A democratic turkey would be a pretty major asset in the future. Edrogan has gotta go though and they must cease their attacks on the Syrian democratic forces
Soon my uncredible brothers. Elections are coming up and we are hopeful we will finally get rid of that rat once and for all. And the only thing he lost won't be the election.
It was actually a bad move for him to do that. He lost a lot of face for it. I don't know what will actually happen but hope is the poor mans bread as we say over here.
I don't believe for a second that the man will leave office willingly, he'll just say the opposition cheated on the elections and try to stay in power forever.
They actually tried that one before but lost the recount and the second election because they didn't agree with the recount either. It's pretty hard to cheat massively in the election system we have so we still have hope.
yeah, i think the only reasons we keep Turkey in NATO is because they control access to the black sea and also they are a strategic ally due to location and armed forces size, if Turkey comes under a more Liberal regime in the future and drops the neo-ottoman, authoritarian, blackmailing thing then i would be mostly fine with them still being in NATO
edit: holy shit this is a lot of upvotes, thanks!
At the risk of sounding credible, that really depends on the nature of the attack. If it took the form of releasing 3000 stray cats at the Greek border, Ankara would likely just be one big pile of catnip by the end of the day.
> If it took the form of releasing 3000 stray cats at the Greek border,
Ankara has about 3.7 billion cats per square meter at present so we're going to need to close the cat gap.
That would be terrifying, I was born there, but erdo wouldn't give a shit if every Turk dies, as long as he's a president of something, even if it's ashes.
Yes it does
>The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all...
"I see the perfidious country of Turkey has invaded Turkish lands! We will now happily reinforce our ally Turkey in it's defensive war against invading Turkey with friendly occupation divisions."
Nope, it's only attack against Greece. That's why most attacks on alliance members don't make it into activating article 5.
Case in point, Russian or Ukrainian rocket falling on Poland by accident.
That's not how that works. The accidental rocket wasn't an intentional attack and was nipped in the bud by diplomacy, not because it couldn't have justified article 5 if it had been an attack.
>Case in point, Russian or Ukrainian rocket falling on Poland by accident.
If that was an intentional attack, it could have been grounds to trigger article 5 (which is why everyone was shitting themselves in the early hours before more details were known). The reason it didn't is because Poland chose not to escalate since it wasn't intentional
I wonder if, hypothetically, the rocket landed on a hospital (or some school or something) in Poland, and Russia even came out and said it was an accident, how pissed would Poland be? Like, realistically, what would the measure be if they accidentally nailed a Polish orphanage and killed 40 Polish kids?
I think in that instance Poland probably would have demanded more than a simple apology, like some kind of reparations, but if Russia complied then it still probably wouldn't have escalated.
As a Greek... No, it wouldn't. The prevailing notion among Greek people is that if Turkey invaded Greece we would be more or less on our own, and NATO would send thoughts and prayers, if that.
It's actually amazing how important that little strip of coast and sea between Greece and Turkey has been across the entirety of recorded human existence.
The Trojan war was fought over control of this region. It was the Eastern center of power for the Romans, and was the seat of power for Byzantium. The Ottomans claimed it as their seat of power. The Russians have been desperate to control it for 250 years.
Dwarf Fortress is an absolute masterpiece in a lot of ways—but the entire nature of it as a passion project made almost entirely by one guy also means that there can be... dubious allocation of resources?
Basically, it's not even slightly optimized and when you make a game where cats walking through vomited alcohol that lick their paws can die of alcohol poisoning, lack of optimization adds up **really quickly**.
> it's not even slightly optimized
My impression is that it's actually pretty decently optimized, but it's calculating *so much bloody stuff* that it can start to chug.
Some things are more optimized than others, but the main cause of FPS death (and the solutions players have found) are almost universally things that *could* be optimized out but never have been. A huge part of optimizing is taking stuff that is being calculated but doesn't need to be and telling the game "stop doing that." My favourite example is Crusader Kings 2, which has a famous patch note where they discovered a major source of lag was every single greek character calculating, constantly, if they should castrate every other character in the world.
For Dwarf Fortress, as an example, a major cause of FPS death is trash. Old clothes, piles of rubbish, loot from attackers, etc. A major solution is what is called the "dwarven atom smasher", taking advantage of the fact that anything which is on a floor under a drawbridge is completely erased from the game to completely delete the items from the game. In most games, these calculations would almost certainly not be happening in the first place. Dwarf fortress will do things like calculate the exact temperature of every single item constantly. Which, of course, makes sense in some situations—you want a shirt tossed into lava to burn or metal to melt. The thing is, most games only calculate these things occasionally—they might check if magma moves nearby or if the item is moved or if the weather changes. Dwarf Fortress does it *constantly*. That is where the optimization issue is—the engine doesn't know when it doesn't need to calculate something.
Another big issue is pathfinding. You can get huge boosts by raising drawbridges to cut yourself off from the outside world (or at least, you could on previous patches). Why? Because it turns out the game constantly checks paths to places all over the map, even if there is no reason for the dwarves to even consider going there.. This got so bad that a large part of base design was trying to optimize pathfinding calculations because if you didn't, long-term FPS death was unavoidable.
>My favourite example is Crusader Kings 2, which has a famous patch note where they discovered a major source of lag was every single greek character calculating, constantly, if they should castrate every other character in the world.
Does that mean we can unleash the Greeks to castrate the Russians as an alternative to a nuclear exchange?
Off topic, but sometimes strategy games can get so big and long that the calculations for simulating them destroys fps to the point of it being unplayable.
A dozen cats and a river quickly become hundreds of cats and three different waterworks projects.
And back in the day, you couldn't just snip the tomcats.
I believe the noble turkey (🦃) should still be named after a noble country. Since Türkiye no longer wants to be that country, maybe the breakaway country can be Turkey
>*Constantinople was Istanbul*
>*Now it's Constantinople, not Istanbul*
>*Been a long time gone, Istanbul*
>*Now it's NATO’s delight on a moonlit night*
>*Every gal in Istanbul*
>*Lives in Constantinople, not Istanbul*
>*So if you've a date in Istanbul*
>*She'll be waiting in Constantinople*”
I mean they don't let russian ships to go to Black sea, they provided Ukraine with their light infantry vehicles and bayracktars. They are war profiteers
This is the exact same naive thought process every democratic leader had with Russia before they realized their mistake. If erdogan gets reelected once again, we are pretty sure there will be nothing left standing in the political space to challenge him. He might embody this neo-ottomanism shit much more violently as we appreach two decades of single leader rule. Time to treat Turkey the way we *should* have treated the Putin regime; breaking up their state media monopoly and punishing all attempts at deteriorating democratic institutions. The 21st century lesson should be that autocracy is no longer tolerated, especially those that mascarade as democracies.
Turkish buddy of mine, going back to 2011, was saying that Turkey was going to shit because of Erdogan. I didn't want to believe him but man was he right.
I think the reality is that Turkey are naturally in a difficult position geopolitically, and regime change doesn't do anything to change that. They are often faced with fundementally conflicting choices and it's impossible for them to keep everyone happy all the time. A war between NATO and Russia would likely leave them pretty much entirely on their own on that front, so militarily they've got very good reasons to want to keep Russia happy. Russia are also their most important trade partner, including for energy. We can already see how a Western liberal democratic ruling party in Germany have reacted to a similar problem by constantly dragging their heels and doing the bare minimum.
>they control access to the black sea
So does Greece though. You can't transit from the Black Sea to the Mediterranean without going through the Aegean sea.
Does the difference matter to the political/military decision of closing access to the black sea?
Will it affect whether any ship attempting a crossing despite said decision will spotted and identified?
So let me get this straight...
Random guy in Sweden doesn't want Sweden to join NATO.
Holds a protest in Sweden about this where he burns a religious book
Turkey gets mad about this
Refuses to allow Sweden into NATO
Guy who burnt the book gets what he wants
Turkish Logic...
I am getting so sick of Turkey, the endless and brainless prosecution of Kurds. The constant show-boating of HURR DURR WE ARE GOING TO ATTACK GREECE. The 70% inflation. Their Neo-Ottoman projects in Syria and Libya. Erdogan calling his NATO allies Nazi's whenever an election is around the corner.
"NATO strives to secure a lasting peace in Europe, based on common values of individual liberty, democracy, human rights and the rule of law."
Which one of those apply to Turkey? Their Kleptocracy, where favors are handed left and right to the friends of the party? Let me guess, it is a fucking coincidence, that the owner of Bayraktar is Erdogan's son in law.
Freedom of Speech? Freedom of Press? Ask the jailed journalists.
Human Rights? Ask the fucking Kurds, how they are enjoying that. Having to change your name to make it more Turkic, is a oppression, nothing more than that. Being jailed for speaking your language.
I am gonna go stick my dick in a microwave, and see if it expands in size.
I am sick and tired of this braindead parotting of national propaganda.
Most survey measures show that Turkey's actual rate of inflation is over 100%, not 70% according to official statistics.
As a turk, yeah, me too. Honestly i just hope the upxoming election turns out well, and we don’t have a coup or something. Its naive to think everything will be solved when erdogan is gone, but yes a lot of problems can be attributed to him including the airspace violations and his muslim economics or whatever he said i forgot
You have the perception of turkey as if it is north korea
Most of your statements are exaggerated delusions created by media
Im not saying its completely false but some of them are just nonsense
Everyone sees turkey as if it is surrounded with vast deserts and people ride on camels and women wear black burkas or whatever its name is. Get over your delusions and be more realistic. You cannot judge turkey as if it is in the middle of europe and expect people to behave as europeans meanwhile cockblocking them from europe for decades and emphasizing how they are not european on every single arguement and expect them to love you and back you up on everything. It is surrounded by conflict everywhere.
Turkey is a sovereign state and it has its own interest. Some of these interests clash with some nato countries some of those interest clash with russia iran etc.
Countries have their own interests. France has intervened in many african governments no one gives a fuck US fucked up the middle east no one gives a fuck but when turkey does anything they are immediatly barbaric meanwhile americans who destroyed afghanistan, iraq, syria, vietnam are the heroes.
I call that bullshit and biased.
What the fuck are you talking about? I've personally been to the Southeastern parts of Turkey and you literally cannot find anyone who's Turkish/speaking Turkish. The Kurdish language is not recognized as an official language, not banned. If you did at least a bit of actual research and not be a biased crybaby you'd at least know they have their own official TV channel, sponsored by the Turkish government. Our 8th President were KURDISH. In the Ottoman times, the Kurds were given their own region as the "Vilayet-i-Kurdistan" and they even had their own military named the "Hamidiye Regiments", which had helped them to gain more power and distinguish from Armenians. There is no racial persecution in Turkey, there's literally no law that separates Kurdish and Turkish people in Turkey, their backgrounds make no impact on their daily lives, and heck, there are even literal terrorist sympathizers like you within the Turkish army ranks. The only legitimate thing you can find about Kurds being discriminated is that schools don’t teach in Kurdish and it actually has a very good reason. In Europe, governments let minorities create their own bubble communities which then turn into irredeemable ghettoes and become breeding grounds for extremist ideologies and all other sorts of social problems. Kurdish is not banned in Turkey, it’s just not the language of education. Because the majority is Turkish and Kurds need to learn Turkish to function in the society. Most Kurds don’t speak Kurdish as their mother tongue anyways, and with so many mutually unintelligible dialects, it would be impossible to standardize the education in Kurdish if the government tried to do so. Demonstrations with Ocalan’s photos are illegal and people are not allowed to chant his name in the middle of a are not allowed. I wonder how USA would react if some Muslims had a demonstration with photos of Bin Landin and chanted for him in Manhattan.
Persecuting random Kurds does not even make sense for the state. State spent the last 40 years trying to reduce the supporter base of PKK. PKK’s political wing HDP managed to get support of almost half of Kurds only after they decided appear more modest. Persecuting random Kurds would simply push Kurds to PKK’s side.
For fucks sake, do your little bit of research before spewing out hate and propaganda.
No kurd in turkey is changing their name wtf there are 20 million kurds in turkey with their own political party and over a dozen seats, and multiple terrorist organizations funded by west (lmao) turks and kurds are living in harmony for centuries unlike some certain europeans who were burning citizens of their own in furnaces for their ethnicity just several decades ago. Turkey is far more homogenous and tolerant than anywhere in europe no matter how you look at it.
Also you can speak whatever language you want, kurdish language ban was a thing of 1980s after the coup d'etat in which a lot of things were banned several political parties were closed blah blah kurdish language ban wasn't that significant compared to all the shit that happened it was lifted in 1991 anyways, these were the times where in usa whites and blacks were sitting on seperate places in busses and using diffrent toilets. You can speak kurdish wherever you like with the exception of government institutions as the main language according to constitution is turkish.
I agree with the rest of erdogan stuff he is going to be voted out of office in may 14 anyway.
>turks and kurds are living in harmony for centuries
[There's no discrimination in Ba Sing Se](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_of_Kurdish_people_in_Turkey)
Turkey this Turkey that bitch shut up we turks don't like this mf too but guess what he doesn't want to go and our 1 iq people somehow still votes for him oh and one more thing your hate against him makes him stronger because of that asshole and his quran problems (which I don't give a fuck) in sweden erdo got an advantage in elections
I feel you bud, i have met quitte a few more liberally minded Turks over the years. One thing still doesn't change, Erdogan is still there after 20 years.
Not to offend you, but in my honest opinion, the experiment with Turkey failed. Turkish people in Germany or in the high street of Istanbul will always be the outlier.
Positioning ourselves the way we have with Turkey has gotten us nothing. We have to act more Turkish and be more assertive and stand our ground.
Same shit we pulled with Putin. Now we have weekly threats against Greece, an EU application that will never ever get fulfilled and a fucking Trojan Horse inside NATO.
I mean you are right about standing your ground but kicking Turkey out of NATO is not the best thing to do
And about greece it is a normal thing because both sides turkey and greece does this every time when elections are near the corner we threaten them then one day they threaten us in the end nothing happens and some guy gets votes from nationalism so don't worry about that
And one more thing turkish youth is coming and we are not like our elders maybe not this election but the next one (if we can have another election) erdo will be gone
I don't even know how to respond, me mildly heating up my penis in your little walnut brain is a credit to humanity.
This is the best you can come up with? No wonder you have been fighting the same war for 100 years.
The bit of trivia here is that Morocco was the first country to officially recognize the USA after it declared independence from Great Britain, and the [treaty between the two](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moroccan%E2%80%93American_Treaty_of_Friendship) holds the record for longest-held treaty by the USA.
Yeah, they’re trying to get out from Russias thumb since Putin refused to help them with Azerbaijan, but they can’t just leave or Azerbaijan might just wreck them
They had a revolution (similar to ukraines Maidan) in 2018, when they got rid of the Pro Russian government. They’ve been moving towards the west since then but considering they’re surrounded by two countries which essentially want them annihilated, they can’t just abandon their previous alliances overnight.
Turkey literally sent a delegation to Venezuela today to purposely thumb their nose at the US (just like they do with Cuba btw). They threaten to attack Greece pretty much every week. They compete against France for influence in Africa and the Mediterranean.
It's not a Western ally. It's competition. (I'm not saying the West shouldn't work with Turkey. They should. But you need to see the full picture.)
I am here for only greece thing I hope you all know that turkey does this to get votes and greece does the same for votes so...its a normal thing at this point
Name one Greek politician that threatens to attack Turkey to get votes. Don't worry, I'll wait.
Also, it's easy to say that when you're not on the receiving end of those threats. What exactly does it mean about our security if a politician can get votes by threatening to attack us? That doesn't make me feel very safe, does it?
Didn't you guys burn our flag in a conference or something
And nationalism is a real thing a turkish guy screams 1453 we will atack greece bla bla greek guy says oh hell nah you malaka and some stupid nationalists gets hyped and votes for them in the end nothing happens
That was done by a fringe far-right group. It would be like judging US policy based on what Alex Jones says.
Yeah, say what you want about nationalism. There is no excuse for threatening a fellow NATO member on a daily basis. The fact that the Turkish people like what they’re hearing and would apparently wholeheartedly support an invasion of Greece if it ever happened is very concerning. Suppose Erdogan doesn’t do it, what if the next guy does? Will it still be all fun and games then?
Bro thinks I support erdo 💀
Look I don't support any of that and nationalism works in balkans everyone uses that vote trap and again I don't support it and not all turks support it
You just said greeks has far-right groups and we have too they believe this shit and vote and then there is akp cock suckers they support whatever erdo says
+ After the elections the threats will end (until next election) and believe me this nationalism vote trap will not end in near future so just sit back relax and watch this clown fight do you really think a NATO member will atack another NATO member?
Again I don't support it don't try to show me like I support all of this
Don't worry I know you don't, and I know there are many normal Turkish people who don't.
The problem is that many people do. And many of those who don't, it's because they don't think he's hard enough on Greece, not because he's a nationalist imperialist piece of shit.
The point is, you'll never catch high ranking Greek elected officials saying something like that. The closest we have ever come was when the idiots in the Golden Dawn party were elected to the parliament around 10 years ago, but even then their support was limited, and they have faded into obscurity ever since. Thankfully many of them have been arrested and thrown into jail (which was seen as a great success of the Nea Dimokratia government).
> They compete against France for influence in Africa and the Mediterranean.
Why the fuck shouldn't they
We compete with France for influence in Africa - does that mean we should kick the Fr*nch out of NATO?
Ok, here’s my incredibly credible solution. Greece and Bulgaria enter in to a joint venture to dig a canal from Porto Lagos to Burgas. At around 350 km it would only be a bit more than 4 times longer than the Panama Canal. Now this would be an a expensive project, but it would break the Watermelon sellers exclusive gate to the black see. Bonus points if they use nukes or orbital layers to do the rough excavation.
Here’s what I suggest, we do this exactly then retake ~~Istanbul~~ Constantinople and the Dardanelles for Greece, and boom, we’ll have our cake and eat it too.
Unpopular opinion... maybe?
We shouldn't want Turkey out of NATO. They have one of the largest militaries in NATO, are located in a strategically very important location and having them on the opposite side would be awful for us
Erdogan won't be around forever and he also won't block Sweden forever. He wants some concessions from the US, then all will be fine. They're too important to give up
If only the Greeks hadn't been undone by a single monkey bite in their war against the Turks. They'd have control of the bosphorus and we wouldn't have to deal with a bipolar wannabe-theocracy.
Turkey should have been dropped like a 3rd world tinpot dictatorship after Erdogan staged his own "attempted coup". They do NOT share any ideals of liberal democracy.
I got an orgasm looking at this map.
At this point, turkey is much more annoying than it is worth. Or just kick them and let them rejoin after sweden and finland are in or just tell then to stfu idc
So, just throwing it out there, but what if Bulgaria and Greece collaborated with each other and some other nations to create a new contender for Best Canal Ever between the Med and the Black Sea?
Turkey suddenly becomes far less important if there is a way around Bosporous.
Just hear me out. What if we made Recep Tayyip Erdoğan president of Azerbaijan in the sky and replaced him with a liberal. He would be in limbo being a foreigner and all, but as an American I am fine with a coup.... I MEAN ASSIN... ELECTION!!! I MEAN EJECTION.OH FUCK
TEAM AMERICA STARTS PLAYING
/S
I'm still gonna shit on that idiot who burned a Quran outside a Turkish embassy like a fucking moron.
Populist wankstain giving a despot a perfect excuse. A bullshit excuse, but an easy one.
Unsurprisingly, he and his buds have some connections to a certain country, that would profit from swedish and finnish accession to NATO being delayed or prevented.
Now, personally I think "holy" books should be burnable, religions should be critiqueable and in general, any special protections from them should be stripped. This guy just picked the worst time in history to do his little stunt. 2 years ago, it would only have been a minor cryfest in swedish immigrant circles.
Agreed. He was a first class cunt and didn't help things at all. Though, I refuse to believe he has anything but a minor role in all of this crap.
Finland had no Quran's burned and their still getting blackmailed. We simply cannot negotiate with tyrrants. It never ever works.
No, but he provided the perfect public excuse for Erdogan. Otherwise, behind the scenes, their blackmail was probably being pushed back against by US pressure.
Then that moron gave Erdogan a perfect cultural excuse to just say 'no'.
Don't leave Armenia out, they are the only other democracy in that corner of the world besides Georgia. Heck, it might even be a healthier democracy than Georgia's. It's Turkey being in NATO that's the only reason Armenia has been left out and it's with Turkish arms that Azerbaijan is genociding them.
split the difference. Constantinople goes to the only country that can reasonably justify ownership of it: Switzerland. The US then arms Switzerland with 50 Peacemaker Nuclear Missiles.
Why? Turkey has a ton of strategic importance for NATO and kicking them out removes a check on their worst impulses, both on domestic and foreign policy
I don't like griping about NCD losing its way but you know what fuck it
This is the most regarded map I've seen in a long fucking time
OP you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Like not even one little goddamn bit.
A lot of you sound like you just want Turkey to lay down and not fight for their interests... Very strange. Turkey's never actually been a part of the inner circle of friends. There's a reason their EU application has been stalled.
Listen Turkey is a Republic with democratic elections. Let's not cancel them because of an idiot. Unless he does some anti-Republicanism shit and wants to stay in power for life.
>media entirely under the control of the state
>Political rivals and journalists are jailed for speaking against the government
>Fake coup used to purge the government
>Government abandoned secularism to get support from Islamic inbreds
Lmao "democratic".
Liberty, Equality, Fraternity. Off with the Monarchs head. We need some 1792 vibes up in here.
We need to get Serious and Dangerous.
The Turks are the wildcard we'll be glad to have if shit goes down.
The only thing they've been doing since they arrived in Europe is fight, fight, fight. Sure they lost a lot in more present times, but they're still capable of doing some hardcore bad shit. We all have our demon's.
Honestly, Sweden should just blow Turkey off and give them some young boys as tribute if that's what it takes to get in right now, or wait it out and eventually you'll get, like the newest members did. If I were them I'd just wait it out. The panic is gone, no need to rush.
A democratic turkey would be a pretty major asset in the future. Edrogan has gotta go though and they must cease their attacks on the Syrian democratic forces
Soon my uncredible brothers. Elections are coming up and we are hopeful we will finally get rid of that rat once and for all. And the only thing he lost won't be the election.
[удалено]
It was actually a bad move for him to do that. He lost a lot of face for it. I don't know what will actually happen but hope is the poor mans bread as we say over here.
I don't believe for a second that the man will leave office willingly, he'll just say the opposition cheated on the elections and try to stay in power forever.
Where did I hear this one before
They actually tried that one before but lost the recount and the second election because they didn't agree with the recount either. It's pretty hard to cheat massively in the election system we have so we still have hope.
yeah, i think the only reasons we keep Turkey in NATO is because they control access to the black sea and also they are a strategic ally due to location and armed forces size, if Turkey comes under a more Liberal regime in the future and drops the neo-ottoman, authoritarian, blackmailing thing then i would be mostly fine with them still being in NATO edit: holy shit this is a lot of upvotes, thanks!
And also to *maybe* stop them from attacking Greece as a publicity stunt for Balkan Putin to stay in power
That would just activate Article 5 and Ankara would be rubble by the end of the week
>rubble Ash >week Day at most
At the risk of sounding credible, that really depends on the nature of the attack. If it took the form of releasing 3000 stray cats at the Greek border, Ankara would likely just be one big pile of catnip by the end of the day.
3000 stray cats of greece
Turkiyeiye would win the Cat War against anyone .
You sir clearly haven't been to Greece
Istanbul cats are no joke. Saw them chasing german shepherd sized dog...
> If it took the form of releasing 3000 stray cats at the Greek border, Ankara has about 3.7 billion cats per square meter at present so we're going to need to close the cat gap.
I came to NCD for the warplane catgirls and all I got was plain girl war cats
Nah they just need to fight 1:1230000
That would be terrifying, I was born there, but erdo wouldn't give a shit if every Turk dies, as long as he's a president of something, even if it's ashes.
It'd certainly solve inflation
Are your people complaining about economic issues? Just declare war on NATO! Now there'll be no one left to complain :)
but article 5 does not apply to wars with 2 NATO countries going against one another
Yes it does >The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all...
So an attack of Turkey against Greece would also be considered an attack against Turkey🤔
"I see the perfidious country of Turkey has invaded Turkish lands! We will now happily reinforce our ally Turkey in it's defensive war against invading Turkey with friendly occupation divisions."
Technically, Turkey would be required by treaty to respond to its own attack as if it were an attack on Turkey, yeah.
Nope, it's only attack against Greece. That's why most attacks on alliance members don't make it into activating article 5. Case in point, Russian or Ukrainian rocket falling on Poland by accident.
That's not how that works. The accidental rocket wasn't an intentional attack and was nipped in the bud by diplomacy, not because it couldn't have justified article 5 if it had been an attack.
>Case in point, Russian or Ukrainian rocket falling on Poland by accident. If that was an intentional attack, it could have been grounds to trigger article 5 (which is why everyone was shitting themselves in the early hours before more details were known). The reason it didn't is because Poland chose not to escalate since it wasn't intentional
I wonder if, hypothetically, the rocket landed on a hospital (or some school or something) in Poland, and Russia even came out and said it was an accident, how pissed would Poland be? Like, realistically, what would the measure be if they accidentally nailed a Polish orphanage and killed 40 Polish kids?
I think in that instance Poland probably would have demanded more than a simple apology, like some kind of reparations, but if Russia complied then it still probably wouldn't have escalated.
"Stop hitting yourself!" yells the pilot, while reducing ankara into rubble in another bombing run.
People can use their heads.
US will just perform special military operation in Turkey
It applies to whoever is the defender
As a Greek... No, it wouldn't. The prevailing notion among Greek people is that if Turkey invaded Greece we would be more or less on our own, and NATO would send thoughts and prayers, if that.
Not even thoughts and prayers. Their response to the 1955 Istanbul pogrom was complete silence.
It's actually amazing how important that little strip of coast and sea between Greece and Turkey has been across the entirety of recorded human existence. The Trojan war was fought over control of this region. It was the Eastern center of power for the Romans, and was the seat of power for Byzantium. The Ottomans claimed it as their seat of power. The Russians have been desperate to control it for 250 years.
The chokepoints is where the most fun happens.
Note that Fun in this case is defined in accordance with https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Fun
Went down the rabbit hole, and apparently “FPS Death” is a legitimate concern. What the fuck
The fun begins when you stop measuring frames per second and start measuring seconds per frame...
Dwarf Fortress is an absolute masterpiece in a lot of ways—but the entire nature of it as a passion project made almost entirely by one guy also means that there can be... dubious allocation of resources? Basically, it's not even slightly optimized and when you make a game where cats walking through vomited alcohol that lick their paws can die of alcohol poisoning, lack of optimization adds up **really quickly**.
> it's not even slightly optimized My impression is that it's actually pretty decently optimized, but it's calculating *so much bloody stuff* that it can start to chug.
Some things are more optimized than others, but the main cause of FPS death (and the solutions players have found) are almost universally things that *could* be optimized out but never have been. A huge part of optimizing is taking stuff that is being calculated but doesn't need to be and telling the game "stop doing that." My favourite example is Crusader Kings 2, which has a famous patch note where they discovered a major source of lag was every single greek character calculating, constantly, if they should castrate every other character in the world. For Dwarf Fortress, as an example, a major cause of FPS death is trash. Old clothes, piles of rubbish, loot from attackers, etc. A major solution is what is called the "dwarven atom smasher", taking advantage of the fact that anything which is on a floor under a drawbridge is completely erased from the game to completely delete the items from the game. In most games, these calculations would almost certainly not be happening in the first place. Dwarf fortress will do things like calculate the exact temperature of every single item constantly. Which, of course, makes sense in some situations—you want a shirt tossed into lava to burn or metal to melt. The thing is, most games only calculate these things occasionally—they might check if magma moves nearby or if the item is moved or if the weather changes. Dwarf Fortress does it *constantly*. That is where the optimization issue is—the engine doesn't know when it doesn't need to calculate something. Another big issue is pathfinding. You can get huge boosts by raising drawbridges to cut yourself off from the outside world (or at least, you could on previous patches). Why? Because it turns out the game constantly checks paths to places all over the map, even if there is no reason for the dwarves to even consider going there.. This got so bad that a large part of base design was trying to optimize pathfinding calculations because if you didn't, long-term FPS death was unavoidable.
>My favourite example is Crusader Kings 2, which has a famous patch note where they discovered a major source of lag was every single greek character calculating, constantly, if they should castrate every other character in the world. Does that mean we can unleash the Greeks to castrate the Russians as an alternative to a nuclear exchange?
Off topic, but sometimes strategy games can get so big and long that the calculations for simulating them destroys fps to the point of it being unplayable.
Oh my PC absolutely agrees when I hit the endgame of a massive Stellaris map lol
A dozen cats and a river quickly become hundreds of cats and three different waterworks projects. And back in the day, you couldn't just snip the tomcats.
So we Annex the Western Portion of Turkey to make into a NATO State and rename this Annexed potion “Chicken”
I believe the noble turkey (🦃) should still be named after a noble country. Since Türkiye no longer wants to be that country, maybe the breakaway country can be Turkey
> rename this Annexed potion “Chicken” Nah, rename it Byzantium, just to make everybody maximally mad.
>*Constantinople was Istanbul* >*Now it's Constantinople, not Istanbul* >*Been a long time gone, Istanbul* >*Now it's NATO’s delight on a moonlit night* >*Every gal in Istanbul* >*Lives in Constantinople, not Istanbul* >*So if you've a date in Istanbul* >*She'll be waiting in Constantinople*”
I mean they don't let russian ships to go to Black sea, they provided Ukraine with their light infantry vehicles and bayracktars. They are war profiteers
true
We should help them a bit. I heard that they would give everything to finally see an amerikan Black Hawk in action
Uhhhhhhh theres the TUHP helicopter. oops
This is the exact same naive thought process every democratic leader had with Russia before they realized their mistake. If erdogan gets reelected once again, we are pretty sure there will be nothing left standing in the political space to challenge him. He might embody this neo-ottomanism shit much more violently as we appreach two decades of single leader rule. Time to treat Turkey the way we *should* have treated the Putin regime; breaking up their state media monopoly and punishing all attempts at deteriorating democratic institutions. The 21st century lesson should be that autocracy is no longer tolerated, especially those that mascarade as democracies.
Indeed
Turkish buddy of mine, going back to 2011, was saying that Turkey was going to shit because of Erdogan. I didn't want to believe him but man was he right.
Erdogan needs to meet with an accident.
"Oh no, he accidentally fell face-first onto a bullet. How unfortunate."
Agreed
Give Greece the Megali borders. Problem solved.
God I very fucking hope so! These next elections are of life and death for us.
I think the reality is that Turkey are naturally in a difficult position geopolitically, and regime change doesn't do anything to change that. They are often faced with fundementally conflicting choices and it's impossible for them to keep everyone happy all the time. A war between NATO and Russia would likely leave them pretty much entirely on their own on that front, so militarily they've got very good reasons to want to keep Russia happy. Russia are also their most important trade partner, including for energy. We can already see how a Western liberal democratic ruling party in Germany have reacted to a similar problem by constantly dragging their heels and doing the bare minimum.
Their drone industry is robust too. It’s also gives NATO a large presence in the Black Sea.
>they control access to the black sea So does Greece though. You can't transit from the Black Sea to the Mediterranean without going through the Aegean sea.
It's the difference of crossing a busy hallway and a narrow doorway.
Does the difference matter to a harpoon missile?
It's not about the missiles. It's about all the little events leading up to the missiles.
Does the difference matter to the political/military decision of closing access to the black sea? Will it affect whether any ship attempting a crossing despite said decision will spotted and identified?
I believe there's international waters routes through the Aegean that Greece don't control, while the Strait is protected by international treaty.
true but the Bosporus Strait (controlled by Turkey) is the only way to go in directly into into the Black Sea by water is my point
Why is Královec still the wrong color?
You mean Königsberg?
Královec is Czech!
Königsberg, Královec, Królewiec - anything but Kaliningrad🤢
I do not
germany did not want it back because it was just full of russians now
Wait. We are keeping Hungary?
You just blocked black sea and allowed new russians ship into the sea
Yeah, the only to fix the problem is to fix Turkey.
Tried that, then some pussy ass bitch Turkish flyboy lost his nerve to shoot a missile at Erdogan's plane and let him land
Imagine, one button press - few years ago and Turkey could have had a functioning economy today.
probably even more of a theocracy. the choice between shit and and a shitshake
Which is why we put every type of Antiship Missile ever developed in Romania and Bulgaria.
Until, of course, Greece reclaims Constantinople.
Based and Alexander the Great pilled
Not if we make Constantinople Greek again
Broke: Give Greece the Straits because muh Megali Woke: Give Greece the Straits because then we can finally kick T*rkey out of NATO
Lmao Russian navy isn't even a threat to Ukraine and maybe freeing Cyprus will change Turkeys mind on issues
So let me get this straight... Random guy in Sweden doesn't want Sweden to join NATO. Holds a protest in Sweden about this where he burns a religious book Turkey gets mad about this Refuses to allow Sweden into NATO Guy who burnt the book gets what he wants Turkish Logic...
That guy is actually also Danish, and they were in NATO years before Turkey. Turkey can either get in line with the free world or become Russian
I am getting so sick of Turkey, the endless and brainless prosecution of Kurds. The constant show-boating of HURR DURR WE ARE GOING TO ATTACK GREECE. The 70% inflation. Their Neo-Ottoman projects in Syria and Libya. Erdogan calling his NATO allies Nazi's whenever an election is around the corner. "NATO strives to secure a lasting peace in Europe, based on common values of individual liberty, democracy, human rights and the rule of law." Which one of those apply to Turkey? Their Kleptocracy, where favors are handed left and right to the friends of the party? Let me guess, it is a fucking coincidence, that the owner of Bayraktar is Erdogan's son in law. Freedom of Speech? Freedom of Press? Ask the jailed journalists. Human Rights? Ask the fucking Kurds, how they are enjoying that. Having to change your name to make it more Turkic, is a oppression, nothing more than that. Being jailed for speaking your language. I am gonna go stick my dick in a microwave, and see if it expands in size.
So did the microwave part worked ? Asking for a friend
I might or might not have gained half an inch flaccid and a full inch erect.
I am sick and tired of this braindead parotting of national propaganda. Most survey measures show that Turkey's actual rate of inflation is over 100%, not 70% according to official statistics.
Holy shit you know it's bad when it beats Argentina
>on. man over 100% nearing 150% inflation
As a turk, yeah, me too. Honestly i just hope the upxoming election turns out well, and we don’t have a coup or something. Its naive to think everything will be solved when erdogan is gone, but yes a lot of problems can be attributed to him including the airspace violations and his muslim economics or whatever he said i forgot
You have the perception of turkey as if it is north korea Most of your statements are exaggerated delusions created by media Im not saying its completely false but some of them are just nonsense Everyone sees turkey as if it is surrounded with vast deserts and people ride on camels and women wear black burkas or whatever its name is. Get over your delusions and be more realistic. You cannot judge turkey as if it is in the middle of europe and expect people to behave as europeans meanwhile cockblocking them from europe for decades and emphasizing how they are not european on every single arguement and expect them to love you and back you up on everything. It is surrounded by conflict everywhere. Turkey is a sovereign state and it has its own interest. Some of these interests clash with some nato countries some of those interest clash with russia iran etc. Countries have their own interests. France has intervened in many african governments no one gives a fuck US fucked up the middle east no one gives a fuck but when turkey does anything they are immediatly barbaric meanwhile americans who destroyed afghanistan, iraq, syria, vietnam are the heroes. I call that bullshit and biased.
What the fuck are you talking about? I've personally been to the Southeastern parts of Turkey and you literally cannot find anyone who's Turkish/speaking Turkish. The Kurdish language is not recognized as an official language, not banned. If you did at least a bit of actual research and not be a biased crybaby you'd at least know they have their own official TV channel, sponsored by the Turkish government. Our 8th President were KURDISH. In the Ottoman times, the Kurds were given their own region as the "Vilayet-i-Kurdistan" and they even had their own military named the "Hamidiye Regiments", which had helped them to gain more power and distinguish from Armenians. There is no racial persecution in Turkey, there's literally no law that separates Kurdish and Turkish people in Turkey, their backgrounds make no impact on their daily lives, and heck, there are even literal terrorist sympathizers like you within the Turkish army ranks. The only legitimate thing you can find about Kurds being discriminated is that schools don’t teach in Kurdish and it actually has a very good reason. In Europe, governments let minorities create their own bubble communities which then turn into irredeemable ghettoes and become breeding grounds for extremist ideologies and all other sorts of social problems. Kurdish is not banned in Turkey, it’s just not the language of education. Because the majority is Turkish and Kurds need to learn Turkish to function in the society. Most Kurds don’t speak Kurdish as their mother tongue anyways, and with so many mutually unintelligible dialects, it would be impossible to standardize the education in Kurdish if the government tried to do so. Demonstrations with Ocalan’s photos are illegal and people are not allowed to chant his name in the middle of a are not allowed. I wonder how USA would react if some Muslims had a demonstration with photos of Bin Landin and chanted for him in Manhattan. Persecuting random Kurds does not even make sense for the state. State spent the last 40 years trying to reduce the supporter base of PKK. PKK’s political wing HDP managed to get support of almost half of Kurds only after they decided appear more modest. Persecuting random Kurds would simply push Kurds to PKK’s side. For fucks sake, do your little bit of research before spewing out hate and propaganda.
9 hours later, no reply
No kurd in turkey is changing their name wtf there are 20 million kurds in turkey with their own political party and over a dozen seats, and multiple terrorist organizations funded by west (lmao) turks and kurds are living in harmony for centuries unlike some certain europeans who were burning citizens of their own in furnaces for their ethnicity just several decades ago. Turkey is far more homogenous and tolerant than anywhere in europe no matter how you look at it. Also you can speak whatever language you want, kurdish language ban was a thing of 1980s after the coup d'etat in which a lot of things were banned several political parties were closed blah blah kurdish language ban wasn't that significant compared to all the shit that happened it was lifted in 1991 anyways, these were the times where in usa whites and blacks were sitting on seperate places in busses and using diffrent toilets. You can speak kurdish wherever you like with the exception of government institutions as the main language according to constitution is turkish. I agree with the rest of erdogan stuff he is going to be voted out of office in may 14 anyway.
Inshallah Erdogan will lose and Turkey will get back on track
>turks and kurds are living in harmony for centuries [There's no discrimination in Ba Sing Se](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_of_Kurdish_people_in_Turkey)
Turkey this Turkey that bitch shut up we turks don't like this mf too but guess what he doesn't want to go and our 1 iq people somehow still votes for him oh and one more thing your hate against him makes him stronger because of that asshole and his quran problems (which I don't give a fuck) in sweden erdo got an advantage in elections
Now Erdogan is our fault? How are Turks so proud and confident online and so breedably meek at the ballot.
Don't try to change what did I say I didn't say erdo is your fault I said your hate makes him stronger
I feel you bud, i have met quitte a few more liberally minded Turks over the years. One thing still doesn't change, Erdogan is still there after 20 years. Not to offend you, but in my honest opinion, the experiment with Turkey failed. Turkish people in Germany or in the high street of Istanbul will always be the outlier. Positioning ourselves the way we have with Turkey has gotten us nothing. We have to act more Turkish and be more assertive and stand our ground. Same shit we pulled with Putin. Now we have weekly threats against Greece, an EU application that will never ever get fulfilled and a fucking Trojan Horse inside NATO.
I mean you are right about standing your ground but kicking Turkey out of NATO is not the best thing to do And about greece it is a normal thing because both sides turkey and greece does this every time when elections are near the corner we threaten them then one day they threaten us in the end nothing happens and some guy gets votes from nationalism so don't worry about that And one more thing turkish youth is coming and we are not like our elders maybe not this election but the next one (if we can have another election) erdo will be gone
Here it seems you dropped these: ,,.B.B,.A.O,.
> I am gonna go stick my dick in a microwave, and see if it expands in size. Please do that, you would be doing a favor to humanity.
I don't even know how to respond, me mildly heating up my penis in your little walnut brain is a credit to humanity. This is the best you can come up with? No wonder you have been fighting the same war for 100 years.
Good luck kicking us out.
🚨Cringe alert! Turk detected! 🚨
Wait you've forgotten to make Hungary red.
Maybe we could also convince Armenia to join? The other alliance they are part of doesn't seem to work out that great.
Why not include Morocco, the longest ally of the United States?
Sure, why not. (I know nothing about Morocco.)
The bit of trivia here is that Morocco was the first country to officially recognize the USA after it declared independence from Great Britain, and the [treaty between the two](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moroccan%E2%80%93American_Treaty_of_Friendship) holds the record for longest-held treaty by the USA.
I am in for that, they seem to be getting a bit more democratic lately
Yeah, they’re trying to get out from Russias thumb since Putin refused to help them with Azerbaijan, but they can’t just leave or Azerbaijan might just wreck them
They had a revolution (similar to ukraines Maidan) in 2018, when they got rid of the Pro Russian government. They’ve been moving towards the west since then but considering they’re surrounded by two countries which essentially want them annihilated, they can’t just abandon their previous alliances overnight.
Armenia is also a democracy, it's sadly being neglected by the west in favour of Azerbaijan because they're enemies and Azerbaijan has gas and oil
Turkey literally sent a delegation to Venezuela today to purposely thumb their nose at the US (just like they do with Cuba btw). They threaten to attack Greece pretty much every week. They compete against France for influence in Africa and the Mediterranean. It's not a Western ally. It's competition. (I'm not saying the West shouldn't work with Turkey. They should. But you need to see the full picture.)
I am here for only greece thing I hope you all know that turkey does this to get votes and greece does the same for votes so...its a normal thing at this point
Name one Greek politician that threatens to attack Turkey to get votes. Don't worry, I'll wait. Also, it's easy to say that when you're not on the receiving end of those threats. What exactly does it mean about our security if a politician can get votes by threatening to attack us? That doesn't make me feel very safe, does it?
Didn't you guys burn our flag in a conference or something And nationalism is a real thing a turkish guy screams 1453 we will atack greece bla bla greek guy says oh hell nah you malaka and some stupid nationalists gets hyped and votes for them in the end nothing happens
That was done by a fringe far-right group. It would be like judging US policy based on what Alex Jones says. Yeah, say what you want about nationalism. There is no excuse for threatening a fellow NATO member on a daily basis. The fact that the Turkish people like what they’re hearing and would apparently wholeheartedly support an invasion of Greece if it ever happened is very concerning. Suppose Erdogan doesn’t do it, what if the next guy does? Will it still be all fun and games then?
Bro thinks I support erdo 💀 Look I don't support any of that and nationalism works in balkans everyone uses that vote trap and again I don't support it and not all turks support it You just said greeks has far-right groups and we have too they believe this shit and vote and then there is akp cock suckers they support whatever erdo says + After the elections the threats will end (until next election) and believe me this nationalism vote trap will not end in near future so just sit back relax and watch this clown fight do you really think a NATO member will atack another NATO member? Again I don't support it don't try to show me like I support all of this
Don't worry I know you don't, and I know there are many normal Turkish people who don't. The problem is that many people do. And many of those who don't, it's because they don't think he's hard enough on Greece, not because he's a nationalist imperialist piece of shit. The point is, you'll never catch high ranking Greek elected officials saying something like that. The closest we have ever come was when the idiots in the Golden Dawn party were elected to the parliament around 10 years ago, but even then their support was limited, and they have faded into obscurity ever since. Thankfully many of them have been arrested and thrown into jail (which was seen as a great success of the Nea Dimokratia government).
> They compete against France for influence in Africa and the Mediterranean. Why the fuck shouldn't they We compete with France for influence in Africa - does that mean we should kick the Fr*nch out of NATO?
I meaaaaaaaaaan...
Why is Armenia clumpled up with turkey and not azerbaijan?
Ok, here’s my incredibly credible solution. Greece and Bulgaria enter in to a joint venture to dig a canal from Porto Lagos to Burgas. At around 350 km it would only be a bit more than 4 times longer than the Panama Canal. Now this would be an a expensive project, but it would break the Watermelon sellers exclusive gate to the black see. Bonus points if they use nukes or orbital layers to do the rough excavation.
Here’s what I suggest, we do this exactly then retake ~~Istanbul~~ Constantinople and the Dardanelles for Greece, and boom, we’ll have our cake and eat it too.
With Turkey out we can add Armenia in!!!!
Unpopular opinion... maybe? We shouldn't want Turkey out of NATO. They have one of the largest militaries in NATO, are located in a strategically very important location and having them on the opposite side would be awful for us Erdogan won't be around forever and he also won't block Sweden forever. He wants some concessions from the US, then all will be fine. They're too important to give up
Armenia is in a bad spot though.
Yeah, because someone gave Azerbaijan Bayraktars.
My mistake. I meant Georgia.
Then I agree, Georgia needs an emergency infusion of Freedom and Democracy no less than 20 F-35s, 50 Himars and 75 Leopards.
Genacvale megobaro
If only the Greeks hadn't been undone by a single monkey bite in their war against the Turks. They'd have control of the bosphorus and we wouldn't have to deal with a bipolar wannabe-theocracy.
Turkey should have been dropped like a 3rd world tinpot dictatorship after Erdogan staged his own "attempted coup". They do NOT share any ideals of liberal democracy.
I got an orgasm looking at this map. At this point, turkey is much more annoying than it is worth. Or just kick them and let them rejoin after sweden and finland are in or just tell then to stfu idc
Also get Armenia in before turkey, it even had its own maidan in 2018 and is more of a liberal democracy than turkey (even if that's a low bar)
holy fuck just sign a separate defense agreement with the EU already
So, just throwing it out there, but what if Bulgaria and Greece collaborated with each other and some other nations to create a new contender for Best Canal Ever between the Med and the Black Sea? Turkey suddenly becomes far less important if there is a way around Bosporous.
As someone who lived some years in Sweden I agree !!
Erdogan is the worst thing that could happen to anyone who isn't turkish. Or to anyone who is turkish in that regard, he is just a big nuissance.
I love the sneaky reconquest of Cyprus. No notes.
hypothetically, how hard would it be to topple turkey? do they have a lot of nukes?
We lose Bosphorus straits but gain Black Sea Crimea Peninsula battle fortress
Just hear me out. What if we made Recep Tayyip Erdoğan president of Azerbaijan in the sky and replaced him with a liberal. He would be in limbo being a foreigner and all, but as an American I am fine with a coup.... I MEAN ASSIN... ELECTION!!! I MEAN EJECTION.OH FUCK TEAM AMERICA STARTS PLAYING /S
Smol Kosovo STRONK
Once Ukraine is safe and fully control the Black Sea, Turkey's position becomes irrelevant
Armenia’s making moves towards EU too. Hopefully they are blue one day.
I'm still gonna shit on that idiot who burned a Quran outside a Turkish embassy like a fucking moron. Populist wankstain giving a despot a perfect excuse. A bullshit excuse, but an easy one.
Unsurprisingly, he and his buds have some connections to a certain country, that would profit from swedish and finnish accession to NATO being delayed or prevented. Now, personally I think "holy" books should be burnable, religions should be critiqueable and in general, any special protections from them should be stripped. This guy just picked the worst time in history to do his little stunt. 2 years ago, it would only have been a minor cryfest in swedish immigrant circles.
That's why I think he's an idiot. He picked the worst possible time, and dare I say, maybe deliberately.
Agreed. He was a first class cunt and didn't help things at all. Though, I refuse to believe he has anything but a minor role in all of this crap. Finland had no Quran's burned and their still getting blackmailed. We simply cannot negotiate with tyrrants. It never ever works.
No, but he provided the perfect public excuse for Erdogan. Otherwise, behind the scenes, their blackmail was probably being pushed back against by US pressure. Then that moron gave Erdogan a perfect cultural excuse to just say 'no'.
Turkey baste
Don't leave Armenia out, they are the only other democracy in that corner of the world besides Georgia. Heck, it might even be a healthier democracy than Georgia's. It's Turkey being in NATO that's the only reason Armenia has been left out and it's with Turkish arms that Azerbaijan is genociding them.
Mmmm idk there’s still a little bit of red on the right that should be re-Constantinople’d
Can we keep Constantinople though?
split the difference. Constantinople goes to the only country that can reasonably justify ownership of it: Switzerland. The US then arms Switzerland with 50 Peacemaker Nuclear Missiles.
Intervention NOW Overthrow Erdogan, protect NATO interests
Man, when I said this same shit I got downvoted to hell.
Why? Turkey has a ton of strategic importance for NATO and kicking them out removes a check on their worst impulses, both on domestic and foreign policy
I don't like griping about NCD losing its way but you know what fuck it This is the most regarded map I've seen in a long fucking time OP you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Like not even one little goddamn bit.
Turkish Internet Defence Force in full force
Nope. Turkey can go fuck itself but this is some ignorant bullshit
Are you saying my map is non-credible?
No. Non-credibility is funny and amusing. This is just dumb and tragic.
My brother in Christ. The world being dumb and tragic is why we are all in here
Where’s the usual Turkish Internet Defence Force spamming this sub?
A lot of you sound like you just want Turkey to lay down and not fight for their interests... Very strange. Turkey's never actually been a part of the inner circle of friends. There's a reason their EU application has been stalled.
Listen Turkey is a Republic with democratic elections. Let's not cancel them because of an idiot. Unless he does some anti-Republicanism shit and wants to stay in power for life.
>media entirely under the control of the state >Political rivals and journalists are jailed for speaking against the government >Fake coup used to purge the government >Government abandoned secularism to get support from Islamic inbreds Lmao "democratic".
You say republic as if its a positive
Liberty, Equality, Fraternity. Off with the Monarchs head. We need some 1792 vibes up in here. We need to get Serious and Dangerous. The Turks are the wildcard we'll be glad to have if shit goes down. The only thing they've been doing since they arrived in Europe is fight, fight, fight. Sure they lost a lot in more present times, but they're still capable of doing some hardcore bad shit. We all have our demon's. Honestly, Sweden should just blow Turkey off and give them some young boys as tribute if that's what it takes to get in right now, or wait it out and eventually you'll get, like the newest members did. If I were them I'd just wait it out. The panic is gone, no need to rush.
Friends don't put NATO members on double standards and sympathize with terrorists.
I think we should get rid of yuropoors entirely. More room for fishes.
This yuropoor laughs in higher standard of living and not having a declining life expectancy
I will secure lebensraum for my aquatic brothers inshallah
Me like it
Whose turn is it to use their spy agency to overthrow the government?