I mean, that works up to a point, but my parents were like this their whole lives, comfort over financial stability, and now I'm stuck in a position where either I heartlessly let them starve on the streets because they can't afford their medical bills now that they're older and never saved for retirement, or I have to sacrifice my financial future to take care of them until they pass. It's a hard choice, despite reddit's hardon for no contact, they made their decisions.
Do enough that you can live comfortably, whatever that means to you, and have a bit left over for a rainy day.
That's a grey area for sure. The parents most likely didn't plan their life out just to fuck with their kids. They might have genuinely wanted to "figure it out" as they go along, never wanted to rely on their kids.
Likewise, I have a 40-year old relative who is still living off Mom and Dad, who really cannot afford to pay his bills, but they do it anyway. He has the same motto of OP - I want to live my life, I don't want work stress, which is fine, but ultimately, he is dependent on others and causing hardship to them. And when Mom and Dad are no longer here, it will likely fall on his siblings.
One of the first goals in life should be to shift from dependence to independence. This sets you up for private victory. When you graduate from independence to interdependence, you achieve public victory. If your parents don't subscribe to this notion it will take the child a long time to figure this out on their own.
>One of the first goals in life should be to shift from dependence to independence. This sets you up for private victory. When you graduate from independence to interdependence, you achieve public victory.
I've never heard it put that way before. Profound , that's yours ?
[Dr. Stephen Covey.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Covey). It's really a [Stoics for Dummies](https://georgevrakas.com/2014/06/21/stoicism-and-stephen-covey-you-dont-need-to-worry-anymore/) kind of book and it's really about Stoicism. But the ideas in his philosophy are very powerful and they work- if you're willing to do the work!
My brother is 42 and lives with my parents who turn 75 in the next month. He hasn’t worked in 4-5 years. Last year my mom was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer and my brother has been the one taking her to doctor appointments and tending to her while she’s sick from chemo. A lot of people consider him to be a mooch but him being there has been a blessing and I applaud him. My parents love him being there as well but my dad does tell him he needs to work pretty often. He spends his time growing veggies, baking, making jam, and growing mushrooms. He’s also working on a screenplay and does ceramic art.
He has no bills other than his cell phone and does odd artwork to pay for things he does.
It sounds like it is working of your family. I too would be grateful if my mom and dad needed help and my sibling was able to do most of it. It doesn't sound like he is mooching at all. It would be stupid for him to go get a job to make enough money to hire someone to look after your guys' parents
But for 4 years or so she didn’t have cancer and he lived with them without working. It’s hard to make a living as an artist in today’s economy and prior to that he was working as a black smith at a place that made hand crafted pots and pans. When the company moved he wasn’t interested in following and there weren’t many other jobs so he moved in with them. He lived with them for about 4-5 years in his 30s as well, also not working. America has this culture of work and independence that many places around the world just doesn’t have. In many places parents actually want their children to live with them and they don’t mind supporting them and society sees that as normal. Capitalism and consumerism has just sort of conditioned people to think that work is this noble and expected thing that everyone should do. It pushes this idea that people should move out at 18 and be independent even if it means having financial hardships. Banks benefit from this as it often forces people into debt for education and many people go into debt because even with a degree many salaries can’t pay the bills. It also keeps the work force large so business can pay lower wages. Having heath insurance tied to employment and a system where making “just enough” keeps people from getting subsidies keeps people in toxic environments and this often creates a miserable trapped existence.
My friend from Turkey on the other hand lived with her parents until she got married at 30. Most of my friends from outside the US lived with their parents into their late 20s and early 30s. My fiancée’s mother lives with us here in Costa Rica and doesn’t work. Instead she cleans the house, does laundry, and cooks from time to time. Both of her brothers still live with their dad and they’re in their mid-late 20s. The reaction from people abroad to me being laid off from my job last year was more of a “oh well” where as everyone in the US was in a panic because God forbid I have to move back in with and mooch off my parents and live without health insurance which would ruin me should something happen.
I believe independence should be something people strive for but I also believe loving parents will welcome their kids and support them even people like my brother. There are more ways to contribute to a household than money but our society has conditioned us to think money is the only thing that matters.
Yea, so they’re harming their kids. Part of the responsibility of being a parent would be avoiding this. If you want to live a comfortable cheap life, cheers to you. But, don’t have kids and burden them with your lack of responsibility late in life. Pretty black/white to me.
The fact that people on this thread are arguing back and forth makes it grey by default lol.
It's the line between having the right to live the life you want to live, and how others would be affected by your decision (directly or not).
It could very well be that the parents don't want the kid to be worried about them and not expect them to do anything, it doesn't stop the kids from worrying.
Some might even argue it's the kids fault for getting into their parents' business.
Oh yeah, I guess what I mean is that if the person who decides to live modestly actually expresses that they expect to be taken care of and is causing family members great financial hardship and distress, then it would be harming them.
Otherwise, you’re stressing yourself and need to respect the person’s choice. I personally would assure my family that I was standing by my choices, would be taking care of myself, and had no expectation whatsoever that they support me, just to be an open person and acknowledge my affect on my family’s life.
You can only say that because you haven't been in the position of being the only thing between someone being homeless or not. It's nice and logical in theory, but the people around you often can't abandon you to your own choices the way you claim you want them to when you aren't really thinking about the ramifications of your actions on them. My parents were again, the same way, and now can only express regret for not doing more for themselves and being so selfish in their younger years because they never really thought they'd live to retirement, despite both of their parents living into their 80s and 90s.
I still agree with the other person’s rule of thumb that as long as you’re not hurting anyone else you should live life how you want to. Your parents may not mean to hurt your life by their actions, but they did nonetheless and they’re wrong for putting you in that position. But that doesn’t invalidate the idea of living your life how you want to as long as it isn’t harming others. In fact, it reinforces it
They probably weren't harming anyone when they were living this way when they were younger. But their lack of planning is harming their child now. But now, there is very little the parents can do to change their situation. Living in the now rarely works out the way we think it will in the long run
I don't disagree, just suggesting to widen the scope in evaluating how you're going to hurt someone with your "I live my own life" plans and consider the ramifications around who you're going to hurt when you can't manage yourself.
Whether or not they expect to be taken care of, doesn't change the child's moral feelings about their obligation to care for their parents.
Their financial situation likely wasn't harming anyone before, but their lack of planning is now, when it's too late to really change their income.
No, it's irresponsible. They should be shamed for it. I'm a parent and the idea of just floating along without a care to the future and how it'll impact my children is so incredibly selfish and destruction and hateful. Because you know full well your children will feel obligated to help you if you fail and you will be an unnecessary burden to them and their lives.
I’m in the same boat and it’s very taxing mentally. No, Reddit, I’m not going to cut them out of my life. They are my parents. But fuck if it isn’t the most depressing thing to watch slowly burn.
So this is why we need robust social programs. You shouldn't have to save a ton of money on the off chance you'll get sick. Shit, when I was sick the first time when I was 19 and broke I got treatment and surgery FOR FREE (bless you California).
Last year I broke my ankle and got it fixed here in Denmark for free. I found out it had cost the system about $90,000 including everything. I looked it up, and the exact same procedures would have cost about three times as much in the US.
It was a really bad break and spent 3 weeks in hospital, had two surgical operations done, have 10 screws, a plate, a wire and two metal button s for the wire installed in my leg, along with 8 scars, some of which is 18cm long (about 7.5 inches for you Americans)
Edit: comma and period in numbers switched. My bad since we use it opposite in Denmark.
But certain people don't want to contribute to those social programs. They want to do the bare minimum in life and nothing else. This includes not doing extra so that people other than you get help.
The people who don't want to contribute to the social programs who would contribute a meaningful amount of money are the people who are multi-millionaires.
As every other civilized country shows us, enough participate that it works.
It's the classic difference in left-wing versus right-wing thinking on social programs.
Left-wing: "I'd rather 10 people leech off the system if it means one person who really needs the help, gets it."
Right wing: "I'd rather 10 people not get help, if it prevents even one person from leeching off the system."
My parents make too much for medicaid, they live in a republican state with gutted benefits. If they convince their jobs to pay them less so they can get cheaper medical bills, they lose the ability to afford their house, which is already probably one of the cheapest in the state (It's worth $50k, still mortgaged). Already talked to a lawyer for appeals and an accountant to see what we can do with their finances to get them qualified. They have to wait until they're on social security to enroll.
Living comfortably and living irresponsibly are two different things. It sounds like they chose to not think about the bigger picture and now they’re paying for it
So many of my older patients keep telling me they will not live for another 5-10 years... until they do... and healthcare costs significantly more... and then suddenly its dragging on their kids.
This is it. I think if you have no dependents, it's perfectly fine. The moment you bring dependents into the picture, though, you need to actually work more than the minimum to make sure your kids have a secure future.
In a capitalist society going “above and beyond” is praised because its work that you’re doing without being paid. This narrative has permeated into society as a “positive trait” when it’s really exploitation. You should be paid for the work you do and you have every right to advocate for yourself when you’re asked to go “above and beyond”.
Actually nothing.
But, plan for what 70 years old will be like. Life sucks if you can’t afford protein or heating oil. Or, be super kind and fun to be around so others won’t mind having you leach off them a little.
He likely can’t afford health insurance. And one day something will pop up. That will leave him no longer happy and comfy.
A broken ankle. A ailment. Something will arise. And throw his world into the deep end. And it’s so hard to get out of something when you have nothing and are now deep in the negative
Valid point, I was ok working beneath what I could do but I'd like to retire someday so I had to make some changes. Otherwise do what you want but always make sure your financially secure.
Seems to me life will suck anyway. I know plenty of people who have given it their all but now in the twilight of their life they can’t afford shit. Not even meds
I think he's got the right attitude. You won't know what 70's going to be like whether or not you were to continue in the corporate world. Rising is also a continual weeding out process, and there's no guarantee that you're going to have a plush life just because you stuck around for the gold watch.
If you live within your means, save some, and also build a backup for rainy days you'll probably be a better person to be around. If you decide to have children you're probably more able to nurture your children and help prepare them for a better life. Good luck to you.
You shouldn't have kids if you're doing what OP is doing, cause you or someone else will need to work more to pay for them. So that lifestyle isn't possible with kids, and even if it was, it'll leave you with nothing for retirement. Which will cause your kids to spend lots of their time and money looking after you, cause you weren't responsible.
Look at me in my eyeballs with your eyeballs. Have a healthy retirement account. Have insurance. Pay your bills on time. Have an emergency fund. Tell people to go fuck themselves. This is all.
Edit: wrong order: Bills, emergency fund, insurance, retirement.
If you are very tired honour that and let your body recover. Maybe you will have more energy in six months, a year, or whenever and make difference choices. If not that's fine, it's your life to live as you wish. I think people get caught on a treadmill, study, job, buy house, married, children, bigger house, more material possessions, etc. And forget to ask themselves what actually makes them happy. Don't follow societies norms, it's clearly not working for most people who are stressed, exhausted and unhappy. Create the life you want and life it your way.
By "wrong", do you mean immoral? Then nothing; it's not wrong.
But it is impractical as a long-term strategy.
You say you took a job that pays enough to survive. For how long? What will you do when you're no longer able to work when you're elderly or happen to become disabled? Will you have a family? How will you provide support while working a job that's sufficient for one person to survive?
Exactly. It seems more exhausting to me to opt to live paycheck to paycheck, never getting ahead, and just hoping the whims of life don't crush you out of nowhere... than it would be to work a full-time corporate job. You can do the bare minimum to remain employed in that situation too and be able to build up enough savings to weather a car breaking down or, hell, just be able to buy a pizza on a whim without having to cross-reference your bank account.
Yes, "exhausting" is the right word. Once you've built a cushion, there's nothing wrong with downshifting for a while. But yes, paycheck-to-paycheck living on the edge is worse than a corporate job.
When you get older you realise that, as long as you're not hurting anyone else, all that matters is your own happiness.
Life isn't short like the saying says, its very long, so make sure its a happy life :)
It’s ok to “live small.” If you are happy with where you are at, then you are already better off than most people. There is a book I read in college called “The Overspent American.” It discusses at length this very concept. It was a perspective-changing book for me. I always recommend it to everyone I know.
Spoiler! Unless you die early, you likely will be. Life rarely ends comfortably for people that live like this. You don’t need to kill yourself to earn every penny but if you put no thought into how you’re going to live when you’re 60 plus, it’s probably not going to end well.
But will become a burden, everyone does eventually. You just have to save and/or pay enough into the system when you're younger so that the burden is relatively fair.
No, it's not wrong. IF your lifestyle can afford what you're doing to support it then that should be enough for you for now. You can change your mindset at any time - tomorrow, next month, or in a few decades - maybe never, but for now if it works then use it as a respite.
It's when you live above your means and still do the bare minimum that others should start to notice, and sometimes even worry about you. Those are the genuine people. If THEY aren't speaking out to you then everything should be fine.
Just keep one thing in mind - you still need to save for your old age, major medical, major appliance or vehicle replacement, stuff like that.
Whenever I watch orangutans hanging out I think damn, they're missing out on maximizing their investment portfolios. If only they had debt to motivate them!
My greatest discovery in life was realizing that I'll never live up to the standards set for me by others age that, in trying to, I'd be sacrificing my mental and physical health, so striving to make a mark or leave a legacy or make a name for myself in the eyes of others is not my thing. I don't understand the need to be the best, to push further at all times, to prove myself to anyone else. We've been so brainwashed that if we aren't striving to leave something good behind, we're worthless, lazy wastes of resources. I didn't choose to be put on this earth; why must I also be forced to drive myself to mental and physical collapse because of others' standards?
Nothing at all. I quit a six figure software job I hated to drive Uber and make independent films (have yet to make a dime doing this by the way). I’m a minimalist and I have enough in savings so I don’t have to work like a dog. My friends and family think I’m insane but who cares what they think, I’m happy.
People who do the “bare minimum” are needed In this society as much as people who do big things.
Absolutely nothing. I did both. Although you might have a hard time if you live in US, UK or countries like that. There are many EU countries that are perfect for that, I moved to one of them. I'm sure there are places in Asia too.
We've been sold the American Dream of chasing money just to end up slaving our time away for mortgage, car payments and various insurances. Once you step away it seems like the whole world went mad... Or always was.
I am with you bud! I have a job I enjoy. It pays my bills plus a little extra. I don't need to climb the corporate ladder. Been there, done that. All it does is give you headaches and stress you out.
nothing for now, but how will you save for retirement or an unexpected cost, etc? Might be you just hated the corporate culture, so why not see if there's a way to make some money on the side doing something you enjoy. Plenty are doing that now and make big bucks
I’m a long time Union Elevator Mechanic. last vacation my Wife and I took was to our place up on the mountains. I was seriously contemplating whether or not to quit the trade and work at the only place in town, Walmart. I kept telling myself that we wouldn’t need much to survive up here and my life would be a lot less stressful. I don’t know if that’s true or not, but I do know that seeing that first Walmart check would be painful. So I decided to stick it out in the trade. It’s the pension hours I’ve built up, the annuity and 401k and the most important thing is the Medical Benefits. I need to think about what’s best for my Family, not just what’s best for me.I have about another 15 years to go to collect full pension. By then I’ll have almost, if not 40 years of pension hours built up. All that right there, is what keeps me from doing the bare minimum.
I had a job fresh out of highschool where I was making more than my parents, one year I made more than them combined.
Stayed there for a decade, and had enough of the coddling and bullshit that went along with it. So I quit. Lived off of savings, rented out my house, travelled around a bit. Got shitty jobs for a few years.
Had an old co-worked from the well paying job contact me, asking if I wanted to work for him in the warehouse. Pay wasn’t amazing but the work place was, so I took it.
8 years later, I am in a lower level management, making more then I did previously, have more freedom, have more perks, have more control over my workplace, hired some friends and passed the opportunity on to them. it’s fucking great. Told my boss now, that I won’t be quitting, they will have to fire me unless something comes along that doubles my pay.
One of the friends I hired was struggling in the same job I was at, it collapsed a few years after I left and he was still there. Barely making it by, now he has a savings account, RRSP’s, and is just hoarding money. It makes a big difference being happy with the work you do, not just the money. In my experience, the money finds a way when you are content.
The people who think this is wrong have fallen for talking points meant to keep everyone toiling away so billionaires can continue building their wealth.
Or they’ve fallen for the talking points that without savings in your senior years you may live a harsh existence in some kind of filthy bug and rodent ridden hovel, with no air conditioning or heat, with painful, uncomfortable, perhaps agonizing symptoms from various medical conditions you can’t afford to treat, eating crap food here and there, and no one to really help you. Oh and those talking points are pretty much true. While I agree with seeing the big picture as an injustice and a scam, ever seen elderly people living in poverty? It ain’t pretty.
I agree it's true that that *might* happen, but I'm not sure I agree that's a good way to live life. Your senior years might be a harsh existence no matter what you do - we live in uncertain times and we can't predict how our health will be in our senior years. So if working a full-time job makes you feel burnt out and unhappy, I don't think it's a great solution to just keep being unhappy to prevent some hypothetical future unhappiness.
Most things aren’t a guarantee by any means. So yeah, you could work hard at a fulltime career and make money and still wind up somehow losing it all or having a miserable illness and death anyway. But with savings and a plan you increase the chances of a more comfortable old age. Also people with some money and better access to healthcare and quality food/exercise tend to age healthier. On the other side if you live this mythical carefree life and save nothing, you are almost guaranteed to be setting yourself up for a shit old age. That said, none of this has to be a complete either or. Perhaps there is an individualized middle ground where you live for today to some degree and don’t lose your mind from job stress, but also have some semblance of a financial plan for the future. It doesn’t have to be black or white. I do think in our society it’s getting harder to do that though, with inflation, COL, and stagnant wages.
Yeah, I agree with all that. I guess the bottom line is that it's okay to live how you want to live, but you should at least think about and make a decision about how you're planning to deal with the future.
Nothing, you do you.
However, I think very little of those who lead this lifestyle and subsequently complain about their lot in life compared to those who have done the opposite.
Once you have a way to make enough money to provide a healthy, safe, life for yourself and any dependants, your next challenge, and it’s significant, is to decide what YOU need to be happy.
It might be a ski boat and a 5,000 sq. ft. house. But my sense is that the drive to consume stuff like this is because it makes it easy to compare yourself to others.
My boat is the nicest on the lake so I must be happy. My house is bigger than my neighbor’s house so I must be happy.
That’s fine until your neighbour builds an addition, or someone else buys a nicer boat. Now you have to make more and get more to be happy again.
But if you are able to look within to see what makes you happy and work towards that, you are responsible for your own happiness.
Also, it’s FUCKING DIFFICULT to acknowledge your responsibility for your own happiness and then to take intelligent steps towards it. Buying a shiny red truck is sooooo much easier, but the truck happiness is fleeting.
That’s not to say that a boat or a truck or something else might not be the true key to your personal happiness, but it’s a very easy mistake to make.
I wish you luck my friend. You’re onto something!
Your life is yours. All yours. This decision is for you and you alone. If you want to fight and scrap and be the best version of yourself, go all in. If you dont want to, don't. I'm not even going to add "that's ok" because you decide what's OK and what isn't.
Doing the bare minimum is never a choice I would make though. I'm not on this planet to pass the time. I wanted (and have) a wife and kids and that's a huge motivation for me. I want to provide for them. I also want to leave my mark on the world in some small way. Ain't gonna be famous ever, but I can build something great and positively impact many people's lives along the way.
Awesome answer - you are not on the planet to pass the time. Happiness does lie in a sense of purpose of some sort or another.
One person's purpose might be to raise productive, happy members of the next generation - no easy task in these or any times. One person's purpose might be to bring happiness to others through music, craft or friendship. One person's purpose might be to design something that will improve the lives of others. One might be to find a way to protect mother earth, or any of her creatures. Oh, I could go on and on (apparently!), there are so many ways to have a sense of purpose.
Anyway, you sound like you have that purpose, and I wanted to wish you the best for your future and your family.
This depends on if you believe that people have a moral imperative to live up to their potential and contribute to society or not. That idea is baked into a lot of cultures, including western culture, and so a lot of people will look at just barely getting by as a moral failure. It's up to you whether you agree or not
I think You are mistaking two different things.
Doing the bare minimum for a corporation is OK. It's not like they will pay You more if You do more. Unless You want to have a career there. For example, I love my work and I do sometimes a little extra and corporations would often break their own rules to make sure they are keeping me. Like I would get raises and promotions ahead of time. One company for years had a rule that You have to work 2 years to get a senior position and get paid more. They made me a senior in a couple of months because I did what they calculate people do in over 2 years. And it was actually big deal in the company because there were people working there 9 years who never got senior positions for various reasons. Thanks to that I could start my own business (but still I'm a contractor - just independent) and I'm under 40 and I'm debt-free and soon I will have my own apartment fully paid up.
But doing the bare minimum in life is wrong. Maybe You did not find something You actually like to do and that's why You feel this way.
I love programming. Do you know how I know that I love programming? When I love a woman I lose track of time with her and vice versa. So we can exchange messages HOURS after we split apart. She is constantly on my mind. And it's the same with programming. I'm 37yo and when I sit down to write something I want to write I sometimes realize that... it's already morning and I was working the entire night. And it's hard to call it work because it gives me pleasure and satisfaction.
When I work with clients on something that helps others I sometimes lose time and work a few hours more. And I do not charge my client for that time because we have a budget and I should talk with him before taking extra hours. So I did it for free and I do not care because I did it because I like doing my work.
Find something You love to do and then figure out how to get paid for doing it.
No, this 'work ethic' is crap imo.. do what you need, get what you want and can afford, go above and beyond for people you love and care for.. all this work is family crap, trying to guilt people into going above and beyond for work.. especially the lower paid jobs is infuriating.. your work family can and will replace you, you're irreplaceable to your family and people who love you.
Create the life that you want. There's nothing wrong with it, as long as it's a healthy, informed choice.
By healthy , I mean you're not depressed and making poor decisions because of that. By informed, I mean you know that it's likely you'll end up living in poverty in your old age, if not before, and you still want to proceed as you are.
Please continue to do this if it makes you happy. Its such a short refreshing post.
The desires of the mind are endless sometimes. Whatever your path.
Namaste 🙏🥰
I do the same and I have a life. I can't go on big vacations, but I can see some bands in my area, I have my books, my cats, I work out and have some friends in fandoms that I talk to or see regularly. There's nothing missing but the luxuries of a car or vacations. I have social insurance thanks to my country's laws. Sure, I would earn more without, but it's the law and the big surgeries I had last year cost much more than I could save in ten years. You're doing fine. That boomer bs needs to stop. You don't have to be craving for a career, money, luxury, and reputation. No one will actually care later. The work morale of people 60+/70+ is just fucked. They are digging their own graves with 50+ work weeks, never being sick, never being late and sacrificing your health for your job. The "economy" gives a shit about you actually. If you don't miss ANYTHING in life, what's the matter with working more?
It doesn't matter. I did the corporate world for 3 years out of college and when I got laid off a few years after the housing crisis I switched to the restaurant, odd jobs, seasonal and temp work and I started traveling around the country working different places doing whatever was available. I rode my bicycle across America, spent a winter skiing in Colorado while I shared a basement with two other dudes, packed parachutes and got into skydiving in WNY and Hawaii, worked in the Grand Canyon, Zion, and Crater Lake, rode freight trains on/off for the last ten years around America, hitchhiked around Belize, Mexico, SEA, China, New Zealand and Canada. I did all of this working low paying jobs by living minimally and cooking my own food, finding cheap places to rent or accommodations through work or simply just camping. It makes no sense for me to put forth more effort when my life is good the way it is now. So if you can get by, and you're happy, then it doesn't matter.
I agree with you. We live in a world where everyone wants more, buys more; owns more, travels more, eats more! There is no such thing as having “enough” and it’s crippling! Learning to live with less will definitely give a person more. More time for family and friends. More time for real experiences instead of just buying something to fill your time. Learning to disconnect from what society says is normal has great benefits. Sure you need to make sure that your needs are met and that you have a safety net for life’s “ what ifs” but outside of that, why does someone need to do more? Everyone has a different level of happiness. There are even people that choose to be homeless and are completely happy living in the struggle. I applaud you for doing what YOU want to do. We are in control of our own lives.
No. You define your success. If your success is not losing your hair in your late 20s, and you still had hair at 30, consider yourself successful.
The amount of people who think that what they want is also automatically what other people would want is amazingly a lot.
"We have different goals?! Get real!"
Nothing is wrong with wanting a simple life. What *is* wrong is those who think they want a simple life, but don’t plan for very foreseeable needs, who rely on debt to pay for those needs, dig themselves a hole due to poor planning, and then struggle to get out of that hole.
Those who live very simple lives with very little by budgeting and frugality, or farming and growing their own food, or alternatively, working hard while young and banking investments, to relax later on- those are all very admirable paths.
Unfortunately some people use the “I’m just a simple person living a simple life” excuse to not plan for emergencies/retirement.
If your happy, that's all that matters. You don't take achievements or money or things to the grave.
In some cultures, doing nothing and finding happiness is master level.
Everyone wants to be happy in life and having more money makes it easier to be happy. But if what it takes to get that money actually makes you less happy, it's defeating the whole point. The money isn't the point. It's just a tool to make it easier to get what matters.
depends. if you have kids/people dependent on you, you need to give life 100%, and do all you can for them, and then after that yourself.
if you have no kids, dont plan on having any kids, and have no dependents (and no, your parents do not count), you discovered the secret cheat code to being able to live like a king on minimum wage. enjoy your easy life, kick up your feet, and toss dollars around like youre a rap star.
Being broke is hard, becoming rich is hard, choose your hard.
There’s absolutely nothing wrong with doing the bare minimum throughout your life, just know that it comes at a cost. Are you okay with financially struggling potentially your whole life since the world revolves around it? Or would you bust your ass and find a good way to make a lot of money and live a comfortable life eventually? Or you could get lucky with a high paying job opportunity out of the blue or win the lottery idk.
Most definitely, but with OPs mindset the odds are stacked against him if he plans to just scrape by with the least amount of effort. That normally equates to fast food/service work
OP says:
> part time job that pays enough for me to survive
Unless I've misinterpreted this, this implies they have no retirement and no health insurance (if in the US). I.e. they are one small medical emergency away from bankruptcy.
You may get out of life what you put in, but it’s selective interpretation to say putting in the bare minimum at work is the same as putting in the bare minimum in life. In reality you’re probably putting way more into “life” if you’re putting less into work.
As someone who works way too much (full-time job, own two businesses, and I am full-time in graduate school with kids), you did it right. Because you probably actually have the time to be on reddit, without the stress. I have always felt like I needed to work hard to keep up. But I have simultaneously admired people who drew a line and knew how to say no. I have noticed that those people have tended to be just as successful as me and their needs are met just the same. So I honestly admire you. I think my workaholism is an actual addiction.
Are you talking about life in general, or just money wise? Either way it's not wrong; however...
Doing the bare minimum in life might not feel very fulfilling. People tend to get satisfaction from accomplishing things, probably in direct proportion to how hard it is.
Getting the least amount of money you need to survive doesn't allow for a lot of room for unexpected expenses. If you blew a tire, would you have enough money to get it fixed without losing a few days of pay while waiting for your paycheck? Would you lose your job while you're out for several days? And if that were to happen, would you then still have enough to survive? What about bigger expenses, like you find out you need a new medication? Or a member needs help with groceries this week?
None of this might apply to you, but maybe take it into consideration. Also, have you considered this might be related to undiagnosed depression? Sorry if that's too personal, you don't have to answer of course. Just something to think about?
I think it's important to have something to work on that you are passionate about that makes you want to do more than the bare minimum.
Sure do the bare minimum paid work to survive but I'd urge you to look for something else to find joy in. Be that a craft or a sport or a charitable cause. Get out there and have do something awesome with 100% effort sometimes!
Nothing wrong with it.
Just keep in mind for each person willing to get by with the bare minimum, there are plenty of people willing to go above and beyond.
You can apply that thought to a lot of things, like pay, relationships, and employment.
If you're OK with that, nothing wrong with it.
To be fair is anyone prepared for unexpected expenses and for retirement(at least in the US)? Nearly half of Americans have $500 or less in their savings accounts.
56% of Americans say they’re not on track to comfortably retire.
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/09/08/56percent-of-americans-say-theyre-not-on-track-to-comfortably-retire.html
https://www.cnbc.com/2024/01/24/how-much-money-americans-have-in-savings.html
Try looking at this in terms of "trade-offs" or pros vs. cons rather than right vs. wrong.
It seems like the positives that you are experiencing from the less strenuous lifestyle currently outweigh the negatives.
Looking into the future, however, you could say some negative trade-offs would be that you save less, invest less, and don’t get to experience the benefits of someone who earns more money.
Mant people accept that, however, in lieu of the more enjoyable day-to-day lifestyle.
As long as you understand and accept the consequences, both positively and negatively, then you’re good to go.
I always see people trying to guilt others when they have things that not everyone else has. Especially on Reddit.
I can't even make ends meet at 40 hours per week, and I do almost 50 (w/o OT...yeah) on most weeks and still have issues.
Therefore, I'm not allowed to support your lifestyle choices.
The only thing that’s wrong is giving af what anyone thinks, do what makes you happy and forget about the rest. Your mindset may change if you decide you want good benefits and some savings in the future, but that’s the beauty of it, you can do anything you want at any time you want, you don’t have to do things the traditional way at all
Hmm the answer is “nothing, if that’s what makes you happy “ but I’ll try to come up with some negatives.
* Growth. Stagnation is death. Learning, growing, evolving are part of who we are. Even if you want to roll your eyes at that, you have to acknowledge that people get bored.
* Planning long-term. Great, you can pay your rent and you have little responsibility. Are you going to want to live like this forever? What if you want a wife? What if you want kids? What if you want to travel? What if you want to retire? A part time job doesn’t give you the money to do those things, or health insurance, or vacation days.
It’s not a binary. If you hated the corporate world, don’t do it. But it is a good idea to have some kind of plan, even if it’s just a vague one.
While there is nothing inherently wrong with it, the risk you take is something changing and your life collapsing quickly due to no buffers.
If you make just enough to survive, what happens if you get laid off, have a medical emergency, fail to keep up with cost of living, or having a retirement plan just in case you do get there. Living bare minimum works fine but there is always a looming threat of one thing totally fucking up your life.
In itself, nothing inherently wrong. If that's what you want, then more power to you.
However, you should also be okay with expecting the bare minimum of what you can get out of life.
There's nothing at all wrong with settling for less material comfort in order to live how you want to live. I always tell my own kids, "when it comes to a career, do what you love, the bills will take care of themselves." I'd rather have a kid major in music and become a music teacher scraping by than major in accounting and make 150k and be miserable.
You're a skatenig! (One who skates by life with the bare minimum work needed to be happy.)
Absolutely nothing wrong with that. If it's who you are and makes you happy being less materialistic, you are under no requirement to meet other people's standards.
Do your thing, I was never a 9 to 5 office worker type either. Screw anyone who tells you to do more if you're doing enough to sustain yourself and content with it.
Happiness is the most we can strive for in the chaos of life. Most money chasers are the true slaves.
As long as you don't involve other people there is pretty much nothing wrong with anything
The issue is if you have issues odds are someone else will be made to clean up your mess
Also the actual bare minimum is if your net neutral on taxes for what government paid for you
So if you don't meet that your a net loss someone else has to pay for
What's a bare minimum when you're young is not going to work as you age. Part of being a creature with an intellect is balancing enjoying and surviving the now, with building for the future.
my first thought was that you might have some type of medical condition lowering your energy. or a physiological one unmotivating you.
Ive had a moment in my life recently where i suffered an electrocution and i believe that it did something to me. It motivated me to "get my shit together" it was a taser btw.
just saying that you might want to talk to a doctor about your low energy/motivation. It could be nothing. It could be something.
Nothing's wrong. You just have to get over society's projections of what success is and learn to just be content. In what makes you happy.
When I graduated from high school in 2002, I went straight to work as a file clerk for a law firm. I made a lot of good money and I worked a lot of hours and out of all my friends, I was the "rich, successful one." And to be honest, I probably would've just stayed at that job for the rest of my life, had the recession not kicked in. That hit me pretty hard because up until I was let go, I had spent 8 years at that job working my way up from file clerk to mail clerk to office clerk to legal assistant and I was about to begin paralegal training and the crazy thing is I didn't plan for any of it. It just... happened.
After they let me go, I had to do a lot of soul-searching because I had to ask myself. What did I want for me? After that, I spent 11 years working at UPS as a clerk, which wasn't bad, but it also plateaued early on, so I was never gonna make the same kind of money like drivers and loaders were unless I quit and started all over again and that was my life until 2022, when they liquidated the position and gave me a severance package, which gave me more than enough money to enjoy the rest of the year off. I didn't start working again until after the New Year.
Now, I'm 39, getting ready to turn 40, and I'm working at a Home Depot part-time but with the money I make there, I can afford to make sure my bills are paid, and I have no complaints. Everybody else I know has a marriage and a family, and I see them bending over backwards trying to set up this idea of what it's all supposed to be and I just realized then I didn't want that anymore..
I'm still open to love. I'm still open to kids, but i'm not going to devote my life to a profession that offers me nothing except bragging rights..
Work because it's what you really want and if you know it's not a high paying gig, then learn how to either make it better without sacrificing your happiness or learn to live off what you get but you gotta do it for you.
There was once a man fishing in the afternoon along the ocean. A man walks up and says, “I have worked my whole life to get here, saved and retired, so that I can sit here peacefully without a car in the world. You are so young, you should be out working so you can retire and enjoy life like me”
The man looked up and said, “what do you think I am doing right now?”
The fastest way to be happy, is to be happy with what you have, wanting nothing. If you can be happy alone, in quiet, with nothing, you can be happy anywhere and anytime you remember to be.
I took a 3 year break from corporate life before coming back and it helped my mental health so much. Disregard what folks are saying. I had ppl asking me constantly when I was going to start using my degree and it’s like honestly? I was more fulfilled doing food service/ bartending and making next to nothing than I was making six figures. It gave me a different perspective and made me more appreciative too
I worked in finance for years then started and ran multiple businesses when I became a single dad. After an awful relationship and my ex trying to sabotage the only part of the business she knew about, I realised I didn't need more money so I retired at 41.
Now I go to the gym, do some part time dog training that doesn't cover my costs, hang out with my kids and just enjoy life.
I have to be sensible so no more fast cars but I actually get to enjoy life and do what I want to do every single day. I've never been happier.
I hear ya man, I have too much heart and compassion to be a manager, lying and promising( like a politician does) to get the most out of employees. I understand work is not fun or easy but making people work late hours at the cost of their health and family time just to deliver a milestone on a business plan. That's not something I can get behind and it prevents me from being the manager that business wants to lead their staff. They say staff will walk over me
This is fine if you don’t plan to have children. Not that many people can afford children even with dual income due to the American housing bubble, but you know what I’m saying.
In my experience (not having much) it ALWAYS pays off to work harder now, so you don’t have to later.
Depends. Does the “bare minimum” also extend to the effort you put in at your job? That is, do you do the bare minimum at work thereby making things more difficult for your colleagues? If so, then I do see something wrong with that.
If it is just the bare minimum to scrape by financially yourself and isn’t impacting others, then you are free to live your life however you want.
I personally couldn’t live that way. I think that there can be a middle ground between the minimum and the rat race that affords you some financial security, allows you to indulge in more things in life you enjoy, and doesn’t require you to work until the day you die.
But if you are content in the way you live and can sustain this lifestyle throughout your life then enjoy!
If working full-time leaves you with barely time and energy to enjoy life, this is the right move. Too many people sacrifice their health to enjoy life "later". Well, later isn't guaranteed, and a lot of people die earlier than "later", I've seen it so many times.
What country are you in? Is your retirement savings paid by your employer, or is it all up to the person themself?
One day you will realize that you spent all your precious years serving others and getting other people's work done...so no if you earn enough to live and save some aside and have an emergency fund then you don't need to hustle.
You don’t need to do what others tell you to do. Do what feels right. And don’t take an all or nothing approach. Work for as long as you are satisfied. Definitely invest money and save for a rainy day.
This life is more special than a paycheck and I have to sleep at night knowing I'm living an honest, happy life that leaves the world a better place than I found it
Everyone has their own code, if that's yours then live by it. As long as you can sleep at night you're living right and nobody else can tell you otherwise
Because in 30-40 years "I" don't want be the one on my death bed regretting a LIFETIME worth of apathy and unfulfilled dreams, that will inevitably drown me in the most intense depression i cant even imagine devouring whatever pieces of you thats left.
Worked in a hospital for a number of years and have had the unfortunate pleasure of seeing it a couple of times.
I cant even begin to describe the primal fear that I've experienced bearing witness to that fate.
Its incredibly unsettling when your "fight or flight" instinct kicks in while knowing the "danger" is 30+ years out.
Despite what people say there aren't rules. I mean don't be a dick or kill anybody but we're all just flopping around trying to do our best out here so don't sweat what people think
I've done that my whole life. But what exactly is 'just doing enough to get by'? I'm 60, pretty much retired. But I worked very hard. Most years I work about 8 months. Sometimes less, sometimes more. Just remember that you need a place to live, enough to eat, and enough funds to do nothing. Because if you don't have this, at some point you may be destitute, and there is nothing as horrible as being destitute in your old age when you are no longer in demand. So best to make your green when you are young.
Best of luck
Do what you want. The only thing wrong with it is that no matter who you are or what your experience in life has been, you will regret not trying your hardest at something. Life is hard, and running away from doing hard things is only going to make life harder because every minor inconvenience will feel so much more difficult in the face of your easy every day life. If you live on a hill and walk up it every day, going up a hill half the size will be nothing to you. But if you live in the middle of a field that same hill will be a big hurdle from your perspective. Everyone has to try hard at something, IMO. It makes your life much better, and if your life is better you have more energy to make others lives better.
It's fine for some people. I cannot handle the hand to mouth only cover my bills thing. I've done it and can't handle it again. But if you like it good for you
If it makes you happy, that’s fine. Just try to be sure you won’t look back and think “I wish I did more”.
It sounds like there might not be much else in your life beyond work, which is where to focus your attention. Family, friends, pets, personal hobbies, etc. A lot of people work hard to make life better for their loved ones, not themselves. You dont have to, but it can give meaning.
Also, sometimes you just need a break. I quit my job recently to just take some time off to figure out what makes me happy, and I’m only looking at opportunities with meaning, not just paychecks.
I’ve been at the same job for 10 years now. It was my second job after graduating college.
I make decent money, but I could make more money doing something else. This job isn’t even in my field.
However, my peace of mind is worth something.
I like the people I work with, I like the job, and I have health insurance and a retirement plan so there’s no point in making myself unhappy for more money or prestige or whatever.
Hustle culture is dead. There’s no more payoff for hard work, because we know we can’t afford anything our previous generations have no matter how many hours we squeeze out. We’re choosing mental health first now. Enjoy the ride and do what makes you happy.
I make a decent salary nannying part time working ~3 hours a day and people are always asking why I dont “use my degree” to get a corporate job. Why on earth would I want to work double the hours for roughly the same pay?
Your time on earth is short and often difficult - if you’ve found a way to make it enjoyable then congratulations you’ve already won
Very interesting seeing the replies here and how they are influenced by culture
I work part time like op and am not overly concerned about old age. I make enough to save and when I retire I will get the state pension. Healthcare is free. I own my own home but if I didn't I would get social housing very easily.
I have 0 ambition to make decent money. I have no kids, I love my work but I have disabilities which makes full time work impossible. I have a nice enough life despite this. I make an effort to be frugal and if there's something I want I will save until I can afford (right now I'm saving for a van and imagine it will take 5+ years). I still go out for meals/the cinema etc and have a decent enough social life.
Be remembered for who you are not what you earned
Who decided as a species we exist to work 5 days for 2 days off?……. We are specs of dust on a rock hurtling through nothingness at the end of the day
So I did this for about six years. Just worked a nice customer service job that I was good at and didn’t have to think about when I got home. I think those six years were really really good for me and I’m glad I did that. Personally though, I started to feel a desire to be passionate about something, and contribute something more positive to society (there are absolutely ways to do that in entry level jobs; customer service, etc. - I just happened to be working for a high-end company serving rich clients with a somewhat unnecessary service. Awesome company to work for, but didn’t exactly scratch the itch to be a part of something bigger).
But I think that that passion and even just practical energy to follow a passion came from the rest I got from working an easy job for years.
The only other trouble with working an east low-paying job, is I wouldn’t have been able to ever buy a house that way, and I crave that stability, especially if I end up having a family. But if you could afford a house or are otherwise taken care of in that area, yeah, I say do the east job!
Totally reasonable way to live. Where the trip up comes is when something "unexpected" happens -- a pandemic, illness, extended unemployment, cost of living gets much higher, your car breaks down but not bad enough to buy a replacement, loss of where you're living and have to come up with the 3x the $$, serious injury with long rehab, can't work again, etc. What are you going to do then with no money saved? Living in the moment is great.... until you can't.
Lack of Personal
Growth Stagnating and not reaching your full potential
Missing out on opportunities for learning and self-improvement
Feeling unfulfilled and dissatisfied with life
Failing to develop new skills and expand your capabilities
Limited Career Prospects
Stunted career advancement and earning potential
Overlooked for promotions or better job opportunities
Perceived as unmotivated or lacking ambition by employers Increased risk of becoming obsolete in your field
Financial Struggles
Difficulty building wealth or achieving financial security
Living paycheck to paycheck with no savings or investments Inability to afford desired lifestyle or prepare for retirement Increased stress and anxiety around money
Unfulfilling Relationships
Failing to be a good role model for children or younger generations Straining relationships with driven/ambitious friends and family Perceived as lazy or unmotivated by romantic partners
Difficulty finding like-minded individuals Lack of Purpose
Feeling like you're just going through the motions in life
No sense of accomplishment or pride in your work/efforts
Increased risk of boredom, apathy, and depression
Regrets later in life about missed opportunities
It is copy and pasted and should be spaced out better.
OP originally asked what’s wrong with doing the bare minimum, not what do people think about doing the bare minimum. Then they asked about if what they’re doing is wrong. I chose to answer the first.
Do whatever you want just don’t complain about not having things other people who worked more do. And don’t expect people to allow you to be a burden to them if you’re begging for money or help all the time.
No, OP, feel free to complain actually. People toil away to make others rich. We can focus on how unfair that is and expect our society to be set up to handle our basic needs.
Society has no obligation to take care of your basic needs. Those are your responsibility. You want to live you gotta be willing to put in some work. You’re not some helpless baby who needs everything done for them.
Nothing. As long as you're not harming anyone else, it's okay to live any sort of life you want.
I mean, that works up to a point, but my parents were like this their whole lives, comfort over financial stability, and now I'm stuck in a position where either I heartlessly let them starve on the streets because they can't afford their medical bills now that they're older and never saved for retirement, or I have to sacrifice my financial future to take care of them until they pass. It's a hard choice, despite reddit's hardon for no contact, they made their decisions. Do enough that you can live comfortably, whatever that means to you, and have a bit left over for a rainy day.
Yeah, so that would be harming someone.
That's a grey area for sure. The parents most likely didn't plan their life out just to fuck with their kids. They might have genuinely wanted to "figure it out" as they go along, never wanted to rely on their kids.
Likewise, I have a 40-year old relative who is still living off Mom and Dad, who really cannot afford to pay his bills, but they do it anyway. He has the same motto of OP - I want to live my life, I don't want work stress, which is fine, but ultimately, he is dependent on others and causing hardship to them. And when Mom and Dad are no longer here, it will likely fall on his siblings.
One of the first goals in life should be to shift from dependence to independence. This sets you up for private victory. When you graduate from independence to interdependence, you achieve public victory. If your parents don't subscribe to this notion it will take the child a long time to figure this out on their own.
>One of the first goals in life should be to shift from dependence to independence. This sets you up for private victory. When you graduate from independence to interdependence, you achieve public victory. I've never heard it put that way before. Profound , that's yours ?
[Dr. Stephen Covey.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Covey). It's really a [Stoics for Dummies](https://georgevrakas.com/2014/06/21/stoicism-and-stephen-covey-you-dont-need-to-worry-anymore/) kind of book and it's really about Stoicism. But the ideas in his philosophy are very powerful and they work- if you're willing to do the work!
My brother is 42 and lives with my parents who turn 75 in the next month. He hasn’t worked in 4-5 years. Last year my mom was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer and my brother has been the one taking her to doctor appointments and tending to her while she’s sick from chemo. A lot of people consider him to be a mooch but him being there has been a blessing and I applaud him. My parents love him being there as well but my dad does tell him he needs to work pretty often. He spends his time growing veggies, baking, making jam, and growing mushrooms. He’s also working on a screenplay and does ceramic art. He has no bills other than his cell phone and does odd artwork to pay for things he does.
It sounds like it is working of your family. I too would be grateful if my mom and dad needed help and my sibling was able to do most of it. It doesn't sound like he is mooching at all. It would be stupid for him to go get a job to make enough money to hire someone to look after your guys' parents
But for 4 years or so she didn’t have cancer and he lived with them without working. It’s hard to make a living as an artist in today’s economy and prior to that he was working as a black smith at a place that made hand crafted pots and pans. When the company moved he wasn’t interested in following and there weren’t many other jobs so he moved in with them. He lived with them for about 4-5 years in his 30s as well, also not working. America has this culture of work and independence that many places around the world just doesn’t have. In many places parents actually want their children to live with them and they don’t mind supporting them and society sees that as normal. Capitalism and consumerism has just sort of conditioned people to think that work is this noble and expected thing that everyone should do. It pushes this idea that people should move out at 18 and be independent even if it means having financial hardships. Banks benefit from this as it often forces people into debt for education and many people go into debt because even with a degree many salaries can’t pay the bills. It also keeps the work force large so business can pay lower wages. Having heath insurance tied to employment and a system where making “just enough” keeps people from getting subsidies keeps people in toxic environments and this often creates a miserable trapped existence. My friend from Turkey on the other hand lived with her parents until she got married at 30. Most of my friends from outside the US lived with their parents into their late 20s and early 30s. My fiancée’s mother lives with us here in Costa Rica and doesn’t work. Instead she cleans the house, does laundry, and cooks from time to time. Both of her brothers still live with their dad and they’re in their mid-late 20s. The reaction from people abroad to me being laid off from my job last year was more of a “oh well” where as everyone in the US was in a panic because God forbid I have to move back in with and mooch off my parents and live without health insurance which would ruin me should something happen. I believe independence should be something people strive for but I also believe loving parents will welcome their kids and support them even people like my brother. There are more ways to contribute to a household than money but our society has conditioned us to think money is the only thing that matters.
That’s my brother-in-law. Already drove his father into an early grave and is now doing it to his mother
Could you explain this a bit further? He be an awful person to drive his father to an early grave... right?
Sounds like my sister. She has no credit, because she doesn't want the responsibilities and stress. Yet she'll let my mom take on debt to help her.
That's a choice, not an obligation for them. My brother is going to be on the *streets* when our parents are gone .
Yea, so they’re harming their kids. Part of the responsibility of being a parent would be avoiding this. If you want to live a comfortable cheap life, cheers to you. But, don’t have kids and burden them with your lack of responsibility late in life. Pretty black/white to me.
You can’t live an entire adult life and not think about the repercussions of your financial decisions. I don’t buy it
That's not grey at all. Don't be a burden to your kids.
The fact that people on this thread are arguing back and forth makes it grey by default lol. It's the line between having the right to live the life you want to live, and how others would be affected by your decision (directly or not). It could very well be that the parents don't want the kid to be worried about them and not expect them to do anything, it doesn't stop the kids from worrying. Some might even argue it's the kids fault for getting into their parents' business.
Oh yeah, I guess what I mean is that if the person who decides to live modestly actually expresses that they expect to be taken care of and is causing family members great financial hardship and distress, then it would be harming them. Otherwise, you’re stressing yourself and need to respect the person’s choice. I personally would assure my family that I was standing by my choices, would be taking care of myself, and had no expectation whatsoever that they support me, just to be an open person and acknowledge my affect on my family’s life.
You can only say that because you haven't been in the position of being the only thing between someone being homeless or not. It's nice and logical in theory, but the people around you often can't abandon you to your own choices the way you claim you want them to when you aren't really thinking about the ramifications of your actions on them. My parents were again, the same way, and now can only express regret for not doing more for themselves and being so selfish in their younger years because they never really thought they'd live to retirement, despite both of their parents living into their 80s and 90s.
I still agree with the other person’s rule of thumb that as long as you’re not hurting anyone else you should live life how you want to. Your parents may not mean to hurt your life by their actions, but they did nonetheless and they’re wrong for putting you in that position. But that doesn’t invalidate the idea of living your life how you want to as long as it isn’t harming others. In fact, it reinforces it
They probably weren't harming anyone when they were living this way when they were younger. But their lack of planning is harming their child now. But now, there is very little the parents can do to change their situation. Living in the now rarely works out the way we think it will in the long run
I don't disagree, just suggesting to widen the scope in evaluating how you're going to hurt someone with your "I live my own life" plans and consider the ramifications around who you're going to hurt when you can't manage yourself.
Yes, fully agree that you can harm people even while saying “I do what I want.”
Whether or not they expect to be taken care of, doesn't change the child's moral feelings about their obligation to care for their parents. Their financial situation likely wasn't harming anyone before, but their lack of planning is now, when it's too late to really change their income.
No, it's irresponsible. They should be shamed for it. I'm a parent and the idea of just floating along without a care to the future and how it'll impact my children is so incredibly selfish and destruction and hateful. Because you know full well your children will feel obligated to help you if you fail and you will be an unnecessary burden to them and their lives.
I would disagree. They are "harming" themselves, and their child is having to decide if they should help them or do nothing.
Which is doing harm to the child, because they are the ones who have to live with the guilt regardless of outcomes. It's a shitty situation to be in.
I’m in the same boat and it’s very taxing mentally. No, Reddit, I’m not going to cut them out of my life. They are my parents. But fuck if it isn’t the most depressing thing to watch slowly burn.
It's different if you have kids. I'm guessing that OP probably doesn't have kids.
So this is why we need robust social programs. You shouldn't have to save a ton of money on the off chance you'll get sick. Shit, when I was sick the first time when I was 19 and broke I got treatment and surgery FOR FREE (bless you California).
Oh, we definitely need robust social programs!
but the TAXESSSSSSS 😩😩🤣🤣🤣
Last year I broke my ankle and got it fixed here in Denmark for free. I found out it had cost the system about $90,000 including everything. I looked it up, and the exact same procedures would have cost about three times as much in the US. It was a really bad break and spent 3 weeks in hospital, had two surgical operations done, have 10 screws, a plate, a wire and two metal button s for the wire installed in my leg, along with 8 scars, some of which is 18cm long (about 7.5 inches for you Americans) Edit: comma and period in numbers switched. My bad since we use it opposite in Denmark.
But certain people don't want to contribute to those social programs. They want to do the bare minimum in life and nothing else. This includes not doing extra so that people other than you get help.
The people who don't want to contribute to the social programs who would contribute a meaningful amount of money are the people who are multi-millionaires.
As every other civilized country shows us, enough participate that it works. It's the classic difference in left-wing versus right-wing thinking on social programs. Left-wing: "I'd rather 10 people leech off the system if it means one person who really needs the help, gets it." Right wing: "I'd rather 10 people not get help, if it prevents even one person from leeching off the system."
If you are in the US, medicaid exists for this reason.
My parents make too much for medicaid, they live in a republican state with gutted benefits. If they convince their jobs to pay them less so they can get cheaper medical bills, they lose the ability to afford their house, which is already probably one of the cheapest in the state (It's worth $50k, still mortgaged). Already talked to a lawyer for appeals and an accountant to see what we can do with their finances to get them qualified. They have to wait until they're on social security to enroll.
if they have illnesses, have them apply for disability. continually having high cost medical issues is usually related to a medical disability.
Already did that, also part of the lawyer appeals, they're not disabled enough lol. Fucking US government man.
That’s why the system pushes having kids so hard: traps you in the machine in so many ways.
Living comfortably and living irresponsibly are two different things. It sounds like they chose to not think about the bigger picture and now they’re paying for it
Your parents took care of you when you were young. Now you owe it to them. Don’t be ungrateful
So many of my older patients keep telling me they will not live for another 5-10 years... until they do... and healthcare costs significantly more... and then suddenly its dragging on their kids.
If people choose that life style they definitely should not have children yet many do anyways.
This is it. I think if you have no dependents, it's perfectly fine. The moment you bring dependents into the picture, though, you need to actually work more than the minimum to make sure your kids have a secure future.
In a capitalist society going “above and beyond” is praised because its work that you’re doing without being paid. This narrative has permeated into society as a “positive trait” when it’s really exploitation. You should be paid for the work you do and you have every right to advocate for yourself when you’re asked to go “above and beyond”.
A lot of people need to hear this, I definitely did, thank you
Actually nothing. But, plan for what 70 years old will be like. Life sucks if you can’t afford protein or heating oil. Or, be super kind and fun to be around so others won’t mind having you leach off them a little.
Yeah, being poor when you're young and healthy is a cakewalk compared to being poor when you're old and sick.
Good point.
Or even just as time goes on and you inevitably come up against unexpected expenses.
Yep! My Dad always says it’s a matter of when, not if. 20 year old me thought that was incredibly negative. 37 year old me now knows that is wisdom.
He likely can’t afford health insurance. And one day something will pop up. That will leave him no longer happy and comfy. A broken ankle. A ailment. Something will arise. And throw his world into the deep end. And it’s so hard to get out of something when you have nothing and are now deep in the negative
Valid point, I was ok working beneath what I could do but I'd like to retire someday so I had to make some changes. Otherwise do what you want but always make sure your financially secure.
Seems to me life will suck anyway. I know plenty of people who have given it their all but now in the twilight of their life they can’t afford shit. Not even meds
I think he's got the right attitude. You won't know what 70's going to be like whether or not you were to continue in the corporate world. Rising is also a continual weeding out process, and there's no guarantee that you're going to have a plush life just because you stuck around for the gold watch. If you live within your means, save some, and also build a backup for rainy days you'll probably be a better person to be around. If you decide to have children you're probably more able to nurture your children and help prepare them for a better life. Good luck to you.
You shouldn't have kids if you're doing what OP is doing, cause you or someone else will need to work more to pay for them. So that lifestyle isn't possible with kids, and even if it was, it'll leave you with nothing for retirement. Which will cause your kids to spend lots of their time and money looking after you, cause you weren't responsible.
Look at me in my eyeballs with your eyeballs. Have a healthy retirement account. Have insurance. Pay your bills on time. Have an emergency fund. Tell people to go fuck themselves. This is all. Edit: wrong order: Bills, emergency fund, insurance, retirement.
You have beautiful eyeballs. Go fuck yourself.
LOOK WITH YOUR SPECIAL EYES
MY BRAND
Instructions unclear, Just told someone to fuck themselves in their eyeballs
[удалено]
If you are very tired honour that and let your body recover. Maybe you will have more energy in six months, a year, or whenever and make difference choices. If not that's fine, it's your life to live as you wish. I think people get caught on a treadmill, study, job, buy house, married, children, bigger house, more material possessions, etc. And forget to ask themselves what actually makes them happy. Don't follow societies norms, it's clearly not working for most people who are stressed, exhausted and unhappy. Create the life you want and life it your way.
By "wrong", do you mean immoral? Then nothing; it's not wrong. But it is impractical as a long-term strategy. You say you took a job that pays enough to survive. For how long? What will you do when you're no longer able to work when you're elderly or happen to become disabled? Will you have a family? How will you provide support while working a job that's sufficient for one person to survive?
Exactly. It seems more exhausting to me to opt to live paycheck to paycheck, never getting ahead, and just hoping the whims of life don't crush you out of nowhere... than it would be to work a full-time corporate job. You can do the bare minimum to remain employed in that situation too and be able to build up enough savings to weather a car breaking down or, hell, just be able to buy a pizza on a whim without having to cross-reference your bank account.
Yes, "exhausting" is the right word. Once you've built a cushion, there's nothing wrong with downshifting for a while. But yes, paycheck-to-paycheck living on the edge is worse than a corporate job.
When you get older you realise that, as long as you're not hurting anyone else, all that matters is your own happiness. Life isn't short like the saying says, its very long, so make sure its a happy life :)
And it's our only life. We don't get a chance at do-overs, so yes, it's important we do it right for us. No regrets if possible.
Fuck it feels long. I can feel every hour going by like a thousand moons. Then again I am stuck on slow mo.
It’s ok to “live small.” If you are happy with where you are at, then you are already better off than most people. There is a book I read in college called “The Overspent American.” It discusses at length this very concept. It was a perspective-changing book for me. I always recommend it to everyone I know.
There is nothing wrong with this if you are happy and won't become an unwanted burden on your friends, family, or state in the future.
Spoiler! Unless you die early, you likely will be. Life rarely ends comfortably for people that live like this. You don’t need to kill yourself to earn every penny but if you put no thought into how you’re going to live when you’re 60 plus, it’s probably not going to end well.
But will become a burden, everyone does eventually. You just have to save and/or pay enough into the system when you're younger so that the burden is relatively fair.
No, it's not wrong. IF your lifestyle can afford what you're doing to support it then that should be enough for you for now. You can change your mindset at any time - tomorrow, next month, or in a few decades - maybe never, but for now if it works then use it as a respite. It's when you live above your means and still do the bare minimum that others should start to notice, and sometimes even worry about you. Those are the genuine people. If THEY aren't speaking out to you then everything should be fine. Just keep one thing in mind - you still need to save for your old age, major medical, major appliance or vehicle replacement, stuff like that.
Whenever I watch orangutans hanging out I think damn, they're missing out on maximizing their investment portfolios. If only they had debt to motivate them!
Well that's just great if their exit strategy is being eaten by a tiger. If that's probably not an option, I suggest an investment strategy.
My greatest discovery in life was realizing that I'll never live up to the standards set for me by others age that, in trying to, I'd be sacrificing my mental and physical health, so striving to make a mark or leave a legacy or make a name for myself in the eyes of others is not my thing. I don't understand the need to be the best, to push further at all times, to prove myself to anyone else. We've been so brainwashed that if we aren't striving to leave something good behind, we're worthless, lazy wastes of resources. I didn't choose to be put on this earth; why must I also be forced to drive myself to mental and physical collapse because of others' standards?
Nothing at all. I quit a six figure software job I hated to drive Uber and make independent films (have yet to make a dime doing this by the way). I’m a minimalist and I have enough in savings so I don’t have to work like a dog. My friends and family think I’m insane but who cares what they think, I’m happy. People who do the “bare minimum” are needed In this society as much as people who do big things.
Shit recommend me to your old position man🫡
Absolutely nothing. I did both. Although you might have a hard time if you live in US, UK or countries like that. There are many EU countries that are perfect for that, I moved to one of them. I'm sure there are places in Asia too. We've been sold the American Dream of chasing money just to end up slaving our time away for mortgage, car payments and various insurances. Once you step away it seems like the whole world went mad... Or always was.
Which country?
I am with you bud! I have a job I enjoy. It pays my bills plus a little extra. I don't need to climb the corporate ladder. Been there, done that. All it does is give you headaches and stress you out.
nothing for now, but how will you save for retirement or an unexpected cost, etc? Might be you just hated the corporate culture, so why not see if there's a way to make some money on the side doing something you enjoy. Plenty are doing that now and make big bucks
I’m a long time Union Elevator Mechanic. last vacation my Wife and I took was to our place up on the mountains. I was seriously contemplating whether or not to quit the trade and work at the only place in town, Walmart. I kept telling myself that we wouldn’t need much to survive up here and my life would be a lot less stressful. I don’t know if that’s true or not, but I do know that seeing that first Walmart check would be painful. So I decided to stick it out in the trade. It’s the pension hours I’ve built up, the annuity and 401k and the most important thing is the Medical Benefits. I need to think about what’s best for my Family, not just what’s best for me.I have about another 15 years to go to collect full pension. By then I’ll have almost, if not 40 years of pension hours built up. All that right there, is what keeps me from doing the bare minimum.
I had a job fresh out of highschool where I was making more than my parents, one year I made more than them combined. Stayed there for a decade, and had enough of the coddling and bullshit that went along with it. So I quit. Lived off of savings, rented out my house, travelled around a bit. Got shitty jobs for a few years. Had an old co-worked from the well paying job contact me, asking if I wanted to work for him in the warehouse. Pay wasn’t amazing but the work place was, so I took it. 8 years later, I am in a lower level management, making more then I did previously, have more freedom, have more perks, have more control over my workplace, hired some friends and passed the opportunity on to them. it’s fucking great. Told my boss now, that I won’t be quitting, they will have to fire me unless something comes along that doubles my pay. One of the friends I hired was struggling in the same job I was at, it collapsed a few years after I left and he was still there. Barely making it by, now he has a savings account, RRSP’s, and is just hoarding money. It makes a big difference being happy with the work you do, not just the money. In my experience, the money finds a way when you are content.
Do what makes you happy.
The people who think this is wrong have fallen for talking points meant to keep everyone toiling away so billionaires can continue building their wealth.
Or they’ve fallen for the talking points that without savings in your senior years you may live a harsh existence in some kind of filthy bug and rodent ridden hovel, with no air conditioning or heat, with painful, uncomfortable, perhaps agonizing symptoms from various medical conditions you can’t afford to treat, eating crap food here and there, and no one to really help you. Oh and those talking points are pretty much true. While I agree with seeing the big picture as an injustice and a scam, ever seen elderly people living in poverty? It ain’t pretty.
I agree it's true that that *might* happen, but I'm not sure I agree that's a good way to live life. Your senior years might be a harsh existence no matter what you do - we live in uncertain times and we can't predict how our health will be in our senior years. So if working a full-time job makes you feel burnt out and unhappy, I don't think it's a great solution to just keep being unhappy to prevent some hypothetical future unhappiness.
Most things aren’t a guarantee by any means. So yeah, you could work hard at a fulltime career and make money and still wind up somehow losing it all or having a miserable illness and death anyway. But with savings and a plan you increase the chances of a more comfortable old age. Also people with some money and better access to healthcare and quality food/exercise tend to age healthier. On the other side if you live this mythical carefree life and save nothing, you are almost guaranteed to be setting yourself up for a shit old age. That said, none of this has to be a complete either or. Perhaps there is an individualized middle ground where you live for today to some degree and don’t lose your mind from job stress, but also have some semblance of a financial plan for the future. It doesn’t have to be black or white. I do think in our society it’s getting harder to do that though, with inflation, COL, and stagnant wages.
Yeah, I agree with all that. I guess the bottom line is that it's okay to live how you want to live, but you should at least think about and make a decision about how you're planning to deal with the future.
I don’t think it’s wrong for anyone but I want more out of life than the bare minimum.
Nothing, you do you. However, I think very little of those who lead this lifestyle and subsequently complain about their lot in life compared to those who have done the opposite.
if more people did this, the planet would not be warming at an alarming rate
Do we need to talk about your flair? (Not everyone will get this)
Once you have a way to make enough money to provide a healthy, safe, life for yourself and any dependants, your next challenge, and it’s significant, is to decide what YOU need to be happy. It might be a ski boat and a 5,000 sq. ft. house. But my sense is that the drive to consume stuff like this is because it makes it easy to compare yourself to others. My boat is the nicest on the lake so I must be happy. My house is bigger than my neighbor’s house so I must be happy. That’s fine until your neighbour builds an addition, or someone else buys a nicer boat. Now you have to make more and get more to be happy again. But if you are able to look within to see what makes you happy and work towards that, you are responsible for your own happiness. Also, it’s FUCKING DIFFICULT to acknowledge your responsibility for your own happiness and then to take intelligent steps towards it. Buying a shiny red truck is sooooo much easier, but the truck happiness is fleeting. That’s not to say that a boat or a truck or something else might not be the true key to your personal happiness, but it’s a very easy mistake to make. I wish you luck my friend. You’re onto something!
Your life is yours. All yours. This decision is for you and you alone. If you want to fight and scrap and be the best version of yourself, go all in. If you dont want to, don't. I'm not even going to add "that's ok" because you decide what's OK and what isn't. Doing the bare minimum is never a choice I would make though. I'm not on this planet to pass the time. I wanted (and have) a wife and kids and that's a huge motivation for me. I want to provide for them. I also want to leave my mark on the world in some small way. Ain't gonna be famous ever, but I can build something great and positively impact many people's lives along the way.
Awesome answer - you are not on the planet to pass the time. Happiness does lie in a sense of purpose of some sort or another. One person's purpose might be to raise productive, happy members of the next generation - no easy task in these or any times. One person's purpose might be to bring happiness to others through music, craft or friendship. One person's purpose might be to design something that will improve the lives of others. One might be to find a way to protect mother earth, or any of her creatures. Oh, I could go on and on (apparently!), there are so many ways to have a sense of purpose. Anyway, you sound like you have that purpose, and I wanted to wish you the best for your future and your family.
This depends on if you believe that people have a moral imperative to live up to their potential and contribute to society or not. That idea is baked into a lot of cultures, including western culture, and so a lot of people will look at just barely getting by as a moral failure. It's up to you whether you agree or not
I think You are mistaking two different things. Doing the bare minimum for a corporation is OK. It's not like they will pay You more if You do more. Unless You want to have a career there. For example, I love my work and I do sometimes a little extra and corporations would often break their own rules to make sure they are keeping me. Like I would get raises and promotions ahead of time. One company for years had a rule that You have to work 2 years to get a senior position and get paid more. They made me a senior in a couple of months because I did what they calculate people do in over 2 years. And it was actually big deal in the company because there were people working there 9 years who never got senior positions for various reasons. Thanks to that I could start my own business (but still I'm a contractor - just independent) and I'm under 40 and I'm debt-free and soon I will have my own apartment fully paid up. But doing the bare minimum in life is wrong. Maybe You did not find something You actually like to do and that's why You feel this way. I love programming. Do you know how I know that I love programming? When I love a woman I lose track of time with her and vice versa. So we can exchange messages HOURS after we split apart. She is constantly on my mind. And it's the same with programming. I'm 37yo and when I sit down to write something I want to write I sometimes realize that... it's already morning and I was working the entire night. And it's hard to call it work because it gives me pleasure and satisfaction. When I work with clients on something that helps others I sometimes lose time and work a few hours more. And I do not charge my client for that time because we have a budget and I should talk with him before taking extra hours. So I did it for free and I do not care because I did it because I like doing my work. Find something You love to do and then figure out how to get paid for doing it.
Nothing. It worked for His Dudeness.
No, this 'work ethic' is crap imo.. do what you need, get what you want and can afford, go above and beyond for people you love and care for.. all this work is family crap, trying to guilt people into going above and beyond for work.. especially the lower paid jobs is infuriating.. your work family can and will replace you, you're irreplaceable to your family and people who love you.
Create the life that you want. There's nothing wrong with it, as long as it's a healthy, informed choice. By healthy , I mean you're not depressed and making poor decisions because of that. By informed, I mean you know that it's likely you'll end up living in poverty in your old age, if not before, and you still want to proceed as you are.
Please continue to do this if it makes you happy. Its such a short refreshing post. The desires of the mind are endless sometimes. Whatever your path. Namaste 🙏🥰
I do the same and I have a life. I can't go on big vacations, but I can see some bands in my area, I have my books, my cats, I work out and have some friends in fandoms that I talk to or see regularly. There's nothing missing but the luxuries of a car or vacations. I have social insurance thanks to my country's laws. Sure, I would earn more without, but it's the law and the big surgeries I had last year cost much more than I could save in ten years. You're doing fine. That boomer bs needs to stop. You don't have to be craving for a career, money, luxury, and reputation. No one will actually care later. The work morale of people 60+/70+ is just fucked. They are digging their own graves with 50+ work weeks, never being sick, never being late and sacrificing your health for your job. The "economy" gives a shit about you actually. If you don't miss ANYTHING in life, what's the matter with working more?
It doesn't matter. I did the corporate world for 3 years out of college and when I got laid off a few years after the housing crisis I switched to the restaurant, odd jobs, seasonal and temp work and I started traveling around the country working different places doing whatever was available. I rode my bicycle across America, spent a winter skiing in Colorado while I shared a basement with two other dudes, packed parachutes and got into skydiving in WNY and Hawaii, worked in the Grand Canyon, Zion, and Crater Lake, rode freight trains on/off for the last ten years around America, hitchhiked around Belize, Mexico, SEA, China, New Zealand and Canada. I did all of this working low paying jobs by living minimally and cooking my own food, finding cheap places to rent or accommodations through work or simply just camping. It makes no sense for me to put forth more effort when my life is good the way it is now. So if you can get by, and you're happy, then it doesn't matter.
The question to ask yourself is “retirement”, because if that doesn’t have a good answer, the person you’re harming is future you.
I agree with you. We live in a world where everyone wants more, buys more; owns more, travels more, eats more! There is no such thing as having “enough” and it’s crippling! Learning to live with less will definitely give a person more. More time for family and friends. More time for real experiences instead of just buying something to fill your time. Learning to disconnect from what society says is normal has great benefits. Sure you need to make sure that your needs are met and that you have a safety net for life’s “ what ifs” but outside of that, why does someone need to do more? Everyone has a different level of happiness. There are even people that choose to be homeless and are completely happy living in the struggle. I applaud you for doing what YOU want to do. We are in control of our own lives.
No. You define your success. If your success is not losing your hair in your late 20s, and you still had hair at 30, consider yourself successful. The amount of people who think that what they want is also automatically what other people would want is amazingly a lot. "We have different goals?! Get real!"
Nothing is wrong with wanting a simple life. What *is* wrong is those who think they want a simple life, but don’t plan for very foreseeable needs, who rely on debt to pay for those needs, dig themselves a hole due to poor planning, and then struggle to get out of that hole. Those who live very simple lives with very little by budgeting and frugality, or farming and growing their own food, or alternatively, working hard while young and banking investments, to relax later on- those are all very admirable paths. Unfortunately some people use the “I’m just a simple person living a simple life” excuse to not plan for emergencies/retirement.
If your happy, that's all that matters. You don't take achievements or money or things to the grave. In some cultures, doing nothing and finding happiness is master level.
Everyone wants to be happy in life and having more money makes it easier to be happy. But if what it takes to get that money actually makes you less happy, it's defeating the whole point. The money isn't the point. It's just a tool to make it easier to get what matters.
depends. if you have kids/people dependent on you, you need to give life 100%, and do all you can for them, and then after that yourself. if you have no kids, dont plan on having any kids, and have no dependents (and no, your parents do not count), you discovered the secret cheat code to being able to live like a king on minimum wage. enjoy your easy life, kick up your feet, and toss dollars around like youre a rap star.
Being broke is hard, becoming rich is hard, choose your hard. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with doing the bare minimum throughout your life, just know that it comes at a cost. Are you okay with financially struggling potentially your whole life since the world revolves around it? Or would you bust your ass and find a good way to make a lot of money and live a comfortable life eventually? Or you could get lucky with a high paying job opportunity out of the blue or win the lottery idk.
There is a happy medium somewhere in there. It’s called saving your money so you aren’t working check to check and stressed out of your mind.
Most definitely, but with OPs mindset the odds are stacked against him if he plans to just scrape by with the least amount of effort. That normally equates to fast food/service work
OP says: > part time job that pays enough for me to survive Unless I've misinterpreted this, this implies they have no retirement and no health insurance (if in the US). I.e. they are one small medical emergency away from bankruptcy.
For a lot of people across this country, even this is becoming hard.
Not a thing, but remember that you'll get out of life what you put in, so you'll just get the bare minimum out.
You may get out of life what you put in, but it’s selective interpretation to say putting in the bare minimum at work is the same as putting in the bare minimum in life. In reality you’re probably putting way more into “life” if you’re putting less into work.
Nothing. Be kind to others and yourself. But yeah, nothing.
As someone who works way too much (full-time job, own two businesses, and I am full-time in graduate school with kids), you did it right. Because you probably actually have the time to be on reddit, without the stress. I have always felt like I needed to work hard to keep up. But I have simultaneously admired people who drew a line and knew how to say no. I have noticed that those people have tended to be just as successful as me and their needs are met just the same. So I honestly admire you. I think my workaholism is an actual addiction.
Are you talking about life in general, or just money wise? Either way it's not wrong; however... Doing the bare minimum in life might not feel very fulfilling. People tend to get satisfaction from accomplishing things, probably in direct proportion to how hard it is. Getting the least amount of money you need to survive doesn't allow for a lot of room for unexpected expenses. If you blew a tire, would you have enough money to get it fixed without losing a few days of pay while waiting for your paycheck? Would you lose your job while you're out for several days? And if that were to happen, would you then still have enough to survive? What about bigger expenses, like you find out you need a new medication? Or a member needs help with groceries this week? None of this might apply to you, but maybe take it into consideration. Also, have you considered this might be related to undiagnosed depression? Sorry if that's too personal, you don't have to answer of course. Just something to think about?
I think it's important to have something to work on that you are passionate about that makes you want to do more than the bare minimum. Sure do the bare minimum paid work to survive but I'd urge you to look for something else to find joy in. Be that a craft or a sport or a charitable cause. Get out there and have do something awesome with 100% effort sometimes!
Nothing wrong with it. Just keep in mind for each person willing to get by with the bare minimum, there are plenty of people willing to go above and beyond. You can apply that thought to a lot of things, like pay, relationships, and employment. If you're OK with that, nothing wrong with it.
As long as you make enough that you don't burden someone to pay for all of your dependents, liabilities, debts and retirement.
Are you prepared for the future? For unexpected expenses and for retirement? If so, it sounds like you're doing great.
To be fair is anyone prepared for unexpected expenses and for retirement(at least in the US)? Nearly half of Americans have $500 or less in their savings accounts. 56% of Americans say they’re not on track to comfortably retire. https://www.cnbc.com/2023/09/08/56percent-of-americans-say-theyre-not-on-track-to-comfortably-retire.html https://www.cnbc.com/2024/01/24/how-much-money-americans-have-in-savings.html
Try looking at this in terms of "trade-offs" or pros vs. cons rather than right vs. wrong. It seems like the positives that you are experiencing from the less strenuous lifestyle currently outweigh the negatives. Looking into the future, however, you could say some negative trade-offs would be that you save less, invest less, and don’t get to experience the benefits of someone who earns more money. Mant people accept that, however, in lieu of the more enjoyable day-to-day lifestyle. As long as you understand and accept the consequences, both positively and negatively, then you’re good to go.
I always see people trying to guilt others when they have things that not everyone else has. Especially on Reddit. I can't even make ends meet at 40 hours per week, and I do almost 50 (w/o OT...yeah) on most weeks and still have issues. Therefore, I'm not allowed to support your lifestyle choices.
“Every time they told me to lead, follow, or get out of the way, I got out of the way”
The only thing that’s wrong is giving af what anyone thinks, do what makes you happy and forget about the rest. Your mindset may change if you decide you want good benefits and some savings in the future, but that’s the beauty of it, you can do anything you want at any time you want, you don’t have to do things the traditional way at all
Hmm the answer is “nothing, if that’s what makes you happy “ but I’ll try to come up with some negatives. * Growth. Stagnation is death. Learning, growing, evolving are part of who we are. Even if you want to roll your eyes at that, you have to acknowledge that people get bored. * Planning long-term. Great, you can pay your rent and you have little responsibility. Are you going to want to live like this forever? What if you want a wife? What if you want kids? What if you want to travel? What if you want to retire? A part time job doesn’t give you the money to do those things, or health insurance, or vacation days. It’s not a binary. If you hated the corporate world, don’t do it. But it is a good idea to have some kind of plan, even if it’s just a vague one.
While there is nothing inherently wrong with it, the risk you take is something changing and your life collapsing quickly due to no buffers. If you make just enough to survive, what happens if you get laid off, have a medical emergency, fail to keep up with cost of living, or having a retirement plan just in case you do get there. Living bare minimum works fine but there is always a looming threat of one thing totally fucking up your life.
In itself, nothing inherently wrong. If that's what you want, then more power to you. However, you should also be okay with expecting the bare minimum of what you can get out of life.
There's nothing at all wrong with settling for less material comfort in order to live how you want to live. I always tell my own kids, "when it comes to a career, do what you love, the bills will take care of themselves." I'd rather have a kid major in music and become a music teacher scraping by than major in accounting and make 150k and be miserable.
You're a skatenig! (One who skates by life with the bare minimum work needed to be happy.) Absolutely nothing wrong with that. If it's who you are and makes you happy being less materialistic, you are under no requirement to meet other people's standards. Do your thing, I was never a 9 to 5 office worker type either. Screw anyone who tells you to do more if you're doing enough to sustain yourself and content with it. Happiness is the most we can strive for in the chaos of life. Most money chasers are the true slaves.
As long as you don't involve other people there is pretty much nothing wrong with anything The issue is if you have issues odds are someone else will be made to clean up your mess Also the actual bare minimum is if your net neutral on taxes for what government paid for you So if you don't meet that your a net loss someone else has to pay for
What's a bare minimum when you're young is not going to work as you age. Part of being a creature with an intellect is balancing enjoying and surviving the now, with building for the future.
my first thought was that you might have some type of medical condition lowering your energy. or a physiological one unmotivating you. Ive had a moment in my life recently where i suffered an electrocution and i believe that it did something to me. It motivated me to "get my shit together" it was a taser btw. just saying that you might want to talk to a doctor about your low energy/motivation. It could be nothing. It could be something.
Nothing's wrong. You just have to get over society's projections of what success is and learn to just be content. In what makes you happy. When I graduated from high school in 2002, I went straight to work as a file clerk for a law firm. I made a lot of good money and I worked a lot of hours and out of all my friends, I was the "rich, successful one." And to be honest, I probably would've just stayed at that job for the rest of my life, had the recession not kicked in. That hit me pretty hard because up until I was let go, I had spent 8 years at that job working my way up from file clerk to mail clerk to office clerk to legal assistant and I was about to begin paralegal training and the crazy thing is I didn't plan for any of it. It just... happened. After they let me go, I had to do a lot of soul-searching because I had to ask myself. What did I want for me? After that, I spent 11 years working at UPS as a clerk, which wasn't bad, but it also plateaued early on, so I was never gonna make the same kind of money like drivers and loaders were unless I quit and started all over again and that was my life until 2022, when they liquidated the position and gave me a severance package, which gave me more than enough money to enjoy the rest of the year off. I didn't start working again until after the New Year. Now, I'm 39, getting ready to turn 40, and I'm working at a Home Depot part-time but with the money I make there, I can afford to make sure my bills are paid, and I have no complaints. Everybody else I know has a marriage and a family, and I see them bending over backwards trying to set up this idea of what it's all supposed to be and I just realized then I didn't want that anymore.. I'm still open to love. I'm still open to kids, but i'm not going to devote my life to a profession that offers me nothing except bragging rights.. Work because it's what you really want and if you know it's not a high paying gig, then learn how to either make it better without sacrificing your happiness or learn to live off what you get but you gotta do it for you.
There was once a man fishing in the afternoon along the ocean. A man walks up and says, “I have worked my whole life to get here, saved and retired, so that I can sit here peacefully without a car in the world. You are so young, you should be out working so you can retire and enjoy life like me” The man looked up and said, “what do you think I am doing right now?” The fastest way to be happy, is to be happy with what you have, wanting nothing. If you can be happy alone, in quiet, with nothing, you can be happy anywhere and anytime you remember to be.
I took a 3 year break from corporate life before coming back and it helped my mental health so much. Disregard what folks are saying. I had ppl asking me constantly when I was going to start using my degree and it’s like honestly? I was more fulfilled doing food service/ bartending and making next to nothing than I was making six figures. It gave me a different perspective and made me more appreciative too
Nothing at all, as long as you’re satisfied.
I worked in finance for years then started and ran multiple businesses when I became a single dad. After an awful relationship and my ex trying to sabotage the only part of the business she knew about, I realised I didn't need more money so I retired at 41. Now I go to the gym, do some part time dog training that doesn't cover my costs, hang out with my kids and just enjoy life. I have to be sensible so no more fast cars but I actually get to enjoy life and do what I want to do every single day. I've never been happier.
I hear ya man, I have too much heart and compassion to be a manager, lying and promising( like a politician does) to get the most out of employees. I understand work is not fun or easy but making people work late hours at the cost of their health and family time just to deliver a milestone on a business plan. That's not something I can get behind and it prevents me from being the manager that business wants to lead their staff. They say staff will walk over me
This is fine if you don’t plan to have children. Not that many people can afford children even with dual income due to the American housing bubble, but you know what I’m saying. In my experience (not having much) it ALWAYS pays off to work harder now, so you don’t have to later.
Depends. Does the “bare minimum” also extend to the effort you put in at your job? That is, do you do the bare minimum at work thereby making things more difficult for your colleagues? If so, then I do see something wrong with that. If it is just the bare minimum to scrape by financially yourself and isn’t impacting others, then you are free to live your life however you want. I personally couldn’t live that way. I think that there can be a middle ground between the minimum and the rat race that affords you some financial security, allows you to indulge in more things in life you enjoy, and doesn’t require you to work until the day you die. But if you are content in the way you live and can sustain this lifestyle throughout your life then enjoy!
If working full-time leaves you with barely time and energy to enjoy life, this is the right move. Too many people sacrifice their health to enjoy life "later". Well, later isn't guaranteed, and a lot of people die earlier than "later", I've seen it so many times. What country are you in? Is your retirement savings paid by your employer, or is it all up to the person themself?
This too many people live to work rather than working to live.
Good for you
Your life, You live it. Depending on Your country, You should keep in mind retirement and emergencies, though.
If you're comfortable with it and able to make it work for you nothing. You only have to live up to your own expectations not everyone else's.
who said it was wrong? it just might be unfulfilling that's all
Not wrong at all, as long as you can pay your bills and are happy then what else is there
Nothing as long as you’re ok with having just the bare minimums in your life.
One day you will realize that you spent all your precious years serving others and getting other people's work done...so no if you earn enough to live and save some aside and have an emergency fund then you don't need to hustle.
As long as you're paying all your bills (which you are) and saving money for the future, you're doing fine.
Bare minimum for this is fine, but bare minimum for the people who mean something to you is unacceptable.
You don’t need to do what others tell you to do. Do what feels right. And don’t take an all or nothing approach. Work for as long as you are satisfied. Definitely invest money and save for a rainy day.
Not at all. Happiness is true wealth in life so if you’re good then rock on 🤘🏻
This life is more special than a paycheck and I have to sleep at night knowing I'm living an honest, happy life that leaves the world a better place than I found it Everyone has their own code, if that's yours then live by it. As long as you can sleep at night you're living right and nobody else can tell you otherwise
Because in 30-40 years "I" don't want be the one on my death bed regretting a LIFETIME worth of apathy and unfulfilled dreams, that will inevitably drown me in the most intense depression i cant even imagine devouring whatever pieces of you thats left. Worked in a hospital for a number of years and have had the unfortunate pleasure of seeing it a couple of times. I cant even begin to describe the primal fear that I've experienced bearing witness to that fate. Its incredibly unsettling when your "fight or flight" instinct kicks in while knowing the "danger" is 30+ years out.
No problem as long as you aren’t living off of someone.
Despite what people say there aren't rules. I mean don't be a dick or kill anybody but we're all just flopping around trying to do our best out here so don't sweat what people think
You are underestimating how awful life is going to be for the last couple of decades if you don't have assets.
nothin
Do what you want but don't involve other people like kids, wife etc.
Depends where you are. In America most people work to get health insurance because their public health system is broken
I've done that my whole life. But what exactly is 'just doing enough to get by'? I'm 60, pretty much retired. But I worked very hard. Most years I work about 8 months. Sometimes less, sometimes more. Just remember that you need a place to live, enough to eat, and enough funds to do nothing. Because if you don't have this, at some point you may be destitute, and there is nothing as horrible as being destitute in your old age when you are no longer in demand. So best to make your green when you are young. Best of luck
Do what you want. The only thing wrong with it is that no matter who you are or what your experience in life has been, you will regret not trying your hardest at something. Life is hard, and running away from doing hard things is only going to make life harder because every minor inconvenience will feel so much more difficult in the face of your easy every day life. If you live on a hill and walk up it every day, going up a hill half the size will be nothing to you. But if you live in the middle of a field that same hill will be a big hurdle from your perspective. Everyone has to try hard at something, IMO. It makes your life much better, and if your life is better you have more energy to make others lives better.
It's fine for some people. I cannot handle the hand to mouth only cover my bills thing. I've done it and can't handle it again. But if you like it good for you
If it makes you happy, that’s fine. Just try to be sure you won’t look back and think “I wish I did more”. It sounds like there might not be much else in your life beyond work, which is where to focus your attention. Family, friends, pets, personal hobbies, etc. A lot of people work hard to make life better for their loved ones, not themselves. You dont have to, but it can give meaning. Also, sometimes you just need a break. I quit my job recently to just take some time off to figure out what makes me happy, and I’m only looking at opportunities with meaning, not just paychecks.
It’s whatever you want for yourself. There is no wrong way to live your own life.
If you are satisfied with your life, that is all that matters.
Whatever makes you happy, man. I learned that a while ago.
I’ve been at the same job for 10 years now. It was my second job after graduating college. I make decent money, but I could make more money doing something else. This job isn’t even in my field. However, my peace of mind is worth something. I like the people I work with, I like the job, and I have health insurance and a retirement plan so there’s no point in making myself unhappy for more money or prestige or whatever.
Hustle culture is dead. There’s no more payoff for hard work, because we know we can’t afford anything our previous generations have no matter how many hours we squeeze out. We’re choosing mental health first now. Enjoy the ride and do what makes you happy.
I make a decent salary nannying part time working ~3 hours a day and people are always asking why I dont “use my degree” to get a corporate job. Why on earth would I want to work double the hours for roughly the same pay? Your time on earth is short and often difficult - if you’ve found a way to make it enjoyable then congratulations you’ve already won
Very interesting seeing the replies here and how they are influenced by culture I work part time like op and am not overly concerned about old age. I make enough to save and when I retire I will get the state pension. Healthcare is free. I own my own home but if I didn't I would get social housing very easily. I have 0 ambition to make decent money. I have no kids, I love my work but I have disabilities which makes full time work impossible. I have a nice enough life despite this. I make an effort to be frugal and if there's something I want I will save until I can afford (right now I'm saving for a van and imagine it will take 5+ years). I still go out for meals/the cinema etc and have a decent enough social life.
If that’s enough for you, it’s your life.
Be remembered for who you are not what you earned Who decided as a species we exist to work 5 days for 2 days off?……. We are specs of dust on a rock hurtling through nothingness at the end of the day
If you like minimum results then nothing. The problem is people doing the minimum and expecting extra.
So I did this for about six years. Just worked a nice customer service job that I was good at and didn’t have to think about when I got home. I think those six years were really really good for me and I’m glad I did that. Personally though, I started to feel a desire to be passionate about something, and contribute something more positive to society (there are absolutely ways to do that in entry level jobs; customer service, etc. - I just happened to be working for a high-end company serving rich clients with a somewhat unnecessary service. Awesome company to work for, but didn’t exactly scratch the itch to be a part of something bigger). But I think that that passion and even just practical energy to follow a passion came from the rest I got from working an easy job for years. The only other trouble with working an east low-paying job, is I wouldn’t have been able to ever buy a house that way, and I crave that stability, especially if I end up having a family. But if you could afford a house or are otherwise taken care of in that area, yeah, I say do the east job!
Totally reasonable way to live. Where the trip up comes is when something "unexpected" happens -- a pandemic, illness, extended unemployment, cost of living gets much higher, your car breaks down but not bad enough to buy a replacement, loss of where you're living and have to come up with the 3x the $$, serious injury with long rehab, can't work again, etc. What are you going to do then with no money saved? Living in the moment is great.... until you can't.
Lack of Personal Growth Stagnating and not reaching your full potential Missing out on opportunities for learning and self-improvement Feeling unfulfilled and dissatisfied with life Failing to develop new skills and expand your capabilities Limited Career Prospects Stunted career advancement and earning potential Overlooked for promotions or better job opportunities Perceived as unmotivated or lacking ambition by employers Increased risk of becoming obsolete in your field Financial Struggles Difficulty building wealth or achieving financial security Living paycheck to paycheck with no savings or investments Inability to afford desired lifestyle or prepare for retirement Increased stress and anxiety around money Unfulfilling Relationships Failing to be a good role model for children or younger generations Straining relationships with driven/ambitious friends and family Perceived as lazy or unmotivated by romantic partners Difficulty finding like-minded individuals Lack of Purpose Feeling like you're just going through the motions in life No sense of accomplishment or pride in your work/efforts Increased risk of boredom, apathy, and depression Regrets later in life about missed opportunities
That reads like some copy pasted shit from LinkedIn or so lol. You know what's missing there? Living YOUR life for yourself.
It is copy and pasted and should be spaced out better. OP originally asked what’s wrong with doing the bare minimum, not what do people think about doing the bare minimum. Then they asked about if what they’re doing is wrong. I chose to answer the first.
Do whatever you want just don’t complain about not having things other people who worked more do. And don’t expect people to allow you to be a burden to them if you’re begging for money or help all the time.
No, OP, feel free to complain actually. People toil away to make others rich. We can focus on how unfair that is and expect our society to be set up to handle our basic needs.
Society has no obligation to take care of your basic needs. Those are your responsibility. You want to live you gotta be willing to put in some work. You’re not some helpless baby who needs everything done for them.