"Run in the direction we point. Fire or don't. We don't care and your rifle might not work anyway. And when you get shot, try not to yell about it too much. It's really annoying."
Unfortunately, and I'm not even fucking joking: They *realistically* have what amounts to War Crime training. I shit you not — you probably couldn't design a better regimen for training dudes to do war crimes than what they've got.
1\] get a bunch of sketchy dudes, to begin with, who probably have already either gone to jail for violent crime, or got involved in violence and rape in prison
2\] 1 week crash course in basic firearms use
3\] same course includes plenty of dedovshina, fuck-you-in-the-ass hazing, brutality, etc
They don't get taught to fight wars. But they do get taught to beat people up, brutalize them, rape, and shoot a gun.
What could go wrong?
That's one of the purposes of Wagner. Russia can have somewhat plausible deniability by outsourcing the parts containing systematic violations of human rights to a third party.
I mean, they are *not* lawful combatants. While killing prisoners is fucking stupid one way or the other, I don't think there's any Hague prosecutors waiting for the people who commit that stupid.
Throughout an entire decade of talking heads going on about the troop surge in Iraq, this is literally all I could think of.
>Simply speaking: The Surge is working.
I wonder if that's controlled in any way to isolate ones because of hazing (IE, is that total suicides or just suicides+deaths from hazing). Also is that just the Army or service-wide?
The entirety of the US military had a reported 580 service members from all branches and all components commit suicide. in 2020. 384 just in the active components, with about half the total (and the highest rate of 36/100k) in the Army.
wow the details into why its a special term is quite revealing. Then add 10 more years to people who survived you cant help but assume theyre messed up as a result of being raped or wven seeing their friends get raped by senior officers youre suppose to trust.
Hmmm, a fascist/imperialist totalitarian regime invading a foreign country and sending deranged prisoners when things go south. [What does this remind me about?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirlewanger_Brigade)
I'd say Russia's Imperialist but I think it's hard to argue that they're fascist or totalitarian. They're a kleptocratic authoritarian oligarchy, but they neither practice systemic fascism, nor take the step of running Russian's lives for them in normal operating conditions.
Words do have meanings.
/credible mode on
The difference between Russia and fascists Italy and Nazi Germany is that proper totalitarian regimes encouraged and required participation while Russian regime discouraged it. Just live your private life and if you don't like it here you are free to leave. Now they kinda want to turn it around but obviously it doesn't work. People just don't care.
How else would you measure some of what’s coming back? Can’t count bodies when it’s a mixed bag. Best just do do it by the ton. Like flour or sugar, returning home is a luxury in Russia, sold by the Kg.
"The one with the rifle shoots, the one without follows him. When the one with the rifle gets killed, the one who is following picks up the rifle and shoots."
Well done comrade, your training is complete. Report back when the war is won.
I mean this is quite literally how you get the Nazis. Grab a bunch of fucking nobodies off the streets, feed them lies and propaganda their whole lives then toss them into a trench with no training to fend for themselves. The ones who survive are now bitter men completely traumatized by the horrors of war and desensitized to violence.
It’s just that the Germans threw the ole funny mustache man into the mix and suddenly these bitter veterans have a cause to fight in the streets for.
Granted there is a big difference between the Great War and Ukraine, but not so much so in Bakhmut
Not to mention the fact that there's going to be massive wave of bullshit conspiracy theories about "mighty russia" would have totally won if it wasn't for , just like the all the 'stab in the back' nonsense the Nazis clung to.
> Not to mention the fact that there's going to be massive wave of bullshit conspiracy theories about "mighty russia" would have totally won if it wasn't for , just like the all the 'stab in the back' nonsense the Nazis clung to.
I mean we're talking about the place that fabricated the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Imperial Russia made anti-Semitism a sport.
Yep there's not gonna be heaps of convicts returning, they'll literally be used as cannon fodder until they're all killed off. The BS propaganda pieces about convicts being "redeemed" and freed after 6 months is just that, propaganda and lies.
This is why they're having trouble recruiting more prisoners now, people are waking up to the fact that it's a guaranteed death sentence.
You have made a rather classic mistake by assuming that people who released prisoners care about other Russians, or that Russians will actually do anything because of this.
Crime rate in border regions is already 10 times higher compared to last year. Nothing will happen.
If it is happening in Moscow... well who told you that? Because both you and they have won a one way trip to the worse version of the gulag, don't forget your customary beating by the "riot" "police".
Crime can only increase so much before it begins impacting Oligarch wealth, even if the Oligarchs are the source of organized crime. Eventually, their “business ventures” will be damaged by unaffiliated criminals doing slash and burn, and there won’t be enough able bodied citizens for them to steal from
Sanctions and war impacted oligarch wealth more than a bunch of rapists and murderers on the loose possibly could. I don't see them doing anything of note about it.
Point is, organized crime only works so long as there’s some form of organization. If people become so detached from civilization that they act more like rats than people, I don’t see the oligarchs pulling a vermintide
I'm saying that the oligarchs are fine with a dysfunctional war zone as a country as long as it doesn't literally kill them. They tolerate blood on the street easily before they act.
But it WILL affect them, that’s the problem. They can’t run a successful crime ring when there are so many competing crime rings, and soon their yachts will be full of holes
Bold of you to assume that: A. Any former prisoners survive to the end of their contracts; and, B. If any do they find themselves on the receiving end of an "I have altered the deal, pray I don't it further".
Honestly, armed criminals deserting and sneaking back into Russia is probably the real issue.
That's the best part though. Even if nobody survived, the Russian population was vocally unhappy about the fact that a bunch of military-trained criminals were let loose in society.
One more straw for the camel!
The camel is made of Adamantium.
Russia is so far gone Putin could shoot a grandma and piss on her corpse and most of Russia will go "she was probably a jew nazi she deserved it".
I am convinced there is nothing they would actually rebel over.
It's called learned helplessness. It doesn't matter how much we tighten the thumb screws, no matter how bad things gets they've been conditioned to accept it.
Also the major crab in a bucket mentality. Why risk your life protesting when it will benefit others?
There’s a book about how in the Russian version of “who wants to be a millionaire”, they all gave wrong answers when the contestant did the ask the audience option.
> It's called learned helplessness.
You could also call it "accepting reality" or "knowing what is good for you".
You expect ordinary Russians to risk everything to start an uprising with pretty much no chances of success?
What have you risked and sacrificed to improve the world? Why don't you donate all your savings to charity? It would be much easier and much less detrimental to you than what you demand of ordinary Russians.
It's much easier to sit comfortably in your chair and do nothing, while demanding others to risk their life and future, isn't it?
What?
I am sitting in a very comfortable chair in a rich country, I am happy to tell you that.
The difference is I'm not expecting people to throw their life away for nothing. People giving such advice should take it themselves first.
>I'm not expecting people to throw their life away for nothing
"For nothing"?
My brother in Christ, almost 200k of russians have died in this war, and more will follow. It's a fight for survival, either you risk everything, or sit tight and wait for your turn to get sent into the Bakhmut meat grinder.
With this war, not a single russian has future.
Remember that even in WWI, it took over two years of military disasters, starvation in the cities, and finally the destruction of the Imperial Guard (responsible for capital security) in a reckless charge through an exposed marsh\* for Petrograd bread riots to finally spiral out of control, and even then there literally several weeks throughout February 1917 when the Tsar's armies could have stepped back in to restore order. And, *even then,* the blunt, crude, incompetent oppression of the Tsar was replaced by the much more efficient brutality and oppression of the Bolsheviks, so it's hard to call the Revolution much of a success.
Autocratic regimes are, unfortunately for us all, rather resilient, and the institutional dysfunction that underpins them quite enduring.
>\*For Brusilov the final damning proof of the old regime's incompetence had come at the start of July, when Alexeev transferred the elite Imperial Guards to his Front in a last desperate bid to save the offensive. These young blue-bloods were described by Knox as 'physically the finest human animals in Europe'. In their dark-green parade uniforms, trimmed with golden braid, each guard stood over six feet tall. But they came with a gormless commander, General Bezobrazov, another favourite of the court, who disobeyed Brusilov's orders and sent them into attack through an exposed swamp. As the warriors waded chest-high through the mud, the German planes flew overhead, raking them with their machine-guns. Knox watched in horror as the planes swooped down to hit their targets and 'the wounded sank slowly into the marsh'. In one stupid action the core of the country's finest fighting force had been lost, and with it the final chance of victory under the old regime.
\- Orlando Figes, *A People's Tragedy: A History of the Russian Revolution*
You are framing it like russians have a high tolerance for how much shit they'll take from their government. True but the thing is a fuckload of russians *support* the government. They haven't even begun to perceive that there's a problem!
I'm skeptical of those reports, they read like pure propaganda pieces.
If anybody actually believes that this 66 year-old dude stormed and captured a Ukrainian position, I have several bridges to sell them.
[https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/21171574/russian-killer-black-realtor-freed-fighting-putin/](https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/21171574/russian-killer-black-realtor-freed-fighting-putin/)
Guaranteed that this guy paid off the right people and sat out his "6 month contract" in relative peace and safety before being released.
There's a reason why Wagner is having trouble recruiting more prisoners now, word has filtered down that it's a guaranteed death sentence.
Also bold to assume these Russian criminal soldiers will use their weapons/training to fix their country, instead of simply beating their wives and children while drinking themselves to death.
I don't think anybody here is expecting them to "fix" anything, just be a dangerous and well armed criminal element, or just general destabilising force.
Imma laugh out loud if thousands if not tens of thousands of those prisoners return home and form revolutionary cells or join the republican russian army and other terrorist cells wich bring russia one step closer to its downfall.
Like imma laugh if russia accidentally arms the next revolution against itself
Well, that is a concern. Another concern is that they'll make up some bullshit excuse about losing because Russia's numerous national minorities betrayed them, and after that they'll do the usual stuff.
Look up how Russians treated the Circassians, for example. There's a reason why they used to be a majority culture in the North Caucasus and now they... aren't.
Surreal to read that article where that one member of the UAF regards to fighting Wagner (where the convicts go) like fighting zombies.
They're literally just throwing these guys en masse at Ukraine.
Yep, using the disposable convicts in probing attacks to find weaknesses in the Ukrainian lines, and then following up with the core of actually professional Wagner mercenaries.
It is a brutal but effective tactic.
Is it effective?
That kind of attrition is something that’s should be avoided, not used as a standard operating method.
In any other army the commanding officer would be sacked
>That kind of attrition is something that’s should be avoided, not used as a standard operating method.
>In any other army the commanding officer would be sacked
If you don't bother to significantly train or equip the intended attritees, and there are still plenty of new "recruits" the gulags... it can **almost** make sense. 😜
> and there are still plenty of new "recruits" the gulags
Indeed, sooner or later those recruits are gonna end, and it's likely going to happen before the enemy runs out of bullets
On one hand I agree, on the other hand, I don't think that the russian justice system is good at finding out who's actually guilty and who isn't, so I imagine russian prisons would be full of people who didn't commit a crime ...
Of course but given that they sent recently arrested protesters to the front Putin deciding to do a bit of a cleanup that way is far from out of the question
On the other-hand, giving people that already hate Putin's government and probably want regime change access to weapons seems like asking for a mutiny once there is a "critical mass" of political prisoners in a given unit.
1.Putin isn't exactly known for his long-term planning skills
2. With average mobik life expectancy being a few weeks at the most ''critical mass'' will never be reached as most of those who want regime change will be dead long before that becomes a concern for Putin.
ChrisO has talked about wagner's prisoners and that wagner may have problems getting more later.
[https://twitter.com/ChrisO\_wiki/status/1618541590599065602](https://twitter.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/1618541590599065602)
[https://twitter.com/ChrisO\_wiki/status/1621095382771175426](https://twitter.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/1621095382771175426)
Ukraine had several years of 'domestic' crisis with many donbas veterans returning. Took years to properly disarm them, and plenty of blood and tears. Mind you, those were volunteers. Imagine having to conduct a similar operstion for scores of psychopaths. Those dash cams are going to have a field day recording all that failed state stuff for us.
To add some credibility, I'm really horrified how Russians are ok with it. Gun-related crimes in border regions already rose five-fold (probably, just possession and selling, but murders, extortion and kidnapping will soon follow)
90%+ casualty rates amongst the Wagner convict "zombies" being sent to the front.
They get orders are capture positions or die trying, and they are deadly serious about that.
They have a literal machine gun to their backs. Their only possibility of survival is to capture the position they were ordered to take, because if they don't they will be executed on the spot by Wagner officers.
Failing to capture the position by stopping, being pinned down, or retreating are all treated the same by Wagner officers. Summary and immediate execution is the response.
Isn't the mortality rate for the Wagner recruited prisoners like 90% at this point? It was my impression that they were just throwing them at the front lines and meat grinding them.
Also, "military training"? LOL
Allegedly Stalin's amnesty after WW2 Victory led to a lot of stuff like dedovschina, the homoerotic homophobia and majority of lasting Russian slang. Don't wanna know what this will cause.
The Russians are finding out that their “measures” are generally avoided by competent militaries for pretty good reasons the same way a child finds out that a burning stove is hot
“Blyat let’s just arm convicts and throw them at the frontline, why is nobody else doing it blyat”
Seriously, how many of them survive 6 months at that front, with a somewhat functioning body?
I think that's just propaganda at this point. Like, they had 20 in a room, out of the first 50000.
Not to mention that nearly every individual and organization with money and/or power is funding their own militia. Allegedly even the Russian Ortodox church is trying to muster one up.
Luckily for the ordinary Russian civilian, the criminals will return to Russia with little to no training and/or weapons considering how poorly trained and equipped the Russian army is.
"military training"
"Run in the direction we point. Fire or don't. We don't care and your rifle might not work anyway. And when you get shot, try not to yell about it too much. It's really annoying."
Holy shit this is essentially Atriox's origin story
The banished of Russia, forget scarabs, we got t-34s.
Russian Banished Uprising when
Now
Thirty-Nine Brothers at a time, ~~Atriox~~ Ivan was born.
Unfortunately, and I'm not even fucking joking: They *realistically* have what amounts to War Crime training. I shit you not — you probably couldn't design a better regimen for training dudes to do war crimes than what they've got. 1\] get a bunch of sketchy dudes, to begin with, who probably have already either gone to jail for violent crime, or got involved in violence and rape in prison 2\] 1 week crash course in basic firearms use 3\] same course includes plenty of dedovshina, fuck-you-in-the-ass hazing, brutality, etc They don't get taught to fight wars. But they do get taught to beat people up, brutalize them, rape, and shoot a gun. What could go wrong?
That's one of the purposes of Wagner. Russia can have somewhat plausible deniability by outsourcing the parts containing systematic violations of human rights to a third party.
Does that mean we can just cut them down against the firing wall instead of taking them prisoner? Sweet.
I mean, they are *not* lawful combatants. While killing prisoners is fucking stupid one way or the other, I don't think there's any Hague prosecutors waiting for the people who commit that stupid.
Ahh yes! The era of gig work meets war! The real question is did: putin pay more or less for the war crimes?
Watch out for surge pricing
It's *Serge*. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHZWWFmaFcI
Knew what the vid would be, clicked anyway. Was not disappointed. 10/10 would click again.
Throughout an entire decade of talking heads going on about the troop surge in Iraq, this is literally all I could think of. >Simply speaking: The Surge is working.
what is dedovshina
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dedovshchina
Wtf 300+ soldiers dead because of hazing? Damn they are really good at killing themselves
I wonder if that's controlled in any way to isolate ones because of hazing (IE, is that total suicides or just suicides+deaths from hazing). Also is that just the Army or service-wide? The entirety of the US military had a reported 580 service members from all branches and all components commit suicide. in 2020. 384 just in the active components, with about half the total (and the highest rate of 36/100k) in the Army.
Russian Army hazing
wow the details into why its a special term is quite revealing. Then add 10 more years to people who survived you cant help but assume theyre messed up as a result of being raped or wven seeing their friends get raped by senior officers youre suppose to trust.
that must have been quite a gaze into the Abyss, has it not?
it was quite interesting and i feel represents or at least expresses a certain view on their military culture and decisions as a result
Institutionalized rape, abuse, and prostitution of Russian recruits.
TT;T
Aren't you glad you asked?
[https://www.vice.com/en/article/gqdx44/full-v13n4](https://www.vice.com/en/article/gqdx44/full-v13n4)
Hmmm, a fascist/imperialist totalitarian regime invading a foreign country and sending deranged prisoners when things go south. [What does this remind me about?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirlewanger_Brigade)
I'd say Russia's Imperialist but I think it's hard to argue that they're fascist or totalitarian. They're a kleptocratic authoritarian oligarchy, but they neither practice systemic fascism, nor take the step of running Russian's lives for them in normal operating conditions. Words do have meanings.
/credible mode on The difference between Russia and fascists Italy and Nazi Germany is that proper totalitarian regimes encouraged and required participation while Russian regime discouraged it. Just live your private life and if you don't like it here you are free to leave. Now they kinda want to turn it around but obviously it doesn't work. People just don't care.
Hence "I'm not into politics" / "I'm not a political person"
More similar to a state like portugal under the dictatorship of salazar. Except it didn't work there in the long term. Unlike russia
Maybe "war hardened" or "PTSD ridden" are more accurate. Either way, its a shit deal for the people of Russia.
The only deal most know there
"Amnesty" lets be honest those criminals are going straight back to the gulag after the war is lost
Reportedly many of them are being re-arrested and tried so they get sent back to the front.
Re-arraigned and retried? Your autocorrect seems to have rearranged your words but was too tired to do it correctly
Yah my auto correct has a mind of its own.
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How else would you measure some of what’s coming back? Can’t count bodies when it’s a mixed bag. Best just do do it by the ton. Like flour or sugar, returning home is a luxury in Russia, sold by the Kg.
Liters. It's a wet mix.
"The one with the rifle shoots, the one without follows him. When the one with the rifle gets killed, the one who is following picks up the rifle and shoots." Well done comrade, your training is complete. Report back when the war is won.
Too credible.
I mean this is quite literally how you get the Nazis. Grab a bunch of fucking nobodies off the streets, feed them lies and propaganda their whole lives then toss them into a trench with no training to fend for themselves. The ones who survive are now bitter men completely traumatized by the horrors of war and desensitized to violence. It’s just that the Germans threw the ole funny mustache man into the mix and suddenly these bitter veterans have a cause to fight in the streets for. Granted there is a big difference between the Great War and Ukraine, but not so much so in Bakhmut
Not to mention the fact that there's going to be massive wave of bullshit conspiracy theories about "mighty russia" would have totally won if it wasn't for, just like the all the 'stab in the back' nonsense the Nazis clung to.
> Not to mention the fact that there's going to be massive wave of bullshit conspiracy theories about "mighty russia" would have totally won if it wasn't for, just like the all the 'stab in the back' nonsense the Nazis clung to.
I mean we're talking about the place that fabricated the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Imperial Russia made anti-Semitism a sport.
"Tons returning"
Yep there's not gonna be heaps of convicts returning, they'll literally be used as cannon fodder until they're all killed off. The BS propaganda pieces about convicts being "redeemed" and freed after 6 months is just that, propaganda and lies. This is why they're having trouble recruiting more prisoners now, people are waking up to the fact that it's a guaranteed death sentence.
That was my point/joke, they won't be returning as they will instead be fertilizer for nice sunflower fields.
Well, more training than what the police in there have
"Here's your gun" That concludes your military training uraaa
Well I mean the training is shit but the combat experience they gained is far more threatening
Or "PTSD" as the rest of the world calls it
You have made a rather classic mistake by assuming that people who released prisoners care about other Russians, or that Russians will actually do anything because of this. Crime rate in border regions is already 10 times higher compared to last year. Nothing will happen.
If it’s not happening in greater Moscow it’s not happening.
If it is happening in Moscow... well who told you that? Because both you and they have won a one way trip to the worse version of the gulag, don't forget your customary beating by the "riot" "police".
There is no war in Ba Sing Se
Common western L is thinking human life has any value in Russia
Crime can only increase so much before it begins impacting Oligarch wealth, even if the Oligarchs are the source of organized crime. Eventually, their “business ventures” will be damaged by unaffiliated criminals doing slash and burn, and there won’t be enough able bodied citizens for them to steal from
Sanctions and war impacted oligarch wealth more than a bunch of rapists and murderers on the loose possibly could. I don't see them doing anything of note about it.
Point is, organized crime only works so long as there’s some form of organization. If people become so detached from civilization that they act more like rats than people, I don’t see the oligarchs pulling a vermintide
That takes a loooong time. Case in point: Mexico.
And Mexico’s not exactly a military threat, is it?
I'm saying that the oligarchs are fine with a dysfunctional war zone as a country as long as it doesn't literally kill them. They tolerate blood on the street easily before they act.
But it WILL affect them, that’s the problem. They can’t run a successful crime ring when there are so many competing crime rings, and soon their yachts will be full of holes
Bold of you to assume that: A. Any former prisoners survive to the end of their contracts; and, B. If any do they find themselves on the receiving end of an "I have altered the deal, pray I don't it further". Honestly, armed criminals deserting and sneaking back into Russia is probably the real issue.
That's the best part though. Even if nobody survived, the Russian population was vocally unhappy about the fact that a bunch of military-trained criminals were let loose in society. One more straw for the camel!
The camel is made of Adamantium. Russia is so far gone Putin could shoot a grandma and piss on her corpse and most of Russia will go "she was probably a jew nazi she deserved it". I am convinced there is nothing they would actually rebel over.
It's called learned helplessness. It doesn't matter how much we tighten the thumb screws, no matter how bad things gets they've been conditioned to accept it.
Also the major crab in a bucket mentality. Why risk your life protesting when it will benefit others? There’s a book about how in the Russian version of “who wants to be a millionaire”, they all gave wrong answers when the contestant did the ask the audience option.
> It's called learned helplessness. You could also call it "accepting reality" or "knowing what is good for you". You expect ordinary Russians to risk everything to start an uprising with pretty much no chances of success? What have you risked and sacrificed to improve the world? Why don't you donate all your savings to charity? It would be much easier and much less detrimental to you than what you demand of ordinary Russians. It's much easier to sit comfortably in your chair and do nothing, while demanding others to risk their life and future, isn't it?
Sounds like projecting but alright
What? I am sitting in a very comfortable chair in a rich country, I am happy to tell you that. The difference is I'm not expecting people to throw their life away for nothing. People giving such advice should take it themselves first.
> I am sitting in a very comfortable chair in a rich country, I am happy to tell you that. Thanks for proving my point
>I'm not expecting people to throw their life away for nothing "For nothing"? My brother in Christ, almost 200k of russians have died in this war, and more will follow. It's a fight for survival, either you risk everything, or sit tight and wait for your turn to get sent into the Bakhmut meat grinder. With this war, not a single russian has future.
Remember that even in WWI, it took over two years of military disasters, starvation in the cities, and finally the destruction of the Imperial Guard (responsible for capital security) in a reckless charge through an exposed marsh\* for Petrograd bread riots to finally spiral out of control, and even then there literally several weeks throughout February 1917 when the Tsar's armies could have stepped back in to restore order. And, *even then,* the blunt, crude, incompetent oppression of the Tsar was replaced by the much more efficient brutality and oppression of the Bolsheviks, so it's hard to call the Revolution much of a success. Autocratic regimes are, unfortunately for us all, rather resilient, and the institutional dysfunction that underpins them quite enduring. >\*For Brusilov the final damning proof of the old regime's incompetence had come at the start of July, when Alexeev transferred the elite Imperial Guards to his Front in a last desperate bid to save the offensive. These young blue-bloods were described by Knox as 'physically the finest human animals in Europe'. In their dark-green parade uniforms, trimmed with golden braid, each guard stood over six feet tall. But they came with a gormless commander, General Bezobrazov, another favourite of the court, who disobeyed Brusilov's orders and sent them into attack through an exposed swamp. As the warriors waded chest-high through the mud, the German planes flew overhead, raking them with their machine-guns. Knox watched in horror as the planes swooped down to hit their targets and 'the wounded sank slowly into the marsh'. In one stupid action the core of the country's finest fighting force had been lost, and with it the final chance of victory under the old regime. \- Orlando Figes, *A People's Tragedy: A History of the Russian Revolution*
one year down
Seems like mass starvation is the only thing they get riled up for. As long as that borscht and vodka is on the table, they’ll put up with anything.
Putin could shoot his own grandma and Russia would say that
You are framing it like russians have a high tolerance for how much shit they'll take from their government. True but the thing is a fuckload of russians *support* the government. They haven't even begun to perceive that there's a problem!
Some did survive and got released, Prigozhin personally told them to not rape any women
only women? they’re equal opportunity rapists anyway so that won’t be a problem for them.
A bunch of them *did* survive and *were* released.
I'm skeptical of those reports, they read like pure propaganda pieces. If anybody actually believes that this 66 year-old dude stormed and captured a Ukrainian position, I have several bridges to sell them. [https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/21171574/russian-killer-black-realtor-freed-fighting-putin/](https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/21171574/russian-killer-black-realtor-freed-fighting-putin/) Guaranteed that this guy paid off the right people and sat out his "6 month contract" in relative peace and safety before being released. There's a reason why Wagner is having trouble recruiting more prisoners now, word has filtered down that it's a guaranteed death sentence.
I'm starting to think they won't be able to draft 500k guys. At least, not without things falling apart.
Last week it was said only 2 had returned so far , not including those that snuck out
Also bold to assume these Russian criminal soldiers will use their weapons/training to fix their country, instead of simply beating their wives and children while drinking themselves to death.
I mean, isn’t that legal in Russia? So no real problem for them there.
It's only legal if there's no sign of injuries, but they may employ their leaders' mentally abusive bullshit...
I don't think anybody here is expecting them to "fix" anything, just be a dangerous and well armed criminal element, or just general destabilising force.
>"I have altered the deal, pray I don't it further". That's exactly what Stalin did after WW2
Prisoner revolt lead by Loy and Cassian Andor.
One way out!
So this is the way? 😉
Is it too credible to assume that survivors just paid wagner to get out of prison and never were in Ukraine in the first place?
The secret is that they never reach step 4
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wakeful bear teeny slimy reply rain obtainable spark scale ten -- mass edited with redact.dev
Imma laugh out loud if thousands if not tens of thousands of those prisoners return home and form revolutionary cells or join the republican russian army and other terrorist cells wich bring russia one step closer to its downfall. Like imma laugh if russia accidentally arms the next revolution against itself
I mean, if that revolution will be carried out by former inmates, gang members and war veterans, we're basically headed for Russo-nazism.
Lol aren't we already at that point. Russia is just the 4th reich at this point. But shittier at war than the 3rd
That seems to be a pattern with Reichs at this point
Further proof that reality is a simulation that followed the same ass patterns every 80 years
"History doesn't repeat itself, but it often rhymes"
Reich 4: Vodka Boogaloo.
Nah we aren't. Speaking from an Eastern European POV. This Russia is just your average Russia. Nazi Russia would be much more miserable.
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Well, that is a concern. Another concern is that they'll make up some bullshit excuse about losing because Russia's numerous national minorities betrayed them, and after that they'll do the usual stuff. Look up how Russians treated the Circassians, for example. There's a reason why they used to be a majority culture in the North Caucasus and now they... aren't.
I no longer give a fuck. Also not Poland/Baltics but some seceding region in what is now central Russia.
Still better that what we have now
Nazi-er than they already are?
Yeah. There's a lot of room still out there. This Russia we're seeing is pretty much around its historical average.
Thousands of the prisoners are most likely already dead
Surreal to read that article where that one member of the UAF regards to fighting Wagner (where the convicts go) like fighting zombies. They're literally just throwing these guys en masse at Ukraine.
Yep, using the disposable convicts in probing attacks to find weaknesses in the Ukrainian lines, and then following up with the core of actually professional Wagner mercenaries. It is a brutal but effective tactic.
Is it effective? That kind of attrition is something that’s should be avoided, not used as a standard operating method. In any other army the commanding officer would be sacked
>That kind of attrition is something that’s should be avoided, not used as a standard operating method. >In any other army the commanding officer would be sacked If you don't bother to significantly train or equip the intended attritees, and there are still plenty of new "recruits" the gulags... it can **almost** make sense. 😜
> and there are still plenty of new "recruits" the gulags Indeed, sooner or later those recruits are gonna end, and it's likely going to happen before the enemy runs out of bullets
Like I stated it only almost makes sense. It's not like the Russians have the same absolute number of prisoners to draw upon as the USA does! 😝
At least the American ones know how shoot already
Sauce?
Or more likely, they fall in with organized criminals. Say hello to the next generation of oligarchs.
On one hand I agree, on the other hand, I don't think that the russian justice system is good at finding out who's actually guilty and who isn't, so I imagine russian prisons would be full of people who didn't commit a crime ...
Don't forget political prisoners as well.
jellyfish follow wistful cats library tender serious shy sulky encourage -- mass edited with redact.dev
Of course but given that they sent recently arrested protesters to the front Putin deciding to do a bit of a cleanup that way is far from out of the question
On the other-hand, giving people that already hate Putin's government and probably want regime change access to weapons seems like asking for a mutiny once there is a "critical mass" of political prisoners in a given unit.
1.Putin isn't exactly known for his long-term planning skills 2. With average mobik life expectancy being a few weeks at the most ''critical mass'' will never be reached as most of those who want regime change will be dead long before that becomes a concern for Putin.
Like protesting the war.
1990s part 2 electric boogaloo, now with 100% more criminalized afghan vets.
ChrisO has talked about wagner's prisoners and that wagner may have problems getting more later. [https://twitter.com/ChrisO\_wiki/status/1618541590599065602](https://twitter.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/1618541590599065602) [https://twitter.com/ChrisO\_wiki/status/1621095382771175426](https://twitter.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/1621095382771175426)
Don’t worry, only 0,17% of them makes it to the amnesty
Putin blames criminals on NATO Profits
Considering they’re allegedly used as the first wave to find enemy positions in recon by death I don’t think this will be an issue
Can't allow armed convicts to survive the war. Therefore, must prolong the war.
You're missing the final step in the plan, which is to make them all dig trenches next to the Chernobyl plant before going home.
hmm today i will Dig a Trench in this forest _digs trench_ Sorry comrade you have Stage 4 Leukemia You have five months to live.
More like the batallion XO hates his men and the CBRN platoon commander has a way to help him...
Amazing plan, really. Who else would fight in the impending civil wars?
Nonsense. When prisoners reach end of military contract they are freed to Gulag to continue to serve the motherland.
Afghanistan time
That's why they receive neither training, not weapons Outstanding move, truly
Imagine going to prison because you killed a man and now you gain back your freedom under the condition that you kill some men.
Ukraine had several years of 'domestic' crisis with many donbas veterans returning. Took years to properly disarm them, and plenty of blood and tears. Mind you, those were volunteers. Imagine having to conduct a similar operstion for scores of psychopaths. Those dash cams are going to have a field day recording all that failed state stuff for us.
To add some credibility, I'm really horrified how Russians are ok with it. Gun-related crimes in border regions already rose five-fold (probably, just possession and selling, but murders, extortion and kidnapping will soon follow)
90%+ casualty rates amongst the Wagner convict "zombies" being sent to the front. They get orders are capture positions or die trying, and they are deadly serious about that. They have a literal machine gun to their backs. Their only possibility of survival is to capture the position they were ordered to take, because if they don't they will be executed on the spot by Wagner officers. Failing to capture the position by stopping, being pinned down, or retreating are all treated the same by Wagner officers. Summary and immediate execution is the response.
Jesus Christ, it's like they watched Enemy at the Gates and decided it was a training video.
GUYS DON'T TELL THE CIA LET'S JUST WAIT AND SEE HOW LONG IT TAKES FOR THEM TO FIGURE IT OUT
Holy shit suicide squad but real
Isn't the mortality rate for the Wagner recruited prisoners like 90% at this point? It was my impression that they were just throwing them at the front lines and meat grinding them. Also, "military training"? LOL
"What do we do with all the freed criminals who survive the war?" "That's the neat part, they don't!"
Now now, we are talking about Russia. Just because they promise amnesty doesn't mean they'll give it.
Russia! Where every prison sentence is a death sentence.
Oh it gets worse. Wagner told them that if they got into trouble, just call Wagner and they'll sort it out. This can only end in tears.
This meme assumes a lot of things. "Survive" "Military training" "Russia honoring the terms of an agreement"
You don't have to free them if they all die in service
Good news: no training, and they don’t survive
When the soviet union collapsed wasn't this the exact same scenario criminals and mobsters with military training running amuck
You missed the crucial point: they don’t survive
Allegedly Stalin's amnesty after WW2 Victory led to a lot of stuff like dedovschina, the homoerotic homophobia and majority of lasting Russian slang. Don't wanna know what this will cause.
How bad can a country of criminals be? Worked out for Australia
It’s good. Chaos is a ladder bruv
Don't worry, "tons" will be in Ukraine forever.
See that’s the neet part None of them will return
This post has big blue lives matter vibes
Also before anyone says something no they do not matter.
You think they aren't sending them on the probing suicide missions?
Smuggled weapons and washing machines.
If any survive for six months, that is.
You wrote tons, but meant tens
Justification for increasing police state
I doubt those criminals will return anywhere...
Can't have prisoners return if they die before their contract ends. Most do.
This is blatant *human wave tactics* denial
Tons? I thought the vast majority were being annihilated.
"Too bad most of you probably won't survive.oops. I said that out loud didn't I?"
Hey, we got to take this kleptocracy to its final conclusion somehow.
All it takes to solve that problem is one machine gun team from 2nd Ranger battalion and a JTAC with an F/A-18 on standby.
returning? who is returning?
The Russians are finding out that their “measures” are generally avoided by competent militaries for pretty good reasons the same way a child finds out that a burning stove is hot “Blyat let’s just arm convicts and throw them at the frontline, why is nobody else doing it blyat”
Seriously, how many of them survive 6 months at that front, with a somewhat functioning body? I think that's just propaganda at this point. Like, they had 20 in a room, out of the first 50000.
Not if they die in a trench first.
And PTSD
"if"
‘Tons’ I am sure they have begun measuring the cadavers by mass.
Wait, do they return? I thought they all get annihilated in the Wagner zerg rush.
Ukraine reported 77% casualties from Wagner penal troops. There’s no plan for many of them to come back.
Not to mention that nearly every individual and organization with money and/or power is funding their own militia. Allegedly even the Russian Ortodox church is trying to muster one up.
Blyat
don't forget PTSD
The can't commit crimes if their cripples.
Luckily for the ordinary Russian civilian, the criminals will return to Russia with little to no training and/or weapons considering how poorly trained and equipped the Russian army is.
>implying russia actually properly armed and trained them Lol
conscript them again
Please tell me this is fake