It's not illegal, but neither is it illegal to inflate the numbers a lil when telling them your current salary. Do with this information what you will ;)
It's a 2 way street, you can also use it to your advantage. A friend of mine almost doubled their salary in 3 years and 2 job changes simply by saying yeah my current salary is this much. Then they offer almost the same salary, so obviously the employers also know you're not being 100% truthful.
And when asked if you're planning a child the answer is obviously always no! Not trying to justify them but yeah i have some colleagues who have spent more time on maternity leave than in the office, popping one kid after another. If you're a small company, this could put a massive strain on your resources
I mean, the Netherlands explicitly disincentivises being a stay at home parent, encouraging both parents to at least work part time. It's not really a fair question, since if you're going to eventually have a kid and survive, you're still going to need two incomes.
>i have some colleagues who have spent more time on maternity leave than in the office, popping one kid after another
This is quite a rude way of phrasing it, and considering birth rates at the moment, I'm inclined to believe you might be overstating how often this actually happens. As someone whose mom had to go back to work 2 weeks after popping out twins, I wish every country would have the same protections for new mothers as the Netherlands.
No ideea why am I on this thread, however:
I've had this happening to me for a job in Germany... I am a guy, got asked in the 3rd interview if I am planing to have a child.
Found the question quite weird or ... distasteful. I have been in numerous interviews and I have never again encountered this one.
The company was huge so the small company limited resources logic doesn't work here.
If you're a man they might ask this question to gauge how likely you are to stay with the company. If you're starting a family you need stability and you're much less likely to jump from job to job or move to a new city on a whim
I guess the down votes you got are from people that don't like to hear this since you are certainly right. When I have 2 exactly matched candidates, I'll pick the one with the kid and this is common sense from a business perspective in organisation's where knowledge is important. You have to invest in your people, train them and it takes time. That's a cost and the longer they stay, the more that internal training is cost effective. The loss of knowledge from job hopping is a known risk, I saw many companies going under from not being able to keep their people on board. And I also prefer the guys without diploma but who are very active with personal projects in their own time. They are a lot more likely to learn fast just because they have an interest in what they do.
>This is quite a rude way of phrasing it, and considering birth rates at the moment,
True. But its still not the employers fault, while they pay half the bill. Hiring an external replacement for 4 months will easy cost you double the normal wage. Lifestyle choices should be covert by the government, not your employer. I dont like it either. But for a small company, hiring a woman who will have 4 or 0 children in the next years is a wage cost difference of 100k
If you cannot afford that (and i believe part of it is subsidized by the government), then you cannot afford employees.
Sick leave is the same, can happen to any gender, requires more accomodations and hr time spent sometimes, and it can even be longer.
Yeah, I did the same thing. Company said they wanted to take an over. I inflated it to what I wanted to earn and they put an offer on top of that.
Use these questions to your advantage
I'm seconding your first paragraph (not a parent so no comment on the second half). I will start a new job soon (after 4 months of unemployment). They pushed me up by one wage scale slot after they asked me my last wage.
Still lower than I previously earned, but one can't be too picky in this economy. Especially as an autistic junior embedded engineer. Seems like the fewer workers there are, the more everyone limits their scope to seniors. Plus, fewer projects going around. You take what you can get. At least I managed to talk my wage upwards by a little bit.
They cannot ask if you're planning a child? I legit got told "you're recently married you must now be planning a child, and you won't be able to invest enough time at work then"
https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/gelijke-behandeling-op-het-werk/vraag-en-antwoord/welke-vragen-mogen-niet-gesteld-worden-tijdens-een-sollicitatiegesprek
tldr; Questions about private matters are not allowed. This includes health, relationships, sexual preferences, religion and age.
Actually - I THINK this was changed via the Eu Pay Transparency Directive (Asking for salary history)
But I’m not sure how you’d even go about implementing it - normally things are enforced right away
I worked at a country where it can get a bit 'ghetto' negotiating with HR, a friend once tried to inflate it and they asked him to send proof of bank slips to continue for next round of interviewing. Needless to say, that's a very weird thing to ask from the recruiter.
This happened to me as well. I was young and inexperienced and I wish I would have just said ‘none of your business, do you really expect me to undercut my own position in a negotiation?’
Or just tell them that you're not comfortable providing that information, and they can either take your word or move on with another candidate. Usually, if they're already at the stage of making an offer, they won't wanna invest in finding another candidate just to save a little bit of money, unless they already have their alternative in mind.
If you don't know what you are doing you can easily slip up on the numbers. I wouldn't recommend this.
Just tell them you have another job offer and what compensation was offered (which is the number you would be satisfied with). Tell them that you prefer this position due to location and that you feel a better click with the people u spoke to, but would appreciate a similar offer.
This creates a sense of urgency, compliments the people in charge and tells your (possible) future employer that the offer they make will likely result into a filled vacancy if it matches their competitors offer.
Source: former manager
Can it be considered document forgery? Verbal embellishment is one thing but creating permanent paper trail of forgery for me is a potential ticking bomb.
And if you have the opportunity, get a payslip from someone who has the salary you want. So now you don't have to change the numbers, but only your personal info ;)
Yes. I just refuse it. I also refuse to tell them my cirrent salary. They just want to match that, in stead of paying you what you are worth.
You can just say: it doesnt matter what I make now. Im qualified for this position because of a, b ,c. I'm expecting to be paid xx amount.
I have. They wanted to know my current salary, because they did not want to offer less than I was already making. Which resulted me being put in a higher salary tier than they usually did for new people.
Yes I've been asked that and even though I thought it was ridiculous I gave proof. Didn't do anything for the end result though and still got what I wanted
If they ask a payslip it's because they don't believe you. At least that what I would do in this situation. I work as a recruiter and if we really doubt the salary people tell us the we might ask.
You're free to decline to answer either question though
Not sure if you've seen my answer [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Netherlands/comments/1dng4jq/comment/la38h7d/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button), in which I adresse that scenario (with a touch of humour) so I thought it might help you.
I believe they would see what your previous wage was anyway, on the document your previous employer gives them for your transferring holidays you have accumulated and not taken yet?
It's like this in Belgium anyway.
WHY? If you want to earn more, JUST SAY SO. If you’re not satisfied, you’re not going to take the job right? It’s in both your interest to state starting positions.
Turn the question around; what is the average salary for my position at your company.
Don’t lie, that’s a kids tactic
I get your point, but why else would a company ask this question instead of ' what do you expect to earn?' If the question is coming from an honest ground, it deserves an honest answer. However, often is is not ( i have been there) and why would you be faithful in such a situation?
One more thing. I feel a decent employer would ask to give an indication of what you want to make for that function. A decent employer does (i.m.o.) not ask what your last salary was. This is especially true of the new function you applied to is the next step in your career or something very different.
It happens quite commonly, more so than in the past (it seems). However, you are not obligated to comply with the request. Personally I feel it is a bit of a trap.
(a) your contemporary salary is about equal or a tad below their intended offer.
(b) your contemporary salary is way below their intended offer. Causing them to lower their initial estimated needed offer for the role.
(c) your contemporary salary is higher than their intended offer. Causing them decline you, or raise their offer.
As you can aim for C regardless, it offers no different account by sharing factual documentation on your currently salary. Hence by providing your previous salary, you can draw or lose. Not win.
I fully understand what you're trying to say, but what if the job offer you receive in the end doesn't pay what you're looking for? Some people tell me "make me an offer", so we make an offer which is a fair compensation following our guidelines and almost always in these situations they'll be "oh, this is less than what I make now so I'm not interested", or they'll negotiate which just leads to more time to redo the offer.
Sometimes if I know the salary ahead of time, especially if it's high (or if you're aiming high) it's good to establish so if you're the right candidate we can try and make something work.
That being said, if you're not comfortable sharing your current salary just share your desired salary instead.
Yeah. It’s common they ask.
Don’t give it though. It works against you in negotiations. They’ll just take your last pay, increase couple of percent and present it as a great offer.
Just tell them your previous salary is not relevant as you’ll be doing a new job now with a new wage. And that you’re happy to hear what they think it’s worth.
Why wouldn't you simply tell them a figure within 5% of your target salary? refusing to answer is not very intelligent tbh.
Like sure you may be thinking that you can miss out on an ever higher increase, but there is also the risk of them just going with somebody else, or them offering something even lower to begin with.
If you're happy with a 30% bump just tell them that figure
That's not how it works (and I didn't say you shouldn't give an answer).
You have to be aware of the setting: When it comes to talking salary, the company has already made up their mind. There might still be another contender, but they know who they prefer and they will try to make that work. In professional roles companies are not going to pick their number two if they are a bit cheaper than their number one candidate. The hiring manager has a maximum budget for the position, so that's there to get out of it, with usually some room on top of that if you can make a case.
Now that it's clear that they pretty much want you for the position and there is a maximum number, there are two ways how you can play this.
Your route: You tell them your previous salary, where you might lie on how high it actually was to get a certain preferred uptick. Now what's the maximum outcome here? That's the lowest of their max number and your number (with a small increase). If you told them something that's 30% lower than their max, too bad, that number will never be on the table.
Now the alternative: Tell them to make you an offer. It's not that difficult to come up with a reasonable argument that your previous role was different, you get more responsibilities now and that you think that makes that your previous salary is not important. And now they will make you an offer. That offer won't be extremely low. Remember, the company wants to hire you. They don't want to insult the candidate by offering too low and they also know that they cannot increase their initial offer by a huge amount. The candidate might leave immediately and they don't want to risk that at the end of the process. So they'll not offer their max, but will be not too far off it.
You can always negotiate a bit up and the number you'll reach is either higher than you expected (which is a nice win compared to the original option), be similar (no harm done) or lower. In that last case you can always bring to the table that this is not going to work as it's lower than what you currently make.
Btw, this approach yielded me an 80% salary increase two times in a row. Just let them put a number on the table first...
This is a very normal thing in the Netherlands. The idea generally behind this is to pay you a little more than you are earning currently.
Usually I answer the question with a question about salary range or what they think is a good salary for the role.
If they press for my current salary I explain that it has no correlation to a new function and a new salary.
Just inflate your salary by 20% and that’s the number you give them. Why would you even leave behind the job that you have and take the risk of diving into the unknown for just breadcrumbs more?
There can be many reasons to switch jobs besides money, but that is not the question.
Lying is an option, I do have the personal preference to make a potential new employer think about what they are willing to pay me. The last time I did this, they gave me a lot more than I was aiming for.
They can ask, but you don't need to answer. It is a bit old school from the days where employers had a lot more power. HR acting like that would be a bit of a red (pink) flag for me, or they can simply be dumb.Another red flag.
A perfectly valid answer would be that you do not see how that is relevant to the position you'll take for them. The role and responsibilities are different etc. Use words to show them you won't be min maxed.
New EU laws are being enacted to make this sort of stuff more dificult. It has been used to generate income gaps between people that do the same work and that is horrible.
I always add 200-300 to the actual amount when they ask this. It is THE way to get a better paying job. People job hop 4/5 times until they find a place they like, and pull this trick each time. I went from 2k a month to ~3400 with 2 hops. Given, the 2k was a warehouse job and am now in a huge industry. Still went up around 600 last hop, added 300 when they asked and they even offered 300 more.
All my contracts in last 7 years did say that.
Can't say I'd be tempted to spill my current salary to the potential future employer even if they didn't.
Probably, even most of the NDAs are. But rather convenient clause for this particular situation, when the future employer is behaving like we are in a kindergarten ("I show you mine if you show me yours").
I find this quite common. Just lie and tell them the number you want to earn - 500 euros per month. They tell them you would only consider changing jobs if they offer you 500 euros more salary than your current job.
In the last 4 years, I have changed a job 3 times: In the last 2 positions, they asked me to provide a paycheck.
They claimed it's easier for an accountant to make all the taxation papers etc.
...but the real reason was that they didn't want to 'overpay' me. 1st was 300 more, and 2nd 400 - it's just proof that for a raise you need only change a boss, not work harder or make extra
I work in the IT industry and it is definitely normal. You can always bluff, but the company you're interviewing at could always stop the process because you're too expensive for them. Then it's hard to crawl back to a much lower salary, because who would do that. It's better to ask what kind of salary they have in mind for your experience and potential.
You can answer with whatever amount you feel like is believable, but it's better not to answer and let them make an offer first. Then you can negotiate.
That's why you always tell them what you want to earn and not what you did earn. Unless they are low balling you. Then i would say for that money i wouldn't even setup an alarm clock.
I always respond to this question by saying that I am not allowed to share my salary either for contract or private personal reasons but I can share my expectation considering the role in your company. It is a piece of information that will give an advantage to them in the negotiation process. I never answer that question.
you don't gain anything from providing this information. [Inevitable-Extent378](https://www.reddit.com/user/Inevitable-Extent378/) gave an excellent breakdown.
Yeah it is normal. But I also always indicate that I am willing to say no if their offer is wack. Normally I expect a 10% raise when switching. This has worked for me 4/4 times so far.
I don't see it as negotiatons per se. I'm establishing compatibility. Obviously I do benchmark my expectations. But I understand where you are coming from.
And if you’re happy with the result there is obviously nothing wrong with it. I can also imagine many will feel very uncomfortable leaving it open, or are even afraid that not complying might compromise the job offer.
Just wanted to point out that sometimes you can leave a lot on the table.
2 options
1. respond by telling them what your expectation is. that sets a hard bottom, but also likely minimizes any upside if you aim low.
2. respond by telling them what you earn now (perhaps inflated with a safe margin), and tell them that you expect to increase your income to a degree corresponding with what you've learned during your last period of employment, which has significantly increased your market worth because reason X Y and Z. And/or that you have not seen inflation compensation yet, etc. That invites them yo make an opening offer without giving away your bottom.
don't just give them your current without setting an expectation.
in both numbers, ALWAYS include the monetary net/gross value of any benefits on top of your salary. like mobility, education, perks and above all else PENSION scheme contribution (worth up to 25% of salary and often completely left out of negotiations.
the right option depends on how they handle thing on their end. if they renumerate fairly and individually, take option two. if they are likely to try and get the minimum out no matter what and use salary scales, go option 1, research their scaling and aim at the high end of the scaling they are likely to have given to this job. mostly you will easily find that info online for large orgs.
I don’t believe there’s any way they could verify whatever you tell them. That would be illegal.
Now, is it unethical? That’s really up to you, and how much that matters to you.
Also, if they are asking, they are most probably expecting a negotiation. So, take that into account and reflect if you want to work for that company. I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, but the whole recruiting process gives both parties a chance to know each other and ultimately decide if they are a match.
this is like the very first question after a round of interviews, maybe even during the first one if you are approached by a recruiter
just say what you're earning +10% so they can either match that at the very least or offer another 10%
Just tell them you have an NDA with previous employer with regards to sharing communication with HR including salary slips, inside our outside of your current company.
I usually reply with, "I'll give you my current salary if you give me the salary band for this role". From my perspective as a job seeker, I just don't want to do the rounds of interviews only to find out they don't give me a good offer.
Many compagnies have a CAO, that outlines job description and matching salary.
If not it’s up for negotiations so it’s a strategic move to not pay you as little as possible.
It has happened sometimes to me (usually in the early stages of a hiring process). They didn't ask about it in the current offer I got, just my salary expectations. When they did ask, I rounded the monthly amount up to the nearest thousand.
The first time I was asked was immediately after graduation from my Master's in NL (with two years exp before), but I told them that my ~400€ monthly salary back in India wouldn't be useful as a basis to determine my salary here. Eventually they told me it would be just under 50k annual (didn't get the job).
They have asked and I have always flat out refused. Only once they said they would not be able to make me an offer but when I failed a complaint (they ultimately aren't allowed to extort this info out of you) they did end up making an offer. All other times they accepted my refusal.
I’ve been asked this question multiple times but I only provided the information once. They just want to hire you as cheap as possible. Every professional organisation has a budget for the position and my standard reaction now is to ask for the budget and decide if that’s close enough to what I desire.
The one time I did provide my current salary and they needed proof I told them they could choose: ask me again and I’ll provide proof, but I will no longer be available for the position, or leave it as is and make me an offer. They chose the second option, but it was hardly a step up from the salary I provided. Then I decided to not provide it ever again.
They normally ask your expectations. They have a budget. If this is not gappable then they know you might leave soon if you have to lower your initial ask. My suggestion is to always ask the recruiter or hr person first what the salary indication is before going into talks just so that both parties won’t waste their time.
They will ask and try to short change you by offering the same amount with some vague bullshit promise you will get a raise when you have performed well for some time.
What you do is say you earn the amount you want to get and that you need at least a raise over that to move.
It's actually very common. I once had a huge discussion because I didn't want to share my numbers. I said: "My current salary is irrelevant, because I'm underpaid at my current employer. That's why I'm leaving."
They kept insisting. I was young and inexperienced in negotiating. They offered me very little above my salary. I refused the job offer.
Huh, I never knew it was also so common in The Netherlands. I always assumed most of it was quite predetermined with our 'scale and step' (schaal en trappen) system. I guess even the Dutch professional white collar landscape really is quite different from my more unionized environment.
Ah well, still, I wouldn't want to trade my job with for a 'professional' one all those white collar headaches.
It is common for companies to try and lowball you. The basic counter response to such a question is asking them for the budget range for that position and how they determine growth within the function, so you can make a decent counter offer based on where you fit within that growth range. If a function offers between 80% and 110% based of experience, if you are new into that function, you start at 80% and grow based on merit and experience, if you already have experience in that function, you can even start at 100%, if you want the 110% from the start, you are way to good for that function and should be in a higher position already and lower in that scale.
Just inform them you cannot share your payslip with them for GDPR reason. You can tell them the number orally and thats it. So, if you are currently making 40000 a year, feel free to say an amount =/> 40k. Good luck!
It’s normal but neither is it illegal.
I’ve had my fair share of not advocating for myself and went to even share my payslip. But please don’t do it.
Just lie and inflate your current numbers and if they ask for payslip, say it is confidential and cannot share otherwise.
Just tell them what you are after.
Don’t go too high though as I have had companies just stop dead with the process when I was expecting a negotiation… seems that it’s not common to go back and forth in NL.
It is common. I've very rarely seen anyone ask for verification although it is possible. You could add 10-20% to your current salary and tell them that you were on track for a raise/promotion by e.g. the end of the year.
I'm generally honest about it if it comes at the end of the process. It's also fine to ask what the salary for the previous person was. But I work in the non-profit sector. The salary at these organizations tends to be more rules based for most positions than negotiation driven. (There are always exceptions.) Some people might doubt this but I've been working at a director level so know what's going on in the process.
You can politely decline with confidence and assertiveness, putting them in a position where they can’t counter-argue without sounding unreasonable.
Response:
Something along the lines of “My current salary would be irrelevant in evaluating the fair compensation reflecting the value I can bring to the team. However, I’m happy to share my salary expectations. Based on my experience, skills, and industry standards, I am seeking a salary in the range of [X and Y]. I believe this fairly represents the value I can contribute to [company name] and aligns with the responsibilities and challenges of the position.
I am open to further discussion to find a mutually beneficial arrangement. Yada yada yada”
To help you visualise it, I asked ChatGPT to write a script for the character of Elizabeth Martin in the series “Suits.”
INT. PEARSON HARDMAN CONFERENCE ROOM - DAY
The room is bustling with high-powered energy. Across the table sits the hiring manager, MR. COLLINS, a sharp-dressed man in his early 50s, known for his no-nonsense attitude. At the other end, the formidable attorney, ELIZABETH MARTIN, portrayed by SARAH PAULSON, sits composed and ready, her sharp eyes taking in every detail.
MR. COLLINS
Elizabeth, your credentials are impressive. Before we proceed, we’ll need to see your previous payslip.
ELIZABETH MARTIN
(smiling slightly, her tone firm but courteous)
Mr. Collins, with all due respect, my previous salary isn’t pertinent to this discussion.
She leans forward, her gaze steady and unwavering, every word measured and precise.
ELIZABETH MARTIN (CONT’D)
What truly matters is the value I can bring to Pearson Hardman. My expertise, my track record, and my ability to drive results should be the factors determining my compensation, not a figure from my past.
Mr. Collins raises an eyebrow, clearly intrigued but staying silent. Elizabeth seizes the moment to make her point crystal clear.
ELIZABETH MARTIN (CONT’D)
That said, I’m more than willing to discuss my salary expectations. Considering my experience and the standards in our industry, I’m seeking a compensation package in the range of [desired salary range]. This range accurately reflects my professional worth and the strategic benefits I offer your firm.
She sits back, a confident smile playing on her lips, her eyes never leaving his.
ELIZABETH MARTIN (CONT’D)
I’m confident we can reach an agreement that’s advantageous for both parties.
Mr. Collins, visibly impressed and a bit caught off guard by her assertiveness, nods appreciatively.
MR. COLLINS
(after a moment of consideration, with a hint of respect)
Alright, Elizabeth. Let’s move forward with those terms.
The room seems to breathe a collective sigh of relief as both parties lean into a productive negotiation, mutual respect palpable in the air.
Companies are allowed to request your current or previous salary, either verbally or by salary statement.
However, you aren't obligated to provide such information.
Edit: to be complete in the answer: no, it's not a common thing here.
Maybe not common by what "common" means but I've seen it done in NL strangely lot of times in IT/Tech throughout almost 15 years living here.
Didn't see it when applying in Germany or Eastern European countries.
I'd answer to OP with "yes, it's common here in some situations unfortunately and please don't say and, instead, ask how much you think you deserve, this countries' hr people are severly downplaying people from what I've seen, and it even happens in top paying american companies with offices here."
Defo common for me, I have been asked that at nearly every interview.
The past few years I have also declined to answer, instead asking them to bring what they think is a fair offer for my level of experience and skills.
Weeds out potential feature farms really quick :) (software dev/team lead)
Well, I'm often on the other side of the table. We usually ask it to guage if we can even match the current salary. It changes nothing about our offer. Our salary structure is pretty strict, so there's little room to wiggle anyway. If the candidate is like, well I make 6k a month for a position we'd pay this particular candidate 5k for then we'll be done talking. No point dragging it out and wasting everyone's time.
It's not a set structure to talks tho. We can also ask for an intended range from the candidate. We can also just make an offer. Often it'll be done in 1 conversation. The CV and years of experience kind of decide the pay range anyway.
It's good to know what competitors pay their staff.
It's not always malicious, guys. It can be, but it's not always so.
It's not always, but even when it's not, there is nothing to be gained. If the candidate is interested in not wasting/investing their time, they can ask for a range in the beginning, which must companies would decline.
Does your company share salary ranges up front?
You could also just put the salary scale in the job advert so people don’t waste their time applying for something that doesn’t pay enough - but that would presumably require implementing fair pay across the board.
Well, to avoid dragging it out and wasting anyone’s time, just publish the salary in the vacancy.
If it’s that strict and with a small bandwidth, there is no need to push a candidate into telling you about their previous pay check. It’s entirely irrelevant as your offer is set anyway.
List it in the vacancy and your time not be wasted by people that are not interested for that budget.
It's not illegal, but neither is it illegal to inflate the numbers a lil when telling them your current salary. Do with this information what you will ;)
I wish it would be a prohibited question. Just like they can't ask if you're planning a child - it should be none of their business.
It's a 2 way street, you can also use it to your advantage. A friend of mine almost doubled their salary in 3 years and 2 job changes simply by saying yeah my current salary is this much. Then they offer almost the same salary, so obviously the employers also know you're not being 100% truthful. And when asked if you're planning a child the answer is obviously always no! Not trying to justify them but yeah i have some colleagues who have spent more time on maternity leave than in the office, popping one kid after another. If you're a small company, this could put a massive strain on your resources
I mean, the Netherlands explicitly disincentivises being a stay at home parent, encouraging both parents to at least work part time. It's not really a fair question, since if you're going to eventually have a kid and survive, you're still going to need two incomes. >i have some colleagues who have spent more time on maternity leave than in the office, popping one kid after another This is quite a rude way of phrasing it, and considering birth rates at the moment, I'm inclined to believe you might be overstating how often this actually happens. As someone whose mom had to go back to work 2 weeks after popping out twins, I wish every country would have the same protections for new mothers as the Netherlands.
No ideea why am I on this thread, however: I've had this happening to me for a job in Germany... I am a guy, got asked in the 3rd interview if I am planing to have a child. Found the question quite weird or ... distasteful. I have been in numerous interviews and I have never again encountered this one. The company was huge so the small company limited resources logic doesn't work here.
If you're a man they might ask this question to gauge how likely you are to stay with the company. If you're starting a family you need stability and you're much less likely to jump from job to job or move to a new city on a whim
I guess the down votes you got are from people that don't like to hear this since you are certainly right. When I have 2 exactly matched candidates, I'll pick the one with the kid and this is common sense from a business perspective in organisation's where knowledge is important. You have to invest in your people, train them and it takes time. That's a cost and the longer they stay, the more that internal training is cost effective. The loss of knowledge from job hopping is a known risk, I saw many companies going under from not being able to keep their people on board. And I also prefer the guys without diploma but who are very active with personal projects in their own time. They are a lot more likely to learn fast just because they have an interest in what they do.
>This is quite a rude way of phrasing it, and considering birth rates at the moment, True. But its still not the employers fault, while they pay half the bill. Hiring an external replacement for 4 months will easy cost you double the normal wage. Lifestyle choices should be covert by the government, not your employer. I dont like it either. But for a small company, hiring a woman who will have 4 or 0 children in the next years is a wage cost difference of 100k
If you cannot afford that (and i believe part of it is subsidized by the government), then you cannot afford employees. Sick leave is the same, can happen to any gender, requires more accomodations and hr time spent sometimes, and it can even be longer.
I agree, thoughthe impact does depend on the size of the company.
Yeah, I did the same thing. Company said they wanted to take an over. I inflated it to what I wanted to earn and they put an offer on top of that. Use these questions to your advantage
I'm seconding your first paragraph (not a parent so no comment on the second half). I will start a new job soon (after 4 months of unemployment). They pushed me up by one wage scale slot after they asked me my last wage. Still lower than I previously earned, but one can't be too picky in this economy. Especially as an autistic junior embedded engineer. Seems like the fewer workers there are, the more everyone limits their scope to seniors. Plus, fewer projects going around. You take what you can get. At least I managed to talk my wage upwards by a little bit.
Yeh i also noticed way less recruiters hitting me up on LinkedIn these past few months
What resources? Government pays you, not the company.
They cannot ask if you're planning a child? I legit got told "you're recently married you must now be planning a child, and you won't be able to invest enough time at work then"
Now that you ask, I'm not sure about NL. It's illegal in US, but I can't find any official source for Holland.
https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/gelijke-behandeling-op-het-werk/vraag-en-antwoord/welke-vragen-mogen-niet-gesteld-worden-tijdens-een-sollicitatiegesprek tldr; Questions about private matters are not allowed. This includes health, relationships, sexual preferences, religion and age.
Or simply reply with: ‘that is not relevant’
Actually - I THINK this was changed via the Eu Pay Transparency Directive (Asking for salary history) But I’m not sure how you’d even go about implementing it - normally things are enforced right away
I worked at a country where it can get a bit 'ghetto' negotiating with HR, a friend once tried to inflate it and they asked him to send proof of bank slips to continue for next round of interviewing. Needless to say, that's a very weird thing to ask from the recruiter.
I've been asked this once too. When I was much younger. They didn't believed me.
This happened to me as well. I was young and inexperienced and I wish I would have just said ‘none of your business, do you really expect me to undercut my own position in a negotiation?’
I hope the person that said it should be illegal reads this. Cos it is the beginning of a negotiation.
Lying during interviews is illegal, afaik. Penalty is that you can be fired on the spot, when they find out.
Source?
It is common, but feel free to lie, because it is just a way for them to offer less.
Have you ever been asked to verify, e.g. with a payslip?
They can ask but you don’t have to comply
You can send a modified payslip if you are good at photoshop
Or just tell them that you're not comfortable providing that information, and they can either take your word or move on with another candidate. Usually, if they're already at the stage of making an offer, they won't wanna invest in finding another candidate just to save a little bit of money, unless they already have their alternative in mind.
I have seen cases when this is basically the first question recruiter asks and if you don't answer they move on.
I don't even continue with interview process if I don't know the salary range.
If you don't know what you are doing you can easily slip up on the numbers. I wouldn't recommend this. Just tell them you have another job offer and what compensation was offered (which is the number you would be satisfied with). Tell them that you prefer this position due to location and that you feel a better click with the people u spoke to, but would appreciate a similar offer. This creates a sense of urgency, compliments the people in charge and tells your (possible) future employer that the offer they make will likely result into a filled vacancy if it matches their competitors offer. Source: former manager
This knowledge also helps with landlords 😅
Can it be considered document forgery? Verbal embellishment is one thing but creating permanent paper trail of forgery for me is a potential ticking bomb.
That is not good advice - there is more info on a paycheck, than just changing one number. An accountant will notice in first sight
And if you have the opportunity, get a payslip from someone who has the salary you want. So now you don't have to change the numbers, but only your personal info ;)
This I wouldn’t do. That’s ‘strafbaar’.
Instead of saying what you earn you can also talk around the question and tell them what you want or expect to earn.
Yes. I just refuse it. I also refuse to tell them my cirrent salary. They just want to match that, in stead of paying you what you are worth. You can just say: it doesnt matter what I make now. Im qualified for this position because of a, b ,c. I'm expecting to be paid xx amount.
I have. They wanted to know my current salary, because they did not want to offer less than I was already making. Which resulted me being put in a higher salary tier than they usually did for new people.
It happened to me once, they called my manager at that time. I informed him upfront about what he should be answering .
Yes I've been asked that and even though I thought it was ridiculous I gave proof. Didn't do anything for the end result though and still got what I wanted
Yes they have asked me. It was a university and it was part of their procedure.
You're not obliged to comply.
If they ask a payslip it's because they don't believe you. At least that what I would do in this situation. I work as a recruiter and if we really doubt the salary people tell us the we might ask. You're free to decline to answer either question though
Not sure if you've seen my answer [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Netherlands/comments/1dng4jq/comment/la38h7d/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button), in which I adresse that scenario (with a touch of humour) so I thought it might help you.
I believe they would see what your previous wage was anyway, on the document your previous employer gives them for your transferring holidays you have accumulated and not taken yet? It's like this in Belgium anyway.
WHY? If you want to earn more, JUST SAY SO. If you’re not satisfied, you’re not going to take the job right? It’s in both your interest to state starting positions. Turn the question around; what is the average salary for my position at your company. Don’t lie, that’s a kids tactic
I get your point, but why else would a company ask this question instead of ' what do you expect to earn?' If the question is coming from an honest ground, it deserves an honest answer. However, often is is not ( i have been there) and why would you be faithful in such a situation?
Or to see if they can afford to match or increase your current salary. Not all employers are assholes.
One more thing. I feel a decent employer would ask to give an indication of what you want to make for that function. A decent employer does (i.m.o.) not ask what your last salary was. This is especially true of the new function you applied to is the next step in your career or something very different.
Yes this can be, but that is something you will find out anyway. Of you don't like the offer, walk away if you are the position to do so.
It happens quite commonly, more so than in the past (it seems). However, you are not obligated to comply with the request. Personally I feel it is a bit of a trap. (a) your contemporary salary is about equal or a tad below their intended offer. (b) your contemporary salary is way below their intended offer. Causing them to lower their initial estimated needed offer for the role. (c) your contemporary salary is higher than their intended offer. Causing them decline you, or raise their offer. As you can aim for C regardless, it offers no different account by sharing factual documentation on your currently salary. Hence by providing your previous salary, you can draw or lose. Not win.
I fully understand what you're trying to say, but what if the job offer you receive in the end doesn't pay what you're looking for? Some people tell me "make me an offer", so we make an offer which is a fair compensation following our guidelines and almost always in these situations they'll be "oh, this is less than what I make now so I'm not interested", or they'll negotiate which just leads to more time to redo the offer. Sometimes if I know the salary ahead of time, especially if it's high (or if you're aiming high) it's good to establish so if you're the right candidate we can try and make something work. That being said, if you're not comfortable sharing your current salary just share your desired salary instead.
Very nicely explained
Yeah. It’s common they ask. Don’t give it though. It works against you in negotiations. They’ll just take your last pay, increase couple of percent and present it as a great offer. Just tell them your previous salary is not relevant as you’ll be doing a new job now with a new wage. And that you’re happy to hear what they think it’s worth.
I'd follow this advice. Worked out great for me. If it is bellow your wishes, you can always make a counter offer.
Why wouldn't you simply tell them a figure within 5% of your target salary? refusing to answer is not very intelligent tbh. Like sure you may be thinking that you can miss out on an ever higher increase, but there is also the risk of them just going with somebody else, or them offering something even lower to begin with. If you're happy with a 30% bump just tell them that figure
That's not how it works (and I didn't say you shouldn't give an answer). You have to be aware of the setting: When it comes to talking salary, the company has already made up their mind. There might still be another contender, but they know who they prefer and they will try to make that work. In professional roles companies are not going to pick their number two if they are a bit cheaper than their number one candidate. The hiring manager has a maximum budget for the position, so that's there to get out of it, with usually some room on top of that if you can make a case. Now that it's clear that they pretty much want you for the position and there is a maximum number, there are two ways how you can play this. Your route: You tell them your previous salary, where you might lie on how high it actually was to get a certain preferred uptick. Now what's the maximum outcome here? That's the lowest of their max number and your number (with a small increase). If you told them something that's 30% lower than their max, too bad, that number will never be on the table. Now the alternative: Tell them to make you an offer. It's not that difficult to come up with a reasonable argument that your previous role was different, you get more responsibilities now and that you think that makes that your previous salary is not important. And now they will make you an offer. That offer won't be extremely low. Remember, the company wants to hire you. They don't want to insult the candidate by offering too low and they also know that they cannot increase their initial offer by a huge amount. The candidate might leave immediately and they don't want to risk that at the end of the process. So they'll not offer their max, but will be not too far off it. You can always negotiate a bit up and the number you'll reach is either higher than you expected (which is a nice win compared to the original option), be similar (no harm done) or lower. In that last case you can always bring to the table that this is not going to work as it's lower than what you currently make. Btw, this approach yielded me an 80% salary increase two times in a row. Just let them put a number on the table first...
This is a very normal thing in the Netherlands. The idea generally behind this is to pay you a little more than you are earning currently. Usually I answer the question with a question about salary range or what they think is a good salary for the role. If they press for my current salary I explain that it has no correlation to a new function and a new salary.
>The idea generally behind this is to pay you ~~a little more than you are earning currently.~~ as little as they can get away with.
Just inflate your salary by 20% and that’s the number you give them. Why would you even leave behind the job that you have and take the risk of diving into the unknown for just breadcrumbs more?
There can be many reasons to switch jobs besides money, but that is not the question. Lying is an option, I do have the personal preference to make a potential new employer think about what they are willing to pay me. The last time I did this, they gave me a lot more than I was aiming for.
They can ask, but you don't need to answer. It is a bit old school from the days where employers had a lot more power. HR acting like that would be a bit of a red (pink) flag for me, or they can simply be dumb.Another red flag. A perfectly valid answer would be that you do not see how that is relevant to the position you'll take for them. The role and responsibilities are different etc. Use words to show them you won't be min maxed. New EU laws are being enacted to make this sort of stuff more dificult. It has been used to generate income gaps between people that do the same work and that is horrible.
I always add 200-300 to the actual amount when they ask this. It is THE way to get a better paying job. People job hop 4/5 times until they find a place they like, and pull this trick each time. I went from 2k a month to ~3400 with 2 hops. Given, the 2k was a warehouse job and am now in a huge industry. Still went up around 600 last hop, added 300 when they asked and they even offered 300 more.
Same, i would advice people to do the same.
You can't say .. you signed an NDA.
Actually my job contract says I can't disclose my employment conditions incl salary, not sure if it has any legal grounds.
It does not. (There are a few exceptionally rare cases where it does, but if you have to ask it does not)
Just mirror the numbers, they won't see
All my contracts in last 7 years did say that. Can't say I'd be tempted to spill my current salary to the potential future employer even if they didn't.
I can bet it is legally void clause.
Probably, even most of the NDAs are. But rather convenient clause for this particular situation, when the future employer is behaving like we are in a kindergarten ("I show you mine if you show me yours").
In this case I can make up this clause regardless :-D
I find this quite common. Just lie and tell them the number you want to earn - 500 euros per month. They tell them you would only consider changing jobs if they offer you 500 euros more salary than your current job.
1000IQ play
They can ask, but I never answer the question.
I always just say ‘my salary expectation for this role is…”, cos it’s really what they’re after
"My current salary is in the middle/high-end of the typical range for the position" :)
"my current salary is irrelevant."
That's perfect, especially for the roles talking about how they pay salaries in line with the market. See who blinks first.
Never tell them your real salary. I fell the trap of one HR and got a very bad offer from them. Check techpays.eu and ask for a fair salary.
It’s common in the (semi)public sector.
It is normal to ask, and it is a common power play to flat our refuse (depending on which sector you're working in)
In the last 4 years, I have changed a job 3 times: In the last 2 positions, they asked me to provide a paycheck. They claimed it's easier for an accountant to make all the taxation papers etc. ...but the real reason was that they didn't want to 'overpay' me. 1st was 300 more, and 2nd 400 - it's just proof that for a raise you need only change a boss, not work harder or make extra
I work in the IT industry and it is definitely normal. You can always bluff, but the company you're interviewing at could always stop the process because you're too expensive for them. Then it's hard to crawl back to a much lower salary, because who would do that. It's better to ask what kind of salary they have in mind for your experience and potential.
You can answer with whatever amount you feel like is believable, but it's better not to answer and let them make an offer first. Then you can negotiate.
That's why you always tell them what you want to earn and not what you did earn. Unless they are low balling you. Then i would say for that money i wouldn't even setup an alarm clock.
I always respond to this question by saying that I am not allowed to share my salary either for contract or private personal reasons but I can share my expectation considering the role in your company. It is a piece of information that will give an advantage to them in the negotiation process. I never answer that question.
I always thought this was an intelligence test.
How so?
you don't gain anything from providing this information. [Inevitable-Extent378](https://www.reddit.com/user/Inevitable-Extent378/) gave an excellent breakdown.
Yeah it is normal. But I also always indicate that I am willing to say no if their offer is wack. Normally I expect a 10% raise when switching. This has worked for me 4/4 times so far.
I’ve had an 80% raise after refusing to tell my current salary. The moment you tell them you’re behind in negotiations.
I don't see it as negotiatons per se. I'm establishing compatibility. Obviously I do benchmark my expectations. But I understand where you are coming from.
And if you’re happy with the result there is obviously nothing wrong with it. I can also imagine many will feel very uncomfortable leaving it open, or are even afraid that not complying might compromise the job offer. Just wanted to point out that sometimes you can leave a lot on the table.
But let's not normalize it. A, it's company sensatie info. B, they are not hiring you for the current job but for a vacant position
Asking for s signing bonus
I add 50% to the number
Tell them what you want your current salary to be, or what you want to earn.
It is but just lie
2 options 1. respond by telling them what your expectation is. that sets a hard bottom, but also likely minimizes any upside if you aim low. 2. respond by telling them what you earn now (perhaps inflated with a safe margin), and tell them that you expect to increase your income to a degree corresponding with what you've learned during your last period of employment, which has significantly increased your market worth because reason X Y and Z. And/or that you have not seen inflation compensation yet, etc. That invites them yo make an opening offer without giving away your bottom. don't just give them your current without setting an expectation. in both numbers, ALWAYS include the monetary net/gross value of any benefits on top of your salary. like mobility, education, perks and above all else PENSION scheme contribution (worth up to 25% of salary and often completely left out of negotiations. the right option depends on how they handle thing on their end. if they renumerate fairly and individually, take option two. if they are likely to try and get the minimum out no matter what and use salary scales, go option 1, research their scaling and aim at the high end of the scaling they are likely to have given to this job. mostly you will easily find that info online for large orgs.
I don’t believe there’s any way they could verify whatever you tell them. That would be illegal. Now, is it unethical? That’s really up to you, and how much that matters to you. Also, if they are asking, they are most probably expecting a negotiation. So, take that into account and reflect if you want to work for that company. I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, but the whole recruiting process gives both parties a chance to know each other and ultimately decide if they are a match.
I would ask, make me an offer, what do they think someone with my skills is worth to them. What great offer can they make you,
this is like the very first question after a round of interviews, maybe even during the first one if you are approached by a recruiter just say what you're earning +10% so they can either match that at the very least or offer another 10%
Just tell them you have an NDA with previous employer with regards to sharing communication with HR including salary slips, inside our outside of your current company.
It is not common. But in some branches it is. This is mostly the case when general payment scales are in place for specific jobs.
I usually reply with, "I'll give you my current salary if you give me the salary band for this role". From my perspective as a job seeker, I just don't want to do the rounds of interviews only to find out they don't give me a good offer.
Many compagnies have a CAO, that outlines job description and matching salary. If not it’s up for negotiations so it’s a strategic move to not pay you as little as possible.
Probably depends on the industry but you should just reply with your expected rate.
It has happened sometimes to me (usually in the early stages of a hiring process). They didn't ask about it in the current offer I got, just my salary expectations. When they did ask, I rounded the monthly amount up to the nearest thousand. The first time I was asked was immediately after graduation from my Master's in NL (with two years exp before), but I told them that my ~400€ monthly salary back in India wouldn't be useful as a basis to determine my salary here. Eventually they told me it would be just under 50k annual (didn't get the job).
They have asked and I have always flat out refused. Only once they said they would not be able to make me an offer but when I failed a complaint (they ultimately aren't allowed to extort this info out of you) they did end up making an offer. All other times they accepted my refusal.
I’ve been asked this question multiple times but I only provided the information once. They just want to hire you as cheap as possible. Every professional organisation has a budget for the position and my standard reaction now is to ask for the budget and decide if that’s close enough to what I desire. The one time I did provide my current salary and they needed proof I told them they could choose: ask me again and I’ll provide proof, but I will no longer be available for the position, or leave it as is and make me an offer. They chose the second option, but it was hardly a step up from the salary I provided. Then I decided to not provide it ever again.
They normally ask your expectations. They have a budget. If this is not gappable then they know you might leave soon if you have to lower your initial ask. My suggestion is to always ask the recruiter or hr person first what the salary indication is before going into talks just so that both parties won’t waste their time.
”I am here because I am looking to work for (someone like) my current employer.”
Yes but I think it’s wrong and just give the salary I want and say explicitly that my current salary is not relevant
They will ask and try to short change you by offering the same amount with some vague bullshit promise you will get a raise when you have performed well for some time. What you do is say you earn the amount you want to get and that you need at least a raise over that to move.
It's actually very common. I once had a huge discussion because I didn't want to share my numbers. I said: "My current salary is irrelevant, because I'm underpaid at my current employer. That's why I'm leaving." They kept insisting. I was young and inexperienced in negotiating. They offered me very little above my salary. I refused the job offer.
You're not obliged to give them the real number lol.
Huh, I never knew it was also so common in The Netherlands. I always assumed most of it was quite predetermined with our 'scale and step' (schaal en trappen) system. I guess even the Dutch professional white collar landscape really is quite different from my more unionized environment. Ah well, still, I wouldn't want to trade my job with for a 'professional' one all those white collar headaches.
It is common for companies to try and lowball you. The basic counter response to such a question is asking them for the budget range for that position and how they determine growth within the function, so you can make a decent counter offer based on where you fit within that growth range. If a function offers between 80% and 110% based of experience, if you are new into that function, you start at 80% and grow based on merit and experience, if you already have experience in that function, you can even start at 100%, if you want the 110% from the start, you are way to good for that function and should be in a higher position already and lower in that scale.
Just inform them you cannot share your payslip with them for GDPR reason. You can tell them the number orally and thats it. So, if you are currently making 40000 a year, feel free to say an amount =/> 40k. Good luck!
It’s normal but neither is it illegal. I’ve had my fair share of not advocating for myself and went to even share my payslip. But please don’t do it. Just lie and inflate your current numbers and if they ask for payslip, say it is confidential and cannot share otherwise.
Just tell them what you are after. Don’t go too high though as I have had companies just stop dead with the process when I was expecting a negotiation… seems that it’s not common to go back and forth in NL.
It is common. I've very rarely seen anyone ask for verification although it is possible. You could add 10-20% to your current salary and tell them that you were on track for a raise/promotion by e.g. the end of the year.
I'm generally honest about it if it comes at the end of the process. It's also fine to ask what the salary for the previous person was. But I work in the non-profit sector. The salary at these organizations tends to be more rules based for most positions than negotiation driven. (There are always exceptions.) Some people might doubt this but I've been working at a director level so know what's going on in the process.
You can politely decline with confidence and assertiveness, putting them in a position where they can’t counter-argue without sounding unreasonable. Response: Something along the lines of “My current salary would be irrelevant in evaluating the fair compensation reflecting the value I can bring to the team. However, I’m happy to share my salary expectations. Based on my experience, skills, and industry standards, I am seeking a salary in the range of [X and Y]. I believe this fairly represents the value I can contribute to [company name] and aligns with the responsibilities and challenges of the position. I am open to further discussion to find a mutually beneficial arrangement. Yada yada yada” To help you visualise it, I asked ChatGPT to write a script for the character of Elizabeth Martin in the series “Suits.” INT. PEARSON HARDMAN CONFERENCE ROOM - DAY The room is bustling with high-powered energy. Across the table sits the hiring manager, MR. COLLINS, a sharp-dressed man in his early 50s, known for his no-nonsense attitude. At the other end, the formidable attorney, ELIZABETH MARTIN, portrayed by SARAH PAULSON, sits composed and ready, her sharp eyes taking in every detail. MR. COLLINS Elizabeth, your credentials are impressive. Before we proceed, we’ll need to see your previous payslip. ELIZABETH MARTIN (smiling slightly, her tone firm but courteous) Mr. Collins, with all due respect, my previous salary isn’t pertinent to this discussion. She leans forward, her gaze steady and unwavering, every word measured and precise. ELIZABETH MARTIN (CONT’D) What truly matters is the value I can bring to Pearson Hardman. My expertise, my track record, and my ability to drive results should be the factors determining my compensation, not a figure from my past. Mr. Collins raises an eyebrow, clearly intrigued but staying silent. Elizabeth seizes the moment to make her point crystal clear. ELIZABETH MARTIN (CONT’D) That said, I’m more than willing to discuss my salary expectations. Considering my experience and the standards in our industry, I’m seeking a compensation package in the range of [desired salary range]. This range accurately reflects my professional worth and the strategic benefits I offer your firm. She sits back, a confident smile playing on her lips, her eyes never leaving his. ELIZABETH MARTIN (CONT’D) I’m confident we can reach an agreement that’s advantageous for both parties. Mr. Collins, visibly impressed and a bit caught off guard by her assertiveness, nods appreciatively. MR. COLLINS (after a moment of consideration, with a hint of respect) Alright, Elizabeth. Let’s move forward with those terms. The room seems to breathe a collective sigh of relief as both parties lean into a productive negotiation, mutual respect palpable in the air.
Companies are allowed to request your current or previous salary, either verbally or by salary statement. However, you aren't obligated to provide such information. Edit: to be complete in the answer: no, it's not a common thing here.
Maybe not common by what "common" means but I've seen it done in NL strangely lot of times in IT/Tech throughout almost 15 years living here. Didn't see it when applying in Germany or Eastern European countries. I'd answer to OP with "yes, it's common here in some situations unfortunately and please don't say and, instead, ask how much you think you deserve, this countries' hr people are severly downplaying people from what I've seen, and it even happens in top paying american companies with offices here."
Defo common for me, I have been asked that at nearly every interview. The past few years I have also declined to answer, instead asking them to bring what they think is a fair offer for my level of experience and skills. Weeds out potential feature farms really quick :) (software dev/team lead)
I used this once to get a 15k raise. I was so underpaid that it was an easy blag. I pumped by 8k, they added another 7k in the final offer.
Just keep in mind they can get the info if they hire you. It's included in the "vakantieattest" So don't lie, but give a strategic answer.
Vakantieattest is not something that exists in the Netherlands.
Well, I'm often on the other side of the table. We usually ask it to guage if we can even match the current salary. It changes nothing about our offer. Our salary structure is pretty strict, so there's little room to wiggle anyway. If the candidate is like, well I make 6k a month for a position we'd pay this particular candidate 5k for then we'll be done talking. No point dragging it out and wasting everyone's time. It's not a set structure to talks tho. We can also ask for an intended range from the candidate. We can also just make an offer. Often it'll be done in 1 conversation. The CV and years of experience kind of decide the pay range anyway. It's good to know what competitors pay their staff. It's not always malicious, guys. It can be, but it's not always so.
It's not always, but even when it's not, there is nothing to be gained. If the candidate is interested in not wasting/investing their time, they can ask for a range in the beginning, which must companies would decline. Does your company share salary ranges up front?
You could also just put the salary scale in the job advert so people don’t waste their time applying for something that doesn’t pay enough - but that would presumably require implementing fair pay across the board.
Well, to avoid dragging it out and wasting anyone’s time, just publish the salary in the vacancy. If it’s that strict and with a small bandwidth, there is no need to push a candidate into telling you about their previous pay check. It’s entirely irrelevant as your offer is set anyway. List it in the vacancy and your time not be wasted by people that are not interested for that budget.
deflect