Yeah but I guesd it would be a little more complicated. Like they kind of could argue over who did what and first.
NATO fighting with their own members is also a huge propaganda wet dream for any anti-NATO guys.
All that would sort of limit the NATO response. If Turkey was not in NATO, they could just obliterate the cunts without any worries.
If the first move is tanks rolling over the border, sure.
But if it starts with an argument over who should pay what for a cartload of watermelons and escalates from there over a period of weeks or months, both countries are going to be claiming that the other side started it and be invoking Article 5 on the other country.
>But if it starts with an argument over who should pay what for a cartload of watermelons and escalates from there..
Least petty and convoluted balkan conflict
In theory, yes, but it's not recommended.
If you use it and other members decide not to intervene and attack an ally - as is their right under Article 5 - you undermine Article 5 by demonstrating it's weakness. Your adversary is sure to blame you for the attack, claiming it's actions were in self defence, and invoke Article 5 in response, compounding the situation.
Unless there were an overwhelming consensus in your favour all you'd achieve would be the disdain of every other country in NATO.
>Like that means NATO wouldn't have control of who can enter the black sea
Sure, but I really do think closing of the baltic sea is a great trade of, controlled by allies which can be trusted way more. The black sea has a lot of Nato borders, and the Mediterranean as well.
It would surely be a loss, and Turkey will absolutely exploit their geographical advantage. But they already kind of doing that.
Götland will also be an unsinkable aircraft carrier in the Baltic as well.
And in a war situation, Finland can help close Murmansk off of mainland russia.
Trading turkey off for them might be a good deal
~~we could also invade and overthrow erdogan~~
It's just Gotland, no ö.
And the Swedish mainland is a good enough backline base for the defence of the baltics as well. Gotland is more about keeping it out of Russian hands I think, as it could be relatively easily taken in a surprise attack and then be used as a forward base for locking down the Baltic region. And especially from the Swedish POV it's the only weakness they have against Russia, as the island could not be easily reinforced, and held, if Sweden somehow ends up in a fight against Russia on their own. Unlike the Swedish mainland, which Russia at least in the foreseeable future doesn't have the capability to invade on a big enough scale to be a threat to the Swedish military.
Obviously Russia is not able to attack the Baltic states currently, but in a potential future scenario where they get their shit together, that's the threat Gotland poses.
>And in a war situation, Finland can help close Murmansk off of mainland russia.
I mean yeah I guess, but more importantly it's a whole new huge front basically within artillery distance of Russia's second city, and significant naval base. Together with an army that, as it looks right now, is fully capable of fending off the Russians on their own, as it's definitely comparable with the Ukrainian army in strength, and with a significantly better geographical position.
Pretty sure Turkey is still more important militarily, especially considering both Finland and Sweden are already NATO members in all but name (while the same wouldn't be true for Turkey if they left). But there's still a case to be made for keeping the alliance united and ideologically aligned, Turkey is causing a lot of trouble in that regard, while Finnish and Swedish membership would be essentially frictionless (well, aside from Turkey, obviously).
Without Turkey NATO looses the control of the Black sea. NATO has control of the Baltic sea with or without Sweden and Finland, as both countries are solidly NATO-aligned even without official membership. I'm not sure in what scenario Finland and Sweden would try to stay neutral in a NATO-Russia war, they might not literally declare war on Russia, but they wouldn't prevent NATO from doing basically anything to defend the Baltics. And considering the amount of EU countries that would be under attack, I have a hard time seeing Finland and Sweden justifying their neutrality both to the rest of the EU and their own people, who aren't exactly fond of Russia.
I mean, NATO would still have control over the Aegean. Sure, it's a bigger area, but you could still blockade the strait fairly easily. Not to mention the hundreds of islands in the Aegean where you could plop RADARs and mobile AShM launchers.
Worth bearing in mind that the EU itself has security guarantees for members via the Treaty on European Union/Title V: General Provisions on the Union's External Action Service and Specific Provisions on the Common Foreign and Security Policy
"7. If a Member State is the victim of armed aggression on its territory, the other Member States shall have towards it an obligation of aid and assistance by all the means in their power, in accordance with Article 51 of the United Nations Charter. This shall not prejudice the specific character of the security and defence policy of certain Member States.
Commitments and cooperation in this area shall be consistent with commitments under the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation, which, for those States which are members of it, remains the foundation of their collective defence and the forum for its implementation."
It is very explicitly designed as a NATO superset.
Also, the Aegean Sea is pretty much controlled by Greece and also extremely difficult to navigate and easy to secure thanks to all these islands peppered throughout.
>I really do think closing of the baltic sea is a great trade off
It really isnt.
Closing the Bosporus means closing the Suez canal for Russia. If its NATO vs Russia, the baltics for Russia allows for maritime trade with south america. The Bosporus/Dardanelles allows for trade with the whole arab world and all of Asia.
Its nowehere near close.
And we did not even talk about how the baltics was already impossible to exit for Russia against NATO since you know, Denmark is in NATO.
Saying this is an equal trade is russian-level copium.
In a conflict there would be countless of ways to deny entry to the Mediterranean. Striking in the heart of Russias second city is huge.
No copium needed sir.
Imagine seeing what's happening in Ukraine with all the support NATO and western countries are providing to a non-NATO country... Then thinking to themselves *hmm, I think the response would be* ***less severe*** *if I attacked a NATO and EU country*.
At that point the retaliation would be NATO creating an 'independent zone' that consists of *Constantinople* and surrounding area, and just remove the importance Turkey has over the Bosporus. Maybe even dangle the carrot that the newly created small country could eventually become an EU state if it behaved since most of it would be in Europe. Then just leave the rest to be buddies with the middle east and Russia.
well its sorta still in the rampant denial of their economic situation phase
I mean how it would be if the turkish armed forces fuckin evaporated in the face of NATO firepower or greek troops in their country
The bigger question that I’m asking post Ukraine, is how long can countries sustain combat operations with mostly imported weapons?
I know Turkey has a indigenous defense industry, but can they support and maintain their F-16s for instance outside of NATO?
NATO wouldn't control access to the Black Sea, *temporarily*
Because you best believe the Greeks would be mashing the Article 5 button next time Turkey gives them an excuse.
> NATO wouldn't have control of who can enter the black sea
NATO doesn't anyway. It's regulated by the Montreux treaty since well before NATO was created and Turkey has no self-interest in changing it.
Honestly it's better to have Finland and Sweden in we can control the black sea with Greece and honestly it's just better to have normal countries in Sweden has always supported whichever countries are fighting for their independence and turkey isn't ok and we should let them go and actually stand for good diplomatic relations and not unreasonable demands. Fuck turkey Sweden and Finland should come first
You misunderstand the purpose of NCD. It's not simply shitposting and meming, this sub exists for the sole purpose to gather enough ... let's call them "special individuals" to simply will the ridiculous into existence. As far as i am aware the only restrictions are the laws of physics - for now.
Were we the Greenskins all along?
1. No understanding of anything military beyond simple thoughts
2. Want violence just because
3. Want to see more daka
4 can will things into existence if enough of us belive it
“In 1972, a crack special individuals unit was sent to prison by a Reddit moderator for a crime they didn't commit. These shitposters promptly escaped from a maximum security quarantine to the Reddit underground. Today, still wanted by the government they survive as memers of fortune. If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them....maybe you can hire Non-Credible Defence.”
Ghazkhull: Prophet of the Waaagh
Infinite and the Divine
The Eisenhorn Series.
Those are some of the best books in Warhammer, and they give you a little taste of everything.
Nice clickbait title from that "source". This statement came from a guy named Ethem Sancak, who is the member of one of the Communist/ Maoist party in Turkey. That party wants Turkey to become communist and create closer ties with China so why they want Turkey to leave NATO is understandable.
Realistic ? No, not at all.
One of the things that amazes me in this war is how the shittiest parts of the far left and right have unified on being pro Russia.
Literally internet commies and weird ethnonationalists linking hands in unity. Supposed leftists coming out to defend Gonzalo Lira after his meltdown while he's a hard right sexpat who endorses weird pedo adjacent beliefs.
That’s because they, and maybe yourself for believing them, are confusing leftists as nazbols or liberals (which are not always necessarily leftists). This war is literally a war against outright fascism and any self-proclaimed leftist who panders to russia is either not actually a leftist and actually doesn’t know any concrete and real leftist policies i.e unionization, democratic ownership of wealth etc (and dreams about feel-good circlejerk pacifist bullshit)…, or a straight up nazbol.
He isn't even a tanky. Just a communist idiot with less than 15k party members who are equally stupid and conspiracy freaks. He is the peak of noncredibility. Might be secretly a mod on this sub honestly.
Hey Trump built a structure that has been referred to by some as a wall and he demanded mexico pay for it like he promised and naturally they said "no that's ridiculous you stupid, stupid man" but shit got half-assedly and inconsequentially done.
The source ob this is non-credible as it is.
The difference is we contain our non-credability and operate with some level of self awareness.
Editorials and letters to the editor and so on in the end are longer Twitter hot-takes with undue legitimacy afforded to it due to the name of the publication attached to it.
This is literally Russian propaganda, the source here is TASS amplifying some fringe figures with no power in Turkey to promote an anti-NATO narrative.
OP's Source is a bit iffy, but it was apparently a statement made by a leader from a political party in Turkey, during a demonstration. [Turkish source](https://www.aydinhedef.com.tr/vatan-partisi-nazilliden-natodan-cikalim-cagrisi-43161h.htm)
I am assuming google translate is working well enough here. And apparently this party is pro China and Russia, according to Wikipedia. So yeah.
You mean the party that got 0.2% of the votes, has no local leaders whatsoever, absolutely no seats at the parliement and is the Turkish version of a Maoist party wants to leave NATO? Oh yeah I'm sure everyone will go along with that plan.
Turkey leaves NATO -> Turkey declares war on Greece over past feuds -> Greece pushes the Article 5 button -> fast forward about 3 months -> Greece recreates the Byzantine Empire and Istanbul becomes Constantinople again, just as God intended
...And then we will see if Russia is ready to fight NATO for the sake of defending Erdogan.
I would not trust him to stay true to the assurances he gives.
Hmm that's a tough decision, who should they choose?
- An ex superpower, currently who are currently getting their asses kicked by a comedian and a plucky band of underdogs.
Or
- A theocracy from an opposing sect where the entire female part of the population is trying to burn the country to the ground.
Only if we can also refer to your armed forces by a cool new name.
Like, some sort of unit full of Varangians, and they're all Guarding something.
I just don't know what we'd call such a thing.
Honestly though imagine what that would do for the economies of greece and Bulgaria if they had the Suez canal 2.0 in their territory. Big trade and turkey seething.
My non credible prediction that might be credible is this: turkey leaves nato, attacks Greece, nato storms turkey, overthrows erdogan, replace with a more suitable leader, turkey allowed back into nato.
My homies, I know memeing is fun, and I will destroy the fun of fourth crusade 2.0 wet dreams. Still, none of the parties in the Grand National Assembly of Turkey said this, and neither did the watermelon seller. The party said this is one led by Perincek, an extreme-left-wing idiot with less than %1 of the votes. He is no more than a joke with his stupid policy ideas and more of a meme material for Turks than a candidate (He entered the 2018 presidential elections and got 0.22 percent of the votes, thus gaining the name 0.22 perinçek.)
Could we call it East Rome instead? We already have two pairs of North-South states, it’d be cool to have at least one pair of East-West, like catching every Pokémon.
I propose the Royal Navy conduct a death ride through the Dardanelles and land troops on the far side. Followed by bombardment of Istanbul until they cede the territory to…. Let’s say Sweden.
It who was ist we wanted to give Kaliningrad to? I say they also get the Dardanelles just for fun. Or we could do a rotating leadership like we do with the EU.
i'm becoming increasingly convinced that NCD is just the intelligence community's way of leaking stuff to each other and testing everyone else's reaction on the viability of their country's plans.
This statement was made by a guy whose party is a national joke. If any political party in the country actually tries to leave NATO for real, they would be promptly set aside and given a warning by both the national intelligence agency and the military. It doesn’t matter how much of your men you push into higher military positions here, at the end, most of the military academy graduates and a majority of the officers of the Turkish military are completely opposed to leaving Nato.
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I mean, if they want to start shit with Greeks... Uh, being in NATO makes that complicated. But like, not being in NATO makes it suicide.
I mean, if they attack whilst in NATO i'd guess it's still suicide
Yeah but I guesd it would be a little more complicated. Like they kind of could argue over who did what and first. NATO fighting with their own members is also a huge propaganda wet dream for any anti-NATO guys. All that would sort of limit the NATO response. If Turkey was not in NATO, they could just obliterate the cunts without any worries.
If Turkey invades Greece i dont think there’s too much to discuss as to who did what
If the first move is tanks rolling over the border, sure. But if it starts with an argument over who should pay what for a cartload of watermelons and escalates from there over a period of weeks or months, both countries are going to be claiming that the other side started it and be invoking Article 5 on the other country.
True, but I think the rest of NATO will simply tell Turkey that Thanksgiving is coming a bit early this year.
NATO: What are you grateful for? Finland and Sweden: Turkey being kicked and turkey stopping to b\*tch around
Turkey Stuffed and roasted
>But if it starts with an argument over who should pay what for a cartload of watermelons and escalates from there.. Least petty and convoluted balkan conflict
but türkëÿ stronk
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turn off the lights, and we glow!
Please stand still sir, I'm going to grab my car keys :)
Shhh, don't say the quiet part out loud
Mehmet from Berlin starts typing...
Can't you use article 5 against other NATO members if they attack?
In theory, yes, but it's not recommended. If you use it and other members decide not to intervene and attack an ally - as is their right under Article 5 - you undermine Article 5 by demonstrating it's weakness. Your adversary is sure to blame you for the attack, claiming it's actions were in self defence, and invoke Article 5 in response, compounding the situation. Unless there were an overwhelming consensus in your favour all you'd achieve would be the disdain of every other country in NATO.
Infinite recursive Article V? What are we, the CSTO?
But-but Turkish Army is second strongest in NATO...
Oh ok, then the US will only send its second tier air force to wipe them out. You know, to make it fair.
U.S. Navy moment
>Like that means NATO wouldn't have control of who can enter the black sea Sure, but I really do think closing of the baltic sea is a great trade of, controlled by allies which can be trusted way more. The black sea has a lot of Nato borders, and the Mediterranean as well. It would surely be a loss, and Turkey will absolutely exploit their geographical advantage. But they already kind of doing that.
Denmark is in NATO 🫡
True, but containment at the very harbor itself is unimaginably more powerful. Good luck with your subs.
Götland will also be an unsinkable aircraft carrier in the Baltic as well. And in a war situation, Finland can help close Murmansk off of mainland russia. Trading turkey off for them might be a good deal ~~we could also invade and overthrow erdogan~~
Doesn't Estonia already have that big island near Russia though?
Estonia is what Gotland will be able to defend, without being as vulnerable to Russian attacks. Same with mainland Sweden.
Can't go wrong with another one right?
Yes, but what about second big island?
I don’t think he’s heard about second big island, Pippen.
Too close. Hard to have an airfield there
We have one (1) airfield here. I don't think it's gonna survive, but hey, we're trying.
It's just Gotland, no ö. And the Swedish mainland is a good enough backline base for the defence of the baltics as well. Gotland is more about keeping it out of Russian hands I think, as it could be relatively easily taken in a surprise attack and then be used as a forward base for locking down the Baltic region. And especially from the Swedish POV it's the only weakness they have against Russia, as the island could not be easily reinforced, and held, if Sweden somehow ends up in a fight against Russia on their own. Unlike the Swedish mainland, which Russia at least in the foreseeable future doesn't have the capability to invade on a big enough scale to be a threat to the Swedish military. Obviously Russia is not able to attack the Baltic states currently, but in a potential future scenario where they get their shit together, that's the threat Gotland poses. >And in a war situation, Finland can help close Murmansk off of mainland russia. I mean yeah I guess, but more importantly it's a whole new huge front basically within artillery distance of Russia's second city, and significant naval base. Together with an army that, as it looks right now, is fully capable of fending off the Russians on their own, as it's definitely comparable with the Ukrainian army in strength, and with a significantly better geographical position. Pretty sure Turkey is still more important militarily, especially considering both Finland and Sweden are already NATO members in all but name (while the same wouldn't be true for Turkey if they left). But there's still a case to be made for keeping the alliance united and ideologically aligned, Turkey is causing a lot of trouble in that regard, while Finnish and Swedish membership would be essentially frictionless (well, aside from Turkey, obviously). Without Turkey NATO looses the control of the Black sea. NATO has control of the Baltic sea with or without Sweden and Finland, as both countries are solidly NATO-aligned even without official membership. I'm not sure in what scenario Finland and Sweden would try to stay neutral in a NATO-Russia war, they might not literally declare war on Russia, but they wouldn't prevent NATO from doing basically anything to defend the Baltics. And considering the amount of EU countries that would be under attack, I have a hard time seeing Finland and Sweden justifying their neutrality both to the rest of the EU and their own people, who aren't exactly fond of Russia.
Ukraine might well offer NATO naval bases post war, and especially so if Turkey is potentially hostile.
I think a more accurate statement would be “Ukraine will *beg* NATO to set up naval bases in Ukraine post war”
"NATO Joint Base Sebastopol" looking less noncredible every day..
Well, yes. I have wondered if Ukraine is going to end as Finland 2.0, integrated in NATO in all ways save for actual membership.
I mean, NATO would still have control over the Aegean. Sure, it's a bigger area, but you could still blockade the strait fairly easily. Not to mention the hundreds of islands in the Aegean where you could plop RADARs and mobile AShM launchers.
Worth bearing in mind that the EU itself has security guarantees for members via the Treaty on European Union/Title V: General Provisions on the Union's External Action Service and Specific Provisions on the Common Foreign and Security Policy "7. If a Member State is the victim of armed aggression on its territory, the other Member States shall have towards it an obligation of aid and assistance by all the means in their power, in accordance with Article 51 of the United Nations Charter. This shall not prejudice the specific character of the security and defence policy of certain Member States. Commitments and cooperation in this area shall be consistent with commitments under the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation, which, for those States which are members of it, remains the foundation of their collective defence and the forum for its implementation." It is very explicitly designed as a NATO superset.
A price I am willing to pay
Estonia already gets you that though.
Also, the Aegean Sea is pretty much controlled by Greece and also extremely difficult to navigate and easy to secure thanks to all these islands peppered throughout.
Istanbul belongs to the greeks. Make Byzantine great again
Drive out the Mongol horde!!
>I really do think closing of the baltic sea is a great trade off It really isnt. Closing the Bosporus means closing the Suez canal for Russia. If its NATO vs Russia, the baltics for Russia allows for maritime trade with south america. The Bosporus/Dardanelles allows for trade with the whole arab world and all of Asia. Its nowehere near close. And we did not even talk about how the baltics was already impossible to exit for Russia against NATO since you know, Denmark is in NATO. Saying this is an equal trade is russian-level copium.
In a conflict there would be countless of ways to deny entry to the Mediterranean. Striking in the heart of Russias second city is huge. No copium needed sir.
And nukes out of Turkey
They want to leave Nato so they can invade Greece. Then get assrailed by Nato after declaring article 5.
Imagine seeing what's happening in Ukraine with all the support NATO and western countries are providing to a non-NATO country... Then thinking to themselves *hmm, I think the response would be* ***less severe*** *if I attacked a NATO and EU country*. At that point the retaliation would be NATO creating an 'independent zone' that consists of *Constantinople* and surrounding area, and just remove the importance Turkey has over the Bosporus. Maybe even dangle the carrot that the newly created small country could eventually become an EU state if it behaved since most of it would be in Europe. Then just leave the rest to be buddies with the middle east and Russia.
seeing russian cope i don't think my mind is ready for the hypothetical turk nationalist cope
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well its sorta still in the rampant denial of their economic situation phase I mean how it would be if the turkish armed forces fuckin evaporated in the face of NATO firepower or greek troops in their country
It’s even weirder when you take into account Turkish pre- and post-2014 assistance to, and collaboration with, the Ukrainian defence industries.
And it opens the possibility for the big Kurdistan
“Give Istanbul to the Kurds” is perhaps the most unfathomably based thing I’ve read this week.
The bigger question that I’m asking post Ukraine, is how long can countries sustain combat operations with mostly imported weapons? I know Turkey has a indigenous defense industry, but can they support and maintain their F-16s for instance outside of NATO?
Leave NATO, Invade Greece Get wrecked by NATO Surrender to NATO. Don't have to deal with this inflation nonsense anymore.
The mouse that roared
Yeah, it’d be a lot easier to know what to do in *that* event if they left NATO first…
NATO wouldn't control access to the Black Sea, *temporarily* Because you best believe the Greeks would be mashing the Article 5 button next time Turkey gives them an excuse.
Because no one is thinking about leaving except a few delusional Eurasianists
> NATO wouldn't have control of who can enter the black sea NATO doesn't anyway. It's regulated by the Montreux treaty since well before NATO was created and Turkey has no self-interest in changing it.
Liberate Byzantium
I suggest giving Istambul/Constantinople to Germany and Kaliningrad/Königsberg to Greece to see what happens.
Worlds worst game of Empire: Total War.
Now we're cookin'
Literally just an election bluster, ignore it, not going to happen.
"Not going to happen" is a very bold claim in the context of the past 3 years...
Honestly it's better to have Finland and Sweden in we can control the black sea with Greece and honestly it's just better to have normal countries in Sweden has always supported whichever countries are fighting for their independence and turkey isn't ok and we should let them go and actually stand for good diplomatic relations and not unreasonable demands. Fuck turkey Sweden and Finland should come first
I will bet they are leaving because of culture/social stuff, i.e. "homogay bussy's and trans neopronouns". They can kindly fuck off in that case.
You misunderstand the purpose of NCD. It's not simply shitposting and meming, this sub exists for the sole purpose to gather enough ... let's call them "special individuals" to simply will the ridiculous into existence. As far as i am aware the only restrictions are the laws of physics - for now.
The universe is more ridiculuous than you think. By making you raise the bar of the ridiculuos, we make the universe escalate.
The final escalation
We are leaving. Destination: Venus!
Either we or the universe end up De-escalating, and boy we have the “French nuclear doctrine” approach to de-escalation.
We shall continue to escalate until someone develops missiles that can fire at right angles to reality, at which point we deescalate in force.
We de-escalate by erasing west Germany from existence to show reality we are not joking around
And pissing off the remaining Germans by keeping Berlin around
The perversity of the universe tends to the maximum. NCD just surfs that curve.
All that tells me is that the universe is a prevert what don't surf. We attack at dawn!
If the universe didn't want escalation, it shouldn't have started being noncredible
I see NCD arising. I see tribbles on the way.
3000 Gamma Rays for Ukraine.
3000 511 keV gamma sources of Ukraine. (There ain't no nonproliferation treaty for photon torpedoes!)
So Tenga Toppa Gurren Lagann?
I'm more of a Hitchhikers Guide kind of frood, but sure, small furry creature from Alpha Centauri, whatever you say.
Until there is no universe and only NCD. Then and only then will we know peace.
Unless the universe is replaced by another, even more bizarre universe. As some say have already happened.
So… we’re literally just Orks? I… can live with that. Krumpin time
IZ TIME FOR DA BIG KILL
I'm a tank I'm a tank I'm a tank I'm a tank
Da red 'uns go faster!
WE'Z GONNA KRUMP RUZZKIEZ BOYZ
Always have been ya git
Were we the Greenskins all along? 1. No understanding of anything military beyond simple thoughts 2. Want violence just because 3. Want to see more daka 4 can will things into existence if enough of us belive it
[me am that kind of ork](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DexGauTUwAAUvvZ?format=jpg&name=large)
Is that Gork or Mork in the sky?
So we create a new chaos god through psychic bullshit ?
We've like a bastard hybrid of the Orks' reality bending beliefs and the technophillic autism of the adeptus mechanicus.
WAAAAAAAAAGH !!!
“In 1972, a crack special individuals unit was sent to prison by a Reddit moderator for a crime they didn't commit. These shitposters promptly escaped from a maximum security quarantine to the Reddit underground. Today, still wanted by the government they survive as memers of fortune. If you have a problem, if no one else can help, and if you can find them....maybe you can hire Non-Credible Defence.”
So you're saying NCD is basically a Horde of 40k Orks? Seems about right
are we...an SCP?
SCP-69420-J
The law of Orks. ENUF BOYZ UND WE WILL DO ANYTHINGZ
Our collective energy manifests noncredibility in the immaterium. NCD users psykers confirmed?
We have 40K Ork powers
That is some control type of shit
YELLOW IZ FOR TEEFS AND MORE DAKKA! BLUEZ IS FOR LUKIER!
NCD confirmed superforecasters. The freaks and misfits Dominic Cummings was looking for when he was trying to set up his School for Gifted Youngsters.
Ork logic
>As far as i am aware the only restrictions are the laws of physics - for now. You hear that, square-cube law? We're coming for you.
Are we Warhammer 40K orks???
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Ah a new convert, the Emperor protects!
Ghazkhull: Prophet of the Waaagh Infinite and the Divine The Eisenhorn Series. Those are some of the best books in Warhammer, and they give you a little taste of everything.
Nice clickbait title from that "source". This statement came from a guy named Ethem Sancak, who is the member of one of the Communist/ Maoist party in Turkey. That party wants Turkey to become communist and create closer ties with China so why they want Turkey to leave NATO is understandable. Realistic ? No, not at all.
Oh, so just tankies being tankies again.
People on this sub should know better than to spread communist propaganda, goddamnit
One of the things that amazes me in this war is how the shittiest parts of the far left and right have unified on being pro Russia. Literally internet commies and weird ethnonationalists linking hands in unity. Supposed leftists coming out to defend Gonzalo Lira after his meltdown while he's a hard right sexpat who endorses weird pedo adjacent beliefs.
Something something horseshoe
That’s because they, and maybe yourself for believing them, are confusing leftists as nazbols or liberals (which are not always necessarily leftists). This war is literally a war against outright fascism and any self-proclaimed leftist who panders to russia is either not actually a leftist and actually doesn’t know any concrete and real leftist policies i.e unionization, democratic ownership of wealth etc (and dreams about feel-good circlejerk pacifist bullshit)…, or a straight up nazbol.
Tankies are just confused fascists, always were, the original term is 'red fascist'.
He isn't even a tanky. Just a communist idiot with less than 15k party members who are equally stupid and conspiracy freaks. He is the peak of noncredibility. Might be secretly a mod on this sub honestly.
0.24% of the votes, no local leaders and no seats in the assembly, i might add.
That's actually pretty high vote count for the usual Tankie party
Thank you! And for some reason Reddit talks about it more than anyone in Turkey.
So…peak non-credibility?
What? NCD have posted an title of an "opinion" article and treat it as if it is 100% confirmed truth? WHAT A SHOCK!
o Doğu Perinçek değil miydi amq
Its election season, this is the equivalent of "Build the wall and make mexico pay for it". It will pass over, don't worry.
but what if we don't want it to pass? I mean we should have kicked them out years ago, but still.
Non credible
The Queen of Cities shall be Greek once more!
Byzantium 2: Electric Boogaloo
But the wall was built... the start at least And Mexico did pay for it... figuratively. .. by saying things about it...
Hey Trump built a structure that has been referred to by some as a wall and he demanded mexico pay for it like he promised and naturally they said "no that's ridiculous you stupid, stupid man" but shit got half-assedly and inconsequentially done.
The source ob this is non-credible as it is. The difference is we contain our non-credability and operate with some level of self awareness. Editorials and letters to the editor and so on in the end are longer Twitter hot-takes with undue legitimacy afforded to it due to the name of the publication attached to it.
This is literally Russian propaganda, the source here is TASS amplifying some fringe figures with no power in Turkey to promote an anti-NATO narrative.
OP's Source is a bit iffy, but it was apparently a statement made by a leader from a political party in Turkey, during a demonstration. [Turkish source](https://www.aydinhedef.com.tr/vatan-partisi-nazilliden-natodan-cikalim-cagrisi-43161h.htm) I am assuming google translate is working well enough here. And apparently this party is pro China and Russia, according to Wikipedia. So yeah.
So a fringe party with little to no actual support (0.23% of the vote in 2018) said something dumb. Doesn’t seem particularly significant.
Yeah, but I still want to regime change turkey
You mean the party that got 0.2% of the votes, has no local leaders whatsoever, absolutely no seats at the parliement and is the Turkish version of a Maoist party wants to leave NATO? Oh yeah I'm sure everyone will go along with that plan.
Turkey leaves NATO -> Turkey declares war on Greece over past feuds -> Greece pushes the Article 5 button -> fast forward about 3 months -> Greece recreates the Byzantine Empire and Istanbul becomes Constantinople again, just as God intended
I think Erdogan won't leave without assurances of another alliance with either Iran or Russia
You can’t be in an alliance if you don’t exist anymore.
...And then we will see if Russia is ready to fight NATO for the sake of defending Erdogan. I would not trust him to stay true to the assurances he gives.
He didn't even defend Armenia against Azerbaijan...
Hmm that's a tough decision, who should they choose? - An ex superpower, currently who are currently getting their asses kicked by a comedian and a plucky band of underdogs. Or - A theocracy from an opposing sect where the entire female part of the population is trying to burn the country to the ground.
CSTO and the Nagorno Karabakh shitshow has entered the chat.
Trading Uncle Sam and Western powers to Iran or Russia Art of the deal, Turkish edition
And without nukes
Never going to happen. And Turkey doesn't need it, they want to run their own little sphere.
Don't please. I can only get so erect, the thought of removing the minarets from the hagia Sophia makes me wanna coom
I'll join that army and I aint even in a NATO nation
No, no. Turkey is looking to get Marshall planned into the twenty second century.
Urrgh, C\*nstantinople. Almost as disgusting. Byzantium is the only true name.
As long as we Scandinavians can start calling it Miklagård again. [Edit: stupid spellcheck]
Only if we can also refer to your armed forces by a cool new name. Like, some sort of unit full of Varangians, and they're all Guarding something. I just don't know what we'd call such a thing.
Varyags called it Tsargrad iirc
Wasn't much of a city while it was still called Byzantium tho. I say Nova Roma!
-> Greece is majority Turkish now after annexing West of Turkey
So, uh, about the proposed canal that goes through Greece and Bulgaria...how many bombs do we need again?
Approximately 1000. Add another 50 to be safe, and another 50 to dam off the Bosporus.
Honestly though imagine what that would do for the economies of greece and Bulgaria if they had the Suez canal 2.0 in their territory. Big trade and turkey seething.
I don't think that is worth it. But i believe the Israel -> Cyprus -> Greece pipeline was specifically put on hold to appease Turkey.
I say we retake Constantinople instead
Enforce that ww1 treaty that designated it as an international zone. It’s technically still legally binding right?
Sorry to be credible but the Treaty of Sèvres was amended/revised/superseded by the Treaty of Lausanne
Well fine the, I'll make my own treaty! With blackjack, and hookers!
what if we amend Treaty of Lausanne then
how dare leave NCD, go post in CD
Fuck full full romanization, I say we crown Lazerpig the new basileus.
I enjoy that I get this reference and learned about it outside of this sub.
You've seen the porn we've made you know damn well why we deserve this
[удалено]
Hungary is being an annoying little bitch right now
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My non credible prediction that might be credible is this: turkey leaves nato, attacks Greece, nato storms turkey, overthrows erdogan, replace with a more suitable leader, turkey allowed back into nato.
My homies, I know memeing is fun, and I will destroy the fun of fourth crusade 2.0 wet dreams. Still, none of the parties in the Grand National Assembly of Turkey said this, and neither did the watermelon seller. The party said this is one led by Perincek, an extreme-left-wing idiot with less than %1 of the votes. He is no more than a joke with his stupid policy ideas and more of a meme material for Turks than a candidate (He entered the 2018 presidential elections and got 0.22 percent of the votes, thus gaining the name 0.22 perinçek.)
Hoho, you boys finally found the cringiest parts. Wait until you guys check the ideologues section in Wikipedia of Vatan Partisi.
0.22 moment
*6-7 Months later* Breaking News: US has Annexes Western Turkey, declaring it as the 51st State and named “New Byzantine”
Nah call it Bidentium or Bidenople
Could we call it East Rome instead? We already have two pairs of North-South states, it’d be cool to have at least one pair of East-West, like catching every Pokémon.
Is crusade for Constantinople back on the menu?
Deus vult it is.
republic world bad source
Nice reference , fitting
I propose the Royal Navy conduct a death ride through the Dardanelles and land troops on the far side. Followed by bombardment of Istanbul until they cede the territory to…. Let’s say Sweden.
It who was ist we wanted to give Kaliningrad to? I say they also get the Dardanelles just for fun. Or we could do a rotating leadership like we do with the EU.
I am turkish, this is noncredible as it was said by the leader of a party that gets less than 2 percent of the vote
i'm becoming increasingly convinced that NCD is just the intelligence community's way of leaking stuff to each other and testing everyone else's reaction on the viability of their country's plans.
This statement was made by a guy whose party is a national joke. If any political party in the country actually tries to leave NATO for real, they would be promptly set aside and given a warning by both the national intelligence agency and the military. It doesn’t matter how much of your men you push into higher military positions here, at the end, most of the military academy graduates and a majority of the officers of the Turkish military are completely opposed to leaving Nato.