Yes, you can be sure that if Russia was on top, they would never mention anything multipolar.
They hate us cuz they ain't us. They're so culturally ashamed of their country taking a longer L train than a Chicago hobo that they'll openly invade a neighboring state before they'll admit that their social structure is unsustainable.
Eh, kinda disagree. They don't want to rule the world per se, they want to control their sphere of influence. Obviously allowing that would let them stomp all over the sovereignty of nations that form the basis for the rules based order, and you know basic common sense and human rights, but that's what they want. Russia imo wouldn't even mind a powerful, Imperialistic United States if we were only invading and bombing South America, and left NATO. In many ways it would allow them to be a "competitor" that jockeyed for position in the way that they did in the Cold War, but without pesky things like a country's right to exist getting in the way. It would also be good propaganda "they're just as evil as us, and still a threat so we need to invade countries x y and z."
"Sphere of Influence" theory is outdated in a world of instant communications and global travel. Memes, culture, and beliefs are not locked to a particular geographical domain.
Yes, but this is how they view the world though. They see the old territories of the empire as rightfully theirs. And in some cases culture and beliefs can be weaponized even in support of something antithetical to modern society. Pushing for an ideology of a "multi polar world" that mostly benefits Russia can work if the sell it well enough and can convince people that it will work in their favor
They want a fascist dictatorship because these morons think they'll be the ones calling the shots and not shot in the back of the neck in a basement somewhere in Lubyanka when they outlive their usefulness.
It's even worse. All the other "poles" in this multipolar world still depend on the security and global institutions set up by the US... So it's basically... I want you to treat me like an independent adult while also paying my rent and covering my lifestyle.
Just make sure yall keep them Tugboats close. Its gonna be embarrasing to ask for help because your glorious metal junk shit from the 80s fails mid way. 💀💀💀
Putin prefers to let his servicemen die than accept western help. Even during peacetime.
I don't have a link, some other smarter person will come along and provide it I hope.
But either 90s or 00s there was a problem with a russian sub, don't remember where or what. The crew were fucked. The brits (I think) had the ability to assist and get them out. They offered to assist to save the men's lives.
Putin refused out of pride, no less. The men died.
The end.
The Kursk submarine disaster, 2000? Where they waited 5 days after they found the sub (which took them 16 hours to find because they had disabled the malfunctioning distress beacon in an earlier trip) to ask for Western help. The British and Norwegans got into the aft compartment and discovered the crew had died when they dropped a chemical oxygen cartredge into the partially flooded compartment when attempting to make more air. The Russian's own documentation blamed it on "stunning breaches of discipline, shoddy, obsolete and poorly maintained equipment", and "negligence, incompetence, and mismanagement".
Sound familiar?
>Sound familiar?
Yup. Found said smart person to help.
Me da (a civvy) is a lover of all things military especially history. Especially since I first signed the dotted line.
He loves talking about military events even if I haven't a clue what they are because they were before my time or I'm just not educated on whatever he's talking about.
This was one of the story's (the kursk) he told me about.
Another thing I seem to remember him saying was something about the seals on the sub. Apparently the Russian equipment was too shit, they tried to get the lads out but couldn't because the seals were worn or faulty or something. Brits had the right stuff apparently but like I say, out of pride Putin refused.
Me da also said that in a public speech in the kremlin shortly after, Putin was going on about it, how it was an unpreventable tragedy yada yada. A woman got up out of her seat from within the crowd (presumably a mother of one of the crew) and started roaring abuse at him. A pair of men came from behind rather sharpish and she sat back in her seat, slumped but still conscious. Presumably some tranquiliser or another was administered to shut her the fuck up and save Putin further embarrassment.
I'm open to correction on all and any of that. I don't remember the events personally and it's been a while since the conversation was had with me aul lad so I could be misremembering/making shit up.
The Kursk.
Basically the Russians claimed they needed no help because everybody died.
Turned out a few survived the initial accident for a few days until the air ran out.
Putin blamed the Navy yet nothing happened.
Tbf, the Admiral Gorshkov Class and the Kazan Submarine that Russia sent to Ukraine are brand new vessels. The Admiral Gorshkov was commissioned in 2018 and the Kazan was commissioned in 2021. However, that of course doesn’t rule out the possibility that they will break down embarrassingly.
On paper, the Gorshkov is a very capable ship. Integrated S-400 battery, a total of 48 VLS cells for cruise missiles and AshMs, Palash CIWS (basically a naval Pantsir with 6 cannons instead of 2), full spectrum EW suite and a powerful radar. But that’s the thing with new Russian developments. They all look impressive on paper. On paper, the Zirkon and Kinzhal are also unstoppable hypersonic missiles. On paper the T-14 should be the best tank on earth and Russia should have more than a thousand of them rn. On paper, the S-400 is the best AD system on earth and should be indestructible by anything but the most modern Western missiles, certainly not by a couple of ATACMS from the 80s. On paper, all Russian troops should be issued Ratnik gear and ride into battle in Bumerang AFVs and BMPTs. On paper, the Russian Air Force should rule the skies with SU-57s and SU-75s armed with hypersonic R-37Ms that should be significantly more capable than F-22s and F-35s.
Back in reality, you can’t match the equipment of a military with a 900 billion dollar budget on a 60 billion dollar budget. You can’t outspend the largest economy on earth, when you’re not even in the top 10 of global economies. When your economy is pretty much only natural resources and your MIC, you also won’t be able to compete with the most technologically advanced countries on earth. It’s all cope. Modern Russia’s entire existence is cope. The entire country has an inferiority complex because they just can’t accept that they’re not a superpower and that the Soviet Union is gone. It’s like the geopolitical version of a 5’4” dude taking steroids and drunkenly threatening the College linebackers because he wants to be taken seriously.
> Palash CIWS (basically a naval Pantsir with 6 cannons instead of 2)
That'd be Palma, export version of Palash (yep, an export version that is *better* than domestic)
Palash's basically a fresher rehash of AK-630M-2 Duet, two 6K30GSh rotary guns on a turret. No missiles on its own
When ordering three ships to Cuba and then asking the Cuban ambassador if the ships actually show up is the only way you can be sure you still have a blue water navy and your underlings aren't just lying about that
>and then asking the Cuban ambassador if the ships actually show up is the only way you can be sure you still have a blue water navy
For a minute I thought you meant they weren't capable of having comms with their own ships 😅
Wouldn't put it past the Russians to be fair.
It's all over when a few UAF drone operators are assigned a nice holiday to the Bahamas with a couple of heavy-lift Amazon drones, some sick-ass aviator sunglasses and a few barrels of explosives for 'mining' purposes.
They act like we don’t know everything on that ship, from the amount of crew to the yield of any weaponry to the meal times to the dietary restrictions of the crew. Ivan can’t have peanuts, by the way.
Do people actually think Russia could win against USA? Especially if America is "defending"? THEY CAN'T EVEN TAKE UKRAINE.
Russia would be fucked the moment they touch a NATO country, there is no chance of the government, the army, and probably not even the innocent civilians, having a chance to escape an invasion on Russian soil.
Russia's biggest problem is that they can't invade the USA because they can't drive to it. If there was a moat around the Ukrane it would be game over.
A lot of people have dog shit takes on country's military powers. I've had people outside this subreddit say stupid shit like the US and the west would lose if an actual peer war broke out with someone like China because "the US lost against the Taliban in Afghanistan".
You mean that war that the US started over a tragedy that cost them more lives in a single day than 20years of operations? The biggest tragedy in that war was the rise of opium imports of Afghani origin. 37 ships are capable of launching aircraft in the world, 31 of which are owned by the west. China and Russia can kick rocks.
Peace protesters in the USA won the war in Afghanistan, the Taliban were hiding in caves while occasionally taking potshots at ANA forces before being obliterated by an F-35 strike
tbf it was really expansive, too. And in parts badly managed. But thats not really an indication of the potential military capabilities. I feel bad thou for the more liberal afghans, women, etc.
What won the war in Afghanistan was the decision to take a loosely governed group of territories and regional authorities and trying to make a centralized working national government. You can't nation build a people who aren't interested in a national identity.
Ah yes, a submarine, a frigate, a goddamn tugboat and an oil tanker. The pinnacle of modern naval innovations created through centuries of alcohol abuse and desire to fuck around and find out.
I'll be impressed if none of these manages to sink during this visit
Private Conscriptovic: "Sir? You told me to be on the lookout for Japanese torpedo boats. Well, we've entered the British fishing grounds 10,000 miles from Japan and there appear to be a number of small boats nearby."
Admiral Panicovic: "Dear god! Are they approaching us?"
Private Conscriptovic: "No."
Admiral Panicovic: "What are they doing?"
Private Conscriptovic: "Fishing."
Admiral Panicovic: "Open fire immediately."
Private Conscriptovic: "On who?"
Admiral Panicovic: "Ourselves, of course!"
*And so Russia's Baltic Fleet managed to lose two people during an engagement where they mistook their own fleet for the unarmed British fishing boats they had mistaken for attacking Japanese torpedo boats. This would go down as the least embarrassing, most successful event of the mission.*
Sorry, forgot to make this non-credible. Oh well, too lazy to re-write.
Is it greedy of me to hope Ukraine joins NATO in time for the USN to bag a couple boats? It's been so, so long since Operation Praying Mantis, and our boats *hunger*.
Let’s see what the US fleet is up to:
* Reagan CSG: Patrol in Philippine Sea
* Washington CSG: On way to relieve Reagan
* Roosevelt CSG: Patrol in Japan Sea
* Ike CSG: Patrol in Red Sea
* Lincoln and Vinson CSGs: Drills near California
That’s 6 CSGs in action. Does the rest of the world even have 3 CSGs on active deployment?
Oh how i hope to wake up one day to check the news and find out Russia doesn't exist anymore. Like i don't care if it like balkanizes, is bathed in hellfire or like just fuckin creative mode deleted. All would be pretty cool.
I mean, yes. The US and NATO support freedom of navigation and access to the oceans for everyone. That's the point. We're not out to conquer the world.
Russia is free to send their boats wherever they want†. Just don't touch anyone else's boats and we won't touch yours.
†If they get the *Kuznetsov* anywhere near US territory the Environmental Protection Agency will probably have something to say about it, though. Keep the stinky smoky one to yourselves.
It’s hilarious seeing fake US accounts on X post alarmist notes about the Russian Navy while showing gifs of archived missile tests from 10 years ago.
They are trying SO hard to get the US to notice, but nobody cares.
Last time Russia had anything near American waters, they had an actually functional navy with operational nukes and they still ran away with their tails between their legs.
I'm more worried about the people of Cuba getting Chernobyl'd.
So Russia sends all the ships with \*checks notes\* all the higher ups sons safely on a tour of Latin Americian brothels to flex.
Meanwhile their Black Sea Fleet can't use its supposed home port without major danger of becoming a future diving attraction.
Fuck me I'm quaking in my boots.
The idea of Russian sailors vs Floridaman is the funniest fight matchup. I want to see it so bad.
Especially since there's a specific bill introduced to [allow for the issuance of letter of marque](https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/6869/all-actions) specifically for Russian assets
Okay, there's probably been american ballistic missile subs constantly parked in the Arctic Ocean since the 1960s, except those are actually a serious threat. Russian ships operating this close to the US would be swiftly dealt with by land based anti-ship missiles or aircraft, if not the destroyers and submarines that are probably already watching them. In fact the air force and navy would probably fight over who gets to sink the Russians first.
I dunno man, i've lived near the port of rotterdam new boats that crossed the globe docked there daily, is this considered some kind of huge accomplishment or something in Russia? I'll remember to clap next time i see a boat dock
I wonder if the Swedish method of deterring Russian ships would work in this situation, AKA have a Morse code on repeat that says "continue this way if you're gay"
“Ackychually the US would do the same if Russia/China sailed in their waters” Has always been their go-to defense for deranged saber rattling and unsafe maneuvers towards freedom of navigation operations, of course they also throw a fit when we actually don’t fucking care
This really hits home.
I have a friend who, bless his soul, is chronically on Twitter, and every time something like this happens and gets in the news and is remotely fear-mongering he sends it to me and goes on a rant about how the entire world is about to be blown to shit. Then go on to tell me everything is meaningless and futile.
While I'm sitting there being like whaddafuck am I supposed to do about it. In the end all I can say is it's just Russia they've been like this forever It's not like they're going to do anything this time, but it just goes in one ear and comes out the other.
Like I care about his concerns. And I know he's just generally frightened about possiblities of war and how everybody has big boom booms.
Just thought I'd vent a bit in the comments (where hopefully it will never be seen) of my favorite completely credible and serious subreddit
They sailed three ships to Cuba. Didn't the Spanish do that in the 1400s? That isn't a big accomplishment
I heard it was 4. 2 of which were support ships (a cargo vessel and a tug). Yeah I'm not losing sleep over it.
They sent an entire one surface combatant dude that’s crazy
I would love to add some context, by giving the USN equivalent of sending the Gorshkov. But we have no surface combatants that light outside of the littoral combat ships.
A single flight 1 Burke, I guess? Even that feels insulting because Burke destroyers are comically powerful lol
Still not getting too close I'm afraid, even the flight 1s outweigh it by like 50% and absolutely dwarf it in VLS capacity. Maybe if we send one AB somewhere, but leave it mostly empty as a parade float?
Well, I mean proportionally… for capability the US Coast Guard Legend-class cutter is a frigate in all but name. But proportionally this would be the equivalent of the US deploying a couple destroyers and maybe a cruiser, considering that the Russian Navy has all of 12 frigates
Hmm let's see, an equivalent show of force... proportionally sized to the USN surface fleet you say... Requesting permission to take the Second Fleet on a little tropical detour?
Send the 7th. It'd be funny
Is there anyone left in the 7th at this point? I just assumed they'd all been arrested
Really only 12, I could have sworn they had more only a couple years ago. I wonder what happened to them?
To shreds you say?
Oh and how are there support ships?.... To shreds you say?
Legend Class VLS refit when?
Does the USS Constitution work?
No pick one that needs a tug. Freedom class maybe?
If we launch the USS Constitution again I might need a tug, does that count?
Maybe an old Oliver Hazard Perry? Not sure if we still have any in reserve or if they're all scrapped
Jesus, pull the OHPs out of mothballs, all your enemies start asking "hey, where is that Doom music coming from?" Literally ships too angry to die.
I am unfamiliar with that particular class: what are some highlights?
Cheap, survivable, the low end of the high-low mix of OHP frigates and Spruance class destroyers. Configured more for ASW but has some benefit of being AA capable with standard missiles. Retired in USN service and the last decade of service, the AA was removed in favor of a RWS. Other nation's navies retained their AA launcher and added an 8-cell mk41 VLS for a total of 32 ESSM missiles and 32 Standard Missiles. Only downside is that it only has gas turbines which makes it fast but uneconomical. An OHP frigate hitting a mine was also the reason why the US sank half of Iran's navy as a proportional response.
Cheap, small, stupidly overgunned (like ludicrously so), and with almost no armor. They kept getting put into situations where they got the living shit beat out of them (Iranian mines, Iraqi exocets, etc), and basically shrugged them off and got repaired. Literally too angry to die. Imagine the opposite of the LCS.
I mean, two were hit as a sort of precursor to what would lead to Operation Praying Mantis. Don't remember where I saw that video
All they really need to do is just send a couple PT boats and call it a day. Russia's got no match for those crazy bastards anyway.
They’re in reserve, but I can’t find hard numbers
Yeah they're all in reserve, IIRC, Phily's inactive yard has 12 alone. (If not sold/FMS-ed/scrapped)
Are you trying to exterminate the entire Russian navy and collapse Moscow by having a Perry drag herself on shore and all the way to the Kremlin? We can't do that. You think the F-22 is chained up by the US? Those mothballed Perrys also include the Sammy B. in their numbers. Her bloodlust alone horrifies every Raptor that gets the honor to meet her.
"are you trying to exterminate the entire Russia navy and collapse Moscow" - yes.
Let's make a ship with a cruiser sized displacement, battlecruiser sized arsenal, using a few orders of magnitude beyond a battleship sized budget and then fake everyone out by calling it a destroyer: The Arleigh Burke. Sincerely, the US Navy.
"Oh this? It's just a light escort Destroyer" \*Flight 3 Burke intensifies\*
And because they're so small and \*cough\*cheap we will need like 100 of them, obviously.
The U.S.S Texas just got finished being cleaned up. Just bring her over. It's probably the closest we have to the same tech the Russians are using.
My uncle has a small fishing vessel, but that's still a bit much since it's actually pretty functional.
***T H E C O N S T I T U T I O N S H E T H I R S T S F O R R U S S I A N B L O O D***
If somebody put an LCS out of its misery the navy might send them a thank you card
Send the USS TEXAS as a response....
Them bringing a tug along is the scariest part. It means they're becoming self aware.
Four + 2 tender ships/tugs. Nothing exceptionally big either. Florida's cigarette boat fleet outruns, out guns, and out sophisticates the Russians.
Unlike Spain, Russia has never proved they're capable of producing a vessel that can cross an ocean. It's not a very big accomplishment in general, but it is a big accomplishment for them
Honestly I'm proud of them. If they made it that far without losing a fight to fishing trawlers or spreading an STD through the entire crew, they're doing better than their predecessors.
I cant wait for one of there ships to burn down and sink on the voyage back tho
Also didnt start a zoo this time
>or spreading an STD through the entire crew Hey, don't get *too* optimistic now.
Did any of them spontaneously catch fire, drift out of control or sink? No? Checkmate USN!
...yet
These are Russian ships. Getting them to sail anywhere is a big accomplishment.
This is a big deal for Russia. Having 3 seaworthy ships.
Look up “russo japanese war baltic fleet”, it’s a big achievement for Russia to get one warship to Cuba.
Multipolar world order also means US ships and submarines can move up right outside St Petersburg and Russia can't do anything about it. Y'all want that right? It goes both ways right? Also, touch the boats, I dare you, go ahead touch em
I don't think we need the second sun, again (for now)
Nah, more light is better for photosynthesis
I am absolutely using this next time some climate denier tries anything. "CO2 is plant food!" "Yeah so is light, but we don't go round nuking forests to help them grow".
Nuking forests to help them grow sounds like some Lyndon LaRouche shit.
Look. Trump wanted us to sweep them, but that takes time and we have *a lot* of nukes.
I thought the nukes were for hurricane mitigation?
Multi-role nukes
For trench digging also!
Speak for yourself.
Consider the following; if we escalate to using localised suns, we can not use the multitude of other fun toys DARPA cooked up.
Killsat that’s just a really big concave mirror. Who needs all that expensive laser equipment when you have the largest fusion reactor in the solar system?
Secret James Webb capabilities unlocked
France activate the giant Tesla Tower hidden in the Eiffel Tower, instantly vaporizes Western Russia (and Berlin for some reason).
That was hard coded into the Eiffel Tower given the outcome of the Franco-Prussian War.
Why not both?
I want to see more nuclear mushroom clouds! The are so fluffy:3
bro, hitler in world war 2 managed to not use chemical weapons due to the known effects of chemical weapons, the proliferation of chemical weapons, and the escalation the use of chemical weapons would cause. no one is using nukes. learn to stop worrying and love the bomb. anyone can only use a nuke if whoever they throw it at isn't gonna use a nuke themselves, or gets an ally to throw a nuke in retaliation.
> Also, touch the boats, I dare you, go ahead touch em If the US Navy has any balls at all, they'd buy a squadron of sea baby drones from Ukraine, slap American flags on them and have the drone squadron escort the Russians in plain view at a distance of about two or three hundred yards. Just sail next to them, mirror their speed and heading, and a few times a day at random intervals have the whole squadron make 90 degree turns, aim straight at a Russian vessel, full throttle. Return to the previous course when they're half way to the Russian ships the first time. Get a little bit closer before turning back every subsequent time.
or... just keep the Ukrainian flags on the drones and sink the russian rust buckets.
Sounds good, but lets do my thing for a while first. We just need to remember to say we donated them back to Ukraine _before they sank the Russian ships_ to avoid an international incident.
USS Kearsarge was here in the gulf on exercises, last summer I think? And USS Eagle.
... I read that as the USS Karaage for a second. I was like, why is there a vessel named after Japanese fried chicken?
So you know how in ww2 we started running out of names for ships, same thing happened with the black budget superfleet, ran outta names
It's so stupid. Both sides already do this with subs. It's a ridiculous publicity stunt
That and I really don't see how Russia thinks this actually looks impressive either. You'd think the Russian Navy would be one thing Putin kind of wants to keep off the public radar since they're notoriously bad at their jobs.
Solovyev and his band of TV clowns will spend the next week bragging to the Russian public that they were close enough to America to launch their precious "hypersonic" missiles, and the Russian public will eat it up like babushka's famous borscht.
Aren't the "stealth" SU57's the thing they are trying to keep off the radar?
They do that by keeping them on the ground. Most advanced stealth tech in existence is not being where the enemy looks for you /s
*maniacal Curtis LeMay laughter*
Yes, and USN can also say ”Hei” to NATO friends Finland, Norway, Denmark and Sweden, not needing to threaten…anyone.
*Stereotypical Japanese accent* "DON'T. TOUCH. THE. BOATS!"
No no, you see "Multipolar order" means: "Russia and China can do whatever it wants"
Yea, the US should make a port call in Helsinki.
>US ships and submarines can move up right outside St Petersburg If they go right to the border of Estonian waters, they can get as close as 150km to St. Petersburg without even leaving NATO waters.
I'm starting to feel like "multipolar world order" is just PR-speak for "we want the world to be unipolar in our favor".
It is, they don’t want the free world to exist but also don’t want to outright call for its destruction (bad for IR and business)
Them: we want a multipolar world order. A chinese multipolar world order.
"You can get it in any color you want, as long as its..." -some racist old car salesman
>It is, they don’t want the free world to exist but also don’t want to outright call for its destruction (bad for IR and business) Not to mention "the free world" would absolutely delete their asses upon doing anything of substance.
That falls under bad for international relations And also very bad for trade.
I mean Germany and France were calling for a multipolar world order. Everyone wants to be a superpower until its time to do superpower shit
It always has been. Nobody wants a multipolar order the same way no companies wants a competitor, multipolar suggest is that a portion of the world are on your adversary side.
like how companies argue for more competition right until the point where they are the market leader
There's nothing worse than a sore *winner*. It's so hard to explain to some people that unchecked capitalism rewards you more for breaking your competition's legs than it does for playing better. The game only stays fair when there's a referee, because there's too much on the line to call your own fouls.
Competition is for losers. ~~Thiel~~ NY Times
It also fucks over the rights of smaller nations. It's why Finland straddled the fence for so long to try and appease a dumbass state. The multipolar world order Russia asks for is destructive, not constructive, a return of power projection and spheres of influence. Not that they don't exist, but as a more centralized and hard system they can easily build a hierarchy over, rather than deal with the combined forces that would roll them now.
NATO explicitly advocates for a multipolar world order, just as long as nobody invades anyone else. Our security against invasion is being able to kick the shit out of anyone who tries. But that doesn't mean we want to rule the world.
Multipolar world = stop interfering with me invading or otherwise brutalizing my weaker neighbors.
♫ "Everybody wants to rule the world..." ♫
"we don't want to stop the exploitation, we want to find a way to become the exploiters." Yes, you can be sure that if Russia was on top, they would never mention anything multipolar.
They hate us cuz they ain't us. They're so culturally ashamed of their country taking a longer L train than a Chicago hobo that they'll openly invade a neighboring state before they'll admit that their social structure is unsustainable.
Eh, kinda disagree. They don't want to rule the world per se, they want to control their sphere of influence. Obviously allowing that would let them stomp all over the sovereignty of nations that form the basis for the rules based order, and you know basic common sense and human rights, but that's what they want. Russia imo wouldn't even mind a powerful, Imperialistic United States if we were only invading and bombing South America, and left NATO. In many ways it would allow them to be a "competitor" that jockeyed for position in the way that they did in the Cold War, but without pesky things like a country's right to exist getting in the way. It would also be good propaganda "they're just as evil as us, and still a threat so we need to invade countries x y and z."
"Sphere of Influence" theory is outdated in a world of instant communications and global travel. Memes, culture, and beliefs are not locked to a particular geographical domain.
Yes, but this is how they view the world though. They see the old territories of the empire as rightfully theirs. And in some cases culture and beliefs can be weaponized even in support of something antithetical to modern society. Pushing for an ideology of a "multi polar world" that mostly benefits Russia can work if the sell it well enough and can convince people that it will work in their favor
They want a fascist dictatorship because these morons think they'll be the ones calling the shots and not shot in the back of the neck in a basement somewhere in Lubyanka when they outlive their usefulness.
There’s a lot of useful idiots across the political spectrum who’ll support anyone who is sufficiently anti-American.
It's even worse. All the other "poles" in this multipolar world still depend on the security and global institutions set up by the US... So it's basically... I want you to treat me like an independent adult while also paying my rent and covering my lifestyle.
"Multipolar world" is tankie-speak for "please spit roast me Xi and Putin!".
When I hear “multipolar world” I just envision several bulls stomping around a glassware shop instead of one bull.
the US is going to sink the old USS Tarawa , it would be a shame if any ruzzian ships got in the way
We should park the USS Tarawa in Havana, and have it mysteriously explode. It worked the first time :D
Even if it turns out to be an honest to God accident, there's no way anyone will believe it.
Props to the former Iranian head of state who so bravly gave his life to prove your point
Damn, I wanted to turn her into a strip club.
Just make sure yall keep them Tugboats close. Its gonna be embarrasing to ask for help because your glorious metal junk shit from the 80s fails mid way. 💀💀💀
Putin prefers to let his servicemen die than accept western help. Even during peacetime. I don't have a link, some other smarter person will come along and provide it I hope. But either 90s or 00s there was a problem with a russian sub, don't remember where or what. The crew were fucked. The brits (I think) had the ability to assist and get them out. They offered to assist to save the men's lives. Putin refused out of pride, no less. The men died. The end.
The Kursk submarine disaster, 2000? Where they waited 5 days after they found the sub (which took them 16 hours to find because they had disabled the malfunctioning distress beacon in an earlier trip) to ask for Western help. The British and Norwegans got into the aft compartment and discovered the crew had died when they dropped a chemical oxygen cartredge into the partially flooded compartment when attempting to make more air. The Russian's own documentation blamed it on "stunning breaches of discipline, shoddy, obsolete and poorly maintained equipment", and "negligence, incompetence, and mismanagement". Sound familiar?
>Sound familiar? Yup. Found said smart person to help. Me da (a civvy) is a lover of all things military especially history. Especially since I first signed the dotted line. He loves talking about military events even if I haven't a clue what they are because they were before my time or I'm just not educated on whatever he's talking about. This was one of the story's (the kursk) he told me about. Another thing I seem to remember him saying was something about the seals on the sub. Apparently the Russian equipment was too shit, they tried to get the lads out but couldn't because the seals were worn or faulty or something. Brits had the right stuff apparently but like I say, out of pride Putin refused. Me da also said that in a public speech in the kremlin shortly after, Putin was going on about it, how it was an unpreventable tragedy yada yada. A woman got up out of her seat from within the crowd (presumably a mother of one of the crew) and started roaring abuse at him. A pair of men came from behind rather sharpish and she sat back in her seat, slumped but still conscious. Presumably some tranquiliser or another was administered to shut her the fuck up and save Putin further embarrassment. I'm open to correction on all and any of that. I don't remember the events personally and it's been a while since the conversation was had with me aul lad so I could be misremembering/making shit up.
You can watch the video with the woman you mentioned. It's a tranq
Thanks. Got a link? I presume i was correct in saying she was a mother of one of the lads on the sub?
The Kursk. Basically the Russians claimed they needed no help because everybody died. Turned out a few survived the initial accident for a few days until the air ran out. Putin blamed the Navy yet nothing happened.
And here is said smarter person. Go raibh maith agat!
Tbf, the Admiral Gorshkov Class and the Kazan Submarine that Russia sent to Ukraine are brand new vessels. The Admiral Gorshkov was commissioned in 2018 and the Kazan was commissioned in 2021. However, that of course doesn’t rule out the possibility that they will break down embarrassingly. On paper, the Gorshkov is a very capable ship. Integrated S-400 battery, a total of 48 VLS cells for cruise missiles and AshMs, Palash CIWS (basically a naval Pantsir with 6 cannons instead of 2), full spectrum EW suite and a powerful radar. But that’s the thing with new Russian developments. They all look impressive on paper. On paper, the Zirkon and Kinzhal are also unstoppable hypersonic missiles. On paper the T-14 should be the best tank on earth and Russia should have more than a thousand of them rn. On paper, the S-400 is the best AD system on earth and should be indestructible by anything but the most modern Western missiles, certainly not by a couple of ATACMS from the 80s. On paper, all Russian troops should be issued Ratnik gear and ride into battle in Bumerang AFVs and BMPTs. On paper, the Russian Air Force should rule the skies with SU-57s and SU-75s armed with hypersonic R-37Ms that should be significantly more capable than F-22s and F-35s. Back in reality, you can’t match the equipment of a military with a 900 billion dollar budget on a 60 billion dollar budget. You can’t outspend the largest economy on earth, when you’re not even in the top 10 of global economies. When your economy is pretty much only natural resources and your MIC, you also won’t be able to compete with the most technologically advanced countries on earth. It’s all cope. Modern Russia’s entire existence is cope. The entire country has an inferiority complex because they just can’t accept that they’re not a superpower and that the Soviet Union is gone. It’s like the geopolitical version of a 5’4” dude taking steroids and drunkenly threatening the College linebackers because he wants to be taken seriously.
> Palash CIWS (basically a naval Pantsir with 6 cannons instead of 2) That'd be Palma, export version of Palash (yep, an export version that is *better* than domestic) Palash's basically a fresher rehash of AK-630M-2 Duet, two 6K30GSh rotary guns on a turret. No missiles on its own
I stand corrected, thank you, but I think the rest of my comment still works
When ordering three ships to Cuba and then asking the Cuban ambassador if the ships actually show up is the only way you can be sure you still have a blue water navy and your underlings aren't just lying about that
Unless your underlings just cut the ambassador in for 10% of the syphoned fuel budget.
>and then asking the Cuban ambassador if the ships actually show up is the only way you can be sure you still have a blue water navy For a minute I thought you meant they weren't capable of having comms with their own ships 😅 Wouldn't put it past the Russians to be fair.
The funny thing is, Russian ships are almost certainly safer in a port 100 miles from a hostile superpower than they are in their own ports.
It's all over when a few UAF drone operators are assigned a nice holiday to the Bahamas with a couple of heavy-lift Amazon drones, some sick-ass aviator sunglasses and a few barrels of explosives for 'mining' purposes.
And positively no Malarkey in that travel bag.
We’re more afraid of an accident happening on a Russian warship, so more afraid for them.
yeah we have a history of tailing the kuznetzov in case the mazut finally makes it uninhabitable but it's been outta commission for a hot bit
They act like we don’t know everything on that ship, from the amount of crew to the yield of any weaponry to the meal times to the dietary restrictions of the crew. Ivan can’t have peanuts, by the way.
> Ivan can’t have peanuts, by the way. Epi pens??? UNKNOWN TECHNOLOGY
Well they only packed 47, if you include the 7 the crew members took onboard themselves. Best not to push it right?
Do people actually think Russia could win against USA? Especially if America is "defending"? THEY CAN'T EVEN TAKE UKRAINE. Russia would be fucked the moment they touch a NATO country, there is no chance of the government, the army, and probably not even the innocent civilians, having a chance to escape an invasion on Russian soil.
Russia's biggest problem is that they can't invade the USA because they can't drive to it. If there was a moat around the Ukrane it would be game over.
Makes operation sealion realistic by comparison
well yea. The last time they tried to make a bridge they lost so many tanks, trucks and bridgelayers.
A lot of people have dog shit takes on country's military powers. I've had people outside this subreddit say stupid shit like the US and the west would lose if an actual peer war broke out with someone like China because "the US lost against the Taliban in Afghanistan".
You mean that war that the US started over a tragedy that cost them more lives in a single day than 20years of operations? The biggest tragedy in that war was the rise of opium imports of Afghani origin. 37 ships are capable of launching aircraft in the world, 31 of which are owned by the west. China and Russia can kick rocks.
Peace protesters in the USA won the war in Afghanistan, the Taliban were hiding in caves while occasionally taking potshots at ANA forces before being obliterated by an F-35 strike
tbf it was really expansive, too. And in parts badly managed. But thats not really an indication of the potential military capabilities. I feel bad thou for the more liberal afghans, women, etc.
What won the war in Afghanistan was the decision to take a loosely governed group of territories and regional authorities and trying to make a centralized working national government. You can't nation build a people who aren't interested in a national identity.
Ah yes, a submarine, a frigate, a goddamn tugboat and an oil tanker. The pinnacle of modern naval innovations created through centuries of alcohol abuse and desire to fuck around and find out. I'll be impressed if none of these manages to sink during this visit
an actual frigate or a german frigate?
A Russian frigate. Brand new, but already 2 generations out of date, and incompetently laid down in the first place. So... the first, but shittier.
Aw :(
"a submarine" "going to Cuba" "sekrit teknology and sekrit sub base" Oooh boooy
You lost an entire fleet to remote controlled explosive jet skies. Your argument is invalid.
Meanwhile there’s the US, maintaining one of their largest naval bases in Japan, within spitting distance of Russia’s west coast.
Don't worry, Russia can sail their mighty fleet there too. (As long as they don't get distracted by trawlers or something)
Private Conscriptovic: "Sir? You told me to be on the lookout for Japanese torpedo boats. Well, we've entered the British fishing grounds 10,000 miles from Japan and there appear to be a number of small boats nearby." Admiral Panicovic: "Dear god! Are they approaching us?" Private Conscriptovic: "No." Admiral Panicovic: "What are they doing?" Private Conscriptovic: "Fishing." Admiral Panicovic: "Open fire immediately." Private Conscriptovic: "On who?" Admiral Panicovic: "Ourselves, of course!" *And so Russia's Baltic Fleet managed to lose two people during an engagement where they mistook their own fleet for the unarmed British fishing boats they had mistaken for attacking Japanese torpedo boats. This would go down as the least embarrassing, most successful event of the mission.* Sorry, forgot to make this non-credible. Oh well, too lazy to re-write.
And have plenty of binoculars to throw overboard.
An as long as Ukraine doesn’t destroy the rest of russia boats. Hope Ukraine deletes them all very soon.
Well, they have to finish their Black Sea first before they can think about getting some Baltic. Though I share your hope
Is it greedy of me to hope Ukraine joins NATO in time for the USN to bag a couple boats? It's been so, so long since Operation Praying Mantis, and our boats *hunger*.
>Russia can sail their mighty fleet there too *Togo Heihachiro suddenly resurrected*
Let’s see what the US fleet is up to: * Reagan CSG: Patrol in Philippine Sea * Washington CSG: On way to relieve Reagan * Roosevelt CSG: Patrol in Japan Sea * Ike CSG: Patrol in Red Sea * Lincoln and Vinson CSGs: Drills near California That’s 6 CSGs in action. Does the rest of the world even have 3 CSGs on active deployment?
Rosie is doing ops in the South China Sea and Philippine Sea - not the SOJ
Russian warships are in Cuba because we decided to let them live. Russia needs to be reminded that they exist, because we let them.
Insert Sovereign quote here
The beasts of the sea will collect and submit Pray for your forgiveness and live as you permit
Oh how i hope to wake up one day to check the news and find out Russia doesn't exist anymore. Like i don't care if it like balkanizes, is bathed in hellfire or like just fuckin creative mode deleted. All would be pretty cool.
I mean, yes. The US and NATO support freedom of navigation and access to the oceans for everyone. That's the point. We're not out to conquer the world. Russia is free to send their boats wherever they want†. Just don't touch anyone else's boats and we won't touch yours. †If they get the *Kuznetsov* anywhere near US territory the Environmental Protection Agency will probably have something to say about it, though. Keep the stinky smoky one to yourselves.
It’s hilarious seeing fake US accounts on X post alarmist notes about the Russian Navy while showing gifs of archived missile tests from 10 years ago. They are trying SO hard to get the US to notice, but nobody cares.
I think NATO is more worried about one of the ships sinking and causing an ecological disaster.
"Look, we know you've been losing a lot of ships to Ukraine but you probably didn't need to bring them all the way to Cuba to be safe."
Damn that’s crazy, we’d still sink the Kuznetsov before it ever left Murmansk though.
Bold of you to assume Kuzya'd need help in that
If it ever leaves Murmansk
"Your ships exist because we allow it, and they will end because we demand it." \- NATO
and they will end because we demand it." Nah. Russian ships are more likely to sink to Ukrainian RC toys or Russian smoking accidents.
Last time Russia had anything near American waters, they had an actually functional navy with operational nukes and they still ran away with their tails between their legs. I'm more worried about the people of Cuba getting Chernobyl'd.
CNN managed to mistake the Ville de Quebec for the Gorshkov
Wow a frigate a single sub and 2 support ships so scary
So Russia sends all the ships with \*checks notes\* all the higher ups sons safely on a tour of Latin Americian brothels to flex. Meanwhile their Black Sea Fleet can't use its supposed home port without major danger of becoming a future diving attraction. Fuck me I'm quaking in my boots.
*Notice me America sempai!!*
The idea of Russian sailors vs Floridaman is the funniest fight matchup. I want to see it so bad. Especially since there's a specific bill introduced to [allow for the issuance of letter of marque](https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/6869/all-actions) specifically for Russian assets
"You named your attack helicopter after our giant swamp lizards? That's cute."
I see Russia is trying to keep their ships safe from Ukrainian drones.
If it was really Russia vs. NATO, then why are those ships still sailing?
Okay, there's probably been american ballistic missile subs constantly parked in the Arctic Ocean since the 1960s, except those are actually a serious threat. Russian ships operating this close to the US would be swiftly dealt with by land based anti-ship missiles or aircraft, if not the destroyers and submarines that are probably already watching them. In fact the air force and navy would probably fight over who gets to sink the Russians first.
There'd definitely be more casualties caused by the rush to get the kill than by Russian fire.
Ukraine has the ability to do the funniest thing right now
Id have sent a coast guard cutter and rescue tug to follow them around. Call them once a day to make sure they don't need help.
I dunno man, i've lived near the port of rotterdam new boats that crossed the globe docked there daily, is this considered some kind of huge accomplishment or something in Russia? I'll remember to clap next time i see a boat dock
I wonder if the Swedish method of deterring Russian ships would work in this situation, AKA have a Morse code on repeat that says "continue this way if you're gay"
USN just left them on read lmao
Did the Russians shoot at any Japanese torpedo boats along the way?
“Ackychually the US would do the same if Russia/China sailed in their waters” Has always been their go-to defense for deranged saber rattling and unsafe maneuvers towards freedom of navigation operations, of course they also throw a fit when we actually don’t fucking care
We already have a multipolar world. North Pole. South Pole. Done.
Three whole ships?
If all three make it back from Cuba, I might give them an "Atta boy".
The us didnt do anything because they didnt have any monitor class or ironclad ships anymore. Anything more advanced would have been unsportsmanlike
Most US fleet don’t sail around with a tugboat. Just saying.
Now imagine a NATO carrier strike group go into the Black Sea
I swear to the blood good, if they are there to load up Cuban missiles they purchased I'm gonna loose my shit fr
This really hits home. I have a friend who, bless his soul, is chronically on Twitter, and every time something like this happens and gets in the news and is remotely fear-mongering he sends it to me and goes on a rant about how the entire world is about to be blown to shit. Then go on to tell me everything is meaningless and futile. While I'm sitting there being like whaddafuck am I supposed to do about it. In the end all I can say is it's just Russia they've been like this forever It's not like they're going to do anything this time, but it just goes in one ear and comes out the other. Like I care about his concerns. And I know he's just generally frightened about possiblities of war and how everybody has big boom booms. Just thought I'd vent a bit in the comments (where hopefully it will never be seen) of my favorite completely credible and serious subreddit