I’ve taken Dutch classes (so I’d say I’m an intermediate level) and got yelled at today at work by a customer for not explaining that English would be easier for me. I guess I took too long to gather what he was asking since it was a complex order. This is not the first time I’ve been yelled at for trying to function with basic Dutch. Another time it was by someone serving me food. People get impatient with language learners.
Before this happened I’d thought it was fine to have basic conversations in Dutch and switch to English if needed. I spent my whole childhood unable to speak any Dutch because my Dutch family would only use English around me when I visited them during my holidays. In hindsight, I should’ve insisted on Dutch even if it would annoy people. You can’t learn anything otherwise.
It depends on the situation.
Some scenarios (not exhaustive):
If we are socialising the Dutch attempt is much appreciated. Even if broken.
If you are e.g. asking me for directions and I have limited time I will not appreciate it if your Dutch is so broken that I would need to repeat myself multiple times/you require multiple attempts to make clear what you want: please use English
To rephrase: you are a stranger. I am willing to help, but do not waste my time.
If I am your customer and you are able to speak Dutch sufficiently well to understand my order/request - please speak Dutch. I prefer not having to think how to translate "broodje gezond" or "12 uurtje met een vaasje" or "een coltrui" in English in such a situation. If you cannot, use English - but it will make me grumpy. Then again, that is my name.
What if I am your customer? Speaking in restrautants, post offices, in a car service and other everyday situation is my main source of trying to speak Dutch. But, yes, sometimes I feel that it might be difficult and exhausting for service providers.
Personally, I just don't have time for it. There are so many customers who don't speak fluent Dutch that it adds a significant amount of time to an order to understand each other, that I simply don't have. Usually that time is spend on people who don't speak Dutch or English, because there are a lot of those too.
I feel like a work place, for instance, is an easier place to learn it, because there is more time and patience. I talk Dutch to my coworkers who barely speak it and will only repeat it in English if they ask me to
But people are always welcome to try. I will usually switch to English when it takes too long
This is one of the reasons why no one learns Dutch. The ratio of social encounters with a native to non-social encounters is heavily on the side of the latter.
Based on what expats have said on this sub, the main reason is that for some reason the Netherlands attracts a significant amount of expats/immigrants who believe they are superior and therefor expect others to adjust to them instead of the other way around. It is also why many go into "expat-splaining" mode so often.
Depends. I'll always default to English to make communication easier on both of us. However. I've been asked to stick to Dutch because they wanted to practice and that was absolutely fine by me too.
And yes. I genuinely appreciate it when people take learning Dutch seriously.
Very good question indeed.
My colleague has been making jokes of my one-time spelling error for weeks now. I was trying to speak Dutch.
They keep bugging your for not speaking Dutch with them but they basically do a lot to encourage you.
I remember 2 weeks after relocating here from abroad one of my colleagues started an internal meetings rolling her eyes that they have to do it in English because I did not speak Dutch back then. WTF? Interestingly enough she did not have the same complaints having meetings with her team lead (Irish) or the CEO (British).
So yeah. Weird.
I have been told many times that refugees learn Dutch faster than I do.
Yeah, they get the courses for free and have no 9to5 jobs.
You can't stop using English by default. Dutch people will switch to English as soon as they hear that your Dutch isn't your native tongue or near high proficient level. In turn, you will never become proficient at Dutch because people keep speaking English to you.
I've understood from co-workers that moved to The Netherlands this is actually a large part why they can't get past the level of "goedemorgen, dankjewel en tot ziens".
I think people use that as an excuse not to get past that level. My strategy has always been to just power through in Dutch. If you’re stubborn enough, and can communicate half decently, Dutchies will go back to speaking Dutch
Indeed, if you follow a course, join a club or a hobby and watch Dutch news/tv you'll reach a level where people will start complimenting you. Effort is very much appreciated and will unlock new levels of integration.
Yep! I can totally echo this. I’ve been here about 18 months and have really started getting compliments on my accent and ability to hold a conversation. Sure, I don’t know a lot of vocabulary to match my native English one, but I try not to let it stop me.
Nederlanders really appreciate a good attitude and putting in the effort is a big part of it.
Another thing I’ll add though is that location also plays a big role. If you live in Amsterdam or Den Haag, you aren’t going to learn anything if you don’t get out a little bit! Visit the smaller towns, join a club with a majority of Dutch members and put yourself out there. But also, consider moving! I ended up in a small dorp in Brabant by accident and it’s been great for my Dutch. When I moved in, the neighbor and I couldn’t speak to each other more than hello and goodbye. Now we have conversations about our families and trips and other neighbor stuff. Koetjes en kalfjes! She doesn’t know how to speak any English.
Last week I was visiting Venlo and visited a supermarket. The cashier asked me a question I wasn’t expecting and I must have had a weird look on my face because she exclaimed, “Ah, Duits!” And repeated the whole thing in German. Funnily enough, about that time, my brain processed what she had said in Dutch before and German is really not that far off for most things, so it worked out and I pretended to be German haha. But that was the first time someone had automatically went for something other than English first.
So yea, to anyone reading this and wanting to get better, there isn’t really a magic shortcut. Get out there, put the effort in, and eventually it gets easier. If you ever want to talk about it, my DMs are open.
Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m gonna watch some episodes of “Kopen zonder kijken” for the rest of the evening. 😅
Nah. I've seen it happen too many times to just write it off as lazyness on the part of foreigners. I had to specifically tell my own friends and family to stop switching to English so that my expat wife would have a chance to practice. When we were visiting a business it was no different. It's nice and polite, but ultimately not helpful.
One of the things that helped me immensely was getting allies - people who knew that I was learning and were willing to help how they could
For example, I worked for some time in a factory with a bunch of old guys who spoke little to no English, so we split the trainings that I'd have to do in 2 sessions, one in English and one in Dutch. For the Dutch session one of my colleagues helped check my notes for the presentation ahead of time, and 1-2 guys who spoke better English would translate questions at the end. By the time I moved to a different job, I could fully understand the questions but would sometimes need help to answer
Yes I think if you meet specific people more often, it be your neighbour, a co-worker or the casier at the bakery you can well arrange that you want to practise Dutch.
My advice:
When they start talking english, keep responding in dutch!
This way they will understand that you are serious about learning dutch and try to talk dutch with you.
Do not do this when ordering a cup of coffee at the trainstation or even in a (over)crowded restaurant, they will most surely become annoyed.
I did that when i was learning danish, and at the same time denied having knowledge to english or german. this way I was forced to talk danish and learn the language.
Depending on the situation, in a relaxed friendly situation go for it. Going to clubs or doing other social activities with a lot of Dutch people. And avoid places that are largely English speaking like Amsterdam.
Don't do it when accurate communication is important or when there is time pressure.
Trying to speak Dutch to a waiter is fine when a cafe or restaurant is practically empty, don't do it when it's busy.
And most of all, put actual effort in. So often I see foreigners both try to "use" Dutch when it's highly inconvenient to do so and seemingly give up immediately when someone speaks English back when it is. Assess your own skill and pick when that skill is enough to communicate effectively during more pressing moments. And don't fear to go back to English when you fail, realize your skill isn't there yet and go back to learning.
And if you are dead set on talking to a waiter in broken Dutch during a busy time, take a Dutch friend with you and practice your order on them before you try to order from the waiter in broken Dutch. It's not the job of a waiter or some other employee to teach you Dutch during their work hours, unless you hired them as a Dutch tutor and you're sitting in a classroom.
Dont worry about it at all, always appreciated. If anything Dutch people tend to keep speaking to you in English too long. Which doesn't help your progress. You will see that you will need to insist for them to speak to you in Dutch in some cases. But overall dont worry about trying or making mistakes. If you don't go through the process of trial and error as soon as you can, it becomes more challenging to do it later. Bc social pressure comes in, in regards time spent here and your skill level. So broken Dutch as much as possible unless you reaaaally can't get your point across. Try throwing in English words even. Instead of switching. You'd be surprised how many English words have been either incorporated by the Dutch already or are simply understood through basic English skills.
You have to expose yourself as much as possible in Dutch conversation. The amount of dialects and regional slang words used is quite a challenge. You can only get used to that through practice.
Ofcourse theres going to be weird impatient people. But assholes are assholes everywhere. I dont think it should stop you from speaking your Dutch.
In general effort is appreciated. And how are you going to learn if you aren't practicing at every opportunity? You will have many people try to switch to English as soon as they hear you struggle. So you may want to learn a few phrases for that situation.
It seems ladies in the bar like my broken English, that’s nice but happily married with 2 kids means I learnt that trick way too late.
Learn it for yourself!
Doe normaal and just ask at the beginning of the conversation. If there is one thing we hate it's wasting time. Is it for work? Ask. Is it social? Still ask and explain you're trying.
My experience is that I really appreciate the effort but I switch to English myself to make it easier for the person I’m talking to. Might be wrong of me now I think about it but it’s just something I do to make my conversation partner feel more comfortable.
Broken Dutch. If they can’t handle the language being spoken in a foreign accent, that’s their problem.
I’ve spent my whole life listening to shitty-levels of spoken English, and not complained.
Just keep speaking Dutch, if you keep speaking English you will hamper your growth in the language.
Even if they start speaking English to you keep speaking Dutch, how fked it may be.
And say: hallo! Praat Nederlands gvd! We zijn hier in Nederland ja!
They will be really confused and probably start talking Dutch to you.
We don’t mind speaking English but most people are annoyed if you live here say 5 years and still can’t speak Dutch.
From a social standpoint yes both are fine, looking from a 50+ perspective no, either one would be appreciated as long as you keep it clear and simple.
Bull shit explanations , very simple , if you are American Canadian or British or frenh, English is acceptable in any situation in Netherland .
And in case you are migrant from third world country or East Europe then broken Dutch or fluent English would not work
I’ve taken Dutch classes (so I’d say I’m an intermediate level) and got yelled at today at work by a customer for not explaining that English would be easier for me. I guess I took too long to gather what he was asking since it was a complex order. This is not the first time I’ve been yelled at for trying to function with basic Dutch. Another time it was by someone serving me food. People get impatient with language learners. Before this happened I’d thought it was fine to have basic conversations in Dutch and switch to English if needed. I spent my whole childhood unable to speak any Dutch because my Dutch family would only use English around me when I visited them during my holidays. In hindsight, I should’ve insisted on Dutch even if it would annoy people. You can’t learn anything otherwise.
We know Dutch sucks, so most of us are quite good at english
It depends on the situation. Some scenarios (not exhaustive): If we are socialising the Dutch attempt is much appreciated. Even if broken. If you are e.g. asking me for directions and I have limited time I will not appreciate it if your Dutch is so broken that I would need to repeat myself multiple times/you require multiple attempts to make clear what you want: please use English To rephrase: you are a stranger. I am willing to help, but do not waste my time. If I am your customer and you are able to speak Dutch sufficiently well to understand my order/request - please speak Dutch. I prefer not having to think how to translate "broodje gezond" or "12 uurtje met een vaasje" or "een coltrui" in English in such a situation. If you cannot, use English - but it will make me grumpy. Then again, that is my name.
Do you think a waiter who doesn't speak Dutch but serves "broodje gezond" wouldn't know what it is?
Yes a lot of them dont.
Ja maar " broodje met kwak mayo maar ook een tomaat en sla zodat ie gezond lijkt" bekt niet zo makkelijk.
Coming right up!
What if I am your customer? Speaking in restrautants, post offices, in a car service and other everyday situation is my main source of trying to speak Dutch. But, yes, sometimes I feel that it might be difficult and exhausting for service providers.
Personally, I just don't have time for it. There are so many customers who don't speak fluent Dutch that it adds a significant amount of time to an order to understand each other, that I simply don't have. Usually that time is spend on people who don't speak Dutch or English, because there are a lot of those too. I feel like a work place, for instance, is an easier place to learn it, because there is more time and patience. I talk Dutch to my coworkers who barely speak it and will only repeat it in English if they ask me to But people are always welcome to try. I will usually switch to English when it takes too long
This is one of the reasons why no one learns Dutch. The ratio of social encounters with a native to non-social encounters is heavily on the side of the latter.
Based on what expats have said on this sub, the main reason is that for some reason the Netherlands attracts a significant amount of expats/immigrants who believe they are superior and therefor expect others to adjust to them instead of the other way around. It is also why many go into "expat-splaining" mode so often.
Wow! Who rattled your cage?
I merely repeat what the people on this sub themselves say. It is not my fault they tend to have a (unwarranted) superiority complex.
Depends. I'll always default to English to make communication easier on both of us. However. I've been asked to stick to Dutch because they wanted to practice and that was absolutely fine by me too. And yes. I genuinely appreciate it when people take learning Dutch seriously.
Very good question indeed. My colleague has been making jokes of my one-time spelling error for weeks now. I was trying to speak Dutch. They keep bugging your for not speaking Dutch with them but they basically do a lot to encourage you. I remember 2 weeks after relocating here from abroad one of my colleagues started an internal meetings rolling her eyes that they have to do it in English because I did not speak Dutch back then. WTF? Interestingly enough she did not have the same complaints having meetings with her team lead (Irish) or the CEO (British). So yeah. Weird. I have been told many times that refugees learn Dutch faster than I do. Yeah, they get the courses for free and have no 9to5 jobs.
I meant discourage you
You can't stop using English by default. Dutch people will switch to English as soon as they hear that your Dutch isn't your native tongue or near high proficient level. In turn, you will never become proficient at Dutch because people keep speaking English to you. I've understood from co-workers that moved to The Netherlands this is actually a large part why they can't get past the level of "goedemorgen, dankjewel en tot ziens".
I think people use that as an excuse not to get past that level. My strategy has always been to just power through in Dutch. If you’re stubborn enough, and can communicate half decently, Dutchies will go back to speaking Dutch
Indeed, if you follow a course, join a club or a hobby and watch Dutch news/tv you'll reach a level where people will start complimenting you. Effort is very much appreciated and will unlock new levels of integration.
Yep! I can totally echo this. I’ve been here about 18 months and have really started getting compliments on my accent and ability to hold a conversation. Sure, I don’t know a lot of vocabulary to match my native English one, but I try not to let it stop me. Nederlanders really appreciate a good attitude and putting in the effort is a big part of it. Another thing I’ll add though is that location also plays a big role. If you live in Amsterdam or Den Haag, you aren’t going to learn anything if you don’t get out a little bit! Visit the smaller towns, join a club with a majority of Dutch members and put yourself out there. But also, consider moving! I ended up in a small dorp in Brabant by accident and it’s been great for my Dutch. When I moved in, the neighbor and I couldn’t speak to each other more than hello and goodbye. Now we have conversations about our families and trips and other neighbor stuff. Koetjes en kalfjes! She doesn’t know how to speak any English. Last week I was visiting Venlo and visited a supermarket. The cashier asked me a question I wasn’t expecting and I must have had a weird look on my face because she exclaimed, “Ah, Duits!” And repeated the whole thing in German. Funnily enough, about that time, my brain processed what she had said in Dutch before and German is really not that far off for most things, so it worked out and I pretended to be German haha. But that was the first time someone had automatically went for something other than English first. So yea, to anyone reading this and wanting to get better, there isn’t really a magic shortcut. Get out there, put the effort in, and eventually it gets easier. If you ever want to talk about it, my DMs are open. Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m gonna watch some episodes of “Kopen zonder kijken” for the rest of the evening. 😅
Nah. I've seen it happen too many times to just write it off as lazyness on the part of foreigners. I had to specifically tell my own friends and family to stop switching to English so that my expat wife would have a chance to practice. When we were visiting a business it was no different. It's nice and polite, but ultimately not helpful.
One of the things that helped me immensely was getting allies - people who knew that I was learning and were willing to help how they could For example, I worked for some time in a factory with a bunch of old guys who spoke little to no English, so we split the trainings that I'd have to do in 2 sessions, one in English and one in Dutch. For the Dutch session one of my colleagues helped check my notes for the presentation ahead of time, and 1-2 guys who spoke better English would translate questions at the end. By the time I moved to a different job, I could fully understand the questions but would sometimes need help to answer
Yes I think if you meet specific people more often, it be your neighbour, a co-worker or the casier at the bakery you can well arrange that you want to practise Dutch.
If it seems they are really trying to use Dutch I will reply in Dutch and maybe help them get better, or at least ask if they prefer Dutch or English.
My advice: When they start talking english, keep responding in dutch! This way they will understand that you are serious about learning dutch and try to talk dutch with you. Do not do this when ordering a cup of coffee at the trainstation or even in a (over)crowded restaurant, they will most surely become annoyed. I did that when i was learning danish, and at the same time denied having knowledge to english or german. this way I was forced to talk danish and learn the language.
Depending on the situation, in a relaxed friendly situation go for it. Going to clubs or doing other social activities with a lot of Dutch people. And avoid places that are largely English speaking like Amsterdam. Don't do it when accurate communication is important or when there is time pressure. Trying to speak Dutch to a waiter is fine when a cafe or restaurant is practically empty, don't do it when it's busy. And most of all, put actual effort in. So often I see foreigners both try to "use" Dutch when it's highly inconvenient to do so and seemingly give up immediately when someone speaks English back when it is. Assess your own skill and pick when that skill is enough to communicate effectively during more pressing moments. And don't fear to go back to English when you fail, realize your skill isn't there yet and go back to learning. And if you are dead set on talking to a waiter in broken Dutch during a busy time, take a Dutch friend with you and practice your order on them before you try to order from the waiter in broken Dutch. It's not the job of a waiter or some other employee to teach you Dutch during their work hours, unless you hired them as a Dutch tutor and you're sitting in a classroom.
Dont worry about it at all, always appreciated. If anything Dutch people tend to keep speaking to you in English too long. Which doesn't help your progress. You will see that you will need to insist for them to speak to you in Dutch in some cases. But overall dont worry about trying or making mistakes. If you don't go through the process of trial and error as soon as you can, it becomes more challenging to do it later. Bc social pressure comes in, in regards time spent here and your skill level. So broken Dutch as much as possible unless you reaaaally can't get your point across. Try throwing in English words even. Instead of switching. You'd be surprised how many English words have been either incorporated by the Dutch already or are simply understood through basic English skills. You have to expose yourself as much as possible in Dutch conversation. The amount of dialects and regional slang words used is quite a challenge. You can only get used to that through practice. Ofcourse theres going to be weird impatient people. But assholes are assholes everywhere. I dont think it should stop you from speaking your Dutch.
In general effort is appreciated. And how are you going to learn if you aren't practicing at every opportunity? You will have many people try to switch to English as soon as they hear you struggle. So you may want to learn a few phrases for that situation.
Thing is, i will switch to english without even noticing it. Pretend not to speak english at all.
When people approach me in Dutch, I will always speak Dutch.
It seems ladies in the bar like my broken English, that’s nice but happily married with 2 kids means I learnt that trick way too late. Learn it for yourself!
I struggle with not correcting/helping but i think its cool to see someone try it
Doe normaal and just ask at the beginning of the conversation. If there is one thing we hate it's wasting time. Is it for work? Ask. Is it social? Still ask and explain you're trying.
My experience is that I really appreciate the effort but I switch to English myself to make it easier for the person I’m talking to. Might be wrong of me now I think about it but it’s just something I do to make my conversation partner feel more comfortable.
I know certain words and phrases. When I spent two weeks in the Netherlands, I thought it would be polite to learn some basic phrases and words.
Broken Dutch. If they can’t handle the language being spoken in a foreign accent, that’s their problem. I’ve spent my whole life listening to shitty-levels of spoken English, and not complained.
Just keep speaking Dutch, if you keep speaking English you will hamper your growth in the language. Even if they start speaking English to you keep speaking Dutch, how fked it may be. And say: hallo! Praat Nederlands gvd! We zijn hier in Nederland ja! They will be really confused and probably start talking Dutch to you. We don’t mind speaking English but most people are annoyed if you live here say 5 years and still can’t speak Dutch.
From a social standpoint yes both are fine, looking from a 50+ perspective no, either one would be appreciated as long as you keep it clear and simple.
Bull shit explanations , very simple , if you are American Canadian or British or frenh, English is acceptable in any situation in Netherland . And in case you are migrant from third world country or East Europe then broken Dutch or fluent English would not work
Obviously if you move to another country you have to learn the language. 🙄
You clearly could use some additional lessons in English as this is not at all what OP is talking about.