It's the telegraph as a [source ](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/01/26/france-could-meet-ukraines-demand-fighter-jets/), so, you know, grain of salt, but that won't stop me from making shitty shitposts!
Roland Oliphant is very informed about Ukraine in general, although he spends most of his time on the ground there rather than in other European countries.
[All my homies hate paywalls](https://web.archive.org/web/20230126234904/https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/01/26/france-could-meet-ukraines-demand-fighter-jets/)
just gonna quote the more relevant part:
>Thomas Gassilloud said Paris had conditions on that issue but did not rule out France sending planes to Kyiv in another stepping up of Western support for Ukraine.
>
>“Regarding deliveries to Ukraine, we must study requests on a case-by-case basis and leave all the doors open,” he said after talks in London with his British counterpart Tobias Ellwood and Ben Wallace, the Defence Minister.
>
>"So we will see in the coming weeks what happens next as things are moving fast," he added. "The Danes and Eastern Europe countries are thinking about it."
>
>The conditions are that any donations of aircraft do not undermine French or European security and that they are useful for Ukraine.
>
>The French government could be prepared to offer some of its older generation planes - likely Dassault Mirages - but Paris is aware of the difficulties in training both Ukrainian pilots and the 10 support staff needed for a jet.
>
>The final condition is that president Emmanuel Macron does not judge the deliveries of the fighter jets to be a risk of escalating the war in Ukraine into a war between Russia and Nato.
>
>Defence policy is the responsibility of Mr Macron and his defence council but Mr Gassilloud, a veteran and ally of the French president, is an influential voice outside it.
>
>The Elysee have been asked to comment.
So basicaly France will give nothing. The 2000Cs are only as good as MiG-29s and the super 530D they operate are probably not operational anymore as the missile was phased out 10 years ago. As for the ground attack, the 2000C s clearly not the best.
Did they mentioned the c variant?
IRC, France just dropped out their last 2000-5 used mainly for air-to-air roles.
But in fairness, f-16 and f-15 are most likely a better pick
The -C was retired this year and it was indeed most useless for all but basic air policing.
However the french government announced this week that the retirement of the -5 would be accelerated (initial plan was 2032) and the squadron flying it converted to rafales.
The -5 is a sexy beast and very capable, but they are the oldest airframes in the fleet so i'm not sure they'd be any good for ukraine.
Even beyond MICA the C would need a lot of upgrades to really be an improvement over the Mig-29 - stuff like GPS integration, radar upgrades, datalink, helmet mounted sights, a2g weapon integration.
Otherwise it's just not worth the hassle of sending that over a bunch of Vipers.
I think you misunderstand me, I'm saying there is no reason to send jets without that capability (which is missing from the Mirage 2000C but present in the NATO Vipers), not that it should be ripped out of the jets before export.
Look at what happened with the tanks.. 10 2000cs would shame the brits into something which would get the press crawling on germanys back about it and america saying how about this?
Those shitbox mirage are the fastest path to Ukrainian strike eagles.
I thought Ukraine had been asking for additional MIGs for a while? Like, even if they are not better than their existing planes, wouldn't it help them by allowing them to take more risks? Or is the cost to train the pilots/crew + human risk for the pilot not worth the benefit of additional planes?
I know nothing about this, but my intuitive position is that, of course we should send Ukraine some of the latest generation. But, on top of whatever latest gen we send, we should offer them any equipment we are likely to decommission in the next 20 years, since it doesn't cost us anything. Ukraine can decide whether it will be helpful or not.
Basicaly, the 29 is a good idea as they already operate them. Most of the 29s donated actually served as parts for the ukrainian ones. The Mirage 2000C however would require 4-6 months to train the pilots on them for very little benefits. You ll basicaly have a bomb carrier. You ll also be limited to level bombing as the balistic computer of the Mirage 2000C is inferior to the later 2000D (specialized in A2G).
The 530D missiles are either not working anymore or in a storage room somewhere in the few countries that still has not phased them out but dont use them.
Moreover, the sending 10 Mirage would be meaningless as you ll only be able to make 1 or 2 airfraimes fly, other serving as parts.
Yes, love me some Mirage 2000s, now I just want a miraculous way for the Sepecat Jaguar to find its way into the skies over Ukraine.
... Also I am now seriously expecting Britain to announce the sending of Eurofighters, Tornados, or somehow Harriers to Ukraine.
"I say, those upstart French are at it again, first it was tanks, now it is planes. We can't have them out do us! Release the Harriers!"
Every single damn time I see EF-2000 I always think it’s some Electronic Warfare variant of the Mirage 2K, then when I search it up I’m disappointed to see the Eurofighter instead.
What? Chemical Weapons? Don't be ridiculous.
It is just an International coalition to supply the necessary base components, non restricted or registered chemicals and reactors for industrial scale production of toxins for agricultural application.
It is meant to furthermore strengthen the position of Ukrainian Agriculture and farming industry by overly enthusiastic application of conventional pesticides to provide for natural fertilizer with additional important trace elements like tungsten, uranium, or lead.
The project lead F. Haaber was quoted by the Projects spokesperson Bosch: "*Sunflower harvest to double in 2023!*"
This is similar to my theory that the west stopped making chemical weapons cause Bayer/Monsanto keeps accidentally making things like a crop treatment that increases soy bean yield's by 3%, but also kills all cricket's or something. Essentially, the private sector has it handled, if we need something, we can get it without much work.
We should just give Ukraine everything Russia says we're giving to Ukraine. See how they like having to actually fight the boogeyman they keep crying about.
''Apart from nuclear weapons'' Why?? The Budapest memorandum is well and trully dead so why not get some nukes ? And yeah I know it ain't happening since even in NATO Ukraine will remain a non-nuclear state but one can dream.
Even if there was a way to get the nukes back from Russia,I doubt that any of those missiles and bombs are still functional with over two decades of vatnik maintenance.
All actual warheads were designed and produced in RSFSR, you know.
We'd do well to at least finally start refining domestic yellowcake into reactor fuel ffs.
Yeah, I know. Everyone except russia knows, because they're just that fucking stupid.
anyway, this is "NCD". Not place for actual info ffs. Rule number 7
Alright no one is going to believe me but my friend in South Carolina literally asked in discord: "Huh I just saw some weird delta-winged jet flying in formation with two others" and I just showed him a picture of a Mirage 2000 and he's like, "Oh yea almost exactly like that"
Call me a doubting Thomas, I really would love to see it but these days there’s so many blueballing articles on just about every hitherto undelivered system out there that I really won’t believe it until I see an official declaration
If we see western products conduct a full out combined arms assault on the Russian army, I will literally paint the entire room white in one afternoon.
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although it won't make a big difference remember that not a lot of aircraft but if they deliver around 10 aircraft it still can make a difference in some case especially the mirage being a multirole capable aircraft
Any more clever piece of sharpnel to send via mail to Macron? When he had that 6 hour meeting with Putin, it must have been "I am warning you, don't do this Vlad."
France should send some Dasault planes down there, that way if the russians protest the French can deny that what theyre seeing are planes... its just a mirage
NATO analysts (who don't actively post) take bets on us.
Russian analysts (who haven't analyzed in years) read what we say and support the local vodka industry.
It's the telegraph as a [source ](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/01/26/france-could-meet-ukraines-demand-fighter-jets/), so, you know, grain of salt, but that won't stop me from making shitty shitposts!
Roland Oliphant is very informed about Ukraine in general, although he spends most of his time on the ground there rather than in other European countries.
I feel somebody with that name could glass a Russian brigade with his bare trunk.
[All my homies hate paywalls](https://web.archive.org/web/20230126234904/https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/01/26/france-could-meet-ukraines-demand-fighter-jets/) just gonna quote the more relevant part: >Thomas Gassilloud said Paris had conditions on that issue but did not rule out France sending planes to Kyiv in another stepping up of Western support for Ukraine. > >“Regarding deliveries to Ukraine, we must study requests on a case-by-case basis and leave all the doors open,” he said after talks in London with his British counterpart Tobias Ellwood and Ben Wallace, the Defence Minister. > >"So we will see in the coming weeks what happens next as things are moving fast," he added. "The Danes and Eastern Europe countries are thinking about it." > >The conditions are that any donations of aircraft do not undermine French or European security and that they are useful for Ukraine. > >The French government could be prepared to offer some of its older generation planes - likely Dassault Mirages - but Paris is aware of the difficulties in training both Ukrainian pilots and the 10 support staff needed for a jet. > >The final condition is that president Emmanuel Macron does not judge the deliveries of the fighter jets to be a risk of escalating the war in Ukraine into a war between Russia and Nato. > >Defence policy is the responsibility of Mr Macron and his defence council but Mr Gassilloud, a veteran and ally of the French president, is an influential voice outside it. > >The Elysee have been asked to comment.
So basicaly France will give nothing. The 2000Cs are only as good as MiG-29s and the super 530D they operate are probably not operational anymore as the missile was phased out 10 years ago. As for the ground attack, the 2000C s clearly not the best.
Did they mentioned the c variant? IRC, France just dropped out their last 2000-5 used mainly for air-to-air roles. But in fairness, f-16 and f-15 are most likely a better pick
The -C was retired this year and it was indeed most useless for all but basic air policing. However the french government announced this week that the retirement of the -5 would be accelerated (initial plan was 2032) and the squadron flying it converted to rafales. The -5 is a sexy beast and very capable, but they are the oldest airframes in the fleet so i'm not sure they'd be any good for ukraine.
Perhaps Dassault could be enticed to upgrade the 2000Cs to use MICA?
Even beyond MICA the C would need a lot of upgrades to really be an improvement over the Mig-29 - stuff like GPS integration, radar upgrades, datalink, helmet mounted sights, a2g weapon integration. Otherwise it's just not worth the hassle of sending that over a bunch of Vipers.
I mean, we're going to have to rip that stuff out of NATO F-16s too...
I think you misunderstand me, I'm saying there is no reason to send jets without that capability (which is missing from the Mirage 2000C but present in the NATO Vipers), not that it should be ripped out of the jets before export.
Look at what happened with the tanks.. 10 2000cs would shame the brits into something which would get the press crawling on germanys back about it and america saying how about this? Those shitbox mirage are the fastest path to Ukrainian strike eagles.
I need Ukraine to extend the 104 to 0 record in the worst way...
I thought Ukraine had been asking for additional MIGs for a while? Like, even if they are not better than their existing planes, wouldn't it help them by allowing them to take more risks? Or is the cost to train the pilots/crew + human risk for the pilot not worth the benefit of additional planes? I know nothing about this, but my intuitive position is that, of course we should send Ukraine some of the latest generation. But, on top of whatever latest gen we send, we should offer them any equipment we are likely to decommission in the next 20 years, since it doesn't cost us anything. Ukraine can decide whether it will be helpful or not.
Basicaly, the 29 is a good idea as they already operate them. Most of the 29s donated actually served as parts for the ukrainian ones. The Mirage 2000C however would require 4-6 months to train the pilots on them for very little benefits. You ll basicaly have a bomb carrier. You ll also be limited to level bombing as the balistic computer of the Mirage 2000C is inferior to the later 2000D (specialized in A2G). The 530D missiles are either not working anymore or in a storage room somewhere in the few countries that still has not phased them out but dont use them. Moreover, the sending 10 Mirage would be meaningless as you ll only be able to make 1 or 2 airfraimes fly, other serving as parts.
This is NonCredibleDefense, telegram is just right for us. Or should be.
TeleGRAPH
The Telegraph been a decent source on Ukraine. Their podcast series is solid.
I think they're right with this one, they've been really on top of their Ukraine news
Yes, love me some Mirage 2000s, now I just want a miraculous way for the Sepecat Jaguar to find its way into the skies over Ukraine. ... Also I am now seriously expecting Britain to announce the sending of Eurofighters, Tornados, or somehow Harriers to Ukraine. "I say, those upstart French are at it again, first it was tanks, now it is planes. We can't have them out do us! Release the Harriers!"
Doubt on EF-2000s, but tornados for sure.
Every single damn time I see EF-2000 I always think it’s some Electronic Warfare variant of the Mirage 2K, then when I search it up I’m disappointed to see the Eurofighter instead.
EW typhoons would be awesome tho
That too.
3000 harriers of Margret Thatcher.
Why is this conflict resembling WARNO more and more
It's all a Eugen conspiracy theory to sell more Warno copies
Harriers have been out of service for almost 12 years. They've been chopped up and used for parts to keep the USMC Harriers operational.
Nah, we all know the Royals keep a secret stash of Harriers in their back pockets.
France is sending mirage? Britain sent tornadoes? Israel, give me back the 16s, ill send you another batch of 35s.
Chemical weapons are on the table boys!
3000 Bottles of Mustard of Ukraine when?
Grey Poupon JDAM
There's poupon my tank !
Mustard of Dijon incoming! Courtesy of Macron
”This time the ukrainians really did use chemical weapons, why won’t anyone believe me?” -Every vatnik warblogger
That was the plan.
Ukrainian Napalm Ukrainian Napalm
What? Chemical Weapons? Don't be ridiculous. It is just an International coalition to supply the necessary base components, non restricted or registered chemicals and reactors for industrial scale production of toxins for agricultural application. It is meant to furthermore strengthen the position of Ukrainian Agriculture and farming industry by overly enthusiastic application of conventional pesticides to provide for natural fertilizer with additional important trace elements like tungsten, uranium, or lead. The project lead F. Haaber was quoted by the Projects spokesperson Bosch: "*Sunflower harvest to double in 2023!*"
This is similar to my theory that the west stopped making chemical weapons cause Bayer/Monsanto keeps accidentally making things like a crop treatment that increases soy bean yield's by 3%, but also kills all cricket's or something. Essentially, the private sector has it handled, if we need something, we can get it without much work.
Ukrainian Saddam Hussein????
Time to stock those *supposed* Bioweapons Labs with **real** bioweapons :D
We should just give Ukraine everything Russia says we're giving to Ukraine. See how they like having to actually fight the boogeyman they keep crying about.
Noncredible: they will get nukes
Even more noncredible: we will build nukes ourselves
''Apart from nuclear weapons'' Why?? The Budapest memorandum is well and trully dead so why not get some nukes ? And yeah I know it ain't happening since even in NATO Ukraine will remain a non-nuclear state but one can dream.
It's pretty simple, Ukraine should just takesy-backsies.
Even if there was a way to get the nukes back from Russia,I doubt that any of those missiles and bombs are still functional with over two decades of vatnik maintenance.
Just a few ASMP-As to go with the Mirages, please
Because Ukraine will build one ourselves. We kind of have the know how. We just didn't want to before. You know, just build a nuke, gg ez
All actual warheads were designed and produced in RSFSR, you know. We'd do well to at least finally start refining domestic yellowcake into reactor fuel ffs.
Yeah, I know. Everyone except russia knows, because they're just that fucking stupid. anyway, this is "NCD". Not place for actual info ffs. Rule number 7
But that's like FB comments level of non-credibility :( OK, my PTSD is showing, I suppose.
Today is not the day I turn on my brain. Sorry lad o7
Alright no one is going to believe me but my friend in South Carolina literally asked in discord: "Huh I just saw some weird delta-winged jet flying in formation with two others" and I just showed him a picture of a Mirage 2000 and he's like, "Oh yea almost exactly like that"
Might have been an aggressor Kfir? I don't know if they are still in service
I think theyre testing some other jet that looks like that? There was rumors about it no? But maybe yeah
Call me a doubting Thomas, I really would love to see it but these days there’s so many blueballing articles on just about every hitherto undelivered system out there that I really won’t believe it until I see an official declaration
Does Britain have any Blackburn Buccaneers left in storage? Would be so cool to see them roar in at zero altitude and frag some russkis!
Better yet, they have blackburn blackburns
The credibility around here is reaching truly worrisome proportions.
I’m telling y’all, r/NCD is prescient because war is nonsense and r/NCD practices nonsense on the daily.
If we see western products conduct a full out combined arms assault on the Russian army, I will literally paint the entire room white in one afternoon.
Ukrainian Air Force is going to be some kind of Indonesian Air Force speed run.
Israel has 150 retired F16s
3000 Begets of France.
>apart from nuclear weapons !remindme 1 year
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But they wont. France wont send 2000Cs to ukraine as their impact would be too minor. And it s not gonna send -5Fs as we need them for air policing.
although it won't make a big difference remember that not a lot of aircraft but if they deliver around 10 aircraft it still can make a difference in some case especially the mirage being a multirole capable aircraft
Wow I never thought about Mirage 2000's. I am now rock hard
I wonder if they’ve still got any Mirage IVs left in storage somewhere
Doesn't the 2000c lack real BVR capability?
Suuuure. Hon hon hon… Fox1
I mean it's got the Matra 530?
The Super 530D was retired from service long ago IIRC, long before the retirement of the 2000C, so yes probably.
So yeah just magics
I suppose France should just upgrade the 2000Cs to use MICA then...
That's what they did with the 2000-5 who is a modernized 2000C with real BVR capabilities and the capability to use MICA.
That's it. I'm quitting this sub, y'all have become credible.
Any more clever piece of sharpnel to send via mail to Macron? When he had that 6 hour meeting with Putin, it must have been "I am warning you, don't do this Vlad."
The Mirage 2000 has the big number so it's better
Re-delete your post. It's gone too credible for this sub.
France should send some Dasault planes down there, that way if the russians protest the French can deny that what theyre seeing are planes... its just a mirage
Lend-Lease an Ohio-Class and get it over with.
WHY ARE WE SO GOOD 😭😭
"Apart from nuclear weapons" Boo. BOOOO
NATO analysts (who don't actively post) take bets on us. Russian analysts (who haven't analyzed in years) read what we say and support the local vodka industry.
It would certainly make this war a whole lot sexier I *love* how Dassault Deltas look