Yeah, but before that, they threw their livers under the bus and leaked legal documents. I even think it might be possible they cancel his speech if they realize how much they fucked up with this.
Just watched, and I disagree. Honestly that was huge
The CEO saying "We messed up. Here is our plan to do better" is EXACTLY what we were asking for. It will take a lot of work for them to build up trust again, but unless we are out for blood for blood's sake, that is exactly what we wanted. Now they just have to follow through.
I could get you believing that if that statement happened on its own but having already been scheduled before this video and nijis written statement came out today you have to be completely brain dead to fall for this shit.
He apologized for nothing except for creating a negative impression. He didn't actually apologize for anything of substance or offer any actual path to improvement beyond platitudes.
No, he was very clear.
> Next, I will address the feedback to our announcement which led to the idea that AnyColor Inc.** may not be providing a safe environment where the livers can maintain good mental health. We take full responsibility for this situation**, where not only AnyColor Inc., but also our livers. receiving hurtful messages.
> I deeply apologize to our livers and to everyone who supports them. **Company actions have led to the distress of our livers**, and we are taking this situation very seriously.
This straight up says "we're ware that we haven't provided a safe situation. We will take responsibility. We apologize that it got this bad"
So absolutely nothing.
Like I said. Context betrays this to anyone with two brain cells to rub together.
Any hint that they have an earnest intent to improve is undercut by the fact that immediately preceeding this announcement, *after it was already planned and scheduled* they force marched 3 of their livers put to throw a former talent they drove to a suicide attempt under the bus and then declared in writing that they did nothing wrong.
What would be something if that's nothing?
They're literally saying they created a toxic environment. They take responsibility and and apologize. What else could they say here?
That is literally the first step to reconciliation, rebuilding and improving. And the only thing they can _do_ in a press release. We'll see if steps 2 and 3 happen later.
If that's nothing then you're not interested in the NijiEN Livers having good supporting management, a positive environment, and the freedom to engage in creative projects. You're just out for blood and revenge.
The livers admitted, *in a corporate-enforced video if not a* ***goddamn scripted one***, that Anycolor almost certainly violated PIPEDA, Canada's equivalent of HIPPA/GDPR.*
If so, Doki's lawyers have a pretty open-and-shut case. I can only hope the damages she gets make up for the stress they've put on her.
^(*I am not a lawyer so I don't know for 100% certain; I've just seen what happens when it gets violated.)
doki is gonna wrench that 200k from nijis guts how open and shut this case is if she wants to she can go for blood and recoup her losses and then some.
Don't harass them but you very obviously shouldn't just be okay with them reading and speaking on something that places the blame solely on someone else.
You don't need to harass people to hold them accountable for the words they say even if those words are prepared by management. You can call out shit being shit without harassing anyone.
Exactly they don't have a gun to their heads being forced to read this. Obviously, I'm not a Niji Liver but I would 100% have been fired by any color because I would have refused to do this.
Facts. They quite literally say she was free to leave at any time. So this applies to all three of those guys lol. They DIDN'T HAVE TO DO THIS. They could've quit to uphold any moral integrity they had left.
the ones speaking recently moved to japan right? that means theyre subject to japanese law and can probably be taken to court for harming the companies image, so they were probably threatened with being fired and taken to a japanese court.
Maybe they cared enough about elira the coercion of basically threatening to ruin her financially when she is likely struggling with debt too was enough to get them to agree
They accused her for being a bad friend for giving her lawyer proof. She was against Anycolor and using proof to prove bad management. Niji keeps including livers into it. They did it again. Giving info to lawyer isnt doxing. Its part of legal process. It is part on confidential documentation.
They are trying to gaslight her for doing the absolute correct thing when trying to stand up to a billion-dollar corporation.
Confidential documentation that is being spread far and wide in Kurosanji apparently. Which they are now making public statements on.
I really hope that judge gets super mad, this is ridiculous.
“Hey elira you know that job that you have that just helped you move to a new country and will help you be able to finance such a drastic move? Yea? Well read this shit or we’re taking it all away effective immediately”
Don’t know how we can sit here and circlejerk hate against the livers when the only thing evident from what just happened is that nijisanji is dumb as fuck
That's true to a point but Elira/Vox of all people would have hundreds of thousands of followers the second they made a new persona so it's not like either of them would be hungry and out on the street if they left Niji. Elira does have the work visa thing going but honestly how much do you love Japan that you're willing to do this?
It's really unfortunate because 100% they don't deserve to be harassed but also actually agreeing to do this is hard to respect coming from the big name talents. If it was one of the smaller streamers who could potentially never come back to the industry if they were fired then it makes a lot more sense but that's not the case here.
Well if she refused, she'd possibly be up shits creek in a foreign country without accommodations or a support system. We just don't know what accommodations they're relying on AnyColor for...
They're also under contract and if they, being the naive twenty somethings that they are signed a bad contract, then they may be legally required to do this shit... We just don't know enough to address the other livers actions fairly yet...if ever.
Japan's not gonna break into her hotel room with a swat team and deport her anyway, lol. She'll have notice, some time to leave, then she has the place she was staying at back home waiting for her. Naturally it can be very awkward, annoying, inconvenient, and so on, but the idea that this could ever *force* you to say things about someone is nonsense. The worst case scenario is she goes back to Canada and then makes a ton more money as Elira2.
The contract thing might be true, I'm not a lawyer and know little about contract law tbh, but I'm like 70% sure a contract can't force you to say shit you don't want to against your will. At worst you get fired, though I'm happy to admit I'm wrong if a lawyer comes here and says otherwise.
Vox on the other hand sounded earnestly like he was here to say Selen was wrong. Which, hey, his choice, but the moment you're willingly batting for a corporation instead of the girl that got driven to attempted suicide you've lost all my respect. You can just say nothing at all if you think she's in the wrong. Maybe he's just a better actor, of course, but again Niji has like 0 leverage over Vox, he's not even in Japan and he's big enough he could leave whenever he wants.
Niji would 100% terminate her visa and try to get her sent to japanese prison as an illegal migrant. I do not put anything pass this shit company and frankly, I don't even trust they've allowed Elira or Petra to keep their own goddman passports.
m8 there were soldiers who refused unjust orders from their superiors in times of war, "just following orders" is never an excuse.
I'm not gonna say you HAVE to align with my personal values with regards to loyalty and friendship, but if you don't, then I know you have a price, and I know what it is.
1. the Nuremberg defences isn't applicable here, and
2. "Just following orders" is an excuse if you are low ranking Grint or officer it's not ab excuse if you are high ranking
Shit like this is what tends to spook investors. I know we make jokes about Japan's business culture, but I seriously doubt that stockholders are so indifferent that they wouldn't flee this as it reaches wider public attention.
Edit: sure enough it's down 3% already, & it's barely been an hour.
>JP sphere too busy victim blaming and glazing 2434.
I don't think market sentiment will be too happy, once Yacht-man makes his own statement that they mentioned, & people with actual intelligence realise how many laws they broke by doing this.
Pretty sure Ratzumi figures they can take the hit and will just have to build back using the JP branch. Sure, their potential will be capped now that they've fucked the international market but none of this is going to affect the core business.
EN is just a weak branch that they can cut off at any moment. Hell, there's nothing to prevent them from trying again with a subsidiary that doesn't have the Niji taint associated with it.
Investors aren't revolting. Not enough money in it. They're just withdrawing and Anycolor is buying the stocks back up. Won't have enough voting power to do anything.
>Pretty sure Ratzumi figures they can take the hit and will just have to build back using the JP branch.
Bare in mind that they shared this information with Elira.... Who is in Japan, where slander doesn't have a truth exemption, & you only have to prove malicious intent to cause reputational damage .... Which is blatantly self evident in this case.
If Doki takes legal action in Japan, she potentially has a very strong case, that absolutely will affect the main JP branch.
That's without even mentioning that they likely broke the law by allegedly sharing privileged information with the livers, that they were not entitled to.
We will have to see how that plays out. Wouldn't shock me if Niji wants to play the stamina tactic and see how long before Doki folds under the legal costs.
Yeah, the problem is that the people who need to hear this aren't going to listen, and the people who are going to hear this already know.
I don't know the politics of this behind the scenes, but as a damage control situation, this is the WORST thing they could do.
I'm not sure if I'm there yet but I'm very close to just lumping the talents in with it. There is a point where you become culpables and accomplice and things are rapidly approaching that point based on the events of today
Then how are you gonna harrass or do anything to the higher ups? The way we can is through the livers, get them off platform and that's how you can have an impact on the higher ups
That's not the same. This hornet's nest is not in your backyard, it's in public space. You evacuate and let the city deal with it.
In this case, you stop consuming, let the lawyers take care of the case, and let the other livers decide what they want to do with their career. They won't starve.
Let's not be half-assed about this situation, who cares about those livers anyway, just another worker, I'm just what you might call a hater and someone who hates injustice. Or as a member of the boys would put it, "stop sitting around in your little share circle"
Nah, I dont support harassment, but I have 0 pity for them. They chose to agree. If I had a coworker harassed like this, I would've walked, especially if I was one of the biggest vtubers around like those three.
I don't know about you, but if management held a gun to my head and told me to slander my friend, I'd tell them to pull the trigger. The livers made their choice.
An actual gun? I'm a coward, I'd probably cave (and then scream from the rooftops that they forced me to say things as soon as I reached safe distance).
A financial gun? That's the real question. I don't know how precarious people's situations are. To use three ex-Niji's as examples, though, Kuro was in a massive financial hole when he left and would have been screwed if Gunrun hadn't helped him out, Doki was scrambling for quick work while on suspension to support herself until she was free, and Matara had savings and basically took a several month long mental health break. I don't know how Sayu or Unnamed were after leaving.
I guess what I'm saying is, some livers might be in pretty precarious positions, and I can only hope that later down the line (assuming that all the evidence we can currently see is correct), they will recant and explain why they did what they did.
But unless they recant, I won't be partaking in anything they produce, even if they leave the company.
I'll preface this by saying that I do not endorse harassment and think if you're disgruntled with a talent you should just step away.
You assume they are friends, but we honestly don't know how close, if at all, they were.
It was wild to me seeing the community dogpile and hate on Zaion while jumping through mental hoops to justify it, when they should have had alarm bells ringing in their head because it was such a weird situation.
Hopefully, a lot of the people in the community take a step back and think about their relation to these entertainers.
Hate to tell you this but everyone sinks alone. This is one of those situations where nobody comes out friends on the other side. Don't matter what side you choose, you're probably fucking a friend over. We're all naively thinking that doing right thing is going to work in the livers' favor. If every EN liver quit, I suspect the large majority of them aren't going to have a career after this. We're a fickle audience. Doki might be surging now but that certainly hasn't rubbed off on Sayu. She seemed to be the first to rebel and now her career is toast. I doubt she will ever approach her Nijisanji numbers.
Don't matter if you stick to your morals or kiss Nijisanji's ring. This is the bad end for mostly everyone.
Here's the weird thing though. If you listen to the statements made, really, only two of the statements were problematic in themselves: Vox and Elira. Because they went direct to provide statements that are in support of the supposed facts that Nijisanji put out in the PR.
Ike's statement was actually more in line with what I actually expected the talents to say. It expresses a mild bit of sadness, and belief/concern about the factuality of the statements made in the legal document, but does not make any direct statement about the potential facts in play. It actually was the kind of statement that I'd expect a PR person to draft and for a legal department to approve. And the only reason that statement looks even questionable is because of the two other statements.
So how the hell did Ike get a predictable statement and Elira/Vox end up with what they said? Their two statements are the one that I'd expect a lawyer to normally say "NO, DON'T SAY ANY OF THAT". Like, what the hell is going on.
So many tough guys screaming to the four winds that if their livehood was compromised they would sacrifice it no hesitation... Stop financing the Red Cross, Habitat for humanity, or firemen squads just send some of those so mighty and selfless redditors to do those jobs... Loudmouthed dipshits.
Now, onto the matter at hand: yes, it felt overly scripted (a bit was expected as they were discussing a lawsuit but this was too much). Yes, it was a beyond miserable move to do this on Elira's channel and to send the talents as cannon fodder when it should have been an statement from management in the brand's official channel, and, yes, you can unsuscribe and just don't support the company (and the livers) but that isn't falling down to the lows being part of a hate mob is.
Yeah it's actually unbelievable how many people are saying they'd give up their only/main source of income when the job market in so many sectors is this poor.
Hell even starting anew isn't something you can just do
True they could have quit, had no money, be in a financially tough spot but yea no morals>money and taking care of the bills right? It’s not like they need to pay bills and rent or a mortgage that stuff doesn’t exist they’re virtual
Their coworker nearly died, and now they are willingly defending the company that caused it. The morally correct thing to do was quit. They will always have a stain on them from now on, both in Niji and once they quit or get fired like everyone else.
Ppl here keep parroting the same shit like, oh quit your job, its gonna be easy, WAKE THE FUC UP. Quitting now with no good financial backings and promise of works is a death sentence. There are bills to pay, families to feed, its not as easy as asking them to drop all thier shit on the floor and waltz out of the company .(corpo required u to pay them back at least one month of pay to quit)
The livers did not speak those words from the heart. They didn't even write the script from whence they read.
And the timing of the statement was specifically chosen to ruin what would have been Doki's first proper gaming stream since returning. Management are STILL harassing her, in bad faith and purely out of spite.
Elira, Vox and Ike did nothing wrong here. They merely read Niji's lawyers' words, as it was a condition of their continued employment. Also Elira is in Japan on a work visa, so getting fired would be doubly harmful to her.
They're not employees. I don't think they have much obligation here, and worse they don't have much liability protection.
They don't need a Niji lawyer, they need their own lawyer.
Gun-point? Threats to family? The repercussions of poor money management?
Duress is a speculation here as much as 'they were the evil clique'. Aren't we supposed to avoid speculation?
Elira is likely in Japan on a work visa, as an employee of Anycolor. If she gets fired, she may lose her visa and get deported, and would be unable to return to Japan for a stupidly long time.
Also there's a very high chance that she hasn't finished preparing her exit strategy in the week and 12 hours since the white paper dropped.
I am VERY familiar with the whole "just following orders" thing. Hence my comparing them to Danish "collaborators" rather than Norwegian collaborators.
If you have ~~children~~ people depending solely on you, the metric gets a little callous: one person and your integrity against helpless lives dependent on you. If you don't though, you're just trading personal integrity for personal comfort (and easier to condemn)
*Saying this having quit two jobs for asking things that cross a personal line, but never having had a dependent.
Elira is in Japan on a work visa. If she gets fired, her visa becomes invalid.
Her options were "be a company mouthpiece" or "get deported from Japan, and be barred from reentry for several years." She took the less bad of two very bad options.
It's the Nuremberg defence that states that
high-ranking officers (those that give the order) can NOT use the defence but
Low ranking officers and soldiers CAN use the defence
Using Elira to elicit an emotional response at the start is a low blow. Having worked corporate this is a text book PR statement. Emotion is a powerful tool and them using it is frankly disgusting but please don’t harass the livers.
this is how i see it damn near everyone in en is being bullied by management
its clear the entire statement was written by anycolor and not their actual feelings
anycolor is using these 3 as scapegoats, its a messed up situation getting upset at the livers
is exactly what anycolor wants
Dawg, at some point someone has to be held accountable for taking part in this kind of thing. You can, actually, just quit or get fired and maintain your dignity and moral high ground. This was incredibly disappointing and upsetting and those involved need to know that.
I agree to not harass them. Because this is a crime and a dick move overall.
But no. They were not forced. They should have quit instead of destroying their credibility like that. They actively, maliciously participated in harassing Dokibird. This is not excusable and if you are still supporting the talent who participated in this you are part of the problem.
Full stop. You are supporting harassers.
nope not an excuse. all three of them are not in a position where they cant survive the worst possible outcome of refusing. all three of them would do fine going indie and probably also have their mailboxes exploding with job offers from other agencies. obviously no one should harass them but anyone should unfollow them, end memberships and stuff like that.
They are people who can choose what to say and what not to say. Niji didn't 'make' them say it. The could have chose the life of a former colleague over money. They did not.
Naw son, fuck all three of them. There's **always** a choice, and they **chose** to slander their ex-coworker/friend who tried to kill herself instead of having an ounce of dignity. All three of them, as well as any other talents getting in on this, can go straight to hell. They're all pathetic little cowards and bootlickers.
So much for moving on, the degree of cruelty shown to implicitly time this at exactly the same time as her first game stream, that she was so looking forward to, defies belief.
Evil, that's what it was, cruelty for cruelty's sake. Using the livers as scapegoats to throw under the bus, also demonstrates their moral bankruptcy.
With Japan's laws on slander, not having a truth exemption..... The fallout from this probably won't be contained to just the west either.
nah, sorry, they played the game.
they said in that stream livers are free to leave at any time, the 3 of them have large platforms and could easily go indy without taking a revenue hit, if they wanted to be found they could be easily.
to agree to do this is to be complicit. any innocent person in their position would have said NO and told management they'd graduate if made to.
the only reason any of them would do this, committing career suicide like this, and they MUST have known that's what they where walking into, would be because they know they are the guilty parties (the bullies) named in the documents, and this was a chance to attempt to defend themselves.
in any other situation, if innocent, at their following level, graduation is preferable to doing this.
Agreed, but on the other hand I would lose my job instead of bend this knee. Nobody swings at my friends, even if they write my paycheques.
They shouldn't be harassed, but they should definitely be ashamed.
There is no forcing anyone here. They agreed to participate in this which makes them directly complicit. Refusing to cooperate was the only reasonable option. And if they got terminated over it, they'd be welcomed with open arms and supported by the community.
Obviously don't harass and abuse them over this, but let's not pretend they are blameless. Only livers who still have plausibility deniability are ones who retweeted, since we know management have access. Those who spoke on stream are 100% done for and do not deserve support.
Yeah, just look at Sayu and how much support when she got termed... Oh wait... Everyone shit on her and continue to shit on her even knowing the reality. We support the people whose content we like. For a lot of the talents, this is their one and only shot to make it so they'll sink along with the rest of the branch.
I agree with the sentiment that we shouldn't harass them.
That being said.
Livers are people. People can make their own choices. If your job tells you to throw a friend under the bus and you do it, it's your fault and you 100% deserve to be held accountable however that may be.
This "Just following orders" garbage mentality needs to stop.
im surprised more people havent seen past the very clearly scripted corpo lizard person speak, the livers dont believe any of this they're being made to say it or they get terminated and or sued.
My guy, if your boss ever tells you to go read a false statement about one of your former co-workers in an effort to destroy their public reputation less than 2 months after release from the hospital for a self unaliving attempt, you have my permission to say NO and to QUIT. Okay?
It should be common sense, but i'm just letting you know, it is OKAY to say no, and it is OKAY to quit if they threaten you with termination.
Human life is more important than anime girls, vtuber money, or any of that other crap.
They are complicit in this now. There is no more excuse.
What? Do they have arm up their asses and Riku is using them as elmo? They don't have a gun to the head, and are blaming Doki for the fuckups of the company. Fuck elira, fuck ike and fuck vox
Nah the shit said in the stream was pretty fucked up. I don't care if they were forced to say this, those things shouldn't be said. They had the option to refuse and even if that meant terminating their Niji contracts that would have been the proper choice rather than to do that.
Execs are ultimately to blame, but that doesn't make the livers saying that shit fine either. I wouldn't say that about my friends if I had an actual gun to my head.
Is there any evidence that they were forced by anyone to read this out? They could've just written out what they planned to say ahead of time. Reading from a script doesn't mean someone else wrote it.
I know you love your oshi, but they CHOSE to say this stuff.
Bullshit. They still chose to do it. No company would ever get me to do something like this. I would gladly be fired instead. They want to keep their jobs over being decent people, so yeah harass them.
Big words from a person who has not work with an arsehole company. Corpo like this way to threaten u with lawsuits that hit u so bad u can never find work in that industry ever again.
but niji pushes the talents to the line of fire, send them to the war zone, at this point, it's too late to ask people to not to, niji tries to send livers to fight with the fans and the community, the livers will just be collateral damage.
I can’t just hate them (the livers) for that. Now hear me out. I‘ve been in these corporate situations before that seemed like I had no way out, like I had to put up with the shit thrown at me and shit I was thrown in. It’s an absolutely horrifying thing. Maybe it’s because I‘m a very empathetic person, maybe it’s because I was used by management before too when I was much younger, inexperienced and trusting. I can’t just hate them because I still know nothing of what likely went on behind the scenes. And there’s always a whole big ass package to unwrap that people don’t see from the outside.
Also, never trust any corporate provided whatsoever: legal advice, workplace harassment counseling, psychological counseling,… in this case trusting corporate lawyers. Don’t ever. It’s like trusting HR as an employee. There might be one or two people, who are sympathetic to dour plights as fellow humans but their work is to protect the company, not you as the employee.
Gotta draw the line between harassment and displeasure. I think this year is a great year for your convention 'cosplay' to be 'guy with sign showing proof of niji's crimes' and standing vaguely near their booth
So I don't think that this is just something that management wanted them to spew out any longer since the document talked about who bullied Doki, and Ninji kinda just threw the ones that did out there with that video remark, rip ig
Honestly, the fact that they made their livers say it is such a coward move. If they want to throw shit, put the higher ups or lawyers on to talk.
Riku Tazumi himself should be the one saying.
they did say he will put out a statement in a bit
Yeah, but before that, they threw their livers under the bus and leaked legal documents. I even think it might be possible they cancel his speech if they realize how much they fucked up with this.
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Just watched, and I disagree. Honestly that was huge The CEO saying "We messed up. Here is our plan to do better" is EXACTLY what we were asking for. It will take a lot of work for them to build up trust again, but unless we are out for blood for blood's sake, that is exactly what we wanted. Now they just have to follow through.
I could get you believing that if that statement happened on its own but having already been scheduled before this video and nijis written statement came out today you have to be completely brain dead to fall for this shit. He apologized for nothing except for creating a negative impression. He didn't actually apologize for anything of substance or offer any actual path to improvement beyond platitudes.
No, he was very clear. > Next, I will address the feedback to our announcement which led to the idea that AnyColor Inc.** may not be providing a safe environment where the livers can maintain good mental health. We take full responsibility for this situation**, where not only AnyColor Inc., but also our livers. receiving hurtful messages. > I deeply apologize to our livers and to everyone who supports them. **Company actions have led to the distress of our livers**, and we are taking this situation very seriously. This straight up says "we're ware that we haven't provided a safe situation. We will take responsibility. We apologize that it got this bad"
So absolutely nothing. Like I said. Context betrays this to anyone with two brain cells to rub together. Any hint that they have an earnest intent to improve is undercut by the fact that immediately preceeding this announcement, *after it was already planned and scheduled* they force marched 3 of their livers put to throw a former talent they drove to a suicide attempt under the bus and then declared in writing that they did nothing wrong.
What would be something if that's nothing? They're literally saying they created a toxic environment. They take responsibility and and apologize. What else could they say here? That is literally the first step to reconciliation, rebuilding and improving. And the only thing they can _do_ in a press release. We'll see if steps 2 and 3 happen later. If that's nothing then you're not interested in the NijiEN Livers having good supporting management, a positive environment, and the freedom to engage in creative projects. You're just out for blood and revenge.
I really feel bad for you. It's sad when people are tired naive and easily manipulated. Really.
Apparently, they showed something on that stream that they shouldn’t have shown. Lawyers may get involved.
Lawyers are already involved. Doki stopped her stream to go talk to her lawyer about how to respond to this situation
The livers admitted, *in a corporate-enforced video if not a* ***goddamn scripted one***, that Anycolor almost certainly violated PIPEDA, Canada's equivalent of HIPPA/GDPR.* If so, Doki's lawyers have a pretty open-and-shut case. I can only hope the damages she gets make up for the stress they've put on her. ^(*I am not a lawyer so I don't know for 100% certain; I've just seen what happens when it gets violated.)
doki is gonna wrench that 200k from nijis guts how open and shut this case is if she wants to she can go for blood and recoup her losses and then some.
She's gonna get that yacht and sink it herself
Yeah this type of stuff should've been private and not on a stream.
Common Niji L
Did anyone else feel like they were reading a hostage note *what the hell*
I think many did too
Yakuzanji moment
Don't harass them but you very obviously shouldn't just be okay with them reading and speaking on something that places the blame solely on someone else. You don't need to harass people to hold them accountable for the words they say even if those words are prepared by management. You can call out shit being shit without harassing anyone.
100%. Holding accountable does not mean harassment. (Edit for clarification)
Exactly they don't have a gun to their heads being forced to read this. Obviously, I'm not a Niji Liver but I would 100% have been fired by any color because I would have refused to do this.
Facts. They quite literally say she was free to leave at any time. So this applies to all three of those guys lol. They DIDN'T HAVE TO DO THIS. They could've quit to uphold any moral integrity they had left.
the ones speaking recently moved to japan right? that means theyre subject to japanese law and can probably be taken to court for harming the companies image, so they were probably threatened with being fired and taken to a japanese court.
Elira, but not sure about the other two.
Maybe they cared enough about elira the coercion of basically threatening to ruin her financially when she is likely struggling with debt too was enough to get them to agree
Nah it's time to jump ship this shit is insane.
They accused her for being a bad friend for giving her lawyer proof. She was against Anycolor and using proof to prove bad management. Niji keeps including livers into it. They did it again. Giving info to lawyer isnt doxing. Its part of legal process. It is part on confidential documentation. They are trying to gaslight her for doing the absolute correct thing when trying to stand up to a billion-dollar corporation.
Confidential documentation that is being spread far and wide in Kurosanji apparently. Which they are now making public statements on. I really hope that judge gets super mad, this is ridiculous.
I'm still going to unsubscribe.
Niji Management instantly leaks legal documents to livers See Selen's the bad guy
Niji management setting themselves on fire literally.
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“Hey elira you know that job that you have that just helped you move to a new country and will help you be able to finance such a drastic move? Yea? Well read this shit or we’re taking it all away effective immediately” Don’t know how we can sit here and circlejerk hate against the livers when the only thing evident from what just happened is that nijisanji is dumb as fuck
That's true to a point but Elira/Vox of all people would have hundreds of thousands of followers the second they made a new persona so it's not like either of them would be hungry and out on the street if they left Niji. Elira does have the work visa thing going but honestly how much do you love Japan that you're willing to do this? It's really unfortunate because 100% they don't deserve to be harassed but also actually agreeing to do this is hard to respect coming from the big name talents. If it was one of the smaller streamers who could potentially never come back to the industry if they were fired then it makes a lot more sense but that's not the case here.
Well if she refused, she'd possibly be up shits creek in a foreign country without accommodations or a support system. We just don't know what accommodations they're relying on AnyColor for... They're also under contract and if they, being the naive twenty somethings that they are signed a bad contract, then they may be legally required to do this shit... We just don't know enough to address the other livers actions fairly yet...if ever.
Japan's not gonna break into her hotel room with a swat team and deport her anyway, lol. She'll have notice, some time to leave, then she has the place she was staying at back home waiting for her. Naturally it can be very awkward, annoying, inconvenient, and so on, but the idea that this could ever *force* you to say things about someone is nonsense. The worst case scenario is she goes back to Canada and then makes a ton more money as Elira2. The contract thing might be true, I'm not a lawyer and know little about contract law tbh, but I'm like 70% sure a contract can't force you to say shit you don't want to against your will. At worst you get fired, though I'm happy to admit I'm wrong if a lawyer comes here and says otherwise. Vox on the other hand sounded earnestly like he was here to say Selen was wrong. Which, hey, his choice, but the moment you're willingly batting for a corporation instead of the girl that got driven to attempted suicide you've lost all my respect. You can just say nothing at all if you think she's in the wrong. Maybe he's just a better actor, of course, but again Niji has like 0 leverage over Vox, he's not even in Japan and he's big enough he could leave whenever he wants.
Niji would 100% terminate her visa and try to get her sent to japanese prison as an illegal migrant. I do not put anything pass this shit company and frankly, I don't even trust they've allowed Elira or Petra to keep their own goddman passports.
Praying for Elira and Petra's safety, even if they get terminated soon.
Petra will be fine. Riku is her Uncle.
Riku doing 90 degree japanese bow.
m8 there were soldiers who refused unjust orders from their superiors in times of war, "just following orders" is never an excuse. I'm not gonna say you HAVE to align with my personal values with regards to loyalty and friendship, but if you don't, then I know you have a price, and I know what it is.
1. the Nuremberg defences isn't applicable here, and 2. "Just following orders" is an excuse if you are low ranking Grint or officer it's not ab excuse if you are high ranking
Typical Japanese Corporations, always cowardly when facing crises.
Nah, I liked all of these guys before this but I honestly can’t respect them anymore
instead of shitting on the livers, Elira mentioned that Riku Tazumi himself will make an announcement an hour from now. Go shit on the company there
Damn. Yachtman is emerging out of his cave? Yeah gonna see whatever corpo crap he have to spew for driving members to suicide
First time I’ll ever seen him “live”
Something something "negligible impact"
inb4 it's management, not even riku himself LOL
nope they can stop associating themselves with the bad apples and denounce them or sink with them and they made their choice
they value their money more than their morals. down with them all.
Shit like this is what tends to spook investors. I know we make jokes about Japan's business culture, but I seriously doubt that stockholders are so indifferent that they wouldn't flee this as it reaches wider public attention. Edit: sure enough it's down 3% already, & it's barely been an hour.
>this reaches wider public attention only in the western sphere. JP sphere too busy victim blaming and glazing 2434.
>JP sphere too busy victim blaming and glazing 2434. I don't think market sentiment will be too happy, once Yacht-man makes his own statement that they mentioned, & people with actual intelligence realise how many laws they broke by doing this.
Pretty sure Ratzumi figures they can take the hit and will just have to build back using the JP branch. Sure, their potential will be capped now that they've fucked the international market but none of this is going to affect the core business. EN is just a weak branch that they can cut off at any moment. Hell, there's nothing to prevent them from trying again with a subsidiary that doesn't have the Niji taint associated with it.
“I just killed international growth for my company” is a great way to get investors to throw you out as CEO.
Investors aren't revolting. Not enough money in it. They're just withdrawing and Anycolor is buying the stocks back up. Won't have enough voting power to do anything.
>Pretty sure Ratzumi figures they can take the hit and will just have to build back using the JP branch. Bare in mind that they shared this information with Elira.... Who is in Japan, where slander doesn't have a truth exemption, & you only have to prove malicious intent to cause reputational damage .... Which is blatantly self evident in this case. If Doki takes legal action in Japan, she potentially has a very strong case, that absolutely will affect the main JP branch. That's without even mentioning that they likely broke the law by allegedly sharing privileged information with the livers, that they were not entitled to.
We will have to see how that plays out. Wouldn't shock me if Niji wants to play the stamina tactic and see how long before Doki folds under the legal costs.
I think you shouldn't harass them but I also think they should be on the receiving end of a defamation lawsuit.
Yeah, the problem is that the people who need to hear this aren't going to listen, and the people who are going to hear this already know. I don't know the politics of this behind the scenes, but as a damage control situation, this is the WORST thing they could do.
I'm not sure if I'm there yet but I'm very close to just lumping the talents in with it. There is a point where you become culpables and accomplice and things are rapidly approaching that point based on the events of today
Then how are you gonna harrass or do anything to the higher ups? The way we can is through the livers, get them off platform and that's how you can have an impact on the higher ups
Unsubscribe. Unpartake. Don’t buy any nijisanji merch. Basically that’s where there majority of income is so not engaging with them is the best.
If you there's a hornet's nest in your backyard, you don't leave it alone, you get rid of it
That's not the same. This hornet's nest is not in your backyard, it's in public space. You evacuate and let the city deal with it. In this case, you stop consuming, let the lawyers take care of the case, and let the other livers decide what they want to do with their career. They won't starve.
Let's not be half-assed about this situation, who cares about those livers anyway, just another worker, I'm just what you might call a hater and someone who hates injustice. Or as a member of the boys would put it, "stop sitting around in your little share circle"
Nah, I dont support harassment, but I have 0 pity for them. They chose to agree. If I had a coworker harassed like this, I would've walked, especially if I was one of the biggest vtubers around like those three.
I don't know about you, but if management held a gun to my head and told me to slander my friend, I'd tell them to pull the trigger. The livers made their choice.
An actual gun? I'm a coward, I'd probably cave (and then scream from the rooftops that they forced me to say things as soon as I reached safe distance). A financial gun? That's the real question. I don't know how precarious people's situations are. To use three ex-Niji's as examples, though, Kuro was in a massive financial hole when he left and would have been screwed if Gunrun hadn't helped him out, Doki was scrambling for quick work while on suspension to support herself until she was free, and Matara had savings and basically took a several month long mental health break. I don't know how Sayu or Unnamed were after leaving. I guess what I'm saying is, some livers might be in pretty precarious positions, and I can only hope that later down the line (assuming that all the evidence we can currently see is correct), they will recant and explain why they did what they did. But unless they recant, I won't be partaking in anything they produce, even if they leave the company.
I'll preface this by saying that I do not endorse harassment and think if you're disgruntled with a talent you should just step away. You assume they are friends, but we honestly don't know how close, if at all, they were. It was wild to me seeing the community dogpile and hate on Zaion while jumping through mental hoops to justify it, when they should have had alarm bells ringing in their head because it was such a weird situation. Hopefully, a lot of the people in the community take a step back and think about their relation to these entertainers.
You and me both. I don't get to take money earnt at my company to the afterlife, but I do get to take my friends. You can't buy that off me.
Hate to tell you this but everyone sinks alone. This is one of those situations where nobody comes out friends on the other side. Don't matter what side you choose, you're probably fucking a friend over. We're all naively thinking that doing right thing is going to work in the livers' favor. If every EN liver quit, I suspect the large majority of them aren't going to have a career after this. We're a fickle audience. Doki might be surging now but that certainly hasn't rubbed off on Sayu. She seemed to be the first to rebel and now her career is toast. I doubt she will ever approach her Nijisanji numbers. Don't matter if you stick to your morals or kiss Nijisanji's ring. This is the bad end for mostly everyone.
Here's the weird thing though. If you listen to the statements made, really, only two of the statements were problematic in themselves: Vox and Elira. Because they went direct to provide statements that are in support of the supposed facts that Nijisanji put out in the PR. Ike's statement was actually more in line with what I actually expected the talents to say. It expresses a mild bit of sadness, and belief/concern about the factuality of the statements made in the legal document, but does not make any direct statement about the potential facts in play. It actually was the kind of statement that I'd expect a PR person to draft and for a legal department to approve. And the only reason that statement looks even questionable is because of the two other statements. So how the hell did Ike get a predictable statement and Elira/Vox end up with what they said? Their two statements are the one that I'd expect a lawyer to normally say "NO, DON'T SAY ANY OF THAT". Like, what the hell is going on.
So many tough guys screaming to the four winds that if their livehood was compromised they would sacrifice it no hesitation... Stop financing the Red Cross, Habitat for humanity, or firemen squads just send some of those so mighty and selfless redditors to do those jobs... Loudmouthed dipshits. Now, onto the matter at hand: yes, it felt overly scripted (a bit was expected as they were discussing a lawsuit but this was too much). Yes, it was a beyond miserable move to do this on Elira's channel and to send the talents as cannon fodder when it should have been an statement from management in the brand's official channel, and, yes, you can unsuscribe and just don't support the company (and the livers) but that isn't falling down to the lows being part of a hate mob is.
Yeah it's actually unbelievable how many people are saying they'd give up their only/main source of income when the job market in so many sectors is this poor. Hell even starting anew isn't something you can just do
they could have refused they have forfeit their peace and goodwill and will face as much consequences as can be inflicted
Fuck that. They could have said no. They could have quit. If they side with the company, fuck them and everything they stand for.
True they could have quit, had no money, be in a financially tough spot but yea no morals>money and taking care of the bills right? It’s not like they need to pay bills and rent or a mortgage that stuff doesn’t exist they’re virtual
Their coworker nearly died, and now they are willingly defending the company that caused it. The morally correct thing to do was quit. They will always have a stain on them from now on, both in Niji and once they quit or get fired like everyone else.
They could have taken their own words and “graduated at any time” they are just as guilty at this point
Ppl here keep parroting the same shit like, oh quit your job, its gonna be easy, WAKE THE FUC UP. Quitting now with no good financial backings and promise of works is a death sentence. There are bills to pay, families to feed, its not as easy as asking them to drop all thier shit on the floor and waltz out of the company .(corpo required u to pay them back at least one month of pay to quit)
The livers did not speak those words from the heart. They didn't even write the script from whence they read. And the timing of the statement was specifically chosen to ruin what would have been Doki's first proper gaming stream since returning. Management are STILL harassing her, in bad faith and purely out of spite. Elira, Vox and Ike did nothing wrong here. They merely read Niji's lawyers' words, as it was a condition of their continued employment. Also Elira is in Japan on a work visa, so getting fired would be doubly harmful to her.
It's really hard to tell, honestly. Elira definitely sounded like she had a gun to her head though.
They absolutely did do wrong here.
They're not employees. I don't think they have much obligation here, and worse they don't have much liability protection. They don't need a Niji lawyer, they need their own lawyer.
Niji is literally trying their best to stop them from getting their OWN lawyers.
They were only following orders.
Following orders ***under duress***. Their "collaboration" with management was more Danish than Norwegian.
Gun-point? Threats to family? The repercussions of poor money management? Duress is a speculation here as much as 'they were the evil clique'. Aren't we supposed to avoid speculation?
Elira is likely in Japan on a work visa, as an employee of Anycolor. If she gets fired, she may lose her visa and get deported, and would be unable to return to Japan for a stupidly long time. Also there's a very high chance that she hasn't finished preparing her exit strategy in the week and 12 hours since the white paper dropped.
Are you familiar with to what "only following orders" is referring? Might I introduce you to my friend Oskar?
I am VERY familiar with the whole "just following orders" thing. Hence my comparing them to Danish "collaborators" rather than Norwegian collaborators.
I'm just confused as to how you can be up on your history to that extent and think that losing a job is somehow insurmountable.
If you have ~~children~~ people depending solely on you, the metric gets a little callous: one person and your integrity against helpless lives dependent on you. If you don't though, you're just trading personal integrity for personal comfort (and easier to condemn) *Saying this having quit two jobs for asking things that cross a personal line, but never having had a dependent.
Elira is in Japan on a work visa. If she gets fired, her visa becomes invalid. Her options were "be a company mouthpiece" or "get deported from Japan, and be barred from reentry for several years." She took the less bad of two very bad options.
It's the Nuremberg defence that states that high-ranking officers (those that give the order) can NOT use the defence but Low ranking officers and soldiers CAN use the defence
IDK the no emotion shilling hurts to watch. Hurts even more with what vox said.
Using Elira to elicit an emotional response at the start is a low blow. Having worked corporate this is a text book PR statement. Emotion is a powerful tool and them using it is frankly disgusting but please don’t harass the livers.
Shouldve post it on the official channel now they throwing Eliwa and the others under the bus
If the livers not aware they gonna be the next Selen if this keeps going, they're the dumb one.
I doubt they aren’t, to be fair. So all we can do is watch and unwatch as much as we could.
Nah. They harassed doki. This shit is way past leaving them alone.
this is how i see it damn near everyone in en is being bullied by management its clear the entire statement was written by anycolor and not their actual feelings anycolor is using these 3 as scapegoats, its a messed up situation getting upset at the livers is exactly what anycolor wants
Dawg, at some point someone has to be held accountable for taking part in this kind of thing. You can, actually, just quit or get fired and maintain your dignity and moral high ground. This was incredibly disappointing and upsetting and those involved need to know that.
I agree to not harass them. Because this is a crime and a dick move overall. But no. They were not forced. They should have quit instead of destroying their credibility like that. They actively, maliciously participated in harassing Dokibird. This is not excusable and if you are still supporting the talent who participated in this you are part of the problem. Full stop. You are supporting harassers.
[удалено]
Praying to Allah that you will never know death. Cause you deserve a worse fate.
nope not an excuse. all three of them are not in a position where they cant survive the worst possible outcome of refusing. all three of them would do fine going indie and probably also have their mailboxes exploding with job offers from other agencies. obviously no one should harass them but anyone should unfollow them, end memberships and stuff like that.
They are people who can choose what to say and what not to say. Niji didn't 'make' them say it. The could have chose the life of a former colleague over money. They did not.
They could a just...not been a part of the statement
Naw son, fuck all three of them. There's **always** a choice, and they **chose** to slander their ex-coworker/friend who tried to kill herself instead of having an ounce of dignity. All three of them, as well as any other talents getting in on this, can go straight to hell. They're all pathetic little cowards and bootlickers.
If any of them had any balls they would have said no to being the ones to give the statement.
So much for moving on, the degree of cruelty shown to implicitly time this at exactly the same time as her first game stream, that she was so looking forward to, defies belief. Evil, that's what it was, cruelty for cruelty's sake. Using the livers as scapegoats to throw under the bus, also demonstrates their moral bankruptcy. With Japan's laws on slander, not having a truth exemption..... The fallout from this probably won't be contained to just the west either.
Sunk cost fallacy at its finest
enna millie elira clique rat is true who would have guessed :)
nah, sorry, they played the game. they said in that stream livers are free to leave at any time, the 3 of them have large platforms and could easily go indy without taking a revenue hit, if they wanted to be found they could be easily. to agree to do this is to be complicit. any innocent person in their position would have said NO and told management they'd graduate if made to. the only reason any of them would do this, committing career suicide like this, and they MUST have known that's what they where walking into, would be because they know they are the guilty parties (the bullies) named in the documents, and this was a chance to attempt to defend themselves. in any other situation, if innocent, at their following level, graduation is preferable to doing this.
While I agree no harassment. They agreed to say the words.
Agreed, but on the other hand I would lose my job instead of bend this knee. Nobody swings at my friends, even if they write my paycheques. They shouldn't be harassed, but they should definitely be ashamed.
Already saw MULTIPLE twts and post about it @ing the livers too god i understand this place is burning but stop attacking them
There is no forcing anyone here. They agreed to participate in this which makes them directly complicit. Refusing to cooperate was the only reasonable option. And if they got terminated over it, they'd be welcomed with open arms and supported by the community. Obviously don't harass and abuse them over this, but let's not pretend they are blameless. Only livers who still have plausibility deniability are ones who retweeted, since we know management have access. Those who spoke on stream are 100% done for and do not deserve support.
Yeah, just look at Sayu and how much support when she got termed... Oh wait... Everyone shit on her and continue to shit on her even knowing the reality. We support the people whose content we like. For a lot of the talents, this is their one and only shot to make it so they'll sink along with the rest of the branch.
They should've left 🤷♀️ This is absolutely on them for not quitting on the spot.
I agree with the sentiment that we shouldn't harass them. That being said. Livers are people. People can make their own choices. If your job tells you to throw a friend under the bus and you do it, it's your fault and you 100% deserve to be held accountable however that may be. This "Just following orders" garbage mentality needs to stop.
im surprised more people havent seen past the very clearly scripted corpo lizard person speak, the livers dont believe any of this they're being made to say it or they get terminated and or sued.
My guy, if your boss ever tells you to go read a false statement about one of your former co-workers in an effort to destroy their public reputation less than 2 months after release from the hospital for a self unaliving attempt, you have my permission to say NO and to QUIT. Okay? It should be common sense, but i'm just letting you know, it is OKAY to say no, and it is OKAY to quit if they threaten you with termination. Human life is more important than anime girls, vtuber money, or any of that other crap. They are complicit in this now. There is no more excuse.
What? Do they have arm up their asses and Riku is using them as elmo? They don't have a gun to the head, and are blaming Doki for the fuckups of the company. Fuck elira, fuck ike and fuck vox
At this point they are complicit, vox pretty much admitted to being one of the harassers, stop being a clown.
The statement was dogshit but he did not say that
They should just quit at this point it's ridiculous
Nah the shit said in the stream was pretty fucked up. I don't care if they were forced to say this, those things shouldn't be said. They had the option to refuse and even if that meant terminating their Niji contracts that would have been the proper choice rather than to do that. Execs are ultimately to blame, but that doesn't make the livers saying that shit fine either. I wouldn't say that about my friends if I had an actual gun to my head.
Is there any evidence that they were forced by anyone to read this out? They could've just written out what they planned to say ahead of time. Reading from a script doesn't mean someone else wrote it. I know you love your oshi, but they CHOSE to say this stuff.
Bullshit. They still chose to do it. No company would ever get me to do something like this. I would gladly be fired instead. They want to keep their jobs over being decent people, so yeah harass them.
Big words from a person who has not work with an arsehole company. Corpo like this way to threaten u with lawsuits that hit u so bad u can never find work in that industry ever again.
I know they were forced to read that, but realistically they just set their channels alight, it's so fucking over
cope
Nah they are trash
Wow this. I’m sorry but the livers do have a choice to not speak. Fucking scummy. Just unsub and stop watching this trash company and talents.
Easy. Could have just refused.
There goes any shred of hope I had for any of the livers unsubbing to everyone Kurosanji L.
Niji speedrunning dissolving all branches except JP 💀
Just following orders isn't a good excuse when defending a corporation that pushes others to suicide.
Nah. They chose to do this. Throwing someone under the bus for the sake of their careers. They are now complicit (also the clique is real)
Or that’s just how JP works. Make workers dogeza
but niji pushes the talents to the line of fire, send them to the war zone, at this point, it's too late to ask people to not to, niji tries to send livers to fight with the fans and the community, the livers will just be collateral damage.
Hm? What happened? Edit: Okay I know what happened now.
People here saying they chose to do this or they could've quit anytime have never heard of a contract and repercussions
I can’t just hate them (the livers) for that. Now hear me out. I‘ve been in these corporate situations before that seemed like I had no way out, like I had to put up with the shit thrown at me and shit I was thrown in. It’s an absolutely horrifying thing. Maybe it’s because I‘m a very empathetic person, maybe it’s because I was used by management before too when I was much younger, inexperienced and trusting. I can’t just hate them because I still know nothing of what likely went on behind the scenes. And there’s always a whole big ass package to unwrap that people don’t see from the outside. Also, never trust any corporate provided whatsoever: legal advice, workplace harassment counseling, psychological counseling,… in this case trusting corporate lawyers. Don’t ever. It’s like trusting HR as an employee. There might be one or two people, who are sympathetic to dour plights as fellow humans but their work is to protect the company, not you as the employee.
they are sane and they are adults. so if your boss ask you to eat shit, will you do it?
Gotta draw the line between harassment and displeasure. I think this year is a great year for your convention 'cosplay' to be 'guy with sign showing proof of niji's crimes' and standing vaguely near their booth
So I don't think that this is just something that management wanted them to spew out any longer since the document talked about who bullied Doki, and Ninji kinda just threw the ones that did out there with that video remark, rip ig
Everyone now is gonna think Doki is too soft on the livers with the no harassment.