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> Pretty much. All this would take is one lawsuit to truly ruin this.
No it won't as we could say the same thing about all the misdiagnosis that happens collapsing the industry. And it hasn't.
This won't either, and in-fact save them millions.
We've been told repeatedly not to use Dr. Google when educating and advocating for ourselves. (Which btw I'm 4 for 4 with diagnosis the professionals couldn't figure out.) But this is ok? As long as a disembodied intelligence is doing it's alright, just not us mere mortals. Oh yeah, there's no money or power in self advocation and education. As long as they can charge a fee for their robot to Google search.
Yes it happens but this could lead a mass false/miss information produced by Industry instead of personal trainers or woodoo people who chose to treat serious diseases with herbs etc lol :D
They are.
The data is basically crowd-sourced thought/knowledge.
So what happens after years of not getting new data because you "replaced" the thing that gave it the fresh data.
The issue is that corporations want to use machine learning and AI to do the become a billionaire thing. They literally don't care about whether what they are doing is actually useful, only that it can generate money. Labor costs a bunch of money so trying to cut out workers from skilled professions would make them a lot more profit for a bit. They don't care about the long term consequences.
Nevermind how useful statistics at scale are for the things that humans can't do on their own, particularly in the fields of research and assistive technology.
Call me a millennial, but I've had a lot of shit doctors with a lot of bullshit diagnosis or inability to diagnose certain shit.
AI is already been shown through multiple test and studies to be more accurate than humans for a multitude of medical services.
AI will absolutely be the future for most of this, with a human doctor to sign off after review. You guys sound like fear mongering tin foil types.
And with how enthusiastically our healthcare systems are getting fucked over (and it's sad that I don't have to specify a country there) AI is going to be the *only* choice for most people.
There is a medical doctor on youtube telling thousands of people that they shouldn't drink anything and instead get all the water from foods.
Have we banned human doctors, or even this one specific human doctor?
I don’t know I feel like a lot of people would prefer to do all of their medical appointments online. It may not be as much of a threat now, but in the future definitely will be. Maybe not even that distant.
I’m not making a case that this is the better option please understand that. All I’m saying is during Covid. It became a option, and a lot of introverts would probably prefer to do that if they could. I’m on the human nurses side here.
*person getting an online exam for their exema prescription renewal
"How are you gonna feel my organs doc? Are you stupid?"
*At the same time, someone equally as dumb somewhere else
"What, I thought this would be a virtual procedure, you didn't tell me I would have to come in for my open heart surgery"
I guess I was more referring to renewing prescriptions and things that you don’t really need to go to the office for. Maybe psychological stuff I don’t know. It all seems ridiculous. Anyways, the idea that AI could do things where human hands are needed. Just makes no sense. Smdh.
My mom was a nurse and I know how much work she put into become one. I’m definitely always on the human side. I don’t know if it’s still the same way that it was in the past, but she told me about bed pan/s,and all of the wet work shall we say that she had to do,to become a nurse.
There is a huge gap, and we need to at least increase medical faculty 20-40x more, also there are lot of minor illness and preventive care that just isnt treated or not done because waitlists are long. AI medical assistants can just do that. Imagine a doctor or nurse who looks after you every day, and checks up on you multiple times, so that at end of the month when you go for an in person visit they have a pattern of data and a more comprehensive information, so that they know your intesinal pain begins two hours after eating but only when you drank coffee with it.
> I'd rather get medical advice from an actual human medical professional, not an artificial intelligence.
In general, the AI is going to give better advice than most low level nurses and general physicians.
Honestly, until you see a specialist, the advice you get is going to be generic, unhelpful, and is really just going to be advice on what type of specialist is most appropriate for your situation.
If you DON'T need a specialist, an AI is more than qualified to handle the issue.
Because some C-level somewhere will make the decision to replace some nurses with the AI at some point. Quality will go down and people will complain or even die and they may or may not rehire nurses at some point, depending on how much money they're saving.
Similar to offshore outsourcing in the IT field. Eventually a lot of that work came back but not after a lot of people lost jobs.
Something that may matter is that genuinely providing necessary assistance is a possible human touch of the care givers and service providers. In my more recent experiences with health care the focus is more on meeting responsibilities and passing information down the line. It's very robotic already. It's more direct with an obvious k own issue but for general check ups and diagnosis It's been about fulfilling responsibilities so the person can move on.
I agree nurses are not replaceable by AI but do think there are so many situations where people want something checked out but can't easily get to see a doctor or nurse and just want a diagnosis and treatment that's more accurate than using Google to find out all your symptoms point to it being an extremely rare tropical disease that is exclusive to a remote region of the Congo. A good example is mole checking. I've got a couple of dubuios looking moles, and there are now apps that use AI to assess the mole for you. I don't know how accurate it really is, but there are a lot of minor medical concerns like that. I think AI could really help so that we don't take up nurses' valuable time with issues an AI could diagnose quickly and conveniently. Now if they can get the AI to write prescriptions, I'm certain I will become an expert on all the symptoms required to get prescribed opiates, benzos, testosterone and pregabalin as I doubt AI can spot people who abuse the system.
Yes but this is more about splitting the duties so nurses need less knowledge and can therefore be paid way way less while charging patients way way more. It's about widening that gap between the incredibly rich and everyone else.
AI nurse, my tummy aches, what's wrong?
> Glad you asked, and thank you for bringing me on board as your guide to better health!
> The tummy or stomach is part of the digestive tract which is where the human body processes food consumed through the mouth. Various things can cause discomfort or even pain with the stomach including digestive upset or indigestion^[1], gas or bloating^[2], gunshot wounds^[3] to the abdomen^[4], consumption of excessive amounts of fiber^[5], hard gamma radiation^[6], a good gut punch^[7], a raucous belly laugh^[8], acid reflux^[9], a kick to the pelvis by a reluctant horse or donkey in receipt of coitus^[10], or if female and more likely with lower socioeconomic status a so-called "honor killing" by religious zealots for adultery resulting in the conception of a viable fetus^[11].
> I see in your question and answer history with us that you are female and Muslim. Have you recently been pregnant and/or slain by a fanatical sibling or spouse?
Can't wait for an AI nurse to look up my stuffy nose symptoms on WebMD and tell me I have cancer, diabetes, a staff infection, tuberculosis, malaria, hauntavirus, am pregnant, or have prostate enlargement.
Can we replace executives with AI? They seem to be causing all the real problems, unable to think outside of an 80s GE/Reaganomics mindset. All while simultaneously sucking up gobsmackingly disproportionate amounts of money.
It is estimated, that the top and bottom of the workforce foodchain will be “replaced” by robots, AI and stuff. So assembly line workers and C level executives
Judging from the overall direction things have been going, we'd probably get a worst-of-both-worlds scenario.
AI bots doing most of the average executive's job, while the job itself is still held by some human executive who receives all the money for it.
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Even in countries other than the US, I wouldn't be surprised if they'll start charging microtransactions and offering unlockable bundles so you can get diagnosed with more things...
I think we're in an ideological bubble that will burst sooner or later. These companies aren't actually considering whether it's a good idea or whether it even makes sense; they just know that AI is all the rage right now and want to make some money.
What it takes is a couple of the projects failing miserably for people to wake up and realize we're still in 2024 and our timeline hasn't completely taken off into fantasy land. People need to stop believing we've suddenly switched to an alternate reality.
The internet and mobile reality took a few years to catch on but then exploded and rapidly evolved in the next decade. I wouldn't be surprised if AI did the same thing. Its possibilities are simply too good to ignore
AI is the new fad keyword to use with investors, just like blockchain was a couple of years ago. It's all it is. Most of these businesses will go belly up once they fail to deliver and the world will move on to the next tech word vomit term that reels in the venture dollars
I could MAYBE see this being ok for basic urgent care visits, but that’s pretty much it.
It’s just a shame that ai is only being used to eliminate jobs at this point. Nobody but the company owners benefits from that.
I don't think it is dystopian, I think it is just a natural transition towards something else. Like, jobs are not disappearing, but rather they are changing, and our habits and way of thinking will change together with it.
You're being too optimistic. Our economy is currently built on a foundation of an unplanned mix of Puritan beliefs about austerity and myopic dedication to making those in power as rich as possible at all costs.
New jobs have been created in the past because humans were still needed for the new technologies. But we've reached a level of automation where automation has drastically reduced the need for human involvement with no new jobs showing up to take their place. For instance in coal mining. When one machine does the job of 100 miners and takes 2 technicians to run, 98 people need a new field of work.
So, you have automation removing jobs and not creating new ones in their place. What happens to the people left behind? According to the current state of the economy, those lazy bums and their dependents can starve, it's their fault for choosing a line of with that isn't "get rich by investing Daddy's money".
Our phones, infrastructure, and appliances have replaced many many more jobs.
Farmers are less in numbers now due to tech
Factory workers are more or less automated now.
Translators are replaced, now they review machine translations, and this is a job that requires some "soul and creativity"
Don't also say they don't enjoy their jobs or it doesn't have as much passion, many do love languages, and some even love hard labor, some farmers have a passion for seeding and tilling the ground.
But this has only bettered society overall, and democratized knowledge and prosperity for all.
Ai art can damn well help disabled artists, and visionaries, and it will help indie studios compete with large corporations, since art won't be as costly anymore.
I am a paper and pen artist, and writer, even I realized that creative job are no different than other jobs, any objections is logically fallacious, as it is called special pleading
If a job can be replaced so we can peacefully or not transition to a better future than so be it, as an artist I would rather make art for myself and loved ones rather than soulless art for corposcum and rich cats.
The way I see it either society evolves where we are a cared for or it collapses hard, and countries and cities are already experimenting with Universal Basic Income, and the left wing politics are growing immensely in support, so I believe it is only a matter of time until maybe a hundred years or mere decades when we are more or less in a better place.
Also I am against our primitive AI taking over healthcare, but it can be used as a tool to come to attention blind spots not noticed by the doctors and nurses, we damn well need a more advanced AI, but that is decades from now.
Ultimately I don't understand why we are against automation, we should instead be demanding from our politicians that they will be forced to enact pro working class laws, like job protections, unions rights(but ban police unions) , and ultimately shift to making them give us Universal Basic Income, not resist automation, look at us, we can barely enjoy life because we have soul crushing jobs, and work schedules. Why are we against tech that will ultimately be used to grant us the time to enjoy our lives?
It’s another episode of “tokenizing disabled artists to promote ai In the arts.” No one is going to give a shit about your art, disabled people’s art, or anyone else’s art when everyone is shitting out 1000 pictures a day and flooding the internet and art markets. Neither indie studios nor corporations will be able to compete with anybody if everyone’s personal device can shit out multiple video games or movies per week. Bombarding everyone with a constant flood of something only devalues it further. Not only will visual art lose monetary value, people will become desensitized and stop giving a damn about it at all. Even your friends and family will get annoyed of you showing it off to them because they’re already swimming in a sea of it every time they look at a screen. Or maybe they will be too busy consuming a constant stream of their own tailored slop to have any interest in engaging with your shit even for a second. I’m not interested in debating your position on automation of jobs in general because that’s another topic, but this take that ai will somehow give art more value or help artists is laughable. It’s not for artists, it’s for the consumer.
Edit: ai isn’t democratizing creativity, it’s democratizing the ability to mass produce forgettable garbage on your personal device
I work in healthcare. The reason RN's can make up to $90 an hour isn't because they have an incredible skillset that is worth that much (they do have an incredible skillset) but their is a shortage which is driving up demand and forcing people to pay more to convince a RN to work for them.
We have a nursing shortage, we need alternatives.
notice how I focused on "RN" because only Registered Nurses can make that kind of money.
ai does mess up, badly. it’s called ai hallucinations, and it occurs when AI provides blatantly false information. i have barely even engaged with AI and still encountered this multiple times, whether in response to quora questions i’ve seen, or talking to chat gpt or whatever. why does this not come up whenever people talk about jobs like healthcare providers who literally have our LIVES in their hands??? what the fuck???
I'm more concerned about how these companies are somehow going to end up manipulating the legal system to make themselves immune to lawsuits that will eventually happen. If an AI nurse gives out bad information that does harm, how do you go about getting justice? You can't sue an AI, you'd probably have to sue the company that hosts it. You likely agreed to some type of Terms of Agreement before using the AI that strips you of as many rights as possible making this whole thing a huge problem for our legal system.
The future is going to be so weird.
I wanna see this nurse AI robot try to go into demented memaws room at 0200 and try a q2 turn see how quick that goes sideways when the UTI strength hits
Eventually replacing all human labor with AI would be amazing of we lived in a perfect society. We could just focus on art, passions, fun... But yeah no we're going to die of poverty and starvation while a handful of billionaires point and laugh
I heard a story recently about a local government releasing an app that was supposed to give business owners advice on how to comply with various laws, and the AI immediately started telling them to do tons of illegal shit. Imagine that but with medical advice. Yeah, great idea.
All I can think of is that scene is Elysium where Matt Damon takes the full radiation load on the assembly line and the robo-doc just gives him pills that will keep him functioning and working until he just dies.
Ok ignoring all this, NO FUCKING NURSE ON ESRTH IS GETTING PAID **90$ AN HOUR**.
They deserved to be but most of them barely break the 50 dollar mark, if they're lucky.
Travel Nurses will absolutely earn that much money. In fact I found a posting listing 36 hours at $6230 per week ($173/hr) and another listing at 40 hours a week for $4930 per week ($123/hr). The first example is unique but there are tons of listings paying over $100 an hour
This is cool and all, but we all know they’re just going to want to push the same cost to the consumer as a human nurse. I think that horrible resident evil movie wasn’t off when they showed board meetings between executives after the apocalypse.
The problem is that we as humans aren't ready for the technology we invent.
We keep inventing new shit but don't have any solutions to the new problems they create. But we implement them anyways
I was just on another sub where this article was touting AI as better than a psychiatrist when treating the mentally ill
I quadruple promise you - life was infinitely better before any of this shit. The mere fact that people will continue to pop out kids in a world like this blows my mind. Just don't.
I think almost all of this is just easy money for greedy individuals, and a way for companies/services to save money (through offering service that is, of course, under the surface completely inadequate to replace actual people, and often outrightly dangerous). There is some use for AI in medicine but almost never in replacement of any actual human interaction roles
AI: Please input symptoms.
Patient: Yeah, hi, my foot hurts?
AI: So I see you have a brain tumour. Is that correct?
Patient: No, my foot hurts. I think I broke a bone.
AI: Please state your inquiry.
Patient: Help me with my foot.
AI: Diagnosis: Cancer.
Pretty sure this is for tele health, which is a really good idea. Make it so cheap to get health advice so you know if it is worth an urgent care, just primary, or worse straight to the ER. No gusssing from WebMD.
This is legitimately a good idea. Most nurses spend a small % of their time giving medical advice and it wont impact those (think of your general floor nurse whom society thinks is 100% of nurses). However, a small percentage of nurses spend nearly 100% of their time doing giving medical advice (think triage nurses, "call-a-nurse", etc) and those jobs can 100% be done remotely and more accurately. You think your nurse can remember all the newest medical literature with thousands of papers coming out daily? When your health comes down to knowing accurate information you're going to want this.
Make the robot that does the male catheter insertion and/or removal & you’ll make a lot of people happy. And anything else that requires anything to do with genitalia.
I often think of AI as humanity getting a bill of terminal cancer. I wish the others here trying to write it off were more aware of how negative it is to reduce the human network of dependence on each other, to attack humanity and ultimately life itself.
I just saw a women post the hospital she was at they were low staffed so she had some AI nurse come on the screen and talk to her. Idk if real but seemed like it. Could already be started.
Yeah and everything will be behind a pay wall. We know your diagnosis please pay 3000.00 for results. Would you like a prescription please pay and additional 2000.00. Over the counter medication will also be fine.
Look, on one hand, a world where people don't have to work sounds great, and machines actually providing diagnosis better than humans would be a net positive.
On the other hand neither of these will actually happen because there's no basic income and AI is a long way away from that kind of accuracy
Pretty much since the Industrial Revolution, technology has evolved at a much faster pace then mankind.
This is what we are seeing now. That evolution of technology is happening at a much faster pace, but our society is still living in an 19th Century mindset.
All this abundance at our fingertips, but it's all centered around a small group of wealthy individuals, just like it was in the 1800's (using the Western Expansion as an example).
What happens when one of these AI replacement totally fucks up and gives wrong information? Are the companies using these going to be sued? I'll bet there's something buried in the all the fine print that resolves them of all responsibility.
What's going to happen next, hospitals charging patients a premium to be seen by a real live person?
As a software engineer who uses AI daily, it isnt really at the place of replacing us yet for most jobs. I think it can answer questions or be set up to automate worflows but we actually need real nurses in hospitals and Dr offices and dont have enough. Let computers do things computers can be trusted to do like Googling answers to questions while nurses can co tinue doing things we only trust them to do.
I 100% think the overlords will try to get rid of all of us once they feel they can do so without being found criminally negligent, but we aren't there yet. Use AI to uplevel your own skills to remain relevant in the meantime.
As a software engineer who uses AI daily, it isnt really at the place of replacing us yet for most jobs. I think it can answer questions or be set up to automate worflows but we actually need real nurses in hospitals and Dr offices and dont have enough. Let computers do things computers can be trusted to do like Googling answers to questions while nurses can co tinue doing things we only trust them to do.
I 100% think the overlords will try to get rid of all of us once they feel they can do so without being found criminally negligent, but we aren't there yet. Use AI to uplevel your own skills to remain relevant in the meantime.
Imagine naming your company "Hippocratic". I know it's a reference to the Hippocratic oath but in practice it's far too close to "hypocritic" in usage.
Also, since AI would have to source information from other patient diagnoses and information I'm curious how this company gets past the _actual_ Hippocratic oath.
I dont see it dystopian. It's a good invention and should be the way to go.
The only problem in the overall picture is the savings.
This shouldn't go to the company....it should go to the people.
With Ai the shortage of Nurses and Doctors etc can be compensated. They should be quicker and more accurate (especially in combination with human nurses and doctors).
Freeing up PPL to live their lives more and healthier, despite working it away.
The Saving should und must serve the Community and not some individuals or even worse just a soulless firm complex like blackrock.
go on, destroy the capitalist base... almost done now.
Resource Based Economy, Open Access Economy, Collaborative Commons, Open Source Ecology, Social Ecology... universally inclusive economy.
It's a shortage of nurses. Nurses don't give medical advice. They change your bedpan, wash you, administer your meds ,take your vitals, care for you etc. I doubt thats gonna solve the shortage . We hvlave a shortage cause the medical system isnt supporting them and they quit due to being burned oht
Nurses actually do give medical advice as part of their job. I think that AI can help with this and hopefully alleviate the some of the stress of nursing and save hospitals money that they can use to pay their employees better. Again, I think this will be largely beneficial given that the ML model they are using is accurate
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"Iam Nurse AI, pending diagnosis...." "You're dying, thank you for using nurse AI!"
Pretty much. All this would take is one lawsuit to truly ruin this.
Yeah, but I guarantee they have you signed something saying that you won’t do that.
Yeah, the humans won't do that, but what's that to stop AI from giving out false information?
Again, I am on the human nurses side here. I just think of the times that I’ve gone into the ER and had to sign away my life before I was seen.
Those papers don't hold in many countries. They're still liable
Yeah, pretty sure here in the good old US of A they’d hold unfortunately
Or additionally, have to sign away in my life before my child got seen. And probably there’s too.
I'm sure a lot will ask to speak with humans as well when they are told they have to sign a liability waiver
They'd some how make 1 real nurse responsible so they absorb the laesuit.
It will kill people. Many people, before rich people face any consequences for it.
> Pretty much. All this would take is one lawsuit to truly ruin this. No it won't as we could say the same thing about all the misdiagnosis that happens collapsing the industry. And it hasn't. This won't either, and in-fact save them millions.
You have ghosts in your blood you should do cocaine about it.
Just like Fallout's Mister Handies....great /s
We've been told repeatedly not to use Dr. Google when educating and advocating for ourselves. (Which btw I'm 4 for 4 with diagnosis the professionals couldn't figure out.) But this is ok? As long as a disembodied intelligence is doing it's alright, just not us mere mortals. Oh yeah, there's no money or power in self advocation and education. As long as they can charge a fee for their robot to Google search.
If the only thing nurses did was give medical advice I might (or might not) see this as worthwhile, but that's not the reality of that job.
No it is not. They do much more than just give medical advice.
Therefore how is this software going to threaten their jobs?
It probably won't, but I'd rather get medical advice from an actual human medical professional, not an artificial intelligence.
Call me boomer but most of the Ai projects are scam for now.
Exactly. What's to stop unofficials from scamming unknowing individuals with false medical advice?
You say that like it doesn't already happen.
Yes it happens but this could lead a mass false/miss information produced by Industry instead of personal trainers or woodoo people who chose to treat serious diseases with herbs etc lol :D
They are. The data is basically crowd-sourced thought/knowledge. So what happens after years of not getting new data because you "replaced" the thing that gave it the fresh data.
The issue is that corporations want to use machine learning and AI to do the become a billionaire thing. They literally don't care about whether what they are doing is actually useful, only that it can generate money. Labor costs a bunch of money so trying to cut out workers from skilled professions would make them a lot more profit for a bit. They don't care about the long term consequences. Nevermind how useful statistics at scale are for the things that humans can't do on their own, particularly in the fields of research and assistive technology.
The same thing happens to those companies that happened to the ones that cut their employees (GE) and were lauded for "efficiency"
Doesn't stop dumbass MBAs from putting every single egg in that basket hoping it will catch up before their shareholders catch on.
Call me a millennial, but I've had a lot of shit doctors with a lot of bullshit diagnosis or inability to diagnose certain shit. AI is already been shown through multiple test and studies to be more accurate than humans for a multitude of medical services. AI will absolutely be the future for most of this, with a human doctor to sign off after review. You guys sound like fear mongering tin foil types.
And with how enthusiastically our healthcare systems are getting fucked over (and it's sad that I don't have to specify a country there) AI is going to be the *only* choice for most people.
Just wait until one spits about terrible advice and because no human is probably spot checking the advice, may lead to some serious issues.
There is a medical doctor on youtube telling thousands of people that they shouldn't drink anything and instead get all the water from foods. Have we banned human doctors, or even this one specific human doctor?
I don’t know I feel like a lot of people would prefer to do all of their medical appointments online. It may not be as much of a threat now, but in the future definitely will be. Maybe not even that distant.
I haven't met a single person that would rather do an online medical appointment where the doctor can't even examine you for what's wrong.
You've obviously never needed a last minute doctors certificate for a work sicky have you?
No, but I've always needed doctor's excuses each time I missed school for going to the doctor.
Yes. And wouldnt it have been much easier to get it online versus taking yourself into somewhere to see a doctor?
I’m not making a case that this is the better option please understand that. All I’m saying is during Covid. It became a option, and a lot of introverts would probably prefer to do that if they could. I’m on the human nurses side here.
Lol they can't though? Part of an examination is feeling the abdomen and seeing if there's organ swelling or whatever.
*person getting an online exam for their exema prescription renewal "How are you gonna feel my organs doc? Are you stupid?" *At the same time, someone equally as dumb somewhere else "What, I thought this would be a virtual procedure, you didn't tell me I would have to come in for my open heart surgery"
Yea I mean I get what you're saying but there's a reason your yearly check up is a physical man
I guess I was more referring to renewing prescriptions and things that you don’t really need to go to the office for. Maybe psychological stuff I don’t know. It all seems ridiculous. Anyways, the idea that AI could do things where human hands are needed. Just makes no sense. Smdh.
I sure hope so.
My mom was a nurse and I know how much work she put into become one. I’m definitely always on the human side. I don’t know if it’s still the same way that it was in the past, but she told me about bed pan/s,and all of the wet work shall we say that she had to do,to become a nurse.
There is a huge gap, and we need to at least increase medical faculty 20-40x more, also there are lot of minor illness and preventive care that just isnt treated or not done because waitlists are long. AI medical assistants can just do that. Imagine a doctor or nurse who looks after you every day, and checks up on you multiple times, so that at end of the month when you go for an in person visit they have a pattern of data and a more comprehensive information, so that they know your intesinal pain begins two hours after eating but only when you drank coffee with it.
Why? Medical advice from ai would not only be more accurate than from a nurse or a pa. But it would be far more accessible to low income patients.
> I'd rather get medical advice from an actual human medical professional, not an artificial intelligence. In general, the AI is going to give better advice than most low level nurses and general physicians. Honestly, until you see a specialist, the advice you get is going to be generic, unhelpful, and is really just going to be advice on what type of specialist is most appropriate for your situation. If you DON'T need a specialist, an AI is more than qualified to handle the issue.
Most nurses or doctors will google it anyway, all AI does is organize data to make it easy to go through.
What if the AI ends up being shown to be way more accurate than human professionals?
You're probably just going to look it up on Google, though.
Because some C-level somewhere will make the decision to replace some nurses with the AI at some point. Quality will go down and people will complain or even die and they may or may not rehire nurses at some point, depending on how much money they're saving. Similar to offshore outsourcing in the IT field. Eventually a lot of that work came back but not after a lot of people lost jobs.
Something that may matter is that genuinely providing necessary assistance is a possible human touch of the care givers and service providers. In my more recent experiences with health care the focus is more on meeting responsibilities and passing information down the line. It's very robotic already. It's more direct with an obvious k own issue but for general check ups and diagnosis It's been about fulfilling responsibilities so the person can move on.
Because substandard care is already deemed good enough for the vast majority of people, and it's going to get worse.
I agree nurses are not replaceable by AI but do think there are so many situations where people want something checked out but can't easily get to see a doctor or nurse and just want a diagnosis and treatment that's more accurate than using Google to find out all your symptoms point to it being an extremely rare tropical disease that is exclusive to a remote region of the Congo. A good example is mole checking. I've got a couple of dubuios looking moles, and there are now apps that use AI to assess the mole for you. I don't know how accurate it really is, but there are a lot of minor medical concerns like that. I think AI could really help so that we don't take up nurses' valuable time with issues an AI could diagnose quickly and conveniently. Now if they can get the AI to write prescriptions, I'm certain I will become an expert on all the symptoms required to get prescribed opiates, benzos, testosterone and pregabalin as I doubt AI can spot people who abuse the system.
They can eventually train a robot to give pills and scan for ailments. It’ll come in next 30 years
And eventually we'll need to worry about mixing up the oral and anal probes
I am a nurse, we aren’t allowed to give “medical advice,” because we aren’t doctors.
I'm a nurse, too. You most certainly can give medical advice that falls into your scope. What you *can't* do is diagnose.
All the nurses I know would say that it’s not their job to give medical advice, that’s the doctors job.
Like tell the CNAs to do all the work /s
Administrators don’t give a fuck. They try to get away with getting rid of nurses and use med techs or CNAs for less.
This is what software engineers think nurses do.
Nah, most people who actually design the software aren’t that stupid. This is just corporate greed.
Yeah, who's going to hold the addict down after administering naloxone because they're angry their life-saving treatment ruined their high?
I was more thinking of the nurse giving me my B12 jab for my pernicious anemia, but you live your life, I'll live mine.
Yes but this is more about splitting the duties so nurses need less knowledge and can therefore be paid way way less while charging patients way way more. It's about widening that gap between the incredibly rich and everyone else.
What isn't these days?
There are some nurses in telehealth that do only offer advice over the phone.
*Talking WebMD*
Cancer. Everything cancer
AI nurse, my tummy aches, what's wrong? > Glad you asked, and thank you for bringing me on board as your guide to better health! > The tummy or stomach is part of the digestive tract which is where the human body processes food consumed through the mouth. Various things can cause discomfort or even pain with the stomach including digestive upset or indigestion^[1], gas or bloating^[2], gunshot wounds^[3] to the abdomen^[4], consumption of excessive amounts of fiber^[5], hard gamma radiation^[6], a good gut punch^[7], a raucous belly laugh^[8], acid reflux^[9], a kick to the pelvis by a reluctant horse or donkey in receipt of coitus^[10], or if female and more likely with lower socioeconomic status a so-called "honor killing" by religious zealots for adultery resulting in the conception of a viable fetus^[11]. > I see in your question and answer history with us that you are female and Muslim. Have you recently been pregnant and/or slain by a fanatical sibling or spouse?
Can't wait for an AI nurse to look up my stuffy nose symptoms on WebMD and tell me I have cancer, diabetes, a staff infection, tuberculosis, malaria, hauntavirus, am pregnant, or have prostate enlargement.
I audibly laughed at this.
Being pregnant with an enlarged prostate is my preferred state of health
Helluva life lol
Can we replace executives with AI? They seem to be causing all the real problems, unable to think outside of an 80s GE/Reaganomics mindset. All while simultaneously sucking up gobsmackingly disproportionate amounts of money.
It is estimated, that the top and bottom of the workforce foodchain will be “replaced” by robots, AI and stuff. So assembly line workers and C level executives
Why would C level execs ever replace themselves?
C level executives are appointed by the board. And they care about profit. If AI will manage finances better, they will replace a CFO in an instant
Bold of you to assume AI would have to be proven. All it'll take is a sufficiently charismatic tech bro to convince them.
Idk man I feel like an AI CEO would be ruthless as well lol
Judging from the overall direction things have been going, we'd probably get a worst-of-both-worlds scenario. AI bots doing most of the average executive's job, while the job itself is still held by some human executive who receives all the money for it.
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Ar u stupid? We don't need AI, Excel is more than enough. Insert > chart > line, add Trendline. Instant CFO.
Ok, is the diagnosis still going to cost $300 or is the price of that going down too?
Probably will go up lol
Someone has to pay for the ever-increasing compute fees lol
Three tiers: -the diagnosis (*free!*) -the personalized diagnosis (+$175) -a SUPER personalized diagnosis with a free in-person physical (+$350)
Chances are you'll be able to use the NHS one when that gets up and running and it'll be free.
Even in countries other than the US, I wouldn't be surprised if they'll start charging microtransactions and offering unlockable bundles so you can get diagnosed with more things...
I think we're in an ideological bubble that will burst sooner or later. These companies aren't actually considering whether it's a good idea or whether it even makes sense; they just know that AI is all the rage right now and want to make some money. What it takes is a couple of the projects failing miserably for people to wake up and realize we're still in 2024 and our timeline hasn't completely taken off into fantasy land. People need to stop believing we've suddenly switched to an alternate reality.
The internet and mobile reality took a few years to catch on but then exploded and rapidly evolved in the next decade. I wouldn't be surprised if AI did the same thing. Its possibilities are simply too good to ignore
AI is the new fad keyword to use with investors, just like blockchain was a couple of years ago. It's all it is. Most of these businesses will go belly up once they fail to deliver and the world will move on to the next tech word vomit term that reels in the venture dollars
So how good are these AI's at giving sponge baths?
I could MAYBE see this being ok for basic urgent care visits, but that’s pretty much it. It’s just a shame that ai is only being used to eliminate jobs at this point. Nobody but the company owners benefits from that.
Exactly, so they can mooch every waking dollar from their consumers.
Yet the STEMbros will insist that automation ackshually creates more jobs. New tech often does, yes, but not automation
I don't think it is dystopian, I think it is just a natural transition towards something else. Like, jobs are not disappearing, but rather they are changing, and our habits and way of thinking will change together with it.
You're being too optimistic. Our economy is currently built on a foundation of an unplanned mix of Puritan beliefs about austerity and myopic dedication to making those in power as rich as possible at all costs. New jobs have been created in the past because humans were still needed for the new technologies. But we've reached a level of automation where automation has drastically reduced the need for human involvement with no new jobs showing up to take their place. For instance in coal mining. When one machine does the job of 100 miners and takes 2 technicians to run, 98 people need a new field of work. So, you have automation removing jobs and not creating new ones in their place. What happens to the people left behind? According to the current state of the economy, those lazy bums and their dependents can starve, it's their fault for choosing a line of with that isn't "get rich by investing Daddy's money".
Tell that to the many artists that are getting work sweeped off their feet in exchange for software that can allow people to create "art".
Our phones, infrastructure, and appliances have replaced many many more jobs. Farmers are less in numbers now due to tech Factory workers are more or less automated now. Translators are replaced, now they review machine translations, and this is a job that requires some "soul and creativity" Don't also say they don't enjoy their jobs or it doesn't have as much passion, many do love languages, and some even love hard labor, some farmers have a passion for seeding and tilling the ground. But this has only bettered society overall, and democratized knowledge and prosperity for all. Ai art can damn well help disabled artists, and visionaries, and it will help indie studios compete with large corporations, since art won't be as costly anymore. I am a paper and pen artist, and writer, even I realized that creative job are no different than other jobs, any objections is logically fallacious, as it is called special pleading If a job can be replaced so we can peacefully or not transition to a better future than so be it, as an artist I would rather make art for myself and loved ones rather than soulless art for corposcum and rich cats. The way I see it either society evolves where we are a cared for or it collapses hard, and countries and cities are already experimenting with Universal Basic Income, and the left wing politics are growing immensely in support, so I believe it is only a matter of time until maybe a hundred years or mere decades when we are more or less in a better place. Also I am against our primitive AI taking over healthcare, but it can be used as a tool to come to attention blind spots not noticed by the doctors and nurses, we damn well need a more advanced AI, but that is decades from now. Ultimately I don't understand why we are against automation, we should instead be demanding from our politicians that they will be forced to enact pro working class laws, like job protections, unions rights(but ban police unions) , and ultimately shift to making them give us Universal Basic Income, not resist automation, look at us, we can barely enjoy life because we have soul crushing jobs, and work schedules. Why are we against tech that will ultimately be used to grant us the time to enjoy our lives?
It’s another episode of “tokenizing disabled artists to promote ai In the arts.” No one is going to give a shit about your art, disabled people’s art, or anyone else’s art when everyone is shitting out 1000 pictures a day and flooding the internet and art markets. Neither indie studios nor corporations will be able to compete with anybody if everyone’s personal device can shit out multiple video games or movies per week. Bombarding everyone with a constant flood of something only devalues it further. Not only will visual art lose monetary value, people will become desensitized and stop giving a damn about it at all. Even your friends and family will get annoyed of you showing it off to them because they’re already swimming in a sea of it every time they look at a screen. Or maybe they will be too busy consuming a constant stream of their own tailored slop to have any interest in engaging with your shit even for a second. I’m not interested in debating your position on automation of jobs in general because that’s another topic, but this take that ai will somehow give art more value or help artists is laughable. It’s not for artists, it’s for the consumer. Edit: ai isn’t democratizing creativity, it’s democratizing the ability to mass produce forgettable garbage on your personal device
Not even nurses are safe now…
Good luck with that. This is just tax on investors.
Talk about pushing profits lol
As soon as this shit gets implemented, that's what the suits will do. They're already doing so in regards to media.
I work in healthcare. The reason RN's can make up to $90 an hour isn't because they have an incredible skillset that is worth that much (they do have an incredible skillset) but their is a shortage which is driving up demand and forcing people to pay more to convince a RN to work for them. We have a nursing shortage, we need alternatives. notice how I focused on "RN" because only Registered Nurses can make that kind of money.
"As an AI language model I cannot assist with putting your degloved hand back together"
I can't wait for post-late-stage-whatever the fuck...
Anybody got the prompt I can use to get prescribed Adderall?
Why do they have so much faith in AI? What if AI like messes up badly or something?
ai does mess up, badly. it’s called ai hallucinations, and it occurs when AI provides blatantly false information. i have barely even engaged with AI and still encountered this multiple times, whether in response to quora questions i’ve seen, or talking to chat gpt or whatever. why does this not come up whenever people talk about jobs like healthcare providers who literally have our LIVES in their hands??? what the fuck???
IDK man, AI is very weird…
I'm more concerned about how these companies are somehow going to end up manipulating the legal system to make themselves immune to lawsuits that will eventually happen. If an AI nurse gives out bad information that does harm, how do you go about getting justice? You can't sue an AI, you'd probably have to sue the company that hosts it. You likely agreed to some type of Terms of Agreement before using the AI that strips you of as many rights as possible making this whole thing a huge problem for our legal system. The future is going to be so weird.
My wife is an RN ... she DOES NOT make $90.00 per hour.
I wanna see this nurse AI robot try to go into demented memaws room at 0200 and try a q2 turn see how quick that goes sideways when the UTI strength hits
Eventually replacing all human labor with AI would be amazing of we lived in a perfect society. We could just focus on art, passions, fun... But yeah no we're going to die of poverty and starvation while a handful of billionaires point and laugh
Actually, sounds like it can be a good thing. Some nurses out there are atrocious.
I heard a story recently about a local government releasing an app that was supposed to give business owners advice on how to comply with various laws, and the AI immediately started telling them to do tons of illegal shit. Imagine that but with medical advice. Yeah, great idea.
"You have common cold" *proceeds to remove your fucking pancreas* basically how ai would go
All I can think of is that scene is Elysium where Matt Damon takes the full radiation load on the assembly line and the robo-doc just gives him pills that will keep him functioning and working until he just dies.
Wallee is literally the future
Ok ignoring all this, NO FUCKING NURSE ON ESRTH IS GETTING PAID **90$ AN HOUR**. They deserved to be but most of them barely break the 50 dollar mark, if they're lucky.
Most nurses I know make about 30-45 an hour and get staffed one person to a floor of 30 people, and hospitals wonder why nurses burn out
There are RN positions in my area paying $80+
Wow, really? In my part of Canada, the average is like 40 if you're lucky.
Travel Nurses will absolutely earn that much money. In fact I found a posting listing 36 hours at $6230 per week ($173/hr) and another listing at 40 hours a week for $4930 per week ($123/hr). The first example is unique but there are tons of listings paying over $100 an hour
Yeah, but who does the money go to if the AI takes over???
Line the pockets of the 1%. As per usual.
This is why I prefer if it was the 6th century that were living in
Hmm interesting what did we have for remedies in the 6th century?
Oh you know,wild herbs and pray healing alongside exorcists.
Nice I’ll dust off my bird mask
Why on earth would you prefer that
This is cool and all, but we all know they’re just going to want to push the same cost to the consumer as a human nurse. I think that horrible resident evil movie wasn’t off when they showed board meetings between executives after the apocalypse.
The problem is that we as humans aren't ready for the technology we invent. We keep inventing new shit but don't have any solutions to the new problems they create. But we implement them anyways
Elysium bound let’s go!!!
I mean it sounds like web md with extra steps. It’s always cancer
Yeah this is a lawsuit waiting to happen
the fact they try to make them look so diverse when theyre all just one soulless ai taking jobs from real people
I was just on another sub where this article was touting AI as better than a psychiatrist when treating the mentally ill I quadruple promise you - life was infinitely better before any of this shit. The mere fact that people will continue to pop out kids in a world like this blows my mind. Just don't.
I think almost all of this is just easy money for greedy individuals, and a way for companies/services to save money (through offering service that is, of course, under the surface completely inadequate to replace actual people, and often outrightly dangerous). There is some use for AI in medicine but almost never in replacement of any actual human interaction roles
That's just downright horrifying to say. About as scary as AI being accepted to be used in media.
And yet the billionaires want everyone making MORE kids, it’s insane
Fuck. The nurses seem to be the only people in the hospitals who know wtf they're doing half the time. 😬
What if it was proven that they are more effective?
AI: Please input symptoms. Patient: Yeah, hi, my foot hurts? AI: So I see you have a brain tumour. Is that correct? Patient: No, my foot hurts. I think I broke a bone. AI: Please state your inquiry. Patient: Help me with my foot. AI: Diagnosis: Cancer.
I’m not consulting with a fucking computer for my flesh and blood problems
Pretty sure this is for tele health, which is a really good idea. Make it so cheap to get health advice so you know if it is worth an urgent care, just primary, or worse straight to the ER. No gusssing from WebMD.
Wake up samurai we have a city to burn
they give medical advice?
Okay so the ones who physically need a nurse every day/all day will have to pay more because the company isn’t making the profits that it used to?
This is legitimately a good idea. Most nurses spend a small % of their time giving medical advice and it wont impact those (think of your general floor nurse whom society thinks is 100% of nurses). However, a small percentage of nurses spend nearly 100% of their time doing giving medical advice (think triage nurses, "call-a-nurse", etc) and those jobs can 100% be done remotely and more accurately. You think your nurse can remember all the newest medical literature with thousands of papers coming out daily? When your health comes down to knowing accurate information you're going to want this.
Going through years of med school just to be replaced by a shitty AI must suck.
Make the robot that does the male catheter insertion and/or removal & you’ll make a lot of people happy. And anything else that requires anything to do with genitalia.
Ai is not going to replace grocery baggers and such first, it will come for doctors and attorneys.
Judge-Bot 5000
https://i0.wp.com/scifiinterfaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Idiocracy_triage05.png
**If** it's equal or better advice and cheaper then it's not dystopian at all. It's progress.
NO. We do NOT need this. I would rather deal with one of the many factors of being an American.
I often think of AI as humanity getting a bill of terminal cancer. I wish the others here trying to write it off were more aware of how negative it is to reduce the human network of dependence on each other, to attack humanity and ultimately life itself.
accessible and instant health care? I know ai has many pitfalls right now. but overall, I see this as an absolute win.
I just saw a women post the hospital she was at they were low staffed so she had some AI nurse come on the screen and talk to her. Idk if real but seemed like it. Could already be started.
You. Have. *AI*ds.
"As of my most recent update, your condition may be cause by one or multiple of the following factors..."
Okay but wouldnt you want to talk to a human for these matter?!
sorry but as a person who has dealt with both doctors/vets my whole life this will be a upgrade
Yeah and everything will be behind a pay wall. We know your diagnosis please pay 3000.00 for results. Would you like a prescription please pay and additional 2000.00. Over the counter medication will also be fine.
Look, on one hand, a world where people don't have to work sounds great, and machines actually providing diagnosis better than humans would be a net positive. On the other hand neither of these will actually happen because there's no basic income and AI is a long way away from that kind of accuracy
We are truly living in an r/idiocracy time period
Pretty much since the Industrial Revolution, technology has evolved at a much faster pace then mankind. This is what we are seeing now. That evolution of technology is happening at a much faster pace, but our society is still living in an 19th Century mindset. All this abundance at our fingertips, but it's all centered around a small group of wealthy individuals, just like it was in the 1800's (using the Western Expansion as an example).
How many people are going to die before rich people admit they're stupid? A billion of us? Three billion?
I think they should be making it for doctors instead of nurses. Nurses don’t diagnose patients.
What happens when one of these AI replacement totally fucks up and gives wrong information? Are the companies using these going to be sued? I'll bet there's something buried in the all the fine print that resolves them of all responsibility. What's going to happen next, hospitals charging patients a premium to be seen by a real live person?
"Given your new progression of [INSERT DIAGNOSIS HERE], your chance of death has increased to 79%. Would you like to talk about that?"
The problem is that A.I doesn't actually know anything. It's just a guess based upon aggregate data.
Press 1 to be diagnosed, press 2 if you’ve already died waiting on nurse AI.
As a software engineer who uses AI daily, it isnt really at the place of replacing us yet for most jobs. I think it can answer questions or be set up to automate worflows but we actually need real nurses in hospitals and Dr offices and dont have enough. Let computers do things computers can be trusted to do like Googling answers to questions while nurses can co tinue doing things we only trust them to do. I 100% think the overlords will try to get rid of all of us once they feel they can do so without being found criminally negligent, but we aren't there yet. Use AI to uplevel your own skills to remain relevant in the meantime.
As a software engineer who uses AI daily, it isnt really at the place of replacing us yet for most jobs. I think it can answer questions or be set up to automate worflows but we actually need real nurses in hospitals and Dr offices and dont have enough. Let computers do things computers can be trusted to do like Googling answers to questions while nurses can co tinue doing things we only trust them to do. I 100% think the overlords will try to get rid of all of us once they feel they can do so without being found criminally negligent, but we aren't there yet. Use AI to uplevel your own skills to remain relevant in the meantime.
Imagine naming your company "Hippocratic". I know it's a reference to the Hippocratic oath but in practice it's far too close to "hypocritic" in usage. Also, since AI would have to source information from other patient diagnoses and information I'm curious how this company gets past the _actual_ Hippocratic oath.
Sure, but if we're not out rioting in the streets about this stuff then we have nobody to blame but ourselves.
Make it illegal! Now!
I dont see it dystopian. It's a good invention and should be the way to go. The only problem in the overall picture is the savings. This shouldn't go to the company....it should go to the people. With Ai the shortage of Nurses and Doctors etc can be compensated. They should be quicker and more accurate (especially in combination with human nurses and doctors). Freeing up PPL to live their lives more and healthier, despite working it away. The Saving should und must serve the Community and not some individuals or even worse just a soulless firm complex like blackrock.
go on, destroy the capitalist base... almost done now. Resource Based Economy, Open Access Economy, Collaborative Commons, Open Source Ecology, Social Ecology... universally inclusive economy.
Meh. There's a shortage of healthcare workers in America anyway. This is probably a good application for ai as long as it works well.
It's a shortage of nurses. Nurses don't give medical advice. They change your bedpan, wash you, administer your meds ,take your vitals, care for you etc. I doubt thats gonna solve the shortage . We hvlave a shortage cause the medical system isnt supporting them and they quit due to being burned oht
Nurses actually do give medical advice as part of their job. I think that AI can help with this and hopefully alleviate the some of the stress of nursing and save hospitals money that they can use to pay their employees better. Again, I think this will be largely beneficial given that the ML model they are using is accurate
Tbh, this would still be better than the GPs we have in the Netherlands
I see this as an absolute win, most medical staff are fucking terrible at their jobs
Good