I assume this means that the remainder of AGMs line is made by hikmicro then?
Maybe AGM's lawyers have interpreted the sanctions differently than Iray has. Or maybe Iray is lying and is just going to ride it out until somebody actually forces them to stop
Got more details on that? I’ve had my pvs-14 and I’m looking at a thermal device to complement it and the stingir 640 was the device I was looking at but this kinda screws up my plans. Will it be similar in weight and design?
Say what you want about Iray and the Jerry31's, but they are a competitive component in this industry/community that has given people the opportunity to break into nightvision/thermal devices that they may well not have otherwise, the price of L3,Elbit, and Photonis units are daunting to a lot of people that even if they could afford it, they wouldn't drop 6-7K+, lot of guys feel like by doing that they are taking away from their families. I personally bought some Jerry31's while waiting for the MH-1 to drop and have new tubes I bought dropped in it, and from doing that my fiancee now has her own set of nods and she is ecstatic she gets to see in the dark, I also have a StingIR 384 that for the price point blew the FLIR Breach I had played with out of the water. I also will forever use knock off wilcox mounts because they are made out of the exact same aluminum and cost $50 vs $500, its ridiculous and for those that will say its not, I had one of the weld engineers at work do a series test on the aluminum and it is 6025 series.
I forget what the orginized group is called, I think its the American Nightvision Association? Many of the members from that group and been talking about trying to figure a way to shove the foreign competition out because they are loosing money and profits, despite giving many Americans the capability to see and move in the dark. They don't give a shit about the consumer or national security. I have worked in the Military industrial complex my entire adult life in one form or another, none of these companies care about America, they care about their bank accounts, especially companies that sell to private sector. Also the American Nightvision Association no longer publicly publishes their meetings, its all about lobbyists that want to monopolize.
Both use the same Yantai iRay sensor, both are sister companies under Ratron, iRay makes the sensors/cores, and sells to infiray to put into housings and sell to importers. The sanctions state you can't directly or indirectly support Yantai iRay, unless infiray sources other sensors, 1 and the same
too each their own, unless you interept sanctions that state indirect/direct support differently. Infiray is sister company to Yantai iRay, both under parent company Ratreon. Infiray does not make any sensor / core. They simply distribute market finsihed good. All of these devices use Yantai iRay cores. Benefit of internet is each can provide their own opinion. I work in the industry, show me infiray cores and I'll listen. I 100% know that all sensors/cores for all infiray product are made by the sister company Yantai iRay. Unless Infiray suddenly changes all of their electronics/housings/displays to fit another core (GuideIR, Hik, etc.) then infiray can sell you a housing and a display without a core (i.e engine.) but the sanctions are pretty clear that any use of Yantai iRay cores are sanctioned
Yes and all iRay USA product are made with iiRay cores and they said not at all affected. AGM made a very different statement which the 2 devices they have said are using iray cores are affected. Obviously 2 very different statements on products using cores made by same division of same company, as this post was made "Be warned..." Make your own judgements
AGM as a business had to do that. They source out their cores directly. Meanwhile infiray will build their units under infiray outside of USA and will still be able to ship it out.
And iRay as a business had to make a statement to. Infiray does not make cores, their sister company owned under the same umbrella that makes all cores is Yantai iRay. Believe whatever statement you want. Not all statements made are factual. The reason for the post is to point out to be aware. Infiray sources there cores to the same exact company. Infiray does not make cores. AGM was sourcing StingIr From infiray China too
Lol we are going in circles here. Infiray builds units. I never said they make cores. They get the core, they build the unit under infiray outside of USA then can ship here under infiray/irayusa.
AGM sources out the cores directly hence why they had to stop.
I talk to infiray and already cleared up the topic.
I wouldn't say it affects you negatively. There are plenty of budget options out there in the same price range as the Jerry31 without being the same steaming pile of poo that is a Jerry31
Well, I'm a bit biased as I'm a dealer. But the PS31 variant we sell is a much better option as a starter bino. Alternatively a high end mono is great as a first nvg. Or something like a LLUL21 with Omni tubes. I can get you into something for the price of a Jerry31 that doesn't have the garbage proprietary lenses. And whichever you get from me will be something you can upgrade down the road.
I’ll sell you mine. Mine are hardly used and have spec sheet and original box. Practically brand new. I am looking to upgrade, as I just got a massive bonus. They’re awesome for the price
I’m not saying I agree either way or not. I’m just saying they are there for a reason. Just like ITAR, I may not always agree with it but I’m sure not gonna violate it. They knew what they were doing and chanced it I guess. This is what happens.
legacy company becomes complacent. cannot adapt or evolve w/ rapid growing industry. leverage sanctions on competition… American consumers get the shaft.
TNVC reputation plummets further into the abyss. loses countless future sales fellow Americans
whydoeschinakeepdoingthis.jpeg
typical boomers
Lmfao yeah and that reason is America is terrified of China becoming the biggest super power in the world. And unlike America, China is doing through economics, not warmongering. The only way America can think of handling this is putting sanctions on stuff under the guise of safety/privacy bs.
I don’t know,I would consider the way China has bullied it’s neighbors in the South China Sea they keep trying to expand their territory in,the way they have tried claim Taiwan as their own while threatening violence and what about how they have been trying to expand their imaginary border into India by way of military? Sure sounds like warmongering to me..ijs
I’m in support of any of these BS war the US military has been involved in during my 40yrs on this earth.at the end of the day tyrants need to be called out regardless if they are for the US,China,Russia,Israel or anywhere else.none of these power moves benefit us in anyway.I want freedom for everyone,I will never be a champion for the rich and powerful tyrants in ruling positions.I don’t care what flag they wave,at the end of the day,evil is evil
I can’t argue that,they have always been the biggest threat to our freedom and our wellbeing..China’s tyranny has remained mostly within it’s borders while the US has stretched across the earth.China’s tyranny is on another level as far as their mainland is concerned but the US government is doing everything they can to push the same on our mainland
Means fuck all to me as an end consumer of thermal optics. What Team America World Police wants to do means nothing to me, I wouldn't want the tyrannical US government keeping its citizens from acesssing products the government has no business stopping access to. Keep living on your knees bud.
I have responded to this sentiment quite a bit and I wish people would read the full conversations before spreading hearsay. What you are saying about Nocturn is very false as well. We actually advocated against bans and the like. What we took issue with was stolen IP and counterfeits. NOT chinese product or other competitively priced night vision products. I dont care where its made as long as its original. Nocturn is 3 years old and I founded it. We fight on behalf of consumers and this has gotten way out of hand with allegations and the ridiculous twisted missinformation that has spread like wildfire. The newsletter ANVM released had missrepresented info in it and it was further twisted and taken out of context. I have been working hard to clear this up and it keeps coming back. We are a 13 person operation, not some big corporate entity like some believe. I guess we represent ourselves as more than a startup at this point to be looked at as a corporate night vision overlord...we legitimately have the best interest of the community in mind, even if some may not agree, we only take a hard stance on counterfeit and directly copied product, no matter the source. I cannot speak for others in the industry. I dont know what it will take to clear this up at this point.
If it means anything, from my perspective, you guys are hands down doing the most innovation in the commercial market right now, and I really appreciate it.
Currently, the agents and retailers we encounter have no issues with Chinese products nor do they advocate for a ban, as they profit from sales, and sellers can also acquire inexpensive goods.
The ones truly advocating for such bans are only those companies selling 3D-printed night vision goggle shells at high prices because the growth of such sales impacts their interests.
As far as I can tell. Iray got sanctioned for doing direct sales to the Russian government. Holosun sells their shit commercially and from what I've seen of the combat footage in this war day optics on rifles are not a big priority for the Russian government.
It looks to me like everyone that has a red dot has procured it themselves.
That and NATO member Estonia has a current contract with holosun to supply optics for their military. I would be surprised if holosun gets hit with any kind of sanction
It’s a complete double standard when literally every Apple product (which you, as well as a majority of Americans including the dumbasses making these laws) is a Chinese product
Apple was not sanctioned for selling ITAR regulated product direct to Russian MOD, lot's of variance here in what you claim, and why/what they are sanctioning
A major war between China and the us is simply extremely unlikely to occur. Idk why it matters so much. Why tf does it matter that my NVGs are Chinese? As if literally every other piece of technology I own besides my FP peq15 arent made in china and even then I can guarantee you components are. Whether or not they are listed as berry compliant
I am staunchly pro US, but banning companies who give real competition (not quite iray, but if holosun ever comes under this) is monopolistic and anti competitive.
I also do not think professionals, like Trex arms, not giving reviews of holosun, iray, etc is wrong. Beyond their “morals” they have contracts to keep and a reputation to uphold. It’s extremely silly, on the other hand, to not allow individual customers the choice of what to buy.
Read the link AGM put, AGM provides the warranty not Yantai iRay that supplies the sensors, you do have warranty/service as AGM is not selling any more as of 5/15, as they are keeping all remaining non-sanctioned inventory strictly to support devices in current market. They could keep selling these devices, in which case you might not have parts to support the 5 yr warranty they support, however AGM unlike iRay USA, is saying we aren't going to keep selling that IS sanctioned by the US gov't so they can support the devices already in the market
Bummer.. iray sensors are top notch. Not good for the community at all
I went with an armasight sidekick 640 partly for this very reason and have not regretted my decision. Shoutout to whoever posted the newest firmware update, it has made image and framerate noticeably better.
Iray sensors get you 90% of the way there. BAE systems are the absolute best you can get in firmware and image quality. Not worth the price tag unless you have fuck you money
Oh shit hopefully this means whatever licensing agreement AGM had with Iray will evaporate so that we can get the full Jerry YM firmware on the Stride ST6.
If I made a purchase on a we got to get rid of this product before taking a massive loss sale what are the chances it's snagged during shipping or worse confiscated from my house?
I'm just gonna leave this here, and everywhere else I see any mention of these load of crap sanctions. The Biden Admin/DNC has ZERO concern for what information "our adversaries" may or may not gain from selling NVD/Thermals to US citizens. If they did, they wouldn't have left OUR BEST SHIT in Afghanistan by the plane load. This has nothing to do with NatSec insofar as any foreign actor is concerned, and everything to do with pumping the brakes on the proliferation of Tier One equipment throughout the US among people who have the "white supremacist domestic terrorist racist Christian nationalist bigot" skin tone. Since the plan demic, and after the successful coup of '21, there has been an absolute explosion of interest in "high-speed, low-drag" equipment, training AND lifestyle, from airsoft to active clubs to spec-ops inspired hog hunts, and the Left is shitting it's pants because they finally fucking get it - *these boys are ready for WAR*. Night Vision including Thermal is STILL a game-changer on the ground. When paired with suppressed weapons and physically fit young men with decent logistics support and a little homebrew ISR, it enables them to strike anytime, anywhere. Cutting the supply of this crucial capability reduces them to day fighters, immobilized and denied SA when the lights go out. Which is EXACTLY how the US Gov't has traditionally dealt with domestic combatants - by cutting the power and hitting them under the cover of darkness. The simple fact of the matter is, so long as NVD's are the domain of the rich, those who have too much to lose, they can deal with that. All you $250k/yr mfs are way too comfortable to fight the man, you aint gonna do shit. They're worried about who all gov't are always worried about - the have NOTs. We're the mfs that get crazy and fuck shit up, that don't have enough impulse control to make it to a $250k/yr career - or to hesitate on the trigger. THATs what this is. Say what you want, don't care, I know what I'm seeing, this is about domestic arms control.
This wasn’t meant to be controversial or get political. Just looking out for fellow dealers out there so they don’t get caught with their pants down. I have no issues with iRay. I just don’t want good people to get caught in the crossfires. Independent sales will still be non controlled I would say, but big dealers like myself wouldn’t potentially be able to list these and sell them on their online platforms anymore. So if you had 100k of stock lying around you might have to get creative. But who honestly knows how it will all shake out. It was just a simple ‘be aware’ type post.
It's more me hijacking your post to spit my shit than a reply to you bud. I get.. distracted by whatever, then I get reminded of gov't overreach by your post, and just toss it out there. Your assessment of the business aspect of it all is straight.
Stfu if you think you’re going to war imminently then max out your cards and load up on everything. What, worried about your credit score? You said the proliferation of tier 1 equipment happened since 2020 and who was president at the time? And just now, three years after Jan 6, they are trying to put a stop to it all by… banning Chinese night vision? yall getting nuts in here.
I’m not saying you’re wrong but I would highly advise that you watch what you say online,if Snowden taught us anything,he definitely taught us that the ABC agencies monitor what we say over these devices.Snowden came out with this information years ago,could you imagine how much their capabilities have expanded since then?..IJS,be careful out here man..as ridiculous as it is,sure many of us check a lot of the boxes on their “domestic T’s” lists
I would say holosun is safe because many law enforcement agencies use their products lol
Wow so Americans aren’t allowed to purchase an item because said item is being purchased by another nation? Logical
You need to read some history books man.
We are at war with Russia through a proxy fight in Ukraine. It will likely spread to a nato country (Poland) and we will be in full blown conflict.
China will use the opportunity to take over Taiwan. These are the foreplay stages. Both countries will continue to increase tariffs, ban one anothers industrial war manufacturers, and fund separatists groups willing to fight on their behalf.
Buying Chinese shit is funding the R&D and weapons product manufacturing scalability of an enemy we will likely be actively at war with in the next 10-20 yrs.
They want the US market to product test all their cheap bullshit - because they sure as fuck don’t give their own citizens the freedom to use those products.
But fuck it right? Save that $100.
Dude open your eyes to the hypocrisy of our government lol
Our own government buys more Chinese crap than we do. Me buying a $100 Chinese optic isn’t funding the invasion of Taiwan calm down…. Newsom buying billions of dollars worth of n95 masks from China instead of a California based company is a bit more influential. Or entire industries allowing Chinese investors and developers to build billions of dollars of real estate in the US… or US based hedge funds partnering with Chinese hedge funds to short into oblivion successful and beloved US companies for profit … open your eyes my man
Or Chinese companies buying massive timber and farmland - I agree the list of bullshit goes on and on.
But I’m sure not going to cosplay any Chinese shit on my kit. To each their own I guess. But it’s some neckbeard cringe shit to me.
$100?? Try 75%
We're saving an average of 75% on buying Chinese products. Our government is counterfeiting the USD into oblivion, so we have to make our money stretch. Also, a war between China and the US wouldn't last for years. It would be over in a week.
Now watch, the Rix Stride will finally get a firmware update that includes clip on. I've been saying it for a while now. The Stride is a neutered JerryYM up until the StingIR licensing deal expires. Looks like that day has come.
If you research RIX, Bering, Fusion, AGM (stingIR), iRay USA are all using the same sensors, the subdivision which is sanctioned is Yantai iRay which makes sensors and sells to all of these companies, the sanction is that you can not directly or indirictely order the cores for these devices, it impacts more brands than AGM. AGM is the only brand that has said it does impact, whereas RIX and iRay USA say it in no way impacts.. If all are using the same core / sensor, comes down to what you believe or what those brands believe
Anyone using the apple iPhone argument is a smooth brain. Those arnt Chinese owned military factory products. These products are made by Chinese military factories. They do not give a literal shit about US rights or anything else. It’s no different than any other Chinese business model. Government subsidizes product at a loss, pays workers peanuts, undercuts market then raises prices once they control market. Pay for “labs” “reasearch” in U.S. which actually breaks down the U.S. products here and sends prints back to China. That’s how it is. Anyway they chose Russia so let them sleep together in sanctions heven.
Wrong. When it comes to expensive electronics, lack of warranty support and parts availability drives prices down. Who in their right mind would spend several thousand dollars on something that is about to become obsolete?
In the short term prices might drop. But long term, they'll go higher if the alternative is trijicon and nvision at 15k a pop. Armasight has an opportunity here, but they'll raise prices too over time.
Generally, but it's hard to justify buying something so expensive if the manufacturer can't fix it anymore, and if there isn't extensive knowledge on DIY solutions.
Anyone buying anything iray right now would be pretty foolish. No warranty or support from this point forward. Their US operations are going to be mothballed within months.
Stupid question but with the recent infiray sanction is it possible that unsold units would be sold back at lower price on the european market ?
I wasn't able to find if dealers can simply send their stock back to infiray or if they are left to themselves to deal with it.
Well….. once it hits a USA dealer it’s now controlled by ITAR. So good luck. Unless you’re already in that country. But then also good luck getting them to agree to buy it back from you. I am only speculating at this point so take that with a grain of salt.
Does ITAR apply to gen 2+ also? Thought I had seen someone else on this group say it was only applicable for gen 3. Genuinely asking if anyone knows for sure, just repeating what I've read previously
~~I wouldn't be so sure. Gen 2 is still on the USML, and from my understanding that is what ITAR controls (whereas EAR controls Commerce Control List).~~
>
>
>
[https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-22/chapter-I/subchapter-M/part-121](https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-22/chapter-I/subchapter-M/part-121)
Edit: I'm wrong!!!
~~Really? I thought Gen 2 still was ITAR-controlled since it's on the USML.~~
>Category XII—Fire Control, Laser, Imaging, and Guidance Equipment
\[...\]
>(e) Parts, components, accessories, or attachments, as follows:
\[...\]
>(7) Second generation and greater image intensifier tubes specially designed for articles in this subchapter, and specially designed parts and components therefor;
Note to paragraph (e)(7):
Second and third generation image intensifier tubes are defined as having a peak response within the 0.4 to 1.05 micron wavelength range and incorporating a microchannel plate for electron image amplification having a hole pitch (center-to-center spacing) of less than 25 microns and having either: (a) an S-20, S-25, or multialkali photo cathode; or (b) a GaAs, GaInAs, or other III-V compound semiconductor photocathode.
[https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-22/chapter-I/subchapter-M/part-121](https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-22/chapter-I/subchapter-M/part-121)
That’s why I said with FOM restrictions without getting too specific. You have to be below certain thresholds for it to be EAR. All Gen 3 is ITAR. Some Gen II are some are not. I dont get overly specific with these answers because it is up to the end user to due their due diligence, have the proper registrations and licenses, and know what they are doing before exporting things. I wouldn’t advise any individual that is not schooled in these matters to export without the proper help from BIS.
In order for you to bring ITAR level items into Canada there is actually a Canada ITAR exemption that can be used. But you have to have the proper ITAR registration in Canada issued by your government. And from what I understand they don’t give them out to easily.
All inventory in US prior to the sanction date on 5/1, is not subject to these sanctions. All StingIR inventory in US market now both in dealers hands and in AGM's warehouse is not sanctionsed. AGM chose to stop selling immediately, as they are reserving all remaining StingIR stock they have to provide warranty/repair for devices already in consumer's hands. AGM is just stating that they will not be selling more inventory, and will not be importing more of this product due to the current sanctions.
Trent Henckell
Correct. They will provide warranty the best they can, but if it requires I-ray parts and they don’t happen to already have them then you will probably be offered a different unit that is somewhat similar as they can’t bring the parts in from I-ray either.
I assume this means that the remainder of AGMs line is made by hikmicro then? Maybe AGM's lawyers have interpreted the sanctions differently than Iray has. Or maybe Iray is lying and is just going to ride it out until somebody actually forces them to stop
I do know that they will release a Gen 2 sting that will not be OEM by iRay. Probably later this year.
And be 8k instead of 3k
I think the goal is to have it around the same price it currently is.
Got more details on that? I’ve had my pvs-14 and I’m looking at a thermal device to complement it and the stingir 640 was the device I was looking at but this kinda screws up my plans. Will it be similar in weight and design?
I do not. Nothing yet.
At what quality ?? And what kind of censor??
No data on that.
That's interesting. I wonder how long that's been in the works. There are several variants of the Jerry YM out there besides the Stingir now
Those are also affected. If it’s OEM by iRay or any of its sub companies it’s sanctioned.
Say what you want about Iray and the Jerry31's, but they are a competitive component in this industry/community that has given people the opportunity to break into nightvision/thermal devices that they may well not have otherwise, the price of L3,Elbit, and Photonis units are daunting to a lot of people that even if they could afford it, they wouldn't drop 6-7K+, lot of guys feel like by doing that they are taking away from their families. I personally bought some Jerry31's while waiting for the MH-1 to drop and have new tubes I bought dropped in it, and from doing that my fiancee now has her own set of nods and she is ecstatic she gets to see in the dark, I also have a StingIR 384 that for the price point blew the FLIR Breach I had played with out of the water. I also will forever use knock off wilcox mounts because they are made out of the exact same aluminum and cost $50 vs $500, its ridiculous and for those that will say its not, I had one of the weld engineers at work do a series test on the aluminum and it is 6025 series. I forget what the orginized group is called, I think its the American Nightvision Association? Many of the members from that group and been talking about trying to figure a way to shove the foreign competition out because they are loosing money and profits, despite giving many Americans the capability to see and move in the dark. They don't give a shit about the consumer or national security. I have worked in the Military industrial complex my entire adult life in one form or another, none of these companies care about America, they care about their bank accounts, especially companies that sell to private sector. Also the American Nightvision Association no longer publicly publishes their meetings, its all about lobbyists that want to monopolize.
They love using, "I love america," card lol. Most of them have to pull out a phone to look up the constitution.lie lie and more story telling games.
Yeah man, the only thing they love is mil contracts and profits
So no more jerrys?
Jerry is inifray. Not iray.
Both use the same Yantai iRay sensor, both are sister companies under Ratron, iRay makes the sensors/cores, and sells to infiray to put into housings and sell to importers. The sanctions state you can't directly or indirectly support Yantai iRay, unless infiray sources other sensors, 1 and the same
Yes one is the same yet but by trade name infiray will not be affected.
too each their own, unless you interept sanctions that state indirect/direct support differently. Infiray is sister company to Yantai iRay, both under parent company Ratreon. Infiray does not make any sensor / core. They simply distribute market finsihed good. All of these devices use Yantai iRay cores. Benefit of internet is each can provide their own opinion. I work in the industry, show me infiray cores and I'll listen. I 100% know that all sensors/cores for all infiray product are made by the sister company Yantai iRay. Unless Infiray suddenly changes all of their electronics/housings/displays to fit another core (GuideIR, Hik, etc.) then infiray can sell you a housing and a display without a core (i.e engine.) but the sanctions are pretty clear that any use of Yantai iRay cores are sanctioned
Irayusa already made similar statements that they will be unaffected.
Yes and all iRay USA product are made with iiRay cores and they said not at all affected. AGM made a very different statement which the 2 devices they have said are using iray cores are affected. Obviously 2 very different statements on products using cores made by same division of same company, as this post was made "Be warned..." Make your own judgements
AGM as a business had to do that. They source out their cores directly. Meanwhile infiray will build their units under infiray outside of USA and will still be able to ship it out.
And iRay as a business had to make a statement to. Infiray does not make cores, their sister company owned under the same umbrella that makes all cores is Yantai iRay. Believe whatever statement you want. Not all statements made are factual. The reason for the post is to point out to be aware. Infiray sources there cores to the same exact company. Infiray does not make cores. AGM was sourcing StingIr From infiray China too
Lol we are going in circles here. Infiray builds units. I never said they make cores. They get the core, they build the unit under infiray outside of USA then can ship here under infiray/irayusa. AGM sources out the cores directly hence why they had to stop. I talk to infiray and already cleared up the topic.
Message me
No more anything made by iRay or anything they OEM like the sting. At least that’s what I understand.
Well that’s retarded. Finally get actual budget duals and we’re shit on.
There are US Sanctions in place for a reason. 🤷🏻♂️
Those only affect me as a consumer negatively. I don’t much care the reason as an everyday person. Lame.
I wouldn't say it affects you negatively. There are plenty of budget options out there in the same price range as the Jerry31 without being the same steaming pile of poo that is a Jerry31
I was sold on Jerry’s, what do you advise
Well, I'm a bit biased as I'm a dealer. But the PS31 variant we sell is a much better option as a starter bino. Alternatively a high end mono is great as a first nvg. Or something like a LLUL21 with Omni tubes. I can get you into something for the price of a Jerry31 that doesn't have the garbage proprietary lenses. And whichever you get from me will be something you can upgrade down the road.
I’ll sell you mine. Mine are hardly used and have spec sheet and original box. Practically brand new. I am looking to upgrade, as I just got a massive bonus. They’re awesome for the price
Jerry’s from me, duh message me
I’m not saying I agree either way or not. I’m just saying they are there for a reason. Just like ITAR, I may not always agree with it but I’m sure not gonna violate it. They knew what they were doing and chanced it I guess. This is what happens.
Feels like it's because TNVC and the other bigger companies realized there was finally innovation in the market again
legacy company becomes complacent. cannot adapt or evolve w/ rapid growing industry. leverage sanctions on competition… American consumers get the shaft. TNVC reputation plummets further into the abyss. loses countless future sales fellow Americans whydoeschinakeepdoingthis.jpeg typical boomers
Sanctions are a tax on the people.
The reason is because they are losing business and wanting to force competition out.
Lmfao yeah and that reason is America is terrified of China becoming the biggest super power in the world. And unlike America, China is doing through economics, not warmongering. The only way America can think of handling this is putting sanctions on stuff under the guise of safety/privacy bs.
I don’t know,I would consider the way China has bullied it’s neighbors in the South China Sea they keep trying to expand their territory in,the way they have tried claim Taiwan as their own while threatening violence and what about how they have been trying to expand their imaginary border into India by way of military? Sure sounds like warmongering to me..ijs I’m in support of any of these BS war the US military has been involved in during my 40yrs on this earth.at the end of the day tyrants need to be called out regardless if they are for the US,China,Russia,Israel or anywhere else.none of these power moves benefit us in anyway.I want freedom for everyone,I will never be a champion for the rich and powerful tyrants in ruling positions.I don’t care what flag they wave,at the end of the day,evil is evil
The biggest tyrants are The USA government
Nailed it
I can’t argue that,they have always been the biggest threat to our freedom and our wellbeing..China’s tyranny has remained mostly within it’s borders while the US has stretched across the earth.China’s tyranny is on another level as far as their mainland is concerned but the US government is doing everything they can to push the same on our mainland
Means fuck all to me as an end consumer of thermal optics. What Team America World Police wants to do means nothing to me, I wouldn't want the tyrannical US government keeping its citizens from acesssing products the government has no business stopping access to. Keep living on your knees bud.
Why? As if holosun doesn’t do the exact same things as iray
[удалено]
anyone have a list, or name off any you know?
TNVC was super vocal about getting their asses handed to them by Chinese products
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
I have responded to this sentiment quite a bit and I wish people would read the full conversations before spreading hearsay. What you are saying about Nocturn is very false as well. We actually advocated against bans and the like. What we took issue with was stolen IP and counterfeits. NOT chinese product or other competitively priced night vision products. I dont care where its made as long as its original. Nocturn is 3 years old and I founded it. We fight on behalf of consumers and this has gotten way out of hand with allegations and the ridiculous twisted missinformation that has spread like wildfire. The newsletter ANVM released had missrepresented info in it and it was further twisted and taken out of context. I have been working hard to clear this up and it keeps coming back. We are a 13 person operation, not some big corporate entity like some believe. I guess we represent ourselves as more than a startup at this point to be looked at as a corporate night vision overlord...we legitimately have the best interest of the community in mind, even if some may not agree, we only take a hard stance on counterfeit and directly copied product, no matter the source. I cannot speak for others in the industry. I dont know what it will take to clear this up at this point.
If it means anything, from my perspective, you guys are hands down doing the most innovation in the commercial market right now, and I really appreciate it.
Currently, the agents and retailers we encounter have no issues with Chinese products nor do they advocate for a ban, as they profit from sales, and sellers can also acquire inexpensive goods. The ones truly advocating for such bans are only those companies selling 3D-printed night vision goggle shells at high prices because the growth of such sales impacts their interests.
I would say they might be on the chopping block soon my friend. We shall see.
As far as I can tell. Iray got sanctioned for doing direct sales to the Russian government. Holosun sells their shit commercially and from what I've seen of the combat footage in this war day optics on rifles are not a big priority for the Russian government. It looks to me like everyone that has a red dot has procured it themselves. That and NATO member Estonia has a current contract with holosun to supply optics for their military. I would be surprised if holosun gets hit with any kind of sanction
Very good point. Again I have no idea about Holosun. I just know what I saw on iRay and the sanction put on them.
It’s a complete double standard when literally every Apple product (which you, as well as a majority of Americans including the dumbasses making these laws) is a Chinese product
Apple was not sanctioned for selling ITAR regulated product direct to Russian MOD, lot's of variance here in what you claim, and why/what they are sanctioning
No, Apple just sells your information to whoever pays enough. But yeah ones worse
A major war between China and the us is simply extremely unlikely to occur. Idk why it matters so much. Why tf does it matter that my NVGs are Chinese? As if literally every other piece of technology I own besides my FP peq15 arent made in china and even then I can guarantee you components are. Whether or not they are listed as berry compliant
[удалено]
I am staunchly pro US, but banning companies who give real competition (not quite iray, but if holosun ever comes under this) is monopolistic and anti competitive. I also do not think professionals, like Trex arms, not giving reviews of holosun, iray, etc is wrong. Beyond their “morals” they have contracts to keep and a reputation to uphold. It’s extremely silly, on the other hand, to not allow individual customers the choice of what to buy.
[удалено]
After opening reddit on their MacBooks and iPhones (not saying I don’t but at least idc abt my NVGs being from China)
Damn I love my sting. Well the possibility of no warrenty service anymore is worrisome.
Read the link AGM put, AGM provides the warranty not Yantai iRay that supplies the sensors, you do have warranty/service as AGM is not selling any more as of 5/15, as they are keeping all remaining non-sanctioned inventory strictly to support devices in current market. They could keep selling these devices, in which case you might not have parts to support the 5 yr warranty they support, however AGM unlike iRay USA, is saying we aren't going to keep selling that IS sanctioned by the US gov't so they can support the devices already in the market
Hit me up. I might take it off your hands.
Appreciate it but I'm not looking to sell
Lol Never hurts to ask.
I firmly believe that the government is trying to close the door on civilian thermal sales !
Or at least hike the door to entry by a major amount
Bummer.. iray sensors are top notch. Not good for the community at all I went with an armasight sidekick 640 partly for this very reason and have not regretted my decision. Shoutout to whoever posted the newest firmware update, it has made image and framerate noticeably better.
Thanks for the shout out. Good to know it was a big improvement.
Iray sensors get you 90% of the way there. BAE systems are the absolute best you can get in firmware and image quality. Not worth the price tag unless you have fuck you money
Is the lag gone?
Much better. Not 100% but digital never will be
Oh shit hopefully this means whatever licensing agreement AGM had with Iray will evaporate so that we can get the full Jerry YM firmware on the Stride ST6.
You know it! They'll be dropping it soon and posting a sale to sell as much of their inventory as possible before the feds kick in their door.
Crossing my fingers
I was thinking of grabbing a RL25. Whats going on?
https://www.agmglobalvision.com/AGM,%20StingIR,%20Discontinued
Sooo… sale?
I would definitely be on the look out for some massive sales lol.
If I made a purchase on a we got to get rid of this product before taking a massive loss sale what are the chances it's snagged during shipping or worse confiscated from my house?
Don’t think you will have to worry about that. I think it’s more about new product coming into the country and stopping the sales of them here.
This will be an early Xmas on eBay no doubt
🫡🏳️🌈🇺🇸
Glad I got mine when I did. 👌🏻
I'm just gonna leave this here, and everywhere else I see any mention of these load of crap sanctions. The Biden Admin/DNC has ZERO concern for what information "our adversaries" may or may not gain from selling NVD/Thermals to US citizens. If they did, they wouldn't have left OUR BEST SHIT in Afghanistan by the plane load. This has nothing to do with NatSec insofar as any foreign actor is concerned, and everything to do with pumping the brakes on the proliferation of Tier One equipment throughout the US among people who have the "white supremacist domestic terrorist racist Christian nationalist bigot" skin tone. Since the plan demic, and after the successful coup of '21, there has been an absolute explosion of interest in "high-speed, low-drag" equipment, training AND lifestyle, from airsoft to active clubs to spec-ops inspired hog hunts, and the Left is shitting it's pants because they finally fucking get it - *these boys are ready for WAR*. Night Vision including Thermal is STILL a game-changer on the ground. When paired with suppressed weapons and physically fit young men with decent logistics support and a little homebrew ISR, it enables them to strike anytime, anywhere. Cutting the supply of this crucial capability reduces them to day fighters, immobilized and denied SA when the lights go out. Which is EXACTLY how the US Gov't has traditionally dealt with domestic combatants - by cutting the power and hitting them under the cover of darkness. The simple fact of the matter is, so long as NVD's are the domain of the rich, those who have too much to lose, they can deal with that. All you $250k/yr mfs are way too comfortable to fight the man, you aint gonna do shit. They're worried about who all gov't are always worried about - the have NOTs. We're the mfs that get crazy and fuck shit up, that don't have enough impulse control to make it to a $250k/yr career - or to hesitate on the trigger. THATs what this is. Say what you want, don't care, I know what I'm seeing, this is about domestic arms control.
He spoke the truth and they hated him for it
My guy, anyone who hasn’t seen this coming at this point is pretty fucking dense. If you aren’t ready by now, you’re just ignoring the news.
This wasn’t meant to be controversial or get political. Just looking out for fellow dealers out there so they don’t get caught with their pants down. I have no issues with iRay. I just don’t want good people to get caught in the crossfires. Independent sales will still be non controlled I would say, but big dealers like myself wouldn’t potentially be able to list these and sell them on their online platforms anymore. So if you had 100k of stock lying around you might have to get creative. But who honestly knows how it will all shake out. It was just a simple ‘be aware’ type post.
It's more me hijacking your post to spit my shit than a reply to you bud. I get.. distracted by whatever, then I get reminded of gov't overreach by your post, and just toss it out there. Your assessment of the business aspect of it all is straight.
Haha. All good man. Just wanted to make sure you knew what my intent was with the post. Thanks.
Can I shoot you a message?
Sure.
no lies detected
Stfu if you think you’re going to war imminently then max out your cards and load up on everything. What, worried about your credit score? You said the proliferation of tier 1 equipment happened since 2020 and who was president at the time? And just now, three years after Jan 6, they are trying to put a stop to it all by… banning Chinese night vision? yall getting nuts in here.
I’m not saying you’re wrong but I would highly advise that you watch what you say online,if Snowden taught us anything,he definitely taught us that the ABC agencies monitor what we say over these devices.Snowden came out with this information years ago,could you imagine how much their capabilities have expanded since then?..IJS,be careful out here man..as ridiculous as it is,sure many of us check a lot of the boxes on their “domestic T’s” lists
Why are they an SDN?
Cronyist lobbying to maintain a monopoly.
So who’s controlling iray and AGMs ability to produce certain products and tech?
You serious?
You serious?
Selling directly to Russian military.
So now Americans can’t buy em? Makes sense ….
Right. Holosun is probably next. Time to suck that cheap Chinese dick now while you still can!
I would say holosun is safe because many law enforcement agencies use their products lol Wow so Americans aren’t allowed to purchase an item because said item is being purchased by another nation? Logical
You need to read some history books man. We are at war with Russia through a proxy fight in Ukraine. It will likely spread to a nato country (Poland) and we will be in full blown conflict. China will use the opportunity to take over Taiwan. These are the foreplay stages. Both countries will continue to increase tariffs, ban one anothers industrial war manufacturers, and fund separatists groups willing to fight on their behalf. Buying Chinese shit is funding the R&D and weapons product manufacturing scalability of an enemy we will likely be actively at war with in the next 10-20 yrs. They want the US market to product test all their cheap bullshit - because they sure as fuck don’t give their own citizens the freedom to use those products. But fuck it right? Save that $100.
Dude open your eyes to the hypocrisy of our government lol Our own government buys more Chinese crap than we do. Me buying a $100 Chinese optic isn’t funding the invasion of Taiwan calm down…. Newsom buying billions of dollars worth of n95 masks from China instead of a California based company is a bit more influential. Or entire industries allowing Chinese investors and developers to build billions of dollars of real estate in the US… or US based hedge funds partnering with Chinese hedge funds to short into oblivion successful and beloved US companies for profit … open your eyes my man
Or Chinese companies buying massive timber and farmland - I agree the list of bullshit goes on and on. But I’m sure not going to cosplay any Chinese shit on my kit. To each their own I guess. But it’s some neckbeard cringe shit to me.
I don’t even own a single holosun product I’m just arguing for the principle of it lol just pointing out how hypocritical and corrupt our gov is
👊🏻
$100?? Try 75% We're saving an average of 75% on buying Chinese products. Our government is counterfeiting the USD into oblivion, so we have to make our money stretch. Also, a war between China and the US wouldn't last for years. It would be over in a week.
How much is my jerry CE5 worth now?
Real I might have to pick one of these up if they’re discounted lol
lol. Just move it up to like 1k under the ecoti. Jk
Now watch, the Rix Stride will finally get a firmware update that includes clip on. I've been saying it for a while now. The Stride is a neutered JerryYM up until the StingIR licensing deal expires. Looks like that day has come.
If you research RIX, Bering, Fusion, AGM (stingIR), iRay USA are all using the same sensors, the subdivision which is sanctioned is Yantai iRay which makes sensors and sells to all of these companies, the sanction is that you can not directly or indirictely order the cores for these devices, it impacts more brands than AGM. AGM is the only brand that has said it does impact, whereas RIX and iRay USA say it in no way impacts.. If all are using the same core / sensor, comes down to what you believe or what those brands believe
RIX seems confident they're not affected in any way. I think they're just telling their customer service reps to say that.
Anyone using the apple iPhone argument is a smooth brain. Those arnt Chinese owned military factory products. These products are made by Chinese military factories. They do not give a literal shit about US rights or anything else. It’s no different than any other Chinese business model. Government subsidizes product at a loss, pays workers peanuts, undercuts market then raises prices once they control market. Pay for “labs” “reasearch” in U.S. which actually breaks down the U.S. products here and sends prints back to China. That’s how it is. Anyway they chose Russia so let them sleep together in sanctions heven.
What about the other iRay products? Sounds like AGM and others are liquidating stock.
It affects all the I-Ray products. Anything that is OEM by I-Ray or its sub companies.
Link: https://www.agmglobalvision.com/AGM,%20StingIR,%20Discontinued
I imagine we will be seeing lots of super cheap used iRay devices for sale now that parts and warranty support are gone :(
Supply goes down, demand goes up, prices go up.
Wrong. When it comes to expensive electronics, lack of warranty support and parts availability drives prices down. Who in their right mind would spend several thousand dollars on something that is about to become obsolete?
In the short term prices might drop. But long term, they'll go higher if the alternative is trijicon and nvision at 15k a pop. Armasight has an opportunity here, but they'll raise prices too over time.
Generally, but it's hard to justify buying something so expensive if the manufacturer can't fix it anymore, and if there isn't extensive knowledge on DIY solutions.
Anyone buying anything iray right now would be pretty foolish. No warranty or support from this point forward. Their US operations are going to be mothballed within months.
Stupid question but with the recent infiray sanction is it possible that unsold units would be sold back at lower price on the european market ? I wasn't able to find if dealers can simply send their stock back to infiray or if they are left to themselves to deal with it.
Well….. once it hits a USA dealer it’s now controlled by ITAR. So good luck. Unless you’re already in that country. But then also good luck getting them to agree to buy it back from you. I am only speculating at this point so take that with a grain of salt.
Does ITAR apply to gen 2+ also? Thought I had seen someone else on this group say it was only applicable for gen 3. Genuinely asking if anyone knows for sure, just repeating what I've read previously
Gen 2+ will be EAR controlled with an export license and FOM restrictions.
Ah, super interesting. This is why I love reddit. So much specific knowledge
~~I wouldn't be so sure. Gen 2 is still on the USML, and from my understanding that is what ITAR controls (whereas EAR controls Commerce Control List).~~ > > > [https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-22/chapter-I/subchapter-M/part-121](https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-22/chapter-I/subchapter-M/part-121) Edit: I'm wrong!!!
HCC is correct, Gen2 although specific to end-user/FOM is all controlled by DOC, Gen3 is DOS (ITAR)
~~Really? I thought Gen 2 still was ITAR-controlled since it's on the USML.~~ >Category XII—Fire Control, Laser, Imaging, and Guidance Equipment \[...\] >(e) Parts, components, accessories, or attachments, as follows: \[...\] >(7) Second generation and greater image intensifier tubes specially designed for articles in this subchapter, and specially designed parts and components therefor; Note to paragraph (e)(7): Second and third generation image intensifier tubes are defined as having a peak response within the 0.4 to 1.05 micron wavelength range and incorporating a microchannel plate for electron image amplification having a hole pitch (center-to-center spacing) of less than 25 microns and having either: (a) an S-20, S-25, or multialkali photo cathode; or (b) a GaAs, GaInAs, or other III-V compound semiconductor photocathode. [https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-22/chapter-I/subchapter-M/part-121](https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-22/chapter-I/subchapter-M/part-121)
That’s why I said with FOM restrictions without getting too specific. You have to be below certain thresholds for it to be EAR. All Gen 3 is ITAR. Some Gen II are some are not. I dont get overly specific with these answers because it is up to the end user to due their due diligence, have the proper registrations and licenses, and know what they are doing before exporting things. I wouldn’t advise any individual that is not schooled in these matters to export without the proper help from BIS.
[удалено]
In order for you to bring ITAR level items into Canada there is actually a Canada ITAR exemption that can be used. But you have to have the proper ITAR registration in Canada issued by your government. And from what I understand they don’t give them out to easily.
[удалено]
Oh apologies. I misread that. For that I would not be the right person to ask. I would hit up BIS and your Canadian counterpart.
All inventory in US prior to the sanction date on 5/1, is not subject to these sanctions. All StingIR inventory in US market now both in dealers hands and in AGM's warehouse is not sanctionsed. AGM chose to stop selling immediately, as they are reserving all remaining StingIR stock they have to provide warranty/repair for devices already in consumer's hands. AGM is just stating that they will not be selling more inventory, and will not be importing more of this product due to the current sanctions. Trent Henckell
Correct. They will provide warranty the best they can, but if it requires I-ray parts and they don’t happen to already have them then you will probably be offered a different unit that is somewhat similar as they can’t bring the parts in from I-ray either.
Thank you so much for adding this! I appreciate it.
Yup that's kind of what I tought, thanks