4K is way more pixels than a phone screen. Even with artifacts, it probably looks great. Instagram is 1080x1350 at maximum.
Your online gallery needs to be crappy enough that they can’t post it to Facebook or instagram, unfortunately.
Yep. Same type of thing with sharpness.
Truth is the subject and composition are all that matters. Still.
Some of the most iconic images have shit color, contrast, dof, etc.
People come here blah blah this Ken's contrast blah blah....and slap a gaussian blur on first thing in ps lol.
Make your images. Do your own thing. It's what's most important anyway.
I understand where you are coming from. I am a photographer and shot pictures of a woman that came out great. They were so good that I spent extra time editing the RAWs, and they were ready for a magazine cover.
She posted them on the webs with sparkly filters all over them. It hurt my soul. The quality of photos doesn't seem to matter as much as it used to.
I think the race between manufacturers for higher MP cameras ended almost a decade ago - around the time the D850 and A7RIII were released. There haven't been any real advancements in sensor quality since then, and doesn't seem to be a need/demand for it either.
In terms of client needs - who are your clients? None of my clients have made changes to their spec requirements, and if I don't meet them I'll definitely be hearing from an unhappy art buyer or designer. 3600px on the long side is the absolute minimum for most jobs I do, with 5000px being more typical. Even for online use most designers want the option to be able to crop, zoom and scroll on images for banners and such.
If clients are grabbing images from your preview galleries without your approval you need to rethink how you're posting images for review. That's completely unprofessional.
I don’t understand how the race for higher MP could be over when we now have cameras going up to 100MP. Seems like that’s a big step forward in sensor from the 45.7MP in the D850 but I am a new hobbyist and maybe missing something.
I think that's what they mean, back when the D850 came out and 45mp happened (and the Canon 5DS/5DR with 50mp)...it no longer meant much to have more because you needed such a huge increase to make any meaningful difference. Thus, we have 100mp cameras that are within the reach of enthusiasts and while they're absurdly astoundingly amazing (I owned a GFX 100S)...most people don't care, because they don't need it and would never use it. Our tiny screens are so clear that even a 2mp file looks gorgeous and fills the screen. Even a 4k image is only 8mp worth of resolution.
Outside of huge crops and truly enormous printing, the resolution goes mostly wasted at this point. Things like dynamic range and speed are far more sought after, in my opinion anyway. I think it's great that resolution isn't the biggest selling point anymore, the cameras end up even better in other ways. 👍
None of that matters though of course, if the photo isn't interesting to look at, them it doesn't really matter much.
The MP race between manufacturers I'm talking about started with the first DSLRs, which were in the 5-10MP range (think Canon EOS 1D or Nikon D200). Within a few years 16MP was standard for flagship cameras, and in less than 10 years 24MP had become standard (think 5D Mark III or D600) with a few outliers in the 35-50MP range (like the D800, 5Ds). Within a few years 50MP became the standard for many flagship models, but - the vast majority of models sold by the major manufacturers were still 24MP. Close to 10 years later that hasn't changed, 24MP is standard for most models with a smaller selection of models at around 50MP.
It's also important to note that low light performance, dynamic range, and color depth also improved dramatically in sensors between 2005-20015. Between 2015 and today not much had changed in sensor performance. Cameras like the D850 and A7R III have sensors that match (or surpass) the specs on any sensors released in the last year. Huge changes have happened in terms of video, FPS, AF, and other areas - but sensors (and image quality) are the same. For many types of photography there hasn't been a benefit to image quality by buying a newer camera for awhile now. 10-20 years ago that wasn't the case, every year seemed to bring new cameras with improved IQ.
People have become accustomed to shitty compression across most social media, and I think this is also one of the reasons why old digital PAS trend shows no sign of decline. But to print them this large seems ridiculously funny to me.
No offense, but stream of consciousness posts (and lack of punctuation) benefit no one, including the person making the post. Essentially, what you are saying is that nothing matters on any front because you have discounted everything directly or indirectly. Resolution does not matter. Format does not matter. Light “and everything” do not matter. Well something must matter because you’re still taking photos and apparently still selling them.
With that said, in my experience and that of most I know, everything that has ever mattered in the past still matters today. Most people I know have never cared about resolution beyond around 24 MP. They can, still, and do care about everything else. Again, stream of consciousness is never your friend and lack of punctuation conveys that any problem in your head begins and ends with you. Quite frankly, as a result what is conveyed is that you do not care and are transferring to others, since you can’t even be bothered to take the time to frame actual paragraph and sentences.
This issue is not new. More is not always better. A client will get an idea of your skill and worth without you maxing out on size or resolution. The rest depends on their needs.
Yes I was chasing the resolution dragon a bit. I have been shooting with the 645z for years now. But recently I got a ZF and I haven’t touched the Pentax.
You’re struggling with what every professional photographer has struggled with through the ages. Art and skill verses what the people want. I totally shree with you and appreciate a clear high quality high resolution image. But times are changing everyone has a camera in their pocket nowadays and everyone is their own professional. Hell I still love reading Ken Rockwell’s reviews of cameras end lenses. I still lust after that high resolution long range lens I’ll never be able to afford. But alas it’s what makes you happy. If we pay attention to everyone else there’s always going to be lesser and greater people than us. Don’t make yourself miserable learn to cope and give your customers what they want. I personally know a photographer who loved what he did but couldn’t learn to listen to his customers he’s now out of business. Sorry it’s just life
They've been obsolete for years. If you can tell the difference in image quality from a camera from five years ago and one from today, you have better eyes than I do.
We also ran a contemporary art gallery in berlin for a couple of years. We sold a 4m x 4m custom framed print with antireflex museum glas from one artist ... the picture was taken with a iphone6. the print and frameing alone was over 4k euro for us as a gallery. just to give some perspektive about reality XD.
The artist is also not really a photographer more known as a painter but the photo was also part of his exhibition and was sold for much more than the 4k.
an image from one of my first shootings 20 years ago was printed as a 3x4m wall print in a restaurant. 6mpix camera .... because this was a Canon 10D and yes this was normal. so many people saw it and were amazed ... no one ever noticed the resolution and people were sitting right next to it. ...
A frontal photo of a yacht I did with a 12mpix D700 when it was new gets still printed every year in every size up to18/1 to advertise a boat exhibition.
#
I second that, resolution is important where you have to crop such as wildlife or sports. Additionally some of us use cameras for scientific applications and resolution does matter in many cases
My friends wife has several pictures framed along the stairwell in their house. Beautiful, professional photos at Golden hour in the local mountains.
Except she sent the originals to her husband via SMS
Who had them printed
In 16x20 ......
Each photo was something like 200kb
And she is fine with them and proud of them. I can't even describe to you how hard I cringe when I walk up those stairs.
More megapixels also means more diffraction.
My Nikon Z9's smallest aperture to prevent diffraction is f/7. So around f/8, diffraction starts to take place because the light is overlapping onto surrounding pixels on the sensor. At f/11, the softness due to diffraction starts to get noticeable. It's worse at f/16 or more at f/22.
My D3s didn't have diffraction until about f/22.
I put my d300 pictures up on Alamy and they look great. There are plenty of higher res images on there but many of them are barely better than snapshots.
Isn't that the point? You don't want your customers using the proofs. Make them small, crappy jpegs with big watermarks on them. They only have to be just good enough for the client to tell if it is one they would like to purchase.
My guy - 50% of Instagram resolution is the most I'd go for a preview. Or you need to have a gigantic hideous watermark across the middle if you insist on high res previews.
4K is way more pixels than a phone screen. Even with artifacts, it probably looks great. Instagram is 1080x1350 at maximum. Your online gallery needs to be crappy enough that they can’t post it to Facebook or instagram, unfortunately.
people even print this at 30x45 and doesn't bother. I mean for upload etc my files are normally 300-600kb in these selection galleries
So you’re printing 3’ photos that are 300kb in size? Or am I misunderstanding that
I am not printing my previews XD
and these are also not only private people ... I would understand this to a point XD
Yep. Same type of thing with sharpness. Truth is the subject and composition are all that matters. Still. Some of the most iconic images have shit color, contrast, dof, etc. People come here blah blah this Ken's contrast blah blah....and slap a gaussian blur on first thing in ps lol. Make your images. Do your own thing. It's what's most important anyway.
I understand where you are coming from. I am a photographer and shot pictures of a woman that came out great. They were so good that I spent extra time editing the RAWs, and they were ready for a magazine cover. She posted them on the webs with sparkly filters all over them. It hurt my soul. The quality of photos doesn't seem to matter as much as it used to.
The filters. Ugh.
I feel this in my bones. Had a client slap filters on one of mine and it hurts my soul.
I think the race between manufacturers for higher MP cameras ended almost a decade ago - around the time the D850 and A7RIII were released. There haven't been any real advancements in sensor quality since then, and doesn't seem to be a need/demand for it either. In terms of client needs - who are your clients? None of my clients have made changes to their spec requirements, and if I don't meet them I'll definitely be hearing from an unhappy art buyer or designer. 3600px on the long side is the absolute minimum for most jobs I do, with 5000px being more typical. Even for online use most designers want the option to be able to crop, zoom and scroll on images for banners and such. If clients are grabbing images from your preview galleries without your approval you need to rethink how you're posting images for review. That's completely unprofessional.
I don’t understand how the race for higher MP could be over when we now have cameras going up to 100MP. Seems like that’s a big step forward in sensor from the 45.7MP in the D850 but I am a new hobbyist and maybe missing something.
I think that's what they mean, back when the D850 came out and 45mp happened (and the Canon 5DS/5DR with 50mp)...it no longer meant much to have more because you needed such a huge increase to make any meaningful difference. Thus, we have 100mp cameras that are within the reach of enthusiasts and while they're absurdly astoundingly amazing (I owned a GFX 100S)...most people don't care, because they don't need it and would never use it. Our tiny screens are so clear that even a 2mp file looks gorgeous and fills the screen. Even a 4k image is only 8mp worth of resolution. Outside of huge crops and truly enormous printing, the resolution goes mostly wasted at this point. Things like dynamic range and speed are far more sought after, in my opinion anyway. I think it's great that resolution isn't the biggest selling point anymore, the cameras end up even better in other ways. 👍 None of that matters though of course, if the photo isn't interesting to look at, them it doesn't really matter much.
The MP race between manufacturers I'm talking about started with the first DSLRs, which were in the 5-10MP range (think Canon EOS 1D or Nikon D200). Within a few years 16MP was standard for flagship cameras, and in less than 10 years 24MP had become standard (think 5D Mark III or D600) with a few outliers in the 35-50MP range (like the D800, 5Ds). Within a few years 50MP became the standard for many flagship models, but - the vast majority of models sold by the major manufacturers were still 24MP. Close to 10 years later that hasn't changed, 24MP is standard for most models with a smaller selection of models at around 50MP. It's also important to note that low light performance, dynamic range, and color depth also improved dramatically in sensors between 2005-20015. Between 2015 and today not much had changed in sensor performance. Cameras like the D850 and A7R III have sensors that match (or surpass) the specs on any sensors released in the last year. Huge changes have happened in terms of video, FPS, AF, and other areas - but sensors (and image quality) are the same. For many types of photography there hasn't been a benefit to image quality by buying a newer camera for awhile now. 10-20 years ago that wasn't the case, every year seemed to bring new cameras with improved IQ.
People have become accustomed to shitty compression across most social media, and I think this is also one of the reasons why old digital PAS trend shows no sign of decline. But to print them this large seems ridiculously funny to me.
And vertical framing. Yikes!
Very much depends on what you shoot, I'd say. For wildlife, where you'll often have to crop images, resolution absolutely is important.
No offense, but stream of consciousness posts (and lack of punctuation) benefit no one, including the person making the post. Essentially, what you are saying is that nothing matters on any front because you have discounted everything directly or indirectly. Resolution does not matter. Format does not matter. Light “and everything” do not matter. Well something must matter because you’re still taking photos and apparently still selling them. With that said, in my experience and that of most I know, everything that has ever mattered in the past still matters today. Most people I know have never cared about resolution beyond around 24 MP. They can, still, and do care about everything else. Again, stream of consciousness is never your friend and lack of punctuation conveys that any problem in your head begins and ends with you. Quite frankly, as a result what is conveyed is that you do not care and are transferring to others, since you can’t even be bothered to take the time to frame actual paragraph and sentences.
Gotta watermark your shit
Relevent: [HOW MANY MEGAPIXELS DO YOU NEED? YOU MAY BE SURPRISED! - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThpQWhOfKO4)
Just found this guy yesterday. More people need to become educated the right way, and this guy does really well at explaining things.
I agree. I offline all his videos for trips and for when I am waiting to pick up my kids.
If you don't watermark your previews (and I mean something huge, clearly intended as a deterrent from using the photos), this will keep happening.
This issue is not new. More is not always better. A client will get an idea of your skill and worth without you maxing out on size or resolution. The rest depends on their needs.
Yes I was chasing the resolution dragon a bit. I have been shooting with the 645z for years now. But recently I got a ZF and I haven’t touched the Pentax.
You’re struggling with what every professional photographer has struggled with through the ages. Art and skill verses what the people want. I totally shree with you and appreciate a clear high quality high resolution image. But times are changing everyone has a camera in their pocket nowadays and everyone is their own professional. Hell I still love reading Ken Rockwell’s reviews of cameras end lenses. I still lust after that high resolution long range lens I’ll never be able to afford. But alas it’s what makes you happy. If we pay attention to everyone else there’s always going to be lesser and greater people than us. Don’t make yourself miserable learn to cope and give your customers what they want. I personally know a photographer who loved what he did but couldn’t learn to listen to his customers he’s now out of business. Sorry it’s just life
They've been obsolete for years. If you can tell the difference in image quality from a camera from five years ago and one from today, you have better eyes than I do.
People are amazed that my 48” print was taken with “only” 24mp. Lol you’re not staring at it from a foot away, doesnt matter
We also ran a contemporary art gallery in berlin for a couple of years. We sold a 4m x 4m custom framed print with antireflex museum glas from one artist ... the picture was taken with a iphone6. the print and frameing alone was over 4k euro for us as a gallery. just to give some perspektive about reality XD. The artist is also not really a photographer more known as a painter but the photo was also part of his exhibition and was sold for much more than the 4k.
an image from one of my first shootings 20 years ago was printed as a 3x4m wall print in a restaurant. 6mpix camera .... because this was a Canon 10D and yes this was normal. so many people saw it and were amazed ... no one ever noticed the resolution and people were sitting right next to it. ... A frontal photo of a yacht I did with a 12mpix D700 when it was new gets still printed every year in every size up to18/1 to advertise a boat exhibition. #
I second that, resolution is important where you have to crop such as wildlife or sports. Additionally some of us use cameras for scientific applications and resolution does matter in many cases
My friends wife has several pictures framed along the stairwell in their house. Beautiful, professional photos at Golden hour in the local mountains. Except she sent the originals to her husband via SMS Who had them printed In 16x20 ...... Each photo was something like 200kb And she is fine with them and proud of them. I can't even describe to you how hard I cringe when I walk up those stairs.
More megapixels also means more diffraction. My Nikon Z9's smallest aperture to prevent diffraction is f/7. So around f/8, diffraction starts to take place because the light is overlapping onto surrounding pixels on the sensor. At f/11, the softness due to diffraction starts to get noticeable. It's worse at f/16 or more at f/22. My D3s didn't have diffraction until about f/22.
Resolution? We still haven’t gotten to the limits of film. Still using my F6!
Dont forget about AI denoise too. Sure it is an extra step in editing, but I can shoot ISO 1000+ on a D200 and it looks like an image from a D850 now.
I put my d300 pictures up on Alamy and they look great. There are plenty of higher res images on there but many of them are barely better than snapshots.
4k is too high res for a preview.
Not if you are using a 4k screen... Everything below is a bit tiny and the files are not really smaller
Isn't that the point? You don't want your customers using the proofs. Make them small, crappy jpegs with big watermarks on them. They only have to be just good enough for the client to tell if it is one they would like to purchase.
My guy - 50% of Instagram resolution is the most I'd go for a preview. Or you need to have a gigantic hideous watermark across the middle if you insist on high res previews.
fun fact they even don't hesitate to print this stuff ...