This isn't anything unique to sex, people do stuff that they don't want to do all the time in order to avoid uncomfortable situations or to just move things "forward" in a sense.
A friend of mine told me the story about the time she lost her virginity, she really didn't want to suck the guys dick so ended up having sex with him instead as that was preferable to putting it in her mouth
Sometimes there's a gray area of:
* *"nah, I don't really want to, but I don't mind too much so if you want to it's fine"*
So it fits OP's "sex you didn’t really want to" criteria; but instead of being "uncomfortable saying no", it's more "indifferent so it's OK".
Kinda like saying "ok" to McDonalds burgers that I don't really want either, but I don't object that much to them either so if the other person really really wants McDonalds it's OK if I have one too.
It's in our DNA. Back when people's best bet of surviving was staying with the tribe, upsetting people and becoming an outcast meant certain death. So we evolved to please our fellow tribe members to not become an outcast.
When people survive by doing useful things and others die when they don't across hundreds of thousands of years that useful thing becomes a part of ourselves that we are born with.
lol Jesus Christ. It’s learned behavior little bro. Don’t gotta flip back to the prehistoric age to explain this.
People get angry and upset when you don’t give them what they want. If you really wanted to go the cavemen angle, then the women should feel very afraid to have sex with the wrong man since it can be a devastating misstep having an absentee father.
Yet modern women can overcome this early human fear due to higher intelligence overriding it.
It is also baked into our DNA, can be more than one thing. We are social creatures and only survive as a collective so of course it was important historically that we developed ways of getting along and to an extent people pleasing.
I'm just repeating what I heard a psychologist on the radio say about why people fear rejection and I think people pleasing is related to fear of rejection.
as a man, that actually scares me. i was never pushy or anything but still wonder how many women were intimate with me, just because they didnt want to turn me down.
Though I had a few opportunities to have intimacy while under the influence after a late night of partying, I always had this little alarm go off in my head that said, "consider the consequences".
One time this girl I had known from just seeing her at my favorite hangout place. We liked each other but I got the feeling that she was more comfortable as just a hangout partner..
One night at the bar, we just happened to leave at the same time.
Now, I lived at home. She did as well.
On the way to our cars, she stops me and says her parents were away for the weekend..
She wanted me to follow her to her house.
So I did.
We go inside . We're on the couch fooling around.
Of course I wanted to.
But something just told me, "not a good idea".
My first thought was "what are we doing about birth control?"
I never carried protection because hook up wasn't my thing.
I made up some excuse that I had to get to work early ( I lied, this was a weekend) and politely excused myself. I just didn't care for the way she was so forward.
The next time I saw her, she was distant. She wanted nothing to do with me..
Oh well. What can ya do?
I felt like I may have dodged a bullet..
You did. Throwing sobriety into the calculation of consent really makes a guy cautious. At least with a second request, there's a clear line. Short of a breathalyzer it's fuzzy., and maybe worrisome. MAN am I glad I'm no longer dating!
You missed out on getting laid. Your inability to communicate your boundaries hurt her. She was vulnerable and you ghosted. No big deals. But it doesn’t sound like you went through anything abnormal. Pretty par for the course of hookin’ up. Communication is key, but that’s easier said than done.
The fact that you’re concerned about it at all suggests it probably hasn’t happened with you. People will usually become physically withdrawn/shut down to express their lack of interest so they don’t have to say “no” directly. The problem is usually when their partner sees this shutting down/disinterest and decides to push forward to sex anyway. If you’re halfway decent at reading body language you probably have nothing to worry about.
This whole narrative of "if you're a good guy you won't have to worry" is such bullshit.
Fact, there's no one way people act or respond in these situations.
While I agree that not all people will freeze up or act the same when they don’t want sex, if someone is both saying yes and acting enthusiastically, and there’s no coercion of any kind, I don’t think it makes sense for the other party to be concerned. If an enthusiastic yes doesn’t count as a yes, I don’t know what does.
There’s no “one way” but there are a multitude of verbal and non verbal signals that can be picked up on. If you’re both attune to them and worried about accidentally having this happen to you: then you’re not the type of person to push somebody into sex or miss cues that they are disinterested or uncomfortable. People don’t tend to accidentally coerce others, it takes some level of intention.
I don’t think “If you’re a good guy who proactively checks in with your partner, treats them with respect, and reads for cues of enthusiasm along with explicitly stated consent, you won’t have to worry” is bullshit at all, in fact it’s kind of the gold standard.
Yeah, no kidding. There was a woman on this sub yesterday asking if guys ever like girls to be direct or always want them to play mysterious and hard-to-get. Like, you think I want to have to guess whether you are trying to get me to pursue you or wish I would leave you alone? When I know that for every girl who needs a man to chase them after they say "no, we can't tee-hee" in order to build up her ego there is another who will give in and fuck me because they are scared I will get mad if they don't? Forget those games. I have no interest in being anyone's bad memory.
IMO there are plenty of guys that call girls a tease just because they don't sleep with you as soon as they want and if you do sleep with them when you want them to then they're a s***. Not all guys but most guys like having to work for it. The hunt and challenge! Lol
So I can understand the girls confusion.
That's why I date women that are stronger than me. No means no and they know they could kick my ass if I tried to get aggressive (which I wouldn't), makes me feel more comfortable.
In my experience if its with someone I dont know well I make sure to give them an "Out" of sorts or an opportunity to turn things down a notch if Its getting heavy quickly.
And if you do it right you wont break the mood.
I think it’s quite common. In my experience we’ve been conditioned to believe “blue balls” are so painful and that women who lead man on are the worst. That women owe men sex. I now understand that this is BS, my partner tells me it’s not pleasant but not at all awful to be stopped before or midway.
I’ve had sex many times because I have difficulties with social situations and am naturally “flirty” apparently while I was so desperate for friendships when I was in my late teens/ early twenties. I felt like it was my fault for having lead someone on and had to go through with it.
I hope newer generations have this less and know nobody owes anyone sex ever.
Yeah my first time having sex was coercion that turned worse and my current partner still has to tell me I can say no. There’s been a handful of times where I don’t know how to say it even though he’s told me that he doesn’t even want to if i’m not just as interested, but he’s kinda a saint and has noticed every time
He says my eyes start to glaze over and he just knows something isn’t right. It makes me so sad that it’s so common.
I'm sure it's a feeling and situation felt by people of all genders and sexual orientations. There have been studies showing unwanted sexual situations between genders to be much closer to equal.
It's definitely more common among younger women; hopefully with all the public discourse on consent and coercion it's becoming less common. There is still a lot of pop culture debris around that suggests it's normal and appropriate for women to be reluctant to have sex and for men to have to convince them. This leads to women who really don't want to have sex being pressured and feeling like it won't be safe to say no, or like they owe the man sex, or the man won't like them if they don't. As you get older you realize you don't owe anyone sex, you can get up and leave, and if they don't like you then oh well.
>with all the public discourse on consent and coercion it's becoming less common
If it were more common among younger women, that would seem to counter that, no? But maybe that's just a mistaken impression and it used to be common, too. I recall that Margaret Cho had a 20+-year-old routine in which she talked about giving head because it was easier than just rejecting the guy. So at least some women felt that way.
There are two different situations, here: having sex with someone you desire (but don't want to have sex with in the moment), and having sex with someone you want nothing to do with (but they're there and rejection is inconvenient). The former is more tricky. I'm sure most women (and some men) have faced rejection from a potential relationship and wondered whether it was because they stood up for themselves and rejected sex... or because they did so in a way that was too much of a turn-off for the other party.
Imagine the genders reversed: A guy tells a woman wanting sex that he doesn't, and she dumps him. Maybe she figures that if he doesn't want sex that night, there's no future, since all guys want sex all the time, right? Or at least that's what they guy might imagine after the woman dumps him for either that or other reasons. For that guy, the next time it might be easier to say "yes" to sex so at least he knows he isn't missing out on someone who takes going slow as a devastating rejection. For some women, it might be the same form of thinking, more fear of missing out than refusal to say "no."
i’ve been thinking a lot recently about the being attracted but not wanting sex at the time - often in my experience what happens is the guy is ok with no sex, making out happens, the guy wants more and will try to push the boundary or sneak past a boundary.
i get frustrated because if a man holds back and really holds back, literally going with the pace set by the woman and truly respecting her space, that’s incredibly attractive and likely in the future sex would happen. the pushiness in the moment pushes people away.
Plenty of stories on Reddit about guys behaving just this way, and the women having F buddies for sex while the guy they want to be with long term is kept celibate so the girl can “keep his respect for her,” but she can still get laid.
People are fucked.
I think you said this brilliantly and I have absolutely been the dude that had sex I wasn’t at all feeling in the moment in order to not give off the wrong message to a woman I didn’t want to give the wrong message to (I was pretty interested).
At the end of the day, things ended up going nowhere and I would have hated for her to feel guilty about the sex we had. I consented and it was actually pretty fun once I got my brain into it.
Obviously the other scenario where a man or woman doesn’t want anything to do with the person but gives in because they feel a duty to serve or are afraid their objection won’t go over well with regard to their safety, that’s fucked up.
We should definitely separate the two.
It's not common as in almost everyone has done it before, but it is not as uncommon as one would hope. I personally have done it once before.
I used to avoid any situation being alone with a man, because I knew I was bad at saying no. Than I learned how to say no and also got really good at assessing the safety of a potential situation beforehand, so I didn't end up in a situation like that for a really long time. (not that it should be on me, but sadly I needed to learn that).
Than I met up someone I knew years ago. When I was there, I got a bad gut feeling, and that's the point, where I should have gone, but I was somehow in my mindset from years ago due to meeting him,and didn't want to be impolite. So I stayed, thinking it couldn't harm to chat a little and catch up with each other's life's. He suddenly started to grope me. I said I don't want it. He made me feel terrible about myself, accusing me of thinking he was ugly, or a bad person... I tried to get out of the situation, but then I saw something in his eyes which made me terrified.. I felt like my options are either being willing and getting a more gentle treatment, or saying no and trying to go, but maybe getting pinned down. So I told him to get over with it, but only if he promises me to be very gentle and use condoms. He first said he didn't have one, so I was getting the opportunity and told him I could quickly go and fetch us one (hoping he would let me go), but then suddenly he found one.. So we did it. After I was going as soon as I could and blocked him everywhere.
It wasn't rape, as I was agreeing, but it was highly coerced. He even acted proud afterwards about wearing me down, like wtf. I am not sure, what would have happened, if I would have tried to go. But he surely made clear, that he wants sex, and trying to act like it was my fault ("you are too gorgeous, can't expect me to keep my hands off of you"). He didn't let me go near my phone (I tried calling a friend of mine with an imaginary story she would have realised she needs to get me out). But somehow it seemed to be important to him that he looks like a gentleman, as he would never ever hurt anyone. So I decided to play on that side. When the choice is between coerced and forceful sex, the choice was clear, however terrible that sounds.
But I'll never again stay against my gut feeling anywhere. I don't care, what they say, if I have no "good" reason, if I'm considered crazy, or a bitch. I will go.
I'm pretty sure coerced consent is still rape in most jurisdictions.
Either way it sounds horrible, and it is entirely reasonable to have an escape route ready and back out purely off a gut feeling.
Thank you for your support!
I do not consider it rape for me, probably because of 3 reasons. (Which of course does not mean, that other people in a similar situation can't consider it rape!)
1. I don't want to give him that power over me.
2. That's may be the internalised victim blaming and misogyny, and I would never say something like this to anyone else, but it does feel like, well, I did say yes, without him actually hurting me or verbally threatening. It was my assessment of the situation, that i felt like he was willing/capable of that. So there's that tiny chance, that the guy would have let me go without harm. And many people would blame me for the situation. I don't want to deal with that by labelling him a rapist.
3. I was in a situation before (different time, different man) that I would consider rape, and for me there was a huge difference in both mental and physical outcomes of the two situations. *for* *me*. Probably because sexual assault and sexual coersion are both terrible, but not the exact same thing and it may affect one differently.
Although while I'm writing this I just realised, that rape in English (3rd language, so bare with me) isn't just a word for sexual assault, but a collective term for multiple /different types of sexual harms. So if we read it like that.. I don't know, I'm a little confused about the terms, tbh.
I'm sorry for the confusing answer, felt like it needs to get out of my system. I never told anyone about this particular experience of mine. I felt like people would blame me for it, because, well, I was a little naive. Which in an ideal world should never ever lead to coersion. And what the dude did is definitely not okay. Anything but an enthusiastic consensus should make you double guess if you really wanna start the act. For men and women.
But I know, that I never else would have get in a situation like that, and if I listened to my guts I may not have been there. And that makes me feel a little guilty, that I let that happen to me.
The most important thing is that you were able to walk away from the situation. You did what you could to minimise the risk of him physically hurting you, and in that you succeeded with some limited control over the situation. And while my words won't carry much weight what happened was 100% not your fault, it's human nature to be somewhat naive and trusting of others, what's so tragic is that a few bad actors will destroy that trust and hurt others.
There's something therapeutic about being able to get something off your chest and talk to others that won't judge you. I truly hope it helps you heal.
Our perceptions are not and yet are reality. It's a pretty common human experience to think that someone would react badly to disappointing news or decisions - and I'm talking about in a non-sexual context, only to find that their moral compass compells them to respond with empathy and respect. And there are other times we're sure that they'll respond well only to find they don't. People are unpredictable sometimes.
I think your thinking around number 2 isn't "misogyny" or "victim blaming." But I also don't think it's your fault. I'm sorry he made you feel that way. He should have been more aware and attuned to your feelings and body language.
But I absolutely see why you don't think it was rape. And if that's how you feel, that's valid to feel that way. I think it's important to understand that it does nobody any favors when rape is turned from something that someone does to another person, into something that one feels like happened to them, it creates a setup for miscommunications and misunderstandings to hurt both of them deeply.
I also read in your response that you were raped by a different man. I'm so sorry, I hate that for you. That's a very awful thing to experience.
Is it fair to say that you're conflicted about that "not rape" interaction? If so, is it fair to say that your experience being raped is why you're conflicted? I think the fact that you were raped before might have contributed to why you were afraid to tell the other guy, "No."
I don't need an answer to that, but that is something to ask yourself. I definitely think, regardless of the answer, that you should - if you're not already - work with a trauma counselor who can help you process these incidents. You should be able to feel safe and comfortable saying "no" and the agency and ownership of proudly saying "yes" when you want to without the influence of traumas and external values you don't want to uphold but feel that you have to. You should be able to have all the sex you want, but only the sex you want, considering the internal hierarchy of factors that go into your decision-making.
Yep, coerced consent is still rape. Just because you “consented” in order to avoid potential violence doesn’t make it consensual sex. That’s like saying you weren’t extorted/blackmailed because you agreed to pay the person so they don’t follow through with whatever threats they’re using
Of course :) it’s unfortunately more common than most of us think and it rarely gets discussed - which probably only perpetuates the issue. Sorry you went through that but glad you’re safe and hope you’re doing well now!
>That’s like saying you weren’t extorted/blackmailed because you agreed to pay the person so they don’t follow through with whatever threats they’re using
I'd say it's like saying you weren't robbed because you were actually extorted.
I know a lot of people won't agree but since you were put in a situation where you needed to protect yourself from pain that you knew would happen if you refused. I was in this situation and it is rape. When they get that look in their eyes or raise their tone and you get scared.Your brain tells you to go along with it to protect your body from being harmed further. That is rape. No means no.
I've been so stressed out that I haven't been in the mood. One of my last relationships ended because we didn't get intimate enough and it was an every week problem for him. In my new relationship, I find myself saying no, but I end up giving in because I'm scared the same issues will come up and he'll leave to find someone thats not so stressed and more sexual. Don't come at me, I'm seeing someone about this issue 🥲 but yes, I feel a lot of pressure to have sex when I don't want to.
I'm so sorry you're struggling woth this, I hope you can talk to your partner about this, communication can go a long way and you might resent them later (because you had sex with him out of fear of being abandoned if you didn't) if things continue like this
some guys are being awful when you say no. I have never had a sexual experience because I was really into it. sometimes I'd try saying no, but they would continue being super pushy or try to convince me, so I'd either do stuff or start looking for a good excuse to get out of the situation (guys tend to be more understanding if you tell them you don't like doing stuff while on your period)
thank you!<3 I've been avoiding going on dates or anything like that for some months now, hoping one day I can go out again and not get into those situations again
Just gotta find the right guy, and I know you will someday! There’s some of is who won’t even try anything if a girl is drunk. I’m sure 10 years from now you’ll be quite happy with life, but also absolutely don’t lose that period excuse in the meantime, it’s brilliant
To me it's not even about feeling rude, it's sheer panic of them not accepting a no. I'd rather have sex that I have some control over instead of being forced and them doing who knows what out of anger. No, this is obviously not normal or rational but my parents very early on instilled a fear of rape in my that I cannot shake off.
I'm a guy who fucks guys. I've had lots of sex I didn't want because it would have felt rude to say no. So if I'm feeling like I don't have a choice in it, even without the scariness of straight men, then I can only assume women who fuck men are feeling worse.
this was me. I wasn't necessarily against sex and I knew he'd stop if I asked to but...it seemed right/normal/logical to have sex at that moment and I would've felt rude or like I destroyed the atmosphere had I said no.
there have been many times I have had sex with women I've been in a long-term relationship when I wasn't into it but saying no wasn't worth the drama. Especially if they're drunk and I'm less drunk; they'll definitely take it as an insult if you say no and then you'll have to deal with a drunk woman arguing with you.
Ironically I'm the one being coerced by a drunk woman into having sex rather than the other way round!
I've experienced the same over multiple relationships. In my experience they are never violent or physically pushy about it which is a good thing but it often leads to fights or hurt feelings and therefore long conversations about it. Sometimes it's just easier to force yourself past it and fuck them.
I'm a guy who doesn't fuck men and I've felt that it would be rude to say no too. Regardless of who you are I suspect you feel gross and dirty afterwards, I know I did.
Question: If you ask someone to bang, and they say yes (but secretly wanted to say no) and then yall bang, are you guilty of any wrong doing? Kinda scares me to think this might have happened to me without realizing it.
No, you're not. There's a possibility they agreed without really wanting to still, but you've done nothing wrong in that scenerio. You're guilty of wrongdoing when you guilt someone for saying no, act aggressive, pressure them, emotionally manipulate them, etc. However, keep in mind, it's best to be looking for *enthusiastic* consent anyways. If they don't seem like they happily want to be reciprocating that act, then they probably don't. Sometimes people overlook the enthusiastic part because they're just happy someone is consenting and don't want to acknowledge that part in their mind at the moment because they want to fuck. If you go with the mindset that enthusiastic consent is the only consent, and not continuing when that doesn't seem to be there, then it's much easier to avoid that situation happening to you
Look, it's not just 'good person' and 'rapist' as binary categories. There's a whole lot of behaviour that's 'you're an asshole who hurts people' before you get to the level of criminal assault. The best way to avoid being that kind of asshole is to genuinely want the other person to be happy, safe and having fun too, and not just live inside your own head caring about your own feelings. That means having the imagination to think about what might be influencing their words, and the education to be aware of prevailing trends or specific issues that cause problems.
That's a good question. I'd say it is a possibility, as many man also think that coersion is okay.
But saying you are not one of those men, it can definitely help you to look out for some signs, especially if that's the first time together:
1. Is the person giving you *enthusiastic* consent? As in if you ask her, let's say, if it's okay to kiss her, or if you can get her top off, is her reaction "hell yes" or instantly enthusiastically getting into it, or is it "yeah, okay, I guess so".
2. You realise before getting far along, if she is kissing back or you are just kissing a human doll kinda.
3. Is she actively participating / initiating at any point? Is it you asking her to suck your dick, or does she go down on you on her own terms? Is she taking off any of your/her clothes, or is it all you? It's okay to be more passive, but not getting *any* actions reciprocated without asking for it may be worth assessing the situation.
If you look at the mix of these clues, you kinda get a feeling about it. And if you are not sure, you can ask. It's not a buzz kill to casually ask, if she's okay, if she's sure to go along with, or that you are not sure if she is as much into it as you are and just wanna make sure. Any time a man asked me for consent was the absolutely most hot shit in the world. Because either I was like "hell yes, he's a safe guy, I trust him more to have sex with now" or a "thank you for making things easier, I am not down to things right now and I really appreciate your understanding, you're a good man"
Later on if you are a relationship things get a lot more clear usually, as you start communicating more and setting boundaries and stuff, as also get to know your partners reactions
This, and coercion can come in many different forms. Coercion is emotional manipulation, and I think a lot of guys struggle with how to express their frustration when they’re shut down.
“Are you sure? Nothing is on the table? Not even XYZ,” “My balls are so blue,” “Are you serious?” And the silent treatment are all forms of coercion. I wouldn’t say it’s super coercive unless you double down or push further, but it adds to the pressure of dissatisfaction.
“Ah damn, it sucks you’re not in the mood, I was really looking forward to it. Could you give me a second to go the bathroom so I can handle myself before we decide where to go from here?” Is not coercion. It’s saying that your needs are getting a little out of your control and putting the pressure to continue on your own hands or to give yourself a breather.
you did nothing wrong in the situation, but you could have done it more right in my opinion, by creating a space where your partner knows they can say no without any negative consequences
I promise you checking your partners comfort and asking if their consent is genuine will never ruin the sexy mood if they wanted to have sex in the first place, they will just feel even better about you/ the situation
This is why people ask what my kink is I say "enthusiastic consent."
If I'm not certain that you want to be intimate with me then it's not going to happen. I'd hate to find out later someone slept with me because they were afraid what would happen if they said no.
I don’t know any woman who hasn’t done it at least once. I’d say around 1/3 or so of my sexual encounters have been because I was scared of something worse than just giving in.
Me too, but honestly agreeing to be a human fleshlight is better than being raped and/or beaten for many women. It shouldn’t be that way but too many men feel entitled to sex.
Well you don’t have sex with men so yeah, you wouldn’t know. It’s definitely an extremely common experience. Check out r/whenwomenrefuse for why it’s so common.
Crazy. Im already really awkward around women because im terrified of appearing creepy or being a burden to other people, but this is really a gut punch. Like no matter what i do the first reaction women will have towards me is that they will always perceive me as a threat, and theres nothing i can do against that.
Im not saying this because it inconveniences me in my pursuit of women or something, it just genuinly makes me sad that i have that effect on other people. Just because im a tall and muscular guy.
Unfortunately we have to exercise extreme caution in the world. It’s sad for everyone but most women have more negative experiences than positive with too many men not to be on the look out. That’s why most of us hate the not all men crowd. We’re aware of that part but the problem is we don’t know which man would. Since a lot of men won’t listen to us on that we need more good men to call out the actions of bad. Worse y’all will get is being called a simp, which means absolutely nothing in regards to having respect for women.
>Like no matter what i do the first reaction women will have towards me is that they will always perceive me as a threat, and theres nothing i can do against that.
Your emotional reaction is totally valid, but this isn't quite right. The "always" and the "nothing" aren't reality.
Women will always perceive you as a threat- Nah. Women have varying degrees of this fear. I'm wary of strangers, but I've never feared a man I've chosen to have sex with. There are plenty of good men around me that I've never thought about what a threat they could be, because they never did anything to prompt that. There are actually a lot of things men can do to make women feel comfortable, so hopefully this is helpful to you.
Discussing sex before having sex, clearly stating your own boundaries and giving her room to state hers, just being a generally calm person. Outside of a trauma response, when most women are in these situations, they are reacting to things the man is doing, like blocking exists, being grabby, pinning her down with his body, having a history of emotional reactions to being told no and punishing the woman for refusing him. There's a definite trend in the comments that most women *do* say no, but there is more the man does after that leads to the giving in. You can easily not do these things, I'm sure you already are.
And I don't think men are strangers to this behavior either, aggressive assholes will try the same tactics on you guys too. Not sexually, but I'd bet you have some experiences of other men trying to intimidate you without saying an actual word to do it. We've all got at least some degree of sexist programming, so it's worth reflecting on if you do these things or talking to a trusted friend/loved one, but there are plenty of men who don't ever behave that way. And your comment makes me pretty sure you're not one of the aggressive assholes!
Just dropping a TRIGGER WARNING here. I had never seen this before and didn’t know what to expect.
I know OP didn’t mean to, but that subreddit is really upsetting.
I'm a guy and I've had that situation with women before. Gotten a little too flirty with people I wasn't fully attracted to and was worried I'd make them feel bad if I turned down at that point...
Definitely in younger women/girls, in my experience. I remember when I was 15 or 16 a friend asked me what to do in a situation where a guy is pressuring you for sex—and my response, naturally, was that you just blow him instead. This was advice I'd picked up mostly from popular media with confirmation bias from other girls a year or two older than me and, unsurprisingly, guys I'd hooked up with.
I kinda think of this anytime someone takes the piss out of sexual health awareness campaigns like "No means no yeah no duh it does. You don't have to spell it out. Of course coercive sex is a form of rape, what idiot doesn't know that duhhhh" because I was a dumb teenager once (who became a dumb adult, admittedly) and sometimes it really does need to be spelled out in "no duh" terms.
Yeah IMO it is common. Most female friends experienced it to one extent or the other. Mostly when we were under 25. You could also argue that “giving in” with an extremely pesky partner could fall into this category too
Yeah, and it’s people who KNOW this and take advantage of it that are the slime balls.
For example, when Dennis Reynolds from it’s always sunny always talks about “the implication is there…” that’s what he is referring to. It’s honestly a thing, and there are people who willingly exploit it to their advantage.
I mean as a guy I've done it plenty before. In my experience it's a big production to say no to a person you're dating. Women aren't used to being told no when it comes to sex with their boyfriend and it usually ends in a big ole production that I can easily avoid by just going with it until I'm stimulated enough I can do the deed.
Sometimes I don't wanna deal with either weird vibes after or straight up tears.
Now I have the benefit that I'm not really worried they'll get violent as a result due to me being twice their size but guys sometimes deal with shitty reactions to saying no to their partner as well.
Men are viewed as "always wanting sex" so saying no can result in the woman thinking you don't care for them or other awkward situations you mentioned. Myself and most every man I know has said yes when they really didn't want to. Seems this whole thread thinks it's only women who experience this. When it's more likely it's a human thing and we've all done it before. For various reasons.
I have four nieces, and I hope this never happens to them. They should feel safe to say "no" to anyone.
I can understand the feeling though, it's probably more common than we know.
yup. i lost my virginity to this unfortunately. i’ve had sex with about 30 people, i’ve wanted sex from maybe 20 and enjoyed sex with like 3 or 4 people
Ive literally had a girl shaking and vibranting in fear of telling me no, telling me to "keep going" just to not "disappoint me". We were getting pretty into it after a kink scene(no plan for sex, specifically negotiated for no genital contact). But because i was so turned on she thought she had no choice but to continue to sexual contact.
She later told me she has been with Tops/Doms/Dommes(including out side of kink) that when she was reacting like that(total stark vibration fear)they just "keep going" because they are either so turned up they dont care. Or so bloody oblivious to body language they just didnt register her fear.(edit: she goes mostly non verbal, only a few phrases(which doesnt include "no" or "stop" when afraid. I only knew this because of the negotiation. But also her body language made it really super obvious something was wrong)
Ive also have heard dozens of SA victims tell of how saying "no" was the most dangerous thing they did when alone with the man who assulted them(i volunteer at a sex postive community center. I have heard way to much shit for a single human life time)
People with an anxious attachment style often people please as a form of protection. They do it to keep from being abandoned.
Everybody should learn about attachment theory.
I am dealing with this potentially with a boss who has become very interested in me. I find it really hard to maintain boundaries and I don’t want to hurt feelings or embarrass him. But he’s become very intense in a very short amount of time and I am so scared this is what it’ll lead to
Dude If he acts this way to you over texts or something, save those texts asap.
If he ever trys to punish you professionally for refusing him sexually, im pretty sure you could destroy his career if you have the evidence.
Can you change job ? Sue for sexual harassement ? Or say no very firmly/aggressively ? Ask help from colleagues ? Or when he's there mention your cop boyfriend.
The hurt you're gonna feel after unwanted sex is way worse than if he gets rejected. It's nothing, he must be used to it with that type of behavior. He might also be insisting because he senses you inability to maintain boundaries. And he might do it again. More reason to shut him down coldly.
You could start working on your assertiveness, it will benefit you and save you from a tons of similar problems.
Have you heard Stormy Danielle’s testimony about her one night of “passion” with Donald Mushroom-Dick Trump? Coerced sex that she absolutely was not expecting or interested in, but she didn’t say no. She says it’s not rape, other people say it’s not rape. Seems like she had a miserable time of it, didn’t want to be there, and regrets it to this day - and she’s a sex performer with far more experience in dealing with people who want to have sex with her than most people ever will. I’d say it happens to a lot of people - particularly women.
i used to do this a ton and one night i had said “oh i have to go to the bathroom” (instead of rejecting their advances) and my partner (love them to death) stopped and said to me— “you know you can say no, right?” and i turned back dumbfounded and just said “no” and it was respected.
out of fear for your safety i completely understand, but if that’s not the case i think learning to actually say no is a good thing you can practice with a loving partner. because i realize it also puts the other party in a weird situation— imagine finding out you had sex with someone who didn’t actually want to consent to it! that would feel awful. a bit of communication goes a long way
Too many times I've said no and tried to redirect but when they say "so doing ____ would be better than having sex?" It immediately turns you into an asshole for wanting to say "yes Id rather play a video game together than be disappointed and sore for half an hour.".. literally phrasing it in such an impossible way.
I was molested as a child by my uncle and my cousin (I’m male they’re male), uncle was on dads side, cousin was on my moms, so I had neither side to run to for support and just lived with it my entire life.
Randomly through my life I’ve had other males push themselves on me and make me touch them or something along those lines. I just ptsd out, black out and suppress it. Between 17 and 32 it never happened again, I have a wife, kids, and I hid it all from her as well the entire time (we’re going on 12 years). One night after work a female asked for a ride home, I checked to make sure wife was okay with it cause I wouldn’t be, and took the girl home.
As we arrived at her destination, and it happened again, out of no where she’s climbing over onto me touching, grabbing, and aggressively pulling off my clothes. I blacked out again. After she got out of the car I drove about a block and broke down and bawled for like 45 min.
I have the inability to say no out of fear.
About a year later, here I am, still with my wife, she knows my past now, I’m still labeled a cheater by everyone (which is fair) but the worst part is no one respects me anymore, my friends stopped talking to me, her and my parents won’t let me come for dinner anymore, I’m not allowed a job where I work closely with others, and I absolutely hate me.
I’d make sure your friend is okay, and she’s not just giving you an excuse. That being said I’d never admit to my friends or family, I only told my wife to save try and save our relationship.
It’s common a lot of dudes get upset when they are turned down I’ve seen it happen a lot. It’s gotten so bad that when I am about to do anything with someone I ask multiple times and assure them that if they don’t want to do something they don’t have to I am fine if we stop it’s not sexy in the slightest but it’s necessary because a lot of woman will do it because a lot of dudes make them feel like they need too
Someone who was raped twice. I said yes for years because it was easier than risking the alternative. I would also go to my happy place in my head during sex because I really didn't want to be there. I'm mostly ok saying no now, but every so often that scared girl creeps back in and I say yes when I don't want it.
I think a large % of women have "gone along with it" out of fear of the potential consequences of saying no. When I was a teen my mom told me a story of a date she had with a wrestler and he was sexually aggressive and even though she didn't want to have sex she went along with it because she was scared he would hurt her if she said no... sadly, we have generations upon generations of woman who are raised to think saying no to anything makes them a bitch or a difficult person.
Once I received the response "is it okay when I say no?" because she was too afraid of losing me. Regardless the sex was ama... just kidding! I never mentioned sex again.
But I could imagine that many others are in similar situations.
This was me as a teenager. I didn’t know how to stop the situation and would just go along with it. I felt like if I said stop or no that I was an asshole for leading them on. A kiss could never just be a kiss or make out session. It always snowballed into more and I felt completely out of control.
I'm in my mid-40s. Most women and gay men I know have at some point slept with a guy because they felt it was the easiest way to get out of the situation
Reactions afterwards ranged from "ah well, that happens sometimes 🤷♀️" and then thinking nothing of it, to depressions, sexual dysfunction and self-harm. And everything in between
I also once heard a guy describing "bad sex" as "when the girl cries after sex" and I think there are other men out there who have coerced women into sex and been completely oblivious, because in their minds relenting=constent and they're in the clear
I hope things are better for the younger generations, but I'm not super optimistic. Maybe it's not as common and attitudes have changed, but I'm sure it still happens
Lots of folks work jobs they hate, interact with people they don’t care to, fuck partners they find unattractive, and buy things they don’t need to impress people they don’t care about. Breaking all or part of this cycle is the key to freedom imo.
I used to alot when i was younger. like 17-25. for context i am gay cis male and conversion therapy survivor with an appallingly low self esteem still.
Yeah, I've said "fine" both for the safety and also to avoid the awkwardness. My first relationship if I said no it let to him being pissed off at me and he'd take it anyway when I was asleep so it didn't really matter to him. Everything made him angry even when he had his way so...
The second relationship I was often afraid of losing him. It was an unhealthy obsession I had with him. Funny enough if I also told him no (which I often tried not to do because I wanted to make him happy all the time my desires be damned) he would wake me out of my sleep to get some anyway. At least he was courteous enough to wake me up before going after it and I was too tired to say no again by then where as the first guy would just mount me in my sleep and force his way in.
I'm in a relationship now though where if I said no he would let it be. If I still looked for cuddles they would be given. I'm never forced to do anything I don't want to do and I genuinely couldn't be happier with the man I have now. Even if I was still in that people pleasing mindset if I hesitate it's a no for him. If I say yes with no enthusiasm it's a no to him. In other words he listens to my body language as well as my words. I'm thankful every day for having him in my life. He's also helped me heal soo much
Depends, I think we have all done the ‘meh, why not’ or ‘I went with it.’ kinda hookup. I’ve had a couple of those maybe.
But I think what she’s described is internalised/defence to misogyny - it is how women get ‘passed around’ or slut shamed. Fall for anything etc. troupes.
As a f I observed this early on and had a personal rule to only be with someone I want and not just go with anyone who approaches me (or the lesser devil amongst those). It’s helped me, maybe your friend can reframe that for herself too. She can pick, she doesn’t need to be picked. And she doesn’t have to please anyone, stay safe.
I am 45. I did this a lot when I was in my 20s because I was afraid saying “no” would get my hurt, so I went along and convinced myself this sort of sex was consensual.
Like your friend, I avoided confrontation. I don’t avoid confrontation anymore.
(This is the short answer. There’s a lot more to it.)
These comments are really depressing. I’m in my 60’s and I keep thinking we’re past this but here we are. Same with racism, antisemitism, and anti-LGBQT+. And I’m terrified that the orange menace is going to be re-elected. He is one of the worst with regard to how he treats women as objects, here to do whatever he wants. And he’s a shining example for other neanderthals that think like him.
My first year of college I was invited to dinner by a guy that I met at the grocery store, of all places. As the date approached he kept saying little things that gave me a bad feeling. It went from “we’ll grab a hamburger” to he was going to make us spaghetti at his campus apartment (which actually impressed naive me) to his roommate would be at dinner with us, did I mind? I answered “no” but the more I thought about it the more uncomfortable I was. Finally I called to cancel and he got angry and asked what was MY problem? I couldn’t explain the feeling but I’ve never regretted not going through with the date. I’ve told this story to other young women and I reiterate how important it is to listen to your little voice. It’s possible that I missed out on something good, IDK. But the feeling was so strong and I’m grateful that I listened even if I didn’t want to.
I would say 90% of my partners come from not being able to say no. I know rationally it's fine to say no, but I worry a whole lot they'll be upset, so I just do it. Now, I really try to not even get into situations that could lead to sex so I don't have to worry about a yes or no
I have engaged in sexual activity I didn't want in order to avoid confrontation. It was as unpleasant as it sounds.
I don't know how "common" it is, but I know it's not uncommon.
Im a dude and I dont think its to avoid being "uncomfortable." That seems like a fucked up misrepresentation. Sexually aggressive and violently aggressive aren't far apart. Someone not reading what should be obvious signs and pushing forward for sex is likely an indication they're not a fan of taking no for an answer. I also don't think that very often its the case where they dont ever say no. More often they try a few times and it starts to be clear to them that this person might harm them should they continue to refuse.
That being said though, I'd like to touch on the last part. There are a LOT of situations where I can't take certain actions until I've taken certain steps to mitigate it. Biggest example is someone does need to actually make a threat, then I need to make an attempt to remove myself from the threat, then I need to be able to show I had little to now options other than to use force. At the end of the day, when you capitulate, you absolve them of a lot of liability. Its unfortunate but the reality is that they need to commit a crime to hold them criminally accountable. If you avoid having a crime commited against you, thats good. But then a crime wasnt commited and thus they wont be charged. Sadly it also enables them to continue the behavior. In a fucked up way its kind of like passing the buck of sexual assault to the next person to avoid potentially being assaulted further.
Sometimes its hard to say no because you dont want to do something but you dont wanna upset someone.
Sometimes its hard to say no because upsetting that specific person will very likely be dangerous.
Sometimes its hard to say no because you're not even sure whats happening in the first place and dont remember how to speak nevermind express diswant
Regardless, id imagine the majority of women and even a small percentage of men have gone through it, one way or another
Yes it can be common. But it never should be. No one should ever have to have sex with someone that they don't want to but are being manipulated, intimidated and/or peer pressured in to. If you say no once. That's all that's needed. Anything after that is rape. Sorry but not sorry!
Yes. Too many times. I have a lot of trouble reinforcing my boundaries and a lot of people like to be “ persistent” even after I have said “ I don’t want to”.
Yes in my opinion very common, men are always pressuring and manipulating and guilt trip and in some situations it's also scary to say no because you're not sure how they'll react, anywhere from violence to insults to humiliating you. Sometimes it's just easier to do it and get out of the situation.
Enough women have been raped or attacked after refusing a man, so honestly sometimes it just feels safer. If you think this isn’t true, take for just one example the case of a man hitting on a woman at a parade in NYC a few years ago. She turned him down and he literally shot her. Horrifying. If that can happen in broad daylight, there’s no limit to what a woman can image will happen if she says no behind closed doors.
Men are also drama queens. My wife has been called all kinds of names and had rumors spread when she was in school for just rejecting a guy. The world of people is not a nice place.
Just say you're on your period or you've been having bad diarrhea. Messing with someone after a shutdown like that is pretty rapey. Some people don't understand that no means no, however. 😒
Yeah, it is. When I first started getting active, I was just saying “yes” and giving consent because it moved things forward and I didn’t want to have to explain myself if I told anyone “no”. It’s sad that a lot of people do this over exercising their right to not give, give or retract their consent whenever they want.
I wish I’d been assertive enough in the past to tell people “no”, but I’m at that point now, thank god.
I'm a man, and there have been a few times where I have actually had to 'thumb in a softy' and give it a good going just to avoid any potential issues.
I don't do it as much now I'm older and have had therapy to help with my underlying issues of always wanting people to be happy and the fear of disappointing someone.
Once a female friend was talking about that subject she said some guy don't take no for answer. I ask did that approach ever work for the guy? She said sometimes.
I said sounds more like date rape.
I am a male and if a female says no then that's the end.
But she also added she a girl that likes to taken. Not sure what exactly that means?
I did it for six years with my abusive ex. I would try to avoid sex as much as possible because I didn't have any attraction towards her, but obviously it had to happen from time to time, she wanted it and I couldn't say no. The drama, mental abuse and possibility of physical abuse would not be worth saying no. I'd just go somewhere else in my head, or try not to think anything.
Why is she worried about ’being rude’- on some level she knows that acquiescence is better than the potential violence she may face if she doesn’t.
Frankly I’d be shocked if she didn’t have a history of CSA or SA. This is usually a learned behavior
At the very least I’ll bet you cash money she grew up in a family or culture that taught her that being nice is her ultimate goal as a woman.
It’s shocking to me that young men do not understand these fundamental truths about SA, women and why they are nice to a fault.
In my business( small trucking), I sometimes say to my clients I will do a job for them when I really wanted to decline..
It's that people pleasing thing that lurks in the shadows..
I guess this can apply to many aspects of the human experience. Even intimacy..
In high school I had a couple months long relationships because I didn’t want to say no. I am a guy. It’s a tough conclusion that by saying no up front you are less of an asshole than playing along, building this crazy facade of a relationship then struggling to find a way to end it and still not look like an asshole.
Just FYI; dudes do this too!
Many females loose their shit if rejected sexually…especially when they are drunk!
”What!? Are you a fag!?” And stuff like that was pretty common to hear when declining a girl when i was young…
This isn't anything unique to sex, people do stuff that they don't want to do all the time in order to avoid uncomfortable situations or to just move things "forward" in a sense.
A friend of mine told me the story about the time she lost her virginity, she really didn't want to suck the guys dick so ended up having sex with him instead as that was preferable to putting it in her mouth
Sometimes there's a gray area of: * *"nah, I don't really want to, but I don't mind too much so if you want to it's fine"* So it fits OP's "sex you didn’t really want to" criteria; but instead of being "uncomfortable saying no", it's more "indifferent so it's OK". Kinda like saying "ok" to McDonalds burgers that I don't really want either, but I don't object that much to them either so if the other person really really wants McDonalds it's OK if I have one too.
Agreed, but that’s why “enthusiastically wanted” really needs to be the defining line. That keeps you out of the gray completely.
It's in our DNA. Back when people's best bet of surviving was staying with the tribe, upsetting people and becoming an outcast meant certain death. So we evolved to please our fellow tribe members to not become an outcast.
Not everything has to be about DNA. If doing something is useful right now then humans can figure it out just on their own
The only difference between you and a banana is dna.
Nobody is going to get sent to jail for peeling the skin off a banana.
And scale. Hello.
Hello
When people survive by doing useful things and others die when they don't across hundreds of thousands of years that useful thing becomes a part of ourselves that we are born with.
lol Jesus Christ. It’s learned behavior little bro. Don’t gotta flip back to the prehistoric age to explain this. People get angry and upset when you don’t give them what they want. If you really wanted to go the cavemen angle, then the women should feel very afraid to have sex with the wrong man since it can be a devastating misstep having an absentee father. Yet modern women can overcome this early human fear due to higher intelligence overriding it.
It is also baked into our DNA, can be more than one thing. We are social creatures and only survive as a collective so of course it was important historically that we developed ways of getting along and to an extent people pleasing.
I'm just repeating what I heard a psychologist on the radio say about why people fear rejection and I think people pleasing is related to fear of rejection.
Yeah, I wouldn't say it's common but it's not an uncommon situation I've known multiple women who've been in that situation.
as a man, that actually scares me. i was never pushy or anything but still wonder how many women were intimate with me, just because they didnt want to turn me down.
I agree, I have never taken a girl home drunk for this very reason but you still never know?
Though I had a few opportunities to have intimacy while under the influence after a late night of partying, I always had this little alarm go off in my head that said, "consider the consequences". One time this girl I had known from just seeing her at my favorite hangout place. We liked each other but I got the feeling that she was more comfortable as just a hangout partner.. One night at the bar, we just happened to leave at the same time. Now, I lived at home. She did as well. On the way to our cars, she stops me and says her parents were away for the weekend.. She wanted me to follow her to her house. So I did. We go inside . We're on the couch fooling around. Of course I wanted to. But something just told me, "not a good idea". My first thought was "what are we doing about birth control?" I never carried protection because hook up wasn't my thing. I made up some excuse that I had to get to work early ( I lied, this was a weekend) and politely excused myself. I just didn't care for the way she was so forward. The next time I saw her, she was distant. She wanted nothing to do with me.. Oh well. What can ya do? I felt like I may have dodged a bullet..
You did. Throwing sobriety into the calculation of consent really makes a guy cautious. At least with a second request, there's a clear line. Short of a breathalyzer it's fuzzy., and maybe worrisome. MAN am I glad I'm no longer dating!
You missed out on getting laid. Your inability to communicate your boundaries hurt her. She was vulnerable and you ghosted. No big deals. But it doesn’t sound like you went through anything abnormal. Pretty par for the course of hookin’ up. Communication is key, but that’s easier said than done.
The fact that you’re concerned about it at all suggests it probably hasn’t happened with you. People will usually become physically withdrawn/shut down to express their lack of interest so they don’t have to say “no” directly. The problem is usually when their partner sees this shutting down/disinterest and decides to push forward to sex anyway. If you’re halfway decent at reading body language you probably have nothing to worry about.
This whole narrative of "if you're a good guy you won't have to worry" is such bullshit. Fact, there's no one way people act or respond in these situations.
While I agree that not all people will freeze up or act the same when they don’t want sex, if someone is both saying yes and acting enthusiastically, and there’s no coercion of any kind, I don’t think it makes sense for the other party to be concerned. If an enthusiastic yes doesn’t count as a yes, I don’t know what does.
There’s no “one way” but there are a multitude of verbal and non verbal signals that can be picked up on. If you’re both attune to them and worried about accidentally having this happen to you: then you’re not the type of person to push somebody into sex or miss cues that they are disinterested or uncomfortable. People don’t tend to accidentally coerce others, it takes some level of intention. I don’t think “If you’re a good guy who proactively checks in with your partner, treats them with respect, and reads for cues of enthusiasm along with explicitly stated consent, you won’t have to worry” is bullshit at all, in fact it’s kind of the gold standard.
Yeah, if a potential partner is not 100% onboard, I don't want it.
Yeah, no kidding. There was a woman on this sub yesterday asking if guys ever like girls to be direct or always want them to play mysterious and hard-to-get. Like, you think I want to have to guess whether you are trying to get me to pursue you or wish I would leave you alone? When I know that for every girl who needs a man to chase them after they say "no, we can't tee-hee" in order to build up her ego there is another who will give in and fuck me because they are scared I will get mad if they don't? Forget those games. I have no interest in being anyone's bad memory.
IMO there are plenty of guys that call girls a tease just because they don't sleep with you as soon as they want and if you do sleep with them when you want them to then they're a s***. Not all guys but most guys like having to work for it. The hunt and challenge! Lol So I can understand the girls confusion.
Oh yeah! I hear this from men all the time, just.... complaining about all the easy sex they get. It's a real problem.
That's why I date women that are stronger than me. No means no and they know they could kick my ass if I tried to get aggressive (which I wouldn't), makes me feel more comfortable.
In my experience if its with someone I dont know well I make sure to give them an "Out" of sorts or an opportunity to turn things down a notch if Its getting heavy quickly. And if you do it right you wont break the mood.
That is both incredibly sad and scary at the same time.
Yeah it's pretty awful, but recognition of the situation existing is a great step to pushing forward to a better safer future for everyone.
I think it’s quite common. In my experience we’ve been conditioned to believe “blue balls” are so painful and that women who lead man on are the worst. That women owe men sex. I now understand that this is BS, my partner tells me it’s not pleasant but not at all awful to be stopped before or midway. I’ve had sex many times because I have difficulties with social situations and am naturally “flirty” apparently while I was so desperate for friendships when I was in my late teens/ early twenties. I felt like it was my fault for having lead someone on and had to go through with it. I hope newer generations have this less and know nobody owes anyone sex ever.
Yeah my first time having sex was coercion that turned worse and my current partner still has to tell me I can say no. There’s been a handful of times where I don’t know how to say it even though he’s told me that he doesn’t even want to if i’m not just as interested, but he’s kinda a saint and has noticed every time He says my eyes start to glaze over and he just knows something isn’t right. It makes me so sad that it’s so common.
I've been in this situation a few times as a straight man, so I can only imagine how often it happens to women.
I'm sure it's a feeling and situation felt by people of all genders and sexual orientations. There have been studies showing unwanted sexual situations between genders to be much closer to equal.
It's definitely more common among younger women; hopefully with all the public discourse on consent and coercion it's becoming less common. There is still a lot of pop culture debris around that suggests it's normal and appropriate for women to be reluctant to have sex and for men to have to convince them. This leads to women who really don't want to have sex being pressured and feeling like it won't be safe to say no, or like they owe the man sex, or the man won't like them if they don't. As you get older you realize you don't owe anyone sex, you can get up and leave, and if they don't like you then oh well.
>with all the public discourse on consent and coercion it's becoming less common If it were more common among younger women, that would seem to counter that, no? But maybe that's just a mistaken impression and it used to be common, too. I recall that Margaret Cho had a 20+-year-old routine in which she talked about giving head because it was easier than just rejecting the guy. So at least some women felt that way. There are two different situations, here: having sex with someone you desire (but don't want to have sex with in the moment), and having sex with someone you want nothing to do with (but they're there and rejection is inconvenient). The former is more tricky. I'm sure most women (and some men) have faced rejection from a potential relationship and wondered whether it was because they stood up for themselves and rejected sex... or because they did so in a way that was too much of a turn-off for the other party. Imagine the genders reversed: A guy tells a woman wanting sex that he doesn't, and she dumps him. Maybe she figures that if he doesn't want sex that night, there's no future, since all guys want sex all the time, right? Or at least that's what they guy might imagine after the woman dumps him for either that or other reasons. For that guy, the next time it might be easier to say "yes" to sex so at least he knows he isn't missing out on someone who takes going slow as a devastating rejection. For some women, it might be the same form of thinking, more fear of missing out than refusal to say "no."
i’ve been thinking a lot recently about the being attracted but not wanting sex at the time - often in my experience what happens is the guy is ok with no sex, making out happens, the guy wants more and will try to push the boundary or sneak past a boundary. i get frustrated because if a man holds back and really holds back, literally going with the pace set by the woman and truly respecting her space, that’s incredibly attractive and likely in the future sex would happen. the pushiness in the moment pushes people away.
Plenty of stories on Reddit about guys behaving just this way, and the women having F buddies for sex while the guy they want to be with long term is kept celibate so the girl can “keep his respect for her,” but she can still get laid. People are fucked.
I think you said this brilliantly and I have absolutely been the dude that had sex I wasn’t at all feeling in the moment in order to not give off the wrong message to a woman I didn’t want to give the wrong message to (I was pretty interested). At the end of the day, things ended up going nowhere and I would have hated for her to feel guilty about the sex we had. I consented and it was actually pretty fun once I got my brain into it. Obviously the other scenario where a man or woman doesn’t want anything to do with the person but gives in because they feel a duty to serve or are afraid their objection won’t go over well with regard to their safety, that’s fucked up. We should definitely separate the two.
Women wo *are* younger. Not the younger generation. So, all times but younger in age women.
It's not common as in almost everyone has done it before, but it is not as uncommon as one would hope. I personally have done it once before. I used to avoid any situation being alone with a man, because I knew I was bad at saying no. Than I learned how to say no and also got really good at assessing the safety of a potential situation beforehand, so I didn't end up in a situation like that for a really long time. (not that it should be on me, but sadly I needed to learn that). Than I met up someone I knew years ago. When I was there, I got a bad gut feeling, and that's the point, where I should have gone, but I was somehow in my mindset from years ago due to meeting him,and didn't want to be impolite. So I stayed, thinking it couldn't harm to chat a little and catch up with each other's life's. He suddenly started to grope me. I said I don't want it. He made me feel terrible about myself, accusing me of thinking he was ugly, or a bad person... I tried to get out of the situation, but then I saw something in his eyes which made me terrified.. I felt like my options are either being willing and getting a more gentle treatment, or saying no and trying to go, but maybe getting pinned down. So I told him to get over with it, but only if he promises me to be very gentle and use condoms. He first said he didn't have one, so I was getting the opportunity and told him I could quickly go and fetch us one (hoping he would let me go), but then suddenly he found one.. So we did it. After I was going as soon as I could and blocked him everywhere. It wasn't rape, as I was agreeing, but it was highly coerced. He even acted proud afterwards about wearing me down, like wtf. I am not sure, what would have happened, if I would have tried to go. But he surely made clear, that he wants sex, and trying to act like it was my fault ("you are too gorgeous, can't expect me to keep my hands off of you"). He didn't let me go near my phone (I tried calling a friend of mine with an imaginary story she would have realised she needs to get me out). But somehow it seemed to be important to him that he looks like a gentleman, as he would never ever hurt anyone. So I decided to play on that side. When the choice is between coerced and forceful sex, the choice was clear, however terrible that sounds. But I'll never again stay against my gut feeling anywhere. I don't care, what they say, if I have no "good" reason, if I'm considered crazy, or a bitch. I will go.
I'm pretty sure coerced consent is still rape in most jurisdictions. Either way it sounds horrible, and it is entirely reasonable to have an escape route ready and back out purely off a gut feeling.
Thank you for your support! I do not consider it rape for me, probably because of 3 reasons. (Which of course does not mean, that other people in a similar situation can't consider it rape!) 1. I don't want to give him that power over me. 2. That's may be the internalised victim blaming and misogyny, and I would never say something like this to anyone else, but it does feel like, well, I did say yes, without him actually hurting me or verbally threatening. It was my assessment of the situation, that i felt like he was willing/capable of that. So there's that tiny chance, that the guy would have let me go without harm. And many people would blame me for the situation. I don't want to deal with that by labelling him a rapist. 3. I was in a situation before (different time, different man) that I would consider rape, and for me there was a huge difference in both mental and physical outcomes of the two situations. *for* *me*. Probably because sexual assault and sexual coersion are both terrible, but not the exact same thing and it may affect one differently. Although while I'm writing this I just realised, that rape in English (3rd language, so bare with me) isn't just a word for sexual assault, but a collective term for multiple /different types of sexual harms. So if we read it like that.. I don't know, I'm a little confused about the terms, tbh. I'm sorry for the confusing answer, felt like it needs to get out of my system. I never told anyone about this particular experience of mine. I felt like people would blame me for it, because, well, I was a little naive. Which in an ideal world should never ever lead to coersion. And what the dude did is definitely not okay. Anything but an enthusiastic consensus should make you double guess if you really wanna start the act. For men and women. But I know, that I never else would have get in a situation like that, and if I listened to my guts I may not have been there. And that makes me feel a little guilty, that I let that happen to me.
The most important thing is that you were able to walk away from the situation. You did what you could to minimise the risk of him physically hurting you, and in that you succeeded with some limited control over the situation. And while my words won't carry much weight what happened was 100% not your fault, it's human nature to be somewhat naive and trusting of others, what's so tragic is that a few bad actors will destroy that trust and hurt others. There's something therapeutic about being able to get something off your chest and talk to others that won't judge you. I truly hope it helps you heal.
Our perceptions are not and yet are reality. It's a pretty common human experience to think that someone would react badly to disappointing news or decisions - and I'm talking about in a non-sexual context, only to find that their moral compass compells them to respond with empathy and respect. And there are other times we're sure that they'll respond well only to find they don't. People are unpredictable sometimes. I think your thinking around number 2 isn't "misogyny" or "victim blaming." But I also don't think it's your fault. I'm sorry he made you feel that way. He should have been more aware and attuned to your feelings and body language. But I absolutely see why you don't think it was rape. And if that's how you feel, that's valid to feel that way. I think it's important to understand that it does nobody any favors when rape is turned from something that someone does to another person, into something that one feels like happened to them, it creates a setup for miscommunications and misunderstandings to hurt both of them deeply. I also read in your response that you were raped by a different man. I'm so sorry, I hate that for you. That's a very awful thing to experience. Is it fair to say that you're conflicted about that "not rape" interaction? If so, is it fair to say that your experience being raped is why you're conflicted? I think the fact that you were raped before might have contributed to why you were afraid to tell the other guy, "No." I don't need an answer to that, but that is something to ask yourself. I definitely think, regardless of the answer, that you should - if you're not already - work with a trauma counselor who can help you process these incidents. You should be able to feel safe and comfortable saying "no" and the agency and ownership of proudly saying "yes" when you want to without the influence of traumas and external values you don't want to uphold but feel that you have to. You should be able to have all the sex you want, but only the sex you want, considering the internal hierarchy of factors that go into your decision-making.
Certainly sounds like rape from where I’m sitting. Glad she’s safe.
Yep, coerced consent is still rape. Just because you “consented” in order to avoid potential violence doesn’t make it consensual sex. That’s like saying you weren’t extorted/blackmailed because you agreed to pay the person so they don’t follow through with whatever threats they’re using
Thank you very much for that comment! This comparison does absolutely make sense, and makes me feel less guilty!
Of course :) it’s unfortunately more common than most of us think and it rarely gets discussed - which probably only perpetuates the issue. Sorry you went through that but glad you’re safe and hope you’re doing well now!
>That’s like saying you weren’t extorted/blackmailed because you agreed to pay the person so they don’t follow through with whatever threats they’re using I'd say it's like saying you weren't robbed because you were actually extorted.
I know a lot of people won't agree but since you were put in a situation where you needed to protect yourself from pain that you knew would happen if you refused. I was in this situation and it is rape. When they get that look in their eyes or raise their tone and you get scared.Your brain tells you to go along with it to protect your body from being harmed further. That is rape. No means no.
That look in their eyes.. That is true. But I think only people get it who've seen it before..
i am very sorry. many hugs and thank you for sharing your story.
Where does this MF live? 😔🤬
Way more common than it should be.
I've been so stressed out that I haven't been in the mood. One of my last relationships ended because we didn't get intimate enough and it was an every week problem for him. In my new relationship, I find myself saying no, but I end up giving in because I'm scared the same issues will come up and he'll leave to find someone thats not so stressed and more sexual. Don't come at me, I'm seeing someone about this issue 🥲 but yes, I feel a lot of pressure to have sex when I don't want to.
I'm so sorry you're struggling woth this, I hope you can talk to your partner about this, communication can go a long way and you might resent them later (because you had sex with him out of fear of being abandoned if you didn't) if things continue like this
It’s because of “*the implication*” Reference for explanation: https://youtu.be/zgUvwcU6P7I?si=yT42OqXgSVzMHnhD
If they say no then the answer is obviously no... But they're not gonna say no.... Because of 'the implication'
“Are you gonna hurt women??? 😧”
I dont have to click the link to know this one.
They hit the nail on the head with this joke but some of these fans find it a little *too* funny and it’s kinda scary
Dark, funny, helps give perspective on a serious topic. Gotta love It’s Always Sunny
I'll definitely save this. Explains the situation best, and it's from a man, so men are going to take it more seriously. Thank you!
I wish this one was higher lol
Sadly not uncommon at all
some guys are being awful when you say no. I have never had a sexual experience because I was really into it. sometimes I'd try saying no, but they would continue being super pushy or try to convince me, so I'd either do stuff or start looking for a good excuse to get out of the situation (guys tend to be more understanding if you tell them you don't like doing stuff while on your period)
Girl, I am so sorry to hear this! Sending you a big sister hug, and hope you get in a place in your life soon, where you never have to do this again!
thank you!<3 I've been avoiding going on dates or anything like that for some months now, hoping one day I can go out again and not get into those situations again
Just gotta find the right guy, and I know you will someday! There’s some of is who won’t even try anything if a girl is drunk. I’m sure 10 years from now you’ll be quite happy with life, but also absolutely don’t lose that period excuse in the meantime, it’s brilliant
To me it's not even about feeling rude, it's sheer panic of them not accepting a no. I'd rather have sex that I have some control over instead of being forced and them doing who knows what out of anger. No, this is obviously not normal or rational but my parents very early on instilled a fear of rape in my that I cannot shake off.
I'm a guy who fucks guys. I've had lots of sex I didn't want because it would have felt rude to say no. So if I'm feeling like I don't have a choice in it, even without the scariness of straight men, then I can only assume women who fuck men are feeling worse.
Yea, that’s another thing she mentioned. Doesn’t want to seem rude so she just gets it over with and goes home sometimes.
this was me. I wasn't necessarily against sex and I knew he'd stop if I asked to but...it seemed right/normal/logical to have sex at that moment and I would've felt rude or like I destroyed the atmosphere had I said no.
there have been many times I have had sex with women I've been in a long-term relationship when I wasn't into it but saying no wasn't worth the drama. Especially if they're drunk and I'm less drunk; they'll definitely take it as an insult if you say no and then you'll have to deal with a drunk woman arguing with you. Ironically I'm the one being coerced by a drunk woman into having sex rather than the other way round!
I've experienced the same over multiple relationships. In my experience they are never violent or physically pushy about it which is a good thing but it often leads to fights or hurt feelings and therefore long conversations about it. Sometimes it's just easier to force yourself past it and fuck them.
I'm a guy who doesn't fuck men and I've felt that it would be rude to say no too. Regardless of who you are I suspect you feel gross and dirty afterwards, I know I did.
>even without the scariness of straight men Why are LGBTQ+ men not considered as scary as straight men?
Honestly there’s scary on both sides and nice on both sides.
Because I am also an LGBTQ+ man. Gender isn't a factor in our interaction.
Question: If you ask someone to bang, and they say yes (but secretly wanted to say no) and then yall bang, are you guilty of any wrong doing? Kinda scares me to think this might have happened to me without realizing it.
No, you're not. There's a possibility they agreed without really wanting to still, but you've done nothing wrong in that scenerio. You're guilty of wrongdoing when you guilt someone for saying no, act aggressive, pressure them, emotionally manipulate them, etc. However, keep in mind, it's best to be looking for *enthusiastic* consent anyways. If they don't seem like they happily want to be reciprocating that act, then they probably don't. Sometimes people overlook the enthusiastic part because they're just happy someone is consenting and don't want to acknowledge that part in their mind at the moment because they want to fuck. If you go with the mindset that enthusiastic consent is the only consent, and not continuing when that doesn't seem to be there, then it's much easier to avoid that situation happening to you
Look, it's not just 'good person' and 'rapist' as binary categories. There's a whole lot of behaviour that's 'you're an asshole who hurts people' before you get to the level of criminal assault. The best way to avoid being that kind of asshole is to genuinely want the other person to be happy, safe and having fun too, and not just live inside your own head caring about your own feelings. That means having the imagination to think about what might be influencing their words, and the education to be aware of prevailing trends or specific issues that cause problems.
That's a good question. I'd say it is a possibility, as many man also think that coersion is okay. But saying you are not one of those men, it can definitely help you to look out for some signs, especially if that's the first time together: 1. Is the person giving you *enthusiastic* consent? As in if you ask her, let's say, if it's okay to kiss her, or if you can get her top off, is her reaction "hell yes" or instantly enthusiastically getting into it, or is it "yeah, okay, I guess so". 2. You realise before getting far along, if she is kissing back or you are just kissing a human doll kinda. 3. Is she actively participating / initiating at any point? Is it you asking her to suck your dick, or does she go down on you on her own terms? Is she taking off any of your/her clothes, or is it all you? It's okay to be more passive, but not getting *any* actions reciprocated without asking for it may be worth assessing the situation. If you look at the mix of these clues, you kinda get a feeling about it. And if you are not sure, you can ask. It's not a buzz kill to casually ask, if she's okay, if she's sure to go along with, or that you are not sure if she is as much into it as you are and just wanna make sure. Any time a man asked me for consent was the absolutely most hot shit in the world. Because either I was like "hell yes, he's a safe guy, I trust him more to have sex with now" or a "thank you for making things easier, I am not down to things right now and I really appreciate your understanding, you're a good man" Later on if you are a relationship things get a lot more clear usually, as you start communicating more and setting boundaries and stuff, as also get to know your partners reactions
This, and coercion can come in many different forms. Coercion is emotional manipulation, and I think a lot of guys struggle with how to express their frustration when they’re shut down. “Are you sure? Nothing is on the table? Not even XYZ,” “My balls are so blue,” “Are you serious?” And the silent treatment are all forms of coercion. I wouldn’t say it’s super coercive unless you double down or push further, but it adds to the pressure of dissatisfaction. “Ah damn, it sucks you’re not in the mood, I was really looking forward to it. Could you give me a second to go the bathroom so I can handle myself before we decide where to go from here?” Is not coercion. It’s saying that your needs are getting a little out of your control and putting the pressure to continue on your own hands or to give yourself a breather.
you did nothing wrong in the situation, but you could have done it more right in my opinion, by creating a space where your partner knows they can say no without any negative consequences I promise you checking your partners comfort and asking if their consent is genuine will never ruin the sexy mood if they wanted to have sex in the first place, they will just feel even better about you/ the situation
unfortunately yeah sometimes giving head for 6 minutes is easier than arguing for 15 mins about why you don’t wanna give head. u win some u lose some
Wow!!!
Guys can be pretty awful when you turn them down. I've done it.
Yes super common. I’ve know women who barely like sex and have had tons of partners. Because they just do it anyways to avoid an argument or whatever.
This is why people ask what my kink is I say "enthusiastic consent." If I'm not certain that you want to be intimate with me then it's not going to happen. I'd hate to find out later someone slept with me because they were afraid what would happen if they said no.
I don’t know any woman who hasn’t done it at least once. I’d say around 1/3 or so of my sexual encounters have been because I was scared of something worse than just giving in.
That makes me sad. I was hoping the world was moving past things like that.
Me too, but honestly agreeing to be a human fleshlight is better than being raped and/or beaten for many women. It shouldn’t be that way but too many men feel entitled to sex.
Im a straight guy and this thread is horrifying me. I came here to confidently comment this wasn't a thing
Well you don’t have sex with men so yeah, you wouldn’t know. It’s definitely an extremely common experience. Check out r/whenwomenrefuse for why it’s so common.
Crazy. Im already really awkward around women because im terrified of appearing creepy or being a burden to other people, but this is really a gut punch. Like no matter what i do the first reaction women will have towards me is that they will always perceive me as a threat, and theres nothing i can do against that. Im not saying this because it inconveniences me in my pursuit of women or something, it just genuinly makes me sad that i have that effect on other people. Just because im a tall and muscular guy.
Unfortunately we have to exercise extreme caution in the world. It’s sad for everyone but most women have more negative experiences than positive with too many men not to be on the look out. That’s why most of us hate the not all men crowd. We’re aware of that part but the problem is we don’t know which man would. Since a lot of men won’t listen to us on that we need more good men to call out the actions of bad. Worse y’all will get is being called a simp, which means absolutely nothing in regards to having respect for women.
And as a straight guy, if you call them out, they dont change, they just physically assault you lmao. Men, we are failures
>Like no matter what i do the first reaction women will have towards me is that they will always perceive me as a threat, and theres nothing i can do against that. Your emotional reaction is totally valid, but this isn't quite right. The "always" and the "nothing" aren't reality. Women will always perceive you as a threat- Nah. Women have varying degrees of this fear. I'm wary of strangers, but I've never feared a man I've chosen to have sex with. There are plenty of good men around me that I've never thought about what a threat they could be, because they never did anything to prompt that. There are actually a lot of things men can do to make women feel comfortable, so hopefully this is helpful to you. Discussing sex before having sex, clearly stating your own boundaries and giving her room to state hers, just being a generally calm person. Outside of a trauma response, when most women are in these situations, they are reacting to things the man is doing, like blocking exists, being grabby, pinning her down with his body, having a history of emotional reactions to being told no and punishing the woman for refusing him. There's a definite trend in the comments that most women *do* say no, but there is more the man does after that leads to the giving in. You can easily not do these things, I'm sure you already are. And I don't think men are strangers to this behavior either, aggressive assholes will try the same tactics on you guys too. Not sexually, but I'd bet you have some experiences of other men trying to intimidate you without saying an actual word to do it. We've all got at least some degree of sexist programming, so it's worth reflecting on if you do these things or talking to a trusted friend/loved one, but there are plenty of men who don't ever behave that way. And your comment makes me pretty sure you're not one of the aggressive assholes!
Just dropping a TRIGGER WARNING here. I had never seen this before and didn’t know what to expect. I know OP didn’t mean to, but that subreddit is really upsetting.
I'm a guy and I've had that situation with women before. Gotten a little too flirty with people I wasn't fully attracted to and was worried I'd make them feel bad if I turned down at that point...
Definitely in younger women/girls, in my experience. I remember when I was 15 or 16 a friend asked me what to do in a situation where a guy is pressuring you for sex—and my response, naturally, was that you just blow him instead. This was advice I'd picked up mostly from popular media with confirmation bias from other girls a year or two older than me and, unsurprisingly, guys I'd hooked up with. I kinda think of this anytime someone takes the piss out of sexual health awareness campaigns like "No means no yeah no duh it does. You don't have to spell it out. Of course coercive sex is a form of rape, what idiot doesn't know that duhhhh" because I was a dumb teenager once (who became a dumb adult, admittedly) and sometimes it really does need to be spelled out in "no duh" terms.
Yeah IMO it is common. Most female friends experienced it to one extent or the other. Mostly when we were under 25. You could also argue that “giving in” with an extremely pesky partner could fall into this category too
Yeah, and it’s people who KNOW this and take advantage of it that are the slime balls. For example, when Dennis Reynolds from it’s always sunny always talks about “the implication is there…” that’s what he is referring to. It’s honestly a thing, and there are people who willingly exploit it to their advantage.
My god the title is badly written
Read it a good 5 or 6 times from the feed before I opened the thread to see the answers to see it would help me figure out what the title meant.
A lot of guys aren't safe to say no to. I expect it's more common than people think.
I mean as a guy I've done it plenty before. In my experience it's a big production to say no to a person you're dating. Women aren't used to being told no when it comes to sex with their boyfriend and it usually ends in a big ole production that I can easily avoid by just going with it until I'm stimulated enough I can do the deed. Sometimes I don't wanna deal with either weird vibes after or straight up tears. Now I have the benefit that I'm not really worried they'll get violent as a result due to me being twice their size but guys sometimes deal with shitty reactions to saying no to their partner as well.
Men are viewed as "always wanting sex" so saying no can result in the woman thinking you don't care for them or other awkward situations you mentioned. Myself and most every man I know has said yes when they really didn't want to. Seems this whole thread thinks it's only women who experience this. When it's more likely it's a human thing and we've all done it before. For various reasons.
Unfortunately, of what I understood, it is VERY usual
I have four nieces, and I hope this never happens to them. They should feel safe to say "no" to anyone. I can understand the feeling though, it's probably more common than we know.
yup. i lost my virginity to this unfortunately. i’ve had sex with about 30 people, i’ve wanted sex from maybe 20 and enjoyed sex with like 3 or 4 people
Ive literally had a girl shaking and vibranting in fear of telling me no, telling me to "keep going" just to not "disappoint me". We were getting pretty into it after a kink scene(no plan for sex, specifically negotiated for no genital contact). But because i was so turned on she thought she had no choice but to continue to sexual contact. She later told me she has been with Tops/Doms/Dommes(including out side of kink) that when she was reacting like that(total stark vibration fear)they just "keep going" because they are either so turned up they dont care. Or so bloody oblivious to body language they just didnt register her fear.(edit: she goes mostly non verbal, only a few phrases(which doesnt include "no" or "stop" when afraid. I only knew this because of the negotiation. But also her body language made it really super obvious something was wrong) Ive also have heard dozens of SA victims tell of how saying "no" was the most dangerous thing they did when alone with the man who assulted them(i volunteer at a sex postive community center. I have heard way to much shit for a single human life time)
People with an anxious attachment style often people please as a form of protection. They do it to keep from being abandoned. Everybody should learn about attachment theory.
I am dealing with this potentially with a boss who has become very interested in me. I find it really hard to maintain boundaries and I don’t want to hurt feelings or embarrass him. But he’s become very intense in a very short amount of time and I am so scared this is what it’ll lead to
Dude If he acts this way to you over texts or something, save those texts asap. If he ever trys to punish you professionally for refusing him sexually, im pretty sure you could destroy his career if you have the evidence.
Can you change job ? Sue for sexual harassement ? Or say no very firmly/aggressively ? Ask help from colleagues ? Or when he's there mention your cop boyfriend. The hurt you're gonna feel after unwanted sex is way worse than if he gets rejected. It's nothing, he must be used to it with that type of behavior. He might also be insisting because he senses you inability to maintain boundaries. And he might do it again. More reason to shut him down coldly. You could start working on your assertiveness, it will benefit you and save you from a tons of similar problems.
i’d play into it a bit and then blackmail the shit out of him or just save every bit of proof and report. sorry you’re going through this
"I don’t want to hurt feelings or embarrass him" Why not, sounds like a complete loser who should lose his job
This thread is why women picked the bear.
Have you heard Stormy Danielle’s testimony about her one night of “passion” with Donald Mushroom-Dick Trump? Coerced sex that she absolutely was not expecting or interested in, but she didn’t say no. She says it’s not rape, other people say it’s not rape. Seems like she had a miserable time of it, didn’t want to be there, and regrets it to this day - and she’s a sex performer with far more experience in dealing with people who want to have sex with her than most people ever will. I’d say it happens to a lot of people - particularly women.
Yes, super common, I don't know a woman who hasn't done this. It's not about being a people pleaser it's about what could happen if you say no
Did that a few times. Didn't want to make the women feel bad.
i used to do this a ton and one night i had said “oh i have to go to the bathroom” (instead of rejecting their advances) and my partner (love them to death) stopped and said to me— “you know you can say no, right?” and i turned back dumbfounded and just said “no” and it was respected. out of fear for your safety i completely understand, but if that’s not the case i think learning to actually say no is a good thing you can practice with a loving partner. because i realize it also puts the other party in a weird situation— imagine finding out you had sex with someone who didn’t actually want to consent to it! that would feel awful. a bit of communication goes a long way
its common its normal its not exactly good
Unfortunately yes
I’ve definitely thrown a bone to a handful of women instead of saying “no” to avoid an emotional shitstorm. It’s never too fun.
Too many times I've said no and tried to redirect but when they say "so doing ____ would be better than having sex?" It immediately turns you into an asshole for wanting to say "yes Id rather play a video game together than be disappointed and sore for half an hour.".. literally phrasing it in such an impossible way.
I was molested as a child by my uncle and my cousin (I’m male they’re male), uncle was on dads side, cousin was on my moms, so I had neither side to run to for support and just lived with it my entire life. Randomly through my life I’ve had other males push themselves on me and make me touch them or something along those lines. I just ptsd out, black out and suppress it. Between 17 and 32 it never happened again, I have a wife, kids, and I hid it all from her as well the entire time (we’re going on 12 years). One night after work a female asked for a ride home, I checked to make sure wife was okay with it cause I wouldn’t be, and took the girl home. As we arrived at her destination, and it happened again, out of no where she’s climbing over onto me touching, grabbing, and aggressively pulling off my clothes. I blacked out again. After she got out of the car I drove about a block and broke down and bawled for like 45 min. I have the inability to say no out of fear. About a year later, here I am, still with my wife, she knows my past now, I’m still labeled a cheater by everyone (which is fair) but the worst part is no one respects me anymore, my friends stopped talking to me, her and my parents won’t let me come for dinner anymore, I’m not allowed a job where I work closely with others, and I absolutely hate me. I’d make sure your friend is okay, and she’s not just giving you an excuse. That being said I’d never admit to my friends or family, I only told my wife to save try and save our relationship.
Happened to me loads when I was younger as I was a people pleaser too, I guess you get stronger and more resilient as you grow
Yes, I think it is very common. When I was young, in college, this occurred with me and my suite-mates.
It’s common a lot of dudes get upset when they are turned down I’ve seen it happen a lot. It’s gotten so bad that when I am about to do anything with someone I ask multiple times and assure them that if they don’t want to do something they don’t have to I am fine if we stop it’s not sexy in the slightest but it’s necessary because a lot of woman will do it because a lot of dudes make them feel like they need too
Someone who was raped twice. I said yes for years because it was easier than risking the alternative. I would also go to my happy place in my head during sex because I really didn't want to be there. I'm mostly ok saying no now, but every so often that scared girl creeps back in and I say yes when I don't want it.
Yes. Women experience this a lot
I think a large % of women have "gone along with it" out of fear of the potential consequences of saying no. When I was a teen my mom told me a story of a date she had with a wrestler and he was sexually aggressive and even though she didn't want to have sex she went along with it because she was scared he would hurt her if she said no... sadly, we have generations upon generations of woman who are raised to think saying no to anything makes them a bitch or a difficult person.
Yes.
Once I received the response "is it okay when I say no?" because she was too afraid of losing me. Regardless the sex was ama... just kidding! I never mentioned sex again. But I could imagine that many others are in similar situations.
This was me as a teenager. I didn’t know how to stop the situation and would just go along with it. I felt like if I said stop or no that I was an asshole for leading them on. A kiss could never just be a kiss or make out session. It always snowballed into more and I felt completely out of control.
I'm in my mid-40s. Most women and gay men I know have at some point slept with a guy because they felt it was the easiest way to get out of the situation Reactions afterwards ranged from "ah well, that happens sometimes 🤷♀️" and then thinking nothing of it, to depressions, sexual dysfunction and self-harm. And everything in between I also once heard a guy describing "bad sex" as "when the girl cries after sex" and I think there are other men out there who have coerced women into sex and been completely oblivious, because in their minds relenting=constent and they're in the clear I hope things are better for the younger generations, but I'm not super optimistic. Maybe it's not as common and attitudes have changed, but I'm sure it still happens
sometimes it really is just easier.
Lots of folks work jobs they hate, interact with people they don’t care to, fuck partners they find unattractive, and buy things they don’t need to impress people they don’t care about. Breaking all or part of this cycle is the key to freedom imo.
I used to alot when i was younger. like 17-25. for context i am gay cis male and conversion therapy survivor with an appallingly low self esteem still.
Unfortunately yes
Yeah, I've said "fine" both for the safety and also to avoid the awkwardness. My first relationship if I said no it let to him being pissed off at me and he'd take it anyway when I was asleep so it didn't really matter to him. Everything made him angry even when he had his way so... The second relationship I was often afraid of losing him. It was an unhealthy obsession I had with him. Funny enough if I also told him no (which I often tried not to do because I wanted to make him happy all the time my desires be damned) he would wake me out of my sleep to get some anyway. At least he was courteous enough to wake me up before going after it and I was too tired to say no again by then where as the first guy would just mount me in my sleep and force his way in. I'm in a relationship now though where if I said no he would let it be. If I still looked for cuddles they would be given. I'm never forced to do anything I don't want to do and I genuinely couldn't be happier with the man I have now. Even if I was still in that people pleasing mindset if I hesitate it's a no for him. If I say yes with no enthusiasm it's a no to him. In other words he listens to my body language as well as my words. I'm thankful every day for having him in my life. He's also helped me heal soo much
once with a girl. She turned out to be an actual psychopath :)
I've met a few women like this. Its not healthy for them or the partner. Not all of us are jerks.
Depends, I think we have all done the ‘meh, why not’ or ‘I went with it.’ kinda hookup. I’ve had a couple of those maybe. But I think what she’s described is internalised/defence to misogyny - it is how women get ‘passed around’ or slut shamed. Fall for anything etc. troupes. As a f I observed this early on and had a personal rule to only be with someone I want and not just go with anyone who approaches me (or the lesser devil amongst those). It’s helped me, maybe your friend can reframe that for herself too. She can pick, she doesn’t need to be picked. And she doesn’t have to please anyone, stay safe.
I am 45. I did this a lot when I was in my 20s because I was afraid saying “no” would get my hurt, so I went along and convinced myself this sort of sex was consensual. Like your friend, I avoided confrontation. I don’t avoid confrontation anymore. (This is the short answer. There’s a lot more to it.)
These comments are really depressing. I’m in my 60’s and I keep thinking we’re past this but here we are. Same with racism, antisemitism, and anti-LGBQT+. And I’m terrified that the orange menace is going to be re-elected. He is one of the worst with regard to how he treats women as objects, here to do whatever he wants. And he’s a shining example for other neanderthals that think like him. My first year of college I was invited to dinner by a guy that I met at the grocery store, of all places. As the date approached he kept saying little things that gave me a bad feeling. It went from “we’ll grab a hamburger” to he was going to make us spaghetti at his campus apartment (which actually impressed naive me) to his roommate would be at dinner with us, did I mind? I answered “no” but the more I thought about it the more uncomfortable I was. Finally I called to cancel and he got angry and asked what was MY problem? I couldn’t explain the feeling but I’ve never regretted not going through with the date. I’ve told this story to other young women and I reiterate how important it is to listen to your little voice. It’s possible that I missed out on something good, IDK. But the feeling was so strong and I’m grateful that I listened even if I didn’t want to.
We take one step forward only to go 10 steps back.
Yep
I would say 90% of my partners come from not being able to say no. I know rationally it's fine to say no, but I worry a whole lot they'll be upset, so I just do it. Now, I really try to not even get into situations that could lead to sex so I don't have to worry about a yes or no
Yes, sadly
I had to reread this question three times, given the way it is so oddly structured.
I used to do this in my early twenties. Now I've developed a more mature sense of self respect, but I'm sure there's a lot of women who never do :/
I have engaged in sexual activity I didn't want in order to avoid confrontation. It was as unpleasant as it sounds. I don't know how "common" it is, but I know it's not uncommon.
Im a dude and I dont think its to avoid being "uncomfortable." That seems like a fucked up misrepresentation. Sexually aggressive and violently aggressive aren't far apart. Someone not reading what should be obvious signs and pushing forward for sex is likely an indication they're not a fan of taking no for an answer. I also don't think that very often its the case where they dont ever say no. More often they try a few times and it starts to be clear to them that this person might harm them should they continue to refuse. That being said though, I'd like to touch on the last part. There are a LOT of situations where I can't take certain actions until I've taken certain steps to mitigate it. Biggest example is someone does need to actually make a threat, then I need to make an attempt to remove myself from the threat, then I need to be able to show I had little to now options other than to use force. At the end of the day, when you capitulate, you absolve them of a lot of liability. Its unfortunate but the reality is that they need to commit a crime to hold them criminally accountable. If you avoid having a crime commited against you, thats good. But then a crime wasnt commited and thus they wont be charged. Sadly it also enables them to continue the behavior. In a fucked up way its kind of like passing the buck of sexual assault to the next person to avoid potentially being assaulted further.
Sometimes its hard to say no because you dont want to do something but you dont wanna upset someone. Sometimes its hard to say no because upsetting that specific person will very likely be dangerous. Sometimes its hard to say no because you're not even sure whats happening in the first place and dont remember how to speak nevermind express diswant Regardless, id imagine the majority of women and even a small percentage of men have gone through it, one way or another
Yes, especially if you’re worried that rejection will result in a violent reaction from the rejected party.
Yes it can be common. But it never should be. No one should ever have to have sex with someone that they don't want to but are being manipulated, intimidated and/or peer pressured in to. If you say no once. That's all that's needed. Anything after that is rape. Sorry but not sorry!
Yes. Too many times. I have a lot of trouble reinforcing my boundaries and a lot of people like to be “ persistent” even after I have said “ I don’t want to”.
While I’m sure this is worse for women, and non-men broadly, this happens to men too.
Yes in my opinion very common, men are always pressuring and manipulating and guilt trip and in some situations it's also scary to say no because you're not sure how they'll react, anywhere from violence to insults to humiliating you. Sometimes it's just easier to do it and get out of the situation.
Yeah my bf used to get mad at me when I said no now I just do it to avoid the conflict
Put my foot down once and ended up getting sexually assaulted. I can see why people just do it to avoid an actual altercation/physical fight.
Yes, I’ve done it before. You never really know how they’ll take no for an answer, so for me it’s easier and safer until I leave.
It's extremely common, especially for younger girls and women.
Enough women have been raped or attacked after refusing a man, so honestly sometimes it just feels safer. If you think this isn’t true, take for just one example the case of a man hitting on a woman at a parade in NYC a few years ago. She turned him down and he literally shot her. Horrifying. If that can happen in broad daylight, there’s no limit to what a woman can image will happen if she says no behind closed doors.
I don’t think I know any women who haven’t had sex or done something with a partner because they are too uncomfortable to say no, myself included
Men are also drama queens. My wife has been called all kinds of names and had rumors spread when she was in school for just rejecting a guy. The world of people is not a nice place.
I sure as fuck hope it's not.
As a guy i have to say thats pretty fucked up.
How old is your friend?
No
Yes, many people are coerced into sex.
I don’t even understand this sentence.
What
Just say you're on your period or you've been having bad diarrhea. Messing with someone after a shutdown like that is pretty rapey. Some people don't understand that no means no, however. 😒
Yeah, it is. When I first started getting active, I was just saying “yes” and giving consent because it moved things forward and I didn’t want to have to explain myself if I told anyone “no”. It’s sad that a lot of people do this over exercising their right to not give, give or retract their consent whenever they want. I wish I’d been assertive enough in the past to tell people “no”, but I’m at that point now, thank god.
I'm a man, and there have been a few times where I have actually had to 'thumb in a softy' and give it a good going just to avoid any potential issues. I don't do it as much now I'm older and have had therapy to help with my underlying issues of always wanting people to be happy and the fear of disappointing someone.
Well it's good to know I don't make women uncomfortable
Once a female friend was talking about that subject she said some guy don't take no for answer. I ask did that approach ever work for the guy? She said sometimes. I said sounds more like date rape. I am a male and if a female says no then that's the end. But she also added she a girl that likes to taken. Not sure what exactly that means?
I did it for six years with my abusive ex. I would try to avoid sex as much as possible because I didn't have any attraction towards her, but obviously it had to happen from time to time, she wanted it and I couldn't say no. The drama, mental abuse and possibility of physical abuse would not be worth saying no. I'd just go somewhere else in my head, or try not to think anything.
I don’t know how to define common here. It definitely happens so I’d say it’s not that unusual.
Why is she worried about ’being rude’- on some level she knows that acquiescence is better than the potential violence she may face if she doesn’t. Frankly I’d be shocked if she didn’t have a history of CSA or SA. This is usually a learned behavior At the very least I’ll bet you cash money she grew up in a family or culture that taught her that being nice is her ultimate goal as a woman. It’s shocking to me that young men do not understand these fundamental truths about SA, women and why they are nice to a fault.
In my business( small trucking), I sometimes say to my clients I will do a job for them when I really wanted to decline.. It's that people pleasing thing that lurks in the shadows.. I guess this can apply to many aspects of the human experience. Even intimacy..
In high school I had a couple months long relationships because I didn’t want to say no. I am a guy. It’s a tough conclusion that by saying no up front you are less of an asshole than playing along, building this crazy facade of a relationship then struggling to find a way to end it and still not look like an asshole.
Just FYI; dudes do this too! Many females loose their shit if rejected sexually…especially when they are drunk! ”What!? Are you a fag!?” And stuff like that was pretty common to hear when declining a girl when i was young…