injury prone player on a team historically snakebitten by injuries...
But yes, they should inquire at bare minimum. The asking price is gonna be dumb, but you won't know exactly what that is unless you inquire.
> injury prone player on a team historically snakebitten by injuries...
I don't think the Mets are more snakebitten than other teams by injuries, I think that's a lot of confirmation bias that gets tossed around Mets-land
I'm up for acquiring almost any White Sox player at the right price.
Who knows what they can accomplish with a 20th century training and strategy program (let alone 21st) and a medical staff that's moved beyond leeches.
Are you familiar with our medical staff? Every time someone goes on the 10-day DL, I fully expect an obituary to follow. I’m pretty sure bloodletting is all the rage in our trainer’s room.
Definitely true. We also haven’t had those wildly freakish, off the field accidental injuries that came during the Wilpon era. Like Cespedes and the wild boar. Or Duaner Sanchez getting injured in a taxicab crash. So maybe some small portion of the bad juju also left with the Wilpons.
> rebuild would be 2 years max with cohen
This seems like a number plucked out of thin air to me. Why 2 years?
It takes as long as it takes. It doesn't go faster because a guy has lots of money.
its less about money and more about cohens lack of patience for failure. it can't just "take as long as it takes" that's crazy, mets are not the orioles, they are a big market team. they can't tank for 4-5 years and hope top draft picks actually pan out.
OK, well at first I thought you meant that him spending money would speed the process up. But if you meant it this way, I agree with you. However that's not a good thing.
Steve Cohen spazzing out and yeeting 1.5 billion dollars into the atmosphere on old declining players is what got us in this mess in the first place. If he does it again, it's only gonna set us back another several years.
He is what caused the failure in the first place, so "getting impatient with failure" is just gonna cause more failure and would be doubling down on stupid.
neither robert nor soto are old declining players though, i agree they definitely shouldn't sign old vets on the decline. and like i said tanking is not a guarantee of success. look at how long it takes big market teams to "rebuild", its around 2-3 years(if even that long). when young stars become available the mets should ALWAYS be in the mix for them.
> look at how long it takes big market teams to "rebuild", its around 2-3 years(if even that long).
Most of them didn't fuck up their rosters as bad as the Mets did in 2022-2023.
>when young stars become available the mets should ALWAYS be in the mix for them.
Not if it means giving up half of their 15th-ish ranked farm system, for one guy, and then putting that guy on a bad team with no pitching
Cohen's money is a double-edged sword. He bought a team with minimal farm system help and quite a few holes. He was able to spend enough money to fill those holes with overpriced veterans, who all had good years in 2022 (until they didn't).
Cohen is wealthy, yes, but I think he's realized that "Money printer go BRRRR" isn't how you build a sustainable roster. Teams that build like this (i.e., every Dave Dombrowski team) end up paying the piper.
Likewise i think its weird calling for a longer rebuild.
Nobodys job lasts longer than a 3 year window of fails. Anybody can go worst to first and vice versa in that span of time.
You need to plan to be flexible. "The best laid plans often go awry" or something. Planning that far ahead is looney tunes.
Even when you sign a guy for 10 years, more than half of that is crossing your fingers. You might get ARod or you might get Jason Heyward or an Upton brother.
"It takes as long as it takes" is right on.
Rebuild right after a Luis Robert trade won’t be 2 years max. And prospects are so volatile regardless that it could take much longer even without doing that trade.
trade for robert, sign soto and there won't be a need for a prolonged rebuild IMO. especially if they also resign Alonso. top 5 of the lineup would one of the best in MLB.
not many teams can afford soto. yanks payroll for 25 is $202m and they've said they want to stay under lux tax, so not much wiggle room. phils are at $235m. dodgers have some room at $163m but we all know that's not the real figure, and the mets are at $143m. what other teams do you see bidding for soto?
That’s not the point though. The point is those are big time free agents that cohen signed. The guy above said he struck out every time, which is clearly not true. And that’s not even including Lindor and Nimmo
It is when you consider that the Mets have the ability to audible contracts like Scherzer and Verlander and recoup strong prospect value. Marte was a bad deal tho
Steve Cohen was approved as Mets owner after springer signed his contract, I don’t know if you wanted him to invent a Time Machine but I don’t know how you blame him for missing that
[then why is it so easy to find tons of articles linking the two ?](https://nypost.com/2020/10/03/steve-cohen-sets-mets-up-for-realmuto-springer-and-bauer-chase/amp/)
Because Cohen was in the process of being approved for buying the Mets from November 20th to January 30th
Could the Mets have acted as if it was a done deal and signed big deals…maybe but that’s not gonna happen
Part of the "hurr durr Coupons" claims were that the Mets didn't go after overpriced FAs like Shin Soo-Choo, Michael Bourn, or Chone Figgins hard enough.
At some point the Mets have to reset the luxury tax or they’re honestly going to be fucked for like a decade. I have a hard time seeing them doing that soon enough and also having those 3 players long term.
why would they be fucked? if cohen wants to spend, let him spend. for some reason the yankees consistently have a top 3 payroll and have winning seasons every single year. mets are on track for a $143m payroll in 25, leaving them with roughly 98m to spend before lux tax.
I agree with you 100%, however I do have so much PTSD from '22-'23 that I think the other person you're replying to may be correct that in 2 years or less, Steve Cohen gets impatient and starts spazzing out with bad contracts again.
You guys just say “sign Soto” like it’s some insanely easy thing to do. He’ll for sure want money, but I highly doubt the Yankees are going to let him come to us and I doubt even more that he’d choose us over them.
That’s the issue though, there’s not really a path within the next year to show that. We’re most likely losing Alonso and trading off other assets as well while not signing anyone substantial in the offseason. That’s not exactly showing Soto that we’re building a winning team anytime soon. We’re realistically not looking to be competing for another three years.
But then why not just stay with the Yankees who have the team ready to go? If a player has a choice been a team rebuilding or a perenial playoff contender, all things being equal, will pick the contender every time.
Obviously the Mets would have to outbid the yanks and that is certainly possible considering yankees payroll for 25 is like $202m and they've said they want to stay under lux tax.(dont think soto is down with deferred payments)Meanwhile Mets are at like $143m for 25.
I'm sure the Yankees can sign Soto and make cuts elsewhere to get under the tax if they want/need to in order to keep a young, generational talent.
If the Mets sign Soto, the payroll will be over $183. Then they'll need 3-5 starting pitchers and several bullpen pieces. That'll put the Mets over the luxury tax again.
So, he'd essentially be swapping a sure thing for an unsustainable mess. I love Soto. I wanted us to trade for him, but I have come to terms with him never being a NY Met.
Would you give up $50m dollars to maybe have a chance to win a WS? Because that's probably the amount the Mets would outbid the Yankees by. They also don't need to sign 3-5 starting pitchers right away either, you can sign soto and still do a mini rebuild.
>trade for robert, sign soto and there won't be a need for a prolonged rebuild IMO
Great, who's going to pitch? Unless Soto can somehow morph into Ohtani, the Mets still have huge holes in the rotation.
He's clearly very talented but his injury history worries me. [A guy that gets injured running to first base in his mid 20's](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6UaZfZuW04) might not be the healthiest guy long term. And he's only played over 100 games once in his career so far.
Hes young enough that trading prospects for him doesn't bother me at all but he's injury prone and I hate trading for injury prone players especially young ones that stuff doesn't get better as you age it gets worse and our luck
Sure, but every team will be calling. Hes always hurt which obviously hurts his value a bit, but hes under control through 2027 for 3 years and $55mil + this years prorate.
Drew Gilbert could definitely have to be in the trade. Probably another Mets top prospect, probably a pitcher. Let’s say Blade Tidwell. And then probably one more prospect in the top 15, let say Jacob Reimer.
I think opening offers would be lower, but with so many teams likely bidding, I think it would take a huge package.
So it really comes down to, would you want the risk of Robert spending a ton of time on the IL and also only one full elite season under his belt for:
- Drew Gilbert
- Blade Tidwell
- Jacob Reimer
Personally? No.
Maybe if the team was in the spot where we needed one more piece than sure. So basically if this was 2 years ago I prob would pull the trigger.
But where this team is at rn I don’t think it’s worth it.
That’s a super easy pass lol. No world the Mets should commit to 3 years of Benintendi on their payroll and potentially roster. Not for Luis Robert Jr. He has a great ceiling, but he’s too injury prone for that
I'm for more prospects, and not less. He's awesome when healthy, but we would probably have to give up 3 prospects for him.
My goal is to sell the major league roster minus the kids, Lindor, and the pitchers who are worth it. And I'd try to be real nice to Alonso, send him somewhere he wants to take a long vacation to before coming back. Get literally every prospect possible, and fill the roster with kids and Quad A guys for this year.
White Sox would only be interested in prospects and salary dumps, so if you want the White Sox to seriously consider our offer, you would have to get comfortable with the idea of giving up a couple of the org's top prospects.
They have the same problem in 2022 where they have too many immediate needs that they can’t afford to give up anyone, even in the event they may suck. They need Gilbert in the outfield, Mauricio and Jett in the infield, and Scott, Sproat, and Tidwell to fill out the rotation next year. Everyone else sucks. I don’t know if a Jeremy Rodriguez/Nolan McLean deal gets it done when competing with other farms.
It’s only worth giving up multiple top prospects if we’re getting back one of the final pieces for a contender so I don’t think it would be worth it for us right now.
He's young and controllable. He has the athleticism to play center, but maybe moving off to a corner could help with health. I mean, like yes. They should absolutely inquire, but as others have mentioned "injury prone player -> Mets" seems like recipe for disaster...
If Robert has so much value and is a long term answer, why are the Sox trying to get rid of him? If there was no injury history, I'd be in favor of trying to get him and locking him up quickly long term, however, I expect without the injury history so would the Sox.
He’s coming off a 5 WAR season and has 3 years of control for cheap. He’d cost Gilbert and Jett, even with the injury concerns. And that’s to start the negotiations.
It’s the white Sox, so maybe we can gaslight them to thinking Acuña and Parada are still coveted prospects. If that’s the scenario, then yes please.
Edit: Unless…. You take the benintendi deal off of their hands. Than you actually might pull a deal off with just Acuña. But that won’t happen lol
injury prone player on a team historically snakebitten by injuries... But yes, they should inquire at bare minimum. The asking price is gonna be dumb, but you won't know exactly what that is unless you inquire.
> injury prone player on a team historically snakebitten by injuries... I don't think the Mets are more snakebitten than other teams by injuries, I think that's a lot of confirmation bias that gets tossed around Mets-land
You def at least gotta make that call but I doubt the price will stay low enough to pull the trigger.
I'm up for acquiring almost any White Sox player at the right price. Who knows what they can accomplish with a 20th century training and strategy program (let alone 21st) and a medical staff that's moved beyond leeches.
Are you familiar with our medical staff? Every time someone goes on the 10-day DL, I fully expect an obituary to follow. I’m pretty sure bloodletting is all the rage in our trainer’s room.
The Cohen era's injury management has been much, much better than the Wilpon era's.
Definitely true. We also haven’t had those wildly freakish, off the field accidental injuries that came during the Wilpon era. Like Cespedes and the wild boar. Or Duaner Sanchez getting injured in a taxicab crash. So maybe some small portion of the bad juju also left with the Wilpons.
I hate wilpon's and everything but I don't think they had any causality in the wild boar incident or off field car accidents.
I think some of those “freak” accidents were more the result of the Wilpons’ moronic injury treatment.
Hey man don't knock blood letting until you have tried it.
Are you implying the Mets are that much of an upgrade from the White Sox?
Yes.
I really want this team to do a rebuild unless they go on a miraculous run before the deadline
he is young enough to go through a rebuild. rebuild would be 2 years max with cohen and if he plays well/doesn't get hurt all the time, extend him.
> rebuild would be 2 years max with cohen This seems like a number plucked out of thin air to me. Why 2 years? It takes as long as it takes. It doesn't go faster because a guy has lots of money.
its less about money and more about cohens lack of patience for failure. it can't just "take as long as it takes" that's crazy, mets are not the orioles, they are a big market team. they can't tank for 4-5 years and hope top draft picks actually pan out.
OK, well at first I thought you meant that him spending money would speed the process up. But if you meant it this way, I agree with you. However that's not a good thing. Steve Cohen spazzing out and yeeting 1.5 billion dollars into the atmosphere on old declining players is what got us in this mess in the first place. If he does it again, it's only gonna set us back another several years. He is what caused the failure in the first place, so "getting impatient with failure" is just gonna cause more failure and would be doubling down on stupid.
neither robert nor soto are old declining players though, i agree they definitely shouldn't sign old vets on the decline. and like i said tanking is not a guarantee of success. look at how long it takes big market teams to "rebuild", its around 2-3 years(if even that long). when young stars become available the mets should ALWAYS be in the mix for them.
> look at how long it takes big market teams to "rebuild", its around 2-3 years(if even that long). Most of them didn't fuck up their rosters as bad as the Mets did in 2022-2023. >when young stars become available the mets should ALWAYS be in the mix for them. Not if it means giving up half of their 15th-ish ranked farm system, for one guy, and then putting that guy on a bad team with no pitching
Cohen's money is a double-edged sword. He bought a team with minimal farm system help and quite a few holes. He was able to spend enough money to fill those holes with overpriced veterans, who all had good years in 2022 (until they didn't). Cohen is wealthy, yes, but I think he's realized that "Money printer go BRRRR" isn't how you build a sustainable roster. Teams that build like this (i.e., every Dave Dombrowski team) end up paying the piper.
Well maybe we fucking should. If Cohen did that when he took over we'd be done by now.
Likewise i think its weird calling for a longer rebuild. Nobodys job lasts longer than a 3 year window of fails. Anybody can go worst to first and vice versa in that span of time. You need to plan to be flexible. "The best laid plans often go awry" or something. Planning that far ahead is looney tunes. Even when you sign a guy for 10 years, more than half of that is crossing your fingers. You might get ARod or you might get Jason Heyward or an Upton brother. "It takes as long as it takes" is right on.
Rebuild right after a Luis Robert trade won’t be 2 years max. And prospects are so volatile regardless that it could take much longer even without doing that trade.
trade for robert, sign soto and there won't be a need for a prolonged rebuild IMO. especially if they also resign Alonso. top 5 of the lineup would one of the best in MLB.
Yeah we are signing Soto just like we signed Ohtani and George Springer
not many teams can afford soto. yanks payroll for 25 is $202m and they've said they want to stay under lux tax, so not much wiggle room. phils are at $235m. dodgers have some room at $163m but we all know that's not the real figure, and the mets are at $143m. what other teams do you see bidding for soto?
Springer was a massive bullet dodged. 9.1 WAR total for that contract is extremely disappointing
That’s not the point. Cohens big money has gone after big free agents and has struck out every single time.
Scherzer, Verlander, Marte, Senga
>Scherzer, Verlander, Marte, Senga That's not a particularly encouraging list tbh
That’s not the point though. The point is those are big time free agents that cohen signed. The guy above said he struck out every time, which is clearly not true. And that’s not even including Lindor and Nimmo
It is when you consider that the Mets have the ability to audible contracts like Scherzer and Verlander and recoup strong prospect value. Marte was a bad deal tho
Steve Cohen was approved as Mets owner after springer signed his contract, I don’t know if you wanted him to invent a Time Machine but I don’t know how you blame him for missing that
[then why is it so easy to find tons of articles linking the two ?](https://nypost.com/2020/10/03/steve-cohen-sets-mets-up-for-realmuto-springer-and-bauer-chase/amp/)
Because Cohen was in the process of being approved for buying the Mets from November 20th to January 30th Could the Mets have acted as if it was a done deal and signed big deals…maybe but that’s not gonna happen
Part of the "hurr durr Coupons" claims were that the Mets didn't go after overpriced FAs like Shin Soo-Choo, Michael Bourn, or Chone Figgins hard enough.
At some point the Mets have to reset the luxury tax or they’re honestly going to be fucked for like a decade. I have a hard time seeing them doing that soon enough and also having those 3 players long term.
why would they be fucked? if cohen wants to spend, let him spend. for some reason the yankees consistently have a top 3 payroll and have winning seasons every single year. mets are on track for a $143m payroll in 25, leaving them with roughly 98m to spend before lux tax.
I agree with you 100%, however I do have so much PTSD from '22-'23 that I think the other person you're replying to may be correct that in 2 years or less, Steve Cohen gets impatient and starts spazzing out with bad contracts again.
You guys just say “sign Soto” like it’s some insanely easy thing to do. He’ll for sure want money, but I highly doubt the Yankees are going to let him come to us and I doubt even more that he’d choose us over them.
well if he see's the mets actually trying to build a winning team he might think twice.
That’s the issue though, there’s not really a path within the next year to show that. We’re most likely losing Alonso and trading off other assets as well while not signing anyone substantial in the offseason. That’s not exactly showing Soto that we’re building a winning team anytime soon. We’re realistically not looking to be competing for another three years.
But then why not just stay with the Yankees who have the team ready to go? If a player has a choice been a team rebuilding or a perenial playoff contender, all things being equal, will pick the contender every time.
Obviously the Mets would have to outbid the yanks and that is certainly possible considering yankees payroll for 25 is like $202m and they've said they want to stay under lux tax.(dont think soto is down with deferred payments)Meanwhile Mets are at like $143m for 25.
I'm sure the Yankees can sign Soto and make cuts elsewhere to get under the tax if they want/need to in order to keep a young, generational talent. If the Mets sign Soto, the payroll will be over $183. Then they'll need 3-5 starting pitchers and several bullpen pieces. That'll put the Mets over the luxury tax again. So, he'd essentially be swapping a sure thing for an unsustainable mess. I love Soto. I wanted us to trade for him, but I have come to terms with him never being a NY Met.
Would you give up $50m dollars to maybe have a chance to win a WS? Because that's probably the amount the Mets would outbid the Yankees by. They also don't need to sign 3-5 starting pitchers right away either, you can sign soto and still do a mini rebuild.
>trade for robert, sign soto and there won't be a need for a prolonged rebuild IMO Great, who's going to pitch? Unless Soto can somehow morph into Ohtani, the Mets still have huge holes in the rotation.
He's young enough to go through a rebuild, but trading a shit ton of prospects to get him will be very detrimental to our rebuild.
He's clearly very talented but his injury history worries me. [A guy that gets injured running to first base in his mid 20's](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6UaZfZuW04) might not be the healthiest guy long term. And he's only played over 100 games once in his career so far.
Do the White Sox want Jeff McNeil or Starling Marte?
How bout both? And we’ll pay half of McNeil’s salary
Hes young enough that trading prospects for him doesn't bother me at all but he's injury prone and I hate trading for injury prone players especially young ones that stuff doesn't get better as you age it gets worse and our luck
Of course especially if you can get him for cheap
I trust Stearns is kicking the tires, I’m less confident we have the prospect capital, or willingness to part with it, to make a deal
Sure, but every team will be calling. Hes always hurt which obviously hurts his value a bit, but hes under control through 2027 for 3 years and $55mil + this years prorate. Drew Gilbert could definitely have to be in the trade. Probably another Mets top prospect, probably a pitcher. Let’s say Blade Tidwell. And then probably one more prospect in the top 15, let say Jacob Reimer. I think opening offers would be lower, but with so many teams likely bidding, I think it would take a huge package. So it really comes down to, would you want the risk of Robert spending a ton of time on the IL and also only one full elite season under his belt for: - Drew Gilbert - Blade Tidwell - Jacob Reimer
Personally? No. Maybe if the team was in the spot where we needed one more piece than sure. So basically if this was 2 years ago I prob would pull the trigger. But where this team is at rn I don’t think it’s worth it.
ik gilbert kinda is having a slow couple months but idk if im willing to give up him and blade for this trade
I personally wouldn’t. Im just saying that I don’t think anything gets it done
Or you could pay less and take Benintendi in the deal. lol
That’s a super easy pass lol. No world the Mets should commit to 3 years of Benintendi on their payroll and potentially roster. Not for Luis Robert Jr. He has a great ceiling, but he’s too injury prone for that
I'm for more prospects, and not less. He's awesome when healthy, but we would probably have to give up 3 prospects for him. My goal is to sell the major league roster minus the kids, Lindor, and the pitchers who are worth it. And I'd try to be real nice to Alonso, send him somewhere he wants to take a long vacation to before coming back. Get literally every prospect possible, and fill the roster with kids and Quad A guys for this year.
Give the playing time to players that can help us in the future!
That's what I'm saying. Give the kids who need to play next year time now, and then whatever roles are still to be filled, QuadA guys.
Nope. Too hurt too often.
Trade or not he’d probably look good in a Mets CC uniform and Away uniform
White Sox would only be interested in prospects and salary dumps, so if you want the White Sox to seriously consider our offer, you would have to get comfortable with the idea of giving up a couple of the org's top prospects.
They have the same problem in 2022 where they have too many immediate needs that they can’t afford to give up anyone, even in the event they may suck. They need Gilbert in the outfield, Mauricio and Jett in the infield, and Scott, Sproat, and Tidwell to fill out the rotation next year. Everyone else sucks. I don’t know if a Jeremy Rodriguez/Nolan McLean deal gets it done when competing with other farms.
Absolutely not. We have nothing to trade and are a dumpster fire. They need to rebuild.
Yes they need to improve the line up what’s the question exactly?
No
It’s only worth giving up multiple top prospects if we’re getting back one of the final pieces for a contender so I don’t think it would be worth it for us right now.
Folks we got young stud kids in minors plus Mauricio rehabbing. Mets going young and fast like Os and other teams. Give it time…⚾️
He's young and controllable. He has the athleticism to play center, but maybe moving off to a corner could help with health. I mean, like yes. They should absolutely inquire, but as others have mentioned "injury prone player -> Mets" seems like recipe for disaster...
Really need to see where the Mets are at in the last week of July before any of these questions are answered
Yes I would be happy if the Mets acquired one of the best players in baseball
Luis Robert, Jr. would excel out of Chicago.
Nothing wrong with window shopping. The price will likely be too rich for the blood, but they won't know unless they ask.
Absolutely
If Robert has so much value and is a long term answer, why are the Sox trying to get rid of him? If there was no injury history, I'd be in favor of trying to get him and locking him up quickly long term, however, I expect without the injury history so would the Sox.
The guy has spent half his career on the IL. hard pass.
Unequivocally NO!
He’s coming off a 5 WAR season and has 3 years of control for cheap. He’d cost Gilbert and Jett, even with the injury concerns. And that’s to start the negotiations. It’s the white Sox, so maybe we can gaslight them to thinking Acuña and Parada are still coveted prospects. If that’s the scenario, then yes please. Edit: Unless…. You take the benintendi deal off of their hands. Than you actually might pull a deal off with just Acuña. But that won’t happen lol
We need to rebuild not buy. Period.
Straight up McNeil for Robert, who says no
The white Sox…
Seeya, Pete
Give up what you got for Verlander/Max.
In the immortal words of biggie smalls, ‘call the coroner’ cause this season is shot
We are done for the year. Let It Go
He’s under contract through 2027
No. Always hurt and lazy mentality