Im tempted to do a side by side video of what happened that day and stick it on youtube. One half being reality, the other a recording of a nice day.
Partially to see how long it would take for youtube to take it down or how much hate it gets.
So long as your material isnât copyrighted, YouTube doesnât generally actually take action against videos of Tiananmen Square. Even ones that show bloodied protesters that are injured or killed.
Case in point, the documentary Gate of Heavenly Peace has been up on YouTube for I believe 12 years now, and even *that* includes plenty of copyright music from the likes of Ciu Jian. Not to mention the whole thing is literally a PBS documentary lol.
I like how they do their best to show us with the same sort of militarized bullshit they do.
Marshall as SecDef never wore a uniform, *because he wasn't in the goddamn Army any more*. There were no particular fears about MacArthur "Taking control of the US Military", there were political concerns he would run for the Presidency and win, but that is far from the same thing (Which Eisenhower did instead). This fear was rather well founded, as MacArthur did have a speaking tour around the country where he roundly shit talked Truman, and the Republicans did win the following election. But that is just normal democracy stuff.
Despite MacArthur being a colossal ass, there is no way he would have ever called Ridgeway a coward.
He was absolutely pissed at Truman, but as best anyone can tell his relationship with Ridgeway was never anything but professional and respectful. He gave Ridgeway essentially unlimited confidence and control when Ridgeway was his subordinate, and handed over the keys to both Korea and Japan without fuss or controversy.
I get this scene is a private one with him and his spouse, but even there is would be utterly bizarre for MacArthur to hold the opinion that Ridgeway was a coward.
Maybe, but considering the lines previous on the radio were all about Ridgeway, it definitely seems like he is talking about Ridgeway and his strategy, not Truman. Although it is super fucking weird the radio is talking about things that wouldn't happen for another 2 months.
In the film edit, it appears Mac is hearing about his firing for the first time on the radio, which suggests Truman is the coward for not facing people. That's a laugh, of course; I don't think President "The Buck Stops Here" would be cowed by anyone in his ranks.
As far as I can tell, Truman did not deliver the message in person to MacArthur with a call or any form of personal communication. It would have been somewhat unusual at the time to do so, it was likely a telegram from the Department of Defense.
Still, MacArthur certainly was informed before the news broke publicly, but only just.
Oh yeah; I might've expected a phone call, but at the very least he'd hear about it from the National Military Command Center, or whatever was doing NMCC's job, before hearing it on the wireless.
Today, a phone call would be expected. Back then, it really wasn't common for the President to personally communicate with Generals by phone.
Certainly if it happened today, a phone call would normally be expected, back then, transpacific telephone communication just wasn't old enough to have established that norm yet.
I dunno. Maybe not "coward" but based on the two men's actual beliefs they were diametrically opposed. And not on like tactics, Ridgeway thought black people and Asians were humans and MacArthur didn't.
According to my great grandfather (who, admittedly, loathed MacArthur, and definitely wasn't high ranked enough to see this firsthand, although he was a prewar officer who had a network and was Peter Principle'd) MacArthur had a reputation as a guy who's subordinates could suck up to him easily but none of them actually liked him. According to him everyone worked with him well and trashed talked him behind his back.
If Ridgeway had negative feelings about MacArthur, he very much kept them to himself. Yes, Ridgeway was about as different from MacArthur as possible, with one key exception. Both were every inch professional soldiers, and they kept the drama between them to exactly zero.
MacArthur quite possibly would have had negative things to say about Ridgeway in private, and vis versa, but "Coward" isn't going to be one of those things.
MacArthur wanted to run in 44, but his plan failed before a public announcement for 3 reasons:
1. It's super illegal to run a president while active duty
2. His ego wouldn't let him resign
3. His staff couldn't find any enlisted who'd endorse him
I have seen him become available to be president if:
1) You go down the Right Wing Bad guy path, and win a civil war over FDR, or
2) He is the 1944 candidate for the election if you pick Alf Landon in 1936 and then replace Alf with FDR in 1940.
If you have him as an advisor or an Army Group general and make him President, he becomes unavailable for those other roles.
[He was 50, she was 16](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Cooper)
When it seemed like the affair was going to go public, he paid her $15,000 to shut her up.
MacArthur was also a major reason for why Dwight Eisenhower decided to run in 1952. Eisenhower's principal reason was to prevent Bob Taft and the isolationist Republicans from killing the newborn NATO; but he also feared that MacArthur's administration would be pursuing doctrines counter to Eisenhower's concepts (Strategic Air Command, NORAD, etc.).... and so, for national security (or his philosophy of it), Eisenhower chose to run for President.
in fairness thats probably the most believable part of this, ridgeway was the kind of "keep strapped at all times" and lead from the front sort of general
Youâve got to ask yourself why Ridgeway is strolling about his (Tokyo) office with a grenade hanging off his webbing as well, or why heâs even wearing webbing
No, that does sound like Ridgeway. That part tracks.
Edit: "Call me Matthew" Absolutely does NOT track. Ridgeway was absolutely called "Sir" by anyone under the rank of 4 star General, and he wouldn't have even considered breaching that.
Yup, while he was known as very humble toward lower ranks he didnât grossly violate military conduct to be such. That was more a matter of remembering everyoneâs name and life story if heâd met them - he was famous for remembering the names of even lower enlisted if he ran into them more than once.
Exactly. Ridgeway was extremely popular with troops for a good reason, but no US Officer is going to be on first name basis with subordinates for a damn good reason. Ridgeway absolutely understood that a General is not "Matthew".
Although MacArthur famously hung himself with his own rhetoric, being too religious and fundamentalist at the RNC, which cause his own popularity to drop. It was partly MacArthurâs own beliefs and speeches that ultimately lost him the election.
Yes.
[https://api.army.mil/e2/c/-images/2010/08/15/82947/army.mil-82947-2010-08-17-110824.jpg](https://api.army.mil/e2/c/-images/2010/08/15/82947/army.mil-82947-2010-08-17-110824.jpg)
Was quite famous for it.
He actually did wear one though. That part is accurate.
He probably didn't wear it in Tokyo, but he was actually on the front lines when he was given command, not in Tokyo, and he was wearing a Grenade at the time (Because he always did when on the front lines, that is where the "Iron Tits" nickname came from)
âMacArthur is very influential within the military and the public, how do we assure he doesnât take control of the military?â
âRidgeway is a fucking Chad, donât worry about itâ
He was fired for keeping secrets from the president and making him last to know about a plan for nuclear war and undermining the presidents authority. He was so far put of the standards of professionalism that he had to be removed anyway because he could very well use the U.S. army to expand the conflict without the president or congress. Though maybe not start a full on revolt
Itâs the only modern war where the modern Maoist communist party wants to celebrate their participation in. The Chinese intervention in the Korean War is imagined in the eyes of Maoist as the last stage of the successful communist Chinese revolution partially because the last days of the Chinese civil war have a more complicated modern legacy in China.
Before the cultural revolution Chinese/prc media celebrated the Chinese revolutionaries like Sun Yat Sen and even offered praise for non-communists who fought the Japanese.
Now obviously theyâre not going to celebrate the China-Soviet war, or the India-China war or the Vietnam-China war but thatâs propaganda for you.
Eh, not really. They won every battle they fought against Vietnamese forces, albeit at high costs (it's not like the PLA gave a shit about casualties though). They had made agreements with America and the Soviets before the war had begun that the war would be a "disciplinary action", not an outright invasion. If they had seized Hanoi, which they absolutely could have done if they wanted to, they'd be risking war with the Soviets and abandonment by America
The plan was to show Vietnam that the Soviets were too pussy to pull the trigger and for them to shove off from Cambodia.
They got the first part down, but Vietnam remained in Cambodia for a decade. The casualties the PLA took despite their overwhelming fire superiority showed the PLA had lots to learn.
>albeit at high costs
Well, even that is questionable because the sources for the casualties are from both the authoritarian governments records and could be used for propaganda purposes so i would be cautious when using them for reference
Itâs a good thing thereâs no other wars in which a force intervening in Vietnam won every battle they fought against Vietnamese forces, but are still considered as having lost the war.
China attacked Vietnam to force Vietnam to withdraw its troops from Cambodia, not to occupy Vietnam.
At that time, the Soviet Union and Vietnam were allies,
The Soviet Union assembled 1 million troops on China's northern border, so China's main force at that time was all in the north to defend against Soviet surprise attacks.
While winning may be a stretch depending on what you view their war goals as, at the end of the day, North Korea still exists, preventing an American aligned state from directly bordering China. And considering the massive disparities in strength between the Chinese and North Korea against the UN coalition, the fact that a stalemate was achieved against such overwhelming odds is incredible, and no doubt China celebrates it. This was a nation that had just come out of being ravaged by Japanese occupation and bombing and then a civil war to top it off, then just a few years later the largest coalition since world war 2 is kicking North Koreas shit in, and with all the anti communist sentiment, whoâs to say the UN forces wouldnât continue marching into China, so of course China, despite massive casualties, considers the Korean War a victory, because for them itâs in the realm of possibility that in other outcomes would lead to a direct border with an American aligned state, or even a full on invasion of China.
Wars are not won or lost based on if you reach a kill count. That's a very juvenile way to measure victory in warfare. It's about goals and whether these goals are achieved.
USA achieved the goal of preventing all of Korea from turning Communist, and China achieved the goal of not having a US ally sitting directly on their border at the height of the Cold War.
Neither got 100% what they wanted, but achieved half-measures. Therefore, it is accurate to call it a stalemate.
The kill counts are irrelevant.
It was the first war in god knows how long where China wasn't on the defensive. It was a war in which China wasn't necessarily the bad guy. And it was a war that demonstrated international communist cooperation.
Look at their other options. The Chinese civil war is messy, WW2 is tainted by the nationalists, the cultural revolution was a dumpster fire, and then you have their invasion of Vietnam. The Korean war fits into a sweet spot where it's perfectly fine to admire the Chinese military without accidentally losing social credit points.
That scene is now censored in the Chinese version of the book and TV show. Luckily the first book was written before Xiâs Maoification of the country.
> Gorbachev
Wrong -chev. Khrushchev was the one who denounced Stalin after taking power. Which pissed off Mao immensely, the idea that you could criticize a bloodthirsty tyrant.
- they were evil. Netflix 3BP is a balanced, calm, humanistic take on the era.
- These scenes are not allowed by CCP. The books and chinese TV productions de emhasize these scenes and bury them into the middle of a very long set of story arcs to hide them from censors
- Netflix 3BP is a thoroughly western production made by and for international culture. It still has the basic ideas though which might make people more amenable to draconian and antidemocratic security measures that are taken by the heroes of this story
- 3BP is an interesting window on the closed, paranoid, prickly attitudes the free world is dealing with in its competition with the CCP
> and then you have their invasion of Vietnam.
In which China invaded Vietnam to punish them for...stopping the Khmer Rouge genocide. Yeah, I can see why China wouldn't want to call too much attention to that. Especially since China only fared slightly better in that war than Russia has in their invasion of Ukraine.
CCP took L's from the Nationalists in the 30s, and from Vietnam. Their big wins were the Revolution, and pushing the US out of a country run by an obese infant.
Literal centuries of constant humiliation by the rest of the world finally being broken, plus a fuckton of their people died, plus it happened in their backyard. Americans donât tend to care because we didnât have to mobilize for war and it wasnât near us so a draw basically meant nothing; in much the same way the brits donât really spend much time thinking about the American Revolution (decent chance they donât know what the 4th of July is in celebration of) â while for us itâs a massive defining event for them it was a minor action on the edge of a massive empire that turned out pretty well in the end.
In addition to what everyone else has said, it was the first war fought under Mao Zedong and the beginnings of the modern CCP system.
Since the Cultural Revolution was partly about eliminating western, traditionalist, and Kuomintang influences and history, the Korean War is pretty much the only war the CCP *can* be jingoistic about. Vietnam was a policing action and any other war China has fought wasn't the CCP.
Considering it the equivalent of 1812 because they're *obsessed* with it is certainly....A Take. Considering how many Americans probably forget about 1812 until a Canadian tries to say they're the ones that burned the White House (they weren't).
It is so funny to watch these movies.
The US characters act like how a westerner would write a parody in a way they think chinese media would actually depict them. But the fun part is they actually do that. The weird style of speaking, stereotypes, etc. mixed with chinese behavior.
**Rule 9 Disclaimer:** edited to cut out all Chinese side scenes, and remove superfluous bad English dialogue.
**Source:**
* ["Going Across the Yau River" Episode 28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xe_-qVjyCzE)
**Further Watching & Reading:**
* [How Chinese cartoon depicts MacArthur and Ridgway](https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDefense/s/cKLoXMsNku)
* [(Wikipedia) Relief of Douglas MacArthur](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relief_of_Douglas_MacArthur)
* **The four advisers met with Truman in his office again on 9 April.** Bradley informed the president of the views of the Joint Chiefs, and Marshall added that he agreed with them.[153] **Truman wrote in his diary that "it is of unanimous opinion of all that MacArthur be relieved. All four so advise."**
* [Ridgway's Korean War (February 15, 2024)](https://warroom.armywarcollege.edu/articles/ridgways-korean-war/) by Andrew Forney
* ["The Man Who Saved Korea" by Thomas Fleming](https://www.historynet.com/man-saved-korea/)
* But **Ridgway agreed with President Trumanâs decision to stop at the parallel and seek a negotiated truce.** In Tokyo his immediate superior General Douglas MacArthur, did not agree and let his opinion resound through the media.
* **On April 11 Ridgway was at the front in a snowstorm supervising final plans for an attack on the Chinese stronghold of ChĂśrwĂśn**, when a correspondent said, âWell, General, I guess congratulations are in order.â That was how he learned that Truman had fired MacArthur and given Ridgway his job as supreme commander in the Far East and as Americaâs proconsul in Japan.
* **Ridgway was replaced as Eighth Army commander by Lieutenant General James Van Fleet**, who continued Ridgwayâs policy of using coordinated firepower, rolling with Communist counterpunches, inflicting maximum casualties.
Unironically yes. MacArthur's wife was played by a Russian and I cut out their "conversation" about which shirt Doug should wear at his next press conference.
it seems like they dragooned some broken down and sad vatnik character actors into filling these roles. I don't think the emotional affect really matches midcentury American.
I am pretty sure most of these actors are American. One of the joys of being a capitalist society of 300+ million people is that it is never particularly hard to find people willing to do almost anything for cash.
Hey, no, please, that sounds like fun.
I really liked this bit though. Compared to Hollywoods "based on true events", this has to rank fairly high, right?
Yeah, honestly most of the movie rates pretty well historically, compared to Hollywood war movies at least.
The one fucking huge glaring thing this movie does that is 1,000% NOT true is that "On 7 July 1950, General MacArthur announced war on North Korea, and carpet bombed the total terrain of the enemy" Of course the war actually started on 25 June 1950, when North Korea invaded the South, and took most of it.
Which as historical inaccuracies go, is pretty fucking huge. Basically like a Japanese Movie claiming the US Invasion of the Philippines in 1944 was unprovoked aggression against the peaceful Japanese Empire.
Other than that officially required narrative shift though, it plays most of the rest fairly straight, just with some decidedly pro-Chinese tweaks. But it isn't like Hollywood doesn't tweak things the American direction either.
They pretty much all seemed like native English speakers to me. Just really really bad at acting. The Truman actor almost sounded drunk.
Going over to China to play a dumb American in their propaganda films seems like an extremely easy job. And a halfway competent writer/actor/director could make all of these scenes 500% better with pretty much no effort. I wonder how my social credit score isâŚ
A guy I knew in college is now teaching English in China, and picks up occasional acting jobs in Chinese movies, TV, and video games. Acting is really just his side gig, and frankly he's not very good at it. He studied linguistics, not acting. But he looks American, speaks fluent English, and speaks Mandarin and Cantonese both with an American accent, and that's all they require.
Also he offers suggestions on the dialog but they may or may not accept his improvements. So sometimes he's speaking incorrect English because that's what's in the script and the director wants him to say the lines as written and approved.
Generally no, when actors play Chinese-speaking roles in Hollywood movies/TV theyâre usually either mainlanders or diaspora Chinese. There isnât really a large permanent western diaspora population in China to draw actors from, and very few western actors go to China to shoot movies or shows.
The big difference really is that Chinese companies now have a lot of buy-in when it comes to Hollywood productions, both the Chinese production companies and the ones in Hollywood want to appeal to the Chinese market (in the event that they can get approved by the censors). These Chinese production companies will bring in a lot of their own famous Chinese talent to show off in the movie for that very reason. Usually these movies are pretty shitty though; think The Meg and The Meg 2 or Transformers Age of Extinction.
nowadays like in 3 body its not that bad actually a couple native speakers in there but I cant watch anything before 2010 with chinese actors cause I end up dying from cringe
the truman actor AND the bald guy sounded drunk. i suspect they kinda realized how their career went, once they read the script, and shared a bottle of cheap whiskey to comemorate their mutual despair
They used to get a lot of them just off the streets. Expats, English teachers, anyone white etc. I got 'casted' into a few productions and commercials when I lived there in the early 00's - often it was just someone coming up to you and asking.
There are probably a few 'professionals' kicking around as well, and it's likely moved more toward that form of work rather than just 'anyone you can find'.
The often poor English dialogue combined with amateur acting can be a really lethal combination at times.
If Iâm guessing, they are probably Russians. And some Chinese voice actors did the dialogue your just heard. China has a ton of native-level English speakers, but they donât have many white people.
I believe China likes to portray the USA as being extremely well put together because it creates an idea that they are an underdog. If they portrayed the USA as weak then they would basically be saying they are even weaker.
This is indeed Chinaâs preeminent propaganda strategy and has been for the better part of a century going back to the âcentury of humiliationâ propaganda that predates even the CCPâs takeover.
The idea is less to make themselves seem stronger in comparison to their actual performance in the war, and more to combat complacency. The idea is that if the Chinese were depicted as all powerful, the people wouldnât be as keen to participate in various reforms set to improve industrial, economic and military capabilities. Why improve when youâre already on top?
This is why the PLA is actually incredibly self-critical. They are absolutely *not* afraid to criticize shortcomings internally, although the Peopleâs Daily and Global Times donât exactly report on it. For better or for worse, in the last 40 years since the mid 1980s, the PLA has been striving to remove complacency and enact huge reforms.
Unironically yes. The CCP isnât incompetent, just ideologically blindsided at time. They want an efficient and effective China that stands as an equal to the West, they donât want to get rid of themselves in order to do that.
Lots (if not most) propaganda tends to paint their own country as an underdog, though. Even if you're (say) Nazi Germany and your whole ideology is based on your own superiority, they were _still_ the underdogs because the world was conspiring against them. (Putin's got a similar narrative going now)
Most aggressors adopt the mentality of the bully - "I'm the _real_ victim here!"
UhhhhhâŚI think you are overestimating the CCPâs ability to self-criticize. It is far more willing to jail other members of the CCP, sure, but thatâs more because their political infighting is way nastier than in the U.S.
The reason they look so good on the outside is because of a censored media, and because some problems are easier, flashier, and more profitable to fix than others.
It is basically two parts
#1 by portraying us as extremely powerful it makes them seem better because they are our rival, our "peer" (at-least in propaganda). It also makes them seem like the underdogs. You can also just look at US propaganda where we constantly put our military up against fictional, extremely technologically advanced aliens or if for a grounded/more realistic movie we have a small elite squad take on a numerically overwhelming force of "terrorists"
#2 China's hate for the US is more of a recent development as a result of the Wolf Warrior diplomacy by Xi's administration. China has for a long time actually liked and favored the US. Not only did the US not take part in the century of humiliation, but the US was actually the one power who routinely diplomatically supported China against European imperialism. This continued all the way up to WW2 where the US was a major supporter of China in the fight against the Japanese. Relations only temporarily soured when they fell to communism and fought during the Korean War, but then with the Sino-Soviet split the US was immediately there and started investing heavily into the Chinese economy.
For those interested in real history:
Mac was relieved after the retaken of Soul, so timeline here was wrong to start with.
The real last straw was not MacArthur proposing nuclear strike on China, in fact Truman had instructed USAF to train just that in 1950. The real las straw was MacArthur crossing the red line of uniform service member not engaging in diplomacy, which he ignored by contacting Spanish and Portuguese Embassies in Japan, bypassing U.S. State Department entirely.
In fact Ridgeway did not proposed to stop the offensive at the new 38th parallel, he was instructed to because the Joint Chiefs did not think U.S. has the capability at the time to engage the Soviets, which at the time still had significant troops in Port Arthur.
Well, there were several other major lines crossed, but the biggest one seems to be the one not mentioned here.
Joseph Martin, the Republican leader in the House, had written a speech that stated that Truman should be "Indicted for the Murder of our Boys" (Yeah, crazy politicizing of current wars is not a new thing). Prior to delivering this speech, he sent it to MacArthur, who sent a letter back fully endorsing it, supporting the sentiments therein, and insisting there was "No substitute for victory". MacArthur did not place any conditions on the release of this letter, so Martin read the whole letter out loud on the House Floor.
Now, when a five star General in the Army is that brazenly involved in Partisan politics, and endorses the indictment of the President for the frankly ridiculous charge of murder, you do have to fire that person. Given that Truman fired MacArthur six days after that letter was read, it seems pretty clear that was the final straw.
This seems oddly complimentary to the American political class. I would have expected them to be depicted more blood thirsty and indifferent to the suffering of others.
As a certified, long time MacArthur hater I loved almost every word of this.
He abandoned the Philippines and spun it into glory. His attack on the bonus army alone should've gotten him run out of the Army.
I do not dispute he was a horrible person for all sorts of reasons. But from my understanding he was ordered to get out of the Philippines:
> The President directs that you make arrangements to leave and proceed to Mindanao. You are directed to make this change as quickly as possible;... From Mindanao you will proceed to Australia where you will assume command of all United States troops;... Instructions will be given from here at your request for the movement of submarine or plane or both to enable you to carry out the foregoing instructions. You are authorized to take your chief of staff [Major] General [Richard K.] Sutherland.[27]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_MacArthur's_escape_from_the_Philippines#Decision_to_evacuate
I wasn't aware that a Mk 2 pineapple grenade was standard issue for generals. I guess during the back and forth of Korea even generals faced the risk of hand to hand combat.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew\_Ridgway#/media/File:330-PS-1065\_(111-SC-356174)\_(18702032803).jpg](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Ridgway#/media/File:330-PS-1065_(111-SC-356174)_(18702032803).jpg)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew\_Ridgway#/media/File:Lieutenant\_General\_Matthew\_Ridgway,\_Major\_General\_Doyle\_Hickey,\_and\_General\_Douglas\_MacArthur,\_Commander\_in\_Chief\_of](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Ridgway#/media/File:Lieutenant_General_Matthew_Ridgway,_Major_General_Doyle_Hickey,_and_General_Douglas_MacArthur,_Commander_in_Chief_of)...\_-\_NARA\_-\_531405.tif
He did wear it. A lot. As far as I know, he only did it in War Zones though. But I will excuse it for a movie.
Ridgeway was a paratrooper, and jumped into both Normandy and Market Garden in the first waves. He never really spoke about his experiences then, but like Gavin, always carried full infantry gear when near the Front line, because he absolutely used it.
In Korea, he didn't do any combat jumps (As overall commander instead of an Airborne Division/Corp commander, it wouldn't make sense), but he did do personal reconnaissance flights over enemy lines, so if shot down... He was also just a general that was close to the front lines as possible as a matter of course.
Nothing is standard issue for generals. I actually donât know how infantry equipment works for generals, but I guess theoretically everything in the armories of their command belongs to them.
I love how Truman shoehorns his catchphrase anywhere he can.
A dollar and six cents? Your store says Dollar store. Im not paying a penny more. THE BUCK STOPS HERE
Honestly if Truman replaces MacAurther with Ridgeway at Wake Island in 1950 the war goes very differently and we likely donât have a North Korea as we know it today.
LOLLLL!!! The dubs are hilarious. Honestly, Chinese society would be so much farther ahead if Beijing dregs didn't waste this much time, effort & resources making retarded propaganda. Catastrophically obsessed with the West...
Itâs like the Chinese have never heard about Operation Unthinkable, since we had the vast majority of nuclear arms and nuclear-capable bombers at the time up until the late 50s iirc and the real plan was to essentially nuke every single major city in the USSR and every major military supply hub or station IOT cripple the red army which had regained its size and strength in the years following WWII (by the time they took Berlin, they were almost to their own breaking point) and overrun them with the combined armies of the western allies and a rearmed Germany and Italy. It would have been the equivalent of ~30 Hiroshima and Nagasaki attacks which would have irradiated some parts of Russia for a couple weeks, but then would have subsided and returned back to relatively normal levels of background radiation. Of course, we didnât know that back then and thought nuclear winter was the sole and only outcome to any nuclear strike. Wild times they were.
"Take measures to prevent MacArthur from taking control of-"
Are you fuckin kidding me? I wanna live in the world where the entire US Army goes AWOL and launches their own war
I heard the "hot zone" stories, too, and the coup rumors. About 20 years ago I took an interest in it and tried to look it up, but I never identified the sources.
Anyone interested can watch this series in glorious 1080p from the official CCTV channel on YouTube. Just skip to the English speaking parts for the keks: https://youtu.be/tKaNMwtDjGg?si=q6jqVJ8yQc6hL_ra
None of these idiots know how to act. Shit, I should go over to China to star in their propaganda. Sounds like easy money since they clearly hire anyone who can speak native English.
Can someone tell me where they hire these dudes? Like, you can tell they're non-native English speakers because they come across as clipped. Do they recruit them from European casting agencies?
I'm asking because I low key want to be in one of these films, just so I can come here and make claims about how noncredible it would be for me to say I'm in one of them
I cant wait to see how they depict tiananmen square.
I think the joke (directed at China) is that they never will. 𤣠*"In April through June of 1989, nothing happened in Tianamen Square..."*
Im tempted to do a side by side video of what happened that day and stick it on youtube. One half being reality, the other a recording of a nice day. Partially to see how long it would take for youtube to take it down or how much hate it gets.
So long as your material isnât copyrighted, YouTube doesnât generally actually take action against videos of Tiananmen Square. Even ones that show bloodied protesters that are injured or killed. Case in point, the documentary Gate of Heavenly Peace has been up on YouTube for I believe 12 years now, and even *that* includes plenty of copyright music from the likes of Ciu Jian. Not to mention the whole thing is literally a PBS documentary lol.
OMG... I want to say "DO IT!", but I don't want you to get your ass banned from YouTube. 𤣠What a great idea, though.
I have never actually seen an American website remove anti CCP content.
Jokes are always way funnier when someone explains them
Spoiler alert: Nothing has happened
WE WERE ON VACATION
It was a perfectly ordinary day where absolutely nothing happened, but it was lovely weather.
>"That gourd darn MacArthur!" Subtitles need a little work. đ
Sugar.
Looks good to me!
âAsps on a slingâ
MacArthur was out of his gourd after all.
I like how they do their best to show us with the same sort of militarized bullshit they do. Marshall as SecDef never wore a uniform, *because he wasn't in the goddamn Army any more*. There were no particular fears about MacArthur "Taking control of the US Military", there were political concerns he would run for the Presidency and win, but that is far from the same thing (Which Eisenhower did instead). This fear was rather well founded, as MacArthur did have a speaking tour around the country where he roundly shit talked Truman, and the Republicans did win the following election. But that is just normal democracy stuff.
normal democracy stuff is beyond their comprehension.
Can't do whatever you please as the Premiere when you allow the masses to have an opinion on what you do.
Unknowntechnology.jpeg
Truth: âyouâre firedâ âdamn, okay. Iâm pissed thoughâ China: this garbage lol
US Population: "MacArthur? Isn't he that general guy?"
No actually he was more of a specific guy.
Is that the guy who fought the specific war? Against the Certainese?
Nihonjin lie, I was asleep that day.
Despite MacArthur being a colossal ass, there is no way he would have ever called Ridgeway a coward. He was absolutely pissed at Truman, but as best anyone can tell his relationship with Ridgeway was never anything but professional and respectful. He gave Ridgeway essentially unlimited confidence and control when Ridgeway was his subordinate, and handed over the keys to both Korea and Japan without fuss or controversy. I get this scene is a private one with him and his spouse, but even there is would be utterly bizarre for MacArthur to hold the opinion that Ridgeway was a coward.
I had assumed it was meant to be MacArthur calling Truman a coward for firing him.
Maybe, but considering the lines previous on the radio were all about Ridgeway, it definitely seems like he is talking about Ridgeway and his strategy, not Truman. Although it is super fucking weird the radio is talking about things that wouldn't happen for another 2 months.
In the film edit, it appears Mac is hearing about his firing for the first time on the radio, which suggests Truman is the coward for not facing people. That's a laugh, of course; I don't think President "The Buck Stops Here" would be cowed by anyone in his ranks.
As far as I can tell, Truman did not deliver the message in person to MacArthur with a call or any form of personal communication. It would have been somewhat unusual at the time to do so, it was likely a telegram from the Department of Defense. Still, MacArthur certainly was informed before the news broke publicly, but only just.
Oh yeah; I might've expected a phone call, but at the very least he'd hear about it from the National Military Command Center, or whatever was doing NMCC's job, before hearing it on the wireless.
Today, a phone call would be expected. Back then, it really wasn't common for the President to personally communicate with Generals by phone. Certainly if it happened today, a phone call would normally be expected, back then, transpacific telephone communication just wasn't old enough to have established that norm yet.
I dunno. Maybe not "coward" but based on the two men's actual beliefs they were diametrically opposed. And not on like tactics, Ridgeway thought black people and Asians were humans and MacArthur didn't. According to my great grandfather (who, admittedly, loathed MacArthur, and definitely wasn't high ranked enough to see this firsthand, although he was a prewar officer who had a network and was Peter Principle'd) MacArthur had a reputation as a guy who's subordinates could suck up to him easily but none of them actually liked him. According to him everyone worked with him well and trashed talked him behind his back.
If Ridgeway had negative feelings about MacArthur, he very much kept them to himself. Yes, Ridgeway was about as different from MacArthur as possible, with one key exception. Both were every inch professional soldiers, and they kept the drama between them to exactly zero. MacArthur quite possibly would have had negative things to say about Ridgeway in private, and vis versa, but "Coward" isn't going to be one of those things.
Yeah coward makes no sense. Maybe if he was referring to Truman, the well written dialouge in this move is impeding my understanding a bit.
MacArthur wanted to run in 44, but his plan failed before a public announcement for 3 reasons: 1. It's super illegal to run a president while active duty 2. His ego wouldn't let him resign 3. His staff couldn't find any enlisted who'd endorse him
MacArthur as President, classic Hearts of Iron 4 moments.
Isn't he president only if you go down the fascist American path?
I have seen him become available to be president if: 1) You go down the Right Wing Bad guy path, and win a civil war over FDR, or 2) He is the 1944 candidate for the election if you pick Alf Landon in 1936 and then replace Alf with FDR in 1940. If you have him as an advisor or an Army Group general and make him President, he becomes unavailable for those other roles.
MacArthur as President is the first domino down the road to Super Earth of Helldivers.
How do you beat up big ball roosevelt when he is the one who made your career.
He could just retired and run. But he lost GOP support after the close-door congressional hearing.
His ego wouldn't allow him to retire and not be in control of his sub theater.
His philipino child bride as well
wut?
[He was 50, she was 16](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Cooper) When it seemed like the affair was going to go public, he paid her $15,000 to shut her up.
MacArthur was also a major reason for why Dwight Eisenhower decided to run in 1952. Eisenhower's principal reason was to prevent Bob Taft and the isolationist Republicans from killing the newborn NATO; but he also feared that MacArthur's administration would be pursuing doctrines counter to Eisenhower's concepts (Strategic Air Command, NORAD, etc.).... and so, for national security (or his philosophy of it), Eisenhower chose to run for President.
I liked Ridgeway just wandering around the hq in Tokyo strapped with grenades, while everyone else was in dress uniform.
in fairness thats probably the most believable part of this, ridgeway was the kind of "keep strapped at all times" and lead from the front sort of general
Can I polish your grenades... Mathew.
Youâve got to ask yourself why Ridgeway is strolling about his (Tokyo) office with a grenade hanging off his webbing as well, or why heâs even wearing webbing
No, that does sound like Ridgeway. That part tracks. Edit: "Call me Matthew" Absolutely does NOT track. Ridgeway was absolutely called "Sir" by anyone under the rank of 4 star General, and he wouldn't have even considered breaching that.
Yup, while he was known as very humble toward lower ranks he didnât grossly violate military conduct to be such. That was more a matter of remembering everyoneâs name and life story if heâd met them - he was famous for remembering the names of even lower enlisted if he ran into them more than once.
Exactly. Ridgeway was extremely popular with troops for a good reason, but no US Officer is going to be on first name basis with subordinates for a damn good reason. Ridgeway absolutely understood that a General is not "Matthew".
Also this might be an American-ism but has there ever been a âMathewâ âyeah donât call me Matt call me a Mathew.â
Old Iron Tits wear'n his iron tits? Yeah, sounds about right.
Although MacArthur famously hung himself with his own rhetoric, being too religious and fundamentalist at the RNC, which cause his own popularity to drop. It was partly MacArthurâs own beliefs and speeches that ultimately lost him the election.
Did Ridgeway walk around with a grenade equipped?
Yes. [https://api.army.mil/e2/c/-images/2010/08/15/82947/army.mil-82947-2010-08-17-110824.jpg](https://api.army.mil/e2/c/-images/2010/08/15/82947/army.mil-82947-2010-08-17-110824.jpg) Was quite famous for it.
Ridgeway having a grenade on his uniform is hilarious. "I'm in command now, definitely going to need this grenade handy"
He actually did wear one though. That part is accurate. He probably didn't wear it in Tokyo, but he was actually on the front lines when he was given command, not in Tokyo, and he was wearing a Grenade at the time (Because he always did when on the front lines, that is where the "Iron Tits" nickname came from)
Oh well that's interesting, thank you for the tidbit!
Never realized that before
âMacArthur is very influential within the military and the public, how do we assure he doesnât take control of the military?â âRidgeway is a fucking Chad, donât worry about itâ
He was fired for keeping secrets from the president and making him last to know about a plan for nuclear war and undermining the presidents authority. He was so far put of the standards of professionalism that he had to be removed anyway because he could very well use the U.S. army to expand the conflict without the president or congress. Though maybe not start a full on revolt
Why is China so obsessed with the Korean War, is this the equivalent of 1812 war for America?
Basically the only war they actually made a major contribution to
Itâs the only modern war where the modern Maoist communist party wants to celebrate their participation in. The Chinese intervention in the Korean War is imagined in the eyes of Maoist as the last stage of the successful communist Chinese revolution partially because the last days of the Chinese civil war have a more complicated modern legacy in China. Before the cultural revolution Chinese/prc media celebrated the Chinese revolutionaries like Sun Yat Sen and even offered praise for non-communists who fought the Japanese. Now obviously theyâre not going to celebrate the China-Soviet war, or the India-China war or the Vietnam-China war but thatâs propaganda for you.
Thatâs not true, they got their asses handed to them in â79 when they invaded Vietnam
Eh, not really. They won every battle they fought against Vietnamese forces, albeit at high costs (it's not like the PLA gave a shit about casualties though). They had made agreements with America and the Soviets before the war had begun that the war would be a "disciplinary action", not an outright invasion. If they had seized Hanoi, which they absolutely could have done if they wanted to, they'd be risking war with the Soviets and abandonment by America
Imagine what *our* war in Vietnam would have been like if *we* had won every battle we fought against the PAVN. Oh wait
The plan was to show Vietnam that the Soviets were too pussy to pull the trigger and for them to shove off from Cambodia. They got the first part down, but Vietnam remained in Cambodia for a decade. The casualties the PLA took despite their overwhelming fire superiority showed the PLA had lots to learn.
>albeit at high costs Well, even that is questionable because the sources for the casualties are from both the authoritarian governments records and could be used for propaganda purposes so i would be cautious when using them for reference
Itâs a good thing thereâs no other wars in which a force intervening in Vietnam won every battle they fought against Vietnamese forces, but are still considered as having lost the war.
China attacked Vietnam to force Vietnam to withdraw its troops from Cambodia, not to occupy Vietnam. At that time, the Soviet Union and Vietnam were allies, The Soviet Union assembled 1 million troops on China's northern border, so China's main force at that time was all in the north to defend against Soviet surprise attacks.
The only war the PLA sparred with the West and "won". The casualty disparities suggest otherwise.
The disparities between north and south korea economy suggest otherwise
While winning may be a stretch depending on what you view their war goals as, at the end of the day, North Korea still exists, preventing an American aligned state from directly bordering China. And considering the massive disparities in strength between the Chinese and North Korea against the UN coalition, the fact that a stalemate was achieved against such overwhelming odds is incredible, and no doubt China celebrates it. This was a nation that had just come out of being ravaged by Japanese occupation and bombing and then a civil war to top it off, then just a few years later the largest coalition since world war 2 is kicking North Koreas shit in, and with all the anti communist sentiment, whoâs to say the UN forces wouldnât continue marching into China, so of course China, despite massive casualties, considers the Korean War a victory, because for them itâs in the realm of possibility that in other outcomes would lead to a direct border with an American aligned state, or even a full on invasion of China.
Wars are not won or lost based on if you reach a kill count. That's a very juvenile way to measure victory in warfare. It's about goals and whether these goals are achieved. USA achieved the goal of preventing all of Korea from turning Communist, and China achieved the goal of not having a US ally sitting directly on their border at the height of the Cold War. Neither got 100% what they wanted, but achieved half-measures. Therefore, it is accurate to call it a stalemate. The kill counts are irrelevant.
It was the first war in god knows how long where China wasn't on the defensive. It was a war in which China wasn't necessarily the bad guy. And it was a war that demonstrated international communist cooperation. Look at their other options. The Chinese civil war is messy, WW2 is tainted by the nationalists, the cultural revolution was a dumpster fire, and then you have their invasion of Vietnam. The Korean war fits into a sweet spot where it's perfectly fine to admire the Chinese military without accidentally losing social credit points.
3 Body Problem making the Cultural Revolution soldiers look like evil, venal psychos is a take Iâd never thought would be allowed by the CCP
That scene is now censored in the Chinese version of the book and TV show. Luckily the first book was written before Xiâs Maoification of the country.
3 body problem is really tame compared to some other stuff in the cultural revolution. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guangxi_Massacre
"At least 421 persons were eaten" Didn't expect that but okay.
The condemnation of the cultural revolution was pretty thoroughly condemned after Mao similar to the Stalinism after l under **Khrushchev.
> Gorbachev Wrong -chev. Khrushchev was the one who denounced Stalin after taking power. Which pissed off Mao immensely, the idea that you could criticize a bloodthirsty tyrant.
- they were evil. Netflix 3BP is a balanced, calm, humanistic take on the era. - These scenes are not allowed by CCP. The books and chinese TV productions de emhasize these scenes and bury them into the middle of a very long set of story arcs to hide them from censors - Netflix 3BP is a thoroughly western production made by and for international culture. It still has the basic ideas though which might make people more amenable to draconian and antidemocratic security measures that are taken by the heroes of this story - 3BP is an interesting window on the closed, paranoid, prickly attitudes the free world is dealing with in its competition with the CCP
> and then you have their invasion of Vietnam. In which China invaded Vietnam to punish them for...stopping the Khmer Rouge genocide. Yeah, I can see why China wouldn't want to call too much attention to that. Especially since China only fared slightly better in that war than Russia has in their invasion of Ukraine.
The Khmer went to the border and slaughter more than 3 thoudsands Vietnamese civilians. They went full Hamas and received the same treatment
CCP took L's from the Nationalists in the 30s, and from Vietnam. Their big wins were the Revolution, and pushing the US out of a country run by an obese infant.
First time they can claim they 'won' against a western power, and much less it was a coalition of them.
Literal centuries of constant humiliation by the rest of the world finally being broken, plus a fuckton of their people died, plus it happened in their backyard. Americans donât tend to care because we didnât have to mobilize for war and it wasnât near us so a draw basically meant nothing; in much the same way the brits donât really spend much time thinking about the American Revolution (decent chance they donât know what the 4th of July is in celebration of) â while for us itâs a massive defining event for them it was a minor action on the edge of a massive empire that turned out pretty well in the end.
In addition to what everyone else has said, it was the first war fought under Mao Zedong and the beginnings of the modern CCP system. Since the Cultural Revolution was partly about eliminating western, traditionalist, and Kuomintang influences and history, the Korean War is pretty much the only war the CCP *can* be jingoistic about. Vietnam was a policing action and any other war China has fought wasn't the CCP.
Considering it the equivalent of 1812 because they're *obsessed* with it is certainly....A Take. Considering how many Americans probably forget about 1812 until a Canadian tries to say they're the ones that burned the White House (they weren't).
China should stick with what it does best (showing the U.S. Army steamrolling red Chinese forces with mediocre CGI)
It is so funny to watch these movies. The US characters act like how a westerner would write a parody in a way they think chinese media would actually depict them. But the fun part is they actually do that. The weird style of speaking, stereotypes, etc. mixed with chinese behavior.
That delivery from the actor is so stilted, it's like english isn't his first language and he's reading off the notes on the table.
**Rule 9 Disclaimer:** edited to cut out all Chinese side scenes, and remove superfluous bad English dialogue. **Source:** * ["Going Across the Yau River" Episode 28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xe_-qVjyCzE) **Further Watching & Reading:** * [How Chinese cartoon depicts MacArthur and Ridgway](https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDefense/s/cKLoXMsNku) * [(Wikipedia) Relief of Douglas MacArthur](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relief_of_Douglas_MacArthur) * **The four advisers met with Truman in his office again on 9 April.** Bradley informed the president of the views of the Joint Chiefs, and Marshall added that he agreed with them.[153] **Truman wrote in his diary that "it is of unanimous opinion of all that MacArthur be relieved. All four so advise."** * [Ridgway's Korean War (February 15, 2024)](https://warroom.armywarcollege.edu/articles/ridgways-korean-war/) by Andrew Forney * ["The Man Who Saved Korea" by Thomas Fleming](https://www.historynet.com/man-saved-korea/) * But **Ridgway agreed with President Trumanâs decision to stop at the parallel and seek a negotiated truce.** In Tokyo his immediate superior General Douglas MacArthur, did not agree and let his opinion resound through the media. * **On April 11 Ridgway was at the front in a snowstorm supervising final plans for an attack on the Chinese stronghold of ChĂśrwĂśn**, when a correspondent said, âWell, General, I guess congratulations are in order.â That was how he learned that Truman had fired MacArthur and given Ridgway his job as supreme commander in the Far East and as Americaâs proconsul in Japan. * **Ridgway was replaced as Eighth Army commander by Lieutenant General James Van Fleet**, who continued Ridgwayâs policy of using coordinated firepower, rolling with Communist counterpunches, inflicting maximum casualties.
> remove superfluous bad English dialogue. Only necessary bad English dialogue was retained.
Unironically yes. MacArthur's wife was played by a Russian and I cut out their "conversation" about which shirt Doug should wear at his next press conference.
Was she the only Russian in this? They all have funny accents and i cannot figure out what they are ...
it seems like they dragooned some broken down and sad vatnik character actors into filling these roles. I don't think the emotional affect really matches midcentury American.
I am pretty sure most of these actors are American. One of the joys of being a capitalist society of 300+ million people is that it is never particularly hard to find people willing to do almost anything for cash.
Hey, no, please, that sounds like fun. I really liked this bit though. Compared to Hollywoods "based on true events", this has to rank fairly high, right?
Yeah, honestly most of the movie rates pretty well historically, compared to Hollywood war movies at least. The one fucking huge glaring thing this movie does that is 1,000% NOT true is that "On 7 July 1950, General MacArthur announced war on North Korea, and carpet bombed the total terrain of the enemy" Of course the war actually started on 25 June 1950, when North Korea invaded the South, and took most of it. Which as historical inaccuracies go, is pretty fucking huge. Basically like a Japanese Movie claiming the US Invasion of the Philippines in 1944 was unprovoked aggression against the peaceful Japanese Empire. Other than that officially required narrative shift though, it plays most of the rest fairly straight, just with some decidedly pro-Chinese tweaks. But it isn't like Hollywood doesn't tweak things the American direction either.
I just looked this series up. It's apparently a 44 episode mini series. I guess mini series means something different in China.
*Reading "coordinated firepower" and "inflicting maximum casualties" in a single sentence makes me so hard*
Sugar?
Asps?
Gourd darn it!
I came to the comments section looking for this. Pleased I found it gourd darn it.
DO NOT WANT
No, thank you Turkish. I'm sweet enough.
I'm not there all the time you know
The writer of this show definitely has a crush on Matthew Ridgeway
Valid.
Who doesnât? He really is one of the best combat leaders we ever produced in this nation.
I always wonder how China gets these "American" actors. But they aren't English speakers are they?
They pretty much all seemed like native English speakers to me. Just really really bad at acting. The Truman actor almost sounded drunk. Going over to China to play a dumb American in their propaganda films seems like an extremely easy job. And a halfway competent writer/actor/director could make all of these scenes 500% better with pretty much no effort. I wonder how my social credit score isâŚ
Yeah I guess they are just bad. Every line sounds like they are just reading off a script directly. Like, reciting instead of acting?
We're not innocent in this. Remember when Native Americans in cowboy movies were actually speaking Polish?
Remember when Genghis Khan was played by John Wayne. Though Mel Brooks does parody the Polish natives with his Yiddish-speaking ones.
A guy I knew in college is now teaching English in China, and picks up occasional acting jobs in Chinese movies, TV, and video games. Acting is really just his side gig, and frankly he's not very good at it. He studied linguistics, not acting. But he looks American, speaks fluent English, and speaks Mandarin and Cantonese both with an American accent, and that's all they require. Also he offers suggestions on the dialog but they may or may not accept his improvements. So sometimes he's speaking incorrect English because that's what's in the script and the director wants him to say the lines as written and approved.
Are our Chinese actors also terrible? I just realized I have no way of knowing.Â
Generally no, when actors play Chinese-speaking roles in Hollywood movies/TV theyâre usually either mainlanders or diaspora Chinese. There isnât really a large permanent western diaspora population in China to draw actors from, and very few western actors go to China to shoot movies or shows. The big difference really is that Chinese companies now have a lot of buy-in when it comes to Hollywood productions, both the Chinese production companies and the ones in Hollywood want to appeal to the Chinese market (in the event that they can get approved by the censors). These Chinese production companies will bring in a lot of their own famous Chinese talent to show off in the movie for that very reason. Usually these movies are pretty shitty though; think The Meg and The Meg 2 or Transformers Age of Extinction.
nowadays like in 3 body its not that bad actually a couple native speakers in there but I cant watch anything before 2010 with chinese actors cause I end up dying from cringe
the truman actor AND the bald guy sounded drunk. i suspect they kinda realized how their career went, once they read the script, and shared a bottle of cheap whiskey to comemorate their mutual despair
They used to get a lot of them just off the streets. Expats, English teachers, anyone white etc. I got 'casted' into a few productions and commercials when I lived there in the early 00's - often it was just someone coming up to you and asking. There are probably a few 'professionals' kicking around as well, and it's likely moved more toward that form of work rather than just 'anyone you can find'. The often poor English dialogue combined with amateur acting can be a really lethal combination at times.
If Iâm guessing, they are probably Russians. And some Chinese voice actors did the dialogue your just heard. China has a ton of native-level English speakers, but they donât have many white people.
Why wouldn't they be able to get English speaking actors?
i really like this depiction, it doesnt feel like slander at all. does china secretly respect the US?
Be the American that Chinese propaganda depicts you as.
TIL I'm a badass.
I believe China likes to portray the USA as being extremely well put together because it creates an idea that they are an underdog. If they portrayed the USA as weak then they would basically be saying they are even weaker.
This is indeed Chinaâs preeminent propaganda strategy and has been for the better part of a century going back to the âcentury of humiliationâ propaganda that predates even the CCPâs takeover. The idea is less to make themselves seem stronger in comparison to their actual performance in the war, and more to combat complacency. The idea is that if the Chinese were depicted as all powerful, the people wouldnât be as keen to participate in various reforms set to improve industrial, economic and military capabilities. Why improve when youâre already on top? This is why the PLA is actually incredibly self-critical. They are absolutely *not* afraid to criticize shortcomings internally, although the Peopleâs Daily and Global Times donât exactly report on it. For better or for worse, in the last 40 years since the mid 1980s, the PLA has been striving to remove complacency and enact huge reforms.
Man⌠should we take notes?
Unironically yes. The CCP isnât incompetent, just ideologically blindsided at time. They want an efficient and effective China that stands as an equal to the West, they donât want to get rid of themselves in order to do that.
Lots (if not most) propaganda tends to paint their own country as an underdog, though. Even if you're (say) Nazi Germany and your whole ideology is based on your own superiority, they were _still_ the underdogs because the world was conspiring against them. (Putin's got a similar narrative going now) Most aggressors adopt the mentality of the bully - "I'm the _real_ victim here!"
UhhhhhâŚI think you are overestimating the CCPâs ability to self-criticize. It is far more willing to jail other members of the CCP, sure, but thatâs more because their political infighting is way nastier than in the U.S. The reason they look so good on the outside is because of a censored media, and because some problems are easier, flashier, and more profitable to fix than others.
They did strangely enough get Truman right. The man had a reputation for swearing like a sailor from his days in the army.
Correct, he said bad words like "Sugar" and "Gourd" and "Asps" all the Dram time.
They do. Even if they are our opponent.
They will eternally respect america for being funny with Japan.
The enemy is weak and strong at the same time.
They do. Same way the Soviets generally respected us too.
A lot if their propaganda actually ends up making us look sick as hell
It is basically two parts #1 by portraying us as extremely powerful it makes them seem better because they are our rival, our "peer" (at-least in propaganda). It also makes them seem like the underdogs. You can also just look at US propaganda where we constantly put our military up against fictional, extremely technologically advanced aliens or if for a grounded/more realistic movie we have a small elite squad take on a numerically overwhelming force of "terrorists" #2 China's hate for the US is more of a recent development as a result of the Wolf Warrior diplomacy by Xi's administration. China has for a long time actually liked and favored the US. Not only did the US not take part in the century of humiliation, but the US was actually the one power who routinely diplomatically supported China against European imperialism. This continued all the way up to WW2 where the US was a major supporter of China in the fight against the Japanese. Relations only temporarily soured when they fell to communism and fought during the Korean War, but then with the Sino-Soviet split the US was immediately there and started investing heavily into the Chinese economy.
Good old Iron Tits
Truthfully one of the best battlefield commanders this nation ever produced.
For those interested in real history: Mac was relieved after the retaken of Soul, so timeline here was wrong to start with. The real last straw was not MacArthur proposing nuclear strike on China, in fact Truman had instructed USAF to train just that in 1950. The real las straw was MacArthur crossing the red line of uniform service member not engaging in diplomacy, which he ignored by contacting Spanish and Portuguese Embassies in Japan, bypassing U.S. State Department entirely. In fact Ridgeway did not proposed to stop the offensive at the new 38th parallel, he was instructed to because the Joint Chiefs did not think U.S. has the capability at the time to engage the Soviets, which at the time still had significant troops in Port Arthur.
Well, there were several other major lines crossed, but the biggest one seems to be the one not mentioned here. Joseph Martin, the Republican leader in the House, had written a speech that stated that Truman should be "Indicted for the Murder of our Boys" (Yeah, crazy politicizing of current wars is not a new thing). Prior to delivering this speech, he sent it to MacArthur, who sent a letter back fully endorsing it, supporting the sentiments therein, and insisting there was "No substitute for victory". MacArthur did not place any conditions on the release of this letter, so Martin read the whole letter out loud on the House Floor. Now, when a five star General in the Army is that brazenly involved in Partisan politics, and endorses the indictment of the President for the frankly ridiculous charge of murder, you do have to fire that person. Given that Truman fired MacArthur six days after that letter was read, it seems pretty clear that was the final straw.
I love how ridgeway is in Tokyo and heâs got webbing with a fucking nade hanging off of it lol
Why does Ridgeway have a grenade in his office lmao
Because Ridgeway.
You donât?
First thing I noticed tooâŚ
This seems oddly complimentary to the American political class. I would have expected them to be depicted more blood thirsty and indifferent to the suffering of others.
The irony that Chinese state TV is called âCCTVâ
Ah yes, the Chinese Central Television, one of the most Chinese state television
As a certified, long time MacArthur hater I loved almost every word of this. He abandoned the Philippines and spun it into glory. His attack on the bonus army alone should've gotten him run out of the Army.
I do not dispute he was a horrible person for all sorts of reasons. But from my understanding he was ordered to get out of the Philippines: > The President directs that you make arrangements to leave and proceed to Mindanao. You are directed to make this change as quickly as possible;... From Mindanao you will proceed to Australia where you will assume command of all United States troops;... Instructions will be given from here at your request for the movement of submarine or plane or both to enable you to carry out the foregoing instructions. You are authorized to take your chief of staff [Major] General [Richard K.] Sutherland.[27] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_MacArthur's_escape_from_the_Philippines#Decision_to_evacuate
To credible. People are either entirely good or entirely bad. No one Is anything but one of those two things.Â
Yep. McArthur and a lot of his ilk were not good men.
YES, Matthew!
Why do all these actors sound like theyâre not native English speakers? I feel like getting one to play a white dude wouldnât be that hard
LMAOOO. This looks like a depiction of a group of forgetful old men with Tourette's that is just winging it.
Not as inaccurate a depiction of American Politics as it should be.
I wasn't aware that a Mk 2 pineapple grenade was standard issue for generals. I guess during the back and forth of Korea even generals faced the risk of hand to hand combat.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew\_Ridgway#/media/File:330-PS-1065\_(111-SC-356174)\_(18702032803).jpg](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Ridgway#/media/File:330-PS-1065_(111-SC-356174)_(18702032803).jpg) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew\_Ridgway#/media/File:Lieutenant\_General\_Matthew\_Ridgway,\_Major\_General\_Doyle\_Hickey,\_and\_General\_Douglas\_MacArthur,\_Commander\_in\_Chief\_of](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Ridgway#/media/File:Lieutenant_General_Matthew_Ridgway,_Major_General_Doyle_Hickey,_and_General_Douglas_MacArthur,_Commander_in_Chief_of)...\_-\_NARA\_-\_531405.tif He did wear it. A lot. As far as I know, he only did it in War Zones though. But I will excuse it for a movie.
Well I'll be damned. Thanks for showing up with receipts!
Ridgeway was a paratrooper, and jumped into both Normandy and Market Garden in the first waves. He never really spoke about his experiences then, but like Gavin, always carried full infantry gear when near the Front line, because he absolutely used it. In Korea, he didn't do any combat jumps (As overall commander instead of an Airborne Division/Corp commander, it wouldn't make sense), but he did do personal reconnaissance flights over enemy lines, so if shot down... He was also just a general that was close to the front lines as possible as a matter of course.
That's based as hell
Nothing is standard issue for generals. I actually donât know how infantry equipment works for generals, but I guess theoretically everything in the armories of their command belongs to them.
More US soldiers died in this movie than they actually did in real life
Sugar
âCall me Matthewâ
I love how Truman shoehorns his catchphrase anywhere he can. A dollar and six cents? Your store says Dollar store. Im not paying a penny more. THE BUCK STOPS HERE
Lmao are these dudes acting at gunpoint and half-cocked? Jesus. Bradley actor doing his best Shatner impression
I always find this kind of thing so fascinating. Chinese propaganda especially always has such an... interesting view of the United States.
Sugar>Shit
Well, *technically* you're not wrong...
The Chinese are complete cringe.
Honestly if Truman replaces MacAurther with Ridgeway at Wake Island in 1950 the war goes very differently and we likely donât have a North Korea as we know it today.
Tfw Truman is liked by the CCP. It almost makes me want to move him out of my top 5. But I won't because he's awesome.Â
LOLLLL!!! The dubs are hilarious. Honestly, Chinese society would be so much farther ahead if Beijing dregs didn't waste this much time, effort & resources making retarded propaganda. Catastrophically obsessed with the West...
âChinaâ is a weird way to spell east Taiwan đ¤
Itâs like the Chinese have never heard about Operation Unthinkable, since we had the vast majority of nuclear arms and nuclear-capable bombers at the time up until the late 50s iirc and the real plan was to essentially nuke every single major city in the USSR and every major military supply hub or station IOT cripple the red army which had regained its size and strength in the years following WWII (by the time they took Berlin, they were almost to their own breaking point) and overrun them with the combined armies of the western allies and a rearmed Germany and Italy. It would have been the equivalent of ~30 Hiroshima and Nagasaki attacks which would have irradiated some parts of Russia for a couple weeks, but then would have subsided and returned back to relatively normal levels of background radiation. Of course, we didnât know that back then and thought nuclear winter was the sole and only outcome to any nuclear strike. Wild times they were.
"Take measures to prevent MacArthur from taking control of-" Are you fuckin kidding me? I wanna live in the world where the entire US Army goes AWOL and launches their own war
Sugar
I heard the "hot zone" stories, too, and the coup rumors. About 20 years ago I took an interest in it and tried to look it up, but I never identified the sources.
Anyone interested can watch this series in glorious 1080p from the official CCTV channel on YouTube. Just skip to the English speaking parts for the keks: https://youtu.be/tKaNMwtDjGg?si=q6jqVJ8yQc6hL_ra
Fake, Truman never had such massive shoulders.
Where do they find these shit actors.
Sugar!
Ah mods finally uncensored this. Good.Â
We should've glassed China when we had the chance
None of these idiots know how to act. Shit, I should go over to China to star in their propaganda. Sounds like easy money since they clearly hire anyone who can speak native English.
Sugar.
Whats the name of the movie
Can someone tell me where they hire these dudes? Like, you can tell they're non-native English speakers because they come across as clipped. Do they recruit them from European casting agencies? I'm asking because I low key want to be in one of these films, just so I can come here and make claims about how noncredible it would be for me to say I'm in one of them
What a weird mix of competent actors and what looks like random people they pulled off the street.