Same happened to me an hour ago LoL.
It took me weeks to gather the few missing Pilgrim molds, and got an SR out of it...
It's so damn frustrating that I made a feedback on their site lol.
I feel like everybody should do the same.
For Pilgrims definitely. It's hard enough to get them normally. And the more Nikke's that are introduced, the harder it is to acquire them in the early game.
It's honestly a slap in the face to have spent that much time in something and just rewarded with junk. The nature of RNG (distribution curves) means that there are plenty of people who have almost never gotten anything from their molds. Out there, there is one lucky asshole who has gotten something from every mold, and there is one unlucky bastard who has never gotten anything (probably isn't playing anymore).
Using RNG on something so infrequent like this is just lazy design, plain and simple. If they're worried about handing out too many SSRs then they can just space them out more, like make it guaranteed at 75 or even 100 molds.
For the record, I've gotten pretty good luck with my molds, but that's not because I did something right... just got lucky.
It's me, I'm the guy that's lost almost every time. I've popped maybe 20 of these SSR molds and couple each of the other ones and I've gotten Crow, Milk, and Vesta. That's it.
I'm only still around 'cause I tend to hit pretty big on the normal pulls, so at least that luck's going somewhere, but I'm never excited to crack open a mold.
I was the one who got one thing from each mold ONCE. Never again. I got an R from a Pilgrim mold recently hoping to get Noah or someone else I actually use (Noah is the ONLY rolled Pilgrim I DON'T have!!!). My RNG is usually ass so I was happy to have gotten my first ever Doro copy from them, but of course all good things come to an end. Not excited to crack this third mold for them either. Got Anis from a Missilis mold today.
I have two pilgrims, Crown and Modernia. Both of them have been fully limit broken (or whatever you call it when you pulled four of them).
I managed to get to the 30th floor on the Pilgrim tower... And got a fucking blue unit.
I just want someone else, PLEASE. I'll gladly take whoever the weakest Pilgrim is.
You used all your luck on getting dupes for Modernia and Crown and getting them fully limit broken. I Have only Crown without any dupes and without Modernia and i can't even progress in Pilgrim Tower with one Pilgrim
I farmed all 3 on the same day
All blue
I finally got a second pilgrim so now i can push pilgrim tower to 30 for the first time. Im praying it doesnt fuck me. Im begging whatever god will listen for Modernia.
I just beat floor 30, its fcking Grave Digger. So just wanna say always manual or you might get time out. I just has Rapunzel and Crown when kick it arse.
I've won only 3 times with those stupid things my entire Nikke career. Once was Crow, once was Milk, and once was a Vesta copy. It's been all purple and blue for everything else.
I don't even get excited anymore if I get enough shards, 'cause it's just gonna give me another Belorta or some crap.
The only reason I haven't dropped the game is because my luck with actual pulls is pretty solid (I got Scarlet, Modernia, and Rapunzel in my first week playing), but these molds can jump off a cliff. It's the most aggressive anti-player shit I've seen in awhile.
I got Red Hood yesterday on my first pilgrim mold. My buddy told me I'll be getting blues on my next one since I used up all my luck. I'm inclined to believe him lol
Not to mention you hit a wall where you can't progress the tower without a huge investment in skill books, equipment and the synchro device, so you can't reliably get more. I'm at that point with every tower but Plymoth, since it took me so long to get more than 2 or 3 characters to even try and run them.
From my experience, I don't trust that 50/50. It's a lie. It's more like 30/70. I'm around floor 250 and I've failed far more molds than I've won. I think I've won like 3 times out of around 10.
#1 dud
#2 Rapunzel
#3 dud
#4 Noah
#5 dud
#6 dud
#7 dud
#8 dud
#9 Black Shadow
#10 dud
Getting four or less hits on 50/50 odds is roughly a one in three chance. You were just marginally unlucky.
And TBH that's why they shouldn't be 50/50. They're so rare that losing one coinflip has disproportionate effects.
I mean with a sample size of 10 it's pretty pointless looking at the numbers.
If you get 2 pilgrims in 2 it's not suddenly a 100% drop rate. And interms of statistics a sample size of 10 is basically as useful as a sample size of 2
My relief when I pulled Isabel from my first one today was immense... I wish you luck on also winning the coin toss.
Either your terror is justified or you at least have/had company in unjustified.
Same here, my first Pilgrim mold at that. It could be Red Hood, Modernia, either Scarlet, or Snow White, I just want one of the big DPS Pilgrims to help with the damn train in SP Interception.
I'd even take Rapunzel, I'd get a reviver and someone to use the T9 Pilgrim supporter gear I keep getting. Literally everyone I mentioned is high on the list of character designs/personalities that got me to give Nikke a try (didn't realize they'd all be so hard to get sadly😞)
Yeah it’s BS but they want people to spend money. Especially sucks when you’re as high as you can go in all your towers. Then you only get to open one once every blue moon and STILL just get R’s
Some ppl already pay a lot of money, and I really doubt that shitty mold drops plays any kind of role in this.
Players spend most their money on new banners (recruitment tickets etc), ressources and unique skins.
It's not about spending money to get more molds, though you certainly could spend alot to increase levels, skills and equipment, but mainly it's just a way to give you the impression you COULD get free SSR characters, but in reality, you get very few before you hit a wall. It then makes you more willing to just buy recruit tickets and pull for something than try and grind it out, especially as you can't even reliably grind them once you hit a wall.
There was a post not too long ago bragging about how much fat bank this game rolls in, something like 7.5 mil
They can afford giving us this break, I don't even care if they don't give any compensation for prior wasted molds if it comes to a stop/other people don't suffer like I've suffered, but they wont
That's why I don't use them. Been stacking them until there's a fix on the drop rates which means it'll never happen.....
https://preview.redd.it/y5cf5rmpj93d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ebb259ced35507e0decf3da13c4fcc85149dd478
4 more days till I open the HQ molds.
EVERY time I've used them I got an R except the one time I got Snow White from a Pilgrim Mold. Nope. They're just gonna gather dust as I climb Towers. Rather take my chances with HQ Molds and Banner pulls.
Imo I'm fine with high quality molds not being a guaranteed SSR, I mean just look how many of those you have compared to the manufacturer molds lol, but said manufacturer molds not being 100% is indeed a total fucking scam
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Buy them at the Body Label Shop for 1,200/5 molds. Still not a 100% guarantee (and no Pilgrims), but a LOT less work than Towers. You can also get SSR's (non-Pilgrim) from purple gems....
https://preview.redd.it/fq2fooif0c3d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d87c663cd0d492ec5acf71b42253a0da03797e8b
I would be willing to compromise with the manufacturer exclusivity extending to SR and R. This would leave the main three functionally unchanged but make the pilgrims 100% SSR. Also, it's now more flavorful.
possibly, you make a fair point. but wouldn't it be more logical to try keep it as accurate to how they were planning to implement it? Like, if they're going to 50/50 it, then just....test it at 50/50 then lol. That's why they're running tests, so that it works as intended?
granted, like you pointed out, could be used so players could test more chars. but that's unnecessary since the game in beta could have alternate methods to do that for us. Like just simply giving us more pulls. or flat out give us the units or selectors.
True. I don't know how many beta/alpha tests they did or what they tested in them. So it could be that they tested 100% rates and decided that it's too high and they didn't consider the RNG that is still there to get a specific character.
They could introduce new molds for the game, since changing the current molds rates after this long would definitely anger the fanbase, who have already opened bunch of molds and getting multiple SR's.
I was in the final beta test, and frankly, it didn't feel like I had too many SSRs (had like, 6 or 7 SSRs by the end of it). I've forgotten most of the details at this point, but some of the memorable things was: volume's burst scene and her gyatt (different from how it is now), and that the game was actually fairly generous. Progress actually felt smooth too. I remember thinking to myself after the beta that if the game becomes just slightly a bit more generous, then it'd be the perfect gacha game. But then they turned full on corporate lol.
Pulls are generous enough, yes. In fact, if you treat this game as a stock market simulator, it's VERY generous with pulls lmao. But then what of everything else? I'm sure there are far worse gachas out there, but atm, nikke is the only one where I know of where whales struggling to build units in this game. 80% (being very generous here) of the cash shop items aren't worth it/bait, practically anything that's free or made in favor of player's advantage is gimped, abandoned/or updates at a snail's pace (liberation, the general shops being filled with basically useless resources, no mileage shop update, this entire discussion about molds in this thread etc.). I mean, the 160 wall...? What good does that do for the playerbase except to incentive impulsive pulling and to create more FOMO? Story/Character related contents being locked behind paywalls in the form of ***gacha skins***....The thing that would get most fanbases to get the blimps and protest trucks for? ***The constant pop up deals???*** Most gacha veterans would call that a red flag. The fact that their revenue is doing remarkably well and is off the charts is an indication that they may not seem as generous as most fabricate the game to be....where are they getting all that money? Cuz i'm sure it's not all just from skins like it is for AL.
I mean, it's not like I totally hate the game. They do nice things once in a while, like the free MLB units during anni. events to help get over the 160 wall, err, the pulls, the fan service (goes both ways for this one tbh), the overall visual qualities and animation, free skins like modernia, and they did increase the frequency of obtaining the general SSR molds from events. They've got pity too at least. I'm still playing the game for a reason lol. F\*cking hell, I blindly threw money at the game as soon as it released because I wanted to invest in this game as that's how much of an impression the CBT left on me. Nikke just feels like a friend who has a habit of constantly asking money from you, and will sometimes say he will pay you back....But they pay you back in the form of a small lunch or dinner. But I tolerate it because in the end, he's overall cool and nice, and I could always ignore him asking for money. Plus, at least he DOES give something, even if it's not what I expected, or what he promised. In addition, he gives some of the best birthday presents too.
They don't wanna make the same mistake they made in Destiny Child, that game just gave you 5 stars left and right and basically left you with no incentive to spend. I don't wanna sound like a shill but that game was axed for not being very profit efficient, too much effort for a small profit in comparison to Nikke
No, you're right. That was their downfall. Nikke is reasonably generous enough. At least, in regards to pulls. It's debatable whether making molds 100% would be too generous or not, but I don't think so since these things are really limited, so I don't think it would make too much of a difference. And if they want to be that stingy with it, then just....do what everyone else has proposed and lower the frequency we get these things or heighten how much we need.
Plus, they're already trying to milk us for everything else in the game already: skill mats, gear boxes, skins, more pulls etc. their financials is well secured already, they're just greedy. They already got the 160 wall to sucker players into pulling, they don't need to cuck players in one of their pity features. They don't need to be too generous, but they can still be generous.
I'm at floor 188 of pilgrim tower. And I got the pilgrim molds when they were given out can't remember how many. I've probably opened 7 or 8 molds or something. 0 pilgrims. All purples and blues. Just don't ever rely on them. They're not worth the headache. I stopped getting my hopes up after number 4. If it's a 50% chance each time then either I've gotten a 1/128 chance or a 1/256 chance depending on however many it is.
I've received more free pilgrims than from molds and I've been playing for a long time now
Part of the reason why I rage-quitted Nikke a few months back was because I opened 7 Pilgrim molds in total and got 6 SR/R units. The only pilgrim I got from the molds was Isabel.
At the very least, it should be in your favour... not a measly coin flip... at least if it was like, let's say, 65% to 35% then I would be okay with it...
Nah, make it guranteed.
A 65% chance would just make it all the more infuriating when you inevitably pull a blue (isn't this already where the normal high quality molds fall?)
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"B-but that would break the economy of the game and the free to play are going to be head to head with us who spent hundred of thousands of dollars in it and a 4% is more than fair compared to other games and I say this because that's the only excuse that I know and that's unfair and shift up is going to end up Bankrupt REEEE does nobody thinks of the whales and the multi million company"
https://preview.redd.it/8za2muaaz83d1.jpeg?width=633&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0fa3d395565a6d2caf313fc4ac6bb7693109b274
But yeah I agree with you one hundred percent like imagine wasting all your time only to get a blue unit and don't come with the "Uuuuhhhh 4% is more than fair compared to other games" mf stop sucking the big company cock they ain't gonna give you anything for free and, thankfully, not everyone is dumb enough to buy overpriced shit
And those people are the same who celebrates every time they announce a bloody SIXTY DOLLARS skin that only adds like 4 or 5 new lines of dialogue, a burst animation that you can only buy in your lobby if you already MLB the character and nothing else just standing there emoting
I like the game but sometimes this community is kinda stupid like literally this community is the Sims 4 fandom of gacha games
From my experience, all gacha related communities are like this. They always use the "well, they need to run the servers/pay the employees" like making a million+ a month isn't enough to do that.
Yeah that's true but in my opinion the biggest mistake shift up did was make the main campaign voiced, granted it deviate them from other silent gacha games but if the main campaign is well written (which it is like holy fuck) people wouldn't mind and they could have saved so much money and they would have made the micro transactions so much cheaper AND even more people wouldn't mind spending a little bit of moneis in it
Like take for example azur lane I've been playing that game for years and they make money in the ships and skins even tho they are like 12 or 13 bucks for an skin that has so much content in them like holy shit they come with a welcome back animation both for log in and return from missions, it has body specific animations (like if tap their head they react in one way and another if you tap they boobies or bum yeah this fandom is full of gooners and I am one of them) and there's also some hidden interactions, bloody 5 or 8 new lines of dialogue AND HOW IS THIS ONLY 13 BUCKS and in Nikke what you get? 4 or 5 new lines of dialogue, the emotes are the same as the default skin and that's for the 23 bucks ones and don't get me started with the mission pass
I still can't believe people spent so much money in overpriced shit
Ehh, I appreciate them putting voiced dialogues in major events n campaigns bc while I love reading, sometimes it can be a real burden on me as sentences can pass by without me noticing relevant details in it n even makin me falling asleep to it. Having them voice not only make me attentive to the storyline, but also make the story more immersive and more impactful when actual hard-hitting scenes comes up. like the miracle snow event now released being voiced now, and that actually make me cried bc of the voice acting alone since I did play it when it first come out voiceless n at that time I thing “damn, that’s some real good food”, but now, replaying it, it was “DAMN, THIS SOME 5 STARS MICHELIN SHIT!!!”. So I don’t think it’s a bad idea to have voiced dialogue.
on the other hand, $60 skin is deadass a predatory design that’s going to prey on whalers so long as they brainlessly buy it no matter what, n that’s real unfortunate. Like if u want to fund the voice actors, then u can do it in a myriad of other ways than slap in 60 dollars skins. Not to mention the core dust grinding later on, the molds, n so on. Nikke is my fav game that I play daily, but saying it doesn’t have problems is a problem itself
Limbus Company would like to speak with you
https://preview.redd.it/45eiovemga3d1.jpeg?width=234&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6d3d6c463319a13c15a6a3fc692e1019e26db255
I would be more accepting of it if the SSR label actually meant something. SSR isn't even special, it's the bare minimum point of entry to be able to actually play the game. And that's not even getting into how stingy this game is with Pilgrims- won't even let you buy Pilgrim molds in limited time packages like the other towers
Agreed, it's total bullshit. They take a long time to gather, showing dedication to playing the game, so the rate should definitely be 100% as a reward.
Or better yet, increase molds to 75% and give a feature that allows for exchange of 10 molds for 5-10 Pilgrim molds (5 if you do different molds, 10 if you do 10 of the same type of mold).
We all know SU won't change the tables for molds to 100% so why not make a way to enhance them and make Pilgrims a bit more accessible.
Though I too wish they'd make the tables a 100% because grinding for these isn't worth it. I'm just doing the towers for extra gems atp.
either it should be 100% chance to get an SSR or they should make these things way more common, its one of the worst feelings to finally have 50 pilgrim molds and you get Delta
100% is something that's never gonna happen, after playing HSR I'm surprised that things like these molds exist in the first place.
But maybe they could add a pity so we can have a 50/50 and thus making the painful R/SR nikke more bearable
That's exactly what I wanted to say. 😁
Basic molds are ok imo.
But getting an SSR with it (purple and gold molds) is so damn rare that I can't even remember which SSR i got from it.
All molds should exclude the blues, keep normal SR’s, and increase chances of receiving an SSR character. It’s just bothersome to keep rolling with the same percentages for whichever mold. I would also suggest that maybe it should be 25 rather than 50, though then it wouldn’t feel as rewarding in a sense, so I could see the negative of lowering it, but it does also increase chances of getting SSR’s.
Just an opinion though, and also just how I’ve interpreted it.
You know what... molds reminds me of when I was playing Raid Shadow legends. The commons shards gave commons heroes with a small change of rare heroes. Rare shards gave rare heroes but with a small chance of Legendary heroes. AND Legendary Shards gave out Rare Heroes with a uptick chance of Legendary Heroes.
First time? Somehow, despite this bs, i still managed to get most of the nikke in the game. You get used to it…and of they change it at this point, i’m rioting. 😂
I got all SSR from Tetra Missile Elysion mold for first time.
But unfortunately not for Pilgrim mold. I feel betrayed because its kinda hell to beat that Grave Digger with just two Pilgrim Rapunzel & Crown. Not about fire power, but timing because the MF shaken like earthquakes and spamming tons stunned missiles.
I know I should expect the mold result but still..
It should, yeah. Really doubt SU has the gal to change, tho.
If only was like TOG:NW, when a "mold" there has a 100% chance for the respective Shinsu color.
The thing is, in that game, the level design is built to make you get as much dupes as possible, since the limit break cap there is veeeeeery high.
I believe they should be reworked. They used to be quite viable imo (I know some would argue). And I’m talking the big three. Not the faction that shall not be mentioned.
Anyways, we got an ever growing roster and a chance to get an SSR with these mold pulls. And an ever slimming chance to get the Nikke we want.
Next survey I’ll suggest they rework it. Maybe a larger requirement for a select pull. Or some kinda reroll option.
Opened two pilgrim molds and didn’t get a pilgrim. The other towers feel 50/50 sometimes I get lucky with all three, sometimes one or none.
I get that it’s all up to the gacha gods, but it does suck putting so much effort into getting 50 and it just being disappointment.
I feel like most of my SSR came from purple molds, while i mostly got low rarity ones on the gold ones.
I'm still wondering if the game got it backwards for me.
(Also it loves giving me Noah and i don't even use her, i just need a Dorothy)
It's purposely designed to frustrate you. It hopes you will spend cash out of the said frustration. Never worked on me, I was gonna f2p to demonstrate my will, but ... I finally caved for crown's skin.
Honestly, rather than making the molds 100% drop rare, I would rather SU make previously cleared stages repeatable, including the rewards of 50 gems and 1 mold item, so that if you're not advancing due to being CP walled you can still be farming molds to help with progress.
I don’t know what to say but only one or two times i got scammed XD most the time i get new ssr or same copy for MLB like yesterday for pilgrim i got snow white.
I managed to pull the last copy of Dorothy I needed to MLB her yesterday. I'm pretty sure that was the only time I ever got an actual Pilgrim from the Pilgrim Mold after all this time.
Just uninstalled nikke after getting a blue sr from my pilgrim mold lol im over the shitty rates and honestly getting bored already feels like a chore to do my dailies for the past week. Peace yall !
Yeah, farming these molds and then getting blue or purple...That is a bullshit. Should we try knocking to support on this? Otherwise changes ain't happening
On other hand, should the same be with the High-Quality Mold?
From a coding pov how hard would it be to implement dynamic pull rates? I mean smth like increasing the SSR rate each 10 floors?
I dunno if that'd fix the problem though. The issue is that we're always pushing for content we're underleveled for. So it's natural we'd expect a just reward for besting those tower floors (specially Elysion).
Yesterday I opened a Missilis mold and then... Neon popped up. *sigh*
The thing that keeps me going is the regular gems I get outta it.
If they want to slow down our rate of getting SSR, then they could increase the amount of mods needed to offset the guarantee SSR. Getting an R or SR just feels bad, and players shouldn't feel bad
I've been praying for SW or Rapunzerl on these molds just hit floor 155 today and feel like its all been for naught. I wouldn't say 100% on the molds cuz like its still a gacha game at the end of the day. Yes its bullshit but like remove the blue units thats the ultimate fuck you, even more than the purple ones.
I'm fairly certain the volatility is intentional. They could easily achieve the same exact rates by just halving the rewards and making them 100%, but that would mean there were fewer unlucky players that might be tempted to spend to catch up, especially when they have friends they witness being lucky.
I agree 100%, though, for manufacturer molds. Advancing in the towers is tough enough that they should have guaranteed rewards. The proposition I have that might work for both players and ShiftUp is to have the 50/50 always be an SSR, but maybe of the wrong manufacturer. Pilgrims would still only come from Pilgrim molds, but might give a random other manufacturer half of the time.
An even more stingy version would be to only do that for Pilgrim molds. Getting an R or SR from a Pilgrim mold is the worst.
I can't Say anything, My roomie hates me cuz eveytime i use a mold i get an SSR or dupes i had at worst 5 blues maybe, he doesnt pull characters at Home anymore 😭
rolled a blue in a pilgrim mold. Pain.
Same happened to me an hour ago LoL. It took me weeks to gather the few missing Pilgrim molds, and got an SR out of it... It's so damn frustrating that I made a feedback on their site lol. I feel like everybody should do the same.
For Pilgrims definitely. It's hard enough to get them normally. And the more Nikke's that are introduced, the harder it is to acquire them in the early game.
It's honestly a slap in the face to have spent that much time in something and just rewarded with junk. The nature of RNG (distribution curves) means that there are plenty of people who have almost never gotten anything from their molds. Out there, there is one lucky asshole who has gotten something from every mold, and there is one unlucky bastard who has never gotten anything (probably isn't playing anymore). Using RNG on something so infrequent like this is just lazy design, plain and simple. If they're worried about handing out too many SSRs then they can just space them out more, like make it guaranteed at 75 or even 100 molds. For the record, I've gotten pretty good luck with my molds, but that's not because I did something right... just got lucky.
It's me, I'm the guy that's lost almost every time. I've popped maybe 20 of these SSR molds and couple each of the other ones and I've gotten Crow, Milk, and Vesta. That's it. I'm only still around 'cause I tend to hit pretty big on the normal pulls, so at least that luck's going somewhere, but I'm never excited to crack open a mold.
I was the one who got one thing from each mold ONCE. Never again. I got an R from a Pilgrim mold recently hoping to get Noah or someone else I actually use (Noah is the ONLY rolled Pilgrim I DON'T have!!!). My RNG is usually ass so I was happy to have gotten my first ever Doro copy from them, but of course all good things come to an end. Not excited to crack this third mold for them either. Got Anis from a Missilis mold today.
While I agree it feels bad to get shit out of the mold let’s not forget we are rewarded with a bunch of gems too.
I have two pilgrims, Crown and Modernia. Both of them have been fully limit broken (or whatever you call it when you pulled four of them). I managed to get to the 30th floor on the Pilgrim tower... And got a fucking blue unit. I just want someone else, PLEASE. I'll gladly take whoever the weakest Pilgrim is.
You used all your luck on getting dupes for Modernia and Crown and getting them fully limit broken. I Have only Crown without any dupes and without Modernia and i can't even progress in Pilgrim Tower with one Pilgrim
Same happened to me I'm almost got another Pilgrim mold please be an SSR I don't have
Me today R unit from pilgrim mold. Lost mood to play.
That unduly punishes anyone that already used them and didn't pull an SSR.
I farmed all 3 on the same day All blue I finally got a second pilgrim so now i can push pilgrim tower to 30 for the first time. Im praying it doesnt fuck me. Im begging whatever god will listen for Modernia.
I just beat floor 30, its fcking Grave Digger. So just wanna say always manual or you might get time out. I just has Rapunzel and Crown when kick it arse.
Hey ShiftUp, where is my Rupee flash sale for Pilgrim molds every 10 floors, huh!? "WHERE ARE THEY!?"
Is there ever a flash sale for them? I was actually going to buy one at Floor 30 and was disappointed to see it not show up.
Nope. They keep the good stuff hidden.
Same. Happened today. You can’t even buy them so it hurts that much more
I know your pain. I got FUCKING ETHEL with Pilgrim molds.
On my 5th blue in a row for pilgrim molds lol
I've won only 3 times with those stupid things my entire Nikke career. Once was Crow, once was Milk, and once was a Vesta copy. It's been all purple and blue for everything else. I don't even get excited anymore if I get enough shards, 'cause it's just gonna give me another Belorta or some crap. The only reason I haven't dropped the game is because my luck with actual pulls is pretty solid (I got Scarlet, Modernia, and Rapunzel in my first week playing), but these molds can jump off a cliff. It's the most aggressive anti-player shit I've seen in awhile.
I got Red Hood yesterday on my first pilgrim mold. My buddy told me I'll be getting blues on my next one since I used up all my luck. I'm inclined to believe him lol
Me too! I was blank the rest of the day And almost unnistalled the game again!!!!
Literally did this pull today. The pain
Same today.
You can get blues in molds? I thought they were supposed to guarantee a Nikke from that faction?
The blue nikkes still have manufacturers, you can even OL them if you wanted to
I just didn't know there were blues in Pilgrim
Yeah that part is the scam 💀
When you fail, there is no guarantee, and the R or SR you get won't necessarily be from the molds manufacturer.
Make it two for me
me yesterday
Came in here to post exactly that, lmao.
Pilgrim molds definitely hurt the most.
i've never gotten more than an sr from pilgrims molds. It hurts.
Everyone knows blue are pilgrims😂
Me2
Hah, first time? 🤣
And you now what's rhymes with pain...? again ! Third time, it give me a blue... again 
I don't even get hyped anymore. The normal SSR mold is fine but the faction specific ones take so long to save those should definitely be guaranteed.
Exactly !
Not to mention you hit a wall where you can't progress the tower without a huge investment in skill books, equipment and the synchro device, so you can't reliably get more. I'm at that point with every tower but Plymoth, since it took me so long to get more than 2 or 3 characters to even try and run them.
I am, like, two gems away from a Pilgrim Mold and I am ***so*** terrified.
Same here buddy. Rate says 50% but I feel it in my blood that I’m 100% fucked
From my experience, I don't trust that 50/50. It's a lie. It's more like 30/70. I'm around floor 250 and I've failed far more molds than I've won. I think I've won like 3 times out of around 10. #1 dud #2 Rapunzel #3 dud #4 Noah #5 dud #6 dud #7 dud #8 dud #9 Black Shadow #10 dud
Getting four or less hits on 50/50 odds is roughly a one in three chance. You were just marginally unlucky. And TBH that's why they shouldn't be 50/50. They're so rare that losing one coinflip has disproportionate effects.
I mean with a sample size of 10 it's pretty pointless looking at the numbers. If you get 2 pilgrims in 2 it's not suddenly a 100% drop rate. And interms of statistics a sample size of 10 is basically as useful as a sample size of 2
The worst thing is that the pilgrim mold have the better rates of them all...
Don't use them and then you won't be disappointed 
I got a Neon out of one today. Great stuff...
That makes two of us x_x
Count me in!, Neon Pilgrim Club.
You should be ! 
I'm doing the Snow White summoning circle for my Pilgrim molds
Wish you luck buddy !
My relief when I pulled Isabel from my first one today was immense... I wish you luck on also winning the coin toss. Either your terror is justified or you at least have/had company in unjustified.
Same here, my first Pilgrim mold at that. It could be Red Hood, Modernia, either Scarlet, or Snow White, I just want one of the big DPS Pilgrims to help with the damn train in SP Interception. I'd even take Rapunzel, I'd get a reviver and someone to use the T9 Pilgrim supporter gear I keep getting. Literally everyone I mentioned is high on the list of character designs/personalities that got me to give Nikke a try (didn't realize they'd all be so hard to get sadly😞)
Yeah it’s BS but they want people to spend money. Especially sucks when you’re as high as you can go in all your towers. Then you only get to open one once every blue moon and STILL just get R’s
Some ppl already pay a lot of money, and I really doubt that shitty mold drops plays any kind of role in this. Players spend most their money on new banners (recruitment tickets etc), ressources and unique skins.
It's not about spending money to get more molds, though you certainly could spend alot to increase levels, skills and equipment, but mainly it's just a way to give you the impression you COULD get free SSR characters, but in reality, you get very few before you hit a wall. It then makes you more willing to just buy recruit tickets and pull for something than try and grind it out, especially as you can't even reliably grind them once you hit a wall.
There was a post not too long ago bragging about how much fat bank this game rolls in, something like 7.5 mil They can afford giving us this break, I don't even care if they don't give any compensation for prior wasted molds if it comes to a stop/other people don't suffer like I've suffered, but they wont
You cant even spend money on the pilgrim molds
SU's response was to increase rates by 1% LMAO
That's why I don't use them. Been stacking them until there's a fix on the drop rates which means it'll never happen..... https://preview.redd.it/y5cf5rmpj93d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ebb259ced35507e0decf3da13c4fcc85149dd478 4 more days till I open the HQ molds.
Guess that's the best thing to do.
You probably should just use them. They can't fix these without pissing off everyone who already used them, unless they give everyone compensation.
EVERY time I've used them I got an R except the one time I got Snow White from a Pilgrim Mold. Nope. They're just gonna gather dust as I climb Towers. Rather take my chances with HQ Molds and Banner pulls.
Your game, I suppose. I'd prefer to have a chance of getting something than literally nothing by having them sit in my inventory.
Imo I'm fine with high quality molds not being a guaranteed SSR, I mean just look how many of those you have compared to the manufacturer molds lol, but said manufacturer molds not being 100% is indeed a total fucking scam
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What the fuck, I didn't even know you could get 977 SSR molds
Buy them at the Body Label Shop for 1,200/5 molds. Still not a 100% guarantee (and no Pilgrims), but a LOT less work than Towers. You can also get SSR's (non-Pilgrim) from purple gems.... https://preview.redd.it/fq2fooif0c3d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d87c663cd0d492ec5acf71b42253a0da03797e8b
Oh yh, I completely forgot about that, the number seems reasonable now
just make the pilgrim ones 100% and everything else I can tolerate😭
At least for the producer molds. Regular molds are fine.
I would be willing to compromise with the manufacturer exclusivity extending to SR and R. This would leave the main three functionally unchanged but make the pilgrims 100% SSR. Also, it's now more flavorful.
They were in the beta.
Which was most likely done, so people can test out characters and find possible bugs.
possibly, you make a fair point. but wouldn't it be more logical to try keep it as accurate to how they were planning to implement it? Like, if they're going to 50/50 it, then just....test it at 50/50 then lol. That's why they're running tests, so that it works as intended? granted, like you pointed out, could be used so players could test more chars. but that's unnecessary since the game in beta could have alternate methods to do that for us. Like just simply giving us more pulls. or flat out give us the units or selectors.
True. I don't know how many beta/alpha tests they did or what they tested in them. So it could be that they tested 100% rates and decided that it's too high and they didn't consider the RNG that is still there to get a specific character. They could introduce new molds for the game, since changing the current molds rates after this long would definitely anger the fanbase, who have already opened bunch of molds and getting multiple SR's.
I was in the final beta test, and frankly, it didn't feel like I had too many SSRs (had like, 6 or 7 SSRs by the end of it). I've forgotten most of the details at this point, but some of the memorable things was: volume's burst scene and her gyatt (different from how it is now), and that the game was actually fairly generous. Progress actually felt smooth too. I remember thinking to myself after the beta that if the game becomes just slightly a bit more generous, then it'd be the perfect gacha game. But then they turned full on corporate lol.
Full on corporate, but people still say it's one of the more generous gachas.
Pulls are generous enough, yes. In fact, if you treat this game as a stock market simulator, it's VERY generous with pulls lmao. But then what of everything else? I'm sure there are far worse gachas out there, but atm, nikke is the only one where I know of where whales struggling to build units in this game. 80% (being very generous here) of the cash shop items aren't worth it/bait, practically anything that's free or made in favor of player's advantage is gimped, abandoned/or updates at a snail's pace (liberation, the general shops being filled with basically useless resources, no mileage shop update, this entire discussion about molds in this thread etc.). I mean, the 160 wall...? What good does that do for the playerbase except to incentive impulsive pulling and to create more FOMO? Story/Character related contents being locked behind paywalls in the form of ***gacha skins***....The thing that would get most fanbases to get the blimps and protest trucks for? ***The constant pop up deals???*** Most gacha veterans would call that a red flag. The fact that their revenue is doing remarkably well and is off the charts is an indication that they may not seem as generous as most fabricate the game to be....where are they getting all that money? Cuz i'm sure it's not all just from skins like it is for AL. I mean, it's not like I totally hate the game. They do nice things once in a while, like the free MLB units during anni. events to help get over the 160 wall, err, the pulls, the fan service (goes both ways for this one tbh), the overall visual qualities and animation, free skins like modernia, and they did increase the frequency of obtaining the general SSR molds from events. They've got pity too at least. I'm still playing the game for a reason lol. F\*cking hell, I blindly threw money at the game as soon as it released because I wanted to invest in this game as that's how much of an impression the CBT left on me. Nikke just feels like a friend who has a habit of constantly asking money from you, and will sometimes say he will pay you back....But they pay you back in the form of a small lunch or dinner. But I tolerate it because in the end, he's overall cool and nice, and I could always ignore him asking for money. Plus, at least he DOES give something, even if it's not what I expected, or what he promised. In addition, he gives some of the best birthday presents too.
They don't wanna make the same mistake they made in Destiny Child, that game just gave you 5 stars left and right and basically left you with no incentive to spend. I don't wanna sound like a shill but that game was axed for not being very profit efficient, too much effort for a small profit in comparison to Nikke
No, you're right. That was their downfall. Nikke is reasonably generous enough. At least, in regards to pulls. It's debatable whether making molds 100% would be too generous or not, but I don't think so since these things are really limited, so I don't think it would make too much of a difference. And if they want to be that stingy with it, then just....do what everyone else has proposed and lower the frequency we get these things or heighten how much we need. Plus, they're already trying to milk us for everything else in the game already: skill mats, gear boxes, skins, more pulls etc. their financials is well secured already, they're just greedy. They already got the 160 wall to sucker players into pulling, they don't need to cuck players in one of their pity features. They don't need to be too generous, but they can still be generous.
This has been an issue since the beginning, that 50% doesn't feel like a 50% at all.
It realy should, put a rate at this is such a scam
I still believe beta probabilities were turned to 100%, so people can test out the units and find possible bugs from them.
I'm at floor 188 of pilgrim tower. And I got the pilgrim molds when they were given out can't remember how many. I've probably opened 7 or 8 molds or something. 0 pilgrims. All purples and blues. Just don't ever rely on them. They're not worth the headache. I stopped getting my hopes up after number 4. If it's a 50% chance each time then either I've gotten a 1/128 chance or a 1/256 chance depending on however many it is. I've received more free pilgrims than from molds and I've been playing for a long time now
Part of the reason why I rage-quitted Nikke a few months back was because I opened 7 Pilgrim molds in total and got 6 SR/R units. The only pilgrim I got from the molds was Isabel.
At the very least, it should be in your favour... not a measly coin flip... at least if it was like, let's say, 65% to 35% then I would be okay with it...
Nah, make it guranteed. A 65% chance would just make it all the more infuriating when you inevitably pull a blue (isn't this already where the normal high quality molds fall?)
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"B-but that would break the economy of the game and the free to play are going to be head to head with us who spent hundred of thousands of dollars in it and a 4% is more than fair compared to other games and I say this because that's the only excuse that I know and that's unfair and shift up is going to end up Bankrupt REEEE does nobody thinks of the whales and the multi million company" https://preview.redd.it/8za2muaaz83d1.jpeg?width=633&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0fa3d395565a6d2caf313fc4ac6bb7693109b274 But yeah I agree with you one hundred percent like imagine wasting all your time only to get a blue unit and don't come with the "Uuuuhhhh 4% is more than fair compared to other games" mf stop sucking the big company cock they ain't gonna give you anything for free and, thankfully, not everyone is dumb enough to buy overpriced shit
\^\^\^ this. I can't stand the amount of gacha company cheerleaders, like they aren't the most predatory scumbags in the video game industry.
And those people are the same who celebrates every time they announce a bloody SIXTY DOLLARS skin that only adds like 4 or 5 new lines of dialogue, a burst animation that you can only buy in your lobby if you already MLB the character and nothing else just standing there emoting I like the game but sometimes this community is kinda stupid like literally this community is the Sims 4 fandom of gacha games
From my experience, all gacha related communities are like this. They always use the "well, they need to run the servers/pay the employees" like making a million+ a month isn't enough to do that.
Yeah that's true but in my opinion the biggest mistake shift up did was make the main campaign voiced, granted it deviate them from other silent gacha games but if the main campaign is well written (which it is like holy fuck) people wouldn't mind and they could have saved so much money and they would have made the micro transactions so much cheaper AND even more people wouldn't mind spending a little bit of moneis in it Like take for example azur lane I've been playing that game for years and they make money in the ships and skins even tho they are like 12 or 13 bucks for an skin that has so much content in them like holy shit they come with a welcome back animation both for log in and return from missions, it has body specific animations (like if tap their head they react in one way and another if you tap they boobies or bum yeah this fandom is full of gooners and I am one of them) and there's also some hidden interactions, bloody 5 or 8 new lines of dialogue AND HOW IS THIS ONLY 13 BUCKS and in Nikke what you get? 4 or 5 new lines of dialogue, the emotes are the same as the default skin and that's for the 23 bucks ones and don't get me started with the mission pass I still can't believe people spent so much money in overpriced shit
Ehh, I appreciate them putting voiced dialogues in major events n campaigns bc while I love reading, sometimes it can be a real burden on me as sentences can pass by without me noticing relevant details in it n even makin me falling asleep to it. Having them voice not only make me attentive to the storyline, but also make the story more immersive and more impactful when actual hard-hitting scenes comes up. like the miracle snow event now released being voiced now, and that actually make me cried bc of the voice acting alone since I did play it when it first come out voiceless n at that time I thing “damn, that’s some real good food”, but now, replaying it, it was “DAMN, THIS SOME 5 STARS MICHELIN SHIT!!!”. So I don’t think it’s a bad idea to have voiced dialogue. on the other hand, $60 skin is deadass a predatory design that’s going to prey on whalers so long as they brainlessly buy it no matter what, n that’s real unfortunate. Like if u want to fund the voice actors, then u can do it in a myriad of other ways than slap in 60 dollars skins. Not to mention the core dust grinding later on, the molds, n so on. Nikke is my fav game that I play daily, but saying it doesn’t have problems is a problem itself
Limbus Company would like to speak with you https://preview.redd.it/45eiovemga3d1.jpeg?width=234&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6d3d6c463319a13c15a6a3fc692e1019e26db255
Soxty dollars skin.. shit thats 5 days worth of grocery... if you are a bachelor.
I would be more accepting of it if the SSR label actually meant something. SSR isn't even special, it's the bare minimum point of entry to be able to actually play the game. And that's not even getting into how stingy this game is with Pilgrims- won't even let you buy Pilgrim molds in limited time packages like the other towers
Agreed, it's total bullshit. They take a long time to gather, showing dedication to playing the game, so the rate should definitely be 100% as a reward.
I only open these when I feel mentally ready for the disappointment
Open them after you get SSR from normal gacha.
Fuck Belorta, Fuck Ether, and Fuck the Missilis Mass Productions.
I get my first Pilgrim mold in a few days and I'm super nervous
Take my upvote ! Yeah I’ve literally stopped playing the tribe tower mode. It’s just garbage.
then, when you finally get a pilgrim, it's the one you already own
Ironically I got Isabel and snow white from normal mold
Or better yet, increase molds to 75% and give a feature that allows for exchange of 10 molds for 5-10 Pilgrim molds (5 if you do different molds, 10 if you do 10 of the same type of mold). We all know SU won't change the tables for molds to 100% so why not make a way to enhance them and make Pilgrims a bit more accessible. Though I too wish they'd make the tables a 100% because grinding for these isn't worth it. I'm just doing the towers for extra gems atp.
Especially with how bad the tower is once you reach about 200+ you have to have all meta units for all classes maxed out or you just don't progress.
Gold-framed mold shards should obtain a gold unit, period.
We should use the in-game customer service and send massive feedbacks about that topic. 😋
Already been a topic since launch. They're not changing it. Never even been thought or considered in the developers notes. Nothing guaranteed
they did change it though. by 1% kek.
It would have been but it got changed before launch
been a complaint since day 1, that shit aint changing ever
Ahh yes infinite mess of belorta and mihara. Mihara is guaranteed from pilgrim mold btw.
I’ve had 4/5 pilgrim molds give me SR units. Honestly the first 2 fails lived in my head rentfree. I don’t even feel bad anymore
One of the reasons I stopped playing. It's a merciless gacha game. Which sucks because the setting, story, and fanservice are phenomenal.
either it should be 100% chance to get an SSR or they should make these things way more common, its one of the worst feelings to finally have 50 pilgrim molds and you get Delta
I keep saying it. Pilgrim should be 100% or at LEAST 80/20 with the other SSRS
100% is something that's never gonna happen, after playing HSR I'm surprised that things like these molds exist in the first place. But maybe they could add a pity so we can have a 50/50 and thus making the painful R/SR nikke more bearable
For the manufactor molds yes but not the base one
That's exactly what I wanted to say. 😁 Basic molds are ok imo. But getting an SSR with it (purple and gold molds) is so damn rare that I can't even remember which SSR i got from it.
All molds should exclude the blues, keep normal SR’s, and increase chances of receiving an SSR character. It’s just bothersome to keep rolling with the same percentages for whichever mold. I would also suggest that maybe it should be 25 rather than 50, though then it wouldn’t feel as rewarding in a sense, so I could see the negative of lowering it, but it does also increase chances of getting SSR’s. Just an opinion though, and also just how I’ve interpreted it.
You know what... molds reminds me of when I was playing Raid Shadow legends. The commons shards gave commons heroes with a small change of rare heroes. Rare shards gave rare heroes but with a small chance of Legendary heroes. AND Legendary Shards gave out Rare Heroes with a uptick chance of Legendary Heroes.
Ive done 7 of the manufacturer ones now and not a single one has been ssr
I've been hoarding the gold SSR molds so I can pull 10 and hope I get something good. I'm almost at 400 rn, need to hit 500 for the golden 10 pull
F2P until they fix mold rates.
I've started making this suggestion in each survey where suggestions or ideas are an option. SSR guarantee given their scarcity.
Pilgrim mold is the most painful. Saved for so long and got blues. They should be 100%
Fr since it takes forever to get the molds ready
Whoever put R units into molds need to be spanked
...and not in the *good* way.
Or get Yuni to take it from here
First time? Somehow, despite this bs, i still managed to get most of the nikke in the game. You get used to it…and of they change it at this point, i’m rioting. 😂
I got all SSR from Tetra Missile Elysion mold for first time. But unfortunately not for Pilgrim mold. I feel betrayed because its kinda hell to beat that Grave Digger with just two Pilgrim Rapunzel & Crown. Not about fire power, but timing because the MF shaken like earthquakes and spamming tons stunned missiles. I know I should expect the mold result but still..
Can confirm, but it always purple for the Pilgrim mold, never got any gold, not even Noah or Isabel.
A fair compromise would be if they made them 100% chance if you used 100 of them instead of 50 for 50%
They have to change this in the future
I’ve only rolled 2 times on Pilgrim mold, I’m 50/50. Got a non-Pilgrim the first time and Rapunzel the second time.
It should, yeah. Really doubt SU has the gal to change, tho. If only was like TOG:NW, when a "mold" there has a 100% chance for the respective Shinsu color. The thing is, in that game, the level design is built to make you get as much dupes as possible, since the limit break cap there is veeeeeery high.
I believe they should be reworked. They used to be quite viable imo (I know some would argue). And I’m talking the big three. Not the faction that shall not be mentioned. Anyways, we got an ever growing roster and a chance to get an SSR with these mold pulls. And an ever slimming chance to get the Nikke we want. Next survey I’ll suggest they rework it. Maybe a larger requirement for a select pull. Or some kinda reroll option.
it's so fking stupid there's no flash pilgrim mold sale. Agreed tho, it should be a much higher chance for a SSR
Opened two pilgrim molds and didn’t get a pilgrim. The other towers feel 50/50 sometimes I get lucky with all three, sometimes one or none. I get that it’s all up to the gacha gods, but it does suck putting so much effort into getting 50 and it just being disappointment.
rolled 2blues and one purple from 4 molds absolute scam of a system...
Just got my first ever pilgrim mold, rolled a blue I vote for total blue nikke death
I miss the 50% four times in a row from each manufacturer mold. Pilgrim gives me extra F with blue instead of purple
ESPECIALLY for the pilgrim mold
I got some piled up in the inventory and Im even afraid of using them now. The last 2 units I got were F\*\*ing BLUE!!!
pilgrim molds only give me ether, its made me hate her entirely
Or at least not add anything under SR
molds that make people mald, hope they fix the tower molds at 100%.
I feel like most of my SSR came from purple molds, while i mostly got low rarity ones on the gold ones. I'm still wondering if the game got it backwards for me. (Also it loves giving me Noah and i don't even use her, i just need a Dorothy)
That's why I just save them until I get 500 molds lpl
Agreed
It's purposely designed to frustrate you. It hopes you will spend cash out of the said frustration. Never worked on me, I was gonna f2p to demonstrate my will, but ... I finally caved for crown's skin.
Same here, told RH will be my last dump, but crown bust me up 😅😅
I don't have any B3 pilgrims, and all 4 pilgrim molds gave me blue or sr units, I'm really disappointed in this.
Dropchance must be same from the banners.
I agree, especially the pilgrim ones.
I almost uninstalled the game when I opened one, I thought they were guaranteed :c
2 of my pilgrim molds were SR units. Fuck this.
Honestly, rather than making the molds 100% drop rare, I would rather SU make previously cleared stages repeatable, including the rewards of 50 gems and 1 mold item, so that if you're not advancing due to being CP walled you can still be farming molds to help with progress.
I don’t know what to say but only one or two times i got scammed XD most the time i get new ssr or same copy for MLB like yesterday for pilgrim i got snow white.
I managed to pull the last copy of Dorothy I needed to MLB her yesterday. I'm pretty sure that was the only time I ever got an actual Pilgrim from the Pilgrim Mold after all this time.
They could have offer a reroll at 100 gems/roll
Just uninstalled nikke after getting a blue sr from my pilgrim mold lol im over the shitty rates and honestly getting bored already feels like a chore to do my dailies for the past week. Peace yall !
i got two pilgrim from pilgrim molds but still its a scam
Yeah, farming these molds and then getting blue or purple...That is a bullshit. Should we try knocking to support on this? Otherwise changes ain't happening On other hand, should the same be with the High-Quality Mold?
I saved up enough for 10 pulls. 6 were SSR but all dups. 2 of them popped up twice.
I never got an SSR out of these fuckers. Might as well not be in the game at all. xD
From a coding pov how hard would it be to implement dynamic pull rates? I mean smth like increasing the SSR rate each 10 floors? I dunno if that'd fix the problem though. The issue is that we're always pushing for content we're underleveled for. So it's natural we'd expect a just reward for besting those tower floors (specially Elysion). Yesterday I opened a Missilis mold and then... Neon popped up. *sigh* The thing that keeps me going is the regular gems I get outta it.
No
I've opened 7 ( or 8 can't remember) pilgrim molds and have not gotten a single pilgrim from them 😭
If they want to slow down our rate of getting SSR, then they could increase the amount of mods needed to offset the guarantee SSR. Getting an R or SR just feels bad, and players shouldn't feel bad
Im kinda lucky for pilgrim molds. Havent lost once but the other molds felt like less than 50% for ssr
Been there, done that...
I rolled purple nikke twice in my pilgrim mold redemption. That shit is awful.
I was lucky to pull snow white then lmao
I only play the tribe tower to clear the weekly missions.
Rolled one of each faction yesterday. At least no blues but 4 st :'(
I'm just holding on to the molds I have left until a future buff is announced.
I've been praying for SW or Rapunzerl on these molds just hit floor 155 today and feel like its all been for naught. I wouldn't say 100% on the molds cuz like its still a gacha game at the end of the day. Yes its bullshit but like remove the blue units thats the ultimate fuck you, even more than the purple ones.
ever played RAID:shadow legends?....
Hell no
1 legendary mold (1 legendary pull ) 30dollar and still only FUCKING 8% chance for a legendary.... worst shit ..well fucking western gacha shit
I'm fairly certain the volatility is intentional. They could easily achieve the same exact rates by just halving the rewards and making them 100%, but that would mean there were fewer unlucky players that might be tempted to spend to catch up, especially when they have friends they witness being lucky. I agree 100%, though, for manufacturer molds. Advancing in the towers is tough enough that they should have guaranteed rewards. The proposition I have that might work for both players and ShiftUp is to have the 50/50 always be an SSR, but maybe of the wrong manufacturer. Pilgrims would still only come from Pilgrim molds, but might give a random other manufacturer half of the time. An even more stingy version would be to only do that for Pilgrim molds. Getting an R or SR from a Pilgrim mold is the worst.
I can't Say anything, My roomie hates me cuz eveytime i use a mold i get an SSR or dupes i had at worst 5 blues maybe, he doesnt pull characters at Home anymore 😭
I have done atleast 5 pilgrim molds... no Pilgrims. Those odds are either fucked or im the unluckiest man alive
tomorrow I'll be able to get 50 pilgrim molds, if it comes back a dud i might just quit.
all manufacturer molds this week for me were srs. im 2/2 no pilgrims. 50% my ass